Building a World-Class Business from the North East

In this latest episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast, Mark welcomes Richard Bradley, CEO of SST Group, to discuss leadership, organisational culture, and the future of the engineering industry. 

The conversation delves into Richard’s journey of transforming business environments through strategic vision and growth initiatives. 

Emphasising the significance of values, Richard articulates the vitality of having a shared purpose within the team, highlighting how a collaborative atmosphere can propel organisations towards excellence.

Richard discusses the importance of fostering a culture built on mutual trust and accountability. He shares how the SST Group, under his guidance, has been successful in navigating challenges often faced by manufacturing SMEs. 

The episode explores the integration of leadership training, the strategic use of apprenticeships, and the importance of communication in achieving business sustainability. 

Richard also reflects on personal and organisational achievements, offering listeners an authentic look at the journey from struggling enterprise to thriving industry leader.

This is an episode you do not want to miss!

Please like and subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.

Theo James is a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. 

If you’d like more information about Theo James, feel free to get in touch with the team or Mark anytime.

You can call us on 0191 511 1298. 

Transcript

Framing The Conversation

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Lews Podcast with me, Mark Bracknell, my director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we welcomed on Richard Bradley, the CEO of the SST Group, which involves diet engineering and Q laser. I couldn't wait to have Richard on this podcast. I have waited a long time for this. Richard was one of my key targets when we started the podcast a few years ago, and it did not disappoint. I won't give too much away, but this is one of my favorite ever episodes. It really has put fire in my belly. I guess to summarize it, we talked a great deal about the importance of people in an organization, which includes the importance of caring about people, the importance of health and safety, the importance of having a vision and a belief system that you can create something world-class and you can create something special. And actually, I came away from this episode being very grateful about being a leader, about having a position of responsibility and the chance to enable people, great people, to do great things in a business. And it's definitely going to be one of those episodes where I'm sure you feel the same, but also come away with some tips, some advice, and some motivation how to create an amazing business that you're in today. So I just want to thank Richard for his time today. It was uh it was a phenomenal episode. He was very honest about everything, and it's one of those where you're definitely going to learn a lot. So thank you very much. Please sit back, watch or listen to the episode, and please, please, please, as ever, do with the honor just liking and subscribing really, really helps grow that channel. Thank you very much. Hope you enjoy the episode. And a massive warm welcome today to Richard Bradley, the CEO of the SST group. How are you, Richard?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

I'm very well, thank you very much. Hi, Mark. Good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Good to see you and uh really looking forward to this one. I know I've mentioned it before, but you were on my top five list nearly four years ago when we started the podcast, which I'll probably explain during the episode why that was the case. So I'm really looking forward to no pressure, but don't record this one.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

It's an honor, it's an honor indeed. Now and now I'm scared.

What Leadership Really Means

SPEAKER_00 2:04

No, but looking forward to it, and loads to talk about. Um, first question is the same question I ask everyone to see what sort of um first springs to mind, which is what does it mean to you to be a leader?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Oh um, that's a great question. So I think it means a few things. Um the first one that springs to mind is um is responsibility and accountability. It's um that's that sort of goes with leading any any organization of any size. Um another word that springs to mind is is opportunity. It's the chance to um hopefully create something and and create something but create it with lots of people with you. So um I'm a firm believer in uh in the power of the team. I'm not one of these people that likes to sort of sort of be, hey, look at me and do all of this. It's uh it's very much about how we create something together. And and I suppose that's that's what for me, that's what being a leader is, is how do you bring a group of people that may have different different morals, different values, different obviously different personalities? How do you bring them all together and make them coalesce around something that we all want to achieve together? And then and then make that make that vision, that dream or whatever it is, and make it into reality. It's that I believe is the is the responsibility that goes with being a leader.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah, I completely agree. Have you ever felt the pressure or the weight on your shoulders because of that responsibility? Because I think sometimes leadership is hard, we know that. Um, but sometimes people feel that pressure because they have got responsibility to get the best out of someone. Is that eased over time, would you say? Or what's that journey been like for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Um I don't think well, maybe I suppose maybe it has in some respects, because you like all things, the the more you do, the more you do it, the more you live it, the more you are it. Um the more used to you you get to it. So so maybe maybe I'm not sure ease is the right word. I suppose you become more comfortable with it. Um and I've definitely so it's definitely changed over time. I certainly I I I presume I'm I certainly read a lot about it, so I presume that I'm similar to a lot of people. At the beginning, there's the whole the whole imposter syndrome, you just don't think that you're the right person that um you know, have have you got what it takes? Can you can you do it? Can you live with it? Um and I I think uh I've been through all of that, and and I can't say I can't say I'm out of it. There's always an element that uh of that imposter syndrome that exists in the the little voice in the back of your head, um, which you have to try and ignore as best as you possibly can. Um so I I think I think you become more comfortable with the fact that there is that responsibility, there is that accountability, that the longer you're doing it. Um that would be my take on that. How about you? How does that feel for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Yeah, it's I was just thinking that when you said that it very, very similar because I you know, also someone who suffered, suffer impossible syndrome, because I agree. I don't think it goes away. I think things just you like anything, you you make a decision based on the data that you've got in your head. And I think once you make a decision five times, I think you're more comfortable with it. But uh so I think it does get easier, but actually, I think you get okay with making mistakes and you get okay with not necessarily needing to have all the answers, and that's quite uh it's quite a nice feeling, isn't it? When you realise as a leader, you don't have to have every single decision. You can empower the people around you to do so, and that's quite a comforting feeling, that yeah, I totally, totally agree with that.

From Manager To Leader

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I think I think that is one of the um I think that's one of the hardest transitions that people have to make from from managing per se into leading per se. Is that um I I I along with lots and lots and lots of other people, uh when you're in that management phase, you think you think you do need to know all the answers. You think you've got to you've got to find the right way forward for every single occasion, and uh, and of course, you know, now we realise that that couldn't be further from the truth. It's it's absolutely acceptable and and probably in some respects wanted that you don't have all the answers. Yeah, you actually that's the whole point of a team, isn't it? Is that let's solve it between us. So I why why would any single person have the answers to everything? Yeah, if you say that out loud, it's nonsensical because no one can know everything, no one can be right every time. So um I think I think you're right, by the way, that as you as you progress through, um, you reach that there's that realization, isn't it? Actually, it's someone raises something, is but I don't need this answer, I don't need to know this answer. What we do need to do is discuss it in a really grown-up adult way, and I reach reach an answer where we all look at each other and go, Yeah, do you know what it is? That's the one we're gonna go with. It still might not be the right one. Yeah, yeah. That's important to accept the fact that actually it might not be right, but we as a team are agreed that this is the way we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, it's it's ego, isn't it? I think a lot of um good leaders don't lead with ego, and and I think when you're young and you start managing, it's impossible not to do that because you you know you you feel like you have to because you you know you you're scared to go. I don't know. But exactly what you just said there, let's let's find out together or something. You know, that that takes confidence, isn't it? It takes some experience to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Does I think it's quite exposing, isn't it? To when you're younger and you you you think that you ought to know. Someone asks you a question, and to say, I don't know, is actually what's this gonna make me look like? Um maybe maybe it's an age function, Mark, but maybe now I just don't care.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

There is that there is that. And I think uh the lesson I learned too late was that I gave people when I did know, I gave people the answer every time because it was quicker, and and it would and and often it would get them away from me so I could carry on with the task at hand. I think then you learn to uh that there's if they ask you a question, it might be the right time, and okay, give me five minutes and then we can discuss it. And then what do you think? But that takes a long time, doesn't it? I wish I learned that quicker, it would have saved me a lot of pain.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, no, and uh yes, uh, I have lived something very similar. Um, it's almost like that. Um it's almost like short term and long term, because short term is I'll give you the answer and you'll go away and we'll get it done quickly. Long term is I'm investing in you, I'm investing in the process of exploring um so that we learn together. And actually that's how you create the that's how you create that right environment, isn't it? Yeah. So that it's not just you telling people what to do, it's it's us sharing together to find a way forward. Um and when you put that into the mix of uh trying to grow a business, then it has to be that because if it's you answering all of the questions all of the time is you're limited. You're absolutely limited, you've limited the business by you, by your actions. And it's but it's it's that's all easily, easily said, um, and much harder to to live and breathe.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

One thing I'll be interested to to talk to you about was something we picked up before, was the concept of care, we which you know segues is nice into this as well, because you know, that is where I think leadership has evolved, where leaders really care about their sabbath. There is a difference between caring because you think you should do, you know, corporate care, but uh and then actually caring on that side. And I and I my observation of working with dire engineering over the last few years has been very much the latter that the leadership team actually cares, but that's difficult, isn't it? That that's not an overnight thing, that that transition. How do you know if there's an ops director listening to this going, I don't think we've got that culture, I think it's quite transactional, you know, the retention staff's quite poor, we haven't got that. How do you start to change that gradually, would you say?

Caring Versus Corporate Care

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I presume there's there's a there's a few ways to do it. Um I think the way we did it was was very much through communication and and and and talking, well actually, sorry, listening and talking and sharing and exploring. Um and and I'll be totally open and honest and say that you know ten years ago we weren't doing that. You know, we I think the journey we started on to get us to that point where I'm really happy to hear you say what you've just said about about dire engineering, I think that's been the last maybe five, six years of um of how we do things. Um I think we we s we started by listening. You know, we knew it wasn't right. We could tell, you know, you can I'm I'm I'm one of those people that always talks about the feel of an organization. You can almost feel when it's right. Um and you know, you could feel in our in our organization that it definitely wasn't right. Um and certainly pre-COVID and well probably into COVID, it uh it was it was tough and and we didn't feel like a a together organization. But but COVID did many things for many organizations, I feel, and uh and and for for the ones that reacted in the right way, which I feel like we did, um it was almost an opportunity. It was almost a it was almost a reset button. And uh and I think coming out of that we we started to listen and and we started to and listen and pay attention, and then and then most importantly, we started to do something about what we were were hearing. So you know, I think it was oh this is terrible, isn't it? I think it was last year. It must have been last year. We we we won't I can't remember if it was last year or the year or four, but we won an award for for health and safety. That that's actually where we started is we you know we we talked long and hard about health and safety for forever, really, but I don't think we'd actually lived and breathed it. And I don't think we'd we always cared, but I don't think people really believed us. And through the power of listening, talking and action, people started to believe. Whereas now, if you go into an organization and we talk about health and safety, everyone believes that we care because we've we've backed that up with our actions. Um are we a perfect organization with a fantastic health and safety record? No. But do we have we absolutely changed our cultural behaviour around health and safety? And are we constantly striving to be the best we possibly can? Yes. Uh and and I think we've done that across a number of different areas in the business. Um, you know, if you talk to um, as you will be in April, I think it is, talk to our group HR manager and talk about, I want I'll not steal her thunder, but if you talk about employee churn, for example, um, you know, I don't think we're too far away from world class in that respect. The the percentage is quite surprising uh and and um and amazing you know is great. And and that is because I think we live in tweet the whole idea of you know, SST group is built on the back of Smarter Stronger Together. Um, you know, that whole ethos of how we do things really, really lives in the organization. And uh it's it makes me feel great when I look in and and I think the feel of the organization's right now. So I can walk in, walk around and go, I'd like to work here. This is where I'd want to, I'd want to work. And that was always our aim when we set out.

Health And Safety As Culture

SPEAKER_00 14:13

You're absolutely right, on that COVID statement as well, because we we saw firsthand how companies reacted to a situation that obviously no one planned for. And there was such a stark difference between how some companies just went, exactly that, we've got an opportunity here, and we need to we need to look after our staff. We're not sure what's gonna happen, we're not sure how many are gonna be with us during this period of time because there's so many unanswered questions. All we know is we've got to look after them because they're gonna be really worried and concerned. And exactly that, good companies jumped on teams, whatever it was, gotten together, and even if there's no information, that information was enough. The fact that we don't know what's happening, but we'll keep you updated, versus other companies that were really transactional about the whole thing and had no communication. I know some people didn't speak to their employees during the whole period of COVID, and people got long memories. You know, when they came back, they just said that's not the amount of calls we had, they said they treat memory badly. I had no communication, and I'm worried if if something else happens, then what's gonna happen? Versus a company who you know what, it's not the great, it's not the job, greatest job in the world. The company's got some problems, but they looked after me during that period of time, and I've got some loyalty and trust there. And and exactly what we just said there that if you listen and then you talk, and then there's the action in that exact order, that's how you create loyalty. And and you know, people talk about attraction, and and you know, people ask us how do you attract people? What's the benefit? Just worry about your attention first. You know, you there's no point in attracting people to your business if your attention's really poor. It's it's just it's it's it's uh it's absolutely that will just cost you load loads and loads of money. So no, I the point you made there, Richard, is is absolutely on the money, and it's in just the health and safety piece because I honestly think that is a the hidden cost of poor health and safety if people don't realise. And the feedback we get often is that I've worked around there and it's it's it's dangerous. I don't think people see that as a real reason for for attention. We've had we've actually had it this week, someone and it was a senior person, and they they they don't trust, they don't feel safe. And there's a there's a there's a uh an emotional safety feeling in a in a business which is important, but there's also a health and safety in a business, you know, physical health and safety, which is just as important. Would you say, would you put that old that I guess changing that and evolution of that to where you're now? Would you put that down then to communication still and listening and understanding where the problems were in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and and like I said, and and then doing something about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah.

Trust, Vulnerability, And Learning

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Um, because you used the word, we've only used it once, and uh you're the only person who said it, which is trust. Um, and that is the key, is that people have to trust um that you do have their health, their well-being in mind, that you do care. Because if they don't trust you in that respect, then well they're not with you anyway, are they? And and you you're not getting it right if that's how it is. Um so I think you know, we worked and still do constantly work long and hard to to earn people's trust. If you don't have trust, you you don't need money, you don't have a team. You haven't got you haven't got the right kind of organization if you haven't built trust throughout it. Um and I think that that very much I'm sure you've read lots of stuff like I have around trust and the types of trust that exist and and how you how you do that. But you know, vulnerability is is is one of the one of the key components of creating absolute trust. Um, and I think you know that that's something else that that that we've done a lot of in terms of you know holding our hands up and saying, look, we did we we didn't get it right. We you know, and and and we will continue to get things wrong because we are all the same, we're all human beings, things will go wrong. Um it becomes how what you do with that after the fact is is the most important thing. And and just being I find it quite freeing to be honest, to to be able to um and I don't I I like to think that this exists throughout the organization. I might be kidding myself, but but I like to think that if someone gets it wrong, they feel confident and safe enough in our organization to say I got it wrong, not oh, it was because of this or you know, the excuse element, but no, I got it wrong. Uh and that's okay. That I I actually think getting something wrong is um well, it's part of human life, and we should almost celebrate it and say, right, okay, fantastic, we've got a great learning opportunity here, let's learn from it. We'll not make that one again, we'll we'll make something else, we'll make another mistake somewhere else. But if you always view it as a chance to learn and grow, then actually, is that not a good thing?

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah, that and that has to come from your leader, isn't it? Because if your leader isn't doing that, and your leader because you can you can always tell if if your manager's made a mistake, you can tell. And if if they've dealt with that by not showing that humility, you're gonna you're gonna have the same traits, some as that, and that has to come from leadership. But I guess that has to come from right from the top, doesn't it? Because ultimately, if if he's not coming from the top, then the the leader below the top are gonna do so, and that that trickles down. It's it's so important. The um there's obviously an issue in most industries. This isn't unique to manufacturing, but it's it's still a problem manufacturing engineering that people are promoted based on skill set and and often then not given the relevant training to be able to deal with all this stuff that we're we're is that something you've had to tackle along along the 10 years to get to where the business is now, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, I I um absolutely, you know, we we are we are very typical in some respects. Um, you know, I think we recognized this a few years ago and put in place uh a program which which was called Leading at Dyer, which I'm I'm sure you've you've heard of. Um so uh yes, I think I think it's you know the best the best proponent of it that I've seen, or the best way I've seen it done actually is one of the in one of the massive uh corporates, which is uh I shall name them, which is Procter and Gamble, um, who who obviously a long, long time ago, many, many decades ago, recognized that um in any given group of people you will have some that are really suited to leading people, and some that are actually uh just technically gifted and but not suited to leading people. And so they created they created basically streams. So you could go down one or go down the other. Um it didn't mean you mean you were there for life, but fundamentally it worked to for the for the large majority, and um, and I think we are we're nowhere near that, but um I actually think that's the right way to do it. Um, because what you're right is in most companies you end up with um individuals that are very gifted at their job, they end up leading people, and actually that might not be the right place for them, not only for them, but also for the people that they're either managing or leading. Um, and it it's it would be a much more adult conversation, wouldn't it, if we could all just recognise that at the beginning and say, right, okay, well, what are you going to do? What do you think is the right path for you? Well, I'm I think I'm loving technical and I I think I'm suited to that. Great. Let's find a works, let's find a stream that works for you. Um, you know, I I I'm I'm good at what I do, but actually I really enjoy working with people. Okay, that that might be your more suited to that that version of it. And I think I'm sure I'm sure all the large Corporates have worked this out a long time ago and have thrown the resources at it and got it set up like that. Um, in the SME world, it's uh it's a little bit different, and we're we're uh but we're but we're learning all the time, um, and investing in that leadership program uh has been one of the best things that we've done. And obviously we will we will keep doing that and uh and keep driving the conversations towards finding the the managers or leaders or both uh within the organization that already exists and we don't even know it yet.

Growing Leaders And Career Paths

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Well, exactly that. And and you know, things are difficult right now in the industry. You know, budgets are are tighter than they have ever have been, and actually bringing in leaders with X amount of experience is gonna cost the business some money, some risk there, some training. And exactly what we just said there, there will be people in in your business now, you know, people listening, there are people in your business that may not even realise that leadership is the is the way for them because they don't know what the path is, and and and that you know they're the hidden gems of your business who know the business inside out, and they're the ones that can fly the flag and understand the the cultural piece because it's it's risky bringing bringing in anyone, you know, seeing the business. There's pros and cons to it. I do think bringing external people is is there's there's a real positivity to that because it's different ideas and they they see things that internal people won't see, but you need that balance for me, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I I think so. I I you know whilst it's quite sort of it's quite gratifying to think that all of the future managers and leaders of the business are already in the business, um, the reality is that every now and then it's great to bring people in from um sometimes from other industries or from other businesses within your own industry, because because fundamentally it it it brings in a different way of thinking, doesn't it? It brings in a different perspective. Um so I think that the balance is it's well I'm back to you know it's like all things in life, really, isn't it? You always end up with the balanced approach is usually the best approach. Yeah, um so it's always a mix of of the two things. Um, you know, we I would I would love to you know I would love to create a business where everybody could progress and and and develop and and get to where they want to, and um and fundamentally that's what we're trying to do. But the realities of life is that occasionally we're gonna bring other people in. That's just the way it's there's there's no getting away from that. It'll be that. Yeah, 100%.

Balancing Internal Talent And Hires

Manufacturing Leaders Summit Announcement

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Apologies for interrupting this podcast. Very briefly, to tell you about the Manufacturing Leaders Summit, an event I've been wanting to organise for quite some time, and we've finally done it with New College Durham, April the 30th, 2026. All money raised goes to Red Sky Foundation, a charity extremely close to my heart that I've raised money for over the last five years after losing my dad to a cardiac arrest. It's an amazing charity, and you actually see the effects of the money raised, you'll see the defibrillators going in around the area. The day's gonna be amazing. We've got speakers who are TED Talkers, we've got um ex-Olympian, we've got um authors all around leadership mentality and manufacturing engineering. We've got an amazing panel of people. We're gonna talk about getting helping young people get into engineering, and then we've got eight different workshops to choose from. It's gonna be an amazing event, all around adding value back to manufacturing. Ideally, 180 to 200 people are gonna be there on the day, and it's a great opportunity to network with um like-minded people, other manufacturing leaders. So please, please attend ticket prices of a suggested 15 pound donation when you sign up via Ventbrite. And we really want you to be there. Tickets are going fast, workshops are getting filled up fast. So please make sure you click the link, which we'll put in the comment section as well. Click the link, share it with anyone else you think could be keen. And I can't wait to see you there. Thank you very much. I'd like to pick your brains regarding um, I guess um, this is probably more uh vision and and and culture purpose folks, I guess. And and I said at the start of the episode that um you're on my radar to try and get on this podcast at quite some time, and no more so than probably two and a half years, three years ago now it was when I we sat in uh internal meeting, we're looking at sat an internal meeting at Dio for yourself and and and Maxine and probably about 10 other leaders in the business. At the time, you were talking to them about purpose, but you were talking to them about the importance of Dyer being a world class, and you mentioned before being world class, and you use that phrase five or six times and it it hammered at home. But you you talked about the importance of when someone passes their probation, the feeling they should have should be second to none that they've got it, the percipation diet, and that feeling. And you were talking, and everyone was listening, and you you communicated that, and it really hit home to me how important it is to have a vision and communicate that vision and have a shared goal, and that links with everything, with with the culture of it, and and everything we've talked about today. And I do think that's that's a missing piece for a lot of businesses, the fact they just probably turn up and have their day to day and they look at the data and all this type of stuff, and it's and they can they can be successful, but they never create that um that camaraderie and that that north star to some extent. How important is it for you, you know, if you were a different business today and you walked in and didn't have that, to try to create that vision and purpose in the business that everyone understands and it's clear. What do you say?

Vision, Purpose, And World Class

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, I I I think that's um well actually I'll I'll I'll qualify that with it. Depends what you want. So I I mean I'm I I'm humming and harring here, I should get my words out clearly. Um I had a uh a vision a long Graham and I had a vision a long time ago, which was we wanted to create the best version of of the business that it could possibly be. And my view on that is well, why would you want to create anything else other than that? Um and if that's if that's what you want, then you know what what do you want to be the best in the world at? What how are you gonna get there? What does it look like? What drives you? What what are you what are the passions that exist in in the business within yourself? Where do you want to get to? And I I'm I'm very much uh a believer that you know if you don't have a vision that I'm gonna say the majority buy into because it's very difficult to get everybody to buy into it. Um but if you can get the majority to buy into it, I think that's your only chance of being the best version of the business that you can possibly create. I think if you haven't got that, you can still be good. Don't there's no getting away from it, it can still be good. But would it be a place where you'd aspire to work and want to go, you know, and go the extra mile for and uh and maybe even love working there? Um I don't think it would. I think it would just be your average place. And um, you know, one of the things that that we set out to do and and still still are doing is you know, I I've always wanted to create a business that um that my children would look at and go, yeah, I want to be part of that. And you know, that's that's the path we've been on for the last 12 years is still and still working on it is you know, I want people to come into work and and think, you know, from from the scale of yeah, it's all right to work here to I love working here. I think I think that feels like a good place to be, and and we'll keep trying to make it into the best place to be. So I think you know, the whole idea of world class is that I want people to feel that. I want people to feel that, you know, where do you work? Well, I'm part of the SST group. I work at Dyer. What's it like there? Do you know what is I really enjoy it? It's a great place to work. We're trying to be this world-class business here in in County Durham. Why not? Why not? You know, the the concept of all of these the fantastic large corporates that we look at. Um, you know, Rolls Royce is a great example. Um, after certainly after the turnaround it's been over the past few years we've done exceptionally well at. Um is it but they they'll have started in Derby in 150 odd years ago, and it'll have been really similar to to dire engineering starting 50 years ago is as a one-man band in in the north of County Durham. So so why not? That's that's always my so people look at you and you say, Well, you know, we can do what Rolls Royce did. And they're sort of like, yeah. So well, why not? Yeah if if if you don't try, guess what? You've got no chance. If you're not gonna, if you're not gonna dream big, then you're never ever gonna get there. And I I know that's a cliche. Um, and I know loads of people have said that, but I actually, you know, it's a cliche because it's pretty much true, isn't it? If you're not gonna have a real bash at it, then you're not gonna get there. And so so the answer to your question, I've gone really long-winded there. I do apologize. No, no, it's is that it's just yes, you've got to have a vision, and and and I think more importantly, is you've got to feel it, you've got to want it. You've got it's gotta be it's gotta be something inside of you. If you're gonna lead it, then it's gotta be something inside of you that says, yeah, absolutely, that's what we want. Yeah, and I'm gonna work really, really hard to try and create the right environment that we can get there.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, look, that's a phenomenal answer. And you know, I guess I was rethinking deeply when you were talking there, and and what really resonated with me is the fact that you have to believe it and you have to feel that it's right for you as a leader. Because you know, we talk about this a lot here. We talk about reputation a lot, we always talk about reputation over profit. But what's really that that's really important to me, and and also it's always been important to me to build a culture because exactly what you said there. I want to I want to build a business that people enjoy coming in. Like it really, I really feel physical pain if if people really don't aren't happy and stuff. I've always felt that. Um, but we talk about that. We'll come we'll come up against our uh some of our competition who perhaps um don't have those values, but actually could be more successful on the bottom on a PL. And we've got to be careful of that because actually they will they'll work work a certain way and might be in a certain way and do certain things and they'll they'll be successful. But yeah, you need to be okay with that. You know, you you need to be okay with doing the right things on a daily basis, and if that sometimes means you don't get the end result, then that's okay. You've got to be true to your values, but you've got to want to really believe in that because if you work for a business that just cares about you're gonna we're gonna make you this amount of money, then that's absolutely fine if if that's what you believe. But if you don't, then it's not right for you, isn't it? It's uh yeah, I've probably not communicated that, but that was just when I was when you were talking there, that that was the sort of thing that was springing to to my mind that you've you've got to be you've got to really care about the the vision, haven't you, personally?

SPEAKER_01 33:19

I think so. I think you know we've all got to make money. It's just not that the the money side of it's almost like a given, you know, because if you're not make what you know, what's the true measure of a successful business? Well, it's longevity. Um, so how do you get longevity? Well, you've got to be profitable, got to make money.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

That that's like that's got to be part of the mix of a sustainable business that's been around for 50, 100, 150 years. Um there'll all be always be cycles within that, but the fundamental, the model has got to work. Um so that's you know, I I think I think maybe what what I hear from what you said there is that I think businesses that are driven by by people that only care about money, um, well, if that were the if that were the case, then the people working within that would see that, wouldn't they? Yeah, it's just money. And so what's the culture going to be like? It's gonna be just about money. And and what that makes me think is is that a sustainable business model that will create a business that can exist for 50, 200 years? And my thoughts around that are possibly not, but yeah, I might be wrong.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, no, I completely write it. It is a question, and uh, this is a reflection question, difficult one. What out you know, you the journey you've made, you know, you personally, and it could be for you personally, it could be for for you know for the for the group. What's the mo what's the biggest thing you're proud of in your career so far, would you say, if you'd reflect?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Um that's one of those questions that I really really struggle with.

Values, Profit, And Longevity

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, because there isn't there isn't a right or wrong answer, but what you were talking about there in terms of you and Graham in the early days and Met The Vision, I just thought, yeah, you've you've you've come so far that there'll be so much stuff that you're you're proud of, but sometimes difficult to pinpoint one because we never have the time to sit and reflect like that may maybe uh maybe a strange one, I don't know, but um I think I think I'm most proud of the fact that um that the business is here and that so survival um and and the reason I say that I have to qualify that with the reason I say that is you know we we nearly went.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

You know, not a lot of people know that, and but you know, we had some really and and and I know most businesses go through certain phases like this, but I think we were as close as you could possibly get at one point in time, um but we found a way, and um we've gone from that point to the point we're at now where you know I I look and think wow what what a great what a great team and what a great business in the future looks really positive for um for the group. Um I suppose we we said it quite uh maybe half an hour ago is that you know, have have you got what it takes to to go the whole journey? And um, I suppose that's what I'm most proud of, is that somehow or other we have. Yeah. And that's you know, uh I think anyone who owns and runs a business probably knows what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yeah, and uh, you know what? There'll be a lot of people listening who will resonate at that, but also probably feel it right now as well, because you know the it's probably say never been harder, but it's a it's a difficult time right now to own a business and and to work for this market condition. And you know, to hear you say that will help a lot of people because of what you've uh you've achieved since. Because yeah, entrepreneurship is difficult and uh resilience is probably the most important trait that we probably haven't talked about. It's it's uh it's just needless.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

I think so, I think so. I I totally believe that. Um, and I I th I think you know that there was I don't I don't mind admitting there's you know, there's certainly been times in the last in the last 10 years where I thought, oh my god, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I can do this anymore. Because it just gets to the point where you just feel like you're being battered. Same. Um and the the the sort of the the one thing I learned from that is um I was lucky to have one or two people around me that I could talk to. Um and you know, I the when I got the closest to going, it's time to just stop, I can't do this anymore. It was just a chance conversation with one of those people who asked me a question and I went, Oh, oh yeah, okay. I hadn't thought of that. Um, because that's often the way, isn't it? Because you're so in it it's hard to see sometimes. And that one question is the is probably the reason that we're still here, and you know, whether we came out of it and we've grown and and created this fabulous team of people that do great things at Dyer and now hopefully we're gonna do exactly the same in Q laser. Is uh you know, the creation of SST Group is very much the continuation of that journey. I you know, why not Rolls-Royce? You know, we are at the start of the creation of what I hope to become one of the greatest Northeast engineering businesses ever. Yeah, so yeah, I'm I'm I'm definitely proud of that journey and and more than happy to talk to anybody who wants to talk about getting through the hard times. It's it it's important to have people around you that you can talk to that are not probably not even in the business, probably better that they aren't.

Survival, Resilience, And Turning Points

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Yeah, I agree. Which raises nicely into the last part where I'd like to just put your brains on the on the on the industry, really, and particularly the particularly the northeast. You know, you obviously sit on the board of the engineering manufacturing network. You're obviously a um uh uh um an expert networker in terms of what you do now. The um and I think um what the if one of the reasons I start this podcast a while ago is because I didn't feel that the industry really networks and learns from each other enough. I think there's some tremendous networks out there that that do that. Um what are your thoughts on you know where the industry is now, probably more so what needs to be done to improve it? And I guess if we really want to sort of reverse that a little bit more, what can people listening start to try and do to help the industry? Because I do think we're in this together, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. Um I think the the path for manufacturing in the northeast is is still quite a challenging one. I think I th I actually think we're perfectly positioned to be um you know the the the manufacturing version of this of Silicon Valley is what why can't that be why can't the North East be the hub of manufacturing in the UK? Um and I I think we've got all of the right ingredients to try and create that, but but we are um we're not the greatest at shouting about ourselves and putting ourselves out there and talking about the fact that we have got great heritage, great skills. Um so from that from that network perspective, what do we need to do? I think we need to keep doing more of what we're doing, which is we we you know, we definitely collaborate across uh across the piece, but but I actually I don't think we're doing exceptionally well. Um, and I think part of the reason behind that is you know the the Northeast manufacturing landscape is very similar to others in the sense that it's dominated by SMEs. Um and you know, SMEs from five people up to 500 people. Um, and I think the the bulk of them are probably in that one to 50 employee range. Um and you know what happens when you're in that kind of business is well, fundamentally you'll be in it, and it's very difficult to actually take time out of it to network, to collaborate. Um, part of what we do at the engineering manufacturing network is try and make that happen. Um, but it's a challenge, and and I really get it as well because you know, if you've set up and run your own business, it's it's actually, and and there's there's ten of you, uh, and every day depends on some of the decisions that you're gonna make. It's actually really difficult to say, well, I'm gonna take three hours out to attend a networking session or to attend a session where I'm gonna learn something about some, you know, something that might help the business. Um, but I I do firmly believe that the answer lies within that. I just think that maybe the way that we're connecting is not the right way. So that's something we're actually working actively on in in EMN is is very much well, how do we how do we sort of turn it around? How do we take it to people so that they don't have to leave their business? How do we get to um share this information about best practice and in whatever it is, it could be logistics, HR, it doesn't really matter. Yeah, but you know, the fundamental purpose should be to help Northeast manufacturing and engineering businesses to grow. You know, what's the answer to this? Is a bit this is a bit far-reaching, so I do apologize, but I do this is what I believe in is that business should be a force for good. And and by being a force for good, I mean by creating employment. You you create more employment employment by growing. If businesses can grow, create more employment. That means fewer people in um out of work, potential poverty situation. Um, you know, I I think that's what business should be doing. I think all businesses should always be trying to grow, um, because that is a positive journey. Now you've got to do it in a uh sustainable, managed way, yeah, but you should always be on that path. Um, and if we can create more and more and more of that, that can only be beneficial to the you know the society of the region that we live in. And you can take that as wide as you want, but that's that's what I believe in. So, and that's how I I try and that's my worldview is I want all all I all I am ever trying to do is be a force for good, but by but through the businesses. Okay. How do we grow? How do we create more employment at the same time as creating a sustainable, profitable business that will benefit everybody who's connected to it? Um, and I think you know, the from the the regional point of view, it's how do we create lots of businesses like that? Because we need lots and lots doing the same kind of thing within whatever industry they're in. Um I'm not sure if I've answered your question.

The North East’s Manufacturing Future

SPEAKER_00 44:02

No, it absolutely does because it's so you know it's and I think when I was when you were talking, I was apprenti apprenticeships are just everything about what you've talked about, and they because they are they can they should be a pillar of the community, you know. You get apprenticeships right, they are your future, they are for you know they're helping young people, but they're helping the business as well, if you get things right. And and you know, I heard you talk about it, I've heard Adam talk about it, I've heard the business talk about it, very consistent with that. And and for me, the the the best businesses invest in apprenticeships. Uh, and I and I wholeheartedly believe that. I know it's not always easy, but I think if you can create that organic funnel, the culture that creates a business is is second to none. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yeah, and and you are right. It's um it's an investment. You have to invest in apprenticeships. Um, and um it's exact for me, it's exactly the right thing to do in any business because you are you're creating a pipeline for the future and and at the same time, hopefully creating great people as well, you know. Yeah that people that can be the best versions of themselves in whatever um in whatever business setting they decide to go through. Because obviously it's almost impossible that everybody's gonna stay with you. Apprentices starting at the ages of somewhere between 16 and 19, you know, I can remember what it was like at that age, I didn't have a clue what I was gonna do. But um, I think I think it's harder for smaller businesses to invest in.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Um but you know, I would encourage anybody. I th I actually think um you'd be amazed at how positive it is for the culture of that business to have an apprentice, you know, if you're a one-to-tend business, have one apprentice, actually can really drive the rest of the people in there. It's you know, the the addition of um of that youth and energy uh is is sometimes game-changing. So yeah, I firmly believe in apprenticeship apprenticeships.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Uh you also you you see when you have people that in the business, you see people who you didn't think were going to be leaders, you see them step up and you see how they communicate, and and that in itself can create you know a lead within your business you didn't you didn't really say, and and and and often something sparks in them they didn't realize they had as well. So no, there's there's just so many, so many benefits to it. Um just finally before uh uh I summarise, um, tell us a little about SST, uh, if they don't mind, and uh which in terms of how they're set up and what what they're and what I guess what are the plans that are exciting you for the next sort of 12 to 18 months?

Apprenticeships And Cultural Impact

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Um so SST group has uh effectively been born out of dire engineering. So we've gone from single entity to uh a group entity. Um in the last well, maybe four or five months ago, we completed the acquisition of a company called Q Laser, which um the clue's in the title. It's a laser cutting business, so it it cuts metal, and um and dye are obviously you know our sweet spot on machine fabrications, so we we we fabricate weld, etc. Um, and that's the that's our first acquisition within SST Group. The the SST comes, I think I mentioned it earlier, comes from Smarter Stronger Together, which is um very much the the ethos and feel that you'll see in Dyer, and uh and we hope to bring that to every business that we acquire over the coming five, ten, fifteen, twenty years. Um the plan is very much to um well if if I if I said it wasn't growth, you'd you'd be you'd be able to throw something at me because I'm just saying that every business should be trying to grow, and that's exactly what we will be doing, um, is is one of growth. And you know, within the group setting, we plan to grow organically, grow acquisitively. Um and it's it's that it's that dream that I've probably mentioned a few times, which is um I want to create uh a northeast engineering or group of engineering businesses that can grow and scale, and and like I say, why not why not Rolls Royce? It probably won't be in my lifetime, but yeah, everything is a phase, isn't it? So you've got to get started. That's that's my favorite thing in life, is when people say you've got to have a plan and spend ages planning. I just never do. I'm like, right, well, let's do a broad brush strokes plan, and then I'm just gonna get started and we'll refine as we go along. Um, so you know, it to a certain degree that's what we do. We've just got started. And the next 12 to 18 months um is very much on the organic side of things. Um, obviously we've got a new acquisition, we're working bedding that in into the group. Um that's bringing its own challenges with us with it, as I'm sure any other business that's acquired another business will have found out. It's it's never as straightforward as you think it's gonna be, but that's also part of the fun, that's part of the challenge. Um and once we've stabilised and and you know delivered the organic growth that we're aiming to deliver, then we'll move on to the next phase and to keep going. And the challenge is you know the challenge is not too dissimilar what it to what it always is, is is to find the right people, um have them in your organization and and hopefully that you know people that get it and want to deliver it in the same way that you, or certainly a a flavour of what you want. Um and that's that's where the excitement for me comes from, is that whole journey of growth is if you get it right and uh sorry, more right than wrong, because no one no one gets it always right, is uh is is where the fun lies.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Amazing. Um look, thank you so much for this. This is you know, I won't do us justice in terms of wrapping up this episode because it's one of those episodes which is just lit a fire in me. And I think I was thinking of a bit of a takeaway. I think my so many takeaways in this one, but I think the main one for me is is it links in with your starter, your um smarter, stronger together because leadership is a lonely place, and I think being a leader is uh can be a lonely place, and as we've discussed, it doesn't have to be, you know, use your team and use the people around you. Pretty much everything we've talked about, you know, whether that be culture, whether that be vision, you know, whether that be with care, health and safety, it's everything is about not once of you mentioned you or a leader or you know, the management team. It's been about the business and how you do things together, how you listen, how you you create action from those community, those um conversations you've had. And I think that for me is the biggest takeaway that it doesn't have to be the leader of a business or you are a leader within the business, doesn't have to be lonely because you've got the team around you and there's brilliant people in there who potentially just need a locking to do brilliant things. And and that was a real a real takeaway for me that um I feel lucky to have the to work in business that that I do. And I think there'll be people driving in who probably don't realize that they're they're quite lucky to hold the position they they have because I think we forget that sometimes it's a position of privilege. So um, so thank you. Um, it's just been tremendous. Richard we really, really enjoyed it. So uh yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Well, thank you so much for for having me on here. You know, uh I always said you'd never get me on the podcast, but you did.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Persistence, you see. Persistence. Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. Please just like or subscribe, it really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team. I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter, and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums-on-seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help improve their lives, and ultimately I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon.