Manufacturing Leaders

David Yodaiken: The Importance Of Communicating Your Vision In Manufacturing

• Mark Bracknall • Season 11 • Episode 4

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode, David Yodaiken shares the lessons learned on his path from working at the ground level in his father's electronics company to becoming CEO of Cyclops Electronics. David talks about the value of gaining outside experience before joining the family business, how trust and over-communication have shaped his leadership, and the importance of breaking unhelpful habits to improve organisational culture. He also explores how Cyclops is focusing on delivering more value to existing customers while expanding into new markets.

Key takeaways:

▪️Experience outside the family business shaped David’s leadership and perspective.

▪️Trust and clear communication are essential to building strong teams.

▪️Breaking poor habits is crucial for improving internal culture and processes.

▪️Cyclops Electronics is focused on adding value and exploring new growth opportunities.

Connect with us on Linked In - https://www.linkedin.com/company/10126589/admin/page-posts/published/

Like, Share and leave a Review - this really means the world to us!

Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. 
Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to an episode of the Manufacturing News Podcast with me Mark Bracknell, marketing Director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we welcome on David Udokin, the CEO of Cyclops Electronics. This was a fascinating episode where we really sort of dug into David's journey. Someone who was born into his family's business it was his dad's business Started out cleaning the floors at age 14. Essentially went away for a lot of years to learn his trade in different business environments, went down the university route, went down the practical route on the understanding for him to come back and use all the lessons he's learned to then become CEO of the business, and I absolutely loved all the lessons and takeaways that we discussed. One thing you will take away from this is I'm talking about how they become a business which keeps people employed there for so long. People have been there for decades, and he puts that down to communication how you communicate with your staff on a daily basis and how you communicate the vision on a daily basis, and this was a real key takeaway, along with many other leadership lessons and journeys we discuss along the way.

Speaker 1:

So look, you're going to really enjoy this episode with David, so please feel free to grab a coffee, watch, listen. Whatever you prefer to do, please, please, please, do the greatest honor of just clicking that like and subscribe and commenting and helping grow the show and get more guests, great guests like david. So thank you very much. I hope you enjoy the episode. Excellent, a massive, well welcome today to david yudakin, the ceo of cyclops electronics. How are david? You all right?

Speaker 2:

yeah, very well today, thanks, how are you doing?

Speaker 1:

yeah, really good after a nice bank holiday weekend. So, uh, so, yes, looking forward to uh, this episode, which obviously we'll dig into everything about Cyclops, your journey. But the first question is the same question I ask everyone, which is what does it mean to you to be a leader? It's a great question.

Speaker 2:

So, to me, being a leader in today's workplace is about it's a combination of being inspiring, being respectful and really being the person that you know people can trust and trust in yourself, and if you don't have that, I feel fundamentally can't lead um. You need to trust you're on the right journey, trust you're on the right path, and that message needs to go all the way through every facet of your business and um. So for me, it starts with trust, it starts with respect, starts with um inspiring leadership I like that.

Speaker 1:

I like that word trust, I guess, because, like I say you mentioned, it's both ways. You know they need to trust you, but actually that trust in yourself part that's interesting, isn't it? Because that's that's often. You often lead with phrases or suggestions or see orders, but sometimes you don't necessarily you're there yet trust your advice. Is that something you have had to work on to lead to really sort of trust yourself?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I think sometimes you and potentially your leadership team or your board, can set. You know where you think you're going and, um, over time, um, I've learned you, you have to trust in yourself that the path that you are setting out is the right path. You're, you're setting your stall out for the year, the next two to three year period, for example, and, um, you need to trust that vision, that journey and and then trust that you can, you know, deliver that message through your business and also externally. You know it's it's one thing getting your staff on board. You then have to learn how to communicate that message. But, um, yeah, that, that word trust for me is really fundamental. Um, think as well, something really key is about communication, in in trust, you know, I think it's often a little bit overlooked, um, the importance of almost over communicating until it's just a baseline in your business that people know exactly what's going on, where you're going in the journey yeah, it's such a hard balance, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

trying to get people the right enough information, but, like you say, sometimes you can overshare, which can lead to further questioning and further anxieties as such, and this is why management is so hard, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

because it's so multifaceted yeah, yeah, and especially now, um, you're looking at changes in generational workforces. You're talking about having up to five generations in a workforce. You know people are used to working this way, all the way through. People used to work in this way. The expectations are so different and how do you navigate that as a leader? You know you've got to have some sort of guiding principles.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would never say, but I think what I've seen is a real shift towards a change in leadership and management over the last of last 10 years. Really, I would say in particular and you know, I guess it gets back that trusting, doesn't it, and trusting yourself but actually been okay with making mistakes as well. You know, that's something that I struggled with when I first started out, I guess, really kicking myself to make mistakes. But I think people respect you for holding your hands up sometimes, don't they?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and I think that's the thing if your people can trust you'll be honest with them, then they feel better empowered to be honest with you. And I think we all need to get really comfortable in business that mistakes happen. It's it's kind of how you deal with it, how you solve problems that reflects on you know that next step, that next step after that, and that's the same with customers, the same with staff. It's it's kind of the same with everything. And again, you just build up those foundations of trusts with your teams and that communication piece is part of that and the honesty piece is fundamental.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100% Cyclops Electronics. For those who don't know about the business, david, can you give us just a very brief summary of what you do, where you're based, that type of thing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so Cyclops Electronics is the core business of the Cyclops Group. We are an electronic component distributor. We are one of the larger electronic component distributors in the UK and certainly Europe I'll just correct that one of the largest independently owned and family-run ones. Anyway, the business was started by my father in 1990, so it was only a couple of years before I was born and it started. It's the traditional entrepreneurial story started in his bedroom before the days of the internet, before the days of the yellow pages. It was I found a military base in need of a part and then knew someone in Europe who had the component he was looking for. And then this kind of revolution oh okay, I think this is a business here, we let's get going with it, type of thing.

Speaker 1:

And uh yeah, started parcels in the bedroom and now we have um, a team globally of around 100 people's, head office in york with about 60 odd staff and um, about five different divisions doing slightly different things, all within the electronic space I love hearing those entrepreneur stories of, like you say, people who just took, took a risk and just backed itself, trust themselves to have a go and see what happens, that you mentioned that word entrepreneur there and obviously you know the entrepreneurial spirit that he obviously saw a an issue, saw a you know gap, the market went for it. This is a family business, um, and you're, I guess, born into a family business, but it's still your choice to go down that path or not, do you? How similar do you think you are to your dad with that entrepreneurial piece, or do you have a different skill set, so to speak? Because it's quite subjective that entrepreneurial piece, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

yeah. So I I would say I'm probably a little bit more um. I've had a bit more of um, the kind of traditional education piece, I suppose. Um went off to uni, um, my father basically did a college uh course in business and then he kind of went off from there no university in my family otherwise.

Speaker 2:

And um, I kind of went the other route, went off off to uni, did undergrads, then did a postgrad at the business school at the University of Leeds and then I've gone on to do an MBA. So I've gone down a little bit more of that traditionalist well now maybe what's traditionalist route of education as well. And then for me I've always really enjoyed working in the family business from a sense of kind of wider experience, but then thought, well, what else could I do to kind of widen that knowledge for myself personally? And part of learning to trust myself was about going off and getting other experience. And I think with that foundation of other experience I've been able to bring that back to my family business and have a much more centered approach that allows me to add value in the way I trust myself to do and I love that because I don't imagine you needed you had to do that on paper.

Speaker 1:

You know a lot of gone great, this is going to be a business I'll be involved in. Can't really put a foot wrong. But you didn't. You decided to have a taste of it initially when you were young, so you understood the basis of it, which I'm right in saying that was the proper basic start from the scratch. Was it by all intents and purposes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, about by all intents and purposes. Yeah, absolutely so. Um, yeah, I started off when I was 14 sweeping the warehouse floor and um, at the time we had a big, uh warehouse down in full sutton, which is kind of down past york, and um, yeah, it was a case of sweep the floors, um, keep the parts clean, count the parts, book them in, learn how to quality control and really kind of doing all those kind of um, more basic jobs that lead to the kind of fundamental thing of, yeah, we've got some parts here we can sell um.

Speaker 2:

And then all the way through kind of my summers and then sort of growing up, I did slightly different jobs in different areas, um, all the way through to kind of ops and marketing and sales, um, which kind of I suppose gave me a really good understanding of what it actually takes to do that job, that job, that job and that job, um. And then, yeah, I suppose I got to a point where I went off to university, um, and kind of went. Actually, I think you know I've learned a bit of that in theory, but what does it actually mean in practice? Um, and so I had a bit of that entrepreneurial spirit. It's, um, I, I had to go starting a couple of businesses one or two and um, then I kind of went actually I want that experience from a larger organization.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um sorry, no, I was going to say well was the plan. All you know, I guess 14, 15 years old, most people that I don't necessarily know they want to do. I guess it's slightly different if there's a potential path for you there. But when you were sweeping the floors and look at the machine, were you thinking right, this, right, this is me X amount. Or can you remember what the mindset was at the time? It was difficult, wasn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean to be fair. I probably didn't have the best mindset as a 14, 15-year-old boy. I kind of thought.

Speaker 2:

I don't really know why I'm doing this. This could be anyone, but it's a summer job, I'll do it type of thing. No-transcript age, because lots of people you know that go to school, college, university and then you know haven't had a great experience of kind of the real world of work and especially in a kind of technical um environment. Yeah, so I think you know my journey of kind of understanding the value of that. Really, I didn't understand the value of it until a bit later.

Speaker 1:

Which I think is an interesting point actually, because if you look at any academic route, its practical element is minimal. Because it is academia, you know it's classroom-based, and I think that's often a criticism, I guess, for people coming straight from the academic route straight into, let's say, a leadership position or, you know, a manufacturing environment. It's also a criticism for even modern day apprenticeships, which don't necessarily have as much practical sort of training as it could be. Is that something? Do you think that as a, an industry, we need to fix? Because you've what you're saying? There is you. You had a much better experience for university because you had that practical grounding to understand the theory, because the theory, if not, it's just, it's just theory. You can't put it into practice, because you've, as you've got, both experiences. What your thoughts on that and could we change that? Potentially, you think?

Speaker 2:

yeah, absolutely. I 100 think this is a problem. I mean, it's one thing going through a classroom and then kind of being examined on something you've learned in a classroom, but why, in every module, with how flexibly we can learn now, is there not a placement in some sort of business for one day where you can actually apply something you've learned? You know, and I don't know the actual practical implications of this, don't get me wrong, but I I think there's a. There's a little bit of a gap there between the, the fundamental knowledge of experience, and then kind of all this experience, all this kind of theoretical learning, and I think together they're really powerful, but kind of without one you're kind of missing a piece. It's kind of all this kind of theoretical learning and I think together they're really powerful, but kind of without one you're kind of missing a piece.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of like you need this arm and this arm, but you know, and it is fundamental in my opinion, and we're probably similar age and I can't remember being in school ever being anyone speaking to me about manufacturing engineering. I can't really. I mean it was the academic subjects, subjects how you pass exams, that was it, even even careers advice, which I went on to be a crazy advisor. There was nothing really regarding that manufacturing piece. It's just unheard of. I kind of hope and think that might change now because of the, the way skill sets are changing. You look at mason engineers and the fact that links in more now with more the science, the science side to it and the the it side to it. I think that might change, but I think it's been a gap for way too long, which is why we are where we are, in my opinion yeah, I mean, it's funny.

Speaker 2:

I was trying to have a bit of a look into this and a bit of a google looking at even things like the news and a lot of. There's a big, there's been a bigger push on things like software and hardware and stuff like that, but not really on manufacturing and engineering excellence. You know, I think there's a lack of understanding, especially for young people, on the variety of careers, um, products you know, even getting excited about. Oh, we could build this here. You know, we could make that. We don't have to buy it in from, you know, the far east or whatever. We could actually build that here. That'd be pretty cool, wouldn't it? And you know, as an individual in this country, you could go from being in school, seeing something really cool or a great opportunity, and go let's design it, let's build it, let's sell it, let's market it, let's, you know, do the whole process here. And I think we need to work on that as a nation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I completely agree. So fast forward. I guess when you've you've taken yourself for university, like you say, you've tried some, you tried setting up your own businesses, and was that with a hope to get experience, or was that to hope to actually, you know, run some successful business of your own?

Speaker 2:

then um, to be fair, I didn't really know where it'd take me. So my first venture was was actually a thing called university y-o-u university, and it was about, uh, when I went to uni, um bought a load of stuff. I didn't need pots, pans, bedding, blah, blah, this. That the other kind of went. Well, that was a silly waste of money when I'm a student.

Speaker 2:

So when I kind of started this thing with the with the tagline, you know, for students, by students, and it was we'll sell you a pack, um of everything you need. We'll leave it on your bed for day one when you arrive. It saves the whole aggravated argument with your parents when they drop you off. You know it's, it's value for money. You're not buying stuff you don't need. And uh, we'd leave a little funny thing, you know, packets of haribo and little packs of things and stuff for people to kind of give them a bit of a happier feeling for a send-off. And you know, I think, um, the whole unique selling point was it was with students, we know what you need when you go to university. And then I graduated and went. I've kind of just killed off my idea because I'm not at uni anymore but great idea though, and that's, that's, entrepreneurial spirit.

Speaker 1:

Again, you've seen a, you've seen a problem. You try to fix it. What, what have you? I guess the business you've had. What have? What did you learn from them? You think?

Speaker 2:

I suppose it's the roundedness, it's. It's, you know, I think you can go and do a job right and you think a business yeah, I can get sales, no problem but then it's everything that goes on behind the scenes, the back end, managing your supply chain and finances and a bank account and legal things and contracts, and you know, it's that rounded nature of what running a business actually is. And and again, it's not something that is educated, it's not something it's taught, it's a real gap, I believe, and it's something that you know. You can have a great idea, you can be a bit of an entrepreneur or a great engineer and either discover or build something, but it's how do you, how do you make that into something that's commercially valid as a business, as a unit, as you know, and then go on to sell it and make money? And I, and I think there's a real gap for that middle piece of got a great idea, how do you commercialize it?

Speaker 1:

yeah, 100. Again. It is right back to educate, education piece, isn't it? We're not teaching people to be entrepreneurs unless you choose a business administration route, and often it's too, you know, too late because you could attract people. I didn't see a first pnl until I started this business. You know, I've been working for a long time. So it is, it's a real issue. But you know, I love the fact that you went out there and took those risks, you know, knowing you'd get some either success or you'd learn something from it. Because actually, again, it's what is the risk, particularly when you, what is the risk?

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean. You did. The risk is you fail and you learn something similar to that, isn't it? And I've got to say I did. Uh, we went and advertised at a trade show in london and it was kind of this student thing, people looking to get experience of um, you know what it might be like at uni, and you'd have, you know, the insurance people, ensley, and kind of big student accommodation providers and that kind of thing. And they were like what's this guy doing here with this pack, you know kind of thing. And I went and it was an absolute disaster. You know, we forgot this. We forgot that I didn't pay for parking. Tickets were on the wrong day. It was that kind of thing. Blimey, how many companies go to these shows, you know, like, even stuff like that just blows your mind, you know. But but again, without doing it, because you're not taught about it, you, that's what that gave me. That experience gives you the foundation to know, right, well, when I do that again, I know what I need.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100%. It's like anything, isn't it? If you're running an event, it's not the event, it's logistics behind it, it's the planning, it's the parking, it's the timing, isn't it? It's everything. There's so much to things like that, to anything, but it's that Absolutely yeah. Then, I guess, stepping foot back in the business where, um, obviously a business you'd you'd had owned, you know that, that's, that's a big responsibility, was there, you know? Was it always the case that you would lead that at some point, or Um?

Speaker 2:

so I think there was a couple of crux. You know points where there was a few crossroads. Uh, went off to get some experience in engineering for a large automobile company. Um, then I went off to get some experience in engineering for a large automobile company. Then I went off and got some experience in the agricultural industry, got some technical knowledge, and I think I honestly didn't feel I had the experience before that to be able to step up to a leadership position. I know a few people in family businesses who have just fallen into it and done it without really the wider experience and, to be honest, honest, I didn't have the confidence for that. So it was, I suppose, a mixture of my own confidence and the right time for the business. The business was a mature point where you know we could work out having two directors, if you like, or senior directors and kind of. You have this patch, I'll have this patch. And how do we actually work together? You know, I think some people think family run this. You know father and son, they work very similarly.

Speaker 1:

Actually we couldn't be anything more, you know, on the like um, so you're playing to your strengths though there aren't you, that is, but I guess, to play your strengths you got. You got to understand what you are in the first place, haven't you?

Speaker 2:

yeah and um, that's been a journey. I would say that's probably been the hardest part of the journey. You know, there's never been another director or employee that my dad's taken on like me, but at the same time I've never worked for a boss that has been my father. So you know, there's there's the whole father son dynamic relationship at play there. There's the kind of workplace dynamics there's, you know, the dynamics with the rest of the leadership team and those are all really big considerations and they've had to be and those are all really big considerations and they've had to be. There's been challenges but we just have tried to tackle them all head on and work out kind of right. Well, my view is this, your view is this how do we actually meet in the middle?

Speaker 1:

Apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialize in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ exec search arm of the business. Both from the contract and permit side, we offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for hard-to-fill roles or a full partnership service where we become an extension of your business. For any information, please get in touch with me or the team. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thank you, yeah, whenever you go into a business or start in a business in a new role irrespective of if it's a family business or not part of your role will be, I imagine, to understand what the culture is and understand if you need to take that culture in a slightly different direction to fall into your leadership. What's that journey been like? To be happy with the culture of the business the way you want it.

Speaker 2:

So Cyclops has been a bit of a funny one out with that, because there's been a lot of people there who've been with the company for between 15 and 30 years, a lot of people there who've been with the company for between 15 and 30 years, so actually a lot of people who've probably seen me grow up and kind of work in those different areas and I think I walked in quite senior but with probably, I would say, a lot of the respect of a lot of those longer serving members of staff. And the second part of that is probably the communication piece. So I alluded at the the start. You know, part of leadership is about the vision of the journey and the importance of trust and communication. So for me that's been how do I communicate to everybody effectively that this is the journey I want Cyclops Group to now go into?

Speaker 2:

And that's about over communicating. That's about this is how we've done it. That's about this is how we've done it, you know, and that's worked great, but now we're of a size and a shape and a feel that actually this is 2025. We've got to, we've got to work this way. So this is how we're going to do it. This is why this is how this is the milestones, and I think that's what it's come down to.

Speaker 1:

For me it's, it's that trust piece, it's leadership and setting those stalls out for good communication and that's really and you mentioned there as well the amount of people who've been there for a long, long time, which is probably quite rare now. You know, basically, you know people move every two years. Five years plus is considered, you know, a great record now, but obviously you've done something there. You've got a business there with a culture and ethos which is different, and that doesn't happen by accident. A culture and ethos which is different and that doesn't happen by accident. You've obviously mentioned communication is key. How does that? You know? If you walked into a business where it was the opposite to that, you know people were leaving every year. People were citing that that communication was the biggest problem. How do you replicate what you've done there in a different business in terms of the day-to-day? You know the actual, the meetings, the, the emails and so and so, because sometimes people go. They're great communication, but why is that and how? That's the. That's what I'm interested in.

Speaker 2:

That's all right so I slightly controversially, I mean, I probably do nothing for the first, you know, 30 days, it's really understanding. But post that, it's about breaking the wheel a little bit. Um, it would be. You know, you're in the middle of a meeting that's gone on too long that you're not achieving anything. Guys, come on, that's enough. Stop and people get into habits. People love habits and that's the thing that you've got to change. That's the hardest thing to change, but it's the thing you've got to change. And when there isn't great communication, in my opinion, the best way to to change that is to start breaking down some habits that that have either crept in or organically been, you know, created through culture, and so it's about breaking those habitual, uh, things that lead to the wrong outcomes in your business like that.

Speaker 1:

Um, is that not saying bad behavior? Is that poor behavior for some some businesses? Is that lazy, or is it just lack of product productivity? Because sometimes those bad habits aren't because someone is a bad employee, like you say, it's just something that's ingrained into them from previous management, from previous culture. I guess you look at manufacturing. Now we're all trying to improve efficiencies and and increase profit because things have got so, so tight. So I imagine in this type of industry, this, you've almost got to change what were good habits to even better habits now, don't you?

Speaker 2:

yeah, absolutely, that's, that's totally correct. I mean, how much do we do? We attribute laziness as like a purposeful character trait, right, like in my opinion, I think sometimes nobody does anything outwardly purposefully, incorrectly or wrong, but you know, behaviours and things creep in because of either mismanagement or miscommunication and that kind of sets then a new tone of what's normal and expected.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I think vision, vision's interesting one. Um, I had someone on here once was talking about vision and where your business is going, and they sort of challenged me and said how strong is your vision? I said pretty strong, I think we talk about it a lot. And then he said if I went in that room and I got everyone to write down exactly what the vision is word for word, would they do it? And I was like that's a good point. Not sure everyone would. And he got me on a trail of okay, doing some work behind it. Same question to you um, what would that be like in your organization, you think?

Speaker 2:

I think if I looked at where we were two years ago, I think you would walk into a room with, let's say, 10 people in it. You'd probably get nine different answers. But from where we are today, I think we if I was going to rate us out of 10 on it, I would probably say we were seven or eight. You know we still have some work to do, and I think I don't know whether that's down to my opinion about the over-communication piece. You know, what you want to do is you want to write. You want to be the story writer of your business. As the leader, as a senior operator, you want to be the one who tells that story. What you don't want is there to be rumour, conjecture, uncertainty.

Speaker 2:

Oh, we're trying to get to this number. I thought our target was this number. Oh, we bought that business. Why have we done that? Oh, you know, why are we looking at that software? Don't know no idea. And, um, oh, who's that? Oh, they're a new starter. Oh, that's great. Nobody told me. You know, it's all those kind of questions and conversations that you absolutely don't want, because then you're not telling the story. You need to be the one who's going so, and so started this week. Here we are against our targets. Here's what it looks like year one, year two, year three, and these are all the reasons why we're doing it and I think that's the the message I would always try and reinforce. Is that almost over communication piece for the vision? Um, and yeah, I preach, but I'd say we've got a little bit of work, more work, to do on it no, I like that.

Speaker 1:

It's great, that's. That's really good advice. The in in a a town hall environment, in a, in a sort of roundup. What do you think works most effectively within a manufacturing environment, would you say?

Speaker 2:

I think it's about openness to get feedback. So I think, trying to create an environment, especially in manufacturing, where sometimes there can be almost kind of that us and them, and especially between almost like your shop floor and upstairs or office and non-office, what you want to do is kind of break down some of that, some of those barriers. So, for example, we do an anonymous survey monthly that the SLT have to stand up and answer the same question to all staff. So we make sure that those questions are anonymous, we offer the opportunity for feedback and we give the same answer to everyone. So, um, that starts to encourage that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you know no idea who asked that question, but great question. Thanks for this. This is great because I can actually now explain it to everyone in the business and it's it's anything you can do to break down some of those barriers so that people feel like they can actually ask the right questions. They go oh, I don't understand why we're now doing this process and you get to go. Actually we're doing it because of this, and they go oh, okay, well, fine, but you know, now I know like that yeah, you've obviously.

Speaker 1:

you've obviously what I really like you've sharpened your skills as a leader through the experience you've got and I think that that's great and I think that in itself is a lesson for people that you know sometimes you, sometimes you have to take yourself outside of your comfort zone and that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to start different businesses, but it might mean taking yourself out of something which feels comfortable. Out of all the years, now that you've been a leader, how do you think you have changed over time? You think, if you sort of, if you're leading, you know when you first started out to where you are now, what's been the biggest change you think?

Speaker 2:

probably being reflective. Um, I wouldn't have ever called myself an arrogant individual, but I would say that did. I have a course of action and a plan of where I wanted to go and bulldoze a little bit, maybe a little bit, yeah whereas now, when I'm doing that kind of almost the vision piece of right, what does the next six months look like? What's the next year look like? I've learned to be a little bit more reflective and go well. I tried this last year. This didn't go well because of X or when this last happened. This is how I should have done it better and it's that kind of continual learning piece of right. Well, how can I make that better? So I'd say that that's been probably the biggest change.

Speaker 1:

And how do you do that? You know someone who is running a busy business. She's the father. You know all the business of. Where do we find our time? How do you? Is that just a take yourself out, reflect? Is it a write things down what works for you, do you?

Speaker 2:

think, you know, I I actually think having um, having a little little girl, um really helped me with that, because there were certain things I assumed about being a dad. And then you're kind of in it, you're like, oh okay, I need to maybe think about how I'm gonna do that tomorrow, you know, and I kind of thought, well, if that applies at home, why doesn't it apply at work? And I think part of it is as I've gotten a little bit older, it's a bit easier to think about how your day's gone and gone, you know what. I probably should have done that this way or next time. I'd like to try that. So I think there's partly a piece on learning and age, but partly a piece of just kind of taking some time and using the time to think.

Speaker 1:

You're absolutely right as well. There is no tougher leadership than parenting. It's the hardest piece, because they are nonstop, even from a very early age, negotiating some way, where that's crying. It's all the consequence of not giving. What they want is crying. It's um, but it does. It does make you immediately reflect on you as a as a human, doesn't it? In terms of how you deal with situations and often stressful situations, a period of time when you are tired. So I I agree. I think that is a real key transferability. If we look at um now, this is, for a lot of businesses, the most challenging period they've gone through. You know the last. Let's be honest. There's always been something for the last five, six years, but brexit, covid war, all sorts, you know energy crisis. Now we've got issues with with tariffs and all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 1:

Um, I think businesses are more resilient than ever, because of that however, it's still a challenging period of time if we look at electronics in isolation. What's happening there? What, what trends and challenges are you seeing, would you say, today?

Speaker 2:

so it is a it's a really great question. There's a there are lots of cycles and electronics um there is um lots of changes happening all the time and those changes aren't just in relation to, you know, manufacturing, the far east. People think a lot of electronics is all kind of in the far east and asia and india and those sorts of areas, and I think um people don't realize there's a lot of chip designers. There's a lot of new startup companies that are opening all the time. We talk about kind of cambridge and oxford areas, but it's not even just there. It's up newcastle way.

Speaker 2:

Um there's a great company that I know up there who's doing incredible things with flexible um printed circuit boards. There is um stuff going on in the us and there's so much opportunity for one. There's a lot of opportunity for new people coming into the industry and even in a time where electronics is in probably a period of sort of contraction in some areas, I would say there are still loads of new opportunity because people are still buying phones, they're buying washing machines, they're buying you know everything you can think of that is electronic. You know it's, it's big, you start putting it all together and it's one of the biggest industries.

Speaker 1:

Do you think there's a missing opportunity in the UK, then to capitalise on that, because you're right. I think that is the misconception that's all outside the UK, when there isn't some great companies out here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think people also think it might just then be in the software side of designing. But actually there's a huge hardware element and you know what, when you build something electronic, well, you need to put it in a box, you need to stand it up. Is it an electric charging point? Is it, you know, a laptop? Is it a pat testing device? You know so many different facets of electronics that are both designed, built and assembled and delivered all in the uk and I think people miss out on the idea that those companies need marketing, they need finance, they need operations, they need supply chain, they need design, they need assembled, and I think there is a misconception about none of that being done here. I think there is a missing piece on how big that is here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and when you're somewhere there as well, for me it goes right back again to school, doesn't it? Because, same thing, when people start here, we hire people who typically aren't from recruitment, aren't from industry. Different, we take a variety of different people. I always ask them, on the induction, what do you know about manufacturing? It's fine if it's a, it's a one out of ten, but what is it? And often you know big, low numbers. I say right, okay.

Speaker 1:

I say how do you think that that laptop was made? And they'll'll say, oh, I think it was probably made in a factory. Okay, well, do you realize how many factories and how many you know when you talk about every single part of it? If you take that and you can see that you know they're interested. But it's just, it's new information, because you're right, I think that would have been a fascinating topic in schools, to literally to understand everything that goes on from the design of someone, literally with a pen and paper, to to a cad software also, everything that goes into something that we just take for for granted every day. It's incredible and this is why I love this industry, but it just feels. It just feels so underrepresented.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it does yeah, it's interesting when I think about. You know, um, when you think about product skews, right, you get people who sell t-shirts to pharmaceuticals, to anything. Um, in our stock in the uk we have nearly 400 000 lines, so it's different skews of parts and that doesn't even touch the sides. You know, it's absolutely phenomenal like the scope of electronics in this country is insane.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100%. I completely agree. I'll let you ask you on the scale please, because I think you know companies. I don't think we'll see companies grow to the same they haven't been growing in the last 10 years. But I don't think if you look at manufacturing, I don't think growth headcount-wise will be on the cards for that many businesses. It'll be a different sort of scale. It could be automation, it could be, but it'll be some form of improvement, some form of expansions, if you like. How do you change the business? You know you take a business like yours which is a, you know culture is at its heart, people is right at its heart and that communication piece. How do you keep that sort of the values you've got whilst you're trying to scale and often change an organization? What advice you have?

Speaker 2:

that's a great question as well. Um, I think it's about sticking to those values. It's really important to not get lost in it. So you know, uh, for example, you make an acquisition or you take on quite a large number of staff, you can't forget the importance of the communication piece, the understanding. Um, you know, we've diversified and grown quite a lot over the past couple of years, so we had to put in place a new induction process because people felt like they were such a small cog in what was turning out to be quite a large machine.

Speaker 2:

You know, we're still, relatively speaking, a small business, and I think people then thought well, I don't know what any of those other people do. So what we did is we developed a new induction system. So for the first two or three weeks when people start, they get to see what every department and every division of the company do, and then, when they come back at the end of those two or three weeks, they go. You know what? I totally understand it now. That's really helpful and I think again, that's you've got to adapt when your business grows and develops. You've, when your business grows and develops, you've got to adapt how you do it so that it still runs effectively, but with those values at its core.

Speaker 1:

Excellent, I love that Brilliant. I want to ask you three quickfire questions, which I used to do now and sometimes I'm looking to bring it back, so you don't know about these. The classic one you've half answered it, but you've got to give me a different answer. What advice would you give yourself now, knowing what you do.

Speaker 2:

So if you go back 20 years, what advice would you? Would you give yourself? Um, slow down, you don't know everything and learn from the ground up. Um, oh, so many different directions. I could go with this, but you know, um, it's about that balance between experience and academia. For me it's you can learn it anyway, but try and be as rounded as you can with those you know. Don't over presume to know someone's job just because you've learned about it. So it's learning piece, it's a reflection piece slowing down and understanding that.

Speaker 1:

Next question. There's an obvious answer here that you might not be able to. I'm going to say you can't say him, because then they'll give you an out who's the best leader you've ever had and why you can't say dad. So at least I've given you an out now.

Speaker 2:

Who's the best leader? Um, there was a guy who I worked for in um, the large car company that I worked for in Cheshire, and he was um. He was a really, really good leader. The reason is because he saw the value in saying to an individual this is what we're looking to complete as an objective. This is how I think we get there. This is how we use your skills to do that. Go and do it.

Speaker 2:

And the piece for me about the difference really between him leading the department was he wasn't looking to micromanage every KPI, but he was going this is what we're trying to achieve and being really really clear about it, and going let's see how we get there, but you manage that time, but this is what we're trying to do.

Speaker 2:

So he was trying to encourage that kind of independentness of managing time objectives well, everything about how you're working, but always brought it back to this is what we're trying to achieve. So for me, his leadership piece was inspiring isn't the right word, but so clear. I've never had that much clarity of we need to get here, we need to get here, we need to get here Kind of work how you want to, but this is where we're getting to and it was, I think, so right for kind of almost the modern age of you know, um, at the time I was learning a lot about engineering and it was kind of that thing of he didn't even want to know how I was learning about it or what I was doing. I could be sat in one of the cars for all he cared, but it was. This is where we're trying to get to.

Speaker 1:

Let's do it which is which is, again, he's obviously he's been a big inspiration for you on that communication and values piece, you know, and the vision piece, because you know that's obviously what we've been talking about. Interesting A recommendation I'm always after and anyone else listening any books or audio books you've ever read or listened to which has helped.

Speaker 2:

There's been a couple. There's a really interesting one. I'm not sure I agree with all of his points, but, um, tim ferris, uh, the four-hour work week. So I'm not one for absolutes, but something that that book I took away from is the value of time. Um, the value of time, I think, as you take on certain roles in your career, you become a parent, you know, um, and now, I'm proud to say, I outsource my ironing. I'm terrible at it, but it's it's about kind of how you, how you value your time, how you value the bits that you can do, and something that has taken me, I think, a long time to learn with the help of some of these books, is that I can deliver value like this by doing these things, or I can deliver value like this by doing these things that I'm not great at, and for me, anyone who is trying to be reflective about themselves, um, could do with having a long thinker going. How can I deliver value best?

Speaker 1:

you know, I think it's really focusing on those yeah, I read the book, that book and I had exact same realization. It actually got me, challenged me, because I think I was so caught up on trying to improve weaknesses. Do you know me? I just this is a weakness I must improve. Actually, just sometimes you just have to find someone in your business that's good at your weaknesses and then lead into your to what you're good at. But it's, it's a, it's a nice realization, isn't it? You don't have to be good at everything yeah, exactly yeah, focus on your strengths.

Speaker 1:

100 um. So what's what's happening next 12 to 18 months? And in cyclo, what, what's? Uh, what's the next couple years looking like exciting?

Speaker 2:

um, we have a lot of exciting projects on at the moment, so we're doubling down on how we deal with our existing customers by looking on how we can provide loads more value. You know, in the electronic supply chain you can look at everything from manufacturing, assembly box, build, sourcing, and it's how we can do that best. As Cyclops Group, we're doing that by looking at things like our ARP systems, because we've been acquisitive and bought several companies. That's got slightly more complicated on our back end, but we're looking on how we can do that even better. We'll look at new markets and I would never say never about any more companies we would look at on the horizon either.

Speaker 1:

And what's the best way to contact you, david? Just LinkedIn email. What's easiest.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, best way is LinkedIn. Hit me up up. I'm pretty much always on there, I'm quite active, so, uh, yeah, feel free to drop me a line and thank you massively today because, look, I've really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:

There's loads of little takeaways from this, but I think I guess the big one for me that is what I've been really impressed with, which I think a lot of people will take from is is having the courage, firstly, to to take yourself outside of your comfort zone and understand for your career that you needed to learn x, y and z before you came back to do something which ultimately is is obviously what you're always chosen to do. But without that experience you wouldn't be the leader you are today. You mentioned the, the chap who was a great manager for you. You wouldn't have experienced being under his leadership if it wasn't for you taking those steps. And I think that's important sometimes, that sometimes you have to take those risks because ultimately you know you'll be better off for doing so. And I think the other part for me is that communication piece, because I completely agree.

Speaker 1:

I think the age-old thing people leave companies because of bad minds. They do, but they leave companies because there's no transparency, there's no communication. We saw that over COVID. We saw the people who were kept on because of failure schemes but as soon as they were back they left because they had no communication from their business whatsoever in that time. And that was a key point where it was an acid test for how companies dealt with difficult situations and how well they thought of their employees and think, um, good companies like yours kept people up to date for processing. Keep people up to date with what's happening, because otherwise it leads to anxiety and and often whisperings that come to nothing. So I think that'll be a real lesson for people listening to, to get a grip of that. Get a grip of of what's happening and understand what's happening in business, understand the vision and then communicate that out daily. It's not a quarterly thing or annual thing at an AGM, so that's been a real takeaway for me. So, but also thank you for continuing to to bring awareness to the industry not just manufacturing, but specifically electronics and everything around that, because it's an industry again which needs awareness and good people in it. So thank you, dave. I've really enjoyed it. It's been great. Yeah, no, thank you very much for your time. Thanks, mate. Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast. Please just like or subscribe. It really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry If you want any more information about Theo James, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team.

Speaker 1:

I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums on seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help improve their lives and, ultimately, I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon.