Your enabling is their oxygen—boundaries are the way forward.

The question Matt Brown hears most frequently in his work as an addiction interventionist is deceptively simple yet profoundly challenging: "How do I get my loved one to accept help?" In this powerful return episode of the Party Wreckers podcast, Brown draws from decades of experience to provide families with practical, compassionate strategies for breaking through resistance and creating pathways to recovery.

Matt begins by dismantling the myth that addiction is a choice, comparing it to the overwhelming urge to scratch a chickenpox itch despite knowing the consequences. "Nobody wakes up and decides, 'Hey, I think I'm going to burn my life to the ground today,'" he explains. Rather, addiction functions as a desperate attempt to self-medicate against underlying trauma, mental health issues, or emotional pain that feels unbearable without chemical assistance.

At the heart of this episode is the powerful parallel between the addict's struggle and the family's enabling patterns. Matt reveals how both sides operate from the same emotional avoidance - the addict using substances to escape feelings, while family members enable to avoid guilt, conflict, and discomfort. "Addiction can't survive for any length of time without enabling," Brown states, comparing the relationship to oxygen feeding a fire. By examining three primary forms of enabling - financial support, emotional coddling, and silence - families can begin identifying their contributions to the cycle.

Matt provides transformative guidance on establishing and communicating boundaries, emphasizing language that signals true resolve: replacing "I can't do this anymore" with "I will no longer do this." He explains why family unity proves crucial in intervention success, noting that the 10-15% of people who initially refuse help often do so because they don't believe boundaries are real. When families stand firm while continuing to express love, the message becomes clear: "We're no longer going to let your addiction dictate the rules and hold this family hostage."

For families feeling afraid of potential consequences - from homelessness to incarceration or worse - Brown offers balanced perspective and hope. "Those things aren't as catastrophic as what waits if addiction continues," he acknowledges, whil

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Party Wreckers Podcast
• 3:12 Understanding Addiction as Disease
• 8:50 The Enabling-Addiction Relationship
• 17:33 Setting Effective Boundaries
• 25:30 Communicating Boundaries with Love
• 29:19 Finding Support and Resources

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by seasoned addiction interventionist, Matt Brown. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism. Perhaps they are reluctant to get the help that they need. We are here to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stick with us and we will get you through it. Welcome the original party wrecker, Matt Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Welcome to another episode of the Party Wreckers podcast. This is a long time coming. After quite a long hiatus, I'm back and recording another episode. Thank you for being patient while things were kind of getting back on track, but I want to talk in this episode about. You know, I guess the best way to explain it is over the last year, year and a half, intervention On Call has been hosting weekly Now we're doing it twice a week, every Monday and every Thursday weekly family support calls where we get families that are in crisis, whose loved ones are in active addiction, and we often ask them to submit questions ahead of time so that we can address a lot of these questions while we have families. We may be getting anywhere from 60 to 70 families every meeting that we have, 60 on Mondays and again on Thursdays, and so the turnout's been great. But one of the questions that we consistently get is how do I get my loved one to the point where they're willing to accept help? And there's so much that goes into this question that I wanted to actually make an episode of the podcast that would address this question. I don't want to belabor it, but I also want to spend some time really getting into how to do this, because as an interventionist, this is exactly what I do and I don't think that every family needs to have somebody like me come into their living room and do an intervention. Sometimes that's necessary. Sometimes you've got an erosion of confidence on both sides, where the family has consistently tried to set boundaries, only to have those boundaries get ignored or not get enforced and the addicted individual actually begins to lose confidence and lose trust in the family if they can even hold those boundaries. And so in a case like that, a lot of times I am recommending that a family does engage somebody on a professional capacity to come in and do an actual intervention. Most of the time in my coaching sessions with families I'm able to really give them opportunities and new language and new structure, new boundaries to help them do this on their own.

Speaker 2: 3:23

But let's start at the beginning. You know a family has just identified that they've got a loved one that this is not going to get better on its own. I think for a long time families really operate in that space of. You know, let's just see if this can't self-correct, let's see if we can't get our loved one to really turn this around on their own and for most people that's overly optimistic. When you've crossed that line into addiction, as much as we don't want to live that life, it's very, very difficult for us to course correct on our own, for the simple reason that, for as much as we don't want it, we also don't want to relinquish control, and we will fight or control, sometimes at our peril.

Speaker 2: 4:25

You know, I, speaking personally, was at a point where I was homeless, I was penniless, I was unemployable, and yet I still held on to this belief that I was somehow going to pull myself out of it, that I was going to find the formula that would allow me to be successful. And of course, it was delusional thinking, but I believed my own story. At that point, I really did believe that I could do this on my own. Now, for families, when you see somebody struggling and I want to say this as delicately as I can, but I also want to be straightforward and honest about it as well At some point the family really has to just kind of break their own denial and say, okay, this is not working. What we're doing right now is not working, and you really have to be willing to ask yourself is what I'm doing, providing the results that I'm hoping to get, and if the answer is no, that's okay.

Speaker 2: 5:28

This problem doesn't come with an instruction manual, and in every family there's a certain level of dysfunction that's in operation, and I mean every family. There's no such thing as a perfect family out there. As much as we want to project that on social media and as much as we want to make our friends believe that, hey, everything in our house is okay, it's not. I can't tell you how many times I've been traveling around the country over the last 20 years and I can be sitting next to somebody on a plane and we'll get into a conversation where they'll ask me what I do. I'll mention that I'm an interventionist.

Speaker 2: 6:04

The next thing, you know, I'm in the middle of a story with them about somebody that they know, somebody that they love, that struggled, or that is an active struggle, with addiction. This is a problem that affects every single family almost without fail. I have yet I mean, I can't recall many people that I've talked to over the years that haven't been touched by this problem in some way, shape or form. So I think we have to really smash the idea that this isn't happening in our house. This is happening, and if you're listening to this podcast, there's a really good chance that this is happening in your home, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that you failed. It doesn't mean that you're a bad parent or a bad spouse. It just means that somebody in your family is struggling with a problem that's too big for them to conquer on their own and likely it's too big for you to conquer as you try to help them.

Speaker 2: 6:59

And so I think that's the first thing you have to kind of reconcile is that I don't know how to handle this. What I'm doing is not working, because if they knew how to fix the problem, they would have done it already. If I knew how to fix the problem, I would have done it already. With what is it that I'm really fighting against here? And you know this gets back to? Is addiction a disease? Is addiction a choice? I think it's universally accepted At least I hope it's universally accepted now that addiction is not a choice, it is a disease.

Speaker 2: 7:35

Nobody wakes up and decides hey, I think I'm going to burn my life to the ground today. I think that it would be a really good idea for me to destroy relationships, lose my job, you know, really really just wreck my life and hurt a lot of people in the process. Nobody sets out to do that, we just, you know, the analogy that I'll use a lot of times with families is that, you know, imagine back to the days where you know for those of us that are old enough to remember this that you had chickenpox and the incredible compulsion that you had to scratch that itch. No matter how much your mom told you, stop scratching, you're going to get infected. That itch, no matter how much your mom told you stop scratching, you're going to get infected. You're going to get scars. You're going to regret it. It didn't matter. All I could think about was scratching that itch. I didn't care about the consequences, I didn't care if I got scars, I didn't care if I got infections. I knew that wasn't going to happen that moment, and that itch was so powerful that all I could think about was scratching it. That's kind of like what it's like to have an addiction.

Speaker 2: 8:50

The itch is so powerful and it comes from a number of different sources. It can come from untreated mental health issues. It can come from unresolved childhood trauma or abuse or neglect or abandonment, or grief or loss. There's so many different reasons why the pain exists, that we're trying to self-medicate. But as soon as I was old enough to have experienced alcohol for the first time and took that first drink and realized like, oh, I mean, I don't have to feel this, I don't have to feel the anxiety and the fear and the loneliness and the depression and the guilt and the anger and the shame All of that just went away when I consumed enough of this magic potion. The only thing I can think about is I got to do this again tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 9:34

That was me scratching that itch and of course that escalated from there and it graduated to other substances along the way and other behaviors along the way. And that's what we're really up against is the person is trying to solve an internal, paralyzing, excruciating problem with an external solution and going to a treatment facility, getting into a 12-step program. Finding a way to treat that itch is more important than the itch itself. And I think a lot of times we focus on the behavior. Hey, if you'll just stop drinking, if you'll just stop using those drugs or gambling or whatever the behavior is, if you'll just stop, life will get better. And I think that as you endeavor to get yourself educated, there will be this discovery that that's really not the case. When you take drugs and alcohol away from somebody like me, somebody like your loved one, who's struggling, life is not going to get better right away. It's going to get much, much worse, because now I have to feel everything that I've been trying to not feel.

Speaker 2: 10:53

Now there's another side to this coin, and that is that the family is engaged in an incredible amount of enabling. Most of the time it's kind of like the relationship between oxygen and fire. A fire can't survive for very long without oxygen. It goes out very quickly when you remove the oxygen. And addiction can't survive for any length of time without enabling. Not that the removal of the enabling itself is the end-all, be-all for addiction. That's kind of the flaw in that metaphor. But I hope that it helps to really kind of explain, like when you take away the enabling, it allows the problem to be arrested long enough for another solution to come along and get implemented, or at least the fire's not going to get bigger.

Speaker 2: 11:42

And so the reason that we as family members will enable is the very reason that those that are in active addiction are in active addiction, and that is that I don't want to feel what I'm going to feel if I don't engage in those behaviors. I don't want to feel what I'm going to feel if I don't engage in those behaviors. I don't want to feel like I'm a bad dad. I don't want to feel like I'm a bad brother or husband or partner. So I will convince myself that I'm doing this out of love, and I think that for the most part, that's probably true. We're doing this because we love this person. We don't actually want to hurt them. But the bigger reason is is I don't want to feel the guilt that I'm going to feel if I don't do this.

Speaker 2: 12:33

And when we get honest with ourselves about that, we can really start to take a look at okay, why am I really doing this? I know I shouldn't be. I know I should stop doing this, but I can't. How many times do you think your loved one has said that to themselves? I don't want to do this anymore, but I can't stop. It's the exact same thing that you're wrestling with as somebody who's enabling the addict as they're wrestling with. I know I shouldn't do this, but I can't keep from doing it. I can't keep from making sure they have money in their gas tank, or making sure they've got food, or giving them money, because they're asking for money for food, but then they go and use it for drugs, and I know that's what they're going to do. I'm just hoping that they're going to use it for what they're telling me they're going to use it for.

Speaker 2: 13:16

And we get stuck in that cycle of well, maybe this time it'll work. And it's the same thing we tell ourselves as active addicts and active alcoholics, that maybe this time it'll be different and without some new tools in our toolbox, it's rarely going to be the case, and so I think, getting back to the point that I was making, is that we've got to really get educated about what it is we're really struggling with on both sides of this. What is it that the person who's in active addiction is really struggling with, and what is it that the family's really struggling? Because this disease operates on two different planes. It operates on the addiction side, with the individual, and it operates on the codependency side, with the family, and until we really look at it as a systemic problem and really start to implement a systemic solution, it's very unlikely that this problem is going to self-correct.

Speaker 2: 14:17

Now. From there, it's about changing the conversation. Now that we have some understanding about, okay, I better understand what it is I'm dealing with. What is it that I have to change in my conversation? And you know, the thing that comes up consistently on these weekly family calls is boundaries. How do I know when I need to create boundaries with my loved one, how do I enforce those boundaries? How do I communicate those boundaries without creating conflict? And and here's where that gets tricky. I think that a lot of times we start to play this game of mental chess with addiction and we really just need to be playing checkers. We really need to dumb it down and simplify it. When we can, we have the capacity to really overcomplicate this. We start to think, well, if I say this, then they're going to do this, so I have to do this, and then this is going to happen, and so I'm going to need to do this to stop that, and and we just get and we try to get so many moves ahead that it just gets really cumbersome and complicated and the next thing, you know, it's like well, gosh, I don't even know where to start.

Speaker 2: 15:27

The first thing you have to ask yourself and, as I'm working with families, as we're planning an intervention. There's two questions that I ask every family to ask themselves. The first is am I enabling the addiction in any way? Am I enabling it financially? Am I enabling it emotionally? Am I enabling it just by staying silent? And the emotional enabling isn't that it really looks more like I'm going to try to make this person feel better in the moment than actually tell them the truth about what's really going on.

Speaker 2: 16:01

When I would have a girlfriend break my heart or I would have somebody do something to me where I felt like I was the one being the victim, a lot of times people in my life would just tell me hey, it's going to be okay. You know what? She probably wasn't the right one for you. This probably wasn't the right thing for you to be doing. Instead of saying, hey, maybe you're the problem, maybe there's some different choices you could be making and some different things that you can do to get some help that could avoid this problem in the future, instead of telling me what I needed to hear, people were telling me what would make me feel better in the moment.

Speaker 2: 16:37

I think a lot of times we fall into that trap where we just want somebody to have a little bit of hope that, hey, this is, this is going to be okay and and not that we need to beat people over the head and say you're the problem. But at the same time we we withhold the truth, sometimes thinking that they'll figure it out. Sometimes our enabling comes in the form of silence, where it's just I don't want to talk about the elephant in the room, I don't want the conflict, I don't want the eruption that's going to happen if I bring this up again, so I'm just going to ignore it and we'll live to fight another day. And you do that once or twice. That's probably not enabling, but you put enough of those days and weeks together where the elephant doesn't get talked about and that definitely becomes enabling behavior. And so those are really the primary ways where I see loved ones enabling the addiction.

Speaker 2: 17:31

The other question that I want families to ask themselves is is the addiction harming me in any way? Is it harming me financially? Is it harming me emotionally? Is it harming me physically? And it harming me emotionally Is it harming me physically? I don't necessarily mean physical abuse, although sometimes that happens. I'm really talking about the stress, the anxiety, the neglect that we have for ourselves and our well-being, the lack of sleep and self-care that we give to ourselves, because so much of our bandwidth is spent focused on this other person that we just abandon ourselves in the process and the health problems begin. The relationship problems begin with other relationships that are important and other important priorities get neglected. And so if the answer to either of those questions is yes, then and the next question can't be well, what do they have to change? Because we can't control them.

Speaker 2: 18:28

The next question has to be what do I have to change in my behavior so that either I'm no longer enabling them which really means so that I'm no longer causing them harm, and so that I'm not allowing this to harm me in the ways that it has up until now as well, harm me in the ways that it has up until as well? And so, as we really get honest about that, that's where we really start to get clear on what are my boundaries needing to be right? Have I enabled this financially? Do I need to stop giving them money? Do I need to not allow them to live in my home anymore because I'm just providing a place for them to continue living in their addiction? Do I need to stop providing them a vehicle so they can no longer go out and participate in their addiction? Do I need to stop providing them a vehicle so they can no longer go out and participate in their addiction? Do I need to stop providing them with a phone so they can stop communicating with the people that are facilitating their addiction? All of these things come into play.

Speaker 2: 19:18

Sometimes the boundary needs to be hey, until you have decided to get some help, I can't engage in a relationship with you, because I can't trust that you're not going to be honest with me. I can't trust that you're not going to try to manipulate me. I can't trust that you're going to be kind. My experience is that you can be abusive verbally and emotionally, and so I don't want to put myself in that situation anymore. So sometimes the relationship has to be put on hold until that person has decided that they're ready to get some help. Sometimes it's exactly the opposite.

Speaker 2: 19:53

Sometimes the response is hey, I've stayed quiet about this for far too long and I'm not going to be afraid to talk about this anymore. So, as we move forward, I hope we can talk on a regular basis, but I need you to know that every time we talk, it doesn't have to be the only thing we talk about, but every time we talk, I'm going to ask you if you are ready to get some help, and if the answer is no, hey, that's okay. If you're under the influence when we're talking, I'm going to ask you to call me back when you're sober. If we're together at a function, at a family get together or whatever, and you're under the influence, either I'm going to leave or, if you're at my place, I'm going to ask you to leave. I'm not going to be a partner to your addiction anymore.

Speaker 2: 20:39

And so it's really about being clear on what do I have to do to change those boundaries? And then it's. The next step is how do I communicate that in a way where they know that I love them? But there's no room for misinterpretation, there's no room for loopholes and manipulation and those kinds of things again, and what I would suggest is that you remove the language from your vocabulary of I can't do this anymore, because history shows that with enough pressure applied, you can and you will. For most of us, yes means yes and no just means we need to try a little bit harder to get you to say yes, and so the conversation has to really, and the language that you hear yourself speak has to change to the point where now it's I will no longer do this. I won't give you money anymore, I won't allow you to live in my home anymore, because I'm not going to provide a place for your addiction to thrive. I'm not going to provide a place for your addiction to thrive. I'm not going to provide a vehicle for you anymore. Instead of saying I can't let you live here anymore, I can't give you money anymore, there's just a different message that gets sent both to the individual and to you, sending this message to yourself when you use that language of I will no longer be a party to this. I love you and I hope that you'll make the decision to get some help.

Speaker 2: 22:08

We get told that, hey, how can you do this to me? I remember when my family gave me the opportunity to get some help and I was livid because the option was either I can go and get some help or I was going to have to leave their home. And here I'm thinking you know, you're my parents and it's your job to take care of me, and you're going to be really awful parents if you send me out to go fend for myself and I tried to gaslight them into thinking that they were the problem and that they were creating a bigger problem. They were putting me at risk by not taking care of me. Luckily, they didn't fall for it, but I think that a lot of families that I've interacted with both you know, as an interventionist in private practice and on these weekly family calls so many families experienced that guilt trip of how could you do this to me?

Speaker 2: 23:22

And it becomes really important that you're clear on hey, I'm giving you an option. You're just saying no, there's food, there's wonderful food at this treatment center. You don't need to be hungry. They will provide you with three square meals a day and probably some snacks in between. Not going to have to sleep on the sidewalk. There's a wonderful, comfortable bed in this treatment program where you're going to be able to sleep and they're probably even going to wash your sheets for you. You don't even have to clean the sheets. You're going to have some of these things taken care of, but you're choosing not to.

Speaker 2: 23:59

And so now you're asking me to step in and provide something for you, because you want to do this on your terms, and I see this so often that we want a different life, but we want to do it on our terms, we want to do it in our way, and so many times that puts the family at a disadvantage, because we expect the family to get on board with our plan instead of finding a way to become willing to do this a different way than we've done up until that point. And so, as a family member, as a group, you really have to come together and get united on. Here's where we're going to go with this, and if there's a lack of unity in the group, get united before you ever sit down with your loved one. That's going to be critical, because if I know there's a weak link in the chain, I'm going after that person first. I'm going to try to manipulate them before I ever agree to make some changes, because I want to see if those boundaries actually are real. To make some changes, because I want to see if those boundaries actually are real. And it's really, really important that families stay united in this, because my experience as an interventionist is about 85 to 90% of the time, the people that I intervene on will go to treatment on the day that we do the intervention, because we've come up with a message that really helps them understand that the rules have changed. We're no longer going to let your addiction dictate the rules and hold this family hostage.

Speaker 2: 25:37

Sometimes, when they do say no, it's because they don't believe that the boundaries are real. This jerk, matt Brown, has come in here and he's told everybody to say what they're saying. He's brainwashed them into saying things that they've never said before, and so as soon as I can get him out of the living room, I'll go back to doing what I do, and they'll go back to doing what they do, and the status quo gets restored. And so sometimes there has to be some learning. That happens that, oh, this has really changed. They really meant what they said, and they've got some support from from a professional and they've got some support from each other to make sure that this, these wagons, stay circled and and I'm not going to be able to to divide and conquer anymore than I'm used to I'm not going to be able to get them fighting with each other and and, and then be able to manipulate to get my way.

Speaker 2: 26:28

So that's going to be an important piece, and I know that I'm kind of throwing a lot out here and I'm hoping that I'm not going too fast, but this is just something that has come up so often, so recently that I just felt like it was time to do something more robust about this and I thought this would be a good topic for the podcast. And so, as you're communicating these, don't worry about their reaction. Let them react. However they're going to react, just know that you've got to plant your feet where you stand and not be moved, and do it with love. And when they have that strong reaction, you can just say hey, I understand why you're angry, I just need you to understand my, my, my answer is not going to change. This is where the line is, and and you're welcome to make a different choice. But as far as I'm concerned, right now, this is this is what I'm willing to support, this is what I'm not willing to support, and you need to make your choices accordingly. I love you and I hope that you'll choose to get help, but if you don't, I'm going to love you enough to let you experience what you're choosing to experience and then step back and let them have that experience, because sometimes life has to teach us what we're not willing to learn any other way.

Speaker 2: 27:51

And it's scary and I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's not. It is. It's really, really scary because we're dealing with a problem that ultimately is going to be fatal. It lands people in prison, it lands people in the hospital, it lands people in the cemetery and I don't say that flippantly. Those are real consequences, but most of the time people will choose a different path before it gets to that, most of the time, and so if you'll set back and let them have that experience, it may mean that they get arrested and there's no preventing that. There's. You trying to prevent them from going to jail, you trying to prevent them from being hungry is only going to buffer them from some of the things that need to happen, sometimes just the natural consequences of their choices. But those things aren't as catastrophic as what waits for them if the addiction continues. You know arrest records can get cleaned up. You know relationships can get mended.

Speaker 2: 28:58

I really want to try to give you some hope that if you will allow yourself to step back and in the meantime, as you're stepping back, do everything you can to continue to strengthen yourself and your recovery. Come to the Monday and Thursday night meetings that we have. Get involved with some of the families and with some of the other interventionists that are on the Intervention On Call platform. Let us be the ones to kind of walk you through this and continue to support you on this. That's what we're here for and to really surround yourself with people who are going to buoy you up and and help you understand that you're not alone.

Speaker 2: 29:39

There are so many families going through this same problem and if you can get connected with them whether it's in Al-Anon, whether it's in adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families or CODA or, like I said, the weekly family meetings that we do you'll find that you're not alone and, as somebody in recovery, to be able to go to a meeting and know that I'm not the only crazy person in there that's thinking the things that I'm thinking on a regular basis is a big deal. I feel like I'm in a place where I'm understood and sometimes we really need that and I really want to encourage you, as family members, to allow yourself the opportunity to get that. I hope this has been helpful. If there's more that you need, I want to encourage you to reach out. You can email me at matt at partyrecordscom. You can find me at freedominterventionscom. You can find me at interventiononcallcom.

Speaker 2: 30:34

You are welcome to reach out and connect with me. I'm more than happy to help. This is what I do professionally. I'd love to connect with you on one of our family calls. Those are completely free, I hope. Like I said, I hope that this has helped and I hope that it's given you some focus and some direction and some hope on how maybe you can do this a little bit differently. I will be putting out more episodes on a more consistent basis going forward. Thank you for tuning in and sticking with me through the end of this one. I wish you well and I hope your loved one will get sober and stay sober, thank you.

Speaker 1: 31:12

Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people, to learn more or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at PartyWreckerscom and remember don't enable addiction ever.