Manufacturing Leaders

The 5 Fundamental Processes Every Successful Business Gets Right

• Mark Bracknall • Season 12 • Episode 6

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In this episode, we explore practical leadership that prioritises speed of decision-making, honest risk, and shared accountability - while empowering true experts to lead within their domain. 

Graham dives into how dual career tracks, early STEM exposure, and well-defined business processes shape stronger teams and deliver better outcomes. We also discuss the importance of development over ego, diversity in STEM, and why manufacturing still faces a marketing gap despite the North East’s significant strengths.

Key talking points:
• Defining leadership through accountability, rational risk, and swift decisions
• Lessons from structured development at Rolls-Royce
• Creating parity between technical expert and management career tracks
• Building teams around strengths and hiring for gaps

Graham also shares insights on flipping the organisational chart to promote empowerment, running voice-rich meetings that create collective accountability, and the five fundamental business processes every company should understand. 

We dig into how legacy processes should be challenged with better “why” and “how” questions, and we finish by exploring Quanta EPC’s focus on waste-to-energy, process, and renewable projects.

Please like or subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.

If you’d like more information about Theo James, as mentioned during the episode, feel free to get in touch with me or the team anytime.

Please like and subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.

Theo James is a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK.

If you’d like more information about Theo James, feel free to get in touch with the team or Mark anytime.

You can call us on 0191 511 1298.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome to the episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast with me, Mark Bracknell, Magic Director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we're welcoming on Graeme Puntis, the CEO of Quanta EPC. What an episode this was. It was this was like a core old school episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast, but we talked about everything leadership. You are going to become a better leader from listening to this episode. I can guarantee that. Graeme talked about his time growing up as a leader at Rolls-Royce and the lessons he took from that. He talked about turning the org chart upside down and how he ensures he empowers people, how you give people a voice and how you essentially lead together as a team. One of my key takeaways was actually the importance of making a decision, not standing still, making that decision and using the data available to you at that time. And that was something I really took away. But he also talks a lot about the five fundamental processes that any successful business has. Graham has worked for a variety of companies, both on a permanent basis and interim basis, all around the world. He brings everything back to these five fundamental processes to really simplify becoming and being a leader. We also talk a lot about STEM and we talk about the lack of women and the under diverse groups in manufacturing and what we need to be doing behind empowering that and improving that before we talk in detail about how the Northeast, despite the fact neither of us are from the Northeast, we talk in detail about the passion, the skill set we're here and the opportunities that this region has to offer as well. So please, please, please um join me in listen or watch this episode. Um, as ever, please do the honour of liking and subscribing. It really helps grow the channel. Um, so thank you very much. Sit back and hope you enjoy the episode. Excellent. A massive warm welcome today to Graham Puntis, the um CEO of Quanta EPC. Graeme, how are we doing? All good?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm doing good. Thanks, Mart. Good to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you so much for coming on. I'm really looking forward to this one. It's gonna be uh some real interesting conversations if our pre-chat has got anything to go by. But um, so I'm gonna get straight into it. First question is the same question I ask everyone who comes on the show, which is what does it mean to you to be a leader?

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's a really good question. Really good place to start. So uh so for me, being a leader is all about accountability, responsibility, and driving things forward to places where perhaps other people might not be able to take the business. Um, I think that it's all about being prepared to put yourself on the line for the benefit of others. Uh, and I think it's all about not being not being afraid to take some risks that you understand. I I I picked up a great uh work ethic, if you like, from Rolls-Royce many, many years ago. And that was having the will to take rational risks. Don't go blundering into stuff that you don't understand, but absolutely step back, look at something, say, is that risk worth taking, not just for you, but for the business and for everybody else that it impacts, uh, and then uh and then work out your direction from there.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that ethos? Obviously, you pick it up from Rolls Royce, but has that changed over time and I guess perfected over time to some extent? Have you felt that, or has it just been a natural move?

SPEAKER_01:

I think that the uh I think that the risks that I am prepared to take are different to the ones that I used to take. And I think that my decision-making process towards being able to make that risk, but take that step towards that risk. I think that's changed, I think that's evolved, refined, and probably uh probably become honed over the years. And of course it's also driven by market dynamics, you know. The the if you're if you're in a if you're in a tricky spot, a tight spot, you might be prepared to take more risk than uh than if everything was uh was plain sailing. So um I think I think yes, changed over the years. I think I am more considered than I used to be. Uh I think I take um a I think I take any longer to make the decisions. I've always I've always been very uh very keen on the idea that you should make a decision relatively quickly. Um and I've also always subscribed to the idea that if you don't make a decision, nothing will happen. So it's better to take a decision. And if it turns out to be the wrong decision, you just turn around and make a different one and uh and and try a different direction.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I like that. So I guess like anything, every decision we make is is is based on the the data we've got, and that might be actual data or that might be emotional data of experience we've had in years gone by. So uh and I think that's how leaders evolve, don't they? They they learn from from mistakes they made from those decisions they they wanted that perhaps didn't work out, but the the positive is they'll perhaps make a better one after.

SPEAKER_01:

I I think that's absolutely right. I I uh um so I've known a few people over the years that that claim never to have made the mistake, uh, and I would argue that they're the worst for it. Um I think really the the real measure of uh of how good a leader you are, um it's it's are you prepared to take those risks and suffer the occasional mistake? Um and then the the real the real measure is how quickly do you get back up and how hard do you continue to fight after you've made those mistakes? And and can you um accept those mistakes and learn from them? Um don't don't look back on them. Make the best mistake that you sorry, the best the best decision that you can make on the day with the information that you've got at hand. Make sure that you can uh you can look yourself in the mirror next day, next month, next year, and say, with the information that I had at that point in time, was that the best decision I could make? If the answer is yes, you've done a great job, whether it was the right decision or not, you can make another one to change course in the future.

SPEAKER_00:

Love that. Yeah, I know you obviously mentioned Rolls Royce, so I'll just we'll talk briefly about that. It's okay. How you mentioned risk, Pete, but how do you think they help you as a leader and and other leaders? Is that uh is that a conscious mould and process they go through, would you say, or is it just uh working for a good company and the habits that comes from that?

SPEAKER_01:

So they've they've got a uh um they've got a very structured leadership development program. Um and I was I was lucky enough to uh uh to be part of that. Uh I got my first uh my first P ⁇ L job with them when I was uh about 27, 28, uh so some years ago now. Um and and I I thoroughly enjoyed it. The the best thing about it was that it gave me a structure in which to learn and then a structure from which to develop, uh a structure from which I could find out who I was and and and how to make my own processes and and and my own um decision-making processes, I guess, is uh uh is what I would say. Um I I did I did lots and lots of leadership and management courses with them. I think I learned something from every single one of them. Uh and I think that I have probably taken something with me from every single one of those courses. Would would I would I apply exactly the same process today as I applied well, I'm not gonna tell you how many years ago, but but more than 20. Um would I would I apply exactly the same process? Probably not. Same principles, certainly, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

I think what's interesting is that, and this is where it's a challenge for some easy, isn't it? Because the bigger the business, the the the bigger the setup, the more support staff, the more people they've got involved to create these you know management training schools. But I think that's where for years and years a lot of industries have, but I think manufacturing and engineering in particular have probably neglected the importance of that training piece within managers and just presumed that if you're good at good at your job, you're a good engineer, you must be good at leading teams where that isn't the case. I I'm seeing that flip now. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I um so I used to work for uh another company which I won't name because of the story I'm going to tell you. But um my boss was an absolutely excellent engineer, one of the one of the best engineers I've ever come come across. In the field of submarine design. Um, absolute genius. What that guy didn't know about submarines wasn't worth knowing. Um, he did a fantastic job, uh, and he uh he became head of department. Uh and at that point, the entire thing uh changed for him. So he he would scurry in head down, carrying his bag, sealing himself in his office all day. Uh you wouldn't get to speak to him. He'd come out and leave at five o'clock, and it would be the same thing. He he was not a leader. Uh he was a brilliant, brilliant engineer, but but he was a terrible leader. Um and going back to Rolls-Royce, one of the most interesting things about the way they develop people is that they have two tracks. You can become a technical expert, or you can become a manager, a leader, uh a business unit director, and on into the ether. But the technical experts are afforded the same level of importance, the same level of pay, uh, they take the same level of uh of responsibility as the uh as the as the P ⁇ L leaders in a slightly different way. Um but it meant that you you were really, really valued as a technical expert. Uh, I think so often in businesses, particularly smaller businesses, you see the um very, very good engineers, very, very good technical people, they they they reach a glass ceiling and there isn't anywhere for them to go. They can't be paid more, they can't be developed more um because of the structure, uh not because they're they're limited in their capability or their capacity. Um and then they get disillusioned and um either become a shadow of their former self or or go off and and seek something else somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, completely. Which I guess leads on to do you think that do you think leaders are you born a leader? Or because obviously that's the argument, isn't it? That you either are an engineer or you're a manager, or do you think there's a lot of missed opportunities where people could have been great managers given the right training set of skills?

SPEAKER_01:

So I think I think that's a that's a really interesting question. I do think there's an element of being naturally predisposed to taking responsibility, taking accountability, and and wanting to stick your head above the parapet and and do the best that you can. Um I think that the skills of leadership can be learned. Um and I think that you can have some uh some really very, very capable managers, leaders uh that have been developed from being technical experts. Um I do think that the very best leaders amongst us, um I think they're naturally drawn to it. I think if you're if you're not prepared to take on the uh um you're taking responsibility for a lot of people and you're taking responsibility for a lot of things. Um and I think that you have to be predisposed to wanting to do that. Um the skills themselves, I I think, I think anybody could learn. Um, but you've you know, I think sometimes perhaps you've got to have a little bit of a death wish to want to pop your head up and be shot at all the time. But uh I think that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I couldn't completely agree. But I mean in terms of the decision making, like you say, and that that job of uh of holding the people accountable, of the leader being the one that has to has to put the head above sometimes and make those tricky decisions, which have an impact on people's lives in some situations. Given the experience you've got now, how how much do you think you should involve the the senior team and people around you to help with those and perhaps sometimes to burden those decisions? Or do you still feel as a leader it needs to come solely from the top? What are your thoughts on that? I think people battle with that sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think yeah, I I I do I do. I don't think that it should come solely from the top. Um my my natural reaction is to take responsibility for the difficult decisions. Um but I also believe that a senior team should have a degree of collective accountability. Uh so I think that you have to select your team, you have to put the right people around the table because ultimately, at the end of the day, um I'm not going to, and I never want to know, the the intimate detail of every single issue that's going on around me. Um I I've always I've always thought of myself as uh um a bit like a conductor with an orchestra. So so I'm sure the conductor of an orchestra can play lots and lots of discipline instruments to to you know a reasonable degree. Is he going to be a virtuoso on every single one of those? Absolutely not. But he puts those virtuosos within the orchestra, and then he knows how to get the best out of them at the right time. Um I guess I guess that's how I try to think of myself. Um, I've worked across a lot of industries, um, I've worked across lots of different countries, I've got all sorts of different experiences. Um, and I like to try to draw on those experiences to help me get the best from the people that are the experts in their particular field within the room.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's uh I I agree because actually, I mean I've I've shared before that I've battled before trying to lean into not lean to my weakness, but trying to improve my weaknesses and kick myself that I should be better, this should be better than that. But actually, I think leaders, if they lean into the strengths and then they they hire into their weaknesses and delegate those tasks, that's where you create teams, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

I I think I think that's very true. One of the biggest mistakes that I think that we make in the development of people is we expect them to even out their skills. Yeah. So if you've got somebody who is uh um really good, uh uh I don't know, he's really good at contract law, but he's not quite so good at some other aspect of commercial law. Don't don't don't develop the the other aspect of commercial law. Make him the world's best at the bit that he's already really, really good at, and then go and find somebody else who's really, really good at the other bit. Now, obviously, you you can't you can't take that to an extreme because then you end up with a a massive, massive team of people, which which would never work. But I do think it's important to say, what are your what are your real strengths? And and and you should really, really develop those strengths and become the best of the best at that particular aspect of uh of your role. Um you've got to have a degree of competence in everything else, you've got to be able to understand everything that is that is going on around you, but but don't waste time and effort developing yourself into being um really good at something that you're never going to be brilliant at. Just just get somebody else to do that for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I completely. And and I you know, I've learned a lot, I learned a lot from these podcasts from speaking to people like yourself, Graeme. And and one of the one of the key takeaways I've made it is, and this is probably where I've seen management change for the better the last sort of 10 years, really, is people don't lead with ego as much as they used to, I think, in management. You know, people now it isn't all about the leader and all about them, it's about empowering people. And I think that's what and I think people want to be empowered now and and they want to be part of the team and not necessarily told what to do, but they want to be involved now. They people want a voice, simple as that.

SPEAKER_01:

I I've never understood the idea of hiring somebody on the basis that you think they're going to be really good at their job and then tell them what to do. What what there's there's no point in that. They should be telling me what they need to do and how I can help them, uh how I can help them be better. Um, one one of the concepts that I like to think about a lot is the fact that the leader of an organization shouldn't be pulling it along from the front. What the leader should be doing is supporting it and providing everybody within the organization uh with the ability to be the best they can. I I like I like to think of it as flipping the organization chart upside down. And and so you know, I'll I'll be there holding it up, supporting everybody, doing absolutely the best that I can. Whenever they need me, I'll be there, I'll I'll get in front of the customer, I'll get in front of the suppliers, whatever's required. Um, but my job is to support them. It it's not to uh it's not to drag them along.

SPEAKER_00:

I really like that concept, and um, you know, that I think that's a it's a great vision for someone to think about. If someone was to come into a role, whether that be interim position or whether they're they've just started a new position and they have that mentality and they really want to get inside and make a difference. What would be the first things you would do to start to because I guess you can't do that in day one. So, what was the first thing you would start to do to get that to the level you were happy with?

SPEAKER_01:

I think the most important thing is understanding the individual skills that people have got. And once you understand what those individual skills are, you can be sure that you have put them in the right part of the organization, given them the right role. Um, or or even you might think about changing the responsibilities to suit. Um I don't I don't think you should ever organize uh a business around a specific person. But what I do think you should do is once you've got the team of people that you are happy with, I do think you should think about what's the most effective way to split up the roles and responsibilities. Don't don't be constrained by uh by um perceived norms. Um don't be constrained by what's already there, don't be constrained by what's gone before. Uh think hard about how you can how you can devise a way for the business to work that allows your people to shine. Um and then I think once you once you understand their skills and you've got to the point whereby you're confident that they are doing the right role uh with the right interfaces with the rest of your team, then it becomes all about empowerment. Uh give them give them a voice, uh, make sure that they can express their uh their views, um, make sure nobody is left behind in that conversation, make sure that everybody has uh an equal opportunity to contribute, make sure that you look after because there's always going to be some quieter people in the group, make sure that you look after them, make sure that you draw out their voice, empower everybody, and give them the ability to act. Um, and I think once once you've done that, you should start to get to the point where uh where you're a um a supportive leader uh rather than uh rather than one that that demands.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, tremendous advice that and I think and this is why for me why the role of a manager, the career of a manager now is is so much more uh exciting perhaps than it used to be because you know what we're talking about here is it's the psychology of the psychology of a person, it's getting to know someone, it's it's it's actually making a difference. Where before I think leaders were just ambitious people who want to get to the top, and that's still okay. You know, there's still those those roles of people, but I think you know part of my job is is speaking to people and and understanding what makes them tick and actually what makes them unhappy, why they're leaving roles. And and people stay at positions for less money now because the cook because the culture, because they have a voice, because they get on with the manager and they allow them to empower them. And I think this people people talk a lot about attracting people, just look after your attention, you know, just look after look after people, and then the the rest should in theory take care of itself. But that that has evolved, I would say, over time, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01:

I I think I think that's true. Um, I would say over the last sort of 10 years or so, uh, I think it's become much more important to become an empathetic leader. Yeah. Um you you need to have that degree of emotional intelligence if you want to build a strong, resilient team without a degree of turnover in it. And and and actually, I think that so I I don't think you should ever you should ever you should never see somebody leaving as a failure. Um, because the chances are they want to leave because you've developed them to a point at which there is no more development available. Um and at that point, I I think, you know, I think you should you should set them free and and and give them that turbo boost. They might come back in a few years' time and be better than they ever were. Um you should be proud of the uh uh the opportunity that you've given them, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, completely agree. That links in to me in terms of you know, we mentioned the the quality and making sure that everyone has a voice. And I think manufacturing is still underrepresented underrepresented with a lot of minority groups, and and um I know we've talked before about STEM and diversity and the lack of women in manufacturing. I know that's something you've talked about and spoken about before. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I think I think we've got a lack of diversity in general in in senior uh um uh technical positions across the UK. Not just technical positions, but but technical organizations. Um the the experience that I have over the years of of bringing particularly particularly uh a female voice into the boardroom, um, it has it has the ability to temper an awful lot of the sort of male ego that that goes on within the boardroom. Um I think I think that we've got a great untapped potential uh in having a much more diverse boardroom, a much more diverse engineering management team, a much more um diverse STEM management team. Um I've um I have two daughters. Um both of them have got a uh a relatively scientific brain. Um and yet still I see the uh I see the opportunities for them to pursue that that sort of scientific STEM type route. It it gets closed down from a very, very early age. Uh, and I think that then ultimately you see that reflected in a very, very low number of uh uh of women in candidate pools for jobs in in technical organizations. Um I know some absolutely wonderful uh uh managing directors that I've worked with over the years um that that have they've been absolutely brilliant. Uh and and though those are women that have come through uh come through the ranks, um, have developed themselves. And and I think we need to understand and accept that in actual fact, usually for a woman to reach that level, they need to have been better than the man because the man can often just stand there and and and be uh um recruited just because of who he is. And and I I you know I think I think that's wrong. I think it's really important that we uh uh we continue to um encourage young girls right from a school age to take an interest in uh in science, technology, engineering, maths, all of all of those types of subjects. Um we shouldn't, you know, we we shouldn't force them down it. I don't believe in in quotas or anything like that. What I believe in is is making the opportunities available and making people aware of those opportunities. If they choose to take them, fantastic. If they choose not to take them, that's equally valid and equally fantastic.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, it's um I send the board of a UTC new Acliffe and they you know that is a that is a school specially set up for engineering. So literally, you know, it's a tra it's a GTC school, but they are trained to go on, and they still have they still report a big drop-off of P of girls when they get to 13, 14, you know, there's there's a sudden drop-off there, which is just which is appointing. Apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider, specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialise in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ Exec search arm of the business, both from the contract and permit side. We offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for heart of roles or a full partnership service where we become an extension of your business. For any information, please get in touch with me or the team. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thank you. Well, why why do you do you think the drop-off is predominantly then because it is still male dominated and it's a bit of a chicken egg situation, or is it more than that?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh I I don't really know. Um, what I do think we should do is do the work to uh uh to find out and understand. Yeah, um, is it is it peer pressure, is it societal norm, is it a lack of uh of of perceived opportunities? Um I don't know the answer to that. Um what I do know is is that I would like to find ways to address that um and and make sure that um potentially great engineers, potentially great leaders uh are not turned off from uh uh from a career in a STEM subject early on for whatever reason, actually, whether they be male, female, uh um, whether they belong to an ethnic minority. I I think it's actually all about just building out the opportunity for everybody, no matter where you come from, no matter what your background and no matter what your ambition should be, the the opportunity should be there.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, I I completely agree. It's I still think manufacturing is is almost still quite secretive. It's not it's not marketed very well. You know, we we drive past factories every day, and and they're just for outside looking in, they're just big sheds. But actually, some of the a lot of these factories are absolutely amazing. They're just they are.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So when when you think about it, any any manufacturing process it it takes something simple and it adds value to it and it transforms it into something of of real use, you know. So so uh pulling pulling rubber from a tree and then turning it into uh uh into a hose that keeps people safe on an offshore installation, that's actually really quite cool. Yeah, um, if you think about uh um building um subsea robotic vehicles, things like ROVs and plows and trenches and so on, um we we get the raw materials, we uh uh we turn those raw materials into uh intermediate materials, we add an awful lot of IP to that, uh, and then we develop something that is truly amazing. Um the idea of building process plants with uh with hundreds and hundreds of miles of of pipe work and electrical cabling and and and uh process features of uh like pyrolysis, or there's there's just so much that goes on. It's incredibly exciting. And and and you're right, you you drive down the road, and what do you see? You see a big grey shed. Yeah, with no windows. You might see some input and you might see some output, but you don't see anything of what goes on in between. And it it's astoundingly clever.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it it is, and I I really hope with uh with marketing you know being more uh relevant now and companies starting to be more visual. I hope that this this type of stuff really helps because then you know that's how do people learn now? They learn on YouTube, they learn on Instagram, and all this type of stuff. And I think they they need to be more visual. You know, my uh my my youngest, my little lad, is six, and I've taken him around a couple of factories, and he now wants to be an engineer because he seemed robots at work, uh and and you know, for that is the most impressional age. He might he might get uh be end up being older and not want to, but right now he he loves it and he wants to be it, and in and he's got a maths brain, and I can see it's it's in him, but they just need to give young, really young people that exposure to actually because it's it's amazing some of this stuff, like it is, and and don't be wrong, there's some really good companies doing doing a lot of good, and it it is probably the most challenging time right now for companies to go, right? We're gonna go meet schools, and so because they're trying to keep businesses alive, I get that, yeah. But with the need to be more stuff done collectively, collaboratively to to ensure that because I completely agree, there is a massive lack of of women in engineering, and as soon as what I've seen in a lot of companies, as soon as you get one or two really good female leaders on the board, that starts to trickle down and you start to give people that confidence, doesn't it? But it just it just takes some time and and we just need we now we're in action to do that. So I I I completely agree. You know, we we have the drive is is is is getting the interest early.

SPEAKER_01:

If you get the interest early and and you create a uh uh a curiosity about what it could be, then then ultimately you should end up with a broader uh a broader career pool. I I I got into engineering because every Saturday morning while my parents were uh uh were still in bed, I got up and I watched Thunderbirds and uh and and I loved it, you know, rockets and submarines and cars and all of that sort of thing. And that that was what sparked my interest in engineering. I don't do engineering anymore. I was never the world's best engineer. Um I you know, I think uh um I've made a few engineering mistakes over the years, which I'm proud to put my hand up to. Uh but but that's what really hooked me. Uh, and I think that we need to make sure that those hooks are available for uh for the young people today, actually.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I I I couldn't agree more. And more so at this, hopefully, will help. But it needs to be, it's probably still needs to be parenting. Help push it as well. You know, a lot of a lot of uh companies I work work with now do apprenticeship days where they actually have open nights for the parents because I still think you know there's 15, 16-year-olds. But the problem with 15 16 year olds is a lot of them, it's too late, you know. It's it's getting them in young, like you say, when they do see rockets and the fence and all this type of stuff, and they connect they connect the two together, so it's not just something on television, it's something they get involved in early doors.

SPEAKER_01:

It's early engagement, isn't it? And and and that can take the form of all sorts of things from from um if you're fixing something at home, show your kids, yeah. Or you know, if you're uh uh if you're doing something else or you're doing some research on a on uh a bit of work, um show them what you're doing, talk to them about what uh what you're doing, have a discussion over dinner about um you know what what's the most exciting thing that you you did today. And and I think if you can if you can capture people's imaginations early on, they've they've got the opportunity to do some incredible stuff all over the world in some incredible places with some incredible people, actually.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, completely agree. And uh well, we're both sat in the northeast of England here, and um, you know, I uh either from the area, you've worked many areas across the world. What do you think? What observations have you got about the northeast and how is it different, would you say, to uh other areas you've you've worked with and worked in?

SPEAKER_01:

I think there is a very, very strong sense of community in the northeast. Um, and I think there is also a very, very strong sense of uh of history. Um I think my earliest uh my earliest involvement with the Northeast was back when the Swan Hunter shipyard was in uh was in Walls End. Um I was working for the Ministry of Defence at the time, uh, and I spent quite a lot of time um both here and in Glasgow uh and also over in uh in Northern Ireland uh looking after the the build of the Type 23 frigates and and uh um how we had to uh modify the design of those to increase their uh their design life. What I remember about coming to the Northeast at the time and coming to the shipyard was the passion that everybody showed for uh for that. Um I think it's I think it's a shame when you see the state of shipbuilding across the UK and particularly in the Northeast and also in Glasgow, um, that all of those those opportunities that that really provided um really, really strong entrances to really, really interesting careers, um, they they've they've dwindled away. Uh what I do like, um, what I'm particularly pleased to see in the Northeast is uh is the establishment of a real cluster of capability in uh uh in offshore engineering, sub-sea engineering. Uh, we're seeing an awful lot of activity, uh particularly around the sort of Newcastle Blythe area, um, for uh for very, very capable sub-sea engineering. If you look down towards uh Teesside, you see an awful lot of process work going on. Um there's a fair amount of carbon capture work going on down there. Uh, and I'm really, really pleased to see that coming back up. I I think I think that we are in a fairly unique position in that an awful lot of people, talented people, who come originally from the Northeast, they they go away, they study, but they come back again. Also, we too, I so you're not from the Northeast, I'm not from the Northeast. Uh um, but I think that once you once you arrive here, when you're when you're drawn here by an opportunity, it's very, very difficult to move away again. Don't leave, yeah. I think that I you know, I I I thought I'd be here. I moved here in 2016, thought I'd be here for three or four years and then go and do something else. Here I am nearly 10 years later, and uh uh and uh I'm I'm here for good, you know. My my daughter's at school here. Uh we've got some great friends, and there's great opportunity, and there's lots and lots of people out there to work with and collaborate with. Uh, and I think I think that is one of the real strengths of the Northeast.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I completely agree. Uh it's interesting because, like you say, we are neither of us are from the Northeast, but we're both talking about it about how special it is. And I think that in itself proves it. And exactly the same. You know, I've I've got a family, you know, my family are from the Northeast, and there's not a chance that we'll we'll move now. And I and I am look, the the market manufacturing engineering across the full UK has its challenges, without doubt. But I do think the Northeast is a prime location for hopefully more support from the government busting through, because I do. I think the the talent up here is is excellent. You know, it really is. I think it's um it's set up in a perfect way to really sort of um build and um get involved in any sort of future projects. And yeah, hopefully it's it's there, it's very much there to stay. Um before I let you go, I'd like to talk a little bit about the I guess lessons you've learned, Graeme, in terms of from your business piece, and I guess processes that you have, you know, we've touched on it already in terms of whether it be Rolls-Royce or all the different types of roles you've had. What do you think are the core processes that underpin every successful business, would you say?

SPEAKER_01:

So I think every business is underpinned by the same five core processes. Um, I as you know, you know, I've I've worked in lots of different places. I've I've done several stints of uh um interim uh interim work over the years as well. And it's really, really interesting how whenever you go to a new business, either as an interim or as uh as a permanent employee, everybody says, oh, it's different here. You you'll you'll uh uh we don't we don't work like everybody else. And and to a degree I can accept that about culture. Um but but fundamentally you've got five core business processes that everybody needs to adhere to. You need a proposition, you need to develop some inquiries, you need to turn those inquiries into orders, you need to deliver against those orders, and you need to collect some cash. Now, there isn't a business out there that is that is different to that. So I've always I've always held with the principle of simplifying things as much as you possibly can and bringing them back to those five key processes. Um wrap that with a layer of understanding of the the people uh and the culture. Um and and then I think that if you can focus on the interfaces between people, between different parts of the processes, um, and then between yourself and your supply chain and your customers, um, if you can focus on those areas, you'll be pretty well equipped to work in just about any business, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's that's great advice because I think sometimes you you can't say would three freeze, and I think that's a really nice, simple way of looking at things. Well, interesting on that interim piece. When you start working with a company, like you say, uh every company is different, but it's still underpinned with those processes. Do what are then the the typical challenges you tend to come up against when you say that and then maybe the first things you you would tackle?

SPEAKER_01:

So so the the thing that always strikes me is that almost everybody says you can't change that because we've done it like this for years, and I know it's a trope, and and and I, you know, I I I know that it sounds like a uh uh um you know just just just an easy just an easy thing to say, but but I just don't believe that. I believe that you should challenge everything. And and the first thing that I ask whenever I get into a new business is is why? Why do we do that? And then not just why do we do that, why do we do it like that? And then follow that up with how could we do it differently? Um, and I I think I think that if you can take that sort of mindset into uh into a business, you've got a um you've got a good platform for first of all stabilization if you're in a turnaround situation. Um, but then also you've you've got a good platform for growth. Because if you understand those three things intrinsically, um you can get to the point where you can see how the business needs to change relatively rapidly. Um and and you know, if you don't change these days, you're standing still uh because all of your competitors will be changing faster than you are. Uh and and in effect, you're not standing still, you're falling behind them. So uh uh get in and ask those three questions.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh and what I really love about that is you you're you're asking, not telling, because I think people have this pressure only when you come as a leader that they must come in and and tell people what but actually you're you're leading with curiosity, aren't you, essentially?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I when I join a new business, I don't know anything about it. Uh, you know, you can go through you can go through a two-stage, three-stage interview process, you can do all of your uh uh all of your desk research, you can ask around your network, you can find out what's on the website, you can, you know, you can get some some understanding of of what the place is about, but you don't know it. Uh and and the first thing you have to do is get to know the business and prioritize the areas that that need attention. Um leave the stuff that's working for later, fix the stuff that isn't working, but fix it by asking why we do it like that. What are we doing, and how can we do it differently?

SPEAKER_00:

Love it. Um couple of uh reflection questions, I guess. Um what's been the hardest time you can think of in your leadership journey, would you say?

SPEAKER_01:

I closed the business once. That was that was really, really challenging. Um I uh um my remit in in that role was to work out whether or not a business could be saved or not and come up with either a um a save or close plan. Um that was that was really really hard because that was my first real experience of taking decisions that had a material and lasting impact on people's lives. Um I was uh um I was in Norway in 2002. Uh that was that was a a really really steep learning curve for me. Um it's also actually one of my uh one of my proudest moments is that the day that I shut the doors on that business, not one single person went out of that business without having another job to go to. Um I'd either place them elsewhere, so that was when I was with Rolls-Royce, I'd either place them elsewhere in the group, either within country or or elsewhere. Um or I had facilitated movement to uh uh to other organizations that had um similar capabilities. Uh and in one or two instances, I'd actually help people set up their their own business and and and start to work independently. Um yeah, that was that was both a it was a sad day, but it was it was a day that I look back on and think, um I mentioned earlier you have to make the best decision that you can on the day with the information that that you have. Um that was a day where I could really look back and say, yeah, I did a good job there and I made the right decisions um based on the information that I had. Would I do it differently now with different information? Possibly, yes. Um, but but nobody nobody suffered, even though that business had to go.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, love that. Um just a two or three quick fire questions to end. That's okay. Classic one away, but I'm always curious about this one. If if you could go back to the first managerial role you took, what advice would you give yourself knowing now what you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Lose the ego.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Lose the ego. Understand that you are not the most important person in the room, understand that you don't know more than all of the other people in the room. Use the knowledge that is in the room.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, love that. Love that. Who's the best? I know you don't know the I I've not um prepped the any of these questions, so but who's the best manager you've ever had and why?

SPEAKER_01:

The best manager I've ever had. Okay. Uh, so that was a guy called Tony Casillo. Um and uh uh I joined a business um to run the Europe, Middle East, and Africa uh service division. Uh rotating equipment, steam turbine generators, and uh uh and axe field compressors. Um I had the best part of 400 people working for me across seven locations, spread across uh um UK, northern Europe, um into the Middle East. Tony Casillo was somebody who sat and listened and took on board the views of everybody that was around him. He did then take a uh take the decision and he took the responsibility for the decision that he made. Um but he was he was a guy that I could I could really relate to the way in which he um reached those decisions, uh, and I could really relate to the way in which he took the knowledge in the room, distilled it, and and found the best answer that he could. Uh I I really enjoyed working for him. He was a great guy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, great, perfect. So and just finally, what any books or audio books that you recommend, anything which has helped you over the years? What do you say?

SPEAKER_01:

Um so I'm actually a fan of picking little snippets out of uh out of all sorts of different areas because I think that I think that it doesn't it doesn't matter how many times how how much you read, how many different things you research, uh um how many models you try, I think what you'll actually find is that you need to develop your own model that suits your own personality uh and your own way of doing things, and you assemble that by uh by by taking all of the um all of the different best bits from each of the model that that you've learned about. Um I think that there's there's uh um there's a book called Drive that that I really really like. Um I I also I I'm also a big fan of uh of of reading um dystopian novels, uh, and then I try to distill the lessons from those dystopian novel novels into uh uh into things that I can take into into leadership scenarios. Um some of my favorites uh are Brave New World by Aldus Huxley. Um there's a book called Um The Iron Heel. Um both of those are all about how you need to understand the way in which you interact with everybody else to be able to influence the outcome. And I I I think I think that's uh uh that's a great lesson.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, great. Love that. And and and just finally, Quanta EPC, what was happening in the next sort of 12, 22 months? What's what's what's on the horizon?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh so in interesting times for us at the moment. Um, we are currently uh finishing off the detailed design for a waste to energy plant down on T-side. Um, next phase is to move into the uh uh the uh EPC uh engineering procurement and construction phase for that project. Um that will take us around about 18 months from uh uh from from pushing the button. Uh so that's that's very exciting. Um we are pushing on with uh a diversification project at the moment to try to take us outside of our uh our normal customer regime. Um Quantor EPC's history was all offshore. Um now I I think that there is significant opportunity in the process industry. I think there's uh um there's there's an awful lot of work that we do at the moment uh for natural gas transmission around the UK. Um and I'm trying to take the EPC element of the waste to energy design, um, the uh the concept and detailed design work that we do for NGT uh and apply that into different sectors. Uh, we've recently started doing some work on uh um on wind turbine construction. Um we've been helping a little bit in the offshore subsea industry. Um we are currently also starting to uh uh starting to get into some really interesting work with biomass plants, uh which is uh another change of direction for us. So um got some big plans, uh very, very ambitious plans over the next few years. Um I think as I've said several times, the most important thing that I can do to uh to help that business is think about how I support the rest of the team uh and also make sure that I make the best decision with the information that I have at hand every time I'm I'm called upon for an answer. Um but it's exciting times.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, really exciting. Well, excellent. So look, thank you so much for this. I I often I always reflect to the end in terms of lessons I've learned and so many here. I think that the key takeaway and the key action for me, which is important, I think is you've just mentioned it again there, is the it is to ensure that decision is made. Because I think if I if I sometimes reflect on on my career and how that's progressed, I've I've I've maybe not made that decision for the fear of upsetting people or fear of being the wrong one. And ultimately, exactly like you say, you don't make that decision, you know, you're standing still or going backwards. So I really like that, and that's the takeaway. But actually, this episode has just given me a warm, fuzzy feeling about being a leader. And I think sometimes we we because we're so busy, we neglect how what a privilege it is to be in a position where you can empower people and you can you know you can work with people you trust and they trust you, and you can have such an impact in their lives. And this has definitely been one of the Zeppelin to me, where it just brings it all back to say to really feel that you know it is such a an unrivaled role where you can make such a big difference, but you are only one person, you've got to work together as a team, simple as that.

SPEAKER_01:

So I I I love the word privilege in there, it is absolutely a privilege. You know, uh I I love I love being a leader, um, I love uh empowering other people, I love developing other people and giving them the opportunity to shine. Um, some of the some of the best points in my career have been where I've helped people go off and do things and and reach uh greater heights than I'll ever be able to reach. And and you know, for me, that's a um that's an incredible reward.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, perfect. Well, thank you so much, Graham. I massively appreciate it. If people want to find you, what's the best way? LinkedIn typically or uh LinkedIn, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm on LinkedIn. Um and uh just drop me a message there and uh uh I'll always respond as quickly as I can.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much. Well, thank you, Graham. This has been amazing. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for the opportunity, Mark. It's been really good stuff. Really good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. Please just like or subscribe. It really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team. I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter, and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums on seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help improve their lives, and ultimately I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon.