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Manufacturing Leaders
Currently the Number 1 Manufacturing Podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts!
Mark Bracknall, Founder of Theo James Recruitment is the host of Manufacturing Leaders.The UK is still a powerhouse in Manufacturing & Engineering. We speak to those who are helping to make those firms a success. By motivating, inspiring and managing teams.Are you new to management? Are you keen to hear from those who are dealing with the same day-to-day challenges you are facing?In this podcast we get inside the minds of the Managers in Manufacturing & Engineering, and understand how they get the best our of their teams and make Manufacturing & Engineering great.
Manufacturing Leaders
Don't wait for your boat to come ashore, swim out and reach it - from Apprentice to M.D
Matthew Pemrick, Managing Director of Cicor, shares his inspiring journey from apprentice to business leader. He explores how endurance sports like Ironman have shaped his approach to resilient leadership, building inclusive teams, and creating a positive, connected workplace culture.
In this episode, we cover:
From factory apprentice to MD: Matthew Pemrick shares his leadership journey and lessons learned.
Endurance sports & leadership: How Ironman training shaped mental toughness and business resilience.
Building inclusive teams: Creating a 50/50 workforce naturally—by hiring the best, not by design.
Culture of connection: Leading with visibility, empathy, and a fear-free, people-first approach.
Purpose-driven action: Supporting apprenticeships, communities, and continuous improvement, even in downturns.
"Don't wait for your boat to come ashore, swim out to reach it."
#LeadershipJourney #ResilientLeadership #InclusiveWorkplace #EnduranceMindset #BusinessResilience #FromApprenticeToLeader #IronmanMindset #WorkplaceCulture #PeopleFirstLeadership
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Hi Beth, you all right. Hi Mark, how are you? I'm so sorry, mate. I've been sat here thinking, oh, I've got a bit. I thought it was 10 o'clock, I don't know why. Oh, sorry, apologies for that. They got your email. I thought shit. So I was actually sat here at quarter to just doing a bit of prep, so apologies for that. I was just sat here at quarter two just doing a bit of prep, so apologies for that.
Speaker 2:I was completely. How are you? You all right? Yeah, I'm not too bad, mate, not too bad. It's race week this week, mark, so I'm oh, is it? Yes? First race of the season. So I've only got two races this season, so when have you got it?
Speaker 1:then? Sunday, it's actually back in Bolton.
Speaker 2:so it's Bolton half Ironman Nice, and that's the only prep race going into Leeds Again. All the mark. I can't reduce the intensity.
Speaker 1:Recovery time, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, fair play If you're. If you train, it is a half Ironman. That's a decent bit of training. That, to be fair. Alright, just struggling with the run.
Speaker 2:I'm down to just one run session a week, really, if I just base the bike a bit longer. So that's the plan, I think just survive the swim, have a proper good go on the bike and then swim, bike, run.
Speaker 1:That order, is that what? It is swim, bike run yeah, get the wetsuit off. So right, okay, imagine you even got to train that getting your wetsuit off and all that, yeah, transition practice.
Speaker 2:I've not quite mastered that yet, but we live in hope.
Speaker 1:Do you have a time you want to get, then in that sense, and whatnot?
Speaker 2:It's a bit difficult, matt, because I'm usually around about sub-five, slightly sub-five it depends on the course. I mean, I've done bone before. It's actually quite a fast course. It's got some holes on it, it's just. You know, my half marathon, at the end I'm usually running 138, 137. I'm going to be nearer to 150 this time, purely just because I can't run as quick you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's cool. My half marathon time is 1 38, but that's that's without any swimming or cycling, it's all right, it's decent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's 4 39, 4, 39 kilometers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it was, I think it was. I think it's bang on 4, 37 it's. Uh, that was. That was the um great north run. I've got it right again. Um, I did one. I did one of the weekend. It was was 440. I felt weight makes a difference, doesn't it? Because I sort of go up and down a little bit and when I'm lighter, such difference.
Speaker 2:It does. I'm actually it probably does with running. I'm actually coming into this, this Ironman with the. I mean Leeds is my big race in seven weeks time, which is the full distance. I'm actually coming in slightly heavier, yeah, and I've changed my nutrition Right, and I'm kind of. It's weird when you get into the intricacies of it. One of my mates is a nutritionist, so he's all this starve yourself and get your weight down is the wrong way to do it. You know what you actually want to do. Your carbohydrates is basically your reserve tank. Yeah, If you've had that you want to burn is basically your reserve tank. Yeah, it's your fat that you want to burn off first, and so I'm probably about two or three kilos heavier than usual.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, yeah, nice, it's the nutrition stuff that I'm uh, I'm passionate fitness. But if I, if I was to be anything by this, it'll be, it'd be nutrition, because I love I've just obsessed with that. Like me, I think it's uh, it's fascinating. The first time I ever carved up for a run, I just thought this can't be right. Like you feel like a house, don't you?
Speaker 2:and then when you are doing it, you don't feel.
Speaker 1:You feel the benefit, but you don't feel, right, is it?
Speaker 2:but it's, it's important to you know, the other is it's great eating cows or you gotta get your um, you gotta get your fluids in and you know I did sweat test and I've actually effectively got to put a litre of fluid in every hour because I'm a sweater.
Speaker 1:Ah, that's me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've got to get a litre of fluid in but I've kind of a lot of my carb intake. Now I do via. You know it's called Stryker Stryker and it's like. It's like basically a mix, you know. So it's like a mix, it's not solid, it's all liquid and it's great. It's been a game changer for me.
Speaker 1:Has it Interesting that when I did the ultra marathon, my big problem it was 26 degrees, but my big problem was cramping because I'm a big sweater. I was screaming agony without bad. I did that sweat test. Is it pH nutrition? I forgot which it was, or pH hydrate sweat test.
Speaker 1:Is it ph nutrition I've got, which was there was a ph hydrate. Yeah, that's the black sort of brand. I did that and um, and I kept right at the top of scale and I had to take all them salt tablets and stuff and I was just I was just chewing them every, I mean whatever and stuff, but I still just it just destroyed me. That the cramp, it was just it.
Speaker 2:Just it ruined my race actually I didn't enjoy a second of it, but I'll try that then. It's all about the build up as well. I mean the first thing. I mean I like my fruit. Most of us think eating fruit and everything is fantastic and it's great for fibre. You know so when you're building up to a race, but basically after Thursday, that's it, you cut your fibre out. All this kind of stuff. For 10 years I've been doing wrong. You know it's mad.
Speaker 1:All these Ironman, zia gone, pile thing, all this rubbish, all these sciences yeah, five minutes.
Speaker 2:I mean you're stopping, stopping to use the lube when you're in the middle of stuff again, you, it takes longer to get your to do what you need to do.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, no let us know you get on me. I'd I would. When I've got more time, I would to train. I guess I'd love to swimming. The swimming thing would be the biggest issue with me, because I can swim. I'm not a good swimmer, I hate swimming.
Speaker 2:I've absolutely hated it. It's just the case of going to. You know it's the shortest into your race. You go in, you do and just get done. I don't enjoy it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm happy, yeah fair play to you now well, that's let us know you get on me. I'll be looking forward to it and I've got it. I've got these notes when we spoke about we'll bring it back. It'd be good to chat through that a little bit in terms of when we get into it. Yeah, in terms of what you take from that and how you transfer that mindset into because I'm a massive believer as well, and I've got the notes we I'll send you as an as a guide I'll use as a guide.
Speaker 1:We'll just have a chat through. Is there anything else that sort of sprung up in your mind to think, oh, I, I want, I want to make sure I talk about that or anything you want me to segue into no, no it's.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm, I'm happy, you know. I mean I've actually had a quick chat with a couple of the ladies at work. I said, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna touch the subject. Nobody wants to touch, like you know this.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, what you do, yeah um, but the reason I did it mark was just to try and get a.
Speaker 2:I said look, you know, this is my, uh, this is how I see it. And they, they said the worst thing you can do is talk about because I said I'm right, I'm really proud that we've got four ladies on our team, four men. They said, but why? And they're absolutely right, they don't a lot of they don't say it. I think they've kind of and they've said we've gone beyond that now. We've gone beyond the International Women's Day and men saying I can't have an international man's day I think we've gone beyond it.
Speaker 2:now it is.
Speaker 1:You've made it normal, haven't you? The difference is you've made it not a thing, which in itself is impressive, because companies need to make it a thing to try and balance it out. You've just made it normal, which is great, it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is, it's normal and, like you said, it's. I mean, I've got all the stats because you have to do all the pay gap stuff and we're actually, we, actually we're negative. So we actually pay a female workforce more than we pay our men. Yeah, yeah, it's not by design, it's just kind of just the way it's happening.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's it. But I I think it's a fascinating conversation because there are a lot of companies, that which just go how'd you do that, do you know? I mean, like it's just, yeah, it's just one of those and it isn't. There's no silver bullet, is there?
Speaker 2:no, no, it's just, yeah, just your judgments and get on with it. Really, yeah, exactly you don't need people to tell you what what you know, what's the right thing to do, and I think that's not the key thing. I've turned out the conversations exactly that um, do you?
Speaker 1:so what I tend to do, matthew, I tend to record the um intro at the end when you I just summarize after you've gone. Basically I record it separately. So when I start I just sort of go straight into it almost really and, uh, just briefly introduce you is best, md of psycho, is that the best way? Or anything else? Anything particularly want me to introduce you of jim and d, what's best?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, just um.
Speaker 1:And these cc car, c car, yeah yeah, so, um, cool, okay, now I'll let you probably talk a little bit about the business as well. Some some say it'd be good for people because some people might still know it as tt and whatnot, so it'd be good to sort of say that. So, um, um, seacore, right, I'll tell them. Since I go right, okay, um, perfect, well, I'll just start when you're ready, matthew. That's okay, mate. Yeah, no problem, matt, thank you excellent. Well, a massive warm welcome say to Matthew Pemrick, the MD of Seacore. How do you, matthew, you all right, how things?
Speaker 2:uh, good morning Mark. Yes, I'm fine'm fine, good to have a chat, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're looking forward to it and obviously we'll get into it. But I've got you fresh in training on race week for your well, for your half Ironman in prep for your full Ironman. Is that right, is it?
Speaker 2:That's correct. Yeah it, bolton for one night only, quite literally. And then, yeah, seven weeks after that, I'm in Leeds for the full 10th Ironman. Last one done and dusted, that's. I'll just drop down to the shorter distances again.
Speaker 1:We'll see. Looking forward to getting into that. But look, first question is the same question I ask everyone that comes on what does it mean to you to be a leader, would you say?
Speaker 2:I think being a leader it's, um, it's one of those things where you get. It's a rare opportunity where you can get the the chance to inspire, develop people, inspire people and motivate people to, uh, be better than where they think they are at this moment in time. Um, and it's basically to say to them and give them that belief that the world is your oyster, but the caveats are that you've got to work hard for it as well. You know it's not the external environment and the world isn't fair, but the harder you work, the luckier you get. You know, and that's what I encourage everybody to do. You put the hours in, you put the hard yards in, you get the odd break now and again, but for me it's just to give people that belief that you know they can be if they want to achieve something, they can, and just help them, fill them little gaps that they do have. And that's, you know, I was very lucky, mark.
Speaker 2:Very early in my my working life they had a fantastic from the first boss, um, and he, he gave me a couple little mantras to take away. He's probably might bring a good theme here. I throw a little couple of quotes in. But he just said to me. I said live one one day as a lion, don't exist 100 years as a sheep, and I've always remembered that and that's what I try and tell people. You know, know you're responsible for your own path in life, but I think along the way people can help you, and that's what I think being a leader is is to get people convinced that they can achieve what they want to achieve, and that's why I like leading people.
Speaker 1:I've never heard that mantra. I love that. I think that's amazing and for me, it almost highlights probably the key difference between a manager and a leader, because everything you're talking about there is creating, I guess, new creating managers, and then creating leaders and adapting their path where they want to be.
Speaker 2:Essentially, yeah, I think people have natural talent, don't they? People have to work really hard at things to get there, which is great, but people are naturally quite decent. What they've done is it might be late in some of the skills that they have, and it's just teasing them out and helping them along the way. And, like I said, nobody's perfect. And I think that's one of the other things I'd say to people is don't let perfect get in the way of progress. Just, you know, you make mistakes.
Speaker 2:I've made a career out of making mistakes. I've dropped some proper clangers all over my working life and I've never made the same mistake twice. And that's how you learn and move on. And it is getting people to be brave and encouraging people to be brave. And you know, really, you know attacking things that they do, going at it full gusto and having the belief that, um, that they can do, and that that's that's you know, you? You, as you go over your working life, your mindset does change, you know. I mean, I'm not, I'm not in it for myself anyway, don't get me wrong. I first started I was uh, you know, I'm a young family. I wanted to crack on and and get as far up the ladder I could, but now I get more joy out of seeing the team that we have on the side and the team we build, get something out of it and progress and you know that's raison d'etre really.
Speaker 1:And I think that's where my experience changed, because a lot of what you're talking about there is you create environments where you're taking the fear out, because I think for many years, people there's probably some amazing people there who could have gone to do some great things but were just were stuck because the management didn't give them the autonomy or they were fearful of making mistakes. Have you, have you seen that change over time? Would you say?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. I mean when I first uh, I mean I think it depends on the company you work for I mean I'm really the organisation I work for now, Seacor, are absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2:They're Swiss owned and, you know, with our site in Hartlepool, they've been absolutely fantastic. It's been a game changer, this site, and again, they give me the autonomy to do things and basically, you know, they encourage that kind of thing. But you're right, it's the way things have changed over.
Speaker 2:I'm very lucky with the company, but I've worked for some organisations where and you can see it happening people are like throwing people under the bus to cover up mistakes or you know, there's that big turret swinging round and as long as you duck below the parapet, you know it'll focus on somebody else and it's just not. It's not a team, it's basically a group of talented individuals who are battling one another to make sure that they survive. And that's not what it is. It's not about survival. It's about being the best at what you can do and having an effective team being allowed to, you know, and having a workplace that's free from fear and driving in the same direction, where you're not scared of making mistakes and if somebody does, you get a problem-solving unit together and you're working as a team to put it right. You know, and as long as you don't bankrupt the business, you know, I encourage people to make the odd mistake and have it again Of course.
Speaker 1:How do you think you change that? Because I guess you know not every company has that culture but I imagine most companies want that culture. Certainly everyone wants to work in that sort of culture. I still hear about companies which are quite blame culture-esque and I think sometimes you get that from companies with high turnover staff where you know you don't get that level of sort of commitment and you do and they don't see their progression there. If you're a, you know I guess and it could be it you could compare potentially. You know, when you came into that business, you know it was a, a business which was obviously as it was, a buyout, was a different. I imagine that transition was because you wanted to come in and you wanted to to make things you want to be. What was that transition like and could you take any lessons from that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I was quite lucky when I was, because when Seacore bought the business from the TT Electronics as it was, so I was actually effectively hired by TT Electronics and I worked a six month notice period and during that time Seacore bought the company and so I've only ever known it as secor. But you can see that, you know, without uh wanting to speak um purely of the the previous owners, it was it'd been run down, you know. I mean, it was it'd been neglected.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, the people didn't feel part of something, they feel loved, they didn't feel, you know, as though there was something great going to happen In fairness the person who was an interim MD before me, who's actually an ex-colleague, believe it or not, and he did a fantastic job of getting the culture right, you know. So he made my. I mean, when I go into business, I've usually got to make it profitable, get the culture right, get people believing. But you know, at first he'd done the majority of the hard graph before I even arrived, so it was just concentrating on getting the financials right after that and just really building on the culture he built. But yeah, you can see the difference in the workforce. It's, you know, all they want is to feel part of something and they want to know that the parent group and the leadership team have gone and sat there. They actually, you know, do care about them and want the best for the business.
Speaker 1:We're custodians.
Speaker 2:I'm a custodian of this business. It'll be here a long, long time after I depart this mortal coil, but it's when it's a privilege to lead. You know the people on site and it's not something that you take for granted. You know it's been a fantastic journey on the SeaCorp. It's been fantastic for me as well. I love the North East, you know. I mean I've worked all over the world and the people here I'm not just saying it, they are the best, the best workforce I've ever had the pleasure of leading. They're absolutely and I've led some good ones, but they're brilliant.
Speaker 2:They do anything for you. They don't just crack on. All they want is for you to go around, say hello in the morning, ask your other grandchildren, you know little things like that. It's just that visible presence where you can go out and interact with them and just make might, you know, make me so more human, really and uh, and I've always done that, you know, always had a visible presence and I've, you know, I try and learn everybody's names, you know it's uh, you know I'm getting older. I forget the odd one and I'm quite lucky in harlepool, matt, because most of the ladies are how they call Beverly or Leslie, yeah, you bet you can't take it in right sometimes, but they are no, they're great and it makes me come into work.
Speaker 2:It makes me love coming into work even more than what I love coming into work anyway. It's just the reaction you get from people, particularly when you can watch lyrical with them and tell them how well the company's doing, which has not been the case really.
Speaker 1:I think you highlight such an important point there Because there's still a bit of fear, I think, between leaders who think they shouldn't get too close to their staff and they shouldn't you know, don't, dare you know be their friend and all this type of stuff. And I think I've battled with that actually for years because I thought, well, that's what you're reading books, yeah, no, you should be a clear line. But actually I think the minute you just start being true to yourself and if you're, if you're a people person, you're like people get to know them and they'll, and they'll walk up a hot call for you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I've always. I mean I was very lucky route to where I am now is probably different than a lot of people. I left school at 16 and my only dream at 16 year old, all I wanted to do was be a professional footballer. I was decent, but I lost confidence at the wrong time and I had a couple of bad breaks, got injured, and that were it. I had a couple of school ball trials somewhere and I could have got a YTS, but I was never going to make any money out of the game. And I, a couple of school ball trials somewhere and, and, um, you know, I could have got a yts, uh, but I were never going to make any money out of the game. And I was, um, well, so I was reasonable, I was one of david beckham, you know, and um, and so I went into, I've got a craft apprenticeship at edbro, which is in baltimore, which is my hometown, and um, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Speaker 2:So I was quite insecure or quite down, and the workforce in the 80s Mark was a lot different than it is now. It was brutal. It was brutal at times, but in a good way, but I think it stood me in really good stead in terms of having that empathic relationship with people you know, knowing what makes them take, knowing what, what they want, knowing how bad leaders and bad managers, knowing what they look like and the mistakes they've made. And I don't get over don't get me wrong, I don't get over familiar with with the team. I mean, you know it's.
Speaker 2:I respect the line, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a there's a line but, but you know where it is. But there's nothing stopping you from being friendly and just generally interested in what they do and what makes them tick. But I do think you can tell the difference between people who've come up via that route where they left school at 16, they've done the hard yards to the top and those who've probably got to learn the management style out of a textbook and can and it. And I can't quite understand why. That's me and you do what we do and we like being visible and we like what we like getting involved and it's, but it does make a big difference. Plus, you know you, you do know when people are having you over and you do know when people are. Generally they've done as much as they can, you know, but uh, yeah, and and and.
Speaker 1:For me, I think and this is why I like to do this podcast because there's still not enough awareness behind the amount of people in your position. You know MDs of amazing businesses in the northeast, and, and, and wherever, who have come from that route. Do you know me? I think people just are quite naive to facts. They just think, oh well, that they, they must have just come from university this and that and got into it. But now you know, I would say the bulk of the people I have on here, own businesses or empty businesses, have earned it from sweeping floors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I didn't necessarily sweep the floor when I was a kid. I did a lot of stuff when I was an apprentice.
Speaker 2:But I actually did sweep the floor as well. I mean some of the stuff I probably can't talk about. I mean some of the stuff I probably can't talk about. But you're right, and it's just how you adapt certain things and you learn all the time. And you know, I left school with a couple of I call them neurological problems. I've got dysgraphia, which is I can't write. I can write but it's I can't't. My brain is working way too fast for me. My handwriting's untel and I couldn't finish the exams. I got tired writing and so the advent of the keyboard and and laptops is great for me, because it's the big problem I had with the exams were we're not remembering stuff. It was like so finishing them. So but the I did after.
Speaker 2:So I did my apprenticeship, I went through the, the you know I did all the ONC agency, mechanical engineering, and you know I was bringing up a young family. At the time we didn't have two half pennies to rub together if anyone remembers what half pennies. And then the company put me through university because they saw something and I went and got a degree and that's like the door opener, if you like, to all the other things that happen. But there again I had to work in eight till five, and then six till nine, three days a week. I were at university. So Monday, wednesday, friday you know I'll bring up a young family and I was studying three days a week. I was at university. So Monday, wednesday, friday, I was bringing up a young family and I was studying for nine hours a week as well.
Speaker 1:And that's how you've got to do it, haven't you? Of course, yeah, you have. But do you think that hard work, resilience, skill set is starting to diminish a little bit, because that's the popular belief? I'm not saying that it's true, but that's what people say.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts? Regrettably, yeah, I do. I think you know a lot of people and it sounds awful. I don't want to sound like one of these dinosaurs who said you don't know how lucky you are or not, but I mean, I never got any study time at. You know everything after I was with me. It was like time at when I, you know everything after hours with me. It were like, you know, we were six, you know, working after hours. Sorry, I was studying after I was, uh, doing it all in my own time.
Speaker 2:And people nowadays, for example, they get time off work, they get study leave, they get um if they work, if they go to night school. They don't have to come in one day. So it's all geared up for people to make it a bit easier than what it was back in the 80s and 90s, you know, and so, yeah, but I think probably that built that with that little bit of resilience. Yeah, I do feel as though that that's something that's not as a manufacturing nation, but even as a nation. We're just losing that resilience because life isn't, you know, it's not fair out there, it's not a fair world, you know, and wrapping people up in cotton wool and isn't necessarily the right thing to do.
Speaker 2:You've got to get, get a few knocks.
Speaker 2:You can't, you know, give up at the first knock back.
Speaker 2:You have, and, and you know, because other nations aren't going to be doing it, you know, just talking about the british nation, um, can you imagine, like you know, saying I can't do that in an american, with an american company, because they just won't buy it, you know, and so if you, and so I do, I do for, don't get me wrong, there's some people who are really resilient out there uh, but I do think I do think it's weighing, but I don't think it's too late to rest it.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying going back and and like flogging yourself uh to death, like, like we might have done when, when we were doing it, probably a bit older than you, when, when I was doing it, I'll be a bit older than you when I was doing it. I won't, but but I do think you appreciate it more as well. I think when you, when you've had to graph like that and you've had to put the hours, and I think you appreciate, uh, what you've got that little bit more and it's not, it's not been handed on place, you've actually earned it you know 100.
Speaker 1:It gets back to what you said right at the start, matthew, that the the harder you work, lucky you are, because I just think that's so true, that quote, because we can do everything. You know that, yes, work-life balance, you know, yes, all this, you know we need to do everything we possibly can do to to make sure our mental and physical health is better. But actually, but it still gets back to you've got to work bloody hard to get where you want to be and that that will always be the same. However, it is which I guess links in with that and I completely agree with you on that resilience piece.
Speaker 1:Um, one of the reasons I've always been really into me fitness but actually punishing myself, if you like, on the fitness. Do you know what I mean that? And always weekly trying to do something where that's cold showers or where that's my friends. It's because I've always been scared that I won't be resilient enough if I, if I need to be, if, in other words, if I, if I dig deep that my driver, if I have to, and when I have gone through situation business which have been difficult. I think you draw upon those days and those miles in the road and stuff. You've taken that one step further, obviously, and you know you've. You've obviously got a background in sport with your football. Yeah, is that always been important to you to have that, that balance and that element of it as well? I think so.
Speaker 2:I always put I, yeah, I, I think every leader or md or you know even manager, or every person actually and it needs that release from from work. Now, some people it might be, it might be their contentment is going home to, to, you know, family, and and you know when you, when you're younger, that it doesn't work like that. Um, for me, I mean I, I the thing that makes the way I'm wired is quite literally what you've just said there. Yeah, I need to to get myself fired up for the day and to to feel as though I've got something out of at the end of it. I need to go and beast myself in the swimming pool on a bike or running, and and it's thinking time as well in some respects, but it does it in your mindset as well it just makes you drive.
Speaker 2:It's both a performance, because I'm up and saying this year is a bit different because I'm injured and I'm an arthritic ankle and I'm kind of on the last dregs of what I can do. But it's always been about trying to get that perfect race to go one step better than what you did last time. I've never had the perfect race. If I've had a really good swim, really good bike, I'm usually top 10% in my age group as a word.
Speaker 1:I think I am so really good swim, really good bike really good run.
Speaker 2:I thought where have I lost five minutes? It's because I took too long. Get me a wetsuit off and and it's all that. It's all that practice on it. But it just gives you that release and you know I've had to with that. I've had to overcome a few things. Like you know, I've come off with bike. I've had my shoulder sewn back on I'm absurd. I've got pins all over the place and and a year later I was back out riding and and it was.
Speaker 2:I was really nervous getting back on the try bars for the first time and you know it's a pothole came off and three weeks out from a race or in the best shape of my life, but a year later I had to get back on it and force myself to, even though I was every you know 50 year old bloke and I'm you know why am I doing this? Why am I? You know I 50-year-old bloke and I'm you know why am I doing this? Why am I? You know I could come off again and could be game over. I've got grandkids now, all that kind of stuff, and you make yourself do it.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's like working to. You know, you try something, it don't work. Well, I'm not going to not try something again, you know. Or if I believe in that, I'm going to actually persevere with it, because I would just like something didn't work out the first time, I'd just tweak it and put some new tri-bars on, for example. But it's like, oh, I've tried that different technique of doing something in work, so it does correspond in that respect.
Speaker 2:But I think it is important just to clear your mind and give you. It gives me energy. It gives me energy which is counterproductive really, because you're absolutely killing yourself really. You're knackered when you're you've done. But it gives you the energy to come into work and do things. And the long days as well, mark. I mean I'm up at five o'clock in the pool for six in work, for eight. Uh, finish at six, get home, get out on my bike, get it for run for a couple of hours, come back nine o'clock. I'm eating, eating my tea or dinner, depending where you come from in the country, and then I have a chat with my wife.
Speaker 1:You know, and, but you know I'm very Discipline there and that's discipline which it is.
Speaker 2:It's such a transferable skill in the workplace yeah, but if you want to be the best at what you can, if you want to make the best of yourself and I'm never going to get a podium or win a race, but I will beat my times and that's what and it's that mindset. And you're right, it's about the discipline of being able to see something through, and that's the same with work, you know, and I've got loads of people helping me as well, so I want my wife's incredibly patient you know, she's best support crew ever. Um, I've got a bike mechanic, I've got nutritionist, I've got a physio and it's like what I've got here. I've got a leadership team who who help this business, you know. So the business in ironman's me, but the business here is the business and they're all. We're all working towards the same goal and so you can cross relate what you're doing. You've always got a team around you.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying and there'll be a lot of people listening to this. That might give two people a kick. I hope it has to go. I need to not necessarily do an Ironman. I need to do something. You're the extreme level which is brilliant, and you know, but not everyone people will strive for that. But you don't need to be that to get some of the benefits, do you? You just need to do something. What advice would you have to someone who you know we're going off piece there? We don't mind that, but just maybe want, who want, the benefits that others have got on that fitness side?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I mean, when I started I was, I mean, what made me do it? I played football. And you know, I mean, even though I carried on playing football up into I think 28 was when I had to finally pack it in. Then I followed around for a bit and I needed something. So I went playing golf. I'm not a very good golfer. I did as better, you know. But there again, I didn't let that deter me as well. I always thought I could win something, you know. But I mean, I ended up with a 16-odd cap or something like that, but it didn't really do it for me and it would just get into the point where I would just pile and wait on. You know, it's um. And I looked at myself one day in a mirror and I thought I'm not really happy with it and it would make me unhappy, you know. You. I thought what can I do?
Speaker 2:So I started with uh, I thought, right, I'm gonna just go out and have a run. And I did a mile, panting out my backside and and all I did, I just kept building up. I did a 5k apart run, I think my first time. I think we were 28 minutes from my first 5k apart run. Um, then I did a 10k and I thought what can I do? Next to me, my mother had been ill at this point. She'd she'd have breast cancer bless her, she's not with us anymore but and I thought I'm going to raise some money for charity because of the care that she had. So I said I'll do leads half marathon, you know, and never done anything before. And and I raised some money for the Christie, which is a cancer charity in Manchester, and, um, I raised about two grand for just because a lot of people didn't think I could do it. So so I did that half marathon.
Speaker 2:Then you just get addicted, you know what can I do next? I've done a half marathon, right, I'll, uh, I'll that half marathon. Then you just get addicted, you know what can I do next? I've done a half marathon, I'm right, I'll do a marathon. Right, I did a marathon. What can I do next? I'm going to do triathlon. I'm going to do an Ironman, you know, and never swam since I was a kid. I only breaststroke and that was it. And within, you know, and just did it, you know. And I think my first time were about 13 hours, 15. And you know, I'm doing it currently at 10 hours 6. That's where that's my. You know my goal now. It might not happen. It won't happen at least. But if I've got another one in me after this, then I'd love to go sub 10, because that's when you're real.
Speaker 2:That's when people nod at you when you walk into transition and all that kind of stuff. But so, so you've got. But anybody can do it, man. It's just putting your mind to it, believing in yourself and um and and not accepting. You know you have plenty of knockbacks, but you just keep going. You know, and that's what life's about, isn't it? You know, it's not fur out there. It's a bumpy road and you just ride the bumps and you'll get to your destination eventually.
Speaker 2:It's the journey that matters. Some of the time, it's not necessarily where you end up.
Speaker 1:That was completely great. You know what? I imagine the feeling you got after doing that first 5k will have been the same feelings you got when you did your first Ironman, because the goalposts have changed, haven't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you get little moments, like you know. I mean, I always remember, you know, that first time I went under 11, I was at an Ironman. The first time I went under 20 minutes on a 5k, I was like wow, wow, you know, I never thought you know, and that were only three years ago. You know and and so, and you can, you know, the older you I always say you could be like you either end up putting yourself on the shelf and vegetating and ending up, or you're like a fine wine, aren't you? And you mature with age and that kind of stuff. So, um, and you know, you just keep pushing yourself, you know, and that's what it's all about and I understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the fact. 20 minutes ago, you told me that this is your last one and you just said yeah, your next one after this.
Speaker 2:You told me it depends. It depends on my thought. I mean, I can only.
Speaker 1:I can only run once a week at the moment but you know what I mean 100% inbuilt habits and I'm exactly the same and I see my mental health dip if I'm injured or I can't do something. And absolutely, and you know it is.
Speaker 2:I did have a break once for a minute. I was remembering one of my bosses. He was actually a British guy who was based in the States and just a name on Italy. I think it was 2019 and I said right, I said I'm going to have a break and he rang me up a little bit and he said Matt, can you do me a favour? I said I'll finish. He said can you do me a favour? He said can you start training again? He said you've been a pain in the backside for a real worry since you stopped. We'll just start training again. You've got edgy, you know, it's all right.
Speaker 1:I'll get back on it. It changes a person in a good way, obviously when you do it. I completely agree. Thank you, flex. I want to pivot back to C-Club because obviously I think what you've done there is fantastic in such a short space of time. People locally probably will know that as TT, what are you most proud of out of all the things you've done and implemented and changed? What are you most proud of, would you say, out of all the things you've done and implemented and changed there? What are you most proud of, if you think about that as a business, in terms of what you've done?
Speaker 2:The Seacol. Yeah, I think the big thing we've really honed in on this year is we've I mean, what I picked up on in the North East like community, community and our community spirit is everything and it's lovely, you know, you, you it's, it's, there's a warmth there and we've done a lot more with in terms of trying to get involved with, with the community and um, for instance, you know, we, we sponsor two football teams now. Uh, we do an over 60s walking, walking, and we do the Hartlepool Schoolboys. You know these are the teams, but we just, you know the Seam Crew Cricket Club, which is just down the road, which you know they're looking for sponsors. It's right on our doorstep. So you know, we've sponsored them just to, you know, just to try and support them. But we do other things as well. You know we donated a load of lockers to Catamount. Uh, it's like special needs uh unit down the road, so we give them all these lockers. We, you know, and we, we do the veterans food bank collections. Uh, we do a lot for alice house. Um, you know we've uh do a lot for a lot of people in the area and um, you know, and I think we we've had a one of our young, young guys on site had an unfortunate accident which left him um not able to walk, and his positivity has been fantastic. Honestly, he's inspired the whole workforce with the ways he's tackled. I think the whole workplace got behind it as well. You know, and uh and but it that were nice and I think it's we give people all that stuff we do for the community and getting our name out. There is something we've built on.
Speaker 2:But I think, just how we're developing people internally as well, you know everybody's got a chance here. There's no favourites. If you're good enough and you know you will get looked after in that respect, as in, we will put you through courses, we will develop you, we will introduce you to the C-Corp team and let you do presentations and get exposure and all that stuff. And that's one thing C-Corp are really good at. You know when. You know when alexandru's I mean he's running a 600 uh million swiss frank business and he comes on site and he's just not, you know, and he loves people like doing presentations, seeing what they're working on and all that and that.
Speaker 2:And it echoes all the way through c car that they they the whole board and leadership team, that they're accessible, and most the mds, the four, you four, four others in the uk we're exactly the same, you know. We give every. You know everybody, everybody's got a chance of seacore, which is which is which is really good, and um, they treat every, you know everybody, exactly the same. You know, and um, and you get the. You know, and I think that's what it is. We've just embedded that culture where people can come up with ideas, no matter how mad, and we'll do it and it is.
Speaker 2:It's just yeah, I can't put it into words sometimes, max, it's been such a fantastic journey. I mean, we were losing money hand over fist when I came, but a lot of that weren't our fault. There was a lot of crap they were having to put away from group things and all that, and that's all been removed. So we, when people start seeing the sales come through and the results come through, and then they feel good about coming into work, they like coming into work. We've got some people who the 67 I was talking to she's been here 30 odd years and I said why are they not retired?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, holy damn it. So why would I love it? You know. I said, well, get me on, man, you know. And then she, really sorry, said you don't mind if I like, not me. I was, I've not me, I was down to like three days or something. No, it's fine, you know, and I think when they can have, it's that where they can have them conversations with you as well. I think that's where, you know, as a group and as a leadership team, the accessibility is fantastic and I think that's what one of the things we've really nailed.
Speaker 1:It's so good to hear. Because you know one thing that still makes me really sad if I'm, if I ever, anyone of any industry, just not moaning about the job, just not more about the job, because everyone, everyone knows about day, most about a job to some extent, when they really just live for friday. Do you know what I mean? So those people who literally just just enjoy the weekend and monday it's about getting through. It really makes me sad to see it because I just think it should never be like that. Um, and I hate it. I would. I would hate to think someone hates working for this business. You know, know it. Just it isn't right. That caused me physically to think that and you know it sounds like you share that belief and you try to make sure that environment isn't like that.
Speaker 2:No, don't get me wrong. I love my weekends more than anybody, but I'm not like you know, I'm not craving to get home. And you're right, it's, you know, it's. You know you're coming, you know and this is another thing. As a leader, I mean, yeah, if I've had a bad day at home, something's not gone right, you've still.
Speaker 2:It's your absolute um necessity that I come in and people don't know I'm having a bad day. You know I come in. I would be exactly the same. I might have gone kick the cat. I might have thrown my bike across the road, I might have kick the cat. I might have thrown my bike across the road, I might have brought the hoover because it's not working and and. But it's essential. When I come in, I'm positive. I have the same positivity on monday to friday, no matter what's happening. That's, that's something that that I've learned all the time. Is that, because people react if I'm having a bad day, you can guarantee that the business will have a bad day time. Is that, because people react if I'm having a bad day, you can guarantee that the business will have a bad day and people will be down and and I've noticed that a couple of times because, yeah, I've had to.
Speaker 2:They say dish out a few stern words, um, because that is still within, within the arm. I think that's still paramount as a leader. You've still got that in your armory. You can't be pink and fluffy all the time. You know, you've, you've got. If somebody needs calibrating or correcting, you've got to be able to do it. Not wait to the point where you're bullying, but to the point where it's very, very clear what, what? There's an expectation that's not been met, and and we could have met it. We couldn't, we could have, and and being able to do that and and get it right. You know, because you don't never raise my voice, um, you know, but there's, and I think there's a couple of them, a couple I've got. I'm blessed with a couple of really good, experienced leaders here as well who do exactly the same. You can just make people realize they've not quite my expectations, just with the way you look at you, just with the tone you use without raising your voice, and even the wording like I'm really disappointed. You know, and that has more effect than somebody ranting in their ear and and they respond to that. You know most and so it is. I think it's a dying art form that I think.
Speaker 2:I think it's difficult now in in society because everything's wrapped up in combo. The resilience probably isn't what it used to be. It's changed so much. The landscape, what the things you've got to, what the establishment think you need to take into consideration. We as leaders shouldn't be told you need to hire more of that person, more of that person as leaders of the business, you know what's right and wrong. You know what you, you absolutely, and most people, I think we're doing people a disservice. Um, when you know you say you, you know you've got to increase that core to do that. Do that, because most people I want to hire the best people for the job. You know and I said a conversation, I mean we're quite me for stats wise, let's this. They could all have to do the like. The gender pay gap reports and that kind of stuff. We've actually got a negative gender pay pay gap, which means we actually pay our female employees more than pay our male employees.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't know that until ruth gave me the numbers you know, I mean, it's not by design it's just where you people have got rewarded, because they got rewarded my leadership team for the stats wise, for asg metrics. So you take them off. I've got four people, I've got four males and some of you think that's great, that's great. And you know the ladies on the side. When I said, I said it's quite good, that isn't it, you know. And they said no, it's not Matt, no, it's not no. And and I said well, why, you know? And they said because it actually decries what we've done to get them, to get them. And they're absolutely right. They're all there on. All four of them are unmarried. I would hire all four again. I wouldn't have anybody else in them positions apart from them four and same with the books.
Speaker 2:You know they're all there on merit and just because inadvertently I've ticked a box is not by design, it's just happened because they're the best people for the job and I think that's really, and I think most business leaders actually get it. You know, we don't need talent to do that. We know what's right, we know what's legal, moral and ethical and that's all you follow. And I'm rightly proud of every one of my people in the leadership team because they've all worked really hard to get work out. Regardless of what the background is. All I'm interested in is what they're doing now and what they want to do in the future, and that's it. And and it might be controversial that, but you know it's uh, it, it, it were weird when I was talking to him and I was just like really, I really want to champion this and he said no, don't, don't, don't, we just want, we just want to get on, and it's brilliant and we're so refreshing to hear, because I know there's other organizations where it's people lose out and it's just. It's just even worse than, yeah, the other way we've all been.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've been having a role once, mark, where, um, I went down, uh, to take to talk about this role and and. And they said over, I want to send you off. And you know what's important is, you've got to learn some, some language skills. So I think, oh great, like you know what's important is, you've got to learn some language skills. So I think, oh great, you know, I'm reasonably fluent in French, spattering of Italian, and I'm thinking, great, you know. I said no, we want to send you to elocution lessons to get rid of your northern accent, bbc.
Speaker 1:So I didn't obviously didn't take the job.
Speaker 2:But it's always there and you know you did have that old boys network of people with ties and stuff.
Speaker 2:And I never got the chance of certain jobs because I came from the wrong side of the tracks. They treated it and if it's them kind of organizations would you want to work from anywhere? You know we're quite lucky at Seacock because you're allowed to put the right people in the right job, regardless of what, what box they take, and it's so refreshing to be able to do as well and and trust people. You know they're on merit, every single one of them, and I'll have them all in them positions again because they're that good you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's so refreshing to hear that and that honesty piece as well, because you're absolutely right and this is my issue with with all stuff like this, and we have companies who come to us and say we have this problem, statistically, we have this problem. What can we do but it? And I get, they're trying to solve the solution because of that gap. But I completely agree with your mentality and we're the same with 50 50 it's not by, it's not by design, it's just simply because you hire the right people for your business, yeah, and and and they, typically, because humans are humans, they should average out that they should be a an average of male, female, we all different race, all this type of stuff, because you just find the right people. So I I could not agree more because they're just coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do. I mean we do. You know. I mean back in, you know, probably the start of the turn of the century, there were a lack of females in the workplace, particularly manufacturing, you know. They offer such a great balance to to the workplace as well, but it's getting them in the right because they really want to do it. You know, I mean, I'm just going to think about it they do gravitate to certain roles within. Uh, I mean the last four fds I've had are all been ladies.
Speaker 2:The last four hr managers I've had various companies. They've all been feeling and the certain roles that that seem to get more more females in the males. You know they're bloody good at what they're sorry, they're really good at what they do, um, but it's not. But I think we've gone beyond that where we've, I think we encourage people in and if they're good enough they'll make it. And if, you know what, there's still organizations out there who don't do that and they won't hire on that, then that's their bad. You know, we'll learn. You know that's. I wouldn't want them to go and work for my daughters or my granddaughter to go and work for that kind of organization, rather than come to somewhere where they're going to get.
Speaker 1:They want to get on because they're the best at what they do, and I think that's what the majority of people want regardless of and this is my hope, because I think there's more, we're seeing more people like yourself now you know, in terms of who are in the right positions, the right companies, who are going to change things for the better. Because, I completely agree, there's been an old school mentality, manufacturing, you know, for far too long, of boards which are, you know, boardrooms which are just full of the same sort of people, the same sort of ideas are being the same sort of people on. So I think the more people that, the more we can just change that organically by just doing the right thing, yeah, the the better this sector will be, yeah, and and you're right, there's different mindset, there's a different mind, different people.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's your team. The only thing you want diverse in your team really is people's opinions, ideas in terms of yeah, and you know, you've got introverts, you've got extroverts, you've got creative geniuses who make a lot of mistakes and expect everybody to put it right, like me. And then you've got you've got like the real people, the real people who do all the grafting and um and and like put the color on on what you've come up with. You know, and so, and it's about getting that, that mixture of people where you can bounce off people. You know you can. I was thinking a little bit of tension's good. You know you're in a room and once you've agreed a path, you follow it collectively. You all go off that path.
Speaker 1:I think you learn, don't you, once you've got a diverse leadership team, that actually you need a diverse range of situations to get the best out of them. I think I fell in that trap of, well, we'll have a leadership discussion and actually you have the same people talk, because some people are quite confident talking not necessarily over others, but people in a group, other people they're actually better just walking around and have a chat. You know out the office and stuff and bring great ideas. That's a skill in itself isn't it?
Speaker 2:oh, it is and it's. It's great, and I think that that's the. You know, if we, that's the great thing about the way if you get the right workforce, you know your right workplace, the right mentality, where that that's what you can achieve, and we, we, and again, I think that's why we've been successful here over the the last 12 months, and a lot of work filled it before. It was about encouraging people to uh, to do um to. You know, do that kind of thing, have a chat.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's so one, I think, probably digressing a little bit here, but one of the things that does worry me, apart from the resilience, is the. You know, particularly the gen z's now is just the lack of social skill. You know basic soft skills. You know we've had a few instances and we're trying to. You know it's like keyboard warriors into. You know there's an email, everything and like you're just reading this.
Speaker 2:Know, it's like keyboard warriors, isn't it? You know there's an email, everything, and I'm like you're just reading this email, charlie. I'm like eventually just say, look, just stop, just all, come to my office, just come up, let's have a chat, yep, and they're like a quivering right, because they're not used to that little bit of like talking, you know, picking the phone up and having a conversation with somebody, and I think that it's a shame really, and that's society. It's not just the workplace, it's just society in general, where it's so easy to put things online and it's a bit misunderstood and then you know it's, and I always, you know people put themselves, you put an opinion up. I think there's a freedom of speech to debate it.
Speaker 1:You know it's and I always you know people put themselves, you put an opinion up, I think there's a free freedom of speech to debate it.
Speaker 2:You know yeah and and yeah. So that's one thing I've noticed as well, and it's just trying to get people to pick the phone up. We'll have a conversation, we'll have a coffee. Tell them what your problem is and you know what you'll soon find you sorted out and I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1:The situation is when we've had I've had my staff come and say is this email? I've got an issue with this client. I've just written this email. Look, okay, you know, give him a call, go and see him because actually if I was reading that email. I think it sounds a little bit arsy actually, but you're not meant to be arsy. Do you know what I mean? Because they can misconstrued things.
Speaker 2:It's uh hey, mark, I've done the same as I've done the same as when email first came out. You know, when you know the ability of the internet and everything first came out and you're all email and I noticed I was a lot more aggressive on them. So I've had to, you know, say, well, no, that's not the way to do it. You know, and you read it back you thought, oh no, why did I say that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and then I'm not going to say I'm entirely flawless, I might react and do things, but at least I recognised and I thought I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's getting back there. So it's like people on road rage in a car those sort of people that will beat behind a wheel actually normally particularly nice people but there's change, I completely agree. If you could last sort of question just I'm just keen on your thoughts on this and this is a bit of a holistic one. But if you could, I guess, waver, with all the issues, challenges and all stuff going on manufacturing, if you could waver magic one now to positively change the industry, what would you do?
Speaker 2:what would you do?
Speaker 2:I kind of release the fish moments, as one of my team would say, I'd just wear the magic wand. I wish we could just have a reset where people didn't think the worst of people, that they were doing things for the wrong reasons, that you had to do something to satisfy someone like you know where you could. Actually, we could just get it back to that, you know. Just, general fairness um, everything's based on merit. Um, you know you, everybody gets the same chances. Um, I wish that we still had a manufacturing industry in this country. I mean, I was around when, you know, I think you know, manufacturing was about 24% of the workforce and what we're down to, I think, in single digits now, aren't we, I suspect? I wish we produced, I wish we could make, I wish we made something again, you know, and as a nation, not just as where we, you know, because we are, I mean, all the great innovations in the manufacturing world and the industrial world have actually come from the UK. A lot of them actually came from Bolton, believe it or not. It was Samuel Crompton, you know. I mean he was a Boltonian, you know, and it's that I wish we were the pinnacle of that again. And you know, we've got a fantastic workforce in the UK. You know we've got. You know it's particularly in the northeast as well. You know, with all the industry that's gone here and people, and you know we never have any trouble filling jobs and that's because of that. You know that's a situation that's happened because the um, because of the, the decline in the manufacturing industry, which is, which is a shame, and I think that people of this area deserve a lot better because they really are the salt of the earth and I just wish we still have that.
Speaker 2:We, we built something, we made something, and I know they're doing a lot of stuff with the defense industry now, where they're increasing in GDP. You know the GDP. I saw the student app said so she'd be picking to it what they, but that'll go to if they carry on doing it. The way they're doing this is this is government spending and procurement they'll use the same monopoly of suppliers that they use who aren't efficient. They're great engineers but they're technically not.
Speaker 2:They've got all the kit in the world we're not naming any names but they've got all the kits in the world. They've got expensive, two million pound machines that cut metal, which could run lights out, and you could have two people running an entire bank of 24, because of trade union agreements, they've got one man or one person on each machine just watching Netflix all night, and that's how you get more out of the spend you've got. We just need a reset and just to realize what we're really good at and get back to them and get back to making things, and I think that if I had a magic one, that's what I'd do, and I just wish we still had an industry that we're not reliant on other people. You know we're self-sufficient as a nation and that's. I think that's that's what I yeah, I couldn't.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more, mate, and just very agree and just very. Finally, what's the next 12 to 18 months looking like at Seco? What's on the on the agenda?
Speaker 2:it's been a it's been a tough start actually, matt, for the year we've across the industry we're in, which is obviously the manufacturer of PCBAs. It's, I think overall the global outlook's been between 5% and 7% down, but we've supplied to one of the automotive customers in the area who is in the presses Volume's a little bit low on that. So it's been tough going for the first six months, but we've used that time not to mope around and say, all right, well, revenue's down a little bit. We actually put in the improvements and if we were in this situation last year, for example, we were losing money, whereas effectively now we've. If revenue being a million and a half down, we're actually breaking even. The revenue's coming in the second half of the year were um, and so the next six months are looking really, really good. Actually, we've got we've got full order books for the rest of the year and we've got a diverse portfolio of customers now as well. So it is, it is beginning you've seen signs it is beginning to pick up a little bit as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's exciting because you've just picked on that diversity piece. Well, that's that's why I still love this industry, because I've seen so many companies pivot and be agile and go. That traditional revenue stream is a little bit down. It'll come back up. What can we do? And I think this is why we'll come out a bit better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you're right. I think the important thing is, when you do have these low moments, is you don't react and then start cutting your cloth. You actually think, well, what's the future going to be like? I mean, I've run a business during COVID. I mean COVID were an absolute. You want things as leaders that they never prepare you for. That was one of them. I mean, how do you deal with a pandemic? I was quite lucky, as I was. We worked for a company that made parts of the defence industry, so we were in and that first few couple of weeks it was like they were accused of being a murderer. They were like, why can't we work from home? And I said, well, you can't. You know, and what I did as well, I made sure I was on site every single day.
Speaker 2:I do know some business leaders who it was the expected the manufacturing team to turn up and then work from home. You can't do that. You've got to leave by example, um, and it's them kind of things that that make you, make you different, but it just gives you a different set of skills and how to deal things. But if you can handle that and then you know you can't do anything, it's doing. But we during that time, coming back to the original point, I aggressive coming out, it's a point I kept the apprenticeship scheme going so everyone was like cutting and I said no, we are, we will continue to take apprentices on because we will have a part. We will come out of this and you know I'm an ex-apprentice so I'm deeply passionate abouthips. Again, I think it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. It's a great.
Speaker 2:You know, whichever government's been in has always championed apprenticeships over the over the last years, and it's a fantastic way to learn as well, because you can, you can, you can earn and learn at the same time and but it does put you through that, that path, and I just feel as though you can get people onto apprenticeships. We will do so. We've got I think we'll start about four this year. But back then in Covid I kept that scheme going over the two years. I said we are not stopping that apprenticeship scheme. And everyone said, well, how do we intervene? Oh, we'll do teams calls, we'll figure out a way to do it. And we didn't. You know what?
Speaker 2:they're all flourishing now and they got them breaks back then that they wouldn't do back now. So if we hadn't done it, you know you'd have another load of young people in our careers to look forward to, and so it's little things like that, where you use the bad times to make yourself better.
Speaker 1:I understand and thank you so much. There's so many. So, thank you so much. There's so many lessons in this episode and I've loved it because you are I hope you don't mind me saying a proper inspirational leader, and I mean that because I think what's hard to me is the importance of being a leader, because with people you've got to lead from the front, you've got to and I really really like what you said about that consistency consistency of mood, mood consistency every day, despite what's happening, because people do look to us daily to see and see how we're dealing with things.
Speaker 1:And I think the analogies from the, the fitness and the, the resilience piece, is so true because it even correlates exactly what you're talking about there where things things like COVID happen which completely change the game, all the things you go through, from running a race or your bike braking, your wet situation, all these little things where you don't just stop, you have to make adjustments and go again and do the best, like you said before, work as hard as you possibly can do to be as lucky as you can, and I think there's so many lessons in that for people to listen to, because some days we have our tough days. But it gets back to me that the position we're in is a position of responsibility and it's a privilege, and you've got to work through things, haven't you? Yeah?
Speaker 2:it will, and you've absolutely nailed it there with that last bit and you know the only other. If you want one last mantra, one little thing. This was from my first boss, who he gave me the line one, but he also said and this is important to anybody and it's about going out and getting things he said don't wait for your boat to come ashore, swim out to reach it. And that's what I always tell the guys I've got coming through here is that you know you seize it. You know you don't wait for things to happen, you go and create the opportunity for them to happen to you, and that's all that's always stuck with me as well.
Speaker 1:I'm going to use that today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, matthew that's been great.
Speaker 1:We appreciate it, mate.
Speaker 2:Thanks, matt, thanks very much and thanks for having me on it's. Keep up the good work as well. It's fantastic thanks mate.
Speaker 1:Thanks mate, that was brilliant. I'll just