Manufacturing Leaders
Currently the Number 1 Manufacturing Podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts!
Mark Bracknall, Founder of Theo James Recruitment is the host of Manufacturing Leaders.
The UK is still a powerhouse in Manufacturing & Engineering. We speak to those who are helping to make those firms a success. By motivating, inspiring and managing teams.
Are you new to management? Are you keen to hear from those who are dealing with the same day-to-day challenges you are facing?
In this podcast we get inside the minds of the Managers in Manufacturing & Engineering, and understand how they get the best our of their teams and make Manufacturing & Engineering great.
Manufacturing Leaders
How Leadership is Evolving in Manufacturing
In the latest episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast, we sit down with Gary Sheader, the driving force behind the Manufacturers Alliance, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, personal growth, and what it really takes to lead in today’s manufacturing world.
We dig into why employee engagement matters more than ever, how it directly impacts productivity, and what leaders can do to create environments where people genuinely want to do their best work.
Gary highlights key leadership trends in manufacturing, especially the growing importance of emotional intelligence and self-awareness.
Gary also gives us a behind-the-scenes look at how the Manufacturers Alliance develops leaders through immersive retreats that blend personal reflection with practical, real-world outcomes.
His message is clear: leadership isn’t static - it’s an ongoing journey that blends self-development with strategic thinking.
One of the biggest takeaways is that real change starts with authenticity, humility, and a willingness to admit there’s always room to grow.
In this episode, you’ll learn about:
- Purpose-driven leadership - why doing work that aligns with your values makes you a better leader
- Emotional intelligence - how understanding yourself and others is critical in today’s complex manufacturing environment
- Fresh approaches to leadership development - including retreats and reflective practices that push leaders out of their comfort zones
- Employee engagement and productivity - and why one rarely exists without the other
- Starting your leadership journey - how honesty and self-awareness lay the foundation for meaningful change
Tune in for a thoughtful, practical conversation at the intersection of leadership, personal growth, and strategic influence in manufacturing - and keep listening for more insightful episodes from the Manufacturing Leaders podcast!
You can connect with Gary here on LinkedIn.
Please like and subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.
Theo James is a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK.
If you’d like more information about Theo James, feel free to get in touch with the team or Mark anytime.
You can call us on 0191 511 1298.
Hello and welcome to an episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. With me, Mark Banknell, my director of Theo James Recruitment. Today, welcome on Gary Sheader, the founder and my director of the Manufacturers Alliance. This was an episode which I thoroughly enjoyed and quite different to our typical episodes. Typically, we go through a leader's journey, a journey of building a business within manufacturing. This is quite different. Um, the manufacturers' alliance work closely with leaders within manufacturing. So a niche right up the street of this podcast. But actually, what we talked about was what they did a bit a little bit different. So we talked about the generational change of leadership and how emotional challenge, emotional intelligence is now a big part of that. But actually, the importance of realigning and reaffirming what someone's values and purpose is, both um themselves authentically and their business. And that brought us on to conversations of the retreats that Gary does and what people can potentially do to go through their own personal progression, and that could be um cold therapy, that could be meditation, that could be journaling. And we go into some of the specifics that Gary and I have both used um during our recent times to sort of help our own mentality. And I really feel like this is one of those episodes where it felt quite powerful, and it felt like it might change the trajectory of someone's journey if they just listen and really start to do some self-analysis and um hopefully realign their own values and purpose. And uh so thank you guys for this. It was really powerful. I really enjoyed it, it took a lot away myself. Um please, please, please just like and subscribe and help sort of share the channel. But yeah, I hope you enjoy the episode. Massive warm welcome day to Gary Sheeder. Gary's the uh the founder and MD of the Manufacturers Alliance based in Salford. Gary, is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Uh based in Bolton, yeah, not far from Salford, yeah, near Manchester.
SPEAKER_02:Nice good stuff, man. Excellent. I'm looking forward this one. It's so we've got some nice meaty stuff to talk about, which um yeah, I can't wait to be told. But first question, same question I said everyone, which we've just had a good laugh about there. It's uh which is uh what does it mean to you to be a leader? What do you say?
SPEAKER_00:Um I well I think there's leaders uh in terms of titles, which which definitely isn't isn't me. Um I I think I've always wanted to create environments where people can be at the best and ideally find something that's meaningful and purposeful to them, but whatever whatever that that that is really. So all my career I've never really chased, I've always wanted to grow and develop, but I've never chased a title that I've never wanted, or you know, uh some kind of big leadership title. So it's always been about people for me, and just helping other people to to thrive, to learn, to grow, um, to to connect with something. And I mean what what a magical thing to do. If people can come to work and you know, they're happy, thriving, doing something that's really enjoyable, then it's it's brilliant, isn't it? I think if you're in a team where everyone's that is that's the kind of ultimate goal, isn't it, for any team?
SPEAKER_02:100%. I mean every conversation I've had with you, I've had a really good long conversation before this, and I'm just cruel there. I already LinkedIn before, and and what you just said there really resonate because well, it's obvious that you care about what you do, if that makes sense, which which not everyone does. And I I guess it's it's to pick the point you just made there that some people just want the title of particularly sort of years gone by, they wanted to be a leader because they thought that's what a good career should look like. It's evident from from you that you're you do your work because of your values and your purpose, and I think probably purpose is the is the best word. When did you can you remember a time where you thought, right, I need to do something which aligns more to to me and my values, or was that a natural progression to kind of find what you do now, which you'll be doing for what 12-13 years until um I I think well I think I've always been uh been a learner.
SPEAKER_00:I think in my teens I lost my way a little bit with it, you know. I think like a lot of people do, you know, you kind of see the light in in beer and and stuff, and yeah, so I just yeah, so I think I just went off piste a little bit and I and I stopped I stopped learning really for a for a while. But yeah, it didn't take me long really. Well I had some friends actually that I worked with, I was in my kind of mid-20s maybe, that handed me a couple of books to to read and it it just caught me back into it again. I I I read a couple of couple of books which um well at the time that there were books on lean manufacturing, quite old, old books. Um you remember the titles um in search of excellence was was one. Um and lit lean thinking what was the was the other. Um yeah, so yeah, I I I started reading again and I just got the bug again. I like reading, I like listening to podcasts, I like learning, but I like doing something with it. It yeah, it doesn't really stop there for me. I get if I get bored with a book and I think I'm a couple of chapters in and I can't see anything I can grab hold of and apply it, I just I've just put it off because it's like so to me it's about the the application of it. So it's probably it's always been a slow progression, I think. Um I've always wanted to enjoy work if I'm if I'm being honest. Uh I've never really seen the point in doing something that I didn't enjoy. You know, even you know when you're providing for your family, you're still giving up a lot of your time and energy and effort, aren't you? You know, when you when you go out to work. So I think I've always recognised if I'm not enjoying it to to change something. And sometimes that's been within the business that I've that I've been in, you know, that there's a change needed, and sometimes it's meant, you know, go off and and do something else and and try something, try something new. Um But but I think there was a there was a moment with uh I suppose like the coming up to the starting the journey with the manufacturers alliance, yeah. Well there there are a few a few worlds met, I suppose. In I suppose my own personal values and things that were happening around me at the time. Um that there was there was someone that I got to know that she she lost a a daughter to a congenital heart disease and she wanted to raise some money for charity at the time, she probably going back about 15 years. I didn't really know anything about fundraising or how you do it, but I just said if if you need any help, I'm happy to happy to help. I think, yeah, I think one of the first things they did 5k, but run like running to me, I haven't run done any running since I was at school, and like running was a punishment to me. Because it's like when I was in school, yeah, it was like I would think teachers would wait till it was snowing, yeah, yeah, and then they'd say, Right, get your shorts and messed up.
SPEAKER_01:Going for another one.
SPEAKER_00:So it was like when I left school, it was like I'm never running again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh but but I did, and I did a I did a 5k to raise some funds, and I just said, What about running an event? You've got you know lots of contacts in manufacturing. Could we put an event on and and and do that? So I I did that. It wasn't really my thing, like networking and and that kind that kind of stuff. It you know, it's just like no, I've but I thought I'll do it, it's it's for a good it's for a good cause. So so we did it, and people enjoyed it, and and we and we carried we carried that on. So I think there were a few things all met at the same point. It it was meaningful in I was helping people. So then when we were running these networking events every month, we always invited a charity in. So it it just felt like the right thing to do that to give the local charities a voice, stuff some money in a pot, you know, you know, 10 quid, 20, 20 quid, wherever you you know you feel, and then we give that money to the to the charity. Um, but it was also helpful to the manufacturing businesses that were coming along in. We didn't write speakers in, and yeah, we just have pie and peas and a Natter, and we'd have someone come in who'd just share a few things that'd be helpful to people in the room. So there were, you know, there was I've always been manufacturing, so I was with my people, you know, my community of people I was helping, helping them. People were learning, we're bringing some different people in. So it's like lots of things that all just kind of met at that point, really. Yeah, um, which kind of sparked the journey that kind of kicked the manufacturers' alliance off.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it's a journey obviously you've been on some time, and and obviously you work with a lot of leaders. It's interesting what you said about that 5k piece as well, because it you know, you did that 5k because you had purpose. You your purpose was to to raise money, which gets you out in those cold days and those dark mornings where you don't want to do it. And it you know, you can tie that in, can't you, to to work, you know. To sometimes we need a goal and we need something to some greater good or some purpose to to get that get us to stretch beyond what we think we can do at the time. Because I'd imagine if someone said to you, Do you fancy a 5k? You'd probably said, No, not not for me. But obviously, I you must have found it easier in a way because you there was no way you were gonna quit, because that was your goal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because you're you're raising money for charity, aren't you? And even though I wasn't enjoying it, and so many mornings, it just crosses your mind where you think, there's gotta be a way out of this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't because of the because the fundraising had started, I told people, you know, I was doing it, so you can't you can't not do it then. Yeah, but I'm super grateful, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to do it because I I I carried on. I think it helped me to work on my mindset in a different way. And I think this self-talk that I had around I'm not a runner, I can't I can't run, I could never do that. I I'd got beyond that, I didn't get a particularly good time in my my 5k, and I suppose time didn't become a thing really in any of my running.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that was new goal, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but uh but I carried the running on, so I I took my running to uh doing ultras, so I went uh all the way up to kind of half marathons and then marathons, and then went beyond the marathon distance. So and if I hadn't done the the boarding of charity, I would have never have done that too.
SPEAKER_02:The journey of a thousand miles starts at a one step, wherever it is. You know what I mean? It's it's you've got to start somewhere, ain't you? I think you're right, you're hundreds right, though. People see themselves as something and see themselves as not something just because they've never done it. But you you know, you don't get there overnight. If someone said to you at the time, do an ultra it'd have taken do you know what I mean? You'd have probably thought, well, it's impossible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you'd just say you couldn't do that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, it's not for me. Yeah, it's uh no 100%. Out of the work, out of all the work you've done with the the manufacturers' lines, and this is I'd love to ask your uh your thoughts on this because even doing this podcast for the last four years, I I can see a clear change in leadership, and I can see the trends, and I can see you know emotional intelligence coming out, and I can see people get into leadership for different reasons now. What difference have you seen, or what what shift have you seen, and let's say, you know, within manufacturing leadership over the last 10-15 years? Have you seen a shift and a change?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I probably have in my little bubble, but I think in you know, in my own kind of lived experience, I have, you know, with the people I'm around, but I do I also hear you know stories from people in in other networks that are not are not experiencing the same as as I am. But yeah, I think where I where I've seen a a shift, which it is simply when the old guard are leaving, if I'm if I'm being honest. The the shift is usually when you know whether if it's a family business, you know, the the dad or the mum, whoever is moving on, and then you know the young next generation come through. Um and then you see us you see a step change you know in the in the style of leadership, you know, which is more in tune with or generational, I guess. Yeah, more more modern thinking, you know, they want to embrace tech, they're much more about you know, people and it and I'm and they'll get to a point, won't they, where the next generation comes through will be saying, get them out and then let's all about AI now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's modernize. So yeah, so so yeah, I think there's there's always that that shift. But but I would say, yeah, if there's if there are things that are shifting or the all they need to, it would be around embracing tech and and people, which is something which the people and culture and leading better seems to have always been there, really. Um I was looking this morning, uh just having a bit of a ponder on you know, just some of the trends. Um and there was the McLeod report. So this is 2009, I think. So this was uh like a government piece of research into productivity in the in the UK, and what what do we need to do in this country to improve productivity? And the knob of it was there was a correlation between employer engagement and productivity. The higher employer engagement is, the higher the productivity is in a in a business. Okay, so what do we do about that? So there was uh and I think it was titled Engage for Success, and it it was it was fantastic, it was a brilliant report, lots of clear direction in terms of what we need what we need to do. But then it just kind of it it kind of fizzles away, you know, years pass by, a decade passes by, and you think, What whatever happened to to that? And then there was a made smarter of you, which was led by Jurgen Meyer, uh, which found the same things. So there was the kind of digital bit that came from from Jurgen, you know, from his background with Siemens, but he also identified leadership needs to improve within manufacturing, you know, to get the productivity output that we uh that we need. So that that seems to be something that we never seem to have ever really fully resolved, you know, like as a as a country, you know, as a kind of great leadership in this country.
SPEAKER_02:It's because there's always, you know, right now, I guess, manufacturing is probably going through more change than it has done in a in a long, long time. You know, we've seen companies that either either change them because they they need to or change because they want to, but they're going through drastic change in some situations where they're cutting the payroll, they're cutting the headcount, the the moving towards automation, um, you know, the the the margins are getting squeezed, you know, all this type of stuff. And uh it's almost like do they have the luxury to go, well, we've got to look at staff engagement. But actually, everything that you say, it all comes back to that. But in the moment, when you're looking, when a leader's looking for the PL, or they're just going, right, they need to do this, do that, they're then going, Well, we need to buy this bit of kit because that always used this. Where actually it sounds like the real step change so will always have to be the engagement of staff and how you're gonna how you're gonna work with them. It's just a weird moment now, didn't it? I've are you seeing a lot of change in your in your um network, would you say?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I suppose in within the manufacturers alliance, that's the core of it. You know, uh everyone uh you know, everyone's a learner, everyone's keen to change, you know. They they they you know they want to think yeah, they get involved with us because they want change, you know, like personally and for the team and the and their organisation. So we're lucky really, you know, so we're surrounded by people who are on that that change journey. Not not that it's easy and there's lots of challenges and blockers and things people need to work through, but but they're on it and that's and that's what what they want. And you think it's unfortunate we have we just have a way of approaching this in quite a reactive way. I think some people are probably a bit too a bit too late to to react to it that you're never gonna catch it up, you know, you've stopped investing in capital equipment, you haven't trained your people for at least a decade. Yep, but if you've lost that much ground, it's then you know, trying to catch up. You know, the other people in the sector have gone 10 years ahead of you, it's it's a losing battle, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:100%, exactly that. What would you know if uh if a company joined the alliance now and and perhaps were behind the step change and that they've you know they've all they've just gotten on the fact they need to do something, otherwise they're gonna be in trouble. What do you think are the first things that you would work with them on to you know that what would it be, I guess, to to start that step change? Because it's not it's not an overnight thing, is it that it's gonna take some time to do well?
SPEAKER_00:I mean you've got a problem, it has to be has to be the start with it. Um I think coming along to one of our peer groups or you know, leadership development programmes and pretending you know you've got it all nailed on and everything's okay. It's that's just not gonna help, is it? For us, we need authenticity, we need a humility piece. Yeah, you need people who show up and say, it you know, these bits we're brilliant at, but you know, for being honest, these bits are not, and we need some we need some help. And I mean there might be some blind spots that you know people are not not aware of, but I I think typically people do know where they're struggling.
SPEAKER_02:I mean they might not have a solution for it, but come come along and just just be honest, which which I think segues in nicely because I I I guess there's a lot of companies out there who work purely on leadership, purely on the the strategy side, they're purely on the lean side, they look at automation. What you do is is is that and more, and it's probably the more bit I want to talk about because you do something which you're passionate about in a line to your vision, your purpose, which is to do exactly that, to try to reaffirm and get them to understand their own values and their purpose, and you do that in quite uh an authentic way, by the sounds of it, which I'm really interested in because I think people will be interested in how you do that, but actually, I'm I'm sure there'll be lessons that they can learn that they can start their own journey, you know, initially before doing something as as as big as that. Talk me through the the retreats, Gary, and and what happens on there and and the the realizations people tend to come out with off of that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a good question. We're I think we've talked about this before. Our retreats are a bit of a secret, we don't we don't we don't want to tell anyone, but um but yeah I think we've gotta get we've gotta get better at at that. The so for for our our peer groups, you know, every year we we go away and we have a we have a couple of days away and we call it a retreat, and I suppose first time people come along. They think they're gonna have, you know, a dressing gown and slippers on and be sat in a spa all day. And it yeah, it's not not that kind of retreat. It's yeah, it's quite an intense couple of days. I suppose it's like just deep, deep learning, really. And it's it's learning about yourself, um, an opportunity in a safe space, you know, with other like-minded people to to be open and honest and get that I suppose real genuine support from from people who want to champion you as well, you know, over a couple of days with with people who care about you, who will listen, but but also nudge you towards, you know, maybe maybe where you need to be need to be going. So it's a reflective couple of days. But as I was saying with the the book reading, there's there's gotta be an output as well. So it's you know, it yeah, there's some opportunities to to reflect and learn about yourself, and we have some different ways of approaching that. But there's gotta be a and so what to it.
SPEAKER_02:Because I think for our customers, I think just going off and reflecting for a couple of days it wouldn't be beneficial, I'm sure, but they'd be kind of like I kinda I need something to not do not push outside the comfort zone, which which ultimately I guess we need to be pushed outside our comfort zone as leaders, I think, to challenge ourselves to to the whole point is we need to think differently, don't we? And and and and uh realign some something that's not in the right not not where it should be, I guess, at the moment.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh well, I think as we progress, you know, with our careers, uh I think for some people they they haven't been in a learning environment for for quite some time. So so the retreats are good good for that, you know, to just get back into learning about yourself, you know, what what is it that I I really want? You know, what what are my values? You know, sometimes they they change, don't they, or over over time, you know, you you reassess your values and they're they're a bit different than they were 10 years ago, 20, 20 years ago. So it's and that that's what you know, fulfillment, you know, joy, passion, um, you know, all the good things that come out of the things that you connect with, uh when you connect through your values, you know. I think when when you're living and breathing your own your own values is when life just feels so much better. If you don't if you don't know what they are and you don't have a reflect on that, yeah, then you you're just jumping from one thing to another and saying, oh, it's not that and it's not it's not this.
SPEAKER_02:Apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider, specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialize in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ Exec search arm of the business, both from the contract and permit side. We offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for heart of full roles or a full partnership service where we become an extension of your business. For any information, please get in touch with me or the team. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thank you. I've seen, I think, you know, you look at 20 years ago, people worked themselves by reading books. You know, that was the way. People went, you know, there was this was the age before podcasts, and the and the internet was as good as what it is, all this type of stuff. People read books and and and that worked. I'm seeing a different um journey now for people that are self-development. You know, you've seen people journaling, you've seen people meditating, you've seen people doing ice baths, you've seen people, I guess, get outside their comfort zone and and challenge themselves. And and you know, people I mean, I'll put myself in that boat. You know, I'm I'm a normal lad from Sheffield, you know. I have all those things I've just said, I either do on a regular basis or I do from time to time to realign certain things. I never thought I'd I'd be someone who did that. Have you seen that change? Would you say over the last sort of five years where people are on a slightly different forcing themselves almost to try to find what they feel like they need they want to find?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I suppose that's that's partly what we force onto people, I suppose. We I think with particularly with the retreats, and and well, I think even with some of the peer group meetings, some of the things we expose people to, you're not you're not ever gonna Google it or probably give it a give it a go yourself, unless someone says it's right here now in front of you, yeah. G you know, give give give it a go. So, you know, for when we do the retreats, as you you know, as you mentioned, we we might do some meditation, but in a similar to yourself, I'm just I'm a working class lad from Bolton, you know. And I just I explain things in my Bolton accent, yeah, in an I hopefully in an accessible way. You know, I've been meditating for a long time, and uh I don't try and make it something that that isn't, you know, I just use simple language and try and explain it in a way that that just helps people access it and then they you know they give it a go. And for a lot of people, it's the first time they've ever done it, and that they're like, Do you know what I didn't expect that if you'd have said we were meditating, I'd have probably looked at a way of getting out of it. Yeah. But actually, having the experience of it, I found some value in it, and I'm really glad I've given it, giving it a go. So I think I think that's why I was saying with with the retreat stuff, we tend to keep things a secret. Because if we tell people what it is, just start overthinking it and they'll just be like, oh no, that's not gonna work.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, it's that the element of surprise. I get that because you get I guess you're either with meditating, you're either in the camp of you're very much in it and you see a benefit, or you know, people just do that because they're just whatever. Again, it's it's it's talking yourself out of I'm not one of them, those people, instead of just of and actually meditating is interesting because the first time you do it, you you might find crap that does nothing for me that until you realise that it's actually a skill, and the whole point, the whole point in meditating is you're not probably potentially not very good at clearing your mind because you're always thinking about the stuff. So the first 10 times you do it, you're probably gonna be crap at it because the whole point because you've not mastered the art of being able to calm your mind, and that's the whole point, in it. I think, and even if you don't do it for then three months, you go back to not being able to clear your mind. And and I've had these conversations at work with with my staff who were struggled with certain things, and yeah, and you do, you know, sometimes you get you because you just know thinking, nah. So but others when they do try it and they persist with it, it's amazing that the difference. Same with you know, I've I've had cold showers for three years now. Try to tell someone struggling to jump in a cold shower, see what response you get. You know what I mean? It's just not gonna happen, but like particularly when it when they're by themselves at home, it's different in a group environment, I guess, where it probably feels a bit a bit safer in that sense. So there's a there's a little bit of sort of mob mentality to do it together, I imagine.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But but I think in our world of manufacturing, I think people want they want the evidence, don't they? They want they they want the evidence, they want the the benefits. You know, what what's the what's the point of it? And I think probably over the last five to ten years, I think there's a lot there's a lot more evidence. I think there's there's a lot more well the evidence has probably always been there, but I think that there's a lot more of that that's out in the public domain, yeah, of like you say, cold showers, ice baths, meditating, journaling. It's it's not some kind of secret club anymore, is it? Or just you know, just things that Buddhists do. It's a lot, you know, it's a lot more accessible. But it's no different to the 5k, is it? You know, it you know, when you first start, it's it's hard, isn't it? And it you just think, what's the point? You know, it's rubbish this, and it just takes a while, doesn't it? And meditating's the same. To expect to do it once and you know, connect with God or something, it's just not yeah, yeah, it's not gonna happen, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know you, but I I meditate to feel calmer. I have cold showers because I hate doing them, and I and personally, I know it sounds a bit like a bit sort of Instagram-y, but I I do it for the sole reason that I don't want to do it, and then when I do it, I feel like right, it's it's seven o'clock in the morning, I've I've at least achieved something I didn't want to do, and it just makes the rest of the day a little bit easier. But it's you know, it's when I first started, five seconds was impossible. Do you know what I mean? I never thought I could ever get the 30 seconds, you just you just build it up. The whole point is you want to make it harder and harder to continually challenge yourself exactly at the 5k because now for you to do a 5k now, easy because you've done 50 you've done you've done 60k runs. Do you know what I mean? But it's just it's relevant to where you are at that moment in time, isn't it? Essentially, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that's I think with ours, the types of things that we do around that, it's very much at the beginner stage, you know, first time doing something, so it's so it's not you know going a shower for five minutes, it's you know, it would be like five seconds, so yeah, it's a dip of towing. See uh you know how the experiences and what you could benefit from it, and then it's brilliant because I think for for us, there's so many people who've adopted you know certain practices, and I have one of our customers who who wrote to me a couple of couple of weeks ago, which was absolutely brilliant because it was a handwritten letter. Um, we we'd introduced them to a particular journaling technique on a on a retreat, and it and it's just been life-changing. And and they wrote to me to just say not only that, I think you know, other things that you know we've supported them with of just how life-changing it's been. But it was good that they used that practice of yeah, you know, write writing a handwritten letter, which is very moving, actually, to receive a handwritten letter from someone who who's benefited so much. And it's just it's just great if you can connect people with something, you know, that really kind of shifts them on.
SPEAKER_02:Can you share any because journaling is something again, which which some people do, some people don't, and some people won't understand the benefits of it. Can you share any um thoughts on to someone who's never journaled? Do you know what I mean? Like what how would they start to that process of and and and when would they when do you think they would maybe start to see some results from it, but just feel something different, I guess, from it to some extent?
SPEAKER_00:Um I think one of the things it's helped me with is really reduced my overthinking. So if I if I went back like big increments, I went back ten years, I probably just overthought everything, just just too much. Um well actually for the first ever meeting that we had, so when we when I first launched the manufacturers lines, the first ever peer group was a pile of tests to this may or may not work. A room full of manufacturing companies, and I'd I'd scripted like literally from the moment I walked in to when I left, I'd wrote every word I was gonna say. It was that's how much I was overthinking it. That I had to have every you know, every everything I was gonna say at every point. Yeah, and it made it worse because it's like as soon as you're then you're off script, you're like, I'm cocking this up. I mean, no one else knows you've got a script, do they? But so it's I think it's definitely helped with with that. Um so I think in terms of techniques that are useful, um just writing down the things that are on your mind, which is something that we did on a recent retreat of you're right at the start of the couple of days. What are the things that you're you know worried about, things that are bothering you? You know, we have all got stuff, you know, in life that what are some of the things that maybe you're carrying in to this couple of days? Um just just write it down, jot it down on a on a sheet of paper, and some people filled two sheets of A4 and some people had half a dozen things that they were they're worried about. And what we then did just to because it's the kind of giving the kind of monkey mind something to to play with, we then gave people uh like what's just something really easy that's not in the slightest bit challenging that you could write against each of these things that you that you're worried about. So it might be I'm just fed up with where we live, we need to move, you know, the house isn't big enough or it's too big for us now, you know, whatever the reason is. So the the immediate thing is you people are already solution mode.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's the 25 different things that need to be done, but get just give yourself something really simple like go and have a look on right move, or you know, whatever something that's not overly taxing as the as your next step. So write that against everything that's on on your list. And then we'd like physically folded up that piece of paper, put it in a jar, and like literally left it at the door. So we're gonna leave that jar at the door now for the next two days. But when we're leaving, when you say who wants these back, no, no one no one wanted it back. But it's it's just a technique that initially just gives you an opportunity to do a brain dump, you know, just get get the stuff that's on your mind out of your head and onto paper. And and sometimes that might take 20-30 minutes of just sitting there and have I got everything, is everything out now? And I think for a lot of like logical people, you know, engineers, people who like solving problems, once it's out there, yeah, it's like right now, I know what I'm dealing with. But when you leave it all up here and it's all just whizzing round, it's all muddled up and and clouded, it just just very chattery, isn't it? It just doesn't stop.
SPEAKER_02:Probably particularly particularly for men. I mean, I have uh I journal from time and time now. I used to journal every day, and I've probably got I get like anything, I guess you decide what works for you, and um I probably found that trap of going, I must have a cold shower every day. I must and it almost became overwhelming, these things I feel like I must do, and then over time you find what routine works for you. Now I use it as a tool for to exactly what you just said there to get the if if me too much stuff in my head, get it out. Because I think as blokes, we're not we're not great talkers. Like my wife's great at talking about stuff, and and and always says to me, never talk about work. I always go, Well, I don't want to, do you know what I mean? Like I quite like switching off, but actually, there is some stuff there I need to just get out. And we had we had a personal uh family situation um about a month ago, and and it was her worry because her family, but it was worrying me. And actually, what helped me was just I actually got my phone and for half an hour just typed everything. Do you know what I mean? I just felt better because that was my equivalent of of what typically traditionally, I'm serious, but what women are very good at when they get together and just talk, we do we we bolt up and just pretend to alright, don't we? So I think I think particularly for men, journaling is is very impactful, and then you can do the I know people benefit off the gratitude peace and all that type of stuff. So I it's amazing this sort of stuff because I don't think these conversations would have been had 15 years ago. Do you know what I mean? I don't think the U and me, you know, the version of you and me sat here talking about this type of stuff because it does work and and there's no fear anymore in saying this stuff, which in itself is a is a real plus, and I think it's it links in with that mental health piece, which unfortunately there is a rise, I would still say, and I think that's because the the pressures of to society and to be someone now, whether it be social media, mate. And again, what what are your thoughts on that mental health piece? Do you see the direct correlation between generational change and increase in mental health, would you say?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think there's this you know, keeping up with what's what I don't know if what they say where you you're from, but it's we call it keeping up with the Joneses, yeah. Yeah, so it so it's it's like societal norms and trying to keep up with you know what yeah, the perception of what everyone else is doing, as opposed to just living your own authentic life. And I think with like like you say, go back 15-20 years, we won't be having this conversation. Well, there was no social media, there was there was no basics. Yeah, I was quite a late adopter for having a phone. Like for me, if I'm out and about, I'm out, so I I don't want contacting. That's what that's why that's why I don't have a phone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, so there's been a quite a shift, haven't there, in terms of you know, everyone living is living the best life on you know, Instagram and TikTok and all these platforms, aren't they? That you know, generally you're posting your good pictures, aren't you, the good times that you're you're having. So I think, yeah, I think for some people that can maybe feel I'm not I'm not keeping up with with all that. Um but but I but I do think that's where things like you know, the journaling, meditation, really getting to know yourself, help, because I suppose it you you s you see all that stuff for what it for what it is, and it's like no, I'm gonna do me. Yeah, I'm gonna focus on what's meaningful to me, and that's that's good enough.
SPEAKER_02:100% completely agree. I'd like to finally ask you this, okay, Gary, about um I guess a lot of stuff we're talking about here is is leadership and personal journey and you know the mentality piece. Um, but I guess one thing that's I've seen a real shift in is in is that the importance of emotional intelligence, and again, something that's probably previously not talked about, it now is is a massive part of leadership, and um, you know, now you know an academia within leadership is is you know, links in with the emotional intelligence piece. If a leader hasn't got a good grasp on that, and perhaps you've helped them realign the values and and uh it's their first journey into emotional intelligence, how do they start that journey to to understand and and uh perhaps reassess that emotional intelligence piece in terms of where they're at? What do you say?
SPEAKER_00:Well I suppose just like simplify what what it is because I think there's you know there's buzzwords, you know, uh and I think emotional intelligence has potentially become a become a buzzword. So so I think for for me emotional intelligence is about understanding yourself and and how you how you feel uh and what's meaningful and important to you and your own values, but but also understanding other other people. So so if where we started our conversation, you know, about leading leading teams, it you need to be able to understand what makes other people tick and understand that not everyone has the same same values, you know, we're all different, and that's brilliant, you know, that we're all unique and and different. So so I think for emotional intelligence for me is about that. self-understanding but I I think through the journey of self understanding you get to you get to better understand other people. Um I mean I had a conversation with someone I think is it early this week late last week j just about some emotions came up for for them and it it was a bit scary because they felt out of control that you know these emotions started started bubbling up and it it isn't it and uh to me this it goes you know back to the meditation other things it it's just being comfortable with however you feel and it's okay to feel sad or happy or angry you know or whatever whatever comes up it's all okay isn't it because it's just being a it's just being a human you know that we have a whole spectrum of of emotions but I think with some brilliant work that you know Breni Brown's done that's been around for some some time you know and that's when we when we numb our emotions and this is usually what people can relate to we have vices that we we don't want to feel certain things so we don't want to feel sad or guilt or shame or inadequate. So we use you know drink or drugs or eating or or other forms of addiction you know which think work is is one of those things for for some people um you know what working working too much. So so we we have these vices that we start we start numbing but you can't so what one of the things that Breni Brown always shows you can't selectively numb so you can't just say well I won't have the bad feelings I'll just have the good ones so when you start numbing you numb everything. Yeah so it so it all it all disappears so it's it's how how do we support people with because I'm sure you know if you if you if you're addicted to to something you've got a vice so so how do we help create those spaces that people can be authentic and share openly that you admit you've got a problem and then it makes it easier for helping people then because it's like none of us are perfect right now I know this is me but if it's a safe enough space that people can say this is where I am which I do believe we've got with our peer groups then it makes it far easier for helping someone isn't it but that's that's that's as I'm I've experienced myself you know I I'm sure I've as well matt it's very difficult to you know to share some of these things so you need to feel that it's this is a you know real safe environment for me to be open honest.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah which I guess is why you do what you do ultimately to create to help people create those environments not only for themselves but but their teams as well which is which is important thing for people listening who have teams is that their job isn't always to just inspire and and tell people the strategy it's to create that environment where they can allow them to be how they need to be in the moment I guess yeah yeah that's that safety in in the workplace goes beyond the making sure there's no trip ads it's it's it's psychological safety isn't it as well that people feel which is really unfortunate but so many people feel they can't be themselves at work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah which I think is so so sad that when we're not allowing people to be the whole selves at work it's yeah it's in I also much aren't we but I'd not create those environments for people.
SPEAKER_02:100% which I guess you take that right back to those reports you read about that staff engagement. How do you engage staff let them have a voice and let them be the self essentially yeah and then the productivity and the output should should in theory follow but it's not easy it's not always that simple is it it's it's simple to do report about it but the work you're doing and the work people need to start doing themselves that that's where the real change is to to to to change the culture in a business I guess essentially isn't it yeah yeah if people aren't being open honest and and and sharing openly you never really know what it is you're dealing with do you yeah but I think what you know I think that's the real level isn't it if we're all open you know it's a safe enough environment that we can truly say what we think and feel then we always know what we're dealing with.
SPEAKER_00:There's no curveballs or hidden stuff is there it's it's it's all out there.
SPEAKER_02:So we've got to create those right environments to to build on it's a proper solid foundation isn't it like a safe environment for people is a solid foundation to build on I think people are sometimes worried to get their team together and create an environment which is open because they're probably scared of what they might say which in itself is a is a problem that again is dulling the is dulling down the problem in team because if you're not allowing people to be honest about what the issues are you're not gonna find the solutions for them are you so it's simple as that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah well you need to be humble don't you not none of us have got none of us have got it perfect have we anyone who's leading a a team will you know will be open honest about the things that are working and the the bits that are not so yeah you you've got you've got to be humble and and you've got to say that you know these are the bits that are not working for me. But I don't I think it we're probably just lacking the the those spaces aren't we for people to do that. Because we've probably got people listen to this and say I would I would love you know to have somewhere that I could go and say you know these are my these are some of my problems but where do you go? Yeah yeah exactly exactly that um I'll summarise in a second it's tremendous Jerry but what where can people find you or where can people learn more about the manufacturers alliance and and the work you do what's the best best best place to go probably LinkedIn it's probably the most active yeah yeah if you search the Manufacturers alliance or such search for me uh you'll find what what I'm doing and what we're doing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah perfect man well well thank you for this because look it's been it's been really important I think obviously we have various different episodes on on this podcast and a lot of them are about building businesses a lot a lot of them about their their own unique management journey but this has felt really important to me because you know you take everything you know the your your 5k it wasn't analogy it was real but you take that analogy and you can you can use that to discuss everything we've talked about about starting somewhere to build what you want to build you know whether whether that be college hours whether whether that be meditation whether that be journaling whether that be leading your team your own emotional intelligence journey you have to start somewhere and somewhere small but you also need to know where you're going and for you that goal was 5k next it might be a 100k run. Whatever it is it's your own personal journey which in itself is also really important and I think you know for me I always think of this stage of the episode at the end where I talk about my my own takeaways I do a lot of the stuff that we that we talked about here because I've been on that journey but sometimes when I veer off I get out of the routine it's probably because I've I've probably gone a little bit uh uh uh where I need to be in terms of what is my goal what strategy and why am I doing it and ultimately I think we need that you know we all need and everyone who works for someone needs to know and understand what they're aiming for and that might not be a a numerical goal for some people that that might be a that might be a safe space that might be a creating environment where they feel that they're progressing their team how they need to progress them and and be the leader they want to they want to be authentically so um so thanks for this bit guy it's been really really interesting and really powerful and um you know I love what you do because as I say you get people who take people on retreats and so and so and that's their thing in different walks of life you get people who work with manufacturing leaders on strategy. I love the fact you've combined that all together so you work on them and their leadership you work on their strategy but you also challenge them to get out their out the cover zone.
SPEAKER_00:So um hope we hope we haven't gone away too many secrets so please uh please go to achieve that um but no thank you mate it's been it's been great really enjoyed it yeah can I can I just add something just I suppose there's the perception when we look on things like LinkedIn you know like Google you know the Manufacturers alliance or whatever and you you know you see the profile of a company and you think oh look at this all the great posts they're doing and I think sometimes it's a blocker for people to start the journey with you know this whatever the thing is that they need to focus on you know I need to develop my leadership skills or you know we need to do something with our strategy or get our people more engaged.
SPEAKER_02:Those businesses that you see on LinkedIn that your perception is of doing well are probably in one of our peer groups and saying about all the challenges they've got and it it's only when people make that leap and do something I don't want to say it has to be our peer groups there's loads of things out there that people sit there and they say I can't believe I didn't do this years ago because those people that there's a there's the kind of LinkedIn but then there's a reality when you meet the people running the businesses where it's like God they've just got as many just as many problems as we have exactly that it's it's like you're on Instagram you think the the the what the the couple are on the Facebook Instagram for these tremendous things that are often the ones that break up you think never saw that coming yeah because you people just show the show one side of their life or the business that they want to show and look that that is business we have to sell it but 100% right you know it's the these are this companies that are are working on themselves whether that be as a business or their their own leaders in isolation so massively I really hope this episode has just kicked someone on to go yeah and I I I need to re-realign where we're at or where I'm at and I'm gonna do something about it and um yeah I I I know someone listening will do that. I hope they do brilliant thank you Mark thanks Gary thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast please just like or subscribe it really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James as I mentioned midway through the episode please get in touch with me or the team I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business we are more than just a recruiter and I know people say that but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums on seats approach. We want to help people grow we want to help improve their lives and ultimately I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people please get in touch with me or the team I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much speak soon