A Wiser Retirement®

232. Is the backdoor Roth IRA strategy right for you?

• Wiser Wealth Management • Episode 232

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High-income earners, are you looking for a way to maximize your retirement savings even if you exceed the income limits for a Roth IRA? On this episode of A Wiser Retirement® Podcast, Missie Beach, CFP®, CDFA® and Shawna Theriault, CFP®, CPA, CDFA® walk you through backdoor Roth IRAs, how to execute it step-by-step, and why early career planning is crucial for long-term, tax-free growth. From making non-deductible contributions to a traditional IRA to converting it to a Roth IRA, we cover all the essentials you need to know, especially if you've already maxed out your employer-sponsored plans like 401(k)s or 403(b)s.

Podcast Episode Referenced:
- Ep 182: Investing for the Long Haul: Creating a Retirement-Focused Investment Strategy

YouTube Videos Referenced:
- What makes a Roth IRA better than other IRAs? Which IRA is right for me?
- Roth Conversions: Pros, Cons, and Considerations

Learn More:
- About Wiser Wealth Management
- Schedule a Complimentary Consultation: Discover how we can help you achieve financial freedom.
- Access Our Free Guides: Gain valuable insights on building a financial legacy, the importance of a financial advisor for business owners, post-divorce financial planning, and more!

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This podcast was produced by Wiser Wealth Management. Thanks for listening!

Backdoor Roth IRA Strategy Explained

Speaker 1

The earlier you are in your career, the more impactful a backdoor Roth is.

Speaker 3

Absolutely.

Speaker 1

Because, if you're, you know, 62, 63, and you're putting 8,000 in a backdoor Roth, you know when we run your plan, it's not going to move the needle in terms of your plan's probability of success. If you put 8,000 in a backdoor Roth for your last two years of employment, right, yeah, I mean, obviously any savings helps, but it's going to be like not even move your needle in the confidence zone, really, right, exactly. So don't expect miracles. Welcome to a Wiser Retirement Podcast where we believe the best financial advice should always be conflict-free. I'm your host, missy Beach, and guiding you to financial freedom. Today is my co-host, shawna Thoreau. Hi, today we're going to talk about backdoor Roth IRAs and how to determine if it's the right strategy for you.

Speaker 2

And we're missing someone today, aren't we? Isn't it scary?

Speaker 1

He turned it over to the wiser ladies.

Speaker 2

To the girls.

Speaker 1

It's the girl show. All right, this is monumental. This is episode 232 and Casey is not here today. Yes, and here we are.

Speaker 2

It'll be fun. We're going to, we're going to blow up the internet, right.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so this might either be the beginning of something new or this could be one and done.

Speaker 2

Missy and I were joking. We're like should we do a good job or not do a good job? Of course we'll do a good job. We go way back though.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so Sean and I used to work together um at a really big firm in Buckhead how many years ago, 20, 21 years ago.

Speaker 2

I mean for a few, a few of those years, yeah, like decades ago, yeah, and so here we are, back in the saddle again together at Wiser, at Wiser.

Speaker 1

So yeah, so good people unite and find their way back together Absolutely. So thanks, casey, for handing over the reins today, and we'll try to be good stewards of your podcast Absolutely. So our topic today is backdoor Roths, and I feel like every client has FOMO when they hear that word.

Speaker 2

Yes, absolutely. It's such a strange word to backdoor Roth, so what exactly does that mean?

Speaker 1

Sounds a little I don't know yeah. I won't go there.

Speaker 2

Exactly.

Speaker 1

But yeah, so Shauna, basically, what is a backdoor Roth?

Speaker 2

Well, it is a way for higher income earners to get money into a Roth if you're not able to contribute to it. So there's many strategies to get it in there, but basically we can start by even just talking about what is a Roth IRA.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, okay, so not everybody can contribute directly to a Roth right Because there's income limitations, exactly so, like what's the basic income limitation? Cause it's different for single people versus married.

Speaker 2

It is. It is so if your income is less than 146,000 and you're single, you can put money into a Roth, but if it's over, it starts phasing out until a certain point where it's completely phased out and married filing jointly. If your income's less than 230,000, you can do a Roth, but above that it starts phasing out until your income's high enough that you just can't even contribute to it.

Speaker 1

So that's the key thing. So if you're within those income limits, there's no need for a backdoor Roth. So don't make your life more complicated than it needs to be. You just put your money straight into that Roth.

Speaker 2

Absolutely yeah, no problem at all.

Speaker 1

But if you're above the limit for a Roth contribution directly, that's where this backdoor strategy comes in.

Speaker 2

Okay so, and normally you're looking at it for the higher income earners although it doesn't feel like at $230,000 when you're raising kids in this economy that you're a high income earner does it, no, it really does not.

Speaker 1

No it doesn't.

Speaker 2

It doesn't, but it's considered above $240,000 for married filing jointly. You're a high income earner and can't put money into a Roth.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and typically we look at this for clients who have A either fulfilled their buckets with their employer plans, like their 401k or their 403b, and they've maxed out there, and so this might be like an add-on strategy if they've got extra cashflow.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. That's my favorite way to use it Absolutely.

Speaker 1

And we're not moving the needle a ton, because you can't really put that much into a Roth IRA each year.

Speaker 2

It's like 7,000 if you're under 50, and 8,000 if you're over 50.

Speaker 2

So it's really, you know, looking at that, I mean there are other strategies with the 401k that are, you know, go more in depth in terms of doing after tax money and doing like a larger backdoor Roth. But for purposes of this, you know, for the IRA, you know you can put in the money after tax into traditional IRA and then subsequently convert it to the Roth. So there used to be years and years and years ago, there was a limitation on being able to convert, an income limitation there, and so when they raised that, this became a new strategy to use. Now they could do away with it because it's the rule right now. So taking advantage of the rules as they are today is a good idea, but it allows you to put money into an IRA after tax. So you may or may not get a deduction for that IRA contribution and then subsequently convert it to get the money into the Roth if you're over those income limitations.

Speaker 1

Okay, so that's logistically how you actually do it Exactly. One day you've got seven grand and you're gonna make a contribution, current your contribution into your traditional IRA Right, let it hang out overnight, yeah, and then next day basically convert it to the Roth.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. And is there any tax due? No, there's no tax due in that scenario, only if you don't have other assets in the IRA account.

Speaker 1

Ah ding, ding ding. So that's kind of the key that people need to look for before they decide if they're a good candidate for this strategy. Right Is a zero balance in that IRA. So what if they have, say, a hundred grand in their IRA and they want to do a backdoor Roth?

Speaker 2

You can, and most of it will be taxable, and so it is based on it's pro rata. What does that mean? Pro rata? So if you put in that $7,000, you now have $107,000. Okay, and so if you go convert $7,000, the contribution you made whatever percentage that 7,000 is of the 107 now becomes taxable to you, which is probably most of it 90 some percent Just doing the math off the top of my head. So you know most of that would be taxable in that scenario.

Speaker 1

And it's already money that you've paid tax on that. $7,000 is already after tax money, right, and now you're going to go pay tax on it a second time. So that totally blows up the strategy of the backdoor.

Speaker 2

Roth. It does, it absolutely does. I do like having the. We talk about the different buckets in retirement, and so you know I do like having the various buckets, and what I mean by that is pre-tax money, roth money, taxable money, so you have all of these areas to pull from when you retire and so many more options. So to your point looking at, maybe, a Roth 401k with your employer to get some money in there, or splitting it, you know, deferring some pre-tax and some to the Roth 401k. I don't know the CPA in me, though when you're in the higher income earning years, I like to get the tax deduction.

Speaker 1

Now I know, but I feel like sometimes when we solve people's long range plans, like putting a little bit over to that Roth 401k side they'll come out ahead.

Speaker 2

They will.

Speaker 1

So I love your strategy of the three different buckets. I feel, like they're going to be set up so well when they get into retirement, and especially all of our early retirees these days. So they're not set up with like a huge bucket of taxable IRA money and every dollar that they need is that ordinary income tax rates. And there they are, at age 55 and right, oh no. What are we going to do? All these creative strategies to get it out before fifty, nine and a?

Speaker 2

half, Absolutely, Absolutely. And the taxes you know, sometimes, when you run the numbers and you're looking at it, you look at your taxable income today and you're thinking, oh well, when I retire my income is going to go down and that maybe I'll be in a lower tax bracket. Well, not, sometimes not if you're putting everything in pre-tax and if we think tax rates are going to go up. We don't know. We don't know if tax rates are going to go up. We suspect they may. But sometimes in retirement, your required minimum distributions that you have to take from those pre-tax contributions, and your traditional IRAs, everything that has that income embedded in it that you have to start taking, sometimes that income plus social security, plus your dividends if you have a taxable account, capital gains, all of that, your income may be similar to what you have right now.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and maybe if tax rates are higher. Yeah, your bracket's not going to change.

Speaker 2

Having a good mix is sometimes a good thing.

Speaker 1

Okay. So I feel like I should almost take back my statement when I said, like, oh, seven or $8,000, you're not going to move the needle that much, but in reality every little bit helps when you're building up that Roth basket. It does Because hopefully those are going to be the last assets that you're going to touch and they're going to grow for decades upon decades. And so, really, seven or 8,000 a year now maybe times two if you're both contributing, both spouses it does make a difference. So, yeah, don't let that hold you back.

Speaker 2

No, and there's a couple of different things I think about too, with the heirs and such. But it's interesting that you should say that in terms of it not growing as much, and the sooner you can contribute to your retirement, the faster it will grow because you have time on your side. And don't not do it just because you don't feel like you have time on your side. And don't not do it just because you don't feel like you have time on your side Always start. But I've gotten to a situation with a client with that where it was really interesting because they had a good amount. You know, I don't know if you remember 08 and 09 where you could convert. That's when they lifted.

Speaker 2

I think 08 and 09 is when they lifted the income restriction for conversion. I think that's when it was, or maybe a shortly thereafter or maybe it was 2000. Yeah, Cause 2010,. You could spread it out over two years or something taxes over two years, and so they lifted that income limitation.

Speaker 2

So I had a lot of clients convert during that time and it was interesting because then you had traditional money in retirement and you had Roth money in retirement and so all of a sudden, because there was less money in that traditional account, they were taking more than their required minimum distribution. You know, further down the road, years later, they were taking more than that required minimum distribution and paying more tax. And I'm like, well, wait a minute, you know, let's think about taking what you need to take from here, maybe taking some from the Roth too, so it gives you more flexibility even in your later years, in your seventies, eighties, you know, um not only that, you know to draw from if, if most of your money's in retirement accounts, Um, but not only that. It's huge what happens with the heirs.

Speaker 1

Oh my gosh, yeah, the assets going to the kids now with Secure Act 2.0.

Speaker 2

Right, right oh, the 10 year distribution and having to take it out over 10 years. So it is so powerful. If you have a million dollar IRA and you inherit that as a non-spouse, you take that over 10 years. That's 100,000 a year or you can delay it. You don't have to keep taking it, depending on if they had started taking it. But you know you still have to take it out with a Roth. But it's tax free.

Speaker 2

So, I mean, if you think about and being able to spread it over your lifetime, which was the rule used to be, that's a huge difference in tax because it could throw you into higher tax brackets in those years and you're really you know, you're putting it all very close together and clustering those distributions. So you know, having it in a Roth for the heirs is powerful. So it's just, it's something to consider, just having these various buckets, not only for when you're in retirement but for also when the family inherits it.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, it's not just a first generation issue. It's to consider the second generation if the portfolio is large enough. And I feel like Michaela and I have been dealing with a couple of clients recently and these are single individuals who are looking at portfolios that they're not going to spend throughout their lifetimes. And it's this exact conversation, shawna, where we're looking at well, does it make sense to pay all the tax now versus waiting till the assets pass to the children?

Speaker 1

And then it's kind of a guessing game of what tax rate are the kids going to be in when the parent might ultimately pass, and what's their earnings capacity like? And how much tax is the parent willing to pay versus now, versus in the future and making all these assumptions? So a lot is based purely on assumption, but we can only base it on current tax rates. And I think that's the gotcha, that that's the unknown Well in a portfolio performance right.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, true, I love converting. When the market's down, it's good things, the good things in the market's down, you can put more in, you can convert money and you can take losses. So there's so many. You know, when people see, oh, there's a down market, there's positives to it too. I'd prefer it to be up, of course, but you know.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, make lemonade out of lemons. Absolutely yeah, when the market's down.

Strategies for Backdoor Roth IRA

Speaker 4

Yes, exactly, Shovel it out of the IRA over to the Roth. Are you curious why annuities keep coming up as a potential investment option? People are often told that annuities can effectively mitigate investment risks and help secure their financial future. However, annuities often benefit the salesperson and might not be the best choice for you as a consumer. To learn more about the various types of annuities, the negatives of owning them and better investment alternatives, we have a free ebook on our website just for you To download our ebook. Buyer, Beware, why Do they Keep Trying to Sell you that Annuity? Simply click the link in the episode notes or visit wiserinvestorcom slash guides. Now let's get back to the episode.

Speaker 2

So converting now is kind of like and it's a long-term play, so you're not trying to market time. But running projections is a good way to do it, just making assumptions, as you said, and then looking at what are the balances going to be during these different points, based on a set of assumptions as how much it's going to grow, how much the taxes are going to cost, things like that.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, so you can tell we have fun with this stuff.

Speaker 2

I mean, we're such nerds, we are nerds, I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1

Oh, all right. So let's talk about, like, who should consider a backdoor Roth. Um, you know, obviously you should consider it if your income is above the traditional Roth IRA contribution limits, because that's your only ticket into a Roth, I guess, outside of an employer 401k that has the Roth 401k side, let's see who else is a good candidate for a backdoor Roth.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I really looking at it as maybe someone who doesn't have a 401k option at their employer but they are a W-2, that would be a good one. So you can't really if you're self-employed there's other different things you can do. But as somebody who maybe doesn't have a 401k option, if you're earning you know a good amount doing that option. If you're earning, you know a good amount doing that. So that may be something to consider there. You know, to your point earlier. I like the fact of you know in your higher income earning years you may be deferring as much as you can to your employer plan, maybe pre-tax or a mixture, and then you have all of this money that you're potentially saving on the outside and so that's where you know looking at a potential backdoor Roth, looking at adding more to the brokerage account. Maybe you know doing some outside of the retirement account. That's where that would come into play, because at least you can sock away $7,000 or $8,000, you know, in addition to what you're saving to the brokerage account potentially.

Speaker 1

I like that and I think the earlier you are in your career, the more impactful a backdoor Roth is.

Speaker 2

Absolutely.

Speaker 1

Because if you're, you know 62, 63, and you're putting $8,000 in a backdoor Roth is Absolutely. Because if you're, you know 62, 63, and you're putting 8,000 in a backdoor Roth, you know when we run your plan it's not going to move the needle in terms of your plan's probability of success If you put 8,000 in a backdoor Roth, for you know your last two years of employment. Right, yeah, I mean, obviously any savings helps, but it's going to be like not even move your needle in the confidence zone, really, right, exactly. So don't expect miracles.

Speaker 2

But to your point. You know, yes, it may not move it for your plan, but even if you do it for two years and you get I mean at that point I'm assuming you're over 50, 16,000 in the raw. That can grow until you're 90 and it goes to your kiddos and or your grandchildren, you know, and that is still growth on their tax-free.

Speaker 1

Well that's true, and then you're working, so your spouse can do a spousal contribution.

Speaker 2

So you can double that.

Speaker 4

You can.

Speaker 2

Yeah so that's all about multiplying. Absolutely. It's all about multiplying.

Speaker 1

And then I guess you know the backdoor Roth isn't for the faint of heart. Obviously, if we're managing assets for a client, our client service team is awesome and helps them through that process, which is not like exactly straightforward. But if you're going at your own, the DIY route, you do need some basic knowledge of you know how your system works with your custodian in terms of making it, converting it.

Speaker 1

You know, waiting for it to settle and it doesn't really settle overnight. Typically, you know they might hold your cash for a couple days in the regular IRA till it converts over to the Roth IRA. Yeah, then you'll end up with some fun. You know, like dollar two of earnings that you know hang out in the traditional Right.

Speaker 2

And then you have to report it on your tax return.

Speaker 1

Ah yeah, let's talk about that, shauna. Okay, it's very simple.

Speaker 2

It's very simple though it can be, it gets more convoluted if you have other retirement assets. So one way that you can potentially you'd want to look at all avenues you can potentially, you know, take your IRA rollover assets and put it in your current 401k to kind of alleviate that whole pro rata issue, If it makes sense and you have good investments in your 401k, et cetera.

Speaker 1

Yeah, to zero out your IRA Exactly. That's a great strategy, even if you've rolled it over.

Speaker 2

Most 401k plans do take 401k assets that you've had before and you can roll it in there and you know to zero it out to your you know, potentially. But on your tax return it's very simple. You know there are, I guess simple for those that have seen it, but you will get a 1099r, so you will. You will make a contribution to the ira which will generate a form called 5498.

Speaker 2

That will determine whether it's taxable, non-taxable, based on your other income, or tax deductible rather based on your other income and then you will receive a 1099-R which shows an IRA distribution, but it will tell you on there the portion that is taxable and not taxable, so you still have to put it on your tax return. You just deem it as taxable or non-taxable.

Speaker 1

That's the key, right. So watch your little boxes on the 1099R for taxable amount and the portion not taxable, and that's key. And I really like your strategy of zeroing out the IRA to make yourself eligible for a backdoor Roth, because I feel like in today's day and age, 401k plans are getting a lot better than they used to be. Like we're getting away from the yucky insurance company sponsored plans with fees of like over 1%, with bad mutual funds and that sort of thing where we would have steered clients away from doing that. But we can evaluate and see if a 401k makes sense to load up with more assets from an old IRA.

Speaker 2

Yeah, If you have good investment choices and the expenses are low, potentially, you know, do that, you know it. Just you have to weigh so many different things, but an advisor can help you with that.

Speaker 1

And that's something that a fee only advisor is going to tell you that's the right thing to do to take money out of an investment account and throw it back into a company plan. You know, exactly, exactly, that's the value of fee, only Absolutely, and it may not always make sense, but you know Exactly, exactly.

Simplifying Retirement Accounts and Strategies

Speaker 2

That's the value of fee only Absolutely, and it may not always make sense, but you know. At least consider it so, that way you know you don't have that pro rata issue. And something I see so often too, missy, is that individuals will say, well, I have an IRA that's at like Vanguard. I'm doing this at Schwab, so that doesn't matter, right, but I'm doing this at Schwab, so that doesn't matter, right, but it does matter because it looks at all of the accounts, doesn't matter where it's custodied at. To get that, how much do you actually have in the IRA versus how much are you converting?

Speaker 1

Oh, good point. You have to aggregate all your IRAs Just because you have one with a zero balance at one custodian and one with $2 million at some other custodian. Right? It doesn't work like that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, absolutely, and some of the custodians are easier than others. Most of them are pretty easy to set this up, but you would just set up an IRA and a Roth IRA at a custodian and deposit the money and move it over, and that essentially does it. Now, some of them may make you sign a form to move from one account to the other, but that essentially just takes care of it. And then you get the tax forms, but you just have to keep up with it and know what you're doing throughout the year so that when tax time comes, you know how to handle it.

Speaker 1

And that's also the reason why you only want to work with one custodian, so all your transactions are within that one custodian and you're not going from firm to firm trying to figure out which account is where, and all crazy movements.

Speaker 2

Great point, you know it's, it's. I think it's simpler to work with one custodian and, you know, have everything there and I know people are always worried. I don't want it at one place but it's not. You know they have insurance there's. There's a lot of brokers or custodians now don't have a lot of fees. You know you can do a low cost custodian like Vanguard, schwab et cetera. You know there's not a lot of fees and things like that. Just to make it simpler on yourself.

Speaker 1

Yes, and that's what we really strive to get every client or client couple skinny down in terms of accounts that they have in their names. Like, ideally, if you're married, each husband and wife would have an IRA, a Roth IRA times two and then a joint brokerage account. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you really need much more than that.

Speaker 2

No, maybe you've got some custodial accounts for the kids or 529s, but sometimes clients come in with a list of 25 different accounts and then we can get it down to five and then their lives are so much more simplified because that's like so many less 1099s and 5498s and every tax form imaginable and statement that they're not getting anymore absolutely, because where that comes into play, missy, as you know, the state plan if something were to happen to one of them, and then they have to go to each institution and each account and go to each thing. That's a lot of work, especially when you're, you know, grieving.

Speaker 2

Yeah it's just really is a lot of work and are you really getting the benefit? Are you really getting that much more interest having this many bank accounts or having this many different accounts at various brokers? And you know, when a lot of the brokers you know Fidelity, vanguard, schwab they all do some somewhat similar thing, just like the banks do too. I mean I want you to be under FDIC limits in banks, so I mean that is a good point.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, For your cash.

Speaker 2

Right, but a lot of people do have all of these accounts and it's just, it's a lot to manage for them to keep up with.

Speaker 1

It is so simplify your life Absolutely.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

At a minimum. At a minimum, okay. So I mean, I think we talked about all the tax implications of the backdoor Roth and I think the biggest thing to know is that the money that you are putting in there, you're not paying tax on it twice. Right, that's the great thing. It's already after tax money, it's going into the IRA, it converts to the Roth and you're not paying tax on it for that second trip into the Roth IRA.

Speaker 2

Exactly, and then you know in case listeners don't know or have forgotten. The earnings grow completely tax-free.

Speaker 1

And then at retirement, when they use it.

Speaker 2

It's tax-free and you don't have to take distributions if it's your own Roth or if you're a spouse that inherits it. There's no required minimum distributions on that, so you can just leave it in there.

Speaker 1

Yes, that's. The key difference between the Roth IRA and the traditional IRA is when it's your own account or you've inherited it from the spouse, like you just said. Let's reiterate you don't have to take RMDs, so that means that account can just grow and grow and grow for the next gen. So the more that you convert over to that account, the more tax-free growth you're just providing for your kids or your beneficiaries, whomever they might be. Yeah, the cats or the dogs.

Speaker 2

Or yourself later in life. When you're faced with that, where do I pull from? I have to take some from here, but maybe I can do both, you know, and it's more tax advantaged for you.

Speaker 1

And I think that's the biggest thing that people struggle with in retirement. They want to know where's my income going to come from.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. What's the best way to handle that? The best mix. And that's where an advisor can help with that as well, coming up with that strategy.

Speaker 1

Absolutely. So I think the backdoor Roth is appropriate in some cases, but not all, and people don't have to have fear of missing out if they're not doing it. But you know, in some cases it might be appropriate. So I feel like, with our clients, we've talked to them. If it's something that is something they need to consider, right, if you're a listener out there, yeah, you know, ask your advisor, think about it. If it's something that you're not doing right now because it might add value to your plan, absolutely, but you need a zero IRA balance.

Speaker 2

Yeah, or a smaller one, yes, cause it. Just if you're paying tax on the whole thing, it's still getting in there tax-free.

Speaker 1

Okay. So there's another thing we didn't talk about. If you've got a small IRA balance, it might be worth paying taxes on a small balance to convert that in order to zero out your IRA. So say, you've got $4,000 in an IRA from an old rollover, maybe it might be worth paying tax on $4,000 to convert it. Let it grow tax-free and let it grow tax-free. Then you've got your sweet zero balance. Yeah, and you can do backdoor Roths all day long, yeah, and all it cost you was a $4,000 conversion. Yeah, so that was worth it. Yeah, lots of ways to skin a cat. Shauna, absolutely Okay.

Speaker 1

So what do you think Casey would grade us today? I think he's going to be pretty happy. Okay, yeah, I think so. He might invite us back. Maybe We'll see if Casey does all solo podcasts from here on out. All right, everybody. Well, thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're interested in learning more about Wiser Wealth Management or want to schedule a consultation to meet with one of our fiduciary financial advisors, you can do so by going to wiserinvestorcom, or you can click the link in the episode notes. We've got a podcast, episode 182, investing for the Long Haul Creating a Retirement-Focused Investment Strategy. Or you might pop over to our YouTube videos what Makes a Roth IRA Better Than Other IRAs, or which IRA is Right for Me or another YouTube video Roth Conversions Pros, cons and Considerations. Thanks for tuning in this week and we'll see you next week.

Speaker 3

Thanks for listening to a Wiser Ret retirement podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. Make sure to subscribe wherever you're listening. That way you don't miss any new episodes. We'd also appreciate if you could leave a rating and review. If you have any questions about anything that was discussed today, head to wiser investorcom and reach out.

Speaker 3

This episode was produced by Rachel Dotson. This podcast is strictly for informational purposes only and is not to be considered as investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any financial products, securities, digital assets or any other investment vehicles, or a basis to make any financial decisions. Wiser Wealth Management Incorporated is a registered investor advisor with the SEC. The host and or guests may personally own securities, digital assets or other investment vehicles mentioned on this podcast. Neither the host nor guests of the show are compensated for their participation and no referral fees are paid to or received by any host or guest for clients, listeners or similar interests. Investments involve risk and, unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor, tax professional, insurance professional and or legal professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.