What Great Leadership Really Looks Like in the Modern Workplace

In the latest episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast, Mark is joined by Krystina Snowden, HR Manager at Blachford, for an honest and insightful conversation about what modern leadership really looks like - and why people-first cultures matter more than ever.

Together they explore how leadership has evolved from command-and-control management to creating safe, supportive environments where people are encouraged to grow, learn from mistakes, and ultimately thrive. 

Krystina shares her journey into HR, the realities of managing people in manufacturing environments, and why the best leaders aren’t afraid of developing people who may one day take their place.

The conversation dives into key workplace challenges including:

• The importance of strong onboarding and early support
• Why training managers in people skills is just as vital as technical ability
• How businesses can create more open cultures around mental health
• The role HR plays in empowering managers rather than just enforcing policy
• Why trust, communication, and giving people a genuine voice drives retention and engagement 

From mental health awareness to employee forums, from difficult conversations to building trust at every level of a business, this episode is packed with practical insights for leaders, HR professionals, and anyone responsible for building stronger teams.

A thoughtful, real-world discussion on how leadership done well doesn’t just improve performance - it changes lives.

Tune in to learn how robust HR practices and leadership approaches can transform workplace culture. 

Click here to connect with Krystina on LinkedIn.

Please like and subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.

Theo James is a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. 

If you’d like more information about Theo James, feel free to get in touch with the team or Mark anytime.

You can call us on 0191 511 1298. 

Transcript

Welcome & Episode Preview

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to an episode of the Manifacts News Podcast with me, Mark Bracknell, my director of Theo Change Recruitment. Today we welcome Christina Snowden, the HR manager of Blatchford, UK, based in Chesterfield. Couldn't wait to have Christina on. I really enjoy episodes which are HR-related because I always feel that the discussions we have are important, powerful, and very tangible. And this was definitely no different. I thoroughly enjoyed it. We talked about absolutely loads. Just some of the takeaways would be retention and the importance of having a thorough and proper onboarding process in that first six months to improve retention. And Christina gave some really valuable tips and takeaways from this. Also talking about the importance of bringing problems or bringing that say problems, bringing issues to HR's door before they become a problem, because then it's too late. And we talked about the evolution of how the HR role has changed within that, definitely more people-led, but still, it is an issue where problems are brought to HR's door, which should be the case, which links in nicely to actually the importance of training managers and empowering managers and allowing managers to work uh as successfully as possible with their team. And we acknowledge the difficult job that can be becoming from an engineer, let's say, to a manager. So the absolute importance to have training there before we went on to discuss some real important meaty topics like mental health and how managers can look for mental health issues and build that into their routine. So it was a this was a really, really important podcast episode to do, but one of those where you're going to take away lots of tips and takeaways, which I certainly did as well. So thank you very much, Christina. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please sit back and listen. And as ever, please just click that like and subscribe and share it. Anything you can do to help grow the show. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoy the episode. A massive warm welcome today to Christina Snowden, the HR manager at Blatchford, which this episode has been a long time coming for whatever reason. We've been rescheduled a couple of times, but I'm really looking forward to it. So uh morning, Christina, how are you? You alright?

What Leadership Means Today

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Good morning. Yes, I'm very well. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yes, I'll thank you very much for coming on. Load to talk about. Um, first question is the same question I ask everyone, which is uh, what does it mean to you to be a leader?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

So a couple of different things, really. Um I think being a leader, the most important um trait that you need to have is essentially allowing people to make mistakes, um, helping them learn, helping them grow, making um an environment that's safe and welcoming. Um and I think the biggest one for me is not fearing someone's growth. So, you know, if you think, oh, they're gonna be better than me, like that should be welcomed, you should want that in your team.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Um, so yeah, just just allowing people that space to grow and and uh yeah, I like I I like the bit and obviously and we spoke about quite a bit in that podcast about the the safe safe place in safe space. And I really like that because I think that's probably where management and leadership has uh has evolved and it links in nicely with that most intelligence piece. But I I just to sort of um highlight what you said there about the not being scared of their growth, because that's I like that because that is, isn't it, that there's sometimes something in certain managers that'll think they might take my job, but actually Yeah, they kind of feel threatened. Yeah, uh-huh. Where if they are at the stage where they are ready to take your job, you've you've done you've done a good job to do that, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

That is what a leader is to me. It's getting someone ready to essentially take over your role or move on.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah, which I guess right businesses will acknowledge that and try to create opportunities. And even within flat structures, really, you know, certain businesses might go, well, we haven't got a progression, progression. But actually, if organically that's working, so the person you are training is becoming more senior, and it could be a sidestep, or just could be progression in your role as a HR leader manager to to bring someone on alongside you and do a different part of the job, can't it?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Absolutely. And there's um a lady who I worked with uh a few years back, she told me a quote, I think it was from Richard Branson, um, something along the lines of you want to train people so well that they could work anywhere, but treat them even better that they choose to stay. And that's kind of that's what it is to be a leader in my head.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, I love that I love that quote. Company it is in it, because he was almost one of the first really to to almost make that a big thing, you know, to treat in the sounds tough to make employees right, but it wasn't do you know what I mean? It was yeah, you were you went historically, I guess, and let's look at manufacturing example, massive big payrolls, big workforces. You went there to do your job, you know, and you you did your job, you went home. I think that has changed for a in a in a good positive way now that your job is important and you need to be recognized and you need to be, you need to have a voice and all the stuff, you know. Thankfully, now we hear people talking about it's now become the norm. And if you haven't, if you're not getting that, then people leave. Some as that, and they're yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

That's what people want, that's what people crave. Yeah, which I think as a leader as well, you can do two different things. You can lead from the front, which I think you should be doing to start with, and then you could you should kind of progress back and then leave lean lead from the back and just say, you know, I've got your back, you go ahead. Yeah, like I've got you, I'm supporting you from from the back.

Falling Into HR And Rethinking The Stereotype

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, because exactly that as a as a leader, it's not all about doing everything yourself, isn't it? It it's it's hiring up people, training up people, and sometimes you hard job easier get out of the way, let them do it for you. It's it's um it's almost like uh it's like an ego thing, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? That and and and and that can be hard, even if you're not an egotistical person, it's still uh an ego thing wanting it and to be good at something and feeling like you're good at something, and someone else doing that, that's that's quite challenging, yeah at first. Um, but no, I completely agree. Well, out of interest, because you you know, you HR again is one of those some people fall into it, some people train for it. What what sort of led you to the the world of HR?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Oh, this is so funny. So I'll learn I'll not bore you with the the length of this story, but I did basically just fall into it.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Um so I was uh I was in the police for a few years prior, and the reason I left the police was because I was too busy doing paperwork and it used to really annoy me. I just wanted to be out on the streets. So then I left, and then I just did uh how old was I? I'm 19. Um, and I just went on to total jobs and just pressed apply for absolutely every single role. Um, went for a couple of interviews, got invited back for a second interview, um, didn't know what the job was, went for that interview, got offered the job, I accepted the job, and I still didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Just not what I'm doing now, that's enough.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

It wasn't until the contract and the offer letter got sent through the post. Oh my mom HR admin. Yeah and then honestly, I just I fell in love with it straight away. And I think this is most people do just fall into it and fall in love with it. Um, like any job, don't get me wrong, there's there's uh pros and cons, and some days you'll be on really good highs and other days you'll be on really bad lows. Um, but no, I absolutely love it. It's the people side of things for me that that keeps me going.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

How have you seen your role of all? I guess what's the what's the biggest thing that surprised you, I guess, in terms of what you do now versus what you thought you might do?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Um, so I think the stereotypical view of HR is you hire and you fire and you pay people. You know, pay-rollers sometimes fall in. Um, and essentially that's what I thought it was. You know, as a 19-year-old, I was like, I'm gonna be hiring people, I'm gonna be smacking people, I was gonna bring me. Um, but it's really not like we try and do everything that we possibly can to ensure that that person doesn't lose the job. Um, so like if a manager comes to us and says, you know, this person's not performing, um, they're not up to scratch, we need to get rid of them. We will then turn around to them and say, Well, have you trained them? Show me the training documents, have they been um properly enrolled? And you know, do they know exactly what it is that they're doing? And then we'll work with that manager then to ensure that they are trained and that they've got all the skills that they need. And then don't get me wrong, sometimes we do see people that just don't pick it up, and despite everything, unfortunately we do have to let them go, which we don't take joy in. Um, but then you know, nine times out of ten, you see you do see people pick up.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah, yeah, 100%. But you're right there, it's interesting because I think again, previously, HR was a place where people sent people to because they they didn't want to deal with it, because it was either typically a discipline or or a or a dismissal or something which was negative and HR can deal with that. I I'm I've definitely seen that change now. When you mention yourself there, it's I guess it's empowering and training your hiding managers to do that. Have you seen a real shift in the last sort of five, ten years of that?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, I mean, I've I like to do um so every position I've ever worked in or every company I've ever been in, um I've essentially taken HR training from managers with me. Um, and I do things such as like how to hold a difficult conversation, how to interview, um, how to do an investigation meeting, how to hold the disciplinary, um, and all those things. Like, I think these are skills that when you become a manager, you don't realise that you're you're a people manager, you just think you're a production manager or you know, just looking after production, whereas actually 90% of your role is people.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yeah.

Training Managers To Lead People

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Um, so it's allowing them that's them skills, and then they absolutely just thrive off it, and you can see the change uh immediately. It's little things like why do I have to do a return to work with someone if they're back, they're obviously fit to return, and it's it's like understanding what medication they're on, do they need light duties? And there's all loads of different aspects to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I I'll hold my hands up that one as well because the so Kaylee is our operations, but all took us required, you know, there's only 15 of us, so she's an HR person on the site as well. And um the the return to work, I was a bit like we don't get much sickness, like it's very rare. Do we do we do it? But the couple occasions where you can see actually now you can see a potential pattern, or actually you can pick there's a there's an issue up and it might not not not be a negative issue, it might be something going on at home, whatever you can pick it up, exactly because suddenly there's a the there's a trail, but in the moment, sometimes it just feels like you're going through the motion. So yeah, I I get that.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

It's like with sickness, like like absence, for example. You know, this person's is off every Monday or is off every Wednesday. But have you asked him why or her why?

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Um, you know, the there might be a really good employer that never has time off, and then all of a sudden start taking a load of time off. Then as a manager, they become a pain. Yeah, but really, you just need to have that discussion to understand what it is. You know, it might be something like my car's broken down and I have to start getting the bus now, and the bus is 10 minutes late every day, and that's why I'm there.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Have that having that conversation can massively open your eyes, and supporting that employee makes a massive difference as well because then they don't feel like they're just coming to work, they actually want to come.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, 100%. Feel supported and valued. That first six months is crucial, I think, in any any industry, particularly let's look at manufacturing. And I think if you look at the the figures behind people that leave the business, it's normally that first six months. And I think people put a lot of blame on the the the actual employee in that situation and maybe don't look internally. What are your thoughts about that that initial six months in the workplace?

SPEAKER_01 11:15

So I would agree, I think a lot of it is the employee, employer's problem. Um I think, especially when you've got someone who's just starting, you know, they may, depending on what role they're in, they may have a three-month notice period. So, you know, you've not you may you may not have spoken to them from the point in which you offered them the job to the point in which you walk through the door, they walk through the door and they're feeling a little bit lost, a little bit nervous, a bit unsure. Whereas I think if you have a really good onboarding process where you're talking to them throughout the probation their um notice period, um even if it's just four weeks, you know, just that com communication to make people feel valued, then they they come to work on that very first day feeling like they know people or they know where they're going, they know what they're doing. Um, and you know, I mentioned training earlier, it's like buddying people, so making sure that they've got that one person who they can rely on, essentially shadow, and they've got that that support there from day one. Um, I do think on onboarding is a massive, massive thing. And I do think a lot of people leave within the first six months because of poor onboarding.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, I completely and we and we see it, you know. We obviously see it that you know, we will take some for a full process. It could be and the thing is it's it's typically can be a really good business. It can be a good business hitting all the targets and and and everything they promised them in the job could come to fruition. But it it if little things like the contract isn't right or they haven't got a contract or or the or the you know the the clothes haven't arrived or the all that type of stuff, it can throw you, can't it?

Return-To-Work, Absence Patterns, And Conversations

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Absolutely, yeah. And it's something that you know what might be little to you and I, such as getting them the uniform. Yeah, it's a big thing because one, they're having to wear their own clothes and they're getting them dirty, yeah. Two, they don't feel part of the team because then they don't look the same as everyone else in terms of what they're wearing. Um, and it's just it's little things that you know, if you're working in an office, if we have personalised pens or you know, I think notebooks or whatever, and if someone doesn't have one, they feel they don't feel included.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

No, I I I completely agree. If you were starting a new role, and let's say you're someone listening here that's starting a brand new role and and they want to go in and they want to assess what that induction and onboarding process is like, what are the the sort of two or three things you would look for as uh to to kick it off and just start? Because I guess you have to start somewhere, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah, I think definitely the first things for me would be the HR and the health and safety inductions. Um absolutely massive like key. I think health and safety is even above HR, like health and safety is absolutely paramount when it's paramount when it comes to any work environment, but more specifically like manufacturing or construction. So definitely making sure that your health and safety and HR inductions are absolutely on point, and getting that buddy, as I've mentioned, and making sure that they've got someone there who they can work with, and even if it's just for the first week that they've got just this one social person that they rely on. Um, but then having an in-depth plan with them so that they know where they're going, at what time, who they're seeing, for what reason. Um, I think explaining things is a big part as well because saying to someone, Are you gonna go meet Christina in HR and sit with her for half an hour? Why? Do I have it? Like I don't got time, I'd rather just be learning on the job, and then explaining to them that you know she needs to get all your pay uh your bank details, make sure they can pay you correctly, and she's gonna talk you through how to use the holiday booking system and you know just explaining things to everybody as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

I think our buddy system is great as well because that that empowers and gives some responsibility, doesn't it, to the people internally of business.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Absolutely. So the the person who is the buddy gives them a little bit more of I don't know, empowerment as the point.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

100% because typically those people probably aren't managers, but they might be uh your to-be managers, the people who've not had any training, I guess, which is which I guess also linked as nicely you you alluded to before, but that training piece for managers is so important, isn't it? Because how many people I know that have been become a manager because they're let's use a production manager because they're a good production engine does not necessarily mean yeah they're going to be a good manager because it is 90% of the job is people.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

It really is, and I think that's the part that people forget, you know. Like you say, you could have been a really good production operative for 10, 15, 20 years, and because of that, we're gonna promote you, but we're not gonna give you the skills on how to look after people. Yeah, and then what I do find then is people struggle to essentially move up as because you do have to kind of distance yourself a little bit, you know, you can't be as pallip as you used to be. Um I mean you can't you can, but there are limes that they weren't that there was never limes before. You know, I'm gonna use that that horrible word banter.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

You know, that like that banter becomes almost like you used to be really, really careful with it. Whereas before you could just say, you know, you knew you guys, you could just sort of relax and say what needed to be. But as a manager, you've essentially now you've got that responsibility of leading by example. So you know, if you're still doing the banter and the guys think it's acceptable, but then they do something that's not really that acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

It's boundaries, isn't it? It's boundaries, isn't it? Because I guess you know, the good thing about leadership now is I think most companies want don't want robots and want you to be authentic and lead within you know how you feel fit, but at the same time, it's got to be within the boundaries of what leadership is and what the values of that business is, and that that's a tough balance sometimes, isn't it, yes, it is, it's really hard.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

It's a it's a hard skill to learn. I think some people you've got to really, really work hard at it, other people it comes really naturally. Yeah, and some people just never get it, no matter how hard you try. Yeah, it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

It's um I mean I I I struggle, I still struggle with you know that I don't think I don't think many people just feel right, I've nailed it now. I've got it.

The Critical First Six Months And Onboarding

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, it's people are complex, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

100%. And I guess one of my reflections was that you don't need to continue and consistently improve on your weaknesses all the time because you're always gonna have them, you know, if you double down on your strengths and then it gets back to what you're saying, empower other people in your team to do things in your own.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

The more you do things, the easier they get. You know, you're not like you've said, you're never gonna be a hundred like an expert in it, but it'll just make it that little bit easier.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

100%. The um just to if if again people listening and they have no training on their site for their managers, what would be the first things you what are the most crucial elements of that training piece that you would looked at? Is it is it workshops, is it one-on-ones, is it anything that you think's imperative and what you would look at initially?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

I think it depends on the person and how you want to do the training. So if you've got a number of managers and you want to do all of them at once, you know, workshop would be good because you can bounce ideas off of each other, you can make it a bit more interactive, and you can essentially record that training so that when you have new managers starting, you can just send them that and have have essential e-learning.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Um I think if you've got a manager who does really struggle, I think one-on-one would be a bit better because you can get a little bit more in-depth, understand exactly what it is that they're struggling with. Is it the fact that they just simply don't like having that difficult discussion with that employee?

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

If it is, then you can work on like, okay, we need to work on your assertive skills or we need to work on other things, and you can really delve delve a bit deeper. Whereas if it's a workshop and there's like 10 or 15 management in there, even maybe five, you kind of not get in deep enough for that one individual.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

With uh, I think what's interesting, and and I've formed this this chap before you have someone in that role as a business owner or as a as a director, MD, well, whatever the title is in a business or manufacturing company, let's say, sometimes they just think, oh, that person's a HR manager, they don't need any any direction.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Oh gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

It's people before on that chap of it. Yeah, how of if you look at the the the jobs and companies and roles you've had, yeah, what's been the difference between a company which allows you to do empowers you versus ones that doesn't, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Um, gosh, that's yeah. I think just to answer that first section there, I think a lot a lot of people do that. You're a HR, whether you're a manager or even an advisor or an administrator, you know everything, you don't have to train, and it it's it's really difficult because you're probably the one person that sat there going, I don't know what to do. This employee's been up sick three times in three days. I don't know what to do. Um so I think allowing your your HR team to have that opportunity to learn. I mean, I I've I've signed up to a number of um, I think they call them e-blasts where they send out like employment law updates and stuff like that. So allowing them that time to go and because employment law is changing all the time, all the time. Um I mean there's things now I've been I've doing I've been doing HR now for 15 years, I don't know everything. You know, a manager will come to me and say, What do I do here? And I'll go, Oh god, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

We'll go on ACAS, we'll go on C. IPD um HR inform, like we'll we'll do all these things. Well, if need be, we have to ring um a solicitor and get advice. But allowing your HR team that time to actually grow and learn is not only just going to benefit that individual, it's going to benefit the entire business.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

A manager comes to us and says, I want to get rid of this person, can I? And we go, Yeah, why not? And then we end up with a massive discrimination claim or whatever. You know, it's I mean, I'm going to um an employment law seminar next week, or is it this week? Soon. Um and that's about like discrimination and um flexible working and things. And even though I think personally, I think flexible working, discrimination, I'm quite I know I know quite a lot there. I would never ever not go to one of them because I think I know it all. Because I honestly do not know it all. Um, there's things in there that I think, oh gosh, I didn't realise that. Yeah, you're constantly learning.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

And it challenges your own beliefs sometimes, isn't it? Because just you think you know something, it's um absolutely different opinion.

Buddy Systems, Inductions, And Clarity

SPEAKER_01 20:59

I mentioned health and safety when we when we first joined um this this podcast. Um was it a few months, maybe a few months back? I went on a health and safety employment law mock tribunal. And I'm sat there going, Oh, this this this guy's not gonna win. He's gone up this ladder, he's signed a document to say he shouldn't go up the ladder, he knows what he's doing, he's he's had all the work assessments and everything, and ah, he's not gonna win. Hundred and odd grand? How's that work?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Honestly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

So you know, you're thinking that an employee's signed all the documents to say that they know what they're doing and they shouldn't be using a ladder to climb up to escape and put something in, but they have done and they've injured themselves. As a hip char professional there, I'm going, well, silly boy, he shouldn't have done that. It's his own fault. Is signed to say he knows he shouldn't, but because that ladder was still accessible.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

It's interesting that I think that's a really interesting lesson because exactly that we just presume we've ticked that box, that box will always remain ticked.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

A lot of stuff does just become tick tick box, that's a size. Yeah, you need to be mindful that it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider, specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialise in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ Exec search arm of the business, both on the contract and permit side. We offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for heart of roles or a full partnership service where we've become an extension of your business. For any information, please get in touch with me or the team. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thank you. So your go-to's then, because I I like what you said there in terms of you're allowing it to come to you, so then you can come to it. ACAS website is uh what what what websites and what sort of what do you subscribe to, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah, so obviously ACAS, um as a HR professional, I'm a CIPD member as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Um, but then any kind of employment law, so Chadwick Lawrence, I'm signed up to. Um, are you testing me now? Uh just a number of different uh employment law solicitors, um, they'll send out e-blasts and stuff as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

I I'm I'm not a particularly political person uh at all. Um it's um, but I'm intrigued by things that change, and obviously we're um potentially some there's a big change coming in place which will obviously affect people's rights from day one. Yeah, um, nothing's happened yet, so it's difficult to do anything about it. How do you you know if that does get passed, how do you feel? And do you think that will actually create any form of change for for better or worse for let's say manufacturing?

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Um I'm torn, and that's not new, that's not me being political. I genuinely am torn. I think in some instances it's a shame because it it means that managers and employers have less um ability to be able to, you know, have who they want in the business. Yeah, um, but I also see it as a good thing because it is that safety and that security for that employee who's just left their job to come and work for you. Six uh three months down the line, you could go, actually, nah, you're not for us by, and it it leaves that employee just having, you know, they've got a mortgage, they've got kids, anything, and you know, they've got bills. So I see it from that aspect, but I do I worry a little bit in how that's going to affect businesses because they've got less rights now.

Workshops vs One-to-Ones For Manager Training

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah, yeah, I I agree. I I'm I'm I I'm also on the fence. One side I think it could just improve businesses' process and make them but yeah, there's so many different sides to it. And and I guess like anything, it hasn't been passed yet, and you can deal with facts, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 24:37

And then and yeah, just and I think you said there as well about um well, I can't remember what you just said now.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

The process piece in terms of process, that was the thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Uh-huh. Um, and it's you know, we should be doing that anyway. We shouldn't just be relying on oh, they've got less year less than two years service, let's just get rid of him. Like you shouldn't be doing that. Like I said to you earlier, if this guy isn't performing, let's work with him. He might still have less than two years' service, but I'm not gonna say, Oh, let's throw the towel in. I want to work with him and see how we can so I think, yeah, it'll hopefully it'll make people's process uh companies' processes be a lot smoother um and fairer. Yeah, but do just worry because you know we there are those particular individuals who just don't get it and just you know and the flip side is if if that means there's more hesitation from hiring, then that's a big negative.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

And that that's where I'm on the fence of the things where you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

But isn't that a good thing? Because you're now gonna you're you're gonna enhance your interview skills and you're gonna it's a good debate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

It's a good if it exactly that. I guess again, if it improves the process of hiring is a good thing. If it means they're hesitant and even signing off a role and they go for it, they to take some of a contract. So it's one of those that's why I'm probably on the fence. Yeah, it's it's a really challenging one. Um, a lot of stuff was said in terms of of empowering people and giving people voice and that side to it. I guess it links into supportive cultures and and and what a supportive culture looks like, um, particularly obviously now with the the increase of levels of of poor mental health. And I think you know manufacturing is a is a real key industry, and the statistics I've had a couple of people on um on this podcast who who their job is to especially go into manufacturing and uh talk about these problems because it's a predominantly male-dominated environment, predominantly a young male-dominated environment, um, and particularly on the shop floor, where it's you know, there's there's there's really worrying stats, you know, that you can bring drug use into that and all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

What um what's your thoughts and beliefs about this and and perhaps what a supportive um sort of site could look like to help out? What do you say?

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Um so I think in any workplace, not just where I am now, but in any workplace, we should be you should be promoting things like Andy's Man Club, um, Samaritans. Um I'm pretty sure nowadays most employees uh employers have got an EAP, which is the employee assistance programme which offers counselling. Um and I think don't be scared to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

You know, like you say, it's it's very manufacturing is very a male-dominated um sector. But don't be afraid, don't be afraid to talk about it. Um if you see someone, I'm gonna use this example again, but if you see someone who's coming in late all the time, absent all the time, and never used to be, don't just pull them in for a disciplinary, talk to them and find out exactly what it is. Is everything okay at home? Is everything okay at work? Are we putting too much on you? Like just try and understand what it is because men don't talk about these things, and they really should. Um, and I think any supportive employer should be promoting that talk. Um, there's mental health awareness weeks getting involved with that. Um, where I used to work, we had um like pregnals and bikes where we for the whole week would would try and march over to Lithuania or you know, just to try and ease that, get that mind clear. And yeah, I think uh a lot of companies should be doing that a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah, I I I completely agree. It's it's a real, it's a it's it's a massive problem, it's a real problem. It's not something that you know people just talk about because they feel they should, do you know what I mean?

Keeping HR Current: Law, Process, And Learning

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's that it's it's difficult, it really isn't it. You know, you you've got your first aiders for for injuries at work, yeah. People should also have mental health first aiders as well, yeah. Um and that they're the ones that are trained to essentially see, oh, this person's not quite the same. I'm just gonna pull them to one side and have a chat with them because they might want to open up to that, but they might not. Yeah, but if you've noticed something as a mental health first aider, or even just as a manager or a colleague, you can direct them to the EAP, you can direct them to Mandy's Might and Club, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Um, and just talking about I think the more we talk about it, we'll remove that um that particular because and then what you're talking about there is going so because some companies will put will sign posts and we'll literally sign posts by putting posts on the wall, which which is a it's a step in the right direction because you just never know that person might see that at the right time, but they need to go further than that, like you say, it's having those conversations, absolutely, it's having those conversations. I think that those conversations can start to create and change the culture because ultimately we're talking about here that needs to be. Have you seen uh you know when you've worked with different businesses? How apparent is it when a company has a an open culture to talk about versus is that obvious to you when you go in?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

It is so yeah. So I've I've worked at many different um companies, and some of them you can you see that it really, really does make a difference. Some of them you can't tell whether it's made a difference or not, yeah, and others it's blatantly obvious that it's non-existent because you've got people who are terrified at the workstation and oh my manager's in today, I need to look busy.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

But no, I think like one of the companies that I used to work for, um at Everbuild, which we bought out and we became a company called Seeker, um, that we used to have as a HR team, we used to instead of sitting in the boardroom and having a HR meeting, we used to go out on walks and have our HR meeting during during these walks. And honestly, the amount of like creativity that came out and the way that we started to change things because of that, we were out of those four walls, you know, the the dark, dull mahogany boardroom. We were out of that, we're in nature, like we brought our dogs, um, and we just you know had a bit of a tip tea and biscuits at the end. Um, and it was just really nice, and it just it allowed those creative juices to just flow because you're not in even though you're you're in a work environment, you're not because you're out and out and about and you get in that clear headspace.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Completely agree.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

So, yeah, it just just change things up.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

I'm smiling because I'm such a massive advocate. So we've we we had walking Wednesdays for many years, and now we now pretend to do our Monday meetings, as long as it's not like this, like rain and grim, we'll we'll get out as long as it's not rain hard, we will get out. And I completely agree, you know, it's just getting your body moving as well, and like in the morning when you've just sat and I hate sat in meetings, so completely agree that the informality and the fact that it will open up because there's not this actual divide between a desk between you. Absolutely, it's huge, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 30:59

It's it is, it really is. Um, and you said there about not going out in the rain. Why not? Well, yeah, there is that.

Policy, Risk, And The Cost Of Tick-Box Thinking

SPEAKER_00 31:04

I would, but that's uh yeah, don't use it as excuse. But no, I completely agree now. And I think the more conversation we can have about mental health, um, the more it becomes okay to talk about it, and I and uh and I massively, massively agree. It's um it's interesting because there was the um men and boys, so the international men and boys day last week. And sometimes I think two companies do things because they feel like it's marketing, and I was a bit wary about so uh we didn't actually do anything external, but I I sent a message, an email to to all the lads, and said, Look, this is the day, you can do this on any day, but they being the fact it is, feel free, you know, as anyone want to just walk and talk about anything and and themselves. And a couple people did, and we had some really deep, hard conversations. But the next day when I was with them, I just felt like the management of the management of it of them for me was just was just better. There was just a there was an understanding on both levels of who they were, and and that was a real reflection for me, thinking I shouldn't wait once a year to to do that. That could be all the thing. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Yeah, definitely. And like you say, it just it removes those boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, massive, 100%. Um, uh it also I guess linked into employer value proposition, it and all that type of stuff. Um, for me, it's interesting because I I people look at what benefits they can give people and you know how they can retain people because X, Y, and C. But actually, I think most people agree now it's about giving people a voice and and and recognition. It's and that's a huge part of it because that's what people, that's what people want. And our every poll and survey we send out, apart from the obvious salary and that type of stuff, people want a voice and people want to be heard.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

What do you think are things that businesses can do to you know what actually works when it comes down to giving people a voice and it's not just a buzzword to some extent?

Mental Health: Support Beyond Posters

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah, so I think uh one big thing that I thought has really, really helped in other places that I've worked um is an employee forum. Um, whether you call that the employee voice or you know, whatever you want to call it, but an employee forum would absolutely be the way to go. So, how how I've done it in the past is you'd have a select number of people um chosen by employees to go and essentially represent that team or that department. Um, there'll be a member of HR there, there'll be a senior manager to essentially chair it. Um, and then we'll just we'll discuss things about you know what are you happy with, what are you not happy with, what but it's not an opportunity for you to just come in and moan. What do you want us to do about these things that you're not happy about? Um, and then every quarter would get a member of um the board to come in and chair that meeting so that they're actually, you know, they can see that the voice is actually getting um escalated up. Um and at the back of each meeting, whether it's the monthly one or the quarterly one, would always send out the minutes so that even if you're not involved in that meeting, there's the minutes um and you know who your rep is to come and speak to. So they've really helped, um, to be fair, and because, like you say, people feel that the voice has been heard, hence why you might want to call it the employee voice.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah, but no, I'll I'll really lie that name actually on that. I'm I'm I'm stealing that. I guess the the critical and crucial part becomes after that, doesn't it? In terms of because you can't take every single suggestion, but uh I imagine you've also got to hear every suggestion out for for otherwise it can have the opposite effect. Is that is that quite a difficult process to do that after?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Um it can be, depends what the subject is. So if they if they bring something up like you know, we want we want every Friday, we want to start working a four-day a week, fantastic, don't we all? Yeah, and you know, I think I think the best thing to do is if the answer is no, go back to the employee forum that next month and explain your reasons why. Don't just ignore it, don't just never go back to it. It's it you know it may be difficult to voice it in a forum like that, but at least the employees have been heard, they know that they've asked a question, they know that it's been considered, and they've got feedback.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I completely agree. I just want to uh touch on on that leadership piece. I I actually read one of your LinkedIn posts this morning about obviously the role and everything, and it was so positive in terms of giving a giving us a space, a space to to to be you and to and to grow, which I think was was was lovely and it's great. I think people you know take almost it for granted. If you could bottle up what you've been given and teach that for the business to sort of learn from, what would it be, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Oh gosh, um, I don't know. I don't feel that name, so that's that's a really good question. I think the way that I feel at this new company where I'm working now, I've almost got this sense of empowerment and this sense of um trust and I feel trusted, I feel respected, um, I feel valued. Not to say that I didn't feel trusted, respected, and valued at other places, it's it is just absolutely it's another level. Um, like I've got my arts director who comes and asks me questions and takes my advice. Can I just say from an HR from an HR perspective, to be asked for a start, that's just never heard of, and then to actually have your advice taken on board, my love.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah, but but it isn't it because what we're talking about here is do it this being the case for every employee, but what about HR professionals?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Exactly. Um, but yeah, you know, you think sort of where I always say let me know of anything before it becomes a problem, yeah, but they never do. They always tell you after it's a problem and then you're having to backtrack. Oh, it's just but no, here it's it is it's it's amazing. Like I'm heard, I'm respected. All these ideas that I'm putting forward, not all of them, but most of them have been taken on, and I'm given the opportunity to run with things, yeah, and it's fab. It's just allowing that space to breathe. Yeah, don't breathe down my neck as like you know, micromanagers, and let me you've employed me to do a job, trust me to do my job and leave me to it.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

There's a massive lesson that that true that trusting 100%. If you are trusting someone enough to give them the reins to the job, allow them to do it, get out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Absolutely, absolutely. I think whether rightly or wrongly, I am one, I'm someone who will trust you until you give me a reason not to, rather than I'm not gonna trust you until you give me a reason to, because that that way around is is too difficult to switch.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I asked you two difficult questions here, two more. Go on. What's the um what's the best piece of leadership advice you've ever received or would give yourself from previous years? I give you two options there.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Okay.

Culture Signals You Can See And Feel

SPEAKER_01 37:30

So previous companies I've worked for, sometimes you kind of you you doubt yourself. Um, you're not given that space to essentially lead. Um, and because of that, you start thinking, am I good enough? Do I know what I'm doing? And I'm gonna say this now, but like, you know, when you go for other interviews because you don't want to work there anymore, you go you already go with this sense of anxiety because I'm clearly not good enough because my manager or my colleague has essentially said that in not so many words, or has made me feel that way. Yeah, but then coming to where I at where I am now, I know I'm good at my job, I know I can do like I've yeah, it's just yeah, no, great believing in yourself and never doubting yourself is the the biggest things. It's hard to do, especially when you've got someone who makes you feel that you're not good enough. Yeah, but that's probably something that's that's their problem, not yours.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, it's great advice, and there'll definitely be people who have perhaps driving and listened to this thinking, right, yeah, you know what, I do need to, you know, I I've got this job because I'm good at what I do. I've got all these experiences, I'm good at what I do.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

So, you know, so it's difficult though when you, you know, like I say, when you've got someone who's essentially mechan your second guess yourself, yeah, it does it to. I mean, my husband's forever telling me that you're good at your job, you're good at your job. Yeah, but when you've got that self-doubt, no matter how many people tell you you are, you feel that you're not until you go somewhere that isn't at home and you you know you've shown that you that trust and that respect, and things are changing because they're allowing you to make changes, and things are changing for the better. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Massively. Final question. But if you could fix one widespread HR manufacturing problem, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Um, I don't want to say what I've already said, but essentially come to HR before it becomes an issue. Um, and I've literally just said that, but it really is because when it when it if you come to us when it's a problem, it's already too late, you can't do anything. Um, we're then now trying to pick up the pieces and trying to salvage anything we possibly can. Some of it can be risky. Um whereas if you come and speak to us straight away, we can give you a set of guidelines, do this, this, this. If that doesn't work, we'll do this, this, this. And then if that doesn't work, we'll then have to do this. Whereas you've done everything wrong. No, no, not wrong. Sorry. You've done everything out of sync and not quite as well as it should be done. And now we're trying to backtrack and trying to pick it all up, and then we're stressed, which means we're not gonna be you've got HR MI just going Saint Laura at the back Yeah, just yeah, come to HR before it becomes an issue.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

I'd have been just do you think that that the communication to almost tell higher minds of that should come from HR or should come from more senior than that? Do you think what's that?

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

That in terms of giving the advice, because I completely agree with you, but obviously I imagine you'd spend a lot of your time, I have spent a lot of your time in years going giving that advice. So do you think that should be you know an operations director or an MD saying, right, HR, you work together, you come and tell them, or do you think that's part of your job to educate them on that? Or a bit of both?

Trust, Autonomy, And Empowering HR

SPEAKER_01 40:36

I think a bit of both, yeah. I think HR training for managers, that's going to alleviate a lot of managers having to come to you, but they still should, just because they think they know what they're doing. Like I've just said, I've been in uh HR for 15 years, I still don't know. I still check with my colleagues and say, Am I doing this right? Um, so yeah, um I've lost my train of thought now. Yeah, so just because I've trained you, don't think that you know it all and you don't need to come and speak to us, still come and speak to us. But I think as a HR manager, you should be I don't want to sound like checking up on your managers, but you should be aware, isn't it? Yeah, you should be aware of what they're doing, and uh you should be spotting those signs of like within that disciplinary meeting, you just feel the outcome straight away. I need to let you know that we need to adjourn. So yeah, it's a bit of both. Um but I think directors should be allowing HR that space to manage.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree. And look, I know you've only been there for a few months, but briefly, um, can you tell us what Blatchford do, please, especially in Chessfield and what the next sort of 12 months are looking like? I'll tell things are that.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Can I just Google it?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

And we can clap it out.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

So I know that we do things for tractors, but let me just yeah I promise that is real. So about us.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I did look before and I thought, yeah, that's confusing, so I'll just know him I go to.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Oh my goodness, it's not very obvious, is it? So we do we do like acoustics for you know like your tractors for your um DSCB tractors, um cushioning on the on the ground, on the floor. What do we do? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Well, I'll tell you what, if you um just it it's I'll ask the question again in terms of what's what what's the next do you know what in terms of the next three to six months, 12 months looking like, or in terms of I mean for me in HR, like I've got a lot a lot of projects.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Um I don't know if I want this airing, but like we've got a lot of absence issues at the moment. I've been there for two months and I've already got it down from seven and a half percent to one point three.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Nice. Yeah, true. Well, uh we can just skip, we can just skip my question in time if you want. I'll wrap it up. Um said, but I'll I'll I'll challenge my market here to edit the back of this. So good.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

What does it come for do? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

But I'll just wrap it up. But um look, perfect. Um look, thank you for this. It's been I appreciate we've had a it's been a long time coming this episode. I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Me too, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

I think for me, you know, I always think about the the the takeaways, and I think look, there's there's so much in this for me, but I think ultimately it's the big one for me is how uh divisions and business needs to work together, you know, whether sales and marketing, what it is, but I think in this instance, absolutely, it's how higher how higher managers, HR, operations, and the how they all work together to work as a team. Because, like you said, massive, massive learning curve in terms of people coming to you before it's a problem. But actually, you spoke really well about the right environment for you and and you being heard and you being sort of listened to and haven't been empowered, and and what what effect that can have on the team because you get someone in your position working as you should do perfectly and feeling it being heard that's only going to trickle down, and uh and I really any any conversation which moves mental health in a positive way for me does, and I think you know that this isn't just this is important for many reasons, but actually, if you are a manager with the team, it's important for the reason for doing doing good by your staff, but actually, you know, the the statistics show that if you don't, there's more absentees, there's there's more levers, and and all that sort of piece as well. And it trickles in with all the stuff we spoke about with retention. So there's a lot of important, powerful things spoken about today, which I'm really pleased about. There's also lots of little takeaways which HR professionals would go, right? Okay, I'm gonna subscribe to that. Or you know, Christine is absolutely right, you know, I need to make sure I'm continuously learning X, Y, and Z. So thank you for this. I've I've really enjoyed it and I've I've learned a lot as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

I've enjoyed it as well.

Belief, Confidence, And Leadership Advice

SPEAKER_00 45:04

That's great. Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. Please just like or subscribe, it really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team. I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter, and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums-on-seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help improve their lives, and ultimately I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon,