Manufacturing Leaders

Valda Goodfellow: Leading The Way for the Next Generation of Manufacturing Entrepreneurs

• Mark Bracknall • Season 10 • Episode 9

Share episode

Send us a text

Valda Goodfellow the co-owner of Goodfellow and Goodfellow, was this weeks guest on the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast. 

Valda had a dream from the age of 8 years old of building a UK manufacturing factory. She shares her bold journey of grit, vision, and fearless leadership.

🏭 Obsessed with the magic of making
 🚫 Calls out the risks of remote work
 🤝 Champions collaboration over competition
 💼 Sold her company but far from slowing down
 💬 “If you really want it—go for it. That opportunity may not come again.”

Manufacturing Leaders Podcast is now available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts & YouTube.

#ManufacturingLeaders #WomenInManufacturing #Leadership #UKManufacturing #NoMissedOpportunities




Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to an episode of the Manufacturer's Leaves podcast with me Mark Bracknell, the Marketing Director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we welcomed on Valda Goodfellow, the founder and Marketing Director of Goodfellow and Goodfellow, based in Peterloo. What an episode this was. Valda is an absolute inspiration and sometimes I have to sit here and reflect after an episode and I feel incredibly lucky to be part of this podcast and to meet people who inspire me, and Valda is the epitome that. I feel absolute privilege to be part of this episode today because I've learned so much and I can't wait to get back to my desk and work extremely hard and hopefully achieve a tiny percentage of what Valda has achieved in her career. Someone who has had a fantastic career in this industry, someone who wanted to work in this industry at just eight years old after watching a television program that in itself a tremendous story. So a perfect person to learn from and pick her brains in terms of the lessons that she's learned along the way. And that's exactly what we do. We talk about the importance of entrepreneurship and how we need to make sure that the new generation of entrepreneurs are coming through, and what businesses can do, what parents can do, to really encourage that and make sure it happens.

Speaker 1:

We talk in depth about manufacturing. Valda is passionate about this industry and what makes this industry great. We talk about the opportunities. We talk about the challenges and the difficult times through COVID and leading teams through tricky scenarios. At times, we get a little bit controversial in debates like work from home. We have very strong opinions about things like this and we aren't scared to share them.

Speaker 1:

So you're going to learn a little bit about this, but this is an episode for entrepreneurs, business owners, leaders, managers, people who are passionate about manufacturing, people who want to inspire other people to be passionate about manufacturing and, as I say, an episode that I just feel incredibly proud to be part of, because, for me, this podcast hopefully helps to do exactly what we talked about in this episode, which is help people collaborate and be more aware of how fantastic this industry is. So thank you, valda, so much for being part of this show. I really appreciate it. Please sit back, listen, enjoy the episode. Please just click that like and subscribe button. As I say, it really helps me grow the show. Thank you very much. Hope you enjoy the episode. Perfect. A massive warm welcome today to Valda Goodfellow, the MD and owner of Goodfellow and Goodfellow. I got it right, so it was Valda. How are you, valda.

Speaker 2:

You all right, I'm very well, thank you, I'm very well, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Really looking forward to this one. I love getting entrepreneurs on and talking through the journey, so I'm really looking forward to doing that. But before we do the first question, I tend to ask everyone that comes on the show what does it mean to you to be a leader, would you say?

Speaker 2:

I think it's the best thing in the world. You know, I feel as if I was born to do the job that I do and because I'm quite strong-willed, I can't really imagine following anybody, if that makes sense, and I know that sounds. It sounds wrong to say it or admit to it. It sounds wrong to say it or admit to it, but at my age I can admit to the things that you know. Other people, other younger people, might not be so inclined to do so. I really like leading. I don't like following.

Speaker 1:

Is it for you? The freedom then would you say, Is that the best part of the job? The freedom to make decisions and move how you want to move? To some extent, yes, it is.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I I think because I've always thought outside the box I'm much more suited to being an entrepreneur than I am being somebody's ideal employee. So I think that thinking outside the box, if you're not leading, frustrates people if they're within a structure. So I think that it's the freedom to do what you think is right. You don't always get it right, but I think that if you are committed to something, then you try to make the best decisions that you can with what you know, but it's having the freedom to act on it yeah, I completely agree, I really agree.

Speaker 1:

Obviously you've had I mean, you've had good fellow, good fellow now for over 13 years but obviously it wasn't your your first venture. You are an entrepreneur, you know, it did for me and there's sometimes difference between a business owner, an entrepreneur I think that's a slightly different mindset and an entrepreneur is someone who, who just wants to carry on that growth mindset and build, and grow, and build and grow, and that's very much you, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

yes, it is. Yeah, I think from being very young I always looked at what, what angle I could create something from, and even from being sort of like eight, nine, 10 years old, it was well, I could go out and sell something. You know, if I create this, I can go out and sell it. So I think the mindset has always been do something for yourself. I mean, I didn didn't, I wasn't an entrepreneur from the age of, you know, leaving school. That came later, um, but that, that sort of internal desire, it's sort of that's what's driven me do you have you ever sat and thought about where that comes from?

Speaker 1:

Is that? Is that someone inspires you? Is it? Is it experiences? What do you think it is?

Speaker 2:

Well, it certainly wasn't my father, because he was an artist and artists make the worst entrepreneurs. So it wasn't him. But he did inspire me to succeed because he said he taught. He told me when I was very young, Balder, the world's changing and you know, obviously I'm female, so being in the world of manufacturing when I was young was very unusual. But he said the days are gone when women should rely on men for a career or a livelihood or or even just to be kept at home like a housewife. He said you've got to do this for yourself. And that really struck a chord with me.

Speaker 2:

But along my career there have been people who have inspired me for definite. Probably. The first one was Sir John Harvey Jones, Way back, if anybody out there remembers a program called the Troubleshooter, and obviously Sir John Harvey Jones was ICI in effect, so has a strong link with this region, ICI in effect, so has a strong link with this region. But from seeing those programs when I was young it was like manufacturing is all I want to be in my. My great dream was to run a factory at eight, nine year old. That was pretty unusual for a female in the northeast.

Speaker 1:

But there you go but it also shows the power, doesn't't it? How important it is. Actually, when you are that age, you are probably more impressionable and open to you know suggesting, than you are later. So just for me, how much is the importance of giving school kids the awareness of the opportunities, because otherwise you just don't know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, massively. I mean, when I went to school, this region was all about. You know, if you went for a job, you went to work in a factory, you know. And for women the opportunities were typists. They were working as admin teachers. You know there weren't that many opportunities, teachers, you know, there weren't that many opportunities. So a big part of what I believe in now is you've got to teach children when they're young that being an entrepreneur, you know, being master of your own destiny, is something that should be an option for you, not something you stumble across in later life if you're lucky.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how do you think the schools can do that? Because I do quite a bit of work with some local schools and UTCs and my issue with the traditional school system now it hasn't really changed that much, but it is pretty much trying to get people to pass exams, not necessarily get them work ready.

Speaker 1:

You know there's not enough entrepreneurs coming through now, and you know I don't think you know, unless something changes, I can't see that changing. What do we do as a, what do businesses do or parents do to start trying to change that, in your opinion?

Speaker 2:

I think everything has to start with parents, and if society has to change in any way, it's that parents have to take more responsibility and not leave it to schools to do everything. Because the school system is there for a mass. It's there to sort of put people in big numbers through a process and they try to do the best they can, but it's not really geared to what we need in the future, unless you're going to use what you learn at school as a subject once you get past basic maths and English and all of that. I mean, I can't remember hardly anything I learned from all level chemistry or physics or anything like that. I can recite a few words of Latin, but none of that academic knowledge has really come in for anything better than a pub quiz. So you know, it's not what we need to live for the future and I think at this stage our, our working uk is at a tipping point and we have to realize that the challenges are global.

Speaker 1:

they're not on our doorstep yeah, 100, and I think what's important I I think is that you've not got to look far to see people like yourself in the region, some brilliant entrepreneurs and business owners. I think people got to realize that you, you might have the, you might be born with a certain mindset, but you're not, you're not given an opportunity to lead a business. You start from the start and you know how many companies in this region have owners who started right from the bottom. You know you have to work your way through and you know you're not given opportunities, because that's a big piece, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I think we have a history of family companies. Yeah, they've been passed down to generations, and that's a very different style to me, because I wasn't. You know, my family were quite poor. We lived on a council estate quite a rough council estate, you know and it was dog eat dog much as life is now.

Speaker 2:

So anything you were going to achieve had to be done yourself and it's sort of you set out. Even if you set out in one direction, there can be some pretty big bumps in the road, and what an entrepreneur does, if they're a born entrepreneur, is go well, that was a bump. That's not going to stop me. I might have to go around the bump or I might have to rethink it, but you have to learn to adapt and that's what good businesses do they adapt to what faces them. So I think that it's understanding that it isn't going to be a straight path and even if you do start off at the bottom, there's no God given right that you're going to end up at the top If you stay there long enough. You have to earn that position and take opportunities when they come along 100%.

Speaker 1:

What was it like for you when you first got into manufacturing? Because you mentioned, you know, an early age. You saw that and you thought this is me. Sometimes you meet heroes and it's all you think it'd be. But what was that like when you first and what was the evolution like of sort of at work in the industry?

Speaker 2:

I would like to say it was amazing. My true experience was it was brutal. My first job was as a production control trainee in a television factory in Bishop Auckland and I think a lot of people think about manufacturing workplaces as being full of men. This was full of women on production lines because a lot of the work was quite nimble. This was when PCB boards and things you know, there was even valves involved not long before I joined. So it's quite intricate work which was suited more to women. But those women, god, they did toughen me up. It nearly broke me as coming from not a sheltered background, but I hadn't experienced that sort of female. Almost it was like a gang. You know it was pretty brutal and you either sank or you swam and I can't imagine that many workplaces now being as brutal as it was then and you tend to think that it's going into a male dominated workforce. That's going to be difficult. But women are far worse. I can tell you that did you?

Speaker 1:

when? Was it for you that you wanted to? Because I think there's one thing owning a business and leading a business there's another thing entirely in terms of leading people, and that, that leadership piece, yeah, did you always want both of those? Or did you see leading people as an entry into ultimately owning a business, would you say?

Speaker 2:

My dream was very short to run a factory, because there is something magical about making things. I don't care whether it's PCB boards, whether it was, as I ended up doing, running a sausage factory. Whatever you make, whether it's craft-based, whether it's mass-produced, whether it's job-produced, there is something magical about people coming together with a process and making something that wasn't there before. That just seemed like magic to me, and I couldn't imagine wanting to do anything else and then running a factory. I could never see myself as anything other than wanting to be at the top of that. Because I wanted to, I think I wanted to make a difference. I wanted to either create something for myself or be able to drive something forward, and you can only do that if you lead it 100%.

Speaker 1:

Have you seen your leadership and management style change and evolve over the years? Because I guess in society it has, because generations have changed and people have changed. So what's that been like, that transition?

Speaker 2:

I think when I eventually got my dream and started to run a factory, I was thrown in at the deep end and, to be honest, I winged it. I'll admit that I winged it and then, as I got into running my own businesses in very tough circumstances because I had to do a turnaround situation my management style was probably more like Attila the Hun, and then I've mellowed as I've got older and realized that you've got. There are different styles, I think, that suit different situations and I don't think there is one management style unless you are one of these people and I'm not that can just lead sheerly through personality. Sometimes it takes more than that and I've seen other people in action that lead through personality and people just follow them and they're lucky if they can do that. More often than not, leadership is tougher than that and those that are not born like that have to work harder at doing it. But there isn't one style that suits the skills that are needed at exactly the same stage of every business.

Speaker 1:

I think that changes with your leadership style yeah, that's a really good point because I think a lot of people listening will will worry sometimes that they aren't that natural extrovert leader who, everything you know, you get. Those people don't you just seem to do?

Speaker 2:

I wasn't, yeah, I wasn't a natural leader that people wanted to follow, and therefore you have to work harder at it, but it is possible because you know sometimes you're in that position and you have to do it. I doesn't mean to say that everybody's successful at it, though.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, I'm going to say it, but I think it's a really interesting point. Can you pinpoint? I guess, if you were to, it's the age-old question, but if you were to give yourself knowing what you know now, if you could go and talk to you when you start out being a leader, because there'll be people listening who are just starting to lead.

Speaker 2:

Now, what advice do you think you'd given yourself, knowing what you know now? Have confidence in what decisions you make and not be as afraid of what people are going to think of you making those decisions. I think there's a lot of confidence that has to go along with good leadership, because I know from my own businesses that if you're confident, people are more confident in what you're saying. If you're not confident in what you're saying and you're not confident in what you're saying and you're not committed, then you shouldn't be doing it. Um, but I would say to myself don't be as afraid of getting a few things wrong as well. Just don't be so tough on yourself. You know I would. I would have had a lot easier ride if I hadn't been as tough on myself it's such a lonely gig, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

it is lonely, it can be very lonely, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I don't think people realize that until until the video. I mean, I, I and I also don't think I doubt there's many leaders out there and go I've cracked it, I've got it because it's all you've always you've mentioned winging it. I think you always feel like you're winging it, and then there's the situations where you suddenly go actually I don't feel as nervous doing that, I'm more confident and that's not like it. Just that evolves itself, doesn't it?

Speaker 2:

Experience gives you more confidence to make those decisions and it feels less like winging it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But if you're thrown in at the deep end and you know if you're asked, cometh the hour, cometh the man or woman, and you're the one that has to do it. You know you've got to do it with some conviction. And don't be afraid that if you're there to make the best decision that you can because that's all anybody can do Hindsight's a great thing, you know. We can all look back and go, oh, yes, yes, but you should have done this and you should have done that. Yeah, but you weren't there at the time and if you had, and given me that advice, I would have listened to it. When you're there on your own, and I think it's fear, fear when fear grips you. And there have been some times, you know, particularly when you own the business, because it's not just the decisions that you're making for other people, it's decisions, particularly when times are financially tight, that that fear can grip you and it can undermine the confidence that you need to make the best decisions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that is, I think again, people underestimate that side to it. I mean, funnily enough, it's for five years, isn't it so, than covid now yes, it was last week and I was almost reflecting.

Speaker 1:

You know, covid ended up being being okay for us because you know, we had a lot of key worker state at this time manufacturing, but key worker wasn't even a word. We heard of this time five years ago and when that hit that fear. It's one thing if you you know it's scary. If you work for a business and obviously you know you're not, you could be made redundant and all that and that's terrible. It's a different sort of fear when you are responsible for other people and the decisions you make will have a direct impact on them and their families. And that's tough, isn't it, when you, when you, have that level of responsibility yeah, it is.

Speaker 2:

And you know we've all been through times where we probably had to let people go that we didn't want to let go. Thankfully I came, I kept 90 odd percent of my workforce together, but I had to let people go that we didn't want to let go. Thankfully, I kept 90-odd percent of my workforce together, but I had to let a couple of people go and you know I was devastated and I was quite tearful about it because it was on top of that situation where we were all scared anyway. Yeah, but to add to that as well, but sadly there was nothing I could do. I had to protect the 90% and by protecting the 90% we came back quicker and more prepared than if we'd sort of. I know a lot of people let you know lots and lots of workforce go. Starting again with new workforce was always going to be a huge challenge. So the fight was to keep as many people that had the expertise, because I had no doubt we would come back strong.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how have you managed your own mindset through difficult times? Because I think people have this thought process the leaders make decision, they go home and then the reality is you take it with you.

Speaker 2:

oh, you take it home with you yeah, you know we call good fellow and good fellow because, um, my husband and I started this business, so there are two good fellows, so we can't avoid it. We take it home. Both of us take it home. But I'm a worrier so I sort of probably manage on paranoia. So if I can think of the worst thing that can possibly happen and I know I've got a plan for it then I can probably get a night's sleep. If I can't, then I don't sleep at all and I will just think about it and think about it until I've got a plan yeah word is have a plan.

Speaker 1:

I mean I, you know, I'm exactly the same it it. It helps me process things if I understand what the worst-case scenario is and I have a plan for that worst-case scenario.

Speaker 2:

Yes, Even if you don't follow the plan to the letter. Having the plan means that you have a direction in which you can go and you can adapt the plan.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But if you don't have a plan, then I just don't know how people can work like that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's my apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialize in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ exec search arm of the business. Both on the contract and permit side, we offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for heart of full roles or a full partnership service where we become an extension of your business. For any information, please get in touch with me or the team. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thank you. Equivalent of the people who plan for the end of the world and have a have a plan for that. I don't quite have that, but it's that. It's my equivalent of the work exactly the same.

Speaker 2:

It's just I, I worry about everything. Yeah, if I, if I can get to the, the end of my worries and I've processed them all, then I know I've, I've thought everything through yeah, and even now I have something that I've got.

Speaker 1:

Who told me? But it does work for me. Whenever anything happens which is negative, I go to myself will it matter in six months time? Has anyone died? And if they're both for those who know, then yeah, I don't stress.

Speaker 2:

I know we sell to the hospitality industry and you know we sell tableware, design it. We work with all these top chefs who are quite volatile sometimes and they would ring up and their delivery hasn't arrived and they're screaming down the phone because they've got an event on and my, my sort of key phrase was to the staff said I used to say this is plates. Nobody died, you know, and it's until covid. And then you had to stop using that sort of that phrase because it wasn't appropriate. But sometimes that perspective how terrible is this challenge. And as you gain more confidence and experience, you you learn how to put the perspective into the challenges that face you yeah, 100 agree.

Speaker 1:

We've talked a lot about the challenges and overcoming. What are the good stuff for you? Why do you love doing what you do? Because you're obviously so passionate about it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I just love it. This isn't work to me. This is just when you feel like you're doing what you were born to do, and athletes must feel like that. I don't think people think that business people should feel like that, but I just love it and I think that. You know, I've thought a lot about how manufacturing has changed and I don't think I could run a factory that was totally automated, because there is something about the magic of people being in the process that makes it enjoyable, makes it a pain as well, because they're your biggest pleasure and they're your biggest headache, because if there's anything that's going to give you the biggest headaches, it's usually people, because you can't fit them into a process.

Speaker 2:

But it's that combination and even though we don't directly manufacture the majority of what we do, we actually do manufacture things that we've designed, but we don't make them here. We'll commission them. We work a lot directly with the manufacturers who produce for us, and it always makes me feel good walking into a factory. It doesn't matter whether they're doing glassware, ceramics, whether somebody's doing wood, it's just there is a feeling walking into a production process that's like no other, and that's what was my passion for so long, and now that I'm a little bit detached from it, I'm sort of I miss it. So I try to go into as many factories as I can just to get that buzz. But I think the buzz about being an entrepreneur is that you're making a mark on something you know, you're changing it, the people who you work with you are part of their lives and when it goes well and you've created some good in their lives, that is a great thing. Uh, you know, it's just I don't know.

Speaker 1:

It's just everything about it I love yeah, I completely share all that as well. The um, when I first started working in manufacturing recruitment I just didn't. I didn't think I would feel the way I felt when I worked. Walks in a factory and it is. It is magical. It doesn't matter what's being made, something's being made.

Speaker 1:

And it's funny when we recruit people here, because often it's a weird tradition don't take people from recruitment. We take people from different walks of life and I always ask them what's your knowledge, man? I said what is your knowledge about manufacturing? I said, absolutely fine if there's no. But what's your knowledge? And most, most time, they haven't got that much and I'll say how do you think this laptop was made? And they'll go oh well, probably all made. It was probably made in a factory. Well, it's probably made in about. And when I explain to them all the parts, the design, everything that you can see, people don't understand, appreciate the work that goes into making just a pen. You know it's. It's not just one factory makes, it's everything. So now I can when I walk around a factory. Now I agree with you, it's all I'm always like in between. I love factories full of people because it's, it's, it's, it's exciting. But I also love seeing technology, robot sort of motions. It's like a mix in between.

Speaker 2:

It's perfect yeah, it is and I am. I'm a real I'm. I'm for technology. You know part of my career. I used to install um mrp because I understood the process and I'm quite a logical thinker and I thought it was quite easy installing MRP systems and so technology has moved so much and is so beneficial. But for me the excitement is that mix of people and processes and all of the stories and all of the things that are good about people come out. I mean running. My favourite manufacturing job, I have to say, was running a sausage factory.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it was just the maddest environment and tough because people were in. You know it had to be below five degrees on the shop floor and it's very clinical and very, very clean and everything was done so well. But it the tougher the environment, I think the more camaraderie there is to get through it, because it's the people that get you through the tough situations. Um, there were some hairy moments as well, but it's the buzz of going in and just seeing everybody working towards a purpose.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's what makes entrepreneurship for me. I think it it is the people. I saw a quote the weekend. It said something like concentrate on making people successful and success will come to you. And I just it resonated with me because I just think, you know, I I would probably financially better off if I sat in my bedroom and did what I did myself, but it would bore the life out of me. Same as you know, like you say, walking a factory which is just full of machines. Where's the life? You know you need that interaction with people and it makes it harder, more challenging, but ultimately it makes it more rewarding, doesn't it? Because you've gone through it?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, it does, and I think that that part of it is underestimated by a lot of people, and I've always had this rule about being a boss that your door should always be open. Don't sit too far away from where the action is because you'll miss everything, and so I always sit in the middle of everything.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I couldn't in the sausage factory because it was you know, you had to be it had to be food safe, um, but I got as close as I could and went in every day, whereas I think the more senior Sunbossers become in an organisation, they lose the connection with the call face, if you like, and that is something that you should never do. You should always, every day, if you can, whenever you can be where the action is.

Speaker 1:

Completely agree, and I know the um. The remote working debate's been done to death. But and I can I can now probably settle the fact that I I appreciate. For some people remote working is great and some of those people are much more efficient. I think that's fine. Personally, my biggest nightmare it would be my. It would be a jail sentence for me to work by myself at home. I can do it for the odd afternoon and get me out of work down, but I need to be around people.

Speaker 2:

I think the working from home thing obviously is a huge topic and when we came back from COVID, I wouldn't let anybody work from home and I said if the warehouse people have to be here, we're all here. Because I think it's creating a two-tier workforce that divides us and I think in five years, 10 years' time, there'll be studies done on the impact of businesses and the mental health of people who think it's a good idea to work from home but have become a lot more isolated and unwell because there is a dynamism of people working together. Creativity comes from people working together. Creative creativity comes from people working together. Um, but I think that we're on a very dangerous path now for everybody with this proliferation of working from home I completely agree.

Speaker 1:

I know it's controversial but I agree. When I when I see studies being done and linkedin polls where you know what's the most important thing and and you've got 70% of people saying work from home, I just like it actually saddens me. It does and I know people will massively disagree because I appreciate there'd be certain people, but I just culture cannot be created at home. We just can't.

Speaker 2:

It can't and and I know the temptation is even personally oh, it's going to be so easy if I can work from home. It's harder because you have to be mentally 100% focused, not to be diverted, and I just think people will become isolated and there's nobody that can convince me that productivity goes up working from home in the long term.

Speaker 1:

In the long term it's like that you mentioned. It's the creativity piece you know, it's the collaboration, it's the, it's the the make a mistake and learning from other people left and right of you. That's how everyone learns and and I I agree I think people might think they're more productive now, but I think there'll be a massive gap in people really progressing because they don't know what good looks like. It's difficult.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and I think also it has a knock-on effect to our work ethic as well, which I know is controversial to talk about, but I do think it makes a big difference. I mean, there's some companies similar to us who let their customer services people work from home, and you know some of my customer services people. Staff at the start said, well, why can't we do what they do? Now they're telling me stories of or such and such. They think she's working and she's out doing this and she's out doing that. How can that be productive for a company? And it's not the worker's fault because that's what they've been allowed to slip into, but it can't be good for businesses and things.

Speaker 2:

if things aren't good for businesses, the businesses won't be there and if businesses won't be there, there won't be the jobs of any kind.

Speaker 1:

I think and the fear for me, this has all been driven by companies doing what they can do to find skills and thinking they have to flex and thinking they have to to bend over backwards to bring people in. It's a real difficult balance because there is a gap of good people, but ultimately you know if that there's a level of entitlement. Now that it's, it's dangerous because you know suddenly where's your workforce and where's the loyalty if you're not with them day to day.

Speaker 2:

And I think that that COVID, you know, we all think that the world's gone back to normal, but now we're just starting to understand the impact that COVID had on the mindset of business and the mindset of employees and we're going to suffer from those impacts for a long time to come. And I say suffer because I don't think any good has come out of those changes, because all of the wages were pushed up artificially high and companies had to flex just to get bums on seats or or people in the in the warehouses and factories and they did what they had to do. But we, we're all suffering now because of it yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 1:

Look, there'll be people who disagree with this, but that's fine, that's okay, that's their opinion, but and I have mine- yeah, and, and you're right, you know there's certain roles out there.

Speaker 1:

It's been a race to the bottom because people have having to compete and compete and compete and compete. And it's really challenging because it's difficult in our role because we have to consult on what they need to necessarily pay to compete with the competition. But sometimes it's uncomfortable conversations because I don't agree, it's just it is. We are where we are because of certain factors and that's the challenge.

Speaker 1:

It's it's challenging one. Obviously, manufacturing is, I think you mentioned right at the start. It's an interesting point right now where it's almost it's a? A. So there's some challenges there, but there's also some opportunity there. It's kind of on on the edge, I would say, and how it's competing against other nations, how do we capitalise and how do we change it for the better? Now, because it's on a bit of a knife edge, in my opinion, right now.

Speaker 2:

Manufacturing yeah, I think obviously we've got certain things against us, like costs, legislation, energy, energy costs, all of that um, as we've talked about staff as well, and we're all thinking that ai is going to solve all the problems and everything's going to be run by technology. But what do we then do with the people manufacturing? I think has there has to be almost a uk strategy, because there will be some businesses that will always survive, you know, because they have a niche product or because they have a niche application to to put into it. But I think that if we are to face the challenges of the future, the challenges are global. They're not on our doorstep and we can't face those challenges alone.

Speaker 2:

As often as a standalone company, we're either part of a global supply chain. Even though I don't manufacture a lot of the products, I bring those in from a global supply chain and quite often they go to a local market and we export. So the only bit that's missing is the process in the middle. But what we have to do is look at niche areas where the uk is very good and build up some clusters around that, because I think there needs to be momentum to keep manufacturing in the uk yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1:

Is that, um, because I guess there's a thought process that we need to wait for the government to give us things and that, for me, you'd be waiting for nothing.

Speaker 2:

Don't ever wait of any color or any persuasion. I think that um for businesses and and it's counterproductive because businesses are looking to gain an edge on others.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But now the UK isn't a big enough force. We're not world domineering. We still are in a couple of things, but largely we're not world domineering like we used to be a long, long time ago. So the only way we're going to work is collaborate, and we've got some of the best business minds in the world here.

Speaker 2:

I don't care what anybody says. You know, yes, there can be Harvard Business School trained people out there, but there are some amazing people in the UK and if some of them got together to produce a strategy for the UK on what take the best and let's build clusters around that, you know, like they are talking about in the new Silicon Valley in Cambridge, in the new Silicon Valley in Cambridge, the things that are coming out of universities are amazing. So why don't we build strategies around that and around some of the green energy where there's been a lot of groundwork already done? But I think we've got to pick our battles and pick our areas to be really good. I don't think a thin spread of little manufacturers working on their own is going to change the uk a lot yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 1:

I mean there's probably make uk are probably the closest, I would say, to a, an organization that's doing that. Um, but there needs to be. Either that you know that is the one, or there needs to be. Either that you know that is the one or there needs to be. You know everything's back that. But I completely agree it's. It's that collaboration, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

it is, and I think that it needs to encompass the great marketeers as well as just we're manufacturers. I've seen too many good manufacturing businesses fail because they weren't good marketeers.

Speaker 1:

great again without having the great marketeers that need to make those products be global successors. Yeah, I can't believe. I think, if you run a business now, you, you, you are an entrepreneur, you are a marketeer, you're, you are a recruitment firm. Everything isn't it, it's you're everything, you're everything.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah and I think that so many middle market businesses have gone to the wall, you know, either being acquired or closed. And we have some great craft businesses and then there are the bigger ones. It's, it's the, the smes in the middle, yeah, that always take the brunt of everything and they are the best people to get to say what does it take to make a great business? Because they have to do it all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and they can be agile. There's no red tape there. They can be a bit more competitive. On price it is. I completely agree. This country's manufacturing has been built on the whole economy's been built on SMEs. It has which is why I won't get too political. I'm not really a political man, but it pains me when SMEs are you know have to pay the brunt for certain tax because they literally keep this economy going they do and I don't think that any governments have actually realised the value of SMEs.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I have to say that you know I was involved in the original business links which were there to help SMEs. Yeah, sadly, I think a lot of it in the end went to help hairdressers and window cleaners and it lost its purpose in a way. But I think sma's lost confidence because I don't think governments are there, should be there, to do that job for businesses. I think it has to come out of businesses, um, and that's why I think that, yes, the government has a role to play, but the smes are the ones that keep britain going, I think 100.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't agree more. What's next for good phone? Good fellow, you know, being 13 years exactly, I say you'd like any business going long. You've weathered some serious storms and come out there, come out to exceed you. Well, you're obviously a company which cares about its people and cares about its culture. What's on the horizons for the next couple of years?

Speaker 2:

Well, we did sell our shares recently to a bigger. It's a French global conglomerate.

Speaker 1:

Amazing.

Speaker 2:

Because I'm 65, you know, and I've a limited shelf life. I do feel a bit like a dinosaur now, but I know that it's in good hands because it will end up. I've done the strategy for the next few years. I've moved us to bigger premises, I've got us fit for the future and I'll still be here. But I would like to invest in other businesses. I'd like to go back, because I did some time as consultancy as well and now that sort of the overall strategy, the strategy for the UK, is definitely in my hands and I've planned that out and I know it can be carried out. So it's to grow this business. But I feel as if I still have a hunger to help other businesses as well. So I would probably look to invest in other businesses and help with some expertise, if I can, while still guiding this business on its path to further growth.

Speaker 1:

Excellent and I really want to thank you.

Speaker 1:

This has been incredible.

Speaker 1:

It's been a real honor actually, and I don't say that lightly, in the sense that I guess I think about this stage of the episode what I've learned or inspired, and I think it's really inspired me because you're someone who sometimes I take owner business for granted, I think, and I think I just see it as a, you know, just job, but actually it's such a level of responsibility in such a positive way and sometimes and and an episode like this is really sort of sort of lit some fire in me, I guess, to go right, you know, this is the stuff to do here, this stuff to grow.

Speaker 1:

You know there's so much more we can, we can do and and to see someone at your stage of your career who is so passionate about, passionate about what you're, you do and still do, and I think I I've no doubt that every business you're going to be involved with will be such a positive experience, because you've still got that enthusiasm, that drive, and you've obviously learned so much from all the the years in industry. So I think this episode is going to be amazing for people to go to, to either go. I want to do something for me. You know what I'm awaiting for, because I think sometimes people think I'll wait till this age or I'll wait till I get this opportunity, where those opportunities have come to you.

Speaker 2:

Don't wait and I think that I mentioned opportunity earlier on, and some people either don't see the opportunity or they let it pass them by thinking another one's going to come along. Don't let an opportunity pass you by. If you really want that, do it, because that opportunity or another one may never come again. You know an opportunity has driven my life and you know it's gone in a few different directions, but I've loved every minute of it yeah, and it goes back to what we said about worst case scenario, doesn't it?

Speaker 1:

but when I started this business the weeks before, when I was thinking about doomsday, you know what's the worst. The worst is that it fails, and I'll learn. So I'll learn so much and, if I need to, I get a job, because I was in a job before. You know what. What is the risk?

Speaker 2:

I think I think also just picking up on something you said before that you know it's reawakened your passion about you know just there's more to do. I think that point of loneliness sometimes you just feel like, have I got to do this again today, at the start of a new financial year? It looks like that mountain's there to climb again and because it's quite a lonely position, you have to dig deep sometimes to get that passion back. To get that passion back. But I'll give you a tip the next time you feel like that, just think about you know doing something else for somebody else, where you weren't in control, because you take for granted what you've got and sometimes the loneliness just grinds you down. So just think what the other option would be and it'll reignite the fire.

Speaker 1:

I love that, and that is a lovely place to end a brilliant episode. So thank you, vaz, but it's been brilliant.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I've enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast. Please just like or subscribe. It really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team. I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums on seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help improve their lives and, ultimately, I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon.