Manufacturing Leaders

How to Unlock Your Teams Full Potential

• Mark Bracknall • Season 11 • Episode 6

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🎙️ Transformational Leadership in Manufacturing with Daniel Stanway

In this insightful episode, Daniel Stanway, transformational business coach and former manufacturing leader, shares how real change begins with identity, mindset, and trust. Discover how to build a culture where people don’t just comply, they commit.

🔑 Key takeaways:
• Why identity-based motivation outperforms traditional incentives
• The crucial role of psychological safety in driving continuous improvement
• How to lead with values, not just metrics or processes
• Making change stick by aligning personal meaning with business goals
• Preparing teams for AI and automation through capability building

If you’re looking to hire manufacturing leaders who can drive this level of change, Theo James Recruitment can help!


 👉 Explore our recruitment services at theojamesrecruitment.co.uk



Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast with me, mark Bracknell, marketing Director of Theo James Recruitment. What a treat we have in store for you today. Today we invited Daniel Stanaway, a transformational business coach, someone with a background in manufacturing, manufacturing leadership, and for the last 10 to 15 years he has been going into manufacturing organizations and helping their leaders become better leaders through process and continuous improvement. It was a real insightful episode, this, where I learned so much. I think my main takeaways were the importance of communicating a goal down to the employees, but actually why that goal is important to them. I think as leaders, sometimes we think about the bigger picture and we communicate the end goal but not necessarily get them to understand why they need to be invested in the first place. And it was a real interesting episode about we talk about the psychology of humans and the need, as humans, to work in a real safe space where you can be able to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes and have an environment where people can innovate and think about new ideas. This is going to be one of those episodes, as a leader, where hopefully, you're going to come away and want to inspire and motivate people in your team and actually come away with tangible tools to do so. Daniel has written a book, which is also an audio book, which is nearly finished but is already available for you to listen to or read, and he goes into depth about some of the lessons along the way in that book. So it's definitely a bit of a different episode, this, where you're going to understand from a real transformation leader how to be a better leader yourself.

Speaker 1:

So please sit back and enjoy the episode. Please, please, please, just do me the honor of clicking like or subscribe. It really helps sort of grow the show as well and feel free to leave a comment and share with others. So thank you very much. Hope you enjoyed the episode Excellent. So a massive warm welcome stay to Dan Stanaway, who is a business coach, a transformational coach, someone who's worked very closely with multiple manufacturing organizations, which is why I'm super excited to have him on here today. How are we doing, dan? You all right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, really good Thank you, mark?

Speaker 1:

How are you? I'm good, I'm good. We were saying beforehand that normally my process here is obviously we have the prep call which we've had. I normally have a list of potential topics and questions-ish rough that we sort of go through. We don't this time around, we're going off the cuff. So it should be quite fun.

Speaker 2:

so looking forward to it the um.

Speaker 1:

The first question is the same question I ask. Everybody comes on, so I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on this. So what does it mean to you to be a leader? What do you say?

Speaker 2:

yeah, well, I think the, the words, uh, that always springs to mind for me is is, is that of privilege, um, and I privilege, and I think it's an act of service, is the way that I see it. And you know, in a nutshell, that's it. You know, I mean outside of work. I'm a coach of a junior football team and you know, to see those boys develop as people, not just as footballers, that in essence, just in a nutshell, it's a privilege and absolutely an act of service. And the same goes when you're helping people as well.

Speaker 1:

I love that, and I think all great leaders have that in them that they see it as a privilege to make people better, which obviously you do. I think people get into management for different reasons, so has that motivation changed over time for you? If you go back right to the start of your career, what do you say?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a really interesting question. So so, yes, yes, it certainly is. I mean, you can probably tell from my, my, my accent. I'm originally from, from Middlesbrough, and and I think, I think that's that that early sort of childhood really shaped the way that I, I kind of view the world, or the lens that I, that I that I view the world and I think, um, you know my own sort of personal story. Yes, I wanted to get on in life, so there was, there was a, there was an element of kind of um, you know, sort of survival and thriving that came from the direction that I wanted to go in. But I think the Just ask the question again. Sorry, mark, I just missed that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, in terms of Because I think that when you first get into leadership, you get into it because you want to earn more money or you just want to progress, and I think you know as part of your career. Then the pattern I've seen with people who typically come in here is that good leaders see as that privilege and see as as a, as a position responsibility. But I don't think you start out on the journey necessarily wanting that. It's just, it's almost like an added benefit from being good at your trade. Do you think that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, absolutely so. So, yes, I think I think there's an element where we all have that, that kind of I'm doing it, you know, for for a sense that that I have. But certainly as I kind of moved on in my career and you, you, you start to realize that the um, that what you're doing is helping people, and then there's a reward in and of itself from from that, when you, when you see people grow, so I think, yeah, as a certainly coming out of, I think we kind of get, um, uh, kind of trained or programmed in that way. You know, we, you know some of us go to to university, you know if we're lucky enough to do that and we kind of we move through that and it kind of is all about ourselves in the early stages of our lives and that's kind of the way that we're, you know we brought up as children.

Speaker 2:

And then, as you move into the world of work, you start to realize that you are part of a community. You know whether that's a local team, a broader business, or how the business fits in the larger community, or or or otherwise. And, yes, so that that has definitely been part of the arc of of of my life realizing that what I do has a place in the world. And so, yeah, you know you've got a, we've all got mortgages to pay and so on and so forth, and maybe families to bring up, and there's an element I've got to look after that. But, broader than that, the stuff that gets you out of, the stuff that gets me out of bed on the morning, absolutely is about that privilege and that act of service.

Speaker 1:

And what's harder, managing and training teams in manufacturing or managing the kids' footy team.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of parallels. I have to say there is a lot of parallels. You see, human nature for what it is in the raw. There's a lot of parallels. I have to say there is a. There is a lot of parallels. You see, you see, human nature for what it is in the raw. Yeah, um, you know, um, I mean the team that I, uh, coach, it's a. It's a team of boys. You know, a team of 11 year old boys, and they just say what's on their mind. It just comes out, and it comes out raw and and and for some, for in some ways that makes it easier and you know, you, you think, okay, right, that's whatever they've just come out with. And I think in adults sometimes it's harder to spot, but it's still the same thing. So I'd probably put them on a parallel, but for completely different reasons.

Speaker 1:

I'd like to go back briefly in terms of, because obviously I'm very interested in what you do, but I'm kind of interested in why and how it first started, because now you are someone who goes into, let's say, manufacturing institutions and helps leaders become better leaders. Yeah, was this always the path you wanted to go down, or how did it all start for you, would you say?

Speaker 2:

No, I think, if I think right back to the early days, you know I kind of did what I think a lot of people did, which is I followed the advice of the career advisors at school and at college. And you know, what are you interested in? I think at the time I was very much interested in engineering and also, I have to admit, you know, a massive fan of Top Gun at the time. So that kind of led me into aeronautical engineering and I think while studying that at university I just kind of I realized it wasn't it, it really, it really wasn't me. You know, that kind of the engineering side of it. This it was, yeah, it was interesting, but it wasn't really a passion and I was much more interested in, um, the uh, the people aspects, and so I got kind of naturally drawn towards whether it be project management, so that's management with, with people, or into into leadership roles, and so I think I had that, um, just as a natural instinct, you know, all the way along.

Speaker 2:

But I kind of fell into continuous improvement, I think, probably because my first job as a manufacturing engineer, there's a natural kind of segue from, you know, improving the you know, or optimising how a production line works. And then you know how we were taught what continuous improvement was back in the early noughties. You know whether that be lean or six sigma, you'd go along. And you know, I mean, I got, I eventually did a six sigma master black belt. You know qualification. But whether you, whatever those things, those, those things are it was always really about, um, the people aspect and how how can we help people optimise their best, and I think that was an underlying theme. But I didn't really kind of articulate that in my own mind until much later in life and there was kind of a key point for me. So I had a normal career with, you know, going through operational leadership roles, getting promotion, you know, maybe finding that I was a bit of a dead end in a job and I needed to move, you know those leadership roles, getting promotion, you know, maybe finding that I was a bit of a dead end in a job and I needed to move, you know those types of things. But it was yeah, it was as a plant manager that I really started to get the itch for wanting to do, wanting to really help businesses become what I would describe now is achieve their potential and, for some reason, being a plant manager within a business just didn't tick that box for me. But going and doing it and being a lean consultant as I set myself up, as you know, back in 2013, 2014, now, something like that back then was a way of just being able to move from business to business and help them, um, and be a little bit better.

Speaker 2:

Um, but the there is a, there is a, that kind of a, a crucial kind of point within my own arc. I would describe it was I was actually doing a um, a gig as a lean consultant, and it was, it was, it was um. You know I I won't name name names, but I was. It was actually on a, on a night shift for a for an organization that maintained railways, and um, and I was, I was there and I was. You know, I've been asked to come in and help them set up a lean uh system and and eliminate waste and and you know, and and so on and so forth, and it was, it was on that gig.

Speaker 2:

Some the leader, um, asked me uh, he was the, he was the, the, the supervisor, the manager, I should say, for the um, for the night shift. He just said to me, dan, what, what are you doing here? And it was just like a really simple question. We all have these moments. You know, these things that we always remember, and and that for me was.

Speaker 2:

I sort of sat there and I thought, and what? The words that came out of my mouth were something like I'm here, I'm here to help you. And when the words came out, I realized that is what I'm doing here. I'm not here to help them put in a Kanban system, I'm not here to help them. You know, do a to eliminate waste or you know, do those types of things. That's a kind of a byproduct. I'm actually here to help them.

Speaker 2:

And it was a kind of a panacea moment for me where I started to move away from systems and processes and tools to really understand the kind of the psychology of why people were doing what they were doing. And I remember looking through that particular contract, that particular project, through an entirely different lens, and I got a different results. I got what I felt was a much more ingrained results. Where people were going to I was going to leave them with something that stuck for a long time rather than, you know, something that would only be there while I was looking at it, or perhaps while their bosses were looking at it, and then they would just go back to doing what they were doing. So that kind of arc has led me to where I am now, and I think that was probably around about, you know, maybe five or six or seven years ago, and I've never looked back since.

Speaker 1:

Excellent, so that legacy for you has always been extremely important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, it was an underlying. I don't think I was aware of how important it was to me, but certainly there was something in my background, you know, being brought up in in the area that I was brought up in, you know, post-industrial northern town type of thing, where there was a definite interest in the people and making society a little bit better and how do we get better to do things and lift it. And I carried that through to end, which is which is where I am at the moment. Yes, excellent.

Speaker 1:

Well, I want to talk about soon is obviously. I know you've um, you've virtually finished. I'll finish a book which I will hopefully get some, some teasers and some tips out of that, because I think it'll be a great place to start. Before that and this is probably a big question, difficult to answer but, out of the businesses you've worked with and all the people you've helped, is there a common theme of a, an error or or that you see in businesses when you first start working with, and almost a low-h hanging fruit for you to start putting them in the right direction, would you say?

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's, it's, it's um. A really broad definition I would use is not building in the kind of the human psychology side of change from the start. So I think and I certainly used to do this you know whether it would be a divisional continuous improvement manager or otherwise. You would start any change effort or you would start the you know the plans for what we're going to do as a business next year. You would start from a basis of what's the methodology, what are the tools and techniques we need to use, and you would start from a very logical, very rational point of view.

Speaker 2:

But what businesses are not doing at that point is they're not actually thinking about how are we going to change the, the attitude, how are we going to change the um, the way people perceive the change we need to make, and so they they go headlong into designing a methodology, designing the plans, and it's all very robust and it's all very well executed, but um, it's not designed with the human brain in mind, the thing that we all are, this being a human being, the existence of how we are as humans, and I think that is it.

Speaker 2:

If you change that lens, if you kind of go okay, let's put that down and reduce the importance of the rigor and increase the importance of how are we going to help people understand first of all you know the simon cynic start with why stuff, understand why we need to do it first of all, and then help them internalize the change that needs to make. And I think that's the that's the number one um thing that I would always well. So that's the number one mistake I see, and that's the number one thing that I would always point people in the direction of.

Speaker 1:

Do you think that's because a lot of decisions are made by your real senior leaders? And I'm thinking, when you talk about that, I'm thinking of maybe mistakes that I've made in the past where I've thought about as a business where we need to go and I've almost reverse engineered the process to get there. But, like you say, I've not necessarily factored in the emotional psychology of what it means for them and why should they do that? Is that on the right lines there?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely what? A hundred percent? A hundred percent of that you know. So I'm not a psychologist, right, I'm not a psychologist, it's you know. But you know I am. I am a coach. I mean, you know I am studying for, you know, an ILM level seven in executive mentoring and coaching type of thing. But I think that's really just, you know, that's part of my passion to really try and understand more how I can help people.

Speaker 2:

But the thing that I find most useful when explaining this is kind of the use of models. Most useful when explaining this is kind of the use of models. So if we think about you know, if I'm coming from an engineering background a little bit, you know if we think about sort of Newton, you know Newton came up with his laws to describe the world you know he's got the, so they've got the Newtonian laws, and what we now know is that that model is flawed. It's not actually the whole truth. However, it is still remarkably useful and describes so much about what you know. If we want to build a bridge, even if you want to put a rocket into space, you can use those laws and you won't go far wrong. And I think there's also psychological models which describe how the human brain works, and I think the thing, one of the ones that stuck out at me and I actually keep it on my desk there's a book by Shad Helmstetter it's from the 1980s I think it is and he describes it's basically called what to Say when you Talk to Yourself, and I find it one of the most useful models and I think, doing the studying, coaching and learning about all the different types of models that you can got that describe the way that the human works, he describes a really useful one, a really useful model.

Speaker 2:

You know to explain it in short, behaviors are a result of a, you know, a process in the brain that starts with programming and beliefs. And I think, if, if you want to sort of think about how do I change behaviors, how do I change actions, if you only focus, focus on the behaviors and the actions, you will get a certain result. If you focus on the programming and beliefs that exist within people collectively, because we all have when you're in a business, you all have shared experiences that generate beliefs and so on and so forth if you focus there, the actions and behaviors will take care of themselves, and so it's. It's absolutely, if you think about the business, you do and we all do it, we do the rational structure, we do all of those things first and foremost, and we think right.

Speaker 2:

And you know, yes, we need to take waste out of the business. We'll have to use, you know, we'll have to use the eight wastes. We're going to need Kanban systems, we're going to need short interval controls. We're going to need all of these things no-transcript a coaching manager manner which is about asking rather than a consulting manner, which is about telling you can, you can help people derive their own beliefs or maybe challenge their existing beliefs, and so that it changes, and then they'll develop a different attitude which will develop a different set of feelings, which will ultimately drive the behavior that you would, you would probably, you would probably want.

Speaker 1:

Apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialize in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ exec search arm of the business. Both from the contract and permit side, we offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for hard-to full roles or a full partnership service where we become an extension of your business. For any information, please get in touch with me or the team. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode.

Speaker 2:

Thank, you so. So, yes, it's, it is. It's about focusing on the psychology first and the tools and the techniques and the methodology and the program management and the rigor kind of second. If, if that makes sense, yeah, it does, yeah, very interesting.

Speaker 1:

This has obviously led you to write a book, which I imagine isn't easy. Everyone I know that's written a book has said it's been bloody hard work. Yes, what led you to want to do that?

Speaker 2:

It was honestly, it was just an itch that I needed to scratch and I think if I was to go on to my hard drive I've probably got about five or six attempts that you know. I got stuck at the first page or I got stuck in the first chapter. But last year I kind of I just took some time out, a little bit of a sabbatical, I gave myself a little bit of time and I just I kind of wanted to formulate all of the thoughts that I had about all and and and just started really um kind of um, writing and and just letting it, letting it flow, and I and I kind of I think I was just lucky enough to hit a um, a vein and it just started to come out and it kind of started. It was it's. It's really interesting actually, because the ideas that I had at the end of the book are actually not the ideas that I had at the start. But trying to explain it to somebody I had this kind of person in mind as I was writing it, trying to explain it to them I kind of thought, no, that's not going to work. And it changed the ideas and I eventually came up with this thing that I call focused excellence, so like operational excellence, but it's focused and it's three things specifically. You know, it's about having the right techniques, it's about having eliciting motivation in the right way and then doing that within a team or a group. So it's about culture, and I actually split the motivation into two things, whether it's goal-focused motivation or identity-focused motivation, as I call it. But yes, I kind of formulated this thing and it was only at the end that I came up with a title, and I still don't like the title and actually I still regard the book as being unfinished, which is why I've not actually gone to the full publication.

Speaker 2:

But yes, it's available on ebook. You know, I give it away freely. Um, I even recorded an audiobook version, you know, and that's that's available on Spotify and unfortunately it is my dulcet tones that people have to listen to. So, you know, maybe maybe putting it on 1.5 times the speed or something like that can help get through it a little bit. Um, yeah, I mean, it was the most rewarding thing and it's one of those things where it leaves you really exposed, because you just put that idea out there and if someone doesn't like your idea, what does that mean, type of thing. But yeah, I mean I love the process and I've made myself a promise that, no matter what, I have to draw it to an end this year. So I'm probably going to add to it a little bit, change it a little bit and then go for full publication before Christmas anyway.

Speaker 1:

What have you learned about yourself from writing the book?

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow, fantastic. I think it's certainly been a massive slice of humble pie. I think is the honest answer, and I think when writing the book, I have to kind of relive the experiences of what has brought me to the current conclusion, which includes the mistakes that I've made. And reliving that is painful. It's just as painful as it was when it happened, and I think that's helped me understand how flawed and fallible I am, but also, at the same time, to kind of give myself a little bit of a break to say that, yeah, but you learn from that, you, you kind of.

Speaker 2:

You know, you dusted yourself off, if you know, if you made a trip or a fall, you got up and you carried on and you and you implemented what you learned, you reflected on the mistake and and then and then carried on. So I found a very humbling experience and I'm and as much as the ideas now you've asked me the question and I'm thinking on my feet. Really the the, as much as the ideas that I ended with are not the ideas that I started with. I think, yes, it fundamentally changed me as a person from before I read it to after. So that's quite profound actually when I, when I think about it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, now what I'm interested in. If interested in, if I was an engineering manager and I just sat down and I had 10, 15 minutes to either listen or read some of your book I appreciate you can't give it all away in here If I just picked up a random page or a random chapter what do you think would be the most interesting for them to pick up and read, and what lesson would you want them to come away with? It might be something really specific, it might be something quite holistic. What do you think you'd be quite pleased them to come out with?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I would direct them to the identity-based or the identity-focused motivation section, just to increase the importance of that. And you know there's loads of other material that's out there which talks about this. And a big influence for me was a book by Daniel Pink called Drive. I don't know if you've read it, yep, and it was kind of one of those books where you know, as you're reading it, you're just going yes, yes, yes, yes, this guy's on the same page as I am. He's there. This is great. And you know there's a few differences that I have in terms of what he's produced. But you know, I would definitely direct anybody to kind of read or listen to that section of my book. But let that open the doors to all of that. Daniel calls it intrinsic motivation, I kind of call it identity-based motivation. But it's things like within. Within that is. Yes, you know, we all know that we need autonomy. Well, we all know that if we part of, we've got to choose our own. You know our identity. But if I think about, like my, um, uh, you know the roles that I give myself outside of of of work. So you know, or that I've been, you know, whether that's as a son or a spouse or, you know, or a parent or a guardian, or as a sports coach. You know, there's a key factor in all of this, which you know, if you're an engineering manager or if you're an operations manager, that you can, you know, this might help sort of you know, maybe some pennies to drop is that, within the minds of all the people that work for you, they have an idea in that all of these roles that they adopt, I would put good money on the fact that none of them want to be bad at what they adopt. So I don't want to be a bad son, I don't want to be a bad spouse, I don't want to be a bad father, I don't want to be a bad sports coach. I don't want to be a bad business coach. I don't want to be a bad business coach.

Speaker 2:

In my mind, I've got this idea I want to be, I want to be good at it, and it helps formulate who I am as a, in my identity, and from that I draw motivation. You know, gets me out of bed every day, and so on and so forth, and I think, I think that's something that I wasn't taught as, as in the early part of my career. You know it was all about systems and processes and so on and so forth, and I think that, just as an isolated lesson, or as an isolated kind of understanding is, as you look at your team if anybody's listening to this, they've got their earphones in or otherwise just look around the office, look at all of the people you've got there and in their minds they have this pre-programmed idea of wanting to be good at the thing they've decided to do. You've got to embrace that. You've got to allow it and that's a concept you know, skills and versatility, matrix and otherwise to allow people to get better and become good at what they're doing.

Speaker 2:

But within there lies a real kind of kernel of truth that, if you want to elicit motivation and what I mean by motivation is, you know, this is not about control and compliance. This is not about you come in, I'm going to pay you to do a job and you better do the job from when you come in to when you leave. This is about how do I inspire motivation, how do I elicit, you know, that drive that people have to want to be the best at whatever they're doing, and you know the proficiency aspect, allowing people to get good at what they do requires something and it requires being allowed to make mistakes, because you only get good at what you practice and you are terrible at whatever you practice from the start. And I think that's something that I've certainly learned as a junior football coach. Is you know how to kick a ball? As a junior football coach, is you know how to kick a ball? How do you kick a ball? Well, unless somebody tells you and then allows you to practice at kicking that ball, you're never going to get good at kicking a ball. So they've got to be able to make mistakes, but do it in a safe environment, you know.

Speaker 2:

And another great model that we all know, you know the Maslow's hierarchy of needs model. It's true, it works. You know there's a lot of criticism. I've read a lot of criticism about it over the years, but it's a model that's what 80 years old, and it's true. People need psychological safety. From psychological safety, they can be allowed to make mistakes. If they're allowed to make mistakes, they'll get better at what they do. Because they get better at what they do, they'll develop a sense of identity. Because they've got a sense of identity, because they've got that sense of identity. They will derive motivation from it and you can apply that motivation whatever it is you do as an organization, as a team or or otherwise. So a long answer to a simple question, but I would definitely focus on the identity based motivation aspect of the book interesting if I think of um things we've implemented.

Speaker 1:

Change, change here over the years. Some have stuck and some have embedded into our daily habits where others, and probably most, haven't, and they're often sometimes the ideas I've been quite excited about and, on reflection, probably haven't pushed them as hard or been consistent hard. Why do some processes stick and some just fall by the wayside?

Speaker 2:

uh.

Speaker 2:

So I think it's there's. There's a kind of a. There's a process that we, that we kind of go through. Um, you know there's a lot of, there's a lot of kind of change models out there, but I think it's called the, the. The ad car model is is something that's really interesting and you know. Or the cubler has changed curve model. You know those types of things, those models. So you know, rather than the, the kind of cotter's eight steps or anything like that, which is about sequencing, there's, there's other change models out there which describe the kind of the, the, the process of how we think about the thing we need to do, and ultimately it's about outcomes, right.

Speaker 2:

So when you look at this, the outcome that you want for the organization or the business in inverted commas might not be the outcome that, as a person, they're seeing any benefit for. So I think this is, you know whether you call it kind of a win-win, and there's lots of kind of traditional ways to describe this. But again, if I just point towards the sort of identity piece, you need, like a meaning or a purpose about why do I need to do this and what does that mean for me. So there's the what's in it for me, stuff. You know that which is kind of points to this direction. But if you can connect, if you can connect your businesses, you know whether that be a vision or a mission or even just a rationale for why the business exists or why the business exists or why the organisation exists and what part they play, if you can connect that with their own sense of meaning, that'll be the things that will stick. When there's no meaning at all, it will, of course, just start to drift because it will just go to the back of their minds and other things will take over.

Speaker 2:

So I think there is a process that there's a, there's a, I think, kind of. When you understand it it seems very straightforward. But when you kind of start to implement this, initially it can seem a little bit alien. But you do genuinely need to think about, um, um, the start with why stuff, what, what is it? This person you want this person to fill out this form every day? Why? If you can help them make the connection, doing that does this, which gives this, which allows you to be what you want to be, and you being what you want to be helps the organization achieve its place in the world. Well, that's quite a simple process and I think quite often we follow a compliance route.

Speaker 2:

Um, you know, I know people whose job it is to be an auditor, which is just to go and check that people are doing what they're supposed to be doing. Well, what if you didn't need to do that? What if you didn't need auditors and inspectors? What if they just happen because people can make, can make all those connections themselves. So I think in there's probably the, the answer to your question. Some of the things that you'll have implemented just happen because people can make, can make all those connections themselves. So I think in there is probably the, the the answer to your question. Some of the things that you'll have implemented will stick because it means something to them, and other things I'll just be like I've got no idea why I need to do that, and then, and so they'll just the first opportunity, just put it to one side and wait for someone to come along and maybe check if they're using it or not can.

Speaker 1:

you can use a real life well, a pretend real life example. If there's an NGO manager driving to work now and their boss has said to them, look, we need to reduce our downtime. Our downtime is just way too high, Reduce it. And their job is to try and change something or motivate the team to do that, what will be the first steps they need to take to start to implement that? Let's say they understand what the process is actually going to be. How are they going to motivate the team to do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think in a very generic way, I would just get the team in and I would have a discussion with them about values and beliefs. It's as simple as that, you know. So I've kind of you know at a personal level. However, you facilitate the conversation. What are you doing here? And I think, what will derive from that conversation? If you've got a low trust environment, that will be a really difficult conversation. But just having the conversation will start to build trust.

Speaker 2:

But if you can get to a place of enough trust, if the trust bank or the trust vessel has been filled far enough, what you'll find is people will start to express why they're doing the job they're doing. And for some people and it comes back to this kind of concept of identity for some people they need to pay the mortgage. Well, why do they need to pay the mortgage? They need to pay the mortgage because they've got a family that lives in that house, so they've got a role associated with that. So if you can tap into you know and I am stereotyping now, but maybe you know a younger generation that have got some you know ambitions about what they want to achieve in life, you can tap into that as well. So if you speak to all of these things and you can kind of understand what are the kind of values and beliefs and have a very open and honest conversation, you can start to understand what the real shared values and shared beliefs are within the group. Now, if you find that what's there isn't what's needed, well, just like in any kind of problem-solving process, you're probably quite close to root cause. Now. So if you can address that root cause compliance, if you want to use that word of you know, maybe doing the preemptive maintenance they need to do, or for you know, for the people on the production lines to maybe run the machines in the way they need to be run, or otherwise, if you find that they've got. You know, some people might say it's the wrong attitude, but the attitude is derived from something and it's derived from values and beliefs and what I would call programming, which is how you interpret those values and beliefs and apply it in a particular situation.

Speaker 2:

And although it might sound a bit woo-woo and it might sound a little bit kind of you know, I would need to be a psychologist to do this. I honestly don't think you do. I think if you can sit there and have a really honest conversation just about values and beliefs and where people are coming from, and then say, right, okay, so now we're all in this together and we need to achieve that. How are we going to do that? And what that does. It speaks to the kind of autonomy that you need, because you give them a decision. If you want to continue to fulfill your role outside of work or in work, or to be you know your ambition of where you wanted to need to be right now, we need to get there. How are we going to do that? And and what you will find?

Speaker 2:

What I always find and this is this is, honestly, without fail, I would I would say, um, as a group, at an individual level, sometimes people don't get there fast enough, but as a group, without fail, you will suddenly find an increased level of motivation and an increased level of engagement in order to move in that direction.

Speaker 2:

And I think the biggest, single, biggest advice, a single bit of advice that I could give to people is and this is kind of you asked me a question earlier on about you know, what have I learned about myself, even if you can tell that they're not moving in the most optimum direction, even if you know they should be doing things in a different direction.

Speaker 2:

Just let them have the arc, let them make the mistakes themselves, let them learn themselves, because once they've learned it themselves, it'll stay in and it'll be there forever, whereas if you tell them and it's just about compliance, it won't stick. So if you're an operations manager, if you're a, if you're a manufacturing engineering manager or otherwise, don't think about the um. You know how often do you? Uh, you know you need to change the filter on the motor so that doesn't overheat. You know how often do you? You know you need to change the filter on the motor so that it doesn't overheat. You know none of those things. Just get the people in who are responsible for that and have a conversation with them about their values and their beliefs.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, that's a great, great, great answer. Do you see anything changing with you know? You look at AI and automation now obviously it's changing every industry and you look at that will obviously drastically change the processes of the ways we certainly do things. Do you see that changing any of the models or mindset of leadership moving forward in manufacturing?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, absolutely I do. I think you know I have a. Really I have a real concern about the rate of change and the rate of improvements. You know I think we've had over the years I can certainly remember in my career, you know we've.

Speaker 2:

I think AI as a term has been around for a long time. You know these kind of false storms where this is going to change everything, and so on and so forth. I can, I can remember quite a lot of them. I mean, you know, I am of a certain age where I can remember the, you know, where we thought that all computers were going to stop on on the millennium because there was a, there was a problem with the clock, and you know all this type of stuff and it's been all this type of thing. Um, but I, I, I just, I mean, I use, I use uh, ai myself and I am absolutely, uh, amazed by, by its power and I do, I do worry, um, and it is a worry, it's not just a concern the rate of change over the next, you know, even just the next two or three years.

Speaker 2:

You know I've got a 14 year old in in in senior school and I think by the time she leaves school, or certainly by the time she leaves college, the world of work will be unrecognizable to what it is now. So I think there's a lot of people who are in task-driven roles where they're doing something which has got the potential to be done by automation and AI, and I think those people could be worried, and I would be worried If I think about myself. Somebody asked me the other day would I describe myself as a thought leader? You're kind of in that type of and I don know, I don't know if I, if I, if I am or I'm not. I think the price of knowledge has approached zero, if it's not already at zero. You can find out anything you want to find out, and so it becomes about the, the application of of of that knowledge, and so I think I think leadership, um, right now is is good, is it's going to go through a turbulent time, because there are going to be opportunities to um to look at the workforce and we can say, okay, I've got a team of 12 people and um AI can either replace them or it can enhance them, and so I think it brings with it an opportunity. And so what I hope and what I would if somebody was asking me for my advice, or maybe it's just a hope that I harbour. What I hope we would do as a society is we would look at all these people and we would say look, the business is already profitable with these people in it. I'm not going to take the mindset of removing people so it's more profitable. I'm going to say how can I keep these people? Knowledge is, you know, the price of knowledge is going to be zero or, if it's not already zero, how can I use ai so that they can do more? And they can do something that actually speaks to them as individuals and helps them achieve what they want to achieve, as as as this sense of identity that they, that they have, and I think that would. That brings with it a huge opportunity, and it's, but it's not one that you can chart a path through. It's it's.

Speaker 2:

There will be mistakes that will be made. Um, people will be scared. People will be, uh, full of fear. What does this mean to me? You know I've been doing this job. You know I've been doing the same task for the last 10 years and now you want me to do something different. I don't know what that means to me, leaders are going to have to help people through that while also navigating their own change, where they are no longer kind of coming into work to make sure that people are doing what they're doing. They're now coming into work every day to see how people are using this wonderful technology that we've come up with to enhance what they do and make the organization better as a whole. So I think certain people you know, maybe creative thinkers will arrive at a workable solution faster, but it is undoubtedly going to change and I don't think that's going I don't think that's kind of, you know by 2035 or 2045. I think this is actually going to happen a lot quicker in the next few years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree, completely agree. Just fine, dan, if you could, if you could leave the listeners after this episode with, um, the single biggest sort of mindset shift that you'd want to them to have. What? What would it be?

Speaker 2:

I I'm often wary of saying this, but it comes from a really good place, and the reason why I'm wary of this is, well, I'll just come out with it. So I think the mindset shift it was best described at thinking about people as human beings and not about human resources, not about human resources. And I think you know again, I've you know when I started work, I remember the first factory I went into. It didn't have a human resources department. It had a personnel department and human resources was then the next thing and it was kind of a big thing. And so there'll be a lot of there might be people listening to this podcast and they will be human resource managers or human resource directors and that might just be a title, but I think there's something within that which betrays the thinking that was around about the millennium, which was about changing it to a human resource and thinking of people as resources or thinking about people as assets, and I think what I would encourage people to do now is that was absolutely a necessary part of the evolution of how we should be working as a society and working as organizations.

Speaker 2:

But I think now it's about realizing that people are human beings and it's a state. It's a state of being. It's not something that belongs to an organization. The organization is built, is constructed of human beings. It's just a collective. You know, mark, if you and I wanted to get into business together, the organization would only exist because you and I are in it. It wouldn't be because we've got an office block or that we've got. You know, that we've bought some software that can automate what we do. The thing that makes it an organization is you and I. We are the organization right, and so I think changing your mindset to see people as beings and not resources or assets is the mindset shift that I would offer and ask people to adopt.

Speaker 1:

Great answer. And what's the best way to find you? And can people already listen to the book then or download a book where we ask?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, absolutely. So. I have got a website. It's focuspotentialuk, so not coukuk, just dot uk. Um, you can certainly go on to there and that's the best way or the easiest way to reach me. I'm also on linkedin. I'm on linkedin as daniel stanway, so I use the name that my mum uses, but you know I go by the name of uh, of dan.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, reach out to me on linkedin or go to the website, and you know all the contact details are on there to reach me look, it's been amazing, man, I think you know, if I think about my takeaways, I think that the overriding thing for me and this is probably a mishmash of all the stuff you said all together is that human being element of it. And I think one thing that when I've been listening to you I'm thinking it's still that I need to get better at it's still that human being approach actually, because, in terms of what does it mean for them? Because I think sometimes as a leader, we get so excited about the outcome and what it should mean for the business, which obviously should mean they will benefit, but how well do we communicate that down to them? And actually how well do we involve them in that decision making process and, like you say, create a, a safe environment for them to to make those mistakes?

Speaker 1:

I think what's interesting for me when you're talking about that AI piece, is it just hammered home how important that human connection still is.

Speaker 1:

Because you're absolutely right, I can now get on the chat, gpt, and say make me this or give me something which is going to motivate my team, and I could send them that and that still wouldn't motivate them, but I could put either.

Speaker 1:

If I felt confident enough I could do it, or I could put someone like yourself in front of them, and that would motivate them so much more Because we are as humans. The information has been valuable for years, ever since the internet is there. It's just quicker now to get there via chat, gbt. It's always been there, but I still think, as leaders, we need to understand that importance of us and the role we play in motivating people and creating those environments to make them flourish and progress, and I think this has been a real important episode for me to be involved in, listen to, to really hammer that home, because it gets back to your point right at the start in terms of that responsibility and privilege of being a leader, and we are in those roles. We've got to embrace it. So, yeah, I want to thank you, mate, and that really important takeaway to me. I'm sure everyone will take something similar as well it's been a pleasure mark it's been.

Speaker 2:

It's been so fun as well. I'm so glad that we just free wheeled this absolutely thank you, mate.

Speaker 1:

We appreciate it yeah great stuff, thanks mark thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the manufacturing leaders podcast. Please just like or subscribe. It really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about theo james, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team. I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums on seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help them through their lives and, ultimately, I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon.