AI, Automation and the Future of Engineering Leadership

In the latest episode of the Manufacturing Leaders' Podcast, Mark Bracknall is joined by Tim MacLaren, Operations Director at Industrial Technology Systems (ITS).

Tim shares his unconventional career journey, from starting out in the police force to building a successful career in digital operations, technology and engineering leadership. 

The conversation explores the importance of authentic leadership, with Tim sharing his thoughts on developing your own leadership style rather than trying to emulate others.  

Mark and Tim dive into the work being done at Industrial Technology Systems, discussing the role of systems integration in sectors including pharmaceuticals, nuclear and energy. 

They explore how technology, automation and AI are helping manufacturers improve efficiency, reduce downtime and future-proof their operations.

The episode also highlights the strength of the North East business community, with Tim sharing why collaboration, support and knowledge-sharing have played such an important role in both his career and the region's continued growth.

This is an insightful discussion on leadership, career development, innovation and the opportunities that come from embracing change.

Whether you're leading a team, navigating a career transition or interested in the future of manufacturing and technology, this episode offers plenty of valuable insights and practical takeaways.

Click here to connect with Tim on LinkedIn.

Click here to see our upcoming events.

Please like and subscribe - it genuinely helps grow the show and, in turn, helps push the industry forward.

Theo James is a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. 

If you’d like more information about Theo James, feel free to get in touch with the team or Mark anytime.

You can call us on 0191 511 1298. 

Transcript

Welcome And Why Leadership Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Leaves Podcast. My name is Mark Bracknell, and I'm the Managing Director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we welcomed on Tim McLaren, the operation director of industrial technology solutions. I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Tim is honestly one of the most genuinely nice guys I've ever had the pleasure of interviewing on the Manufacturing Leads Podcast. And we really talked about his journey, which is interesting in itself, going from an ex-police officer to engineering to leadership. Obviously, we talked in detail about what ITS to do, we talked about AI, we talked about automation. But actually, within that, it was all about leadership. It was all about being an authentic leader, it's all about looking for those opportunities in challenging situations. It's one of those episodes where you're just going to listen and be grateful for being a leader. Sometimes, in the roles we are as managers and leaders, it's difficult, it's challenging. And you just sometimes need to hear from other leaders to understand that everyone goes through these challenges, but it's important to look for that positivity within difficult times sometimes. So I won't say too much. You're going to thoroughly enjoy this episode. Thank you so much, Tim, for taking the time out. Um, I will add that before we start the show, his little girl blessers, 10 years old, put a sign on the door that said podcast. So there was no interruptions during this episode. Please, please, please ever help like and subscribe the show. It massively helps um promote the industry and promote the show. So thank you very much. Hope you enjoy.

Defining Leadership Through Authenticity

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Speak to a uh massive warm welcome today. So today we have Tim McLaren, the uh Operations Director of Industrial Technology Systems. How are we doing, Tim? You all right?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I'm very well. I'm very well, yes, really delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yeah, very, very happy to have you on the uh have you on the show. So can't wait to get into it. You've had a very um interesting career. But the first question is the same question I ask everyone coming on, which is what does it mean to you to be a leader?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Uh I think summing it up really in one word of authenticity. Um, and uh a big part of being a leader is being myself, but being someone that people can aspire uh towards. Um, giving I was giving my staff, giving my teams uh that that guidance, that um, yeah, a bit of a bit of inspiration, and uh as a leader, surrounding myself by people who are better than me, uh, and surrounding myself by people who want to be on the journey, give and giving them a journey that they want to be on. Uh, and I and I think that's that's really the fundamental is me being authentic so that people can be on that journey with me. And together we can have we can have success, supporting people, mentoring people, giving them a nice, um, a good career to have, but fundamentally it's it's authenticity. And uh I liken it back to uh when I when I did my um MBA uh through uh during COVID, and after my MBA, I was invited back the following year to to present at their leadership week that they had and uh talked a little bit about my my past, my career, and and yeah, that that I have had. I have had a bit of a varied, uh varied career that we'll we'll no doubt talk about uh at a time. But a a similar question came up there and it was it was kind of had a slide that was you what what what do you want to be as a as a leader or what what is a leader? And my slide was blank, and I said, Yeah, you can't really define exactly for me what the leader is, it's it's you, it's you make your authentic uh uh style, you make your authentic um leadership that your leader that you're going to be. Um, and that when I was even preparing for that one, it kind of resonated as to no, a a leader isn't just a one, two, three, these are what it is. It is everybody's different, but you can uh you can take I've taken inspiration from leaders I've worked for, and I take I take the good bits and I avoid the bad bits and come up with my own path through it. And and that that's worked really well. And I remember um one one of uh one of my previous bosses who um I worked with for well over 10 years, and he he took me on a really good journey as part of my career, and the the mentoring that we were we were doing ended up being mentoring without really knowing that it was being mentoring. Um and when he was due to retire, he he said to me, look, don't don't be uh don't be a copy of him. Take take the good bits that I've found from him, but carve my own path. And that that's always stuck with me, and that's exactly what I've done. I've I've taken the best bits of the the leaders who've been around me, and I'm supposed making it up as I go along, but I'm making it up with the with with what I see from um from all of the good people that have been around me.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

I I think you know that's tremendous advice. And actually, I've of all the answers we've had, I don't think anyone said ever said that authenticity, and it's so important, it really is, because I I think I struggle with that a little bit because I think when you when you start, whether you own it, whether you you know have a team or a business, whatever it is, I think you almost feel you have to be a certain way. You know, we we either get trained in a certain way or we read books and we try to become what we believe a leader should should be. And I think you get inspiration from all that, but exactly what you said, you take the good bits, but you've got to be true to yourself, haven't you? Otherwise, it's just people see through that.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And and I and I remember the first the first time many years ago, I started to um get involved in in um business meetings and or or meetings, even when we'll talk about my my early career sort of in in the police, and I was I was having meetings with in the police people of a higher rank than me, or I was starting to have business meetings with people from C-suite or or senior management. And yeah, it suddenly dawned on me that actually these every we're all just human beings, and we're all just wanting to succeed in our in our own individual careers and as a team as well. And it's it's not when you get to a senior management, management position, you're you're suddenly part of this um must do this, must do that, or it we're all we're all going on a journey. Yeah. And it was that it was that reality of actually we're all we're all just wanting to achieve success here. Um it's it it's not that there's uh there's an elitist side out there, it's let's let's collectively achieve success and and collaborate. And and that that's a big part for me as well, is that collaboration.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, yeah, which I think actually is very good advice for because I think one that it's a very tricky job, management's hard, but actually I think managing managers is very hard because you you have to I think that's when that that being authentic is is important because it's very difficult not to teach someone

Managing Managers Without Making Clones

SPEAKER_01 6:52

to manage in a way that you manage, and that's that's very challenging, isn't it? Or or the way you you have been managed. That's a real difficult process, but that's when that authenticity comes in strongly, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Oh, it it does. And and uh when I when I first started, probably when I first started managing people, um I I probably was the oh hang on, I I expect everyone to manage the same way that I do. And then it's like, no, that's that's not what I it's not what I want. And actually, it's will will their way it does it work, does it give a different perspective? And nine times out of ten, it's like, absolutely, it's not necessarily the way I would have done something or the way I would have worded something, but actually that's a different that's a different way of doing it. Actually, it works really well. And let people carve their own um their their own way of doing it whilst whilst kind of going along with the guidance that I'm looking for or the expectations that I'm setting. And I think as long as it's setting you what what am I what am I expecting and how are we going to get there, the intricate detail, well, let's carve our own journey as to to how we do it. And and that now works really well. And I look back probably you know 15 plus years ago, and I think, well, the the Tim from 15 years ago did things very differently to the to the Tim now. But um you where where I'm going and how I how I lead the the teams that we've we've got at ITS is is very different to that first part of the journey that I did. Um, and probably if I fast forward 10 years, I don't really want to fast forward, but if I get if we go forward 10 years, I'll I'll grow and develop as well over over that period, but it's by what I take from the people that I'm surrounding myself with.

The MBA That Actually Helps

SPEAKER_01 8:37

If you linger with the MBA, how um was was it or wasn't a almost a juxtaposition? Do it having that in mind with having a blank canvas and and being to yourself versus an MBA, which is obviously very academic, and and I've never done MBA, but I but I imagine they teach you this is a way you do things. And how did that how did that work, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

I I was really lucky, uh, I think with with my MBA, that I I chose a university um that that gave more of a practical emphasis on the MBA rather than a than a uh theoretical um side. And that that helped in my learning style and the way that I that I operate, but it it tied in that pretty much every module that I was doing, whether it was business strategy, marketing, project management, that side, fitted in with the role that I was doing uh at the company I was working for at the time. Um and I could apply those that that practical level. And it was it was very much uh the real world is is practical based. We're not yes, there's umpteen books, and you can see some of the books on the bookshelf behind me, but reading a reading a 250-page manual on business strategy is one thing, applying it is a is a very different thing. And and I think I've what what I've taken from some of the books that I've I've read, the real theoretical academic ones, I find really difficult to read. There's some there's some good stuff in it, and I'll pick out you know a few pages here and there. Um, but some of the other books, like the the anecdotals of good to great, that type of book, yeah, um, I I can relate to and I can take from it a lot. And some of it is yeah, good to great being one that I that I do really like, and talking about getting the right people on the bus at the right times, and but but the journey changes for people as well. And and I've had it where the journey's changed for me at times. Um, and you you pivot, you get off one bus, you go on another bus, and uh you you then carve that that next route. But um the the MBA, uh yes, I've I've I think I was really lucky. Plus, I started my MBA in 2020, and and after the first three months of doing it, we pivoted to an online course.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I've had yeah pandemic hit.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

And and so it changed it changed some of the perspectives of it, but it was very it was still very practical based. Um, and that just suited me. And I think that set me up really well for for uh where I am now.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

It's interesting. So I think a lot of people, maybe O and R, if they have the opportunity by the business through the MBA, and and some people don't do it because they probably think it's too theoretical based. It's not actually going to help them, but but but the the it did help you, would you say it's helped you really?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Massively helped me. Um massively helped me get just an appreciation for a whole whole raft of um areas of the business from the the kind of intricacies of some of the financial management, the the HR side, sort of going into more detail of of what would happen. I mean, it's it's a I was gonna say light touch, it's not really a light touch, it's a it's a fairly detailed touch on 14, 15 areas that that really help you um I guess run a business. But um the practical element for me for the one I did, uh if it had been really academic, I don't think I'd have I wouldn't have enjoyed it. But because it was it was practical and all of the assessments, the coursework were based on what I was doing at at work. And so I could I could take uh I I was getting real world experience out of it

From Policing To Systems Integration

SPEAKER_00 12:05

at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah, so how very briefly, how how did you get into engineering? What was the uh was it was it always the goal? Was it you fell into? What was the route?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Uh well was it always was it always the goal? Um I suppose when I when I was when I was 18, um, which is now longer ago than than I thought it was, uh I I did the usual did my GCSEs. I was living down on the south coast um at the at the time, did GCSEs, did my A levels, wanted to go off to university to do computer science, um, and went to university, but I dropped out after the first two and a half months because I I I just wasn't ready. It wasn't for me. I wasn't I I don't know what it was, but it was just I I don't want to be here, don't want to be at university, and and ended up going and uh working for John Lewis for a um uh a year or so uh in the audio and TV department in Southampton. Um still had a real interest in in computing. I'd worked at a sort of a high street computer shop at the time, and uh it was nothing to do with kind of business computing, but it was I was build building PCs at the time when you could still properly properly build them and uh and um weren't weren't tied into sort of pre pre-made uh computers. But um when I was at John Lewis, uh one of the guys that I met there, his dad was an inspector in the in the police. And that then put me on a path of oh well let's let's try going into the into the police. So I went into uh Hampshire Police at the time uh as an operational PC, did a couple of years there, and then for um one reason or another, my uh the the rest of my family, my mum, dad, my sisters, they all moved up to Scotland. So it was a bit of a bit of a move, 650-ish miles from the street. No, no, up to up to Aberdeen. Um can't get much further. You can get much warmer. And uh having now moved to Teeside, the the extra sort of four or five degrees certainly makes a makes a difference. But yeah, moved I I moved up to uh Aberdeen, joined joined the police up there and did another or nine, ten years up there, so about 12 years in total in the in the police, various various roles there, from uh the control room to uh police motorcyclist. I got to be a police motorcyclist during the Olympic torch relay and that that type of stuff. And just what what what a world of experiences I got in the time um in the time there. And I think that really helped me on my leadership journey as well, uh, through all of the work that I was I was doing there. Um, but in 2013, I think it was, I I got approached by um principal engineer who worked at a local um systems integrator in Aberdeen, who I'd put my CV out online, wasn't actively um looking for anything, but said, Do you want to come and try to come and join us? He um he liked the look of sort of my my background, what I'd done. Um I had no idea at that point what sort of industrial IT, systems integration, that sort of things was. Um, but my my youngest daughter was three months old at the time. I I was it was a it was a good time in the sense of I wanted to get away from working shift, so I wanted to be able to spend a bit more time with the family and look at what a long-term career kind of might be. So um moved moved into systems integration there, where I was working, um it was digital operations, real-time data, sort of engineering on the sort of IT side, um, and very quickly then moved into uh managing and overseeing uh support services. The support services were for everything from the digital operations but through to control safety systems in oil and gas. Um, and then I branched out a bit into um the support services within nuclear, within water, um, within other energy um side of things. And that started to spark an interest in the the wider um engineering sense. And then I I um uh started running the the Aberdeen and the Glasgow office for the company that I was working for at the time. Um and that then exposed me more into the the business management of um uh of the systems integration there uh and really got quite a good good level of knowledge within the that that um business. Then in 2020, I um pivoted slightly and went and worked for a global IT managed services company. Um and then um last year uh came and joined uh came and joined the ITS team um to to take on the role operations director and moving forward in the the engineering side that we're doing here. And the this has really uh sparked an interest that what ITS does is similar to what I've done in the past within energy, within nuclear and that side, but it's also now within life sciences, medical devices, pharmaceutical. And um that's a that's a new world um to me, but a very, very interesting, very interesting world. Um so I think it to answer your question, how has sort of engineering always been there? I think yes, engineering of one sense or another has always been there, more initially on the the IT side of what engineer would bring. Um and if I knew what I know now and could shape my path slightly differently, uh knowing that um systems integration exists and all that sort of things, maybe I would have would have shaped my path slightly different, slightly differently um back back when I was a young 18-year-old. But I probably wouldn't be where I am today if I if I had. And and um yeah, what I you know, my my my nephews who are all in in their 20s are kind of trying to um identify where they want to be in their careers, and they look at me and think, well, it's okay, you don't have to get it right first time. There are uh other options, and I think that's what I what I say to them is if you can find a career that that suits you right from the start, brilliant, but also don't worry if you don't get it right because everything's transferable as well. And I um I I look back and I think all of the skills I got in the police and previous careers as well, they've been hugely transferable. They might not just be black and white on paper that you can see how transferable they are, but everything is experience and everything makes you into that authentic person that you are today.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

100%. I'm so busy said that because when you were talking about your career, it's exactly what I was thinking that in terms of you know, it's it's never I'm not saying you're at the last stage of your career, but it's never too late in your career to make a to make a change because everything you're doing now is is transferable, you know, and and a place is a really good example, isn't it, where the different situations you've had to deal with on a on a daily basis that you probably wouldn't realise how you know how how useful they are in everyday life and every every every different industry can think of it is can be. I was um I was actually thinking this other day, I was driving in, and the amount makes me sad the amount of people who hate the job, hate the job and live for Friday and and then and then that they repeat it again. And and uh it does, it's difficult. And I just think it's not I appreciate not everyone has the same opportunities. That is the that is the case in in this world. However, I just wish more people would go, I'm just gonna take a bit of a risk and change and go to something completely different because just because you've gone down that path doesn't mean you can't go down a completely different one. You're you're absolutely your absolute testament that it's uh 100%.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

And I look back, and I said this to my wife recently. I said, You where where did it seem sensible back in 2013 to um leave you federally worked quite a secure job within the police? Um took quite a substantial pay cut to start again. Um, we had a three-month-old. Um, my wife was on maternity leave. Where where did that seem sensible? Yeah, but but at no point do I remember us talking about it, thinking, oh, this is a bit of a gamble. It was just this is right, let's do it. Yeah, and um and and so there's a there is that you what I would say to people is sometimes just go for it.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah, you can't time the bit the big decisions, things that happen to you, you can't time. There's never a perfect time, and if you wait for the perfect time, it it simply won't come around. So we start I start this business the two weeks after my firstborn was born. We had I had a we had a brand new house, the wife of attorney leave, we had no money coming in at all, and it was the worst timing. If I'd planned it, I would never have planned it, but it was an opportunity I couldn't, you know, I couldn't let up. So it is, it's uh sometimes you just gotta back yourself and think, what's the worst case scenario? I get another job if this one doesn't work out. That's that's the that's the reality.

Taking Risks And Changing Careers

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Um 100%. What what's the difference?

Teesside Community And Business Culture

SPEAKER_01 20:36

You're in the northeast now, you're in Teaside, and Teaside is um is a great place with a very deep community. Have you felt the difference of work in the Northeast versus someone else? What are the key differences you've noticed?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Oh it's it's unbelievable that the difference, and I would say both working and living in the Northeast is a very different, positive experience. You we we thought we were quite well settled in in Aberdeenshire for what have I been there, 22 years. I think my wife had been there about 30 years. Um personally coming down here from the moment I was I was looking to relocate, the friendliness of the people and just the openness is just brilliant. And and I'm not saying that people in Aberdeen aren't friendly, of course they are. It's just different. And it's it's just a I and I can't really describe it other than it just we've settled in so quickly that people feel uh just brilliant to be around. And then from a business side, yeah, the the Northeast, the Northeast is is growing is and has gone through a lot of challenges over the last probably 20, 30 years, and and then there are still plenty of challenges here. But the business community seems to champion each other and they seem to want to be there to help each other. And I whether I just didn't see this in Aberdeen, that's that's possible, but I just didn't feel that that was there in in Aberdeen with the the different companies that. you're you're working with if there's a lot of individual companies rather than people trying to champion for each other and you since since I've been since I've been here I've kind of immersed myself into things like the Tease Valley Business Club and the the community that comes around through that is is fantastic. And I'd say I've made friends through that in such a short time. I've I've had really good exposure to to some of the other businesses that are here. We've had business opportunities between different companies. And that's in nine months of that that I've been here and I it's like well let's let's see what let's see what the next two three four five years bring. But it it just feels already that I could pick up the phone to some of the other companies that I that I've worked with. And I'd say even even some people who've who've been on the podcast with you that I've met once or twice I I feel comfortable that I could pick up the phone to them and they'd want to help if I had a had a question or something even though I don't really know them particularly well.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

I I wouldn't think community feel isn't it yes it's it's brilliant it's it's absolutely brilliant and I I don't know I don't know why but it just it's different yeah no I agree I'm I'm I'm I'm Yorkshire born and bred but even I can tell the difference I've been paying for 22 years and there is a key difference 100%.

Theo James Recruitment Message

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Apologies for interrupting this episode with a very quick announcement about my business. Theo James are a specialist talent provider specifically to the manufacturing and engineering sector. I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved since our inception in 2015. We specialise in roles from semi-skilled trades right the way up to our TJ Exec search arm of the business both on the contract and permit side we offer both bespoke one-off campaigns for heart of full roles or a full partnership service where we've become an extension of your business. For any information please get in touch with me or the team I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode.

What ITS Does In Plain Terms

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Thank you I'd I'd like to um you know to to talk a bit about ITS and actually what what you do as a business but actually what I'm always big fan of on episodes like this where you know you work for a business which goes in and helps businesses in this region out and then in this industry out just to learn about that and maybe something people can learn this episode. So if someone was to ask you to say look what what in layman terms is does ITS do what could it do for my engineering business for example and you know if you were to work with a company for 90 days what what would that look like you think oh that's a that's an interesting one um so what what could we do?

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I I suppose in in layman's terms and I and I tried to describe to my my mum and dad recently what it is that that's that's always the best way to do it and and it's I I find the systems integration is quite uh easy but difficult at the same time to describe what we do and um yeah is it yeah yes yeah and it and it's a bit like well what what can we do? Well we yeah for for us we work across uh many many sectors and I think that's a that's a positive for ITS in that we um we we've not got all of our eggs in one basket and we also can bring a broad range of experience from one sector to another so it's it's predominantly highly regulated sectors that we're working so different pharmaceuticals nuclear energy various different and and they have different levels of um different levels of regulation within within them um but what what do we do well we take we take lots of different say types of machines make them work together for whatever the solution is that the the customer needs um that we automate solutions so it's it's sometimes looking at process efficiency so is there something that just takes an awful long time that actually if we could find a way to automate it that could save you a month two months three months and and get your production line up and running quicker well potentially that could not only save your time but it could get you up and running and generating revenue quicker. And we use various different systems we're we're kind of vendor agnostic so we're we're not tied to any particular any particular vendor. We've got partnerships with a with quite an enviable number of of uh OEMs and and suppliers but we're not we provide the right solution for the right the right project and and don't don't tie it in um and we've got we've got quite a variety of expertise as well in that we can provide end to where it's unique for for ITS that that I think I haven't seen before is if I take the life sciences pharmaceutical sector we can provide everything from the project engineering uh resources and and delivery of that project through to also validating and testing that system without we we have all of those skills in house so what what could we do for some of the customers well we're we're kind of a um I don't say like the term but a one-stop shop in that you you you can come to us for everything without thinking I need to go to I need to go to supplier one for this part supplier two for this part supplier three for this part we we can provide the whole end-to-end project and then go into our support services as well and and um support is a big part of my background that that I had at a previous company and come into ITS we've got probably in excess of about 60 to 65 customers that we're providing um up to 247 support for uh and the expertise that the the teams have got are are just fantastic and I think the relationship we've got with some of our customers uh we've we've worked we've worked with a number of them for more than 30 years and they keep coming back we keep providing a good service um and and I think the testament to the quality engineering we do is the fact that we've we've got these longstanding um arrangements I think the biggest challenges that a lot of the your customers are having right now is there a common theme that you're seeing what do you say getting I think one of the things that we're we're seeing particularly in the within manufacturing is um getting that route to production quicker.

Obsolescence And Faster Routes To Production

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Okay yes and obsolescence as well there's a lot of there's a lot of good production lines out there yeah but but they're aging yeah and it's how do you it's it's trying to find that optimum way to to afford the downtime to upgrade whilst maintaining the uptime and so I think planning planning for the certainty that things need to be upgraded and the benefits that come with that upgrade that can that can be additional revenues that are getting generated um whilst allowing for the downtime needed for um for an upgrade and picking the picking the right time and I think what we're seeing with a number of customers is sometimes downtimes are having to shift to the right because they need to keep the production line going. So therefore it's is it a putting off the putting off the upgrade until the point of actually the upgrade is essential but you you don't want to put it off too long until something breaks. Yeah of course so I think it's yeah what what one of the big challenges yeah I think it's making sure that obsolescence is well managed and and dealt with to give that optimization. Is there a misconception that to automate a factory now costs hundreds of thousands of pounds is that is is that a misconception you think where actually it doesn't necessarily need to I think so no I I I think there's I think there's a it it I think quite often it will surprise it surprises our customers how cost effective um an upgrade can be or an automation solution can be um versus the with the gains that can be made from it there is of course a there's a there's an outlay but I think the gains that can come from it can be significant and and you with with that as well we've we've been asked by a number of customers the the the hot topic of the of the time of course is is AI and it's how can how can AI help speed up um speed up some of the the automation or um a big I had a long conversation last week at uh uh an event with the Bank of England and and AI was a hot topic there of are we seeing it um if it would be replace jobs and I think we're I don't think we're seeing it replace jobs I think what we're doing is we're seeing it enhance current jobs maybe enable more to be delivered with the current headcount um and it's it's enabling it's enabling everyone to be more efficient but is it regulatory compliant is it you what what's what's the governance behind it and I think there's there's a couple of things with it that we're seeing is one legislation maybe isn't keeping up as quickly as the AI is is being developed and what do we what do we actually mean when we're

AI In Manufacturing Without The Hype

SPEAKER_00 31:00

talking about we want to use AI for this and there's so many different ways of of looking at it um and then of course you've got you do you have your own agents internal that aren't connected to the internet how does what does that mean? How does that enable um improvements how do you how do you use ai to really then you spearhead forward some software engineering solutions and is it good for proof of concept and then you have a development team that take that proof of concept forward or is it is it good to even help you further on it and I think you you could you would normally say something like this let's see how we are in five years time but I think really with with the a the speed ai is developing it's let's look at the next six months.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah yes yeah absolutely yeah and it's interesting because I think people tend to bolt on AI and automation as though they're the same thing don't they this sort of conversation and and they are obviously very different. The only caveat that would be is I think people probably and you'll know more than me but my my thoughts are that and I'll put myself in this pocket that that people try to automate or use AI because they feel they have to but probably don't understand what the problem is they're trying to fix sometimes. Do you do you find that when you're telling people people feel the need to but actually don't understand what the what they're trying to do in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Why yeah and it's it's what what are you trying to achieve and some sometimes it's as simple as I don't know but everyone's using it so we should be using left behind. Yeah yes yes yeah and and I think getting the getting the use case right is is is so critical um but there's so many different use cases depending on the type of um ai system that that wants to be used and we've got we've got some we're starting to use at the moment that is um sort of inspection cameras that um historically you'd you'd program significantly in the background for the parameters they're looking for now they're coming with ai built in and they they learn for themselves what what they're seeing and it's well how how do you then test something that learns for itself and make sure that it's it's it meets all regulation right regulation compliance and that's then opening well it's the right way to go but how do we ensure it is compliant are you worried or excited by it because I I guess as I listen I've stopped listening to to little podcasts where the where they scaremonger on this type of stuff because I just think it's just I feel like it's sensationalized.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

So where are you on the on the scared versus excited what ai might do for the industries we work in would you say I'm I'm hugely excited by it.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah I I I see and and this came up last week actually it's we're we're on the cusp of you you kind of make make a choice at the moment you either embrace it or you're maybe left behind. But I think the embracing it is embracing it in the way that will make the right um difference to your business. And and I don't think yet we know exactly what does it mean to embrace it because it's it's evolving so quickly and and um but I think I think the excitement for me is well let's try and embrace it and and see what that what that evolves to be. And I and I look at if if I think about my kids for a second here the the jobs that they might do in 10 15 20 years time maybe don't even exist now. Yeah um and and I I look my my um oldest daughter's 13 just doing a few exams and stuff at the moment through school first thing she's doing is downloading a a AI chatbot to help her with the with the exam as well is that the right way to go is it not is it and and but it's out there it's in it's right in front of them and and you is it is it the way of helping I I don't know but it she's embracing it and and is it's doing well I I look at I look at some of the some things our engineers are looking at and we're we have potential where we're trialing the the use of ai to help us with authoring certain technical documents to see what it what it would produce. Then we're spending the engineering time from our engineers reviewing those documents but what happens in five years' time 10 years time right now we've got people who are experienced haven't written these documents themselves before um and so they are yeah they're suitably experienced to be able to review what is output to say whether it's valid or not. But in 10 years time if you've got engineers who have only ever used sort of automated documents have been proved how how were they how are they able to review them um with the suitable experience? But is it going to be a problem in 10 years time?

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Because actually it might be good enough that you feel you can trust it.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

And I think that's the that's the journey that we're all going on is you you can't you can't foresee probably can't even foresee how it will be used in five years time. Because it's evolving so quickly I think let's let's embrace it and see where we go with it.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah I agree I agree and and it and it it will replace certain jobs but it will mean that if like you just said there the different jobs are available it will just change.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Hugely that's it I think I think yeah you're absolutely right I think certain certain jobs will will change new jobs will be created yeah and I think there'll be a massive amount of new jobs that that are created because of it.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yeah 100% I I live in in Sundland and they're they're one of the the first cities to trial the um the just eats um robots flying around the takeaways and we saw some of them and and my wife was like oh so sad isn't it because you just all these people live with drivers and I said well yeah it it it is but actually there's you've also then got engineers they're gonna maintain fix and you know it's just creating different jobs and yes it is sad for those people in industry and it gets back to what we said right at the start that you know that's when people have got to be agile to you like to utilize their skills in different industries because because the world is is going to change. And you you look at you look at Darlington you've got Amazon warehouse in Darlington that's just trialed the um drone deliveries um yeah yes that that might that might replace um or or change the way deliveries are done it won't it won't do away with with road deliveries but you're opening up sort of drone operators programmers for the drones um everything that goes around the engineering side of making making these amazing drones available to deliver your parcels yeah um

How AI Could Change Leadership

SPEAKER_01 37:16

so it it's it just opens up opportunity how do you think um how do you think ai will change leadership because suddenly you've got uh you almost have you don't make as many decisions in in a way it's uh and I'm still in the middle of of this you know you know we do appraisals every month and and we're now starting to bring a lot of AI into that and some of some of it sits well with me some of it thinks I'm I'm I'm a D skill myself it's it's it's a challenge I yes I I honestly don't know no neither do I by the way the bit the bit that I think I I think it will it will enable us through yeah more data driven data availability and it'll let us see the the data quicker of what's going on within a business.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

It'll help us make decisions will it will it influence us I I think it will I think it will hopefully empower us better to to make decisions quicker yeah because something that maybe would take two three four days to generate as a report business case everything you might actually be able to do in a couple of hours. Yeah does it actually let us speed up and therefore grow the business quicker yeah potentially um I I've yeah I I have used I have used various ai tools to help me set sort of appraisal objectives for my team more to give me a starting point and then finesse it myself and that's actually been a really useful tool and has and has meant I can develop my team quicker and better. So I think from that side it it works it's working really well. What does it mean for you tradition traditional leadership of businesses now versus five years time, 10 years time? I honestly don't know.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah it's hard isn't it and and and I and I I agree completely I think um I think most important is exactly what you just said there we we use it to create time so we can do you know higher end tasks. We use it to because actually I think managing with data is is a very good way to manage because you can say you can take the emotion out of it and and make better decisions.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

However I will get back to what we said right at the start of that you still need to use this to still have your authentic approach to it otherwise totally we don't need managers we can just go by the data you still need to have that authentic leadership and and you look at yeah you look at um take take sort of AI meeting notes that happen and and transcripts and things how many times does it does it make a typo or something that that and it's oh you said that no I didn't or that's not what I meant or does yeah that that side of things I think is is useful but has still got a long way to go.

Biggest Leadership Lesson And ITS Growth

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Yeah absolutely couple of closing questions don't mind the um what would you say has been your um within leadership and and you grown as a leader what do you think is one of the biggest lessons you've learned in your career so far would you say I guess it's the old you know for you to give yourself advice now and what what would what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Be open within within the realms that you can be open transparent um with your team because without your team you can't be successful and you need them to you need them to help you be successful so being open and transparent and I'll tell you back to take them on the journey with you uh and and trust them yeah yeah great advice and and what's um obviously you've spoken you've spoken about Its and how how everything's going on there what's exciting you what's going on the next sort of nine to twelve months in the business oh um lots we've we've got some really big projects coming up we've we're on quite a growth journey at the moment which is which is really great to be with new leadership team the that that we've got um I I think we're taking the staff on on the journey in fact even today we we had a town hall with the staff telling them about all the exciting stuff that's coming up um I I think it's it's really for ITS it's it's an organic and an acquisitive growth journey that we're on that is really looking quite good for the next the next few years and it's ambitious um but we're doing bigger projects than we've done before we're working with with existing and new customers we've got a really good bunch of engineers that that work for us um and I think just the whole next nine 12 months plus is yeah it's just an exciting journey for us to be on. Yeah and it it's almost it you know it it almost feels like we've got a bit of a start-up mentality of we want to go for it we want to grow we want to get there but we're a 35 year old established company yeah so that the energy that we've got within the business is just fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

And I think once you've got that you know when you know when you're going through Grow Spurs and you are hiring people see that feel that culture and want to be part of it. Some people and you know you'll you'll you're never to be fine some people who aren't you find that quite early don't you and that that's okay you know when you're going for a change of business that's fine. Some people don't want to be part of change. But ultimately when you bring new people in the business and they they're on board with that it it's it's an exciting time isn't it to do so particularly in a in a in a market which is a bit sticky right now.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

So people want the companies who have that have that foresight and you know you you made a comment earlier on where you say you're people who who uh come to work on a Monday and they're just the their their goal is to get to Friday. Yeah um every day I come to work and it's just a great bunch of people that we're working with it's you you can't you can't predict what's going to happen that day you it's it's like anything you you have your to-do list and it and it yeah you start your to do listing because it yeah but but it's it's such a such an interesting and exciting time and being part of of sectors I've been part of also some new sectors as well brings a brings a new dynamic to it um but it's yeah it just every day I go to work and it's exciting and it and it doesn't it doesn't feel like we're going to work it feels like we're going on um a really interesting journey to grow what we've got as a fantastic business and and see where we go with it and to be to have the opportunity to be part of that and bring the bring the guys at work for me along on that is just awesome.

Final Reflections And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Amazing amazing look thank you so you know this has been real pleasure a real pleasure and actually what's been nice is speaking to someone who's who's so optimistic and positive and and I I don't mean that lightly because not everyone is like that and I think people go for the motions but you are someone who clearly sees the opportunities and situations which are which is a which is a real you talk about leadership that's a real gift and I I've really enjoyed you know what what your business does and what you do is obviously very technical it's a lot of it is it's black and white it's you know it's data led. But actually I really enjoy the fact you've tied that that all nicely into having a vision and being authentic and be an authentic leader and and that because I was like I said right at the start a lot of people listening who are leaders who feel they have to be a certain way they feel they have to be like their managers has been they were managed and what the book says and like exactly what you just said Tim you take all these little things from all the influence you've got but it's got to sit right with you as a leader it's got to feel comfortable 100% yeah and and yeah and I and I think yeah T T side itself as well is is now is home and it's so quickly felt like home that to to get a chance to grow grow a business within tea side is just fantastic. Yeah yeah and it's an amazing place now it always has been but it particularly the last five years it's just this felt like a real movement towards business and and development and that community led which is it it's rare. So excellent well thank you Tim appreciate that what's the best way for people to try and contact you from you PM I'll put your details on there but LinkedIn LinkedIn's the LinkedIn's probably the best way to get hold of me.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah yeah excellent excellent yeah more than happy anyone wants to have a chat grab a coffee or always like to have a have a conversation so um yeah I'd I'd welcome if anyone wants to to get in touch.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Thank you very much. Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast please just like or subscribe it really helps grow the show and obviously improve the industry. If you want any more information about Theo James as I mentioned midway through the episode please get in touch with me or the team I would love to talk about how it can help you directly or your business we are more than just a recruiter and I know people say that but it's something I'm incredibly passionate about. We are in business for much more than just a bums on seats approach. We want to help people grow we want to help improve their lives and ultimately I want to work with businesses and people who share the same values as we do and that's something I'm incredibly passionate about. So please if that is you and you are passionate about that dream role or passionate about your people please get in touch with me or the team I would absolutely love to talk a bit more detail thank you very much speak soon