Dr John Dyben: Integrating Professional Healthcare in Addiction Treatment

Tune into this episode of the Party Wreckers podcast, where we promise you'll gain invaluable insights into the multifaceted world of interventionist training. We're giving you an exclusive preview of our upcoming event in Birmingham, Alabama, and sharing practical tips on blending various intervention models to cater to unique family dynamics. Plus, we dive into the importance of social media and personal branding to help you expand your practice. With our own experiences spotlighting the challenges faced by new interventionists, this episode sets the stage for a toolkit full of knowledge and expertise. 

We also sit down with Dr. John Dyben from the Hanley Recovery Center to discuss the pivotal intersection of addiction treatment and mental health care. Discover why a solely 12-step immersion program might not be enough and the necessity of integrating professional healthcare providers, especially for complex cases. We underline the ethical obligation of treatment centers to continually improve through research and patient feedback, advocating for a balanced approach that addresses medical, psychological, and spiritual needs. This conversation is a clarion call for a more holistic healing journey.

Lastly, we explore the transformative power of spirituality in recovery. Understand how healthy spirituality can reconnect and celebrate life, whereas unhealthy practices lead to disconnection. The 12 steps are revealed as a powerful method for fostering spiritual health, and we discuss maintaining spiritual fitness and recognizing signs of spiritual unhealthiness. This episode not only offers profound insights into the spiritual aspect of recovery but also provides resources for those seeking further guidance and support. Join us for a rich discussion that promises to enlighten and empower your journey in the field of intervention.

Chapters

• 0:03 Interventionist Training and Expert Insights
• 14:14 Spirituality in Addiction Treatment
• 22:20 Reconnecting Through Healthy Spirituality
• 30:38 Treatment Programs and Spiritual Awakening

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by professional interventionists Matt Brown and Sam Davis. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism and are reluctant to get the help that they need. We hope to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stay with us and we'll get you through it. Please welcome the party wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Welcome back everybody. You're in for a treat today because you're actually getting take two of our process here. We started out here and we were like seven, eight minutes into recording this episode and I realized that I hadn't hit record yet. So we've had a little bit of practice on this first run. Before we get into our second take of the interview with Dr John Diben Sam, let's talk a little bit about our training coming up in Birmingham, alabama, on October 12th and 13th. What can people expect to get out of this training if they decide to join us?

Speaker 3: 1:12

Whether they're a new interventionist or they're an established interventionist. You're going to have a lot of helpful information given to you. It is exciting, it is not boring at all. It's not like reading tax laws. We are going to go over the different models of intervention, how to blend those models and let the family and the way the family comes together through the entire intervention process, let the which model do you use? Unfold. I see so many interventionists. They say, well, I only use this model, I only use that model, and I think that you're selling yourself a little bit short by doing so. So our model is hey, which model does this family need? So we're going to educate you on all models, how to blend them, how to let them evolve.

Speaker 3: 1:59

We're going to really get into and you won't get this at any other training is how to brand yourself effectively on social media as a private practice interventionist. Social media is where it's at. It's the holy grail of marketing yourself. Is video content, social media content. It's absolutely free to put up videos to get eyeballs on yourself. Establish a personal brand. We're going to get into that. We're going to get into how do we expand our income funnel as interventionists. Help you broaden that, and it's just going to be a good time. It's going to be a good time.

Speaker 2: 2:38

Yeah, and as we've done three trainings up until now, I think that's the one piece that we have been missing in our first three trainings is really talking more about that, because so many people will come through the training and, as we do, some of the mentorship and supervision afterwards. Most of the questions that I've been hearing is okay, now what? How do I actually start working? It doesn't matter how good we are as interventionists. If nobody knows what we're doing and how we do it or who we can help, then we're not going to be effective, and so I think that's a really key piece of the training that they're going to get from us.

Speaker 3: 3:12

Most definitely. It's critical. I think I mean I got trained and I know you did as well. I came home, hung up my shingle, said hey, I'm an interventionist now and had my little laptop and it was silence. Now and have my little laptop and it was silence, phones weren't ringing. I'm like now, what do I do? So I took some licks through the years. We both have taken licks through the years on how to brand ourself, how to market ourself, how to get our message out there. So we want to pass along this information to you to save you the licks that we had to take.

Speaker 2: 3:42

There's been times where I've called my own 800 number on my website just to make sure it was still working, like what's going on? Why is the phone not ringing? So yeah, I hope this will help everybody who wants to come in and join us. So if you want to join us, it's $1,000. It's October 12th and 13th. We would love to see you there and hope that you'll join us.

Speaker 2: 4:05

As we get into our interview today we have Dr John Diben and I want to read his bio from the Hanley Center because, as far as people who have had letters behind their names, john may be the most qualified person that we've had yet on the podcast when it comes to education and I don't want to miss any of his accomplishments here. So let's go here. It says John is the chief research of innovation at the Hanley Recovery Center in Florida. John provides support to treatment leadership through research and consultation. John continually builds upon his academic expertise through research and nationwide speaking engagements on health science, spirituality, clinical ethics and related topics.

Speaker 2: 4:49

John's academic training includes a Bachelor of Science in Psychology, a Master of Arts in Conflict Management, a Master of Science in Management, a Doctor of Health Science and postgraduate studies in psychology, philosophy and religion. John is a Master Certified Addictions Professional and a a certified mental health professional in the state of Florida. He is an internationally certified alcohol and drug counselor and a substance abuse professional, meeting all federal DOT qualifications. John is a musician, writer and a private pilot. He enjoys spending time with his family. John, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 4: 5:24

Thank you both for having me.

Speaker 2: 5:25

I appreciate it, John welcome to the podcast, thank you both for having me.

Speaker 4: 5:27

I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:28

Glad to have you. The Hanley Center has been around for a while. It's gone through some changes, even recently. Talk to us a little bit about where it started and how it evolved to what it is today. Sure.

Speaker 4: 5:43

You know, it really all started with Jack and Mary Jane Hanley and it's a kind of a beautiful love story. They fell in love in college and Jack. Eventually after school they got married and he became the CEO of Monsanto and said that they put Jack in a very you know, this high executive position and Mary Jane would do a lot of entertaining and she's kind of shy, and so what she realized, you know, at some point is if she knocked a few drinks back, that she would make a better hostess, is how she puts it. What she didn't know is she had the predisposition for the disease of alcoholism and she developed full blown alcoholism. It almost destroyed their family. But again, lots of long stories. But she got treatment and she really found recovery. She had that spiritual experience, that awakening, and really found something that changed her life, changed her family's life.

Speaker 4: 6:35

They started a foundation, the Hanley Family Foundation, that was really dedicated to helping further the cause, helping people better understand what addiction is, how to prevent it and also how to treat it. So she became good friends with our former first lady, betty Ford, who had been through this herself and and eventually she's had a house down here, and they decided, you know we really want to have a place, uh, in Florida that treats people with dignity, that helps people get healing from addiction and uh, but helps them in a way that says you are are worth, that, that you have worth and value. So at the time this is going back to the late 70s, early 80s Hazelden was kind of the. They had the model.

Speaker 4: 7:37

So Hanley got with Hazelden and they created this place down here in West Palm Beach, florida called Hanley Hazelden at St Mary's because it's on the campus of a hospital, and over the years the key that has been kind of through this whole no matter, through all of its changes. Mrs Hanley believed that everything from the flowers to the environment, to the carpet, to the way people talk to you, everything here should speak to the dignity of everyone on this campus. And so to this day you know, I guess I've been here 20 years there have been wild changes over the years, but one thing that we've been able to I've been able to see is consistent is that this is a place that treats people not just with scientific evidence and excellence and treatment excellence, but that really speaks to the dignity of every person.

Speaker 3: 8:38

John, let me ask you you said that the predisposition early on. What is that to you? Can you explain that? Families hear this all the time, Like, like. What does that mean? Absolutely?

Speaker 4: 8:52

So I'm. I'm the son of two military officers. My mom was. My mom is the toughest person to ever walk on the planet, not the toughest woman, she's the toughest person to ever walk on the planet. My father was a fighter pilot and so I, you know, in my family, type two diabetes on both sides of my family, uh, runs just, it's both. You know, my parents, grandparents, both sits of grandparents, and aunts and uncles.

Speaker 4: 9:14

So we know something about diabetes. We know that diabetes there is a higher likelihood of developing diabetes if you have it in your family history. What does that mean? It means that the predisposition, the likelihood that you will develop a specific condition is in your genes, is passed down genetically. Now, it doesn't mean that you're absolutely going to develop it.

Speaker 4: 9:40

So my mom in her 60s she doesn't take care of herself super well. In her civilian career she's an educator and a social worker. They're real good at taking care of others but not themselves and she develops type 2 diabetes. She goes to the doctor. The doctor said the VA says you got diabetes. But you know what Good news If you take care, if you exercise, change your diet et cetera, you might be able to manage this without having to go on medication and such my mom goes back six months later she hasn't taken care of herself. It's getting worse, and here's what the doctor said to her. She said, mrs Diven, this in your genes is a higher likelihood that you will develop diabetes. And you know what. That's not your fault, that's not your responsibility. And you know what. That's not your fault. That's not your responsibility. You couldn't control that. Now, however, you have this disease and you do have some responsibility, and so what the doctor said is you're not responsible.

Speaker 4: 11:11

Similarity with a lot of other diseases. We know that, and it starts with twin drank and used the same amount, and he just stopped and he's fine. So I should be able to just stop too, but I can't. And that's not about a person being morally weak, it's not about a person being. It's about a person having a disease, and and it's it gets.

Speaker 4: 11:39

You know, when I talk about this, I talk about the dual messages. We know that people are genetically more likely to develop addiction, that there's a genetic component to it. We obviously know that there's. Also, if you never put a drug or a drink in your body, that switch would not be turned on. But the reality is we also live in an environment where putting things into our bodies is the vast majority of what we do here in this country. So when I talk about the predisposition, addiction by definition has a genetic component, a psychosocial component and a psychological, emotional and behavioral component, so it's not one super simple thing. I loved hearing you talk about your training. That's coming up. And then what I loved hearing you say is we actually talk to families about what kind of intervention is going to work best for them, because it's not one simple thing and addiction as a health condition is very much like that one simple thing, and addiction as a health condition is very much like that.

Speaker 2: 12:59

So, as you talk about the developing strategies, you know very few if you guys may be even the only one that I know of where you actually have a position as the director of innovation and research. There aren't very many programs that look at this from a research standpoint or an innovation standpoint. This is an area, an industry, that I don't want to say it hasn't evolved, but if you go back 30, 40 years into treatment, much of what you'll see there is what we're doing today and it does work. Don't get me wrong. When you look at it from a spiritual perspective, from a 12-step perspective, that's tried and true. But in your role as innovation and research director, what does that entail and what does that bring into the treatment process that you guys do that maybe other people might be missing?

Speaker 4: 13:44

Well, man, I love that question and I think it's a really important because this talks to our. For me, it talks to our morals and our ethics and what we owe people. So I actually give a lecture to patients called Mixed Messages, Because I'm very aware of the fact that you know we talk about this as a disease of the brain and we also talk about this as a spiritual condition, and so you know what is it? And the answer is yes, um, it's. It's funny.

Speaker 4: 14:14

I was talking to a guy named chris raymer years ago. He's a good friend of mine and and uh, chris chris was talking about uh, he said, you know, we tried uh to. We decided we were just gonna have a 12-step like only a 12-step immersion program and nothing else and no therapists and no doctors and no anything, which sounds kind of cool. And he said it was really cool till we got our first patient with an active manic episode, with bipolar disorder, right. And then we realized, okay, so there might be more things going on with some people. There might be more things going on with some people.

Speaker 4: 14:50

So, when it comes to, at the end of the day, for many people, many people get clean, get sober and they never go to treatment. Many people go to AA, they go to NA and God bless them. For many, many, many treatment is a critical life-saving and not just life like physical life. But you know what I'm talking about. I mean, like I get not only do I get my physical life back, I get my relationships back, I get my self-worth back, I mean. And so for those people, we understand that mental illness of and addiction, that these are conditions that have changed the brain, they are impacting an organ. So our my responsibility as a healthcare provider and that's make no mistake. If I'm working in a treatment center and I am accepting insurance or I taking money for your health care, I am a health care provider and I actually would say, Matt, that the addiction treatment and I'm putting pointing at me too, and we have done a poor job. We have not held ourselves to the same standards as other health care. So you know, any other health care, we expect that they are constantly researching and they're never saying you know, good enough is good enough. They're researching, they're, you know, learning about the condition, they're improving treatments, they're doing those things. And there are some places that are doing some research and such, but for the most part, you're right, it's not happening. So I'm just, I'm really blessed. I happen to be at a place where especially you know, just even just the past year we have the center, which is the treatment arm, has reconnected with the foundation, and that's when research has really been kind of ramped up.

Speaker 4: 17:05

I say is really true, because I believe that people get their lives back and they get a life back that's more than they ever imagined. That kids get their parents back, that parents get their kids back. These are huge, huge things, and so that's a big responsibility on us to say how do we do it the best way? So one of the things that we've done and our philosophy is also not only how do we do it the best way, but then how do we give that information away. So I'm very, like I said, blessed where our CEO is also a person who believes in this, and our foundation believes in this, and Mrs Hanley believes in this, and so we actively have a department that is researching, and what we're researching is we're looking at our outcomes, we're looking at what works and what doesn't, and we're getting the patient's perspective, family members' perspective, and we're getting the patient's perspective, family members' perspective. We're also doing specific research projects to say how can we improve the relationship, for example, between patient and therapist, and how much does that matter, Are we?

Speaker 4: 18:25

One of the things that we're working on right now is an assessment that will help us understand. One of the things that SAMHSA the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration, has said is that trauma-informed care is going to improve outcomes, that most patients who are coming into treatment have experienced some sort of trauma and addressing that in a healthy way is going to help them get better. But do you know that there is not an assessment that asks patients whether or not that's being effective for them? So we're creating it.

Speaker 4: 19:01

I could go on and on and on, but the bottom line is that if what we are doing is health care, then we have an obligation, ethically and morally, to hold ourselves to the same standard as anyone treating any other disease, whether it's cancer or diabetes. We need to be at, you know, holding ourselves to the same standard. I'll tell you that. You know they say really messed up. People either go into ministry or psychology, and I did both. So my dual diagnosis is I'm both clergy and clinician. So when I get up on a soapbox or start sound like I'm preaching, just you know, forgive me.

Speaker 2: 19:43

While you're focusing on outcomes and you're doing assessments and you're looking at those relationships between clinicians and patients, my belief is that addiction is a medical disease with a spiritual solution. And how do the two coexist in the same space? When you're looking at this from a fact space and an evidence-based perspective, so many of us come into treatment and the idea of the 12 steps. For me, I hated the idea of the 12 steps. I had no experience with them, but I knew two things. I knew they believed they had a disease and I knew they had to believe in God and I wanted nothing to do with either one of those concepts. And how? How do? Let me, let me, figure out how to ask this question. Why is spirituality so important in the recovery process?

Speaker 4: 20:34

it's a great question. So, first of all, I fundamentally believe that that it's not just for the recovery process, that it is life and death for the recovery process, but but that that, even though that every single one of us uh, whether are we're afflicted with chemical dependency or addiction or other mental health conditions or anything else, or not, every one of us has a need for a healthy spirituality. And, first of all, how we deal with that is we put some definitions around it. You know, people walk in the door with all sorts of preconceived notions and ideas, and so one of the things is providing a space for people to say what their ideas are, to say those things Like I don't want anything to do with that God stuff. Or sometimes even harder is when people say, oh, it's about God, oh, great, all I need to do is pray and go to church a little more, and now I'm going to be great, so I don't need your intervention, right? So, either way, and so what we do is we step back and we define spirituality and, in essence, the way we define spirituality is spirituality is most simply defined as my way of life. And so, stepping back a little more, what does that mean? First of all, the reason that's so important is because if spirituality is simply about my way of life, then I'm no longer talking about if I'm going to heaven or hell or Sheol or Valhalla, or whether God is happy with me or mad at me.

Speaker 4: 22:20

Is my spirituality one that is healthy or one that's unhealthy, that we we expand the definition a little bit and we say spirituality is my way of life, reflected in my thinking, my speaking, my actions and here's the kicker in the quality of my relationships with other people, with myself and with all of life, including that which is transcendent for some, some people that's going to, for some people that's going to mean God, for some people that's going to mean nature or something, and they'll move in that direction. But that definition is a game changer and we spend a lot of time. So I've just given you you know it's an hour-long time, you know group with patients where we go through that definition, group with patients where we go through that definition. But spirituality, we define it as my way of life, reflected in my thinking, speaking, actions and in the quality of my relationships with others, with self and with all of life. And here's what we say Healthy spirituality is one that is connected to life, one that celebrates life. Unhealthy spirituality is one that is disconnected from life, one that denigrates life. And so what we mean when we say so, how can addiction, how can you have a physical disease with a spiritual solution? Here's why Because what this physical disease does is it disconnects you from life, which results in an unhealthy spiritual condition. And so it's not simply about getting your brain cleared of a drug, it's also about moving towards reconnecting with life, so that I can have that spiritual awakening.

Speaker 4: 24:15

And when we talk about the 12 steps, I encourage people to just sit and look at 12 steps for a minute, and what I suggest is every one of them is a recipe for how to move from disconnected to connected. So that very first, you know, we admitted. What does we admitted mean? Well, it means that I've been in denial. Well, what's denial? Is it being stupid? You know we?

Speaker 4: 24:39

You know people will say I was just. I can't believe how dumb I was. I don't know man, I do not treat a lot of stupid people. I don't treat a lot of evil people I don't treat. I treat people who are smart. So what is it? What it means is, if I've been, I need to admit because I've been disconnected. Everybody around me is telling me you got to get help, you're hurting, and I can't hear it, not because I'm dumb, because I'm disconnected. And then, if you go through and go into the fourth step, I'm learning about reconnecting to myself and in the fifth step I'm connecting to others. Every one of it is a it's like a recipe for how to go from a life that has become can really get into that. That. That transcends. It transcends drug of choice. It transcends disease condition. It transcends what your religion or what it, because everyone can relate to being disconnected and that need to move towards connected and that need to move towards connected.

Speaker 3: 25:56

I look at it as we've got an internal constitution and when everything's lining up, boy, it's glowing. It's glowing like it's cranked up. You can hear the hum of it. Nothing on the street bothers me. People don't bother you. I'm not taking things personally. My house is in order. No, I'm awake, as the Four Agreements says. I'm walking around asleep, dreaming. I'm awake, but I'm awake like I'm awakened, and I have kids too. So I remember SpongeBob SquarePants when Patrick had the orb of confusion. It was a little ball. When you hit the switch, everything got blurry and he just kind of zoned out and went to sleep. He started drooling. That's me disconnected, the orb of confusion, and anyone that gets close to me, that really loves me and and is close to me, gets pulled into that orb of confusion, and then they themselves become confused right you know I like the way you said it.

Speaker 3: 26:56

I like your passion around this, john, I really do. You know you're a guy that's that's lavens people up, that like gets people on the edge of their seat going. Tell me more please, john.

Speaker 4: 27:10

Well, I appreciate that I will. You know, I have. I've had enough misery to know that I don't want anymore and and I like I really really want peace in my life, and and and I actually think that most of us that that's the truth, that what we really really want is peace in my life, and and and I actually think that most of us that that's the truth, that what we really really want is peace in our lives, and and the only way that I know how to do it is by by being spiritually healthy. And and I have it's funny you'd say, you know, I, I know what I look like when I'm not spiritually healthy and.

Speaker 4: 27:43

I have to have people around me that that know what I do too, that know what I look like to tell people. You know, if you start hearing me say that everybody's an idiot, that's not about everybody being an idiot, that's about I'm not. I'm not doing my work, I'm not being healthy and I'm not in a spiritually fit place. And I do get excited about it because the gift, the gift of peace, and it's a gift that comes with work, but it is still, to me, a gift, it is something that is. So. I get to not only have it, but I get to see people find it again and again, and again. And man, I just I couldn't be more grateful. So, yeah, I'm definitely a little excitable sometimes.

Speaker 2: 28:45

That's awesome. I'm sure that some of the families that are listening may want to access more of what you've got to say. I know that the Hanley Center has a YouTube channel where you have some videos up. Is there any other place where families can access content where you're speaking and sharing some of the things or elaborating on these things more than you have today?

Speaker 4: 29:07

I think that's probably the best place. They collect them there better than than any place I know.

Speaker 2: 29:13

And what I understand is you guys are about ready to to kick off the Hanley center podcast. Is that right? That's right. When does that start. Do you know?

Speaker 4: 29:22

I think we're looking in September in September to start actually putting them up there, but we had a podcast years ago. I love this format. It's super fun.

Speaker 2: 29:34

For families that do want to look into the Hanley Center for their loved ones. Let's talk just briefly, before we wrap up, about the types of programs that Hanley offers. There's a men's only program, a women's only program. You have an older adults program.

Speaker 4: 29:50

It was the groundbreaking cut one in the United States and, to my knowledge, the first program in the world that's been in place for many years. One of the things that we know is that treatment in general has been built to meet the needs of younger folks and the needs of older adults who are also dealing with addiction. Their needs are different. Their physical and medical needs are different, their social, their psychological needs are different, and even where they're at spiritually is different, and so we have a program that not only puts them together but also has specially trained medical, clinical, spiritual staff that that are really helped to meet the needs of that population.

Speaker 2: 30:38

And one of the things that I've come to really appreciate about the older adults program is that as people get into older adulthood, there are other degenerative brain diseases that start to become more apparent and sometimes it's harder to distinguish between. Is this alcoholism, or is this dementia? Is this Alzheimer's? Is there something else? And you guys do a really excellent job at being able to not only identify those but really develop a treatment plan that treats. I don't want to say that you guys treat dementia and Alzheimer's, but you're certainly able to separate what's what.

Speaker 4: 31:11

And that's the key is being able to different. We'll have a lot of adult children bringing their parents in saying, look, we don't know if this is the beginnings of Alzheimer's or this is, you know, substance induced because dad's been drinking a fifth of Jack and having eight Xanax a day for 40 years. And being able to differentiate that for the family is a critical step. Yeah, so I appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 31:36

And the most recent program offering that you guys have opened is the primary mental health program, where somebody can come to treatment with you guys that doesn't have a chemical dependency or alcohol dependency diagnosis and get treated for primary mental health issues.

Speaker 4: 31:48

Yeah, we would. We found ourselves, you know, years ago not being licensed for that and really again and again and again sending folks to different places and going. Man, they're not getting the kind of care and love that they would if they were here. And so we opened up that primary mental health program. Has been at a waiting list since the day it opened. But but the other exciting things. I mean I'm super excited to tell people that we are opening up a perinatal program and so we have five beds for pregnant moms. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 32:20

That's awesome. That is a difficult population to find placement for is pregnant females.

Speaker 4: 32:28

And we're going to keep them here. We're going to get them through the birth. We're going to keep them after the birth. We're going to help them. We're hiring. We've got doulas, and so it's something I'm just wildly excited about. They're opening up the Patriots program, which is for first responders and vets. It's an exciting time to be here.

Speaker 3: 32:50

We're going to have to come down there and check you out. Come on down.

Speaker 3: 32:53

You know I've sent some very complicated cases to you guys over the years and it is my go-to for older adults, for the older adult population Old Rick Hubbard, who's no longer with you guys, but he's a great dude man, he really is. We've had him on the podcast. He said Sam, he said if they've got a head, if they've just got a head, if we can roll them in the door and they're still alive and they've got a head, we can pretty much take them.

Speaker 4: 33:22

And that's about true. We have the advantage of being, we have a medical staff, we have a lot of internal medical support. We're also basically on the campus of a trauma hospital, so there's a lot of advantages here towards taking those higher, more complicated patients.

Speaker 3: 33:41

So I've been thinking about this and I just wanted to ask a guy that I just met this, and I just wanted to ask a guy that I just met if we were to how, how, how easier or how god, I can't even talk now how more effective would it be? And wouldn't it be more true, instead of saying, hey, man, don't you want to come get sober, is this set? Because that doesn't sound fun at all, that doesn't sound enjoyable like at all to people that need to get sober. But what if we were to say, man, don't you want to come have a profound spiritual experience? Who doesn't want to have a profound spiritual experience? Would you want to have?

Speaker 3: 34:22

I mean, I know you've had many profound spiritual experiences. I have as well. As a result, I found the purpose in my life of when you, if you'd asked me before who am I, I'd have told you I was. You know I did this type of job. I'm a dad, I'm this, I'm you know, I'm a country boy, I'm this, and that I had no idea who I really was. But as a result of a profound spiritual experience, I know my authentic self. I know who I am with nothing. I know my purpose. Yeah, like, and that's as a result of a profound spiritual experience. Like, isn't that what you guys are doing is providing the groundwork for a profound spiritual experience? It sounds more exciting than just saying hey, don't you want to come get sober.

Speaker 4: 35:07

And at the end of the day you know, I've been a therapist for I don't know 25 years or so I think the most important question I ever ask anybody is what do you want? And what most people will eventually answer is well, I just want to be happy. People will say that all the time, and the truth is, you know, happy comes from this old English word. Happy literally means luck. Happy means I feel good based on my external circumstances, and there's nothing wrong with it. But when that's your ultimate pursuit, you're going to be chasing your tail.

Speaker 4: 35:52

What I think most people really, really want is peace, and either way, whatever words we use, whether it's peace or that profound spiritual experience or that spiritual awakening, I find I'm with you, asking people what is it that you want? What are you looking for? And, and, by the way, some people will say I just want to go drink, leave me alone, and and and then we can, but I mean, once we get down, why do you want to drink? Cause I can't shut my mind off, guys. What they're still looking for is peace. Yeah, so what we are at the end of the day is we're peace salesmen, um, andmen, and spiritual awakening salesmen, and what I mean. How can you not be excited about that?

Speaker 3: 36:33

Exactly, exactly, john. It's been an honor, it's been wonderful.

Speaker 2: 36:37

I hope we can have you on again. There's so many other questions that I want to ask you that we just don't have time for. I'd love to get into just so many different things, and so, if we can have you back on sometime soon.

Speaker 4: 36:49

I'd love to invite you back Anytime.

Speaker 3: 36:51

I think I'm going to come down to Florida and just do some content with you Just come on.

Speaker 4: 36:56

And so here's the deal my barbecue is the best around and and we do a an alumni barbecue where and I cook for cook for 400 people, and we do an alumni barbecue and I cook for 400 people, and I had seven people from Texas seven Three of them said it was the best brisket they've ever had. So I'm just saying.

Speaker 3: 37:20

So, john, I do a series on YouTube called Recipes and Recovery and we got to get on there, do some talking just two guys talking but a little bit about recovery and a whole lot about food and I would like for you to show others unless it's an age-old family secret how you can make that best barbecue around Come on, I'm there. Does Hanley have a kitchen big enough for us to get in there and do our stuff? I have it at home.

Speaker 4: 37:54

But when we do the alumni barbecue there's a company that lends us about a 20-foot stick burner. I get a hammock. I love the outdoor. I get a hammock, I sleep outside and we spend. I mean I'm talking real deal. But at home I have the easy bake oven, but still it is. I wouldn't use anything else. All right, as long as you're okay with a pellet smoker guy at home.

Speaker 3: 38:27

I'm not. I'm not.

Speaker 2: 38:29

I'm not a snob. If it's the best brisket somebody's ever tasted, I think I'll be just fine with it.

Speaker 3: 38:33

I cooked ribs in the crock pot last week. You know, like no shame in my game. Well, that's kind of shameful, that's kind of you know, just kind of. Hey, I had to take a guy to treatment in a helicopter. I had to be gone for that day, man and I wanted ribs at night. I put them in the crock pot. Eight hours later I'd fall off the bone. Ribs Beautiful. Don't hate on me brother. I'm not going to hate on that.

Speaker 2: 38:56

Well, gentlemen, thank you for being here today. John, it's been a pleasure. Hope we can see you again soon.

Speaker 4: 39:01

We will. You let me, I'm there. Thanks guys, you got it All right.

Speaker 3: 39:06

Thank you and always listen. Guys. Matt and I, we're on intervention on call, we are interventionists, we are providers, and intervention on call is your place as a family member that needs to be educated. You just don't know what to do or how to handle a certain situation, or whether you need a full-blown intervention. Intervention on call. We do on-demand sessions an hour at a time. Give you everything we can possibly give you in that hour. It's an excellent way to ease you into this process of intervention, that fearful word of oh my God intervention. So check us out. Interventiononcallcom. Thank you all so much. Interventiononcallcom. Thank you all so much.

Speaker 1: 39:50

Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people To learn more, or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode, or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at PartyWreckerscom and remember don't enable addiction ever. On behalf of the Party Wreckers, Matt Brown and Sam Davis. Let's talk again soon.