The Leadership Shift: Helping Engineers Step Up and Stand Out

In the latest episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast, Mark is joined by Ashleigh McKendrick, founder of The STEM Coach and an experienced chemical engineer turned leadership coach.

Together, they explore the often-challenging transition from technical expertise into leadership roles within engineering and STEM. Ashleigh shares her own journey from the oil and gas industry into coaching, highlighting the key moments that shaped her path and the insights she’s gained along the way.

The conversation dives into what it really takes for engineers to step into leadership - from building influence and visibility to maintaining technical credibility while developing a new skillset. 

They also discuss the unique challenges faced by women in engineering, from navigating cultural barriers to establishing authority in male-dominated environments. Ashleigh offers an honest perspective on what needs to change, alongside practical ways both individuals and organisations can better support progression.

From the role of mentorship and strategic career planning to understanding personal strengths through tools like DISC, this episode is packed with actionable insights for engineers looking to grow into leadership roles.

This is a conversation about evolution, self-awareness, and bridging the gap between technical brilliance and impactful leadership.

You can connect with Ashleigh on LinkedIn here.

Are you a leader in the manufacturing and engineering space? We're hosting an event on the 30th April 2026 and we'd love to see you there! You'll join Manufacturing Leaders from across the North East at New College Durham to share insights, challenges, and ideas shaping the industry's future.

Find out more and register your interest for the Manufacturing Leaders Summit 2026 by clicking here. 

Please like and subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.

Theo James is a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. 

If you’d like more information about Theo James, feel free to get in touch with the team or Mark anytime.

You can call us on 0191 511 1298. 

Transcript

Welcome And Why Engineers Stall

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast with me, Mark Bracknell, my director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we're welcoming on Ashley McKendrick, the founder of STEM Coach. I love this episode. Um, Ashley is an ex-engineer, having worked for a lot of blue chip engineering organizations. She now coaches and mentors engineers. And I thought what she does was fascinating. I couldn't wait to understand exactly what she does. Not only will this episode help engineers who are potentially looking to understand what they need to do in their career to get promoted and progress. And she goes into the specifically into the communication that they use, the mindset piece, even is down to the email you send to your potential boss or boss, how you can change and tweak that. But actually, as a leader, how you work with that person, how you allow them to be have a safe space to communicate in a meeting environment or one-on-one environment. And actually, for me, one of the biggest tips and takeaways if I analyse my own business and my own team is are we giving those people, are we giving perhaps the quietest people in the room the opportunity to speak out about a problem, about a challenge, or actually an opportunity? Because offering those people who understand your business extremely well, but perhaps haven't got the confidence to speak out and talk in a group setting. So that was a real hidden feature for me, and I'm I'm sure you're going to take that and loads more away. So thank you, Ashley. I think what you do is tremendous. I think someone who coaches engineers and the potential future principal engineers or future leaders of the industry is tremendous. So thank you very much. I hope everyone enjoys the episode. Please sit back, watch, and listen. And please, please, please just do me the honor of just clicking that like and subscribe, or maybe even giving the channel a rating. Um, as I've probably discussed with you already, we are doing a fantastic event, end of April, the Manufacturers Leaders Summit at New College Durham, which has previous guests of this show, plus loads of other talks, speakers, panel guests. We've got eight different seminars, it's gonna be mega, all raising money for the fantastic charity Red Sky Foundation. So hope you can attend. Please drop me a message if you'd like to. But without further ado, I hope you enjoy this episode. Thank you. A very, very warm welcome today to Ashley McKendrick, who is the founder of the STEM coach. How are we doing, Ashley?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

All right, very well, thanks, man. Very well. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Very good, thank you. Yeah, and thank you very much for coming on. I'm really looking forward to um talking to you about STEM, about engineers and and and everything in between. Um, first question is the same question I ask everyone that comes on, which is what does it mean to you to be a leader?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Um, well, to me, um, you've just asked that question, so it's not something I have rehearsed all of a standard answer for. So for me, I can only talk about what how I'm a leader, and I think everybody's a leader in their own way, and I think that's right and proper. Um, I'm a leader who I'm quite collaborative. I like to deal with people, um, I like people's opinions, but it's also, you know, it's not a democracy either. You know, it is a if you are a leader, you have to make those decisions and you have to be quite concise with those decisions and move on at that point. So I find I quite like the fact that I'm I'm always well respected by a team. Um so yeah, that's how that's how I lead a team. You get different people doing different things, you let a lot of people banging the table, and you you will follow me. And I kind of get that collaboration, but also you know, at the end of the day, that decision has to be made. And you can't have like three or four meetings where the decision just keeps rolling on, rolling on. So I feel a decision maker really has to be part of that good leadership.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yeah, and I guess that also links into like authentic leadership. I think that that's where for me leadership is is moved on for the better, where you know, textbooks and and and you know, stuff about business and leadership is important, but actually I'm seeing more authentic leadership now and people leading how which resonates with them and and actually what they feel comfortable doing, not what they've read or been told to do. Do you find that yourself?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Absolutely. I mean, it's um I mean I've been a woman in STEM for 25 years, so I did my degree in chemical engineering. Um, and yeah, it's difficult and it can be tricky in the fact that a lot of people kind of think, you know, you're not you're not capable of it, rightly or wrongly. Um, but actually where what I've found is you just have to keep on trying, and just the the actual technical brilliance comes through eventually, and people respect you for that. So I try to lead with you know, with with my technical ability as well, as the team lead the team involvement as well. So I think when people kind of look at me, I'm not trying to just be a team leader, I'm not trying to be the manager of actually been there and done it, and actually the decisions that I make are based on a technical basis rather than just um just from being a manager.

From Chemical Engineering To Coaching

SPEAKER_01 4:44

I think it'd be good to add some context. You briefly mentioned there as well. I think it'll be good for people listening to uh understand what your background is briefly, and then obviously what you didn't do now, because I think that's that that's fascinating. I've not come across many people who do what you do. So would you mind giving us initially some context into you touching it, Ashley, but your your background and I guess um what you do now, if that's okay?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, no problem. So without giving my age away, um 25 years I've spent in chemical um in engineering, mainly in the oil and gas industry. Um so I did my degree at Newcastle University um in chemical engineering, which I thoroughly enjoyed and did a year out of BP as well, which was great. Um and literally spent 25 years doing being a process engineer and kind of moved into project management as well. So leading the projects with that technical ability behind me as well, which has been it's I think that's a really, really good combination to have. Um so moving on from that, I've I now run a career, it's it's called the STEM coach, but I've kind of moved into looking at um mid-level to high-level professionals in engineering who are really technically exceptional. Um, because you have to be as an engineer. It's such a it's such a precise job, you know, and it's very detail-oriented, but feel as if they're really overlooked and fit, well, I guess under underrecognized as well. You know, they're really, really good at what they do, but as a leader, they're not seen as that next stage up. Um, I've kind of sat at those tables myself, so I understand the unspoken dynamics there and kind of what determines the progress. So I help people uh with behavioural intelligence, strategic visibility, and visibility that in an influence that accelerates a career without compromising the integrity. Because you get a lot of engineers who are very technically excellent at the detail, the calculations, they're seen as the safe pair of hands, but actually they're not seen as any sort of management at all. So I try and make help people move from that technical side to the management side.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

I I think it's brilliant what you do because I there's a lot of um great leadership coaches out there who really help leaders make decisions and and all that comes with a very challenging job. But you're the first person I've come across that works in STEM at that level, in exactly that that that gap, because it it it it is a massive problem. It is a problem where people just get promoted because they're good at what they do and they're not, you know, or or or they don't get promoted because they're not recognised for that. So I think I really want to unpick that. Um I'm keen initially to understand why you made that move because obviously you're in a really strong position, some brilliant companies, you know, excellent CV, someone who probably could have walked into any job he wanted to within that industry. What led you to make that jump from what you do now?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Um, from a personal point of view, I was with a company um called Green Energy for just the past 10 years, and I'm not a kind of person who sits in the same desk for the for 10 years because I don't, you know, everyone likes change. I actually do like change. But I was the project manager, the engineering manager for that company, and we did did a lot of bigger projects. So every three, four years I was moved on to a different project to go and project manage it. So I quite like the movement. Um, I'm not the kind of person who could sit at the same desk for 30 years at all. Um, and I've worked in, you know, the last project I did is was in Bahrain. Um and that one finished. We moved on to um decommission an oil refinery down at Eastide. And when that one finished, the company actually got bought up, bought out by a bigger company, Traffic Hero, which is a huge, huge worldwide company. But they decided that they wanted to do the big projects. And in in the company I was in, Green Energy, I was I was kind of the project manager for all the capital, the large capital projects, like the bar aim almost$45 million. So the bigger company came in and wanted the bigger projects, and it kind of just wasn't for me anymore. It was just a it was kind of one of those decisions. I was working long hours, it just didn't fit anymore with me, and I didn't want to do the small projects. Everybody's different, and the big engineering stuff really excites me. I love oil rigs, I love big tanks, I love big anything, anything big engineering I really love. And I don't think my heart was going to be in it going forward. That was all so I started looking for other jobs, and then kind of I'm also a volunteer Samaritan as well, and coaching is very similar to that when I started out because it's um it's non-directive, it's you know that sort of thing that somebody else finds the answer. So it kind of led me into coaching naturally, and I thoroughly enjoyed that. And I did a diploma um which I've just finished um last year, and I got a distinction in it, which I wouldn't have been happy with anything less, to be honest, because that's just my mind then. Um but I kind of start this company with the idea of coaching and mentoring, and it's it's just developed onto that, really. And I really like being my own boss. I'm probably working more hours than I was. For me now, just been a bit of a um a whirlwind in the past year, just trying to learn new things, but it's all the things I love doing, you know, it's all the things I've never done before, and I like that. You know, I like to challenge my brain, I like to do new things. So that's kind of where it's taken me over the past year.

Why Great Engineers Get Overlooked

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Amazing. What what's the biggest problem do you think you're trying to fix in your business right now?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

It's really simple, actually. So as an engineer, you're really, really good. As a process engineer, especially. People call them process engineers, some people call them chemical engineers. Um, you can sit and do calculations all day long, and that's what your employer do. You've got to be very technically good. You've got to understand the process extremely well. These are calculations that are safety-based, you know, they're going to save people's lives. So, like a relief valve on an oil rig, for example. You know, this these have to be precise. They've got to be, you know, down to the decimal point correct. And you get people like myself who like numbers, they like the analytics, they like the actual correctness of it. It's either black or it's white. You know, it has to be right or it's wrong. It gets approved and it and then it goes into operation. You know, you put this valve in and that is it, you know, for 20, 30 years. And it has to be correct because it has to operate under our normal conditions. But these people, and I put myself exactly in the same place, are so good at that, they actually they're too focused on it, and they're so good at their job, nobody wants to lose them from that position. And a lot of people think, oh, you know what, I'm really good at my job. It doesn't matter about the visibility, it doesn't matter about the the the influence I have in the company, it doesn't matter because everyone will see what a really good engineer I am, and that'll just pro that'll just look that'll just lead to promotion because I'll just step up to the next level, and it just doesn't. In reality, it just doesn't. And there are behaviors that engineers do portray that that don't help them either because they sit there and think it's all fine, I'm really good at what I do. Um and the detailer and keep the head down, and you know, the most important thing is to get that calculation correct and out on time to make the the project on time and you know safe. And actually, what they're not doing is promoting themselves. So that is the absolute biggest problem engineers specifically do have.

Spotting Promotion Potential In Quiet Talent

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, because it is it's a completely different sort of skill set, isn't it? That you know, selling yourself in any any arena, whether that's an an interview or a conversation with your manager. I'm interested in sort of kind of two different uh sides of the fence, I guess, because there'll be people listening who are engineers who will go, oh god, that that's me. Like, yeah, I'm I'm I enjoy what I do, but I just what how do I get to that next level? How do I make myself known that do I do do I, you know, am I ready for it? Because I guess that's a big conversation, internal conversation. And then there's the other side of the fence where I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on, as a leader, if there's leaders listening, what am I looking for? You know, what am I looking for? What traits should I be looking for to go? Are they ready for the next level? Because they might not have put the hand up. Could we unpick that one first, if that's okay, in terms of if there's a leader sat there, what should they be looking for? Telltale sign to go. That that engineer could be ready for some some form of a of a promotion.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I think really the first thing to look for is somebody's actually ready for it and actually wants it as well. Some people don't want it, and I'm here to kind of say, you know, you can come to me and I can help you with promotion. Some people don't want that, some people don't like change and they actually want to sit in their job and be comfortable. I said before, I'm not comfortable sitting in the same desk for 10, 20, 30 years. I'm just not. Um, but some people are. I think to a leader would recognise that in somebody who's looking for the change, looking for a little bit of promotion, talking about mentorship, looking for somebody in the company that's um gonna kind of like give them a buddy system or a mentor system, ask about what's going on in the strategic world in the company, you know, having a little bit more visibility in the company itself. Um, and really, I guess coming from a maybe even starting from a graduate point of view, giving people the idea of what's available for them as well, because people are taken on into jobs and they kind of get stuck there a little bit in engineering because they are so good at what they do.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, yeah. It's uh and and what I've seen, even when we're hiring here, uh, we tend to take people around that sort of 22 to 25 mark, oh, you know, for a reason that's the sort of people tend to apply here. And the difference I've seen last five years is people now want visibility of what they need to do to progress. They want that, they want that put in front of them, which I think great. You know, I think people are ambitious. I think gone are the days where people would just get their head down and and work and not put their head above. I think people are doing that, but not everyone, and you and it could be those people who aren't doing it, are your best people. So it's it's I think it's probably even more difficult as a lead now because you've got some people raising a hand who might not be ready, you might not be capable at this moment in time, and we've got other people might be in the business for 20 years, like you say, who almost don't know themselves if they're ready for development. Um, what would you you know when you're working with an engineer, you know, in that first sort of six months, what are the the basics you start to understand and start to try and improve them um or work with them on to try and get them ready for for some form of promotion, would you say?

Emails Language And DISC Insights

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Well, firstly, I analyse them before they even realize they're being analyzed. So I have a lot of clients that come to me, and even in the emails that we're organizing, the meeting, for example, the first discovery call, the second, you know, the this, the whichever meeting we're talking about, I analyze the way that they talk to me, the way that they email me, the language that they use, for example. They don't realise what they're, you know, that's anything is an interview, isn't it? You go into an interview, you you you start that interview the minute you walk through the door because the receptionist is interviewing you, and it all gets fed back. You're in the office, and it just happens to be somebody walks through the office and they're very high up in that company. They will see you, you are visible at all times. And that's kind of what I tell people as well. You know, you are visible to me as soon as you send me that hi, could we have a chat about this? Um, and I analyze, and we have a very honest discussion as well about this. I say to them, um, I will tell you in the nicest possible way, because I'm here to help any anything I anything I can see, any behaviors, any perceptions I that come across that instantly I can see as a third party. I've been that manager, and if you came into my room right now, what would I see? You don't think you're being you know analysed right now, but that email you sent, for example, X, Y, Z. So they've got to understand that that honest conversation has to happen as well. And the fact that actually change doesn't happen when you're comfortable. And there has to unfortunately have to be a very nice, uncomfortable conversation at some point. Um, they're probably not being promoted for reasons, and a lot of them can't understand it. A lot of them think, I don't know, I've been in this position for five, six years, and it's just not happening for me. And I get I see people and they're just being promoted above me. And honestly, um, I see behaviors and language and perceptions that I, you know, that they think is acceptable that I don't. Um, if I was their boss, I wouldn't promote them either. So it's trying to have those conversations with them in a in the nicest way possible. I haven't got a bad bone in my body, but it's trying to you come to me for help. Yeah, I'm trying to give you that help. And and that, you know, I I will not agree with you 100% of the time, but that's what you need. That's actually what you're paying me to do. Um, and it's not in a harsh way. Um, I also do start with some sort of it's called disk analysis as well. So you kind of look at the personality of somebody and you work with that personality. You don't kind of look at, well, it's all wrong. You work with that personality. So you find a lot of the engineers are very detail-oriented, um, compliant-oriented, but they're not very dominant. They can be introverts. It's not a bad thing, absolutely not. But there are kind of traits that you can just add in. You can just add some things in to help them, just bring that dominance out a little bit. And if they're aware of it, sitting in a meeting, I have to speak in the first 10 minutes just to get noticed, you know, things like that that you would normally wouldn't do. So there's a lot of things I do from the off, really, but that that disc analysis is really important for me to understand who they are, and it's absolutely not about changing who they are, because that's not going to work either. Absolutely not. You've got to be who you are, you've got to be true to yourself, but you've also got to understand the pitfalls of your personality type as well. And um, and it could be one way, you could be too dominant, you could be too introverted, you could be too extroverted. There's not too much of anything or too little of anything. It's just trying to find that balance of of what people are looking for.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Yeah, I think that's really good advice. I think the minute you understand yourself better, because people talk about confidence and go, I'm not I can't because I'm not confident. Confidence is a is a feeling, isn't it? Which which can be up and down within a day to next. But it it that's not a it's not a trait, per se, it's uh for me.

Speaking Up Without Perfect Certainty

SPEAKER_00 18:09

No, it's not. And um, I think a lot, for example, a lot of technical professionals wait wait absolutely till they're 100% certain of something before they'll speak. Because it in their mind, that is the way that they that's their job, they have to be right. Whereas leaders tend to lead a bit more with um assertion and a bit more, right, this is what we're gonna do. And that's why you need to have a little bit of that. You could say, I haven't got the exact answer right now, but I will come back to you. You've still given an answer. No, it's not technically correct, but you've given somebody the time scale that you will come back to them with that. And you've also spoken in the meeting. So actually, people think, oh no, that's great. Somebody's spoken, I've got an answer from them, and by Friday, close of play, I will have the technical answer, you know. But at least then that's when he's been visible. Whereas seen too many people, engineers specifically, sitting in meetings thinking, I can't say anything because I've not I've not absolutely finalised that calculation yet. And they'll still have it by Friday, but nobody knows that. They haven't vocalized that to anybody, and yet all could all the senior leaders see is a quiet engineer sitting in the corner.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, yeah. And actually, what's interesting is now, you know, there is there is an app there's absolutely a place for quiet leadership. You know, some of the best leaders I work with now are introverts, you know, the you know, they're not these extrovert big bullshit characters, you know, the people who who are trusted because they're good at what they do, and like you say, they they hold themselves accountable and and they're humble and they'll they'll make mistakes and build their hands up. It's um I think it it's it's open up a opportunity now for I imagine people like you to work with to be promoted because of the way they do things, not the way not who they are to some extent.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Absolutely, and I've worked with lot, I mean, I'm sure everybody has worked with somebody who bangs the table, who shouts at everyone and kind of leads by that you know tyranny. And it doesn't work for me. I don't I don't respond to that. I am a natural introvert, I'm never gonna be any different. I'm not gonna be standing up there on a stage and loving it. I'm not, because I'm never gonna be that person, because I'm not that person. I am quiet. Um like for example, today, this isn't the most comfortable thing I've ever done in my life, but you know what? It's nice, I'm just told to you, it's absolutely fine. And you kind of get used to that. Yeah, and in my when we talked about leadership, I like to be accountable for things and I like to be responsible for things because if I'm responsible and accountable for something, it gives me that drive to do it correctly. A lot of people hide behind that. I don't. Um, I actually like that. And when I say, you know, if you're gonna ask me to be accountable for it, please give me the responsibility of it as well. You know, I'll I'll die on my sword, I'll fall on my sword if it's wrong, but at least give me a full chance of you know doing that. And with my technical background as well, that's kind of helped me lead the teams in a really nice way. Um, you know, I'm a quiet person. I will never stand in a meeting and shout at people or bang the table. It's just not my style at all. Not saying that's right or wrong, it's just my style. I'm never going to change who I am. But I think people who are quieter and less confident, as you said, but confidence can come and go. It's not a confidence thing. But you do need to know what your personality is, how to use it, how to use the strengths, and how to just be aware of those kind of pitfalls. I can quite easily sit in a meeting and not say anything, quite easily, even in a social aspect. I'm I'm probably quite extroverted when I'm with really, really close friends, but in a big group, people very, very introverted. And when you sit in big engineering meetings, you can instantly go back to your natural personality and go, I'm not going to speak, and I'll write it down and I'll tell somebody later. It's understanding that and really understanding that you can say something. It doesn't have to be absolutely correct at that time, but it's just to say something and have that visibility in those meetings without kind of reverting back to your natural uh introverted personality. So, yeah, absolutely leaders can be whoever they want to be. I absolutely am an introvert and I've made a really good leader and I've I've made a good career out of it. So

Meetings That Give Everyone A Voice

SPEAKER_01 22:00

I think like anything, you know, feel the feeling of of confidence comes from from data within within you. And the more you do something, the more confident you feel if if the feedback you've had is positive. You know, the first time I did a podcast, I was petrified. The first I run a few events, and the first time I did I the the night before the first event ever ran, didn't I didn't sleep, you know, everything can go wrong. Now I enjoy them because I've done enough to go, okay. I'm I'm I feel confident in the ability. It's exactly the same with this, isn't it? That the first time they hold that, they put the hand up or they they speak in a in a meeting is petrifying, and so the second, third, fourth time, but you know, maybe the fifth or sixth, they've got enough data to go, I I'm I know what I'm talking about, you know, I'm confident my ability and what I'm saying here is correct. I was in a meeting once, um, I was observing a meeting once, and um it was for a client of ours, and I was just sat in there, and I thought it was great because what they did, they had an agenda, and normally meetings are a bit of a free-for-all, and the loudest people in the room normally have the have the um you know talk the most. This is very different. They had an agenda and they said you've each got two minutes to talk, and they went round the room, and the only rule was that no one can speak when someone else is speaking, and it was it worked really well because it allowed people who traditionally probably sit back when others come to the fore to have a voice, and actually, you could tell it was those people when they talked, they had something to say, and it was you know, it was analytical and it was communicated well. So it's and it's it's I I find this stuff really interesting. I do, yeah. And I I I do think it's this is a lesson for leaders as well, because all you're talking about here, a lot of it is you know, there's not always a meeting every week, there's a meeting in a factory, there's a stand-up in a factory, and I think leaders will will probably lean on certain people to talk in that, but actually, it could be the quietest people in that group who have got the got something to say, which might be one idea, one efficiency idea, one health and safety problem, something which will will change everything for that business.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Absolutely, and actually they're the people who who don't normally speak because they're a bit nervous about speaking, or they're naturally introverted and hate speaking in front of people, they may speak to their butt or their line manager after the meeting. It's a bit too late at that point, and that's what I'm trying to tell people. So it's people who are very compliant-based on this disk analysis, you know, it's um they don't like ad hoc speaking, and that's a bit like me. So, what I do is I kind of give them a little bit of a script to kind of have in the meeting. Yeah, and say, you know, you you need to speak in the first five minutes, you need to do this, and they can just look at it and just kind of think, I need to do this, and it kind of bolsters them a little bit to think I've got somebody behind me here who's who's told me I'm really good at what I do. Um, and that little bit of paper, because they don't like the ad hoc speaking, gives them the script. They don't need the script actually, but they do they do just need that prompt in that meeting to remind them, I need to speak in this meeting. So did I speak early? Did I actually speak in that meeting at all? No, you didn't. You need to speak in that meeting, and no matter I'm not saying talk rubbish, but actually, you know, you are a lead process engineer, you are there with value. You will have something to say in that hour-long meeting, whatever it is, you will be asked a question or you will you will have an opinion of something. Um or did you just attach yourself to outcomes and just taste like, oh yeah, I'll take that and I'll do it. That's not having influence, that's just taking more jobs on, you know. Um, but yeah, it is, it's just more about you know, just having that influence. And and that's why a lot of people quite like a little script to kind of go in with. So it just makes them sure. Gives them that accountability, and then then come back to me the week after and say, and I'll say, right, didn't you do that? And they're a bit more embarrassed after you just say, No, I didn't do that. So they're actually, yes, I forced myself to do that. And yes, they force themselves to do that. But you're right, Mark, in the next three, four, five meetings afterwards, it starts to become normal. I'm not saying it'll become comfortable, but it starts to become normal. And like you say, you know, I remember sitting in meetings, you know, for the first time, thinking, God, I could never lead a meeting like that. Five, six years later, 10, 20 years later, yes, you're leading these meetings. You walk in without even batting an eyelid. You know, you just think, oh God, there's 50 people in this room. You know, whatever. Because I know technically what I'm doing, I know technically what the project is, I know the project planning side out, I know where every penny sits in this project. Anyone could ask me any question at any point, and I'd be absolutely fine. So confidence does come with a little bit more ability um and a bit more, you know, um confidence in meetings as well, and knowing how to how to kind of um kind of be yourself in a meeting as well.

Manufacturing Leaders Summit Update

Helping Introverts Contribute Without Panic

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah, it gets about that authenticity, isn't it? Hello everyone, hope you're well. I just want to give you a quick update on how everything is going so far with organizing the Manufacturing Leaders Summit, which I'm I'm super excited about. It's going really well. Tickets are selling fast. We have a suggested ticket price of£15. Remember, everything we raised goes to the tremendous Red Sky Foundation. So feel free to donate more. We've got some amazing sponsors, um, SST being our headline sponsor, some fantastic sponsors on the day who also have the opportunity to um have a stand at our mini expo as well. We have got eight different workshops to choose from, we've got an amazing panel of people who are going to talk about helping get young people into engineering and how we can plug that skills gap. We've got some brilliant speakers all around STEM, we've got um authors, we've got even got an Olympian, we've got people done TED Talks. I've been blown away with the response, and I've been blown away with how it's been organized by fantastic New College Durham, which is an amazing facility, which you'll also get the chance to have a tour and see. So, tickets are going fast, the workshops are filling up fast. Please feel free just to um send the link to anyone in your leadership team. It's gonna be a great day of networking. The the hub where we'll be at lunchtime is a fantastic way to meet other manufacturing leaders as well. So I absolutely can't wait. It's gonna be April the 30th, 2026. So please make sure you get the tickets because we have got a maximum capacity which we will fill quite shortly. So, um, any questions, please let me know. Thank you very much to every single person who has signed up so far. It's gonna be a great, great day. It's gonna add value to manufacturing and engineering. So thank you very much. Please click on those comments and get your tickets. Thank you. Would you have any advice for because what I was when you're talking now, I was you know, imagining a stand-up and leader maybe listen to this going, Ashley's absolutely right. I've got James, my chemical engineer, who I know is great, but he's got no confidence in meetings. I wish he talked. I'm gonna make sure on the next meeting he talks. Yeah, but I also imagine if you pick someone out in a meeting who isn't expecting it and is is introvert, you you're potentially gonna rock them for a long time. What's the best way for leader to to get that out of an engineer? Would you say pre-warn them or what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 28:52

It kind of depends on their personality types. If you were more dominant, you might like that sort of ad hoc, you know, um, you don't mind somebody kind of coming to you in a meeting. I would hate it if I wasn't quite prepared for it. If it was a technical question, that's fine. Um, but some people kind of fluster and then it it looks worse. Actually, it looks like they don't know what they're talking about when actually they do absolutely know what they're talking about. They just got put in a situation they weren't expecting. So I think the mentoring thing really helps because it kind of really allows people to help them ongoing. It's not just trying to get somebody in meeting, I'm gonna get this guy, like you know, whoever to talk in this meeting today. It's not about that, it's about preparing them and saying, for the next three, four, five meetings, I want you to contribute more. It's not about, you know, in the next meeting I want you to say three wonderful things because they might not have three wonderful, you know, insightful things to say in that meeting. And it puts people under pressure. It's a case of just trying to tell people, this is where you are, this is where I'd like you to be. Let's see how we can bridge those gaps. How, you know, I know I would go about it differently under my personality than you might, for example. Um, I've worked with clients who like that little script, they like to sit there and think, right, in meeting one, I will do this. Because engineers are very analytical, they like something tangible, they follow rules, right? Step one is I will say this. Step two, somebody with a dominant personality would hate that, you know, they think, God, I don't know what I'm gonna say, I'll just go with the flow. So it's it depends on the person, but yeah, I think that mentoring thing really does help and it helps with the accountability, and then somebody can come away and say, you know, that didn't work, or that did work, or I've had people who will, you know, don't prepare for meetings very well, and then complain that, oh, well, I was flustered in the meeting, I didn't know what was going on. And actually, when you dig down, they've not prepared for it. You know, they've not prepared for the fact that you know you are going to be asked these questions, you are the lead person, that's what you're paid to do. Um, so be prepared for that meeting. Um, junior assistant project managers, um junior engineers kind of not preparing for the meeting, say if their boss doesn't turn up, well, you know what, prepare, prepare for that meeting as if he's not prepared to turn up because you know what? When are you gonna be prepared anyway? You're gonna sound a lot better in the meeting, even just by contributing if you've prepared as if you were gonna lead that meeting. And thirdly, anything can happen. That man or woman could just not turn up or kind of go, do you know what? Something's crocked up. Can you just lead that meeting today? And it's happened numerous times to me. And the worst thing is if you're not prepared. So I kind of get people to think ahead. Always prepare for something that might not happen because what's the worst gonna happen? You've just got not more knowledge in your head. It doesn't matter that you haven't led the meeting, but all of a sudden you understand the meeting more. You're probably gonna ask more insightful questions in that meeting, and people are gonna notice you more because actually you actually know where the the program is, the the the costs are, the this, the that, anything, you know, people go, God, they know exactly what they're talking about. You know, whereas rather than just be a participant in the meeting.

Being A Woman Leading In STEM

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah, yeah, perfect advice. You've you know, if you talk about engineering, you know, you know, particularly chemical engineering, uh it's a very male-dominated environment. You know, that you know, STEM unfortunately is still has a big gap with uh, you know, female engineers, but actually particularly of a you know of a certain age, because we spoke up before. What's that been like for you being, I guess, in some situations, you've been the only one woman in the room? And we, you know, we're talking about meetings in these situations, and and that in itself is uh for a lot of people is a is another barrier to to be that. Well, how how how have you found that over time?

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Um, it's been difficult. It's I'm not gonna lie, but it's not put me off, and I wouldn't put any woman off in go on engineer. It's been a great career. I've earned a lot of money doing it, I've travelled the world doing it, but it is something you have to be aware of, and it's another barrier if you are an introverted person because it stops you speaking in that room. It does because you you shout it down or talked down or talked over. There's been plenty of times when I've had an idea or said something, and it's oh yeah, and then a man says it two seats down and it's oh my god, it's the best idea in the world. And that's just that is what it is. But you have to be clear and concise with what you're saying and not shout above everybody else. There's been numerous occasions where I've been said, you know, you're the secretary, or can I have two cups of tea with you know, a cup of tea with two sugars love, you know. And then they're very embarrassed because actually you're the one leading that meeting, and then they're sitting with their head in their hands thinking, oh dear, that wasn't um that wasn't great. Um and that happens, that happens a lot. You kind of get used to it. I'm not saying you should have to get used to it, but you do get used to it. I've worked in the Middle East as well, and that's even kind of worse, I guess, because they're not used to women leading the meetings as well and leading and being those project managers. But I think overall what has helped me is my technical ability and the respect that I get from people who actually, once you do start speaking, it's getting over that initial kind of barrier of well, who who is this woman coming in? And actually, when you start speaking and leading the meeting with authority, and I quietly lead with authority, I don't like to say I don't shout, but you just quietly lead it. I like you know procedures, I like systems, I like a meeting to run well, I give everyone actions with clear deadlines, you know. It's it's a controlled meeting. I always like to run a controlled meeting, keep them nice and friendly, and I've got that technical background, so actually people know that I know what I'm talking about, and people can't kind of go, oh, we can't do that because of X, Y, and Z of well, you can't do that because I know fine well that's not what the process is. So it takes a little bit of time. But I think that technical ability really showed that really comes through, and that's where I've gained the respect throughout my career.

Why Women Leave Engineering Midcareer

SPEAKER_01 34:18

I think what's really fascinating about that is that's the exact same advice for an engineer who might be introverted. It's exact same advice, isn't it? To just to to understand you you you're good at what you do and to to lean on your on your strengths, and and the rest is completely irrelevant, you know, because ultimately if you communicate, if you communicate well enough, yeah, people will listen. Yes, and and then which which which which is which is excellent advice. Um, because it is uh you know, I'm I'm I I feel like you know more companies uh uh are putting it at the forefront to try to solve this this problem, but ultimately it's before that. It's you know not enough not enough young girls are getting into you know the the the type of subjects you know the STEM subjects to get into engineering that needs to be sorted before you know we're really going to make an impact. And um I really hope that does. I know we spoke before about actually there's a there's a problem which a lot of people don't talk about. Even when you get to women in engineering, there's a certain time where they'll leave. And and understanding, you know, understanding that is as important as understanding why they're not there in the first place. So talk me through a little bit about that in terms of your your experience and where you feel the gap is and the problem is there.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Um I think you need more women coming through the STEM subject. So it definitely starts at a much younger level, which you know, there are a lot of organizations that help that. I I actually do mentor quite a few people at university pro bono anyway, um, just to help them through you know the difficult stages. And it's it's mainly women at that stage that I help through. Um what I don't agree with, I think later on, is women being taken on for jobs just because they're a woman to hit the quota. Um, I absolutely disagree with that. Um, just because I'm a woman doesn't mean that I'm you know on this crusade of getting more women in engineering. You need the right women in engineering, but you need the right people, you need more volume coming through to pick those right women. Um, a lot of women can't handle it, a lot of women aren't very good job engineers, and that's just fact. A lot of men aren't very good engineers either, but it doesn't mean to say that, you know. Um so yeah, I think coming through, you definitely need the volume coming through more, because then you're gonna pick the right people for the job. At the end of the day, I wouldn't pick a woman engineer to be on my team if I didn't think they were good enough, and that is just the bottom line. That is just that is just the truth. Because and I know leaders would be exactly the same, their bonus could be affected by the project's success. If you haven't got the right team there, irrelevant whether they're irrelevant what they are, who they are, I don't really mind. You know, as long as that project is success, I don't think anybody cares at the end of the day what the water looks like. So for me, I would always take on the right team, and I've always worked with people who I think I would definitely work with them again, and there's other people I think I definitely wouldn't work with them again. I think even all leaders would say, if I start a project tomorrow, I know which my what my team would look like. I know I'd pick them from that company and take them from that because I work with them, they were really good. Um, and it's having the right team, really. But yeah, I think in the on your point of women leaving, they do tend to leave. I think the average is about 43. They leave engineering. That's such a lot of talent walking out the door. It really is. Um, it was actually the age that I left. But that was for other reasons. I guess that was because you know that the company got bought out and there was other reasons behind that. But I think the you know, women tend to have families, they have busy lives. You know, the engineering doesn't seem uh it doesn't have like a hybrid option, particularly. Um, you know, their long hours, this it's a stressful job. But you know what? It comes with great rewards, it's not a it's not a negative, it's not a negative at all.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah, I completely agree. It's um it's interesting actually. We ran an event of the week at um company called Walker Filtration, and um we had a site tour, and what I walk around a lot of factories in the factory knowing most weeks, and um I was instantly surprised that the the shop floor were probably about 60 to 70 percent female to male, and and and and that isn't you know that isn't the norm. And and I and I I said to the plant manager, I said, John, don't mind me asking. I said, I'm you know, I've noticed it's the case, you know, is that was that you know how why is that? And he just said the he said um the work they do um is very dexterous, it's very intricate, and we run the skills tests, and the people who pass that more often not win more men. I thought that and I loved that answer because ultimately it's exactly what you're talking about. They just happen to be female to male divide because all they've done is the best person of the job, and and and because you know they're a little bit more, they tend to be more dexterous by you know by type than that has happened. And I just I thought I I just wish other companies thought like that because it doesn't matter for me in terms of age, gender, race, background. No, interview the interview the people who love right for the job, and the people who are best job give give the best give them that that that job. I don't think that happens. I think it's more of a it's been traditionally quite a boys' club mentality engineering, which is which has led to you know literally the at more level being a very similar type of person, and that then creates a culture in a business which is very hard to break. So but we need to do that to to make it more accessible for women and young girls in engineering. But it's um it was it was just refreshing to sit to hear that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It is actually, yeah. And it's it's right what you say about different types of people are right for the different types of job. I've got I've got three children, and my eldest one's actually going to be a pilot next year. Um, he's gone to America to be a pilot. Now he's absolutely as cool as a cucumber. He's a perfect pilot, he's calm under pressure. He's this one of my daughters, she would be a kamikaze pilot, she'd be the worst person to be a pilot in the world. So again, it's nothing to do with a male or female, it's just the types of personality, the kind of people that they are, and that other one would be much better doing something else. He's an absolutely perfect example of being an excellent pilot. Yeah, but the other one definitely not, you know. It's um so it just depends on, like you say, if more women came in, it was more of a dexterous job, then you know what, the right people just got the job at the time, you know. So that's and it is very refreshing to say that because I am not on a crusade of more women need to be an engineering. No, the right people need to be an engineering. It's a stressful job. Yeah, it's an important job. It it you know, it really saves lives when you're on those oil rigs to have those safety systems in place. I'd prefer the right person doing that calculation.

Hiring Bias And Fair Teambuilding

SPEAKER_01 40:28

100%. I think you know, equal opportunities for me is really basic. The same opportunity should be available for everybody. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's as simple as that. And um, until that happens, I think it will continue to pro it's a real it's an issue sometimes with the job that we do, you know, because I think people are very honest with people like us, and too honest. And I had we had a situation not too long ago where there was a heavy industry role. Um, and it was yes, yes, it was quite a man-year-old. And he said they just kept saying, I I think he needs to be, or he, and and I just said, Look, you know, you mentioned a few times, you know, and your shop floor is is quite you know male dominated. Would the you know, would there be a problem if we put a female? He just said, I just don't think it's a job, yeah, it's a real manual tough job. And I get his point that you know traditionally men will be, but that doesn't mean there are women out there who are just as capable as those people in there, and that it's um it was just a mindset shift that I could just tell they weren't ready to to have. And it's that's a real challenge for sometimes because it's um and we will always try to to do what we can, but until hiring managers just look outside of the norm and what's worked in the past, it'll never change, nothing will ever change.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

No, and it does start a bit, I mean it has got slightly better over the years, it has. I mean, I've kind of got so used to just sharing porter cabins with scaffolders and whoever, but they're all men, you know. But I have to get changed in that room, you know, and it hasn't bothered me. It's just it's because it's become the norm. You need to share bathrooms with them and this and that, you know, there is no segregation at that point because you are the only woman there. They're not going to provide an extra room on a construction site or an oil rig for me, you know, and they're not, so you have to get used to that. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but um, you know, it's and people wouldn't like that. I got used to it. Um nowadays they do. You know, I do kind of go out there and um provided a separate room. That kind of gives separate issue because you're well, you're you're a special case, aren't you? The men's toilets because they're people. But yeah, there's been plenty of times I've got changed in you know, in the the porter cabins and had to put it with the the language and the the posters on the wall and all that sort of thing. But you know, well, that kind of that came with the job at the time.

Reviews Mentoring And Career Path Clarity

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Yeah, yeah, and that is saying I think that is changing for for the better now. Well, all this stuff that's uh we've spoken about, and and I guess um, you know, probably particularly for the engineer piece, I would say, given the experience and what you do now. If there's you know HR managers sat here or hiring managers sit here, or or people who you manage large teams or maybe are in charge of that structural or or process picks, what can companies start to put in place to identify people in their business which are in the wrong roles and should be you know should be looking at some form of uh of promotion. Is it is it mentorship, a buddy system, is it you know structuring differently? What what uh sort of two or three key pieces of advice you'd you'd give them, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I think everybody knows if they actually want to move or not, and I think it's trying to have those conversations with people about their career development and about maybe having those um annual or bi-annual reviews out you know per year um because they don't happen either. Or they say they happen and they kind of don't, they're a bit of a tick box exercise. It's like, oh, we've had our review and I've had plenty when I go, have we? Have we had a review this year? Well, I had a quick chat with you, but it's actually not that and it's having that protected time with your line manager to kind of say, Look, this is where I am, this is where I'd like to be. It doesn't mean to say that you're going there, but it means to say that you've actually just said where you're going. Any gaps? Is there anything I can do to kind of make myself a bit more available for that job? Is there any more training I need? Um, I'm actually not very happy in the job. I'm I mean, I actually would love to do that job, and there's sometimes not the opportunity, don't get me wrong. Life manager can't go, oh yeah, we'll just swap you over tomorrow, you know. But it's having that conversation, it maybe take the sideways step to move on to a different job if you are in a larger company to be able to do that. And it actually may be to leave that company and come in back into the company at a higher level. Because I've had that many times, you can't really move up the company too much because you can only kind of go up a grade. Um, if you come out of that company and then go back in, you can go up three or four grades in big companies, you know. So, again, leaving the company is sometimes the opportunity that you actually need to do, even if it's a sideways step. Um so yeah, it's having those conversations and being open and honest. And I guess the companies need to be listen to those conversations and not promise the earth, because you know, you you might not have those availabilities or those opportunities, but it's to kind of look at the gaps and kind of see if you can bridge them, or be honest and say, look, I don't think this is going to happen, or whatever. But her mentoring system is very good to kind of help people with that, and it gives people the accountability and somebody just to just to talk over with as well. Because sometimes you just need to think, is it just me or can I just talk to you about something, you know? So it's I think that's that's really good for people as well.

STEM Coach Plans And How To Reach

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Yeah, no, amazing advice. And just finally, what are you excited about in your own business for the next sort of 12 to 18 months?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Oh, it's just really growing it, and I think the main thing I would really love to do is really help people because I can really see where people are. I'm not saying gone wrong, but I can really see the behaviors, even when they come to me with our first email and they say, I don't know why I'm not being pro, but the language they're using is wrong, the way that they're talking, they don't, you know, there's lots of things I can I can instantly say straight away. And I've had people who don't like that advice, and I've had people who think, God, that's I didn't know that. I genuinely did not know that. And that has been the best thing anybody has ever said to me, you know. And humans are humans, some people don't like to hear it. Um but I am a humble person, and I would never say anything, I would never say anything to to make somebody upset at all. But it's just to get into their minds that I'm here to help and I'm actually here to, you know, really progress. If you want progression, then I can instantly see some things you can do. And then we delve into the personality. So you know, I'm really excited to to kind of really help people move on and really see those those blockers that people have got.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Excellent. And and what's the best way to contact Yashley? Is it is it LinkedIn email website? What's the best?

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Uh yeah, I'm on LinkedIn under Ashley McKendrick. If you have a look at the stem coach, um I'm on stemcoach.com as well, or emails Ashley at the stemcoach.com.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Well, well, thank you. This has been amazing because I think what you do is get fantastic, and I I really think it's a it's a missing piece of the jigsaw within the industry because they're like I say, you know, there's some fantastic leadership coaches, but actually it's I've you know to come across someone who who coaches engineers, I think is tremendous. And and there's some great tips and takeaways there, not not only for the engineers themselves, who you know, even as as as simple and effective as the communication they use in email, which there'll be a lot of people going, yeah, I've completely overlooked that. I think you know, I I often when I'm when I have the you know, I'm I'm lucky I get to do these these interviews because I I learn something every time and I often I always reflect. So I think the big one for me is you know, I've you know I've got a small team team of 16 people, but out of that 16, there's always three or four who aren't always the loudest ones who just get their head down and graft. And and I think sometimes it it can be too easy to go, they're they're they're great because they're just getting it there, they're never moaning, they're never complaining, they're just getting their head down and grafting, but they could be the ones who actually have the best ideas, and it and I'm thinking, well, how can we set an environment to make sure that they they can talk about any any problems and concerns because that's the they might be sat there going, why aren't I promoted? or or or I've actually we have an environment where they can help the business, and I think that's been a big takeaway for me, and I'm sure will be for for other people. Um so no, thank you for this. It's been superb, so I really appreciate it, and um, yeah, and and good luck with everything you do because I think it's uh it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Oh, thank you very much, Mike. It's been lovely to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. Please just like or subscribe, it really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James, as I mentioned midway through the episode, please get in touch with me or the team. I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business. We are more than just a recruiter, and I know people say that, but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums-on-seats approach. We want to help people grow, we want to help improve their lives, and ultimately I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do, and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please, if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people, please get in touch with me or the team. I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail. Thank you very much. Speak soon.