The Truth About Freedom, Burnout & Building a Life You Actually Want.

What does freedom actually look like after you leave the 9–5?

In this episode, we sit down with Cassidy & Aaron for one of the most honest conversations we’ve had yet about entrepreneurship, burnout, relationships, identity, health, social media, Airbnb investing, and building a life that actually feels good to live.

From quitting corporate jobs and living in a van, to building a real estate portfolio and navigating the pressure of constantly chasing “more,” this conversation dives deep into the reality behind the dream life people see online.

We talk about:
 — Leaving corporate burnout behind
 — Building a business with your partner
 — Codependency in entrepreneurship
 — Fitness, sobriety & identity shifts
 — Why social media changed their lives
 — Feeling guilty after achieving freedom
 — Airbnb investing in today’s market
 — AI, creativity & the future of business
 — Learning how to slow down and enjoy the life you worked for

This episode is for anyone who feels stuck between ambition and peace… and is trying to figure out how to build both. 

Hosted by Ethan Glidewell & Sarah Glidewell 

You can view the video & audio version on our Youtube Channel 

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:00

And he was like, you better find a different job with more PTO, otherwise, I'm gonna take four weeks of vacation without you.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Welcome back to the podcast designed to glide well. As you guys know, Ethan and I have been recording solo episodes, and we wanted to bring on couples who we have been building alongside for the last several years, who we've gotten the behind the scenes journey, I guess you could say, to the good, bad, and the ugly of building a business in an intentional life. And today we've got Cassidy and Aaron who are joining us. We have gone through a lot of good, bad, and ugly together. Um, and so I just want to spend today unpacking what that journey has looked like because I feel like, um, at least in our experience, when we're talking to people, a lot of people are interested in building lives like we are and not doing the traditional nine to five thinning. And you guys are such a good example of that. And so I just want people to be able to see how other people are building their lives in a very unique way. Um, so we've got some questions for you today to kind of unpack what that's looked like for you guys. So um so before we get started, I just want you guys to kind of introduce yourselves, what the you know, past has looked like for you guys, and and give people a little insight into what's led you to where you guys are at today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:32

You want to start us off? I'll start. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

So uh I'm Cassidy. I was a corporate engineer, corporate junkie, really. I climbed the ladder all the way up to the top and decided that that was not for me. Yeah, completely burned out, didn't have any space to dream, think, like think about what was next. And that's when we quit our jobs, lived in the van, decided to start investing in real estate. Yeah, there's a common theme. Yeah, but we're gonna talk about that today. Yeah, so yeah, live in the van, and um that was uh about nine years ago, and I got sober at that time, and everything that I've ever like been proud of has been built after uh I got sober. And the last three years really have been all about like diving into my deepest desires and wanting to pursue the greatest life that I could ever live because life is too short, and I just want to live with love, joy, happiness, play, and go create things. Yeah, that's what I meant.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I feel like that's what everybody wants, right? But it's like nobody, nobody goes for it. Like you guys are too afraid, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:38

Yeah, even just saying it out loud is kind of like it's scary.

SPEAKER_07 2:41

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 2:43

Yeah, and I'm Aaron, and also corporate corporate junkie as well. Environmental science and resource management, though. So at least I had like a really cool job where I was like out catching frogs and hugging trees, literally, like that was part of my job with just a little measuring tape hugging trees. Um, and yeah, after a decade of doing that, it was time for a change where we were like, We're so burnt out, let's quit our jobs, let's travel. And like day one or two of being in the van, it was like Cassidy asked me what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, and I said, I want to have cool homes and cool places to be able to host friends and family. Like that was so then the universe conspired in our favor, and the van blew up, and we were broken down, and we quit van life six months earlier than we'd planned, and like immediately jumped into investing in real estate.

SPEAKER_07 3:43

Yeah, so I think we knew you for a little while before we knew what you did for work.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, we followed you for like maybe six months before we connected.

SPEAKER_07 3:51

And then when I found out when you explained what you did, I was like, that's amazing. Yes, that's so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

I would I would call her the swamp stumper. Yeah, yeah, because she would put on her bibs and she would go wade around in in the wetlands, right? And sometimes, like, you know, like stomach, waist, waist height.

SPEAKER_08 4:06

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 4:07

I guess for a corporate job, I mean that's probably as good as it gets.

SPEAKER_08 4:10

Oh my god. Yeah. For college, going on like field trips and doing that kind of stuff. Like my thesis work was being in a wetland every single day with chess waiters and like catching tadpoles and recording data and driving around in a little beat-up truck.

SPEAKER_07 4:27

Well, being in the Pacific Northwest, though, getting so I'm from West Texas, so the little bit of water that we do have, you don't necessarily get into. You don't know what's in there, you can't see further than like an inch. But being in the Pacific Northwest, I mean, that's gotta be incredible to get in that water and like not near as scary.

SPEAKER_08 4:44

It's still a little scary. Okay. It is because you're a lot of times it's dark, it's murky. Oh, yeah. You don't know how deep it is. It could it could vary depending on the season.

SPEAKER_07 4:54

Like this is why I'm scared of water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

But like that's the one thing I love about Pacific Northwest is the water is so alive. There's just life everywhere, right? And we have a we have a house out on Orcas Island, and one of the things that I love, it's it's uh right near the water, and we go crabbing, but we'll just like hang out on the water, crabbing or just hanging out, and you'll see seals, whales, dolphins, like all the fish, just everything interacting with each other, and that's something that's just so great about the Pacific Northwest is it's full of life. It's literally like National Geographic.

SPEAKER_07 5:26

Yeah, the most gorgeous area. It's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah. We were talking about you this morning, and I was telling Ethan that like when we get in these environments where we're around a lot of real estate people in particular, you are always one that comes to mind as like the low-key, coolest person we know because you've got such a skill set that's so unrelated to real estate. But like when we were hiking with you guys and you were like giving us all these facts about the plants and the animals and whatever, and Ethan immediately was like, What did we call you? Like Ranger Ethan or something or two.

SPEAKER_07 5:59

I saw those videos again just the other day, they popped up on my phone.

SPEAKER_08 6:03

Yes, yeah, because it's probably been a year, right? And it's like, remember what you were doing last year?

SPEAKER_07 6:08

Two years. Two years.

SPEAKER_08 6:10

We need to post you guys again, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

So uh we're in our mobile era again, so we're officially homeless.

SPEAKER_07 6:17

Yeah, but we're okay with traveling up north. Yes. Doing the Pacific. Let's go grab the summer. I would love to. Yeah, let's go grab in the summer, too. Yeah. Ask a few questions because I know we're gonna get way deep into some of these.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Fair. Um, okay. One question I've got for you guys is like when you first shifted into realizing that you were living this life, you wanted something different. What did those internal conversations between the two of you look like? Were you immediately like the first time you presented going in a different direction, both of you were on board? Was it prickly conversations? Was it resistance? Like, what did that look like for you guys?

SPEAKER_08 6:53

I feel like, and maybe your recollection of it is different, but I feel like the conversations that we had were in alignment. It's like we had kind of teased the idea of travel because we would take like two-week um trips, ski trips in our van. And it was like anytime we got home, we were like, that was not enough. That was not enough. We need to do this longer, we need to do this longer. And so it was almost like this constant reinforcement of for both of us that we just needed more time. A two-week vacation from your corporate job. Um, I had two weeks. Cassidy was a little more well-established, and he did tell me though, this was a little prickly. He had like six weeks or something like that a year, and he was like, You better find a different job with more PTO, otherwise, I'm gonna take four weeks of vacation without you.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

That sounds pretty intense. That's pretty intense. I did say that. I did say that.

SPEAKER_07 7:55

You received it wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah, I know. Far more kind than that. But what it was was I was recognizing the tension between what the jobs were doing to us and our relationship and freedom. Yeah, I didn't realize it at the time, but what I was really seeking in all of this is like the freedom to go do whatever I want to go do, and feeling this tension between being able to do that and not being able to go do that. So, like something about me is like I will always speak up, but there's been a lot of times in our relationship where I feel like Erin is always a little bit behind me, but that's just like who I am. Like I'm a leader, I'm out front, yeah, I'm looking ahead, like visionary, like all that. And so there's things that I do, like I'll plant seeds, I'll start bringing things up, I'll see, you know, kind of test the water. Yeah, just selling your spouse. So in there, see what she thinks. Yeah, but for most things, like, and we talk about this all the time, how grateful we are for each other and how supportive and in alignment we are with going after our dreams.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Right? Like, I think about people I know, couples I know, say that I know that there's dreams, I know that there's desires, and they're too afraid to ask their spouse. Yes. Or the spouse has made it clear that, like, nope, you're going to work, yeah, don't think about anything else. You got kids, bills, da-da-da, all that.

SPEAKER_08 9:22

Security, security.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

This is what my dad is, what your dad did, that's what we're gonna do. And so that's one of my biggest like missions is to like give people permission to go live the life that they want to go live and have go have the conversations with their spouses that they need to go have. Because if you're not, you're gonna live a life of resentment, like just true and true.

SPEAKER_07 9:41

I think one thing you just said that I I hope everybody just heard was that there is strength in you guys not being necessarily the exact same, right? You're the visionary, maybe you're not, but there is strength there, right? Like opposites do attract and there is value there, right? I just think that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, you're not necessarily the one that's ready to jump off all the time, or maybe vice versa, but it's like one is and you're ready to sport or or the other way around. I think that's incredible. You don't have to both be like all gas, no breaks. Yeah, you don't both have to be what most people would probably call us nuts, right? Like you don't have to both be that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

I think that was it creates a really good dynamic because, like, especially in the past, I'll be like way too out in front, or like changing too many things, or you know, like not as focused as I could be. And she's definitely grounds me and brings me back into like, okay, like let's just take care of the stuff that we need to right now. Uh and that also has created just like is that true? Is it not true? Like, you know, like being able to bounce what is really necessary, what is really realistic, or like what do I need to be going and actually doing. Yeah. And when we we were at the end of one of our projects in Tucson. It was like the last one that we've done, really. Excuse me. And I was like, I wanted to get at hotels, and I basically had to like sit down and almost have like a breakup conversation with Aaron of like, okay, I'm gonna go do hotels. I'm gonna go do this. This is for me. This is what I want to do. I'm gonna go try this. You can come along, but you have to find your space and your role. This is not gonna be Aaron and Cassidy invest in hotels. This is gonna be Cassidy goes and does this. And that was actually one of the greatest things that I could have done for the relationship was create separation in our identities in the relationship because there was a lot of like breakdown and tension of being the short-term rental real estate couple and we were just so burned out to create space and just have me go off and do my thing. It was very fulfilling. And it was very like it was a big part of my growth, actually, was to just go seek my own joy for my own personal fulfillment, yeah, and not have it be tied to really the relationship.

SPEAKER_05 11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Because we had created a little bit of codependency in what we were doing because we were working our consulting jobs, we were together together, we were living in the properties while we were renovating them, we were managing operations, we were trying to stay healthy, which we were not at the time. And and it was just like guilty. Yeah, yeah. I mean relatable, yeah. It's what happens. I mean, you know, you walked in today on on a call about tile and thin set, and yeah, that's what happens. Like it could be any time of the day, and you're having to like take attention away from yourself and take attention away from the relationship to work on the business. And that that's what it takes for an extended period of time.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, that is an era that I feel like all of us deeply relate to in the transition of like what was and then what we want it to be.

SPEAKER_07 12:42

Yes. Yeah, that's incredible. Um, we obviously probably suffer a little bit of that codependency.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yeah, I I feel like we're not in an era where I would consider it suffering yet, you know. Um but I could see how it could get there, right? Because I think both of us are are have a desire to be a leader in our own ways. And then you're in this close-knit space together 100% of the time. So like he is my only point of comparison, truly, and vice versa. And so it does blur the lines of like what's mine, what's yours, what's ours, like what am I owning, what are you owning?

SPEAKER_07 13:19

And what's work, what's personal. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And we've gone back and forth of like, you know, who's leading the ship in our relationship. And so that is uh a push and pull constantly.

SPEAKER_07 13:30

And you guys have had front row to a little bit of that as well, and have offered a lot of guidance and and experience and and help towards that. Yeah, you've seen some good, you've seen some bad. I still remember when you were sitting with us.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

That's right. And that week things were blowing up, hot tubs. As they always do. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I mean, you kind of have to go through it though to be able to get out the other side. Yeah. And you guys made the shift. Like you like were like, we're we're gonna keep doing this and we're gonna get better. Yeah, and that's what it takes.

SPEAKER_07 13:59

That's the only thing we could do. Yeah. Or burn it all, right? I know.

SPEAKER_08 14:02

Yeah, and for us, like the there was just no like safety and there was no boundaries because everything was because we were working our full-time jobs and we were investing in real estate at a very rapid pace, doing all these renovations, two homes a year, and it would be six o'clock in the morning, and you have a thought in your mind about what height do we need that shower wall because we have to get the glass ordered, and we have you know, and it's six o'clock in the morning, and you're being faced with these questions, and it's like, I'm gonna scream, I'm gonna freaking lose it. Yeah, there's no safety in this relationship because there's no clear boundaries, and so having him say that he was gonna separate off into hotels, and it's not gonna be the Aaron and Cassidy show for this phase, and I stayed working my corporate and just kind of like focused on that for a bit was really healthy for us. It was like the breath that we needed, and so now we just one thing that we talked to people to couples that are working together, we're like, it's so good to have the separation, and it might feel scary at first because no one knows you and no one freaking cares about the projects as much as you like as much as you do, as much as you do, like no one cares that much, but to have the separation is like I think we just I my very first time where we were walking recently in the gym and it was seven o'clock in the morning, and she asked me a question about work, and uh and I finally for the first time ever looked at her and said, Do we have to talk about this right now?

SPEAKER_07 15:47

Can we just talk about us or whatever else? Not work. And she looked at me, she's like, I think you were taking it back your own.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

I was like, because we always talk about work 20. You know, it just is the it becomes the relationship to a certain degree because that's the thing that you both are consumed by.

SPEAKER_07 16:03

Yeah, and if you hate the project, you don't want to hate the relationship. And if the relationship turns it, yeah, just no. And I was like, for the first time, I was like, let's just not. Yeah, let's it's okay if we pick this up at 10 o'clock. Yeah, what you learn is it's not gonna blow up in the two hours. You think everything has to be solved right now because it's top of mind, everything seems on fire, and it's like I've learned talking to contractors, it's like, is this a right now problem, or can I get back to you in a few hours? And that question alone, most times it's like, dude, that's like next week. I'm just looking ahead. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yeah, because what you're doing is in a lot of contractors or even employees are hand of mouth. They are like looking at directly what's in front of them. And then if they need a question or like they don't know something, it's like they're just relaying and they're getting it off their plate so they can keep moving to the next thing. Yeah, right. And so then if you if you get pulled into that, then you're just operating in a hand-to-mouth or in a scarcity way, essentially. Frantic energy, frantic energy chaos. Not being a leader, yeah, not being a leader, exactly. But being able to pause, maintain your energy of who you are, and ask powerful questions, and and then you just get to go and operate throughout your day. It takes a lot for someone to get there though.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, I think that there's this mentality that we have struggled with is like, are we the captain or are we the crew? And we always act as the crew. Yeah, you know, we like see ourselves as part of the GC team or whatever, like part of the process as opposed to leading the process. And that's been a I think a little bit of an identity shift that we've had to go through as well.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, and I mean with with short-term rentals specifically, it's a it's a unscalable model because you're doing single-family residential, where you are doing new things to a new home every single time. It's not a cookie cutter, so there's new problems, there's new questions. Like, yes, you can create systems and all that, but like it's still construction. Every house is different, every house is different. Uh seasonality changes, material issues, like it's just each one is a mystery box.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Each one is a box, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:07

And so, yeah, and and then there's the the issue of profitability around single family residential, right? Which is why you know we teach the velocity of money, and I try to encourage people to buy bigger. Yeah, and I always use Michigan Lake Houses as an example of what not to what not to buy.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, if we only knew what we know now.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I know, yeah, but that's you gotta go through it, and we went through it, right? But understanding that okay, we can afford to hire people when we go bigger, yeah. Or if like we raise money or whatever it might be, instead of just you're buying a $300,000 house, there's no margin. There's no so you have to do everything yourself.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

You have to be an operator, you have to be there painting the walls or installing the sink or whatever it is, just or be okay being upside down on it, you know, like that's your exactly your dossier.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 18:54

Well, that leads us into a really Yeah, you guys have obviously had some massive change in the last 10 years, massive growth. We've gotten the privilege to follow along with a lot of it. But uh, if you guys could go back ten years ago and tell yourselves a few things, uh, what would that be?

SPEAKER_08 19:17

Yeah. We've so we've been investing in real estate for six years now. Um so I would just tell myself start now. Like to even have a four-year jump on what we did, what we built, to have an extra four years.

SPEAKER_07 19:36

Yeah, especially what's happened in the last you know, in the last ten years, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:40

It would be completely different. Like the trajectory trajectory is still just like you know, the earlier you get in, the earlier you make you make that change, the earlier you make that decision, the more time you have to build. And so, um yeah, great point. Just get started. Just do it, don't be afraid. And like also 10 years ago, more energy. More oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:07

I was doing the math, I'm like, oh wow, I was 24 years old. I could have done anything. I know.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Right.

SPEAKER_07 20:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I think that there's this like, at least I know for myself, I had this mindset that you had to like eat your shit sandwich before you were, you know, qualified to like jump off this ledge and like buy real estate and like do something cool. And now looking back, I'm like, there is such a huge advantage to doing it when you're young, you're messy, you're scrappy. Um, and so I'm just so thankful that we decided to jump off when we did. And I can't imagine having waited a whole lot longer because it feels like the risk is a lot higher when you've got kids or people that you're relying on, or a bigger mortgage, or like, you know, all of these things that all of a sudden add weight to the idea of you doing something different. And so when you're young, it just it's so much easier, even though it doesn't feel like it should be.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

I mean, we were we were older when we started, right? So I'm turning 40 this year. We're gonna do something big, we're gonna do something big. Let's go. But what I would what I would tell my younger self, my 29-year-old self, is honestly start lifting weights and working out. Number one, because I stopped. I did it like through college basically. Okay, and then I just started doing like the fitness classes, and I was also drinking, and and I I lost a lot of what made me me. And I believe that everybody's an athlete. I believe that everybody, everybody needs to move, everybody can benefit from lifting heavy weights, like very specifically lifting heavy weights, not just going to the classes.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Yeah, that's a kind of one.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah, so number one is like go do that, because that has been the foundation for everything for me over the last couple of years, right? There's all these uh programs and courses and mentorships, and I've talked a lot about like how much money I've spent on. All of them. And they have all been transformational, but lifting weights every single day, five days a week, in a very specific way, eating the right food, getting enough sleep has been the foundation for everything else. Also, the other thing I would tell myself is to start posting on social media sooner. Although and I don't know if I talked about this a lot, but uh one of my mentors he says that entrepreneurship is the greatest self-improvement journey that you'll ever go through. And I believe that. And I only really started posting on social media like three years ago. And I started with in my stories, I posted some, and then now if you look like things are growing, things are moving. Ten years ago, if I would have posted on social media, it would have been a totally different thing. Like I don't I wouldn't have been the person that I am now, right? Back then. But would I have been if I would have lifted weights, been consistent on my health, and started posting on social media back then? Probably. But a lot of people seek, at least for me, I was seeking connection and relationships and fun and play. And also I feel like I deserve to be in the rooms. And social media and posting has given me that. If you live in a small town, like you can get out, the world is massive, and like not posting on social media is putting you into a a corner of isolation that I think is hard to get out of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah. I feel like the conversation around social media in general, because I feel like honestly, I'm more passionate about social media than I am almost anything else. Like, and it's so hard to explain to people the benefit of social media because it's not specifically tangible. Like I can't tell people like if you post on social media, you will get X outcome. But every single big opportunity that we've gotten, every single interesting person that we've met, every single unlock, it's all stemmed back to just showing up on social media. And so I just, you know, I think about like when you said, I don't know if I would have enjoyed posting on social media 10 years ago because of the version that I was. Even in that sentiment, it's like I have followed people online for a decade and I remember what they were like 10 years ago and then what they're like now. And I love the progression. You know, I I related to them when they were a dirt bag, and now I relate to them when they're like this buttoned-up individual. And so I think that like a lot of people will wait until they feel like they've gotten their shit a little more together to like feel like they are qualified to show up and give advice and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, it's like even if some of my favorite creators are people who are still in their early 20s who are just absolutely running around wild, and I'm like, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

And show up messy. That's a good that's a good point, is I do like I do like the younger creators right now. I think they're really creative, and there's these hybrid athletes that also like smoke cigarettes all the time. It's like this is the and it's just it really is just interesting, it's more funny than anything. Yeah, yeah. But I think people are afraid of what other people will think of them, yes, and what they don't realize is that by posting on social media, that's how you eliminate the fear. Yes, and that's how you create freedom for yourself because most of us are trapped by these fears that keep us small. And by putting yourself out there, feeling the effects and being safe and realizing that there are people out there that are just trolls, yeah, that nothing really matters, and that you get to go just create things and do things, like you become free. That's what freedom is is the ability to not care what other people think about you, to go create what you want to go create without fear of judgment or repercussion, even if those things may come, by it's so funny, by posting on social media, you create the confidence in yourself that allows you to just go operate in the world. Yes, beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah, well, and even in in our social media journey, it's like anytime that from a selfish perspective, I would say, anytime that I post about something that I otherwise would feel kind of shameful about, right? Like if it is something that's absolutely crashing and burning, failing in a situation that I shouldn't be in, whatever, when I post on social media about that and I get such a loud response of people saying I'm in the same situation or I've already gone through that, or like thank you for sharing that, it is the encouragement that I need to realize that I'm not sucking alone. Yeah. You know, like it almost has turned into like a lifeline to keep me going in this entrepreneurial game, knowing that like I'm not the messiest, you know, and that everybody else has this like fear around showing that mess, but then my DMs are just absolutely exploding with people who are like in the same exact situations.

SPEAKER_07 27:10

And so it seems to people react way more to the messy, yeah. Yeah, the messy, like the buttoned up, polished. Nobody likes that. I mean, it's it's beautiful, right? But it's like yeah, the messy is where people really interact.

SPEAKER_08 27:23

It's authentic. Yeah. And that's what people relate to, especially in this generation of social media, and it's like that is your personal brand, showing yourself, showing up as yourself authentically, yeah. Especially with like AI and stuff, yes, like being a true messy human in the messy human experience. Yeah, people are gonna be like, hell yes, I resonate with that, yeah, I fuck with that because that is me. That is me.

SPEAKER_07 27:51

Yeah, yeah. We're talking about we didn't want to do social media in our 20s, but we might be uber famous if people were messy. I I was messy. Yeah. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, my thing is always my parents, you know, like and my parents will watch this podcast, right? But I think that in the back of my head, I have such a high respect for the reputation that they've built, and that's not they've they've always been very buttoned up, right? Like they are just they were born buttoned up. They were born buttoned up, and so it's one of those things that I always try and like in the back of my head protect their their you know relationship or their perception for other people and trying to like carry on that buttoned-upness, but like they know I'm not as buttoned up as them, so I'm sure it's more in my head than it is anything else. But I wanted to go back to your first sentiment about how if you could give yourself advice 10 years ago, it would be to start lifting and and really focus on your health. And that's been a huge cornerstone in both of your content as you started showing up on social media. Why do you think that plays such a big role in your success now? Like, what has that, why do you consider that the foundation?

SPEAKER_08 29:00

For me, it was an identity shift. Um being vulnerable, like admitting things out loud that I was never able to admit before, showing up messy and like realizing that I didn't have all the answers, that I needed to get in community, that I had these goals, that I was gonna have to challenge my existing identity. My big goal for last year was I want a six-pack. I've never been able to say that out loud. That terrified me. And it was all of this conditioning that I had had my entire life of like, it's it's not in our family genetics. It's literally impossible. Um huge source of insecurity, and I was like, that's the biggest, loftiest goal I could ever imagine. The first time I ever told anyone, I burst out into tears. Like, I wouldn't even tell Cassidy about it because I was just like, that makes it real. Yeah, and I'm not ready to deal with that emotion. So even just like that piece of it, that very, very, very beginning piece felt so raw. And it needed, it was like a like a levy that broke through of like, oh, like this is healing, this is transformational, this is um such a bigger identity shift than just like checking a box.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yeah, the vanity side of it wasn't as as much of it as yeah, yeah, the mental side of it.

SPEAKER_08 30:26

There was so much.

SPEAKER_07 30:27

And you got the six pack.

SPEAKER_08 30:28

Yeah, I did, yeah. It's amazing. At the end of um October last year, 2025, was like that, was my big like reveal photo shoot. Cassidy took photos of me.

SPEAKER_07 30:41

No, you took those photos.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Okay, Cassidy in there yesterday, I can't even want to take one of my photos.

SPEAKER_07 30:52

We're not talking about that today.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Honestly, actually, I would recommend like even if you're not lifting weights or training, like yeah, like couples should go get a photo shoot together or like go take each other's photos in that way. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Like, I was talking to somebody else about that literally last night. Yeah. How powerful that is, but it was for their family as well. And they just were like, Yeah, it's such an important milestone. I know. That's what I was saying to them last night, is I was like, we were really good about that, and then we just not many with their shirts off, though. Not yet.

SPEAKER_07 31:19

No, not yet. Yeah, on the calendar. In fact, yeah, speaking of like speaking it out into existence, um, I haven't shared my journey this year, my my health journey at all on social media, mostly because I think what you just said, it's like turns real.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 31:36

And then all of a sudden, either you have to do it or you're a failure, right? And so that's scary, that's really scary. And so I showed, other than Sarah, uh a couple of photos that I've taken, I showed the very first person last night um a photo of my before and current, and they were like, Whoa, you know, they yeah, they're like, This is incredible. It's all because you've I've been talking about it this entire time we've been here. But for her to see it, she was like, Whoa, that's that's incredible, that's amazing. And I was like, Oh man, maybe maybe I could talk about it. Yeah, maybe I could on it.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

It's a big part of what you're doing right now, right? Especially, you know, with what you shared with me, you know, in more detail, I won't share it here. But if you want to share more about that, I think that's a big thing. I think there's a lot of men that need to see other not toxic masculine men, successful, open-hearted, funny, playful, like talk about their health journeys, and and it gives people permission to actually go do it.

SPEAKER_07 32:32

Health journeys are weird because every dude's different. You see a dude online and he's like, Wow, or I would like love to look like that, and then you find out maybe they are on some sort of enhancements, or it's geared. You just don't know, you know. So it is really tough looking online and seeing people and not knowing exactly what it is that they're doing. And you hear, at least for me, lately on social media, it's like three months of locking in. You know, it's like somebody that's overweight, 30% body fat, and then all of a sudden in three months they're like chiseled six pack. And I'm like, That's not how I look in three months.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

A lot of those people are coming off of a bulk. Yeah, yeah. So they've already built a ton of muscle, right? But they were bulking, so they're coming off a bulk, and or they're using some sort of uh hormone replacement, which is fine.

SPEAKER_07 33:17

I would just like for people to maybe say that disclaimer. Yeah, a small disclaimer. And there's nothing embarrassing or about that. Like, I just don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah, I don't care. I just don't want my reality to be determined off of that when I don't have a full.

SPEAKER_07 33:29

I look in three months in my photos, I'm like, okay, yes, I'm I'm impressed. However, I don't look like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

So to answer your question, because I could speak on like the fitness component for hours.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

You to show up to the gym five days a week, let's say three days a week, to lift as heavy as you can every single time, to actually physically change your body and to see the results over an extended period of time. Like I look different than I did 18 months ago. Yes, you do. Yeah, both of you are.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

My face shape has changed, my my structure, my muscles, my like how you both hold yourself, even when you're like subconsciously, your aura is different.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah, and so doing that builds the confidence to do anything.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

It you're forced to confront your limiting beliefs about yourself, about the world, about your own habits, about how hard things are, about your willingness to do what it takes. Because to do it in the way that we do it, it's called progressive overload. You literally have to lift a little bit more every single time to tear the muscle and build the muscle, right? And maybe you're not doing that, but and you don't have to do that, but that's really the way to change your body and change your life. To just show up to the gym and just kind of throw weights around. You're not gonna look any different, you're not really gonna feel any different.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Waste of time.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

That's kind of a waste of time, right? To to continually do this every day for a year, for 18 months, for 24 months, and to see the changes, it is a it is a perfect metaphor for anything that you actually want to do in life. If you want to build something sustainable, if you want to be a great father, a great husband, uh a great brother, if you want to be a great business owner, whatever you want to be in life, it is going to take uh daily consistent actions to create the long-term results that you're looking for.

SPEAKER_05 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

You can gain, let's just say you can gain five pounds of muscle a year. Maybe up to eight or ten if you're like really special or really pushing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

We'll talk about those results results later. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

But that means when you do the math, that's if you went every single day, seven days a week, that's about a fifth of an ounce of muscle every day. And that's why people don't do it. And that's why people don't do it.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

So think about how hard you have to work at the gym. And let's say you're doing 10 reps of every set. Those first eight or nine reps don't actually count. Right. Yeah. It's the very last rep that actually does the final tearing that then creates the extra growth in the muscle that then compounds over time.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah. And you feel the pain of being sore all the time. Like it's just something that is on top of mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 36:29

And almost if you like aren't sore, you almost you didn't do it right. Yeah. It's true enough.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

Yeah. My this morning, my body was very tired, and I'm like, do I need to take a week off to deload my body a little bit? Um, and I might need to do that. And that's also a metaphor. Like, when do you actually need rest? When do you need to pull back instead of just grow, grow, grow, grow, grow? There are so many metaphors about consistency, confidence. Like I have a metaphor that I use or a uh mantra that I use. This is where everybody stops. So with the podcast, there's so many moments, especially in the beginning. Memory cards, uploading, camera issues, microphones, everything. And in the in the moments where I'm like getting frustrated or like doing all those things and something's not working, I'm like, oh, this is where everybody else stops. Yeah. Like literally one little thing, a memory card doesn't upload, or it takes hours, or whatever, that's where everybody stops. Scheduling a guest, I don't have any episodes, what am I gonna do? I'd go record solo, I'd go reach out, but that's where everybody else stops. I love that. That's where everybody else stops. And the same thing as in the gym, like when you're looking at yourself, do I really have any more in the tank? Do I am I really giving it my entire effort? Am I finding my hundred percent? Everybody else stops after two weeks, or they just stop doing anything actual, like that's providing value or giving effort. And that's something that really helps me continue to go. But when you're when you're building habits, what you're actually doing is you're changing your identity. And I've like I said, I've literally seen my body and my face change. So my my identity has like literally changed.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

And when you build those habits, whatever it is, whether it's the gym, whether it's journaling every day, reading every day, the like getting to bed early and getting eight hours of sleep every day. Yeah. When you do those things over time, they're not just habits, they become your new identity.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

So if you want to change your life, you just change the things that you do and you do it consistently over time.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

So like the lifting weights has brought a new perspective on what it actually takes to be successful in the world. And I have such a greater like desire to do things for extended periods of time. And it's actually created something of like, do I want to do this? Am I willing to take 10 years to do this? Is this a big enough vision? Is this worth everything? And it gives me more focus and it actually allows me to think bigger because I know what it's what it's going to take to get to it. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

I think too, one point that you made about like you guys talking about toxic masculinity and like that being kind of a point of conversation internally in our conversations. I know that in between the two of us, I have always shied away from being gym rats in a way, because every other guy that I dated previous to Ethan was a personal trainer. And it was all about.

SPEAKER_07 39:28

I mean if you don't look at me and think personal trainer, you got you gotta get your ass checked.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

But for me, it was always like uh, I know I don't want that because I knew what it did to their ego. It put a chip on their shoulder. It wasn't creating them to become a better leader, it was creating something that allowed them to feel entitled, judgmental, better than, you know, it was just this like very negative outlook. And so when I met Ethan and it was this like light, airy, I don't care that you drink all the time, I don't care that we're going out to eat all the time, I don't care that you're misbehaving all the time. Whereas every other relationship I've had was like shame around anything that I wanted to do, and then just like this rigorous attitude around everything that I didn't want to do. When we started lifting, I just was like, I'm so scared that you're gonna turn into that, that that just comes with the identity of being in shape.

SPEAKER_07 40:23

It's been a discussion or two, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

It's been a discussion or two. And so I think it's so healthy from a woman's perspective as well to see men who are not stepping into this toxic mentality by getting into shape, and it in turn makes them better leaders. And so I know that like in this process of becoming more confident leaders, trusting ourselves, staying committed to the process of getting healthier, it also has like healed that side of my perception of men who are very in shape, where I was like, it may look good, but like inside it doesn't, you know. So that's been a big shift for me in this process as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:58

And I also think what's really cool, we're seeing a shift. Like, I believe like throughout history, kings or rulers, they were always like, especially in movies, you notice they're all fat, right? They're all really big. And even all the way up until here recently, like big tech CEOs and everybody that we look up to has always been overweight, unhealthy. Yeah, and and really, I guess the message that it sent to me is that to get to be hyper-successful, you have to sacrifice something. Typically, you see it's marriage, kids, family, but you also see that it's health. And I've seen here recently that shift, and you're seeing all the the big guys and girls um really focusing and taking care of their health and making that like the number one priority, and seeing that has just been like, oh, yeah, we can do that.

SPEAKER_08 41:47

Yeah, it's so refreshing. Yeah, it's so refreshing to see it like not only be a possibility, but also have this beautiful, healthy component to it of like what a balanced life looks like, what taking care of yourself looks like, investing in yourself, changing your identity, showing up in this new way that you previously have trauma around. Yeah, like it's just it's so refreshing and it feels so healing. And I'm honestly, I'm like really grateful that we're on the journey together, and even like our friends being on the journey together, like you guys, like it's so relatable. And I know that Sarah and I have like shared a few messages back and forth of like when we're in in our shit and we're like, this is really hard, I'm struggling with this. Yeah, the scale's hurting my feelings.

SPEAKER_07 42:36

Yeah, it likes to do that, doesn't it? It does, yeah, yeah, stop looking at it.

SPEAKER_08 42:41

Yeah, it's so helpful to have like that support when you're on this imp improvement journey, and there's so much wrapped into it.

SPEAKER_07 42:52

We like to think that us humans are so complex, but we're literally all the same. We're literally the same. Yeah, there's one my problems are only my problems.

SPEAKER_08 43:00

Everybody has them, and I can't talk to anyone about it.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Yeah, no, you would understand. Honestly, that's what helped me get sober was I I didn't do AA, but I there was a uh Reddit, subreddit called Stop Drinking, and I started reading it, and people share their stories in there, and I was like, Oh, I'm not unique. Yeah, like I'm not special, yeah, and it was really comforting to be like, oh, okay, like there's other people that feel the same way. Like the stories were different, some of them were the same, right? Yeah, yeah. But then there's a lot of different stories, but the the emotions and the feelings and the the internal thoughts were very similar. Uh, and so that gave me a lot of hope that I could that I could quit quit taking. And that that's true of anything that we're doing. And I know that when I get frustrated, when I get stuck, usually it's because I haven't vocalized what I'm feeling or why I'm stuck, or reached out for help, or asked somebody for help. And then as soon as I do, it's like, oh, I feel better, and I have a path forward, or or I just needed to let it out.

SPEAKER_07 43:57

It's such a bigger problem in your head, yeah. And the moment. You let it out, the response from somebody else is like, Oh, yeah, here. And you're like, dude, I've been sitting on this for weeks. Yeah. Why? Well, let's switch gears just a little bit. I had a really good talk with Fede this morning in regards to AI. He's obviously super just into it and uh infatuated with it. And I know at least you are as well, and see the value in there. Um, I know Sarah and I have really struggled a little bit with that in a sense that we don't know necessarily where we could or should plug into it. And so I know right now there seems to be we're at this weird spot in history where there's a lot of people that don't know what to do. Okay, what steps to take next. And so my question is is where do you guys think that aspiring entrepreneur entrepreneurs should be spending their time and energy in today's world?

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Ooh, uh well, fitness and um sobriety. Sobriety, everything we've talked about. Yeah, yeah. So everything that we've just talked about, literally, um, getting in community with regards to AI. What I did was I invested in a uh a weekend where it was completely heads down, dedicated to building, and it was a facilitated weekend. And I know that there's a lot of people that are doing these now. And the focus was to work on one thing and basically come out of the weekend with like one thing built. And I came out of the weekend with three things built because it was that easy. And when you sit down and you focus and you're in community and you have someone that's um helping you along the way, it was like super easy to actually go build something. Now, I I come from a tech background, like I was building computers when I was a kid, like, but I believe that anybody can do this. And I was talking to Bree from SummerLed last night and you know they did a time study to see how they could leverage their VAs more recently. And I'm like, screw that. Like, go pair your leaders with subject matter experts. And if you're a solopreneur, then you get to do this just on your own or with a partner or someone else that you know and go heads down for two days. Yeah, stop doing the work, block your calendar, get your phone. Yeah, and I went the open claw route because open claw allows you to build agents very easily. It'll you can communicate with it through WhatsApp, it can build things literally just by texting um my agent. I could I could literally build something right now if I wanted to. Um what a time to be alive. Yeah, like literally what a time to be alive. The other option is if you don't want to do open claw, Mac Mini, that whole thing, go um just through Claude. Claude is gonna be your your friend, and all you need to do, if you don't know what to do, ask it. Give it everything. And I would recommend getting Whisperflow. So sitting down in front of your laptop, not just on your phone, laptop with Whisperflow on your laptop, so you can just talk. You shouldn't be nobody should be typing anymore. Like you should just be talking. Ask, give Claude everything about your business, about who you are, get documents, give it access to your email, like read access so it gets context, feed it a ton of information, and then say, What can you build for me? Uh and like what are the top priorities that I should be focused on that you can eliminate from my day-to-day. And you just start asking it questions, and then when you're on your laptop, you have the option for cowork and cloud code.

SPEAKER_07 47:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Say, can you go build this for me? Right? So, like sales funnels, Instagram DM chats, scheduling things. Like it literally will schedule all my appointments through and it knows the colors and it knows exactly what to do. You gotta spend some time setting it up, but it's literally just talking to it. Yeah, especially with open claw, yeah. And if people are worried about like, oh, what other people are building stuff, or if Claude comes out with a skill, or stop, that doesn't matter. Like what's gonna happen is there's gonna be a democratization of everything, right? So social media has already democratized. Like, there's a million of us Airbnb influencers or real estate investors, like, but we all have our own audiences, right? And everyone has their own business, and so you get to go build things despite what someone else is building, even if it's identical. I bet Fede and I have built similar things already. For sure. But that doesn't matter. Yeah, we get to improve our businesses, and what AI is gonna do is it's gonna increase your capacity. So, like, if you're capped on revenue, if you're capped on clients, if you're capped on whatever, if you have a bottleneck or a ceiling, it's gonna increase your capacity to take on more. Or it's gonna reduce tension and create efficiencies right now. Those are the two main things that I think and also it will create new. So, like, I'm building AI tools that will be publicly available, but also as part of my community that will support real estate investors. My goal is to basically one click enable people to buy a short-term rental. That's where I'm gonna start. And they don't have to do anything essentially. And the AI agents will coordinate showings, will get you insurance, get you title, close, get you lending, right?

SPEAKER_07 49:21

The difference between where we started versus where it's at or going. And it's possible, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:27

It's possible. So I have an underwriter right now. It's on, it's live, it's on VOMCalc.com, velocity of money calc.com. Um, I built that as just for a free tool for people to use to be able to underwrite their short-term rentals in their boutique hotels, and then from there I'm just gonna keep building and keep building and keep building. Yeah, it's so easy and cheap and efficient, you should just be building. Yeah, just go create something.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Yeah. We were having this conversation with Fede this morning because he was like, you know, I've built so many things that I think I want to try and monetize. And part of my curiosity around AI in general is it's like, why would people buy it when they can build it? You know, like the second we kind of get our legs under us on understanding how to use AI, just like it, you know, we had to do with social media, for example. It's like, why would you like B Calc, for example? You just built B Calc for hotels and BNBs, and B Calc is something that they've been investing in for forever, they've you know marketed the whole nine yards, but now it's like someone, any one of us could just be like, okay, look at this, build it for me, you know. And and so do you think that there is a world where people are still selling technology in that way and monetizing things that they're building on AI, or is it going to turn into more of a I'll teach you how to build it because anyone can build it themselves, and now there is no need for programs for you know from from now until I let's say 18 to 24 months, yeah, it's gonna be everything and changing, and there's gonna be all of it.

SPEAKER_05 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

And then I don't know exactly what the stabilization will look like. There's gonna be some consolidation at the top, right? There's gonna be companies buying and consolidating technology, but the the truth still remains that there's two types of people in this world. There's the people that do, and there's the people that don't. And so that will still be true. Yeah, and AI can do a lot of things and will, but you also have the people aspect behind it that are they willing to build it. And you guys may find you don't want to build anything and you use FedA's stuff, and I think that's fine. Yeah, because your role or other people's role might not be to build. Yeah, I still think people should build, and then you understand it and you know what good looks like and all that.

SPEAKER_08 51:43

You even know like what questions to ask or what problems can be solved for you, just with the experience of like tinkering and figuring it out, but yeah, as far as like um what you were saying about like there are people that are gonna be building, but there's people that are just not going to build. Yeah, they will be looking to people that they relate to, people within their community, people that they associate with, and be like, whatever tool you're using, that's the one I want.

SPEAKER_05 52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 52:15

And it it's another part of like social media in a way. If you do decide to have that building aspect or have uh a toolbox of tools that you use for the people that build for you, yeah, it's gonna be just another like reference point of like I want the tool that Sarah and Ethan use. Right, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 52:33

I'm super excited to rewatch this episode in 18 to 24 months to see how right or wrong we were.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah, I also think that it increases the uh the value of the personal brand. Yeah, because it's like anyone can build the tool, that becomes much easier. And so the people with the best technology right now, maybe that's their edge because maybe they don't have the personality to like connect with people online in that way, and all of a sudden that's gonna reverse because it gives everybody else who's been more personable and less able on the back end to like build out these things to now build them and leverage their personal brand much more.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

That's really the way that I'm looking at it is like it's another value add for the community ecosystem. Yeah. Right. And so the vision for my community is not just to create financial freedom or enable people to buy short-term rentals, it's to be able to solve all the problems for real estate inside of the community and create an ecosystem. Yeah, right. So, like if I have the AI tools along with the personal brand and the experts, and I have my podcast where I bring in guests that have been on my podcast into the community, and my community members get to speak one-on-one with the podcast guests that I've had on. That's a value add. AI tools value add. Personal brand, like now, it's an ecosystem, it's not just a piece of software. Yes, right, and and I love B Calc, I use BNB Calc. Yeah, I use B Calc in the community, right? And so now, but now we'll be using my tool and and leveraging and then continue to build and iterate. The other thing is I just want to build.

SPEAKER_05 54:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Right. I just want to see what's possible.

SPEAKER_05 54:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Right. And then if I'm creating more financial freedom for people, if I can help people quit their jobs and go live the life that they want, and it's through a piece of software, and I think that that's possible, I'm gonna I'm gonna go do it. Yeah, I'm gonna go do it. Yeah, and that's part of the whole transformation I've been through. Like, I I could sit with all these fears and rumination about is someone else gonna build this? Is it gonna make money? BB Calc exists, air DNA, blah blah blah, like hostar. I don't care. Yeah, I'm gonna go build it. I'm gonna go build it, and we're gonna go see what happens. There's never been a better time to do it.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yeah, yeah, you have to have that almost artist mentality about it because otherwise it's overwhelming and it feels like what's the point?

SPEAKER_04 54:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

I know that we have gone back and forth in the conversations around AI because it's like everyone is in this frenzy. Like this, oh my gosh, I have to learn this new thing, like that time is of the essence. Like that there's just this like chaotic energy around what do I need to be paying attention to right now? But I think when you approach it in a way of like, I'm a builder, I'm a I'm a creative, like I'm just this is an extension of my play. Then it turns into something that's like not overwhelming, not stressful, not anxiety-ridden. It's yeah, it's such a better way to approach this shift that everybody's experiencing.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

It's part of the work that I've done in detaching myself from the results. Yeah. Right. And when you can detach yourself from the results, but still maintain a focus on your goals, especially with a purpose. Yeah. If you have a purpose and you're like, okay, I think I want to go do this thing, you know that it's gonna take a while to fulfill your purpose, or you're fulfilling your purpose along the way. So, whatever the outcomes are that you're trying to achieve, you can't guarantee, anyways. But if you're driven by purpose and you say, I'm gonna choose this vehicle for my purpose, then you get to go do that, and that's how you then go discover everything else in life. Yeah. Right? You can't connect the dots looking forwards, you can only connect the dots looking backwards. Yeah. And so if you're trying to achieve a very specific result, try to do that. But also detach yourself from the results and like just go build and go create, and then you'll see the things that open up for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Yeah. Yeah, being results driven, because I think both of us, like me, especially being like oldest daughter, high achiever, all the things, it's like I am so attached to the result because I get stuck in this one thing where I'm like, this is the goal. I'm not going to quit until this goal is achieved. And then the bar moves every single time. And then it's just this like wheel that I've I've found myself on over and over and over again, where it just doesn't feel like I'm at a place where I can celebrate my own wins or feel good about the progress that I've made because I all of a sudden am introduced to somebody who's further along, or whatever the case may be. And I think even some of the conversations that we have had, it's like, I have reached a point now where I'm like, I am on my own timeline. You cannot rush me, you cannot tell me what to do. I am no longer motivated by that. And that's been a big shift in between us and our conversations as well, where we're just like, what we're searching for, even if it's unclear, is searching for us just as hard. And we're trying our best and we're being creative and we're putting our best foot forward. And at the end of the day, that is enough. If we don't have to do that, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

That's what people don't understand. They think that it's something different, that entrepreneurship or business ownership or free like that it's something different. What you just described is what it is. Yeah, yeah. That's the journey, that's the thing, and it's all required to get you to where you actually want to be. Yeah. And then while you're on the journey, you sit in gratitude. Yeah. You take moments of gratitude, you be present. Yeah. Like literally, you have to. It's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

It's it's so simple, but so hard. It's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Yeah. But like we were working nine to five, and now we're just like going hanging out with our friends, we're going to these conferences, yeah. What is it? Podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Hanging out. Yeah. Not going to work and logging in. You're so good. And trying not to feel guilt about that or like that is the strangest thing.

SPEAKER_07 58:07

We worked for this, then you get it, and you're like, I feel guilty.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:11

Isn't that weird?

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:12

What's the guilt?

SPEAKER_00 58:14

I don't know. It just, I think it's just the high achiever in both of us.

SPEAKER_07 58:18

You can see then you log online and somebody's doing something, and you're like, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Yeah. Again, I think it's like the narrative you create in your head about what you expect it to look like.

SPEAKER_07 58:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

And then it doesn't look like that.

SPEAKER_07 58:29

And maybe you don't deserve this.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

Yeah. And so all of a sudden you're like, am I doing this right?

SPEAKER_07 58:33

Or like, is this what it's Should I be doing more now that I'm doing less?

SPEAKER_00 58:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:38

Now that I've been able to clear my calendar, like that's what the goal was. We talk about freedom. Now that it's cleared, I'm like.

SPEAKER_02 58:46

You don't necessarily feel any different, really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 58:49

And that's the big thing that I just had a conversation with my coach about the other day was that I spent six years grinding. Yeah. Building homes, purchasing two homes a year while working my first full-time job.

SPEAKER_07 59:04

And if nobody's done the two homes alone, madness like plus a full-time job. Yeah. Plus marriage.

SPEAKER_08 59:13

Yeah, getting it all the properties online, managing the operations of the growing portfolio. It was so much that like I took a year, basically like last year off. And um I had a conversation with my coach the other day, and I was like, I have this guilt about me not grinding as hard as I have been grinding for the last five, six years. But it's so strange because while I was doing that grinding, I was like, I'm like thinking to future self. I'm like, I'm doing this for you. So you can relax. So you can host your family, so you can like have the nieces and nephews like come swim in the pool. And here I am, like sitting in the reality of it of like I'm not doing enough, I'm feeling guilty, I'm not worthy. All of these conversations where I really did have to take a step back. And like one morning, all I did on a trail run on that same trail that we took you guys on. I was totally thinking about you guys, was like gratitude for like 90 minutes on my trail run. I was just like, I'm grateful for this, I'm grateful for this, I'm grateful for this because it's so easy to be caught in the I'm not doing enough.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:39

And what a shift that would do, just if we all practice that a little bit more. Yeah, because I don't do that near enough. Yeah, I'd rather just sit in a we're still talking words. 6 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Yeah, I like literally say things out loud. Like, I'm grateful for this. I'm grateful for this. Like, say it out loud. It works, it keeps you in the present, and because that's literally all we have, and when you detach yourself from results, you're able to say more in the present, but still pursue the goals and the dreams. Because like life is too fucking short to just be always in pursuit and not being grateful, yes, or not being present. Because if you're just always in pursuit, which we are like we are like high achievers, like and really at a basic level, human nature. Yes, yeah, we're growing we're growth human, like we're both beings, like that's that's what we're built on. That's why the economy is built the way that it is. Um, yeah, but to sit in gratitude and presence more often will give you the peace that you're seeking, even if just for that day or that moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Yeah, be where your feet are. I have a friend that always tells me that as I'm like spiral, I'll always go to her when I'm spiraling about something. That's always her sentence back to me is like, be where your feet are. Yeah. I'm like, yes, I've heard I hear you. That's harder than it should be. Yeah. Um, one thing that I want to shift this conversation to, because we haven't talked about Airbnb a whole lot in this conversation, but that really has been kind of the foundation of how we got connected, how we've built these lives. And online right now, I have had so many conversations at this conference about how there is such a different narrative around Airbnb from when this conference started in 2021 or 2022 versus now. And now there is such a, it feels like Airbnb is a controversial topic where you've got a lot of big influencers that are saying, don't do it, it's dead, it's not where you should be spending your time, it's a waste of time. And then you've got people who maybe bought into that a little bit and then are realizing that it's not dead. And like from your guys' perspective of being very hyper-involved and trying to understand that shift, what's your take on Airbnb and the role it should play in people's lives today?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:49

Yeah, there is so many different ways that you can make money through investing in real estate. And it can be some of it can be a distraction, but choose one that like aligns with your values and that you feel like you can successfully enter the market and and do a really great job. Like for us, it was short-term rentals because we started very, very small by renting out our spare bedroom in our two-bedroom, one bath for $35 a night. And then from there, it was okay, that's when it clicked. That's when we gained the confidence to then go purchase a single family home for the sole purpose of this is an investment. We're gonna be the best in the market, um, we're gonna be heavily design focused and um blow everyone out of the water and see what we can like really do. Um and that was such a huge um unlock for us of what potential there was. And so it was just an the next transition of okay, how do we how do we improve? How do we build? How do we continue to just rinse and repeat this same thing? And for us, it was not only it was the cash flow of like you're just naturally going to make more money per night than you will on a short-term rental than you will with like a midterm or a long-term rental. So number one was the cash flow. Number two was the tax benefits because Cassidy and I were both working our W-2 jobs, and to be able to get to the end of the year and do the cost segregation and depreciation and not owe any taxes by the end of the year when we had like good jobs, yeah, that was incredible. That was life changing, life changing.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

Life changing.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:43

Life changing. You you think about what your biggest bills are, and you're like, oh, yeah, I guess it's my my car and my house, and what this membership. No, it's your tax bill. Yes. It's your tax bill and you forget about it. But investing in real estate is such a huge way where you can legally get to the end of the year and be like, I don't owe any taxes. So that was the second reason, and then reason three is just the being able to like have an asset that appreciated so much better than um having money in the stock market or something like that. We had the ability to take that asset and then either take money out on it and go purchase another home, or um or let it sit for a while and have that be our little mess egg and have that be our security blanket and do the things that we want it to do. Like this and starting investing in Airbnb has truly allowed us the freedom to then figure out what our dreams are and what our purpose is, and how we can live our truest, most authentic life. Help other people do the same thing. So if someone is like interested in getting out of the trap that they're currently in, short-term rentals is like it's such a game changer. One purchase can literally change your entire life and the entire trajectory that you're on. And it doesn't take as much money and capital as you might think that it needs to get started. And um and things will always ebb and flow with Airbnb, and you do have to be mindful of different trends. Gone are the days where you can just throw up your spare bedroom with GoPro photos from the corner of the room where it looks like you're on a freaking security camera. That was us. Gone are the days where that's gonna work. Thankfully. So you do have to be mindful of what is working today. Yeah, what's working? And wellness is such a huge component that if you're like, I'm gonna be design focused, I'm gonna have a wellness component with great amenities, um, like you can you can literally change your life in just one property.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:20

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

Yeah, the influencers that are saying Airbnb's dead are selling you either hotels or RV parks or something else, right? Like, and that's fine. And most Airbnbs, I think Bree from Summerlet told me a stat last night. 70% of Airbnb's revenue comes from the top 20% of listings. Whoa. Yeah, damn. Yeah, so yeah. So what that means is you get to differentiate yourself from everything else. That's what we've done. That's what everyone on stage, that's what everyone's sharing on social media, that's what they've done is they differentiated themselves. And even now, a lot of the design companies they're getting into a trap where they're not differentiating the properties anymore. Yeah, right. And so the owners are not in the top 20% potentially.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

So I believe the way that we teach Airbnbs in our community, where we help people um get out of their jobs or just buy the best Airbnbs they can, is not just to buy turnkey, throw some waifair furniture in there. I believe the essentially a luxury flip to short-term rental, like what you're doing on the Black Pearl, is S-tier investing for people. For the majority of Americans that are working a regular job, they're making $150,000 to $200,000 a year or more, they will have the ability to quit their job if that's what they want to do within 18 to 24 months by renovating a high-value property in a high-value neighborhood, furnishing it the right way, designing it the right way, turning it into Airbnb, and owning that thing for five years because they will eliminate their tax bill. You're able to buy in better neighborhoods than you can with long-term rentals or any other asset. You own the entire thing, you can get lending on it, it happens fast, right? So, like to me, it's S-tier investing. No other vehicle for wealth for the average American exists, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:17

Ooh, say that one more time.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

No other vehicle for building wealth for the average American exists other than this model. That specific model. You can go buy an Airbnb that's not going to cash flow if you just literally want the tax benefits, and that's fine. But Aaron gave a great answer of like forcing appreciation, creating equity, which will then give you the cash flow that you're looking for. You have to do a little bit of work. But my opinion is that and I haven't talked about this enough, but if you are a married couple and one person is making $100,000 or less, they should quit their job and go be a full-time real estate professional. Yes. Because with one Airbnb that will pay for in just the tax savings alone, that one Airbnb will pay that $100,000 of salary. Depending on what the other spouse makes. But if you become a full-time real estate professional, you quit your job, you just gain 40 to 50 hours back a week, you could have an Airbnb live in three months and have created multiple six figures of value on that one property in three months. Yeah. And then you can spend more time with your kids, you can spend more time with your spouse, so you can be nomadic, right? Like I I this is like my message to people. Like, I this is like the new American dream. One spouse works, go make your tech money, go make your AI money, go make your doctor dentist money, do it as long as you can, and then the other spouse is just buying Airbnbs or whatever they want to buy. Yeah, but they're doing luxury flips, they're creating millions of dollars of equity, they're paying zero dollars in taxes, they spend more time together as a family. Like, this is it, everybody. Yeah, this is it. Yeah, and so the whole Airbnb conversation is like go do what you know how to do. You gotta trust yourself, go differentiate yourself, real estate fundamentals.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

Equity first, real estate fundamentals.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Yeah. Well, and I think too, like the conversation that Ethan and I had years ago, and we didn't really understand how this was gonna play out, is when Ethan was building the insurance agency, it was like, you make the money, I make the money grow. And that has just been a sentence that we have said over and over and over again that I feel like people need to implement into their lives. Because when we first started an Airbnb, we thought Airbnb was gonna be the thing that made us rich. What we didn't understand is that it's not necessarily the thing that makes you rich, but it allows you the space and time to figure out the thing that is aligned with yourself that will make you rich. And so that was such a we didn't see that coming. And I feel like that's the conversation internally with the people who have been in Airbnb for a minute and do have a portfolio that all of a sudden let them quit their W-2. Or they're like, okay, we have these Airbnbs and we appreciate the thing that Airbnb has done for us, but now we're spending our time somewhere else that aligns with our passions, is fulfilling our purpose because we can. And it it isn't it isn't the path that I thought this was going to take us on, but it is the path that everybody is on. And I feel like that's not the conversation that a lot of us are having online and screaming from the mountaintops being like, this isn't the thing that'll make you rich. It'll give you the space to figure out what the thing is that will make you rich.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

That's funny because that's exactly what I teach at the community. And I call it escape velocity because it's the velocity you need to get out of whatever situation you're in right now, and then create the platform of safety, security, equity, cash flow to then go live the life that you want to go live. Yes. And go figure out what the next thing is. Yes. That's what so we've all seen it now. That's what we're all doing because we're all like dabbling in other things now. We're still buying properties, but we bought a hotel, and I'm still like, I don't know, short-term rentals are like still the thing that I love and are like the fastest way to go do that. Yeah. And it allows me to go do other things.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:13

And we would have never, Cassidy would have never been able to start his podcast had we not built this up. And it's not, it's not like, oh my god, yeah, we're so rich, but the time and the freedom and the um the value that it provided with just quality of life and like the ability to chase dreams. Cassidy has had the idea to have a podcast for years. He's wanted to be on YouTube for years. The thing that made it happen was like us investing in ourselves and investing in Airbnbs so that way we could invest in like what it takes to build an incredible podcast. And like, same thing for me to quit my W-2 job and have the ability to like take in, add three people to our family in this last year.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:05

And that would have that would have never even been a possibility had it not been for Airbnb. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:15

So I think the message here is for people in this space, Titans in this space, if you will, all agree that yes, Airbnb is still alive and well in 2026. What I think a lot of people might say is, because we're all saying gone are the days where we can rent a space, a bedroom, where we can list a photo and it's horrible and somebody will rent it. So somebody might say it's more competitive. And I might, my rebuttal towards that might be, yes, it is more competitive. However, when we started, we didn't know what would work. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:49

There was no mentorship, there was no advice online.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:53

Now there are so many people in this space that can literally tell you, look at where you're looking and say, in order to be successful, you need to spend this much on this property to do these things, and then boom. That did not exist. So, no, gone are the days, of course, of taking a photo and listing it and renting out a bedroom. But here are the days where you can literally plug in with you know a mentor and and then be told exactly what it is that you need to be doing to get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:23

And that that can also be a trap, is like here's exactly what to do. Sure. But like when we when I run comps in the community for the the members, we go into any market and I'm able to identify where the gap of the market is. Right. Right, you could very easily just by searching on Airbnb, look at okay, who like how many guests are they sleeping, who has a hot tub, who doesn't, like, are there listings that have shitty photos? Like, there's very simple things that you can go do to go dominate in a market. Yeah. Literally just go search Airbnb for flexible dates, yeah, a weekend across a bunch of months. That's what I do. Airbnb, pick a city, flexible dates, you get to see every listing, you get to see what comes at the top, you get to see how many people are sleeping or not sleeping, you get to see how terrible the photos are, you get to see the lack of amenity, the lack of care, the there's no top 10%, 5% listings in a market. Right? Like, it's actually very easy, in my opinion, to go create a product that can go dominate a market. Even in markets like San Diego, Austin, like upstate New York, like Maddie and Skylar are doing, like, these established markets, you just get to go figure out what resonates with you and go create the best version of you in a property, and weave in some very simple data points about like hot tub, sauna, cold plunge. You know, like, you know, like it it's not as it's not as hard as people make it out to be. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:47

Yeah, yeah. I think the narrative is intimidating online about how the competition has increased, but it just feels like the risk is lower because you have the data points, because you have the support, because you have people who have been trailblazers in the space. And so, yeah, I would say it's almost easier to get in now than it was in the past because you really get a clear understanding of what works and what doesn't.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:06

I wanted to make that clear. I just wanted people that listen to this know that like now. Yeah, it's not impossible. Yeah, we're still bullish, you guys are still bullish. Oh, yeah. Like, let's roll. I'm glad people are saying no. Great. Yeah, yeah. Let's scoop up more. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, let's wrap this up with one more so we can uh get you guys out of here. Um it's gonna it's a little different one. Sarah came up with this one. It's funny as I read these questions and she's like, all right, you do number two, four, and six. I look at the questions, I'm like, okay. Um like the questions I asked. Yeah, I was like, it's interesting. But uh the question is in the end of this journey we call life, what do you guys hope that you're known for?

SPEAKER_08 1:17:52

What are you trying to make us cry?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:55

I want tears. It's a free-for-all.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:58

Uh can't be.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:01

And it doesn't necessarily have to be that deep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

You started. Go.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:06

She said um first. Yeah, you did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

She's like the girl with six-pack abs, obviously.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:13

Tombstone. It's just a chiseled six pack. She's as chiseled as this tombstone, is what I want it to say. Hard as a rock deal. Um I would say generosity and just um yeah, generosity and my love for family and friends. That's like like truly the reason that we started this whole journey was like when Cassidy asked me that question. It's like, I want to host a family, I want to host friends. And as someone who has grown up with a very scarce mindset of like, I have to hold it all so closely to me, otherwise it will disappear. Uh the ease and the and the freedom that I feel, being able to like bring people in and host people and share experiences is life-changing. Like it is healing for me and and my life and my trauma to be able to invite people in and feel a generosity that I've never been able to feel before, and I want that to continue to grow.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:32

Or maybe that was never given to you.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:35

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

She wasn't gonna feed people at our wedding.

unknown 1:19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:40

She was like, we're not feeding people at our wedding. I'm like, yes, we are.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:44

I just I suggested pizza, if anything. We had a pizza at the wedding, we had a pizza truck, it's perfect. It was really nice, yeah. Well, pizza truck's fancy. I wasn't even going that far.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:52

Yeah, we were like, little Caesars, hot fed, five dollars. My mom was like, no, plated meals all the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

But just a testament to, and especially being in the hospitality industry, for her to like be at that level of like, I'm not spending money for people to eat. They can da da da.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:09

For a destination, an island destination wedding. My first reaction was, we are not feeding people. So a pool.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

What? Yeah. That's that shows your growth. Show a pool. That shows your growth.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

Like that was just a layer of trauma, a layer of inauthenticity of who she truly is. Who she truly is is someone that wants to give give love. Yeah. Yeah. And that's really shown through in the last few years.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:34

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:35

For me, uh, I want to be known for being playful, passionate, vulnerable. I want to be known as a great husband, a great father to these nephews. We can tell the story later. Bonus father. Yeah, bonus father, yeah. Uh I want to be known for changing people's lives, for creating freedom for people. Like literally giving people permission to go live their true purpose. I think for some reason I've been tapped or given a gift or a calling or whatever has been placed on me, and there's something about me that is inside of me, and the way that I'm able to connect and resonate with people, it's my purpose to go create freedom for people. That's it. Love it.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:24

And you're doing great at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:26

Yeah, I think that we feel that from you guys, right? Like even from our very first interaction before you guys were really showing up on social media. And I just remember leaving that first interaction with you guys and feeling that permission, you know, and even staying with you guys and being in an era where we still had all of our vices and feeling welcomed, loved, accepted, and seen through all of that. You know, it's it's one of those things that I think that you guys do really create a space that allows people to be right where they're at while still encouraging them to step forward into something better. And so you guys definitely have a gift for that. So you're on the right track.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:01

I'll send you.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:03

Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for this conversation. I'm sure it is going to inspire people. It for sure inspired me. So um, for all of our listeners, thanks for uh listening in again. We'll catch you next time.