We Were Wrong About Airbnb. Here's What We Learned After 5 Years.

For years, we believed Airbnb investing was the fastest path to building wealth.

After renovating multiple properties, navigating changing regulations, spending more than we ever had on our latest lake house, and building businesses alongside real estate... our perspective completely changed.

In this episode, we're sharing the lessons we wish someone had told us five years ago.

We talk about:
• Why we spent 2.5× more on our newest Airbnb, Black Pearl
• The luxury upgrades that were actually worth every dollar
• The expensive mistakes we'd never make again
• Why we're shifting our focus from buying more Airbnbs to building cash-flowing businesses
• The truth about real estate, cash flow, taxes, and long-term wealth
• Launching Black Pearl and its first booking results
• Why we left Michigan and moved to Texas
• What's next for us and our businesses

This isn't an anti-Airbnb episode.

It's an honest conversation about how our mindset has evolved after five years of building, investing, and learning the hard way.

If you're an entrepreneur, Airbnb host, real estate investor, or someone trying to build financial freedom, we hope this episode helps you avoid a few of the mistakes we made.

🎙️ Subscribe for more conversations on entrepreneurship, real estate, design, business, and building a life you're proud of.

Hosted by Ethan Glidewell & Sarah Glidewell 

You can view the video & audio version on our Youtube Channel 

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And so it's the first time that I've ever built anything that I haven't felt like I'm selling myself for. It just feels like, you know, the first five years of me being entrepreneur, an entrepreneur were very ego-centered. Like I was the special snowflake in my business. And I you know, everybody probably goes through that era. Um, I have exited that era, you know?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah. And so that feels too is taking a step back and empowering others.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

And letting them figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

All right. Well, welcome back to another episode of Design to Glide Well. Uh, we have another episode with just Ethan and I. It's been two months since it's been the two of us.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

It's been that long already.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

It has been that long already, and a lot's happened.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

It's giving people what they want.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I know. Honestly, I've posted the last four episodes where we've been interviewing other people, and I keep getting DMs of people being like, we're ready for another episode of Ethan and Sarah. Like, that's a compliment. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

That's cool. Take it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah. Um, the last two months have been a whirlwind.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Yeah. Yeah. To say the least. I don't know if you can see, but I don't have much hair anymore. Lies losing it all.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Literal lies. All the men out there who are actually losing their hair are like, shut up.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Guess I need to be sensitive towards them.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Um, yeah, wow. It has been a whirlwind though. So I think on today's episode, we're gonna go through catching up on what the last two months has looked like. Yeah. Um I want to touch base on launching the Black Pearl.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Oh yeah. Yeah, that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Wrapping up that year-long project and finally, literally, and finally letting it go live. Um, I want to cover the fact that we moved across the country on a whim again. Um, and I kind of want to talk through the fact that you decided to take a J-O-B. Um, and where we're on in street sweeping, and you know, kind of an update on your life. Uh, and then if we have time, I want to talk through a little bit of uh studio host and the fact that it's been six months since we launched that side of the business and how that's going. So um, so there's Yel's preview to take a look at what's coming in this episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Let's dive into Black Pearl.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah. Um, yeah. So I mean, if you guys have been following us on social media, you are very familiar with the Black Pearl. Um that B was the longest renovation that we've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

We bought it what?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

I think it was August.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

August of 2025.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah, which means we like started looking in like June. Yeah. Um, and then we're under that 1031.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

And we thought we had time and we didn't, and so we had to scramble.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

I think it was August.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, I think it was too August when we bought it and then closed in September or No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I think we closed in August.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um, but we were working on the lake property, and so our GCs didn't start for two months.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So we paid mortgage two months before anybody ever set foot in there.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

But I will say we went into that project being like, we're not rushing this one. Like we have done the how fast can we do this? Yes, how many GCs can we get in here? It's more about speed than quality, time and time again. And we just on this one were like, no, this is gonna be our baby.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, and looking back, it all worked, it was timed perfectly. Um I think maybe the the last time we we spoke or we recorded, we were in the middle of it, maybe it towards the end.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yeah, we were recording in February, was the last time that we recorded because I recorded all four of those podcasts in March.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Okay, so we were in the middle of it. Plus we're in the middle of winter, so we probably didn't have anything good to say. But now that we're outside of that, and we've got a few bookings since then. Yeah, we could probably speak in a little bit more positive light. Now we're good. Now we're good. Now all the things we said earlier, we didn't actually mean it.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

We're in our healing era.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, yeah. You gotta, I I truly believe when you put a B and B together, uh at least a few months after you put it together, there's that little love-hate relationship, like there's trauma, um, and you just have to kind of step away from the property for a little while. Unfortunately, for us, uh, we launched right in the busy season. So there's been no stepping away. In fact, it's leaning into operations, all the operations, all the questions, uh, both from guests and management. Um, and so it hasn't been at one of those that we can really take our foot off the gas. But I think maybe we separated with distance. And so that's really helped out quite a bit as well. So we can't just run up there and help out at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah. I think to give the listeners a little perspective on how fast we moved, just as a couple in general, when we finished Black Pearl, we literally finished renovations, like finished wrapping up all of the tiny bits and bobs to get it ready on the 12th of June. We hosted our first guest on the 12th. We decided to open those three days up, like on the 11th, because we knew we were gonna be done by the 12th. Yeah, got a booking for the 12th, and then we drove to my parents' house, unpacked all of our stuff from the Black Pearl, packed up a suitcase worth of stuff each, yeah, and then started driving to Texas on the 13th.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

That's right. That's right. Just we ran.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Yeah, we sprinted away from that property.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, we were pretty dead by Monday. I mean, we took what a day and a half to get here, and yeah, yeah, no extra curricular stops or anything. We just came on straight down and I don't think we moved out of bed like Sunday or Monday.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

No, I don't think we did either. I think we just were horizontal. Let's talk about Black Pearl.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I mean, gosh, she turned out beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

I'm so proud.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I'm so proud. Yeah. Um, a couple of things that I want to cover on the Black Pearl is we spent two and a half X what we normally spend on properties.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, okay. Speaking of the trauma earlier that I mentioned, I'm not over that part. Um yeah, that part's the hard part to get over. I still haven't done the math. I don't know if you've done the math. I really was just gonna let that time let time heal that wound before I really dug into it. Or let Cheyenne tell us what a what the damage was.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah, we'll find out. Taxes 2026.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Yeah. What what I consider a win talking about money was how organized we were as far as using the correct bank account. So shout out to Cheyenne. I know she's gonna love hearing that. Um, but as far as I know, I'd say 90, maybe even 95% of all expenses put to that house or towards that house were put under either the right credit card or the right bank account. So that's my win. With the res most of them, not the Amazon. That's ridiculous. So that's my win when we talk about money.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah. So anyway, yeah, we were way more organized on this one than anyone previous.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah. Um 10th times a charm.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Dude, you've got two visionaries trying to do operations, and it's just both of us are like, you even mention receipts, and both of us are fighting.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Oh my gosh. I know the actual second Cheyenne hears that part where I just said she's gonna be rolling her eyes and go, No, we didn't. It may have done 60% best, best. I'm over like, we did perfect.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, we passed this time, didn't we? Cheyenne's like, no, you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

You literally have done worse than you've ever done. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

But I mean, we splurged on that property, like we spared no expense. Yeah. Um, and I mean, we have said for years, like, especially on client projects, we never ask our clients to put money into something that we haven't tried ourselves. And so with this one, it's like we our client projects have gotten better and better, and we've gotten to watch those perform or outperform expectations over and over. And so on this one, we were just like, we had to sell two properties because the regulation changes, and instead of reallocating that into two other properties, we were like, let's roll it all into one and just have one beautiful, well done. No expenses, no skimping on expenses property.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

So now, after having gone through a property where you're not pinching pennies like we have on past ones, what is a splurge on the black pearl that you would say I would do that again and again and again now that I've done it?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Uh I mean, obviously the sauna that's really cool, right? If anybody hasn't seen that, that custom sauna with the big one window or big glass facing the lake, it catches the sunset, so we're on the sunrise side, so we get to watch the sunsets at night while in the sauna. Great. Um you know, obviously the backyard build-out was probably one of my favorite things that we did. But I guess the only reason we did that was because we had to tear up the entire backyard. Um, and so we did sod. Um, you know, we planted a bunch of plants, added drainage. We added a drainage to get all the water away from the house. The overshower in the convent. Yeah, we dug that three foot down, put all the drain tiles and things in there, um, which caused us to bring in equipment and tear up that entire backyard. So I was really pushing for not spending that last, I think it was like $15,000 on that backyard with the plants and the grass and everything like that. I was pretty okay and pretty tired at the time. And so I just wanted to leave it at dirt, throw some seed down, and do you know, do the bare minimum there. But um unbeknownst to me, um, Sarah talked to the landscape guy when I wasn't around and asked what sod had cost, would cost, and gave her a price. So I'd throw on a spot. She took it. So I didn't know we were getting sod until sod rolled up.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

He knew. I mean, I was just BSing with the boys.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

And he was like, Look, you've done such a nice job with this place. He was like, You really need to put down sod. And I was like, if you say so.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, no, he he made the right call. You both made the right call. Um, I was like, again, you're just at the end of that project, and you're just looking at that bank account going down, down, down. You're like, my goodness, are we ever gonna finish and are we ever going to launch?

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Dude, every day it's another $2,000, $4,000. Minimum.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah. Another contractor, like, hey, you owe this, and you're like, hey, I told you it's gonna be $2,000, but it's actually $6,000. And I'm like, how? All the what are you change orders that Sarah did? I'm like, oh, here we go. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

I was like, so we need to start getting change orders approved before you know what's frustrating to me when it comes to change orders, though, is it's like you tell them the vision of what you want, whether it be a kitchen build-out, a bathroom build-out, whatever. And I'm just like, okay, if you're a GC who has done this time and time again, like you know all the steps that are gonna go into doing this. But it's like you you quote the absolute bare minimum, and then when I want you to get the job, and then when I want you to finish it, yeah, all of a sudden you're like, oh, well, that's a change order, and I'm like, well, it's literally not done.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

It really isn't, unless you do what you need to do. Yeah. Like why I love our team. Our team was great. We had a fantastic team from electricians to plumbers to con to GC, or just I guess builder, um, to landscapers to dock people. We had an ect to gutter people, we had an excellent team.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Yeah. Everyone we worked with.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

That's the frustrating part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Everyone we worked with on this one.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

There was no one on the defining done is is hard to do. Yes. With contractors.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yes. I also think that, and we have uh felt this on other projects as well. Michigan is not a state that is well-versed in luxury.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Middle of Michigan, at least.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Middle of Michigan, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And so when we're asking people asking GCs, plumbers, electricians, whatever, to do something, when you talk about the definition of done, it's like their definition of done for everyone else is Does it leak? Yeah, it's like Does it work? Functional, not pretty.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

You know? Um, and so I I just have like there just is that disconnect of just not having that expectation from the clients anywhere else, uh and the GC being able to get away with it.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Um and so that's something that we, you know, constantly are harping on the GCs for. But I thought for sure you didn't say the splurge that I thought you were gonna say. I thought you were gonna say the blower.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Dang. Okay, let me start over. Edit this out. Oh my gosh, I'm so yeah, no. Uh, it's been a busy day. Been in the sun too long. Um, losing my voice. Uh, yeah, okay. So again, we're under 1031, and we thought we had a bunch of time, and we misunderstood what that meant. And basically, we had a week to buy a house.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Uh otherwise house that had regulation for Airbnb that was in the right price range, that was on a lake, that was, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

All the things, right, at the end of the season, right? And so it was it was moved or middle of the season, right? Everybody sells their house in September. Nobody sells their lake house in July.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Um, and that's what June and July when we were looking. So uh we had to find something. We found this house. We spent zero time really actually looking at the landscaping, looking at the lake, at the water, anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Um beggars couldn't be choosers. That's not.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

And by the time you and me really got on site, snow was on the ground, and there was i you know, the the the lake froze over. And so we just really had no clue what the lake looked like. Um, and then of course we moved in, I think, in April, um, when it was when we were able to uh live in there while the contractors were there, and we started looking out in the in the water, and I'm like, golly, that is like if you don't know me, I'm scared of water. I don't like water, I don't want to get in water, but um, if it's clear water or really clean water, I'll at least get my like legs in there.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah. Um torch like vibes or nothing.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I would never get in that water, and uh really stunt because at that time the house was really starting to come together, and we're starting all the money we were spending, all the pieces were finally uh getting put together, everything was built back, uh getting built back together, and you just see this beautiful house. And at the time before the lawn was tore up, beautiful lawn and beautiful sauna, everything was just gorgeous. And then you turn and look at the water, and it sucked. Yeah, it was mucky, it was so seaweedy, lily pad covered. And then the neighbor comes over, it's like, oh dude, this is gonna be all tore up, like all gross come summertime, all these weeds are gonna grow.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

It's like the second the sun hits it, the sun grows those weeds, and that's just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Neighbor came over and the lake president or whatever. He's like, Oh, I used to help him pull all the weeds because he's got pretty bad here. And I'm like, dang it. Yeah, and I really got like upset by it. I was like, ah man, like that's really hurting me because like I want the full experience.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah. Um what's the point of a lake if you can't get in the lake?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, like at a very minimum, like at least two or three feet in or whatever, you know, just something where you can at least get in, like for children.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Um, and so I started I just went to town on like I went obsessed over it. I was like, I have to figure this out, there has to be a good way. And so like friends came over and we were like raking, and I was like, Okay, well, we went and toured that dock, and that guy mentioned something. That's where it started. Yeah, he's he mentioned the blower, yeah. Um, but he really didn't ever mention the price, and then uh a couple weeks later he finally mentioned the price. I'm like, oh my gosh, like six thousand dollars. I was like, okay, let me try raking. So had some friends over, tried that. That was awful. Yeah. Um, I was like, that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Smelled bad, came back the next day. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

It was like, and I was really just like, oh my gosh, I have to figure this out. And so I started looking online and I found another little blower. I don't know what they call uh the official thing is. We just called a bubbler, maybe maybe a bubble or something, whatever. Um, and I found one on um Amazon or yeah, I think it was on Amazon, but then I went straight to the carrier from there and they were Michigan-based. And I was like, Oh, that's cool. And it was like 2300 bucks. I was like, oh, even cooler. So I called them and I tell them, I'm like, look, dude, I'm from West Texas, I don't know a thing about water. Only thing I know is this water sucks. Like this is gross, and I would never get in it. And I don't want my guests to get in it, and this is like what I'm trying to um do. And he was like, This will do it. And he was so confident. He's like, This one right here. And I was like, okay, this is how far we are from power. Like, do I connect it to an extension cord? How does that work? He's like, Nope, got the power. Uh, he goes, measure it for me. I'm on the phone, I'm out in the yard measuring it. He goes, perfect. I'm gonna send this out to you if you had seven days. He goes, You're gonna put it all together, you're gonna hang it off your dock, and you're just gonna let it blow. And I was like, Okay, what's the return policy? Because we're like, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Because you are a fantastic salesman, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Dude, good for you, man. Also, which is like a job. Um, and so I was like, cool. So I get it in, I get it all together. I have the contractors actually hook it all up uh because they had to come back and do some work, uh some touch-ups, and we got it all done, and we I started messing with it within 30 minutes. That water was like crystal clear. Crystal clear. Crystal clear. I blew out all the nasty, I blew out all the muck, I blew everything out, and that water is like it now matches the house.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

It just was like I had an expectation of just understanding like, okay, if you are have some sort of blower under the water, it's going to blow the seaweed that's like loose in the water away from the shore. Yeah. Right? Like that made sense to me because it's like when the wind comes across the lake, it blows the seaweed onto our shore. Right. And because we're on the east side and the wind comes from the west towards the east, that's why our house just gets slammed with seaweed and muck worse than any other house on the lake.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

And so I expected it to just like counter it. Like, you know, it still was gonna be gross, but maybe it wasn't gonna have like lily pads covering the shore, um, but still wasn't gonna be like appetizing to get into.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Because the ground was so mucky.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Like I was expecting, I didn't anticipate that with that blower, it would blow the muck away and it would turn into a clear, sandy, beautiful bottom.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah, yeah. Cause when your family came to visit, it was awful.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

It was embarrassing. I was like, oh my god, yeah, you're watching like Kenzie try and like play in the water and like but has to get around like I mean, it was all floating, it was like you could barely see the water.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah, it was a it was a swamp.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I am so embarrassed. Like, and this is what families are gonna look like they're like great house, awful water.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Uh well, it's like one of those things when hosts will be like, I can't control nature, yeah, you know, because like an animal will die in the woods, or like whatever the case maybe, whatever the circumstance is where it's like it just is what it is. But at the end of the day, like as a guest, you can't really that's one of those things that you see this like beautiful picture of a house on a lake with the sunset and all the things, and you like imagine it to be this great experience, and the muck, the bottom of the lake quality and the top of the lake quality is just not something you can see in photos, right? And that is a game changer on the kind of time you're gonna have at the lake.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah, so I apologize for missing that for anybody that has uh a lake house in Michigan and you've got a mucky or weedy uh lake uh and you've built out a beach because we built out a beautiful beach, it's just everything was beautiful and perfect except the water. If you have that problem, reach out to us. I'd be more than happy to connect you with the person that helped us out. I can't remember off the top of my head who it was. Um, but excellent customer service, and they'll know exactly what to do to help you out.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Yeah, that was the best $2,200 we spent on that house right at the end.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Now I'm like every lake house.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

It cares the like re-spike their energy.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah. Because it was like we were it was the win at the very end that we needed.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yes, yeah, yeah. And it was such a win. I just it I would have never guessed it was gonna work that good.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

I obsessed over it. I couldn't stop. I was like, I literally was about to sell the house. If I couldn't solve it, it's gone.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

You're like, yeah, somebody else's problem now. Um, but also it stays plugged in, it's on a timer. Yeah, yeah, the thing turns on 30 minutes three times a day throughout the night. So the guests will never hear the blowing. Yeah. Um, but they're gonna wake up every single morning and the lake is gonna be right in front of our house is gonna be sandy, clear, beach.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah, yeah, you get further than that. Uh you're on your own.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

But yeah, look at the neighbors and you're gonna see the difference. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

That's right. So yeah, that was a win. That was that was huge. That was uh that was something that we really needed.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Um, so anyway, again, if you have a lake house, let me know.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah. Yeah. I think a couple of my favorite splurges on the house. Um, I think one is the half bath under the stairs.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Like I just think that that turned out what I used the entire time I was there.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

So I guess I could vouch that was nice.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

And the outdoor shower.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

The outdoor shower was just one of those things that I don't have a ton of data on to support whether it has an ROI or not. And it was an expensive splurge, right? It's like requires plumbing, requires requires winter.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I'm just thinking about winter.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

I mean, yeah, we'll just take the head off.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Oh, sure. That's what it always is, right? Just take it out. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

We put the shut off down inside, easy access.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Okay. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Uh, but I will say that having that shower. Like that enclosed, private. You can take a full shower. It's got hot water. Um, it's located right next to the sauna cold plunge hot dub.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah, having hot water is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

I didn't take a single shower inside.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Right. Once it was ready.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

We have two showers inside, obviously the one outside. I never showered in the upstairs shower ever because I just kept gravitating towards that outdoor shower. It just is so luxurious.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah, super private.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Super private. Yeah. Um, so those are the two splurges that I think obviously outside of the blower, and then the garage doors.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Something I also pushed really hard for.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

It was just again one of those things where it's like it's a perfect house. Like it's beautiful. Like we did the windows, the siding, the gutters, need to do the roof. And those garage doors were just faded, like almost like brown turned like maroon. And I was just like, I pushed really hard. And then I got the contractor to push you pretty hard on that too. I got we ganged up on you because I was like, look, I it's not in the budget, yeah, but we have to do it.

unknown 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

I'm glad we did. They look great.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

I'm glad we did too.

unknown 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

The last portion of this that it wasn't really a splurge because it was like $500 in paint, but it was a conscious push at the end to finish that I think just really set the house off. And we did this after the final photos, so we don't even have final photos of this result. But when we decided to paint all the concrete on the bottom half of the house, I think that just set that house house off. Like the side where the siding ends at the bottom and the concrete starts, we have a walkout basement. So the front, the road facing side of the house, there's like I don't know, maybe nine inches of concrete that shows below the siding. But then on the back, there's like, you know, on the sides it slopes down, and so it starts at nine inches and then gets to be like seven foot or something. Like you have to step on a ladder to paint it. Um, but painting that just like I just remember standing back away from the house after we finished painting it, and I just was like, yes, that just was the lipstick of the house.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

That's right. The earrings and the lipstick. Well, let's talk about two. I've got two questions. Okay. Not two questions. I've got one question and then one thing that I wanted to talk about. Uh, are you ready to move? Still on Black Pearl, but is that all you had on uh on some of the things that we did?

SPEAKER_02 24:26

I have a very loose outline here.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

So very good. Okay. First one is side quest me. What everybody's gonna want to know is are we doing another one? Are we I asked first.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

I mean, yeah, eventually. We we love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

We do we're addicted to chaos.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

We're addicted to nice houses. Uh for sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Um, yeah, we touched on this two months ago, probably in the last podcast that we recorded together, but um it I mean, real estate is a slow growth game, and we have prioritized pouring all of our money into real estate for the last five years. And granted, we've gotten really beat up in the real estate space, like through regulation changes in particular. Um, so I'm not saying like our growth has been fast than slow, you know, uh, which has been fine. It is what it is. And we do have a few properties that are incredible that we enjoy, and the black pearl is something that we'll get to use ourselves, but um, yeah, there's there's been a big shift mentally, I think, for us where we're like pro having nice Airbnbs is great. Having a lot of expendable income and a income and a high cash-flowing business is better.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Um, because at the end of the day, like when we first started Airbnb, I was desperate to get out of my nine to five. And then I was really romanticizing owning property, getting to, you know, design spaces that I didn't have a client for, like all of these other things that didn't really have to do with the investment itself. And then now that we've been in the Airbnb space for five years, I still get just as excited to, you know, pour my money into a house. Um but that that romanticizing, I guess, of all the other things that are around Airbnb is a little I've had a reality check. You know, because the reality is, is even though we create these really beautiful homes and we're like, as we're designing them, we like justify splurging on this or that because we're like, well, we'll really enjoy this and we want this here when we're here. And then the reality is, is we never go.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Yeah, we don't go.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

We never go. Like, when was the last time we were at our Hale property?

SPEAKER_04 27:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Like, up until moving into our Fort Worth property property a few weeks ago, when was the last time we were here? I don't know. When's the next time we're gonna be in Black Pearl? Like the second we're out of the house, it's running, it's making money, and it turns into a business, and that emotional romance that you get towards the property as you're bringing it to life just goes out the window.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah, now it's work.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Now it's work.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Now the fun begins.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah. And I mean, we said this on the last podcast, but every Airbnb has a cap on how much money it can produce.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Whereas a cash flowing business doesn't have a cap, like you can continue growing that without having to spend the amount of money that you have to spend to get another property to then grow that income. Yeah, for sure. And so, yes, I think we will do more in the future, but I think that there will be a longer pause between projects than there ever has been since we started this.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yep, back to the cash flowing businesses. Absolutely. Tired of being cash poor asset rich. Like that's what real estate is.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah, and it's like if we have the cash, I will spend it on the real estate that we're working on.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Absolutely. I could even though we spent two and a half times what we have spent in the past on this property on Black Pearl, I could have spent double what I spent. You know, like there is no there is no, oh, there's nothing else you can do to this house.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Oh, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

You know?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Um, yeah, no, I get too emotionally involved. So I need to stuff. I need that's why Studio Host has been so great because I feel so much less emotionally attached to the end result than I do my own property.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Thank God. Cool. The second thing I wanted to talk about was how much it's earned so far.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Um, that's exciting stuff. That's what I uh that's what I get excited about. So we obviously got to use Studio Host created realistic renders for us, and so we got to launch um our Airbnb early.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Um and it was pretty incredible to see because there were a few photos I and just truthful here, I thought that we could have removed that I thought looked AI. That once like the first 10 photos didn't, they were like perfect and beautiful. But once somebody saw that one was AI, then you started seeing maybe that others were as well. And so we had a tremendous amount of people booking, but we did have a few people reach out and were like, hey, you know, when are you?

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Is the property actually gonna look like this?

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Is it gonna look like this? When are you gonna like have actual photos and things like that? And so I think that you said we launched with 20,000 already booked.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

No, we we had 20,000 booked before we added the final photos. Before we added the final photos, and then we added the final photos probably three weeks before we actually launched.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Okay, okay, and then we launched, right? And again, it's like the to understand Michigan specifically, it's like uh the summer is the busy season, that's when you make all your money, and you're like we were like last minute, last minute. And so we didn't know what we were gonna get.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

We added the final photos, Memorial Weekend, yeah, and then we opened it up, like we hosted our first guest on the 12th. So the final photos were added 12 days before we hosted our first guest.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Right. And so with that being that close to summer, like what are we gonna get? You know, what are we gonna get? We had no clue, right? And I haven't done uh I haven't updated it in uh probably about a week, but I've got some numbers here I I don't think I've shared with you for Oh yeah, and again, it's it's probably two weeks off, so it could be um significantly higher now. Yeah, a little different. Um, but um as of like I said, a week or two ago, um so far, and this doesn't, you know, this is just for the summer. And why this is important, I think, is because June, July, and August, what we earn in those months is going to determine what we earn in the next the the next nine in the next nine because we make half the income in the summer and then half the income of the winter. Yeah, generally so this is a really good indicator of what we're gonna look that we're gonna end at in the year. Um and just for June, uh July and August, we were at $62,000. Yes. And we've got uh I think July or June was I think there was only two days that we didn't. Um and I think July we still have five or six days, so I'm sure we'll get those at least a few booked.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

62 grand for three months.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And then August, I think we've got like a week and a half left.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

So if we can get to 70, 75 even, um, that'd be 140 to 150, is what we can comfortably calculate that earning this first year.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

That was my goal for year two. So I expected year one to hit like 115, 120.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, yeah. Um of course we never know, but that that's a pretty good indicator.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

That is a good indicator, especially for launching when we did.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

You know, because we're our pricing, although it's still relatively high, it is l it was lower when we started because somebody commented, I was like, you should be charging more.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

I'm like, yeah, of course, if we were live, we have zero reviews, zero reviews, like yeah, like brand new listing right before summertime. Like, of course, we want the higher rate, but we have to take what we can get. But we were still there's still many bookings. The person that's currently in there that paid over a thousand dollars a night. So um it was excellent, and like an eight-day booking.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

So, yeah. So anyway, I just wanted to end with that.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

That's incredible. Yeah, that is incredible. I mean, our best performing property that we've ever had made I think 150 in its best year.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

But that was year three, wasn't it? The year two. Year two?

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Okay. No, I think you're right. I think it was year three. Two and a half.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Sure. So yeah. But so we could see. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, that one didn't have a sauna, it didn't have, you know, there's a lot. I think a big reason, or something that I think that we have really started to understand in the Michigan lake house space in general, is the closer you are to a city, the more money you're gonna make. And it doesn't make the properties that are three or four hours north of Detroit or Grand Rapids not worth it because we have properties that are yeah that far away and they still make you know a hundred, hundred and twenty, hundred and thirty thousand dollars a year, but those properties have never made 150,000.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

170. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Yeah. The properties that are within an hour of Grand Rapids or Detroit, you can hit those numbers pretty easily because you're so close to the airport.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Um, and you're closer to Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

And because we 1031 uh uh lily pad into it, um, we put more than 20% down because we learned that you can't take money from the 1031 and use it towards uh renovation, run that right at the last moment. And uh and so our our our mortgage on that thing is like right around $2,200. Um so our expenses, not our not our electric bill, we gotta get that figured out. That one we just got hit with, but uh but our expenses are fairly low on that thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah. I mean, you think about the blower, the sauna, the coal plunge, the hot tub, the bistro lights. Like there aren't some there are some things outside that are sucking some electricity. Yeah, and it's the biggest square footage we've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

It's a big house. It's a big house. Big house. And I think it's an older system as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

So we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

But yeah, that's been it's been such a good experience so far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

It has but speaking of buying businesses, you know, when you start to do the cash on cash, like it's still it's still low compared to buying a business.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Yeah, I mean the best cash on cash you're gonna get for an Airbnb is like 20%.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah. For a business, it's like unlimited.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

300, honestly. Well over a hundred percent in your first year. So uh yeah, that's unfortunately the numbers don't make sense unless you've got a big tax problem, and we don't have a big tax problem. No. Yeah, we're not big enough to have a like I think that's been a big eye-opener for both of us over the last year, I would say, is that when you're in the real estate space, so much of the conversation is wrapped around the tax benefits.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

And when you're new into it, you think that applies to you.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

And it it does, but it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah. You hear all the people talk about paying zero taxes, zero dollars in taxes, and it's like, so even if you have a twenty thousand dollar tax bill, you think that that can apply to you, and it it doesn't, it shouldn't. Yeah, I mean it does, it does, it does lower your taxes, but it's like the amount of debt and risk you have to put up to avoid twenty thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah, and your cash flow problem is significantly larger than your tax problem, right? You know, like if if your goal is to be unreasonably wealthy in this life, and it's not just to replace your nine to five income with something that produces forty to sixty thousand dollars a year, right? And our goal is to be unreasonably wealthy if we're going to spend the time building something, right? Airbnb is not the way to go.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah. Yeah, spending a hundred or a hundred and fifty to save twenty in taxes doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Learned it the hard way.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Oh, yeah. Um, yeah, well, I mean, we learned a lot. I think it's like we did it a little backwards, just like our CPA said. He's like, you know, you need to be focused on the cash flowing business first and then be boring all of that into real estate. And so, you know, it's one of those things that like we I guess we could have learned this or had this era after we built a really high cash flowing business. Yeah, yeah. Uh we would have had to learn that skill anyway at some point in time because I don't imagine that we're gonna be like gung ho in the stock market ever. Yeah. Um so whatever, there's a lot of time left on the clock.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

That's right. That's right. We learned a lot.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

We did there a lot. A lot of good stuff. A lot of good stuff. Um so we moved to Texas.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

We moved to Texas.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

We went into this year knowing we were gonna move. From your perspective, why did you want to leave Michigan?

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Um well, I was done with the real estate game in Michigan. You know, obviously the regulations just took a lot of the wind out of our sales. Um, and I just I'm on all the Michigan short-term rental pages, and it is daily where another township is starting their BS. Um, and and it's just there to me, they aren't going to stop.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

It's it's I just feel like if the state's never gonna step in, it's only gonna get worse.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Um, and you know, hopefully that's not true, right? But that just is that's my opinion. Um, so I was done with that. Um, I also looked at a million businesses for sale in Michigan as well.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Like, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Like moving across the country is never like the first thing I think of doing. Okay. Um, so I was looking at all sorts of businesses, and you know, there's a bunch of landscaping companies, pool companies, um, all the, you know, all those things, but it's like that's all extremely seasonal. And I didn't want to have a really good and busy summer like our properties do, and then a really not busy low winter. Um, and so I just wanted a little bit more flat line, right? And so I was like, okay, we gotta get somewhere where the weather is a little bit more even. Just like when we were thinking about buying an RV park, it's like, well, why does everybody close RV parks in Michigan in the wintertime? Well, Kylie, look at it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Yeah, nobody wants to be in there.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Nobody wants to be in there, right? So it's like, I don't want to buy something that's only can run half a year. Uh it's like by the time you get it ramped up, it's time to close down. So I knew that. Um, and you know, we just we've got a lot of I don't know, I was just ready for something new. Michigan's beautiful, I think it's uh an amazing place, but I was ready for new inspiration. We hadn't necessarily really um gotten big or deep into any sort of entrepreneur groups or anything there. Um, and so we really never sink our teeth into that. So I was just ready for something new. I was like, all right, I'm I wanna I want to go be around people that are doing big things. I want to go to a place that is pro-business. Um, you know, and I just want to go spend the next five years working and working hard, and like building something that can't just be taken away because a group of people didn't like me, even though I've never done anything to them or never hurt them or anything like that. So I was just ready to move somewhere where people were excited to have me.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Yeah. Yeah, it is extremely frustrating and disheartening. And obviously, our our like I I there's no way to articulate the pain of the last two years from a regulation standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Three years.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Three years. Like, I just I know that we've talked about this quite a bit, but until you're in it, you just can't feel that gut punch of spending every single dollar that you've got on build punches over and over.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

And it's a super slow process that you already know the outcome to it. Yes. And you should start planning.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yeah, it's like being in an abusive relationship for three years where they're just like we have every reason to leave.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah. Uh we keep dangling this carrot. Yeah, and I didn't mean to interrupt, but yeah, no, it it was constant gut punches over and over.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

And it just it's one of those things that like Michigan, when it comes to the Midwest, like Michigan is the best tourism state as far as like having access to lakes, like being up north, like the weather, the everything about Michigan just screams we are the tourist state of the Midwest.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Like Michigan is so much better from a tourism perspective, and access to everything that you could ever want than Ohio, Indiana, you know, Illinois. Like it just is. You've got the Great Lakes. Like it's you're not convincing me. It's stunning, and everybody wants to go up north, and you can't get further up north than Michigan. It just is like one of those things that I feel like if I were running the state of Michigan, I would be like, we are full blown now that automobiles here are dead, now that furniture is dead, and you've got all these cities that have these huge old historic homes that are falling apart because all these cities boomed when Gerber existed, and you know, all of this like Michigan had a prime way back when, and now it's crumbling, and they could grab onto tourism and be like, we are going to be pure Michigan, we're gonna be the state that people want to come to in the Midwest. We are going to leverage the thing that we do have, which is gorgeous nature, gorgeous scenery, off the beaten path. Like, and they don't. They just in every single city council meeting that we've been in, they just are like, we want it to be exactly like it is today for the rest of forever. We don't want any foreigners in here, we don't want any, like, we want it to be like it was when we were kids growing up when this house here was my grandmas and my great grandmas, and like they don't want to share it with anyone else, and they just want to see it die.

SPEAKER_05 43:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

And in my opinion, the tone from every single city council that we've dealt with in Michigan is that they want it to stay the same. But the reality is that there is no such thing as staying the same.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

We live in a living, breathing world.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

And so you're either growing or you're dying. And if you're trying to stay the same, you are dying.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

And so it's just like it is very clear that Michigan, in my opinion, and I don't mean to offend anybody that still lives there, I love it, but it is very clear to me that they are letting that die.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yes. Absolutely. I love Michigan as well. Like I I love the state I grew up in, but nonetheless, the people, the way that it's run, it's driving it into the ground.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah. And it's it's really there are small examples of how that's not true, right? Everybody knows a township that is pro tourism and things, but as a whole, as a whole, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Even in the areas that are completely reliant on tourism, like Holland. South Haven. Yeah. Get out. You know, it's just one of those things that it's just really sad to see Michiganers put so much effort into business. And it's like when we go to these short-term rental meetings, every business owner shows up because it's already hard enough to be a business owner in a state like Michigan where your busy season is only four months out of the year and you every business, restaurants, shops, bars, ice cream, like any business you can imagine makes a vast majority of their income in the summer when tourism hits Michigan.

SPEAKER_04 44:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

And so when short-term rental conversations get brought up in these city council meetings, and you've got every single business owner, the entire economic system in your town is there screaming, please let Airbnbs stay.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

And a group of five say no.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

And a group of five who have lived there for generations.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Say no.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yep. No changing.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

I just yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Yeah. Yeah. You gotta go. So yeah, that's why. And Texas, obviously, like I wouldn't say obviously, but Texas wasn't first pick. Um in fact, I didn't want to come back. Um quite a bit of trauma when it comes to that sun and that heat. Uh um, but it has everything that we were looking for, right? We're looking for community, yeah, we're looking for growth, um, we're looking for pro business, and we're really just we're looking ultimately we enjoy like popping around and going and visiting all the places in the world, but it's like we have to have a home base. We've learned that. Um, we have to have a place.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

We forget that often.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

We do forget that, but it's like we have to have a place to send mail, we have to have a place to lay our head down. Um that's that's very important.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

We have to have a place to store our clothes.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, that's very important to us. Parker car when we went and traveled to California and Arizona, you know, wherever else we went. And we just really started thinking about it. It was like, you know what? Like, we love those places, but we have no community. Yeah. Um, one of those two are not very pro-business. Yeah. Um, as far as community, you can probably get pretty excellent community out there, but we didn't know anybody, so we're starting over. Um, and then it just seemed like a great place to travel to.

SPEAKER_04 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

And and not a place to call home. So, like, when we I think who was it me or was it who thought of going back to Texas first?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Well, we decided we had to go to Texas because of street sweeping company.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

That's right, that's right. Okay, yeah. So we we we had to go down there at least for that. We're gonna go meet the owner. Uh, we're gonna be close. And if we got any closer to closing on that, um, I believe that when you buy a business, you need to be there at least. You know, everybody thinks about being passive and never showing up and the business running and making money itself. But you need to be there at least six months. You need to set the tone, um, you need to set the standard and build and create the culture.

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

And so I wanted to be down here for that. So we're like, yeah, let's go to Texas, um, at least for a little while, see if we can't get this closed up. So I was not my first choice.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

No, I mean, you did not push it at all.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

No. But I but I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

I am too. I mean, the second the second we got to Fort Worth, and I feel like I felt this every single time we've come back to Fort Worth, it is the most underrated city in the US. I like I will die on that hill. It's just it's everything about it. I don't again, it's one of those things that I don't even know how to articulate why it's so great. But in comparison to every other city that we've traveled to, I mean, you think about all the other cities that are like kind of exploding right now in popular places to live, like Austin, like San Diego, like Phoenix, Scottsdale, uh Nashville, Nashville, anywhere in Florida. Yeah, Charleston, like I mean, we have been to all of those places except for Charleston.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Yeah. I haven't been hardly anywhere on the East Coast.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

Um they just don't even it's just not even a comparison when you want to talk about quality of city.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Like Fort Worth might not have as much no, I I don't even believe that. I think Fort Worth has more access. I think what makes Fort Worth so great is it's got all of the same things that any of the big, big cities do, like New York, like LA. But because it's not Dallas, like you have access to it because Dallas is so close, but because it's not Dallas, it just also has that like slower life built into it.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

That's what people come for.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

Like downtown Fort Worth, day in and day out, there's a little bit of hustle and bustle, but you're not like it doesn't feel like a rat race. No, it doesn't. Like when we walk every single morning that we don't see anybody else. It's it's a pretty slow city.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Yeah. Um I think that's why they call it Panthers. It's like a sleepy city.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Yes. Yeah, it's so quiet that a panther could sleep in the center of it.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Oh, is that what it is? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it too. Are you 21 looking for a super big party scene? Like forward probably ain't gonna be it. Even though I did it. I was gonna say I disagree. I did it, but you know, like compared to like Austin or Miami or something, I don't know, maybe I don't know. I did it, it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

But yeah, because you have again, it's like you're you have the stockyards, you have West Seventh, you have near South Side, you have Dallas, you have Dallas. Yeah, um, yeah. I mean, the night you've got downtown, like the nightlife here, I think, is still absolutely excellent.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

It's just you're never in danger at yeah, no, it's incredibly safe. I saw people out there drinking last night. I'm like, it's like a Tuesday or something. I'm like, I didn't know even people even did that, but they were just having a good old jolly time walking down the sidewalk.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Yeah, I have never once felt unsafe in Fort Worth, even in the slightest. Um, you never have to wait in line anywhere. No, you can't you don't have to make reservations for anything. Like, there's just it's it's so incredible. There's just you've got your rooftop bars, you've got your country bars, you've got your club bars, like you've just got to be proud of this place.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yeah. And that's a big difference too between Fort Worth and Texas and and Michigan. Like, I think people are proud in Michigan, like obviously, but like proud to just leave it the way it is. Yeah. Where it seems like Texas is like proud to grow.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Proud to grow.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Proud to be a part of the growth.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Texas is booming.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Like, you're not gonna like change hardly much, but as far as the way of thinking, but we are we are happy to be part of the growth, and we are happy to um to see that happen.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah. I would be curious. I mean, I know that California's got the biggest economy in the states, right? From a state perspective. Yeah, Texas has to be number two.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

It is. Okay, I was gonna say there's no way. There's still a pretty severe, or not severe, but there's pretty quite a bit big gap between the two still.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Like California's huge.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Um, they they pump out some money.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

I'm sure. I'm sure. I just think that uh the perspective of Texas is like cowboys and horses. You know. Um, I was watching. Yeah, which that does exist. That does exist. Like that.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Where I'm from, it that exists.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

That vibe is everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Right? Like the police officers are on horses downtown. Yeah. Like we've got the cowboy. Yeah, we've got the cowboy vibe for sure, but it is like mixed with all of your modern everything.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Oh, yeah. You got yeah, you literally have everything you want. Everything you want. And it's it's fun because I think we're seeing that uh the Western flare or whatever is uh popular. Yeah, it's getting its moment. So it's like even more people wearing cowboy boots and cowboy hats and stuff. It's fun to watch.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

It is fun to be a part of fun to watch, yeah. Um, yeah, and just in being here, like we obviously got down here right when uh the World Cup started. Oh, yeah. And AT ⁇ T Stadium is obviously hosting a lot of those games, and so just seeing the online narrative of people experiencing DFW for the first time as well has just been incredible.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

Yeah, it has been. It's been all the way around. A lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Yeah, I'm stoked to be back. I mean, I've always said that it's like you were more stoked to move to Michigan than I was.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah. Well, it's because I never made a big move.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Biggest move was Angelo to Midland. Yeah. Yeah, two hours. Yeah. I guess four words.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

And I was like, okay, we'll go back. And then when we decided to move again and we decided on Texas, I'm like running. I'm like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Sometimes you don't know how good you got it to leave.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah. Which I'm sure every Texan ever listening to you say that is like celebrated.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Duh, it didn't need to leave.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

We knew that without leaving.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, so we signed a lease yesterday. We've been in our Airbnb for the last three weeks, but we signed a lease yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 52:42

That we did.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

Uh in signing a lease, uh, the only qualm I had with moving back to Fort Worth, or the idea of moving back to Fort Worth, is and really one of my only qualms with Texas in general, in being an interior designer, is the real estate.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Like the suburbs in Texas.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

That's what you get when you boom.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

It's what you get when you boom. And every house looks exactly the same.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Um, every single apartment complex looks exactly the same. It's the same people putting them up, it's the same people putting them up everywhere. It's got the same layout, it's just a different color scheme and maybe slightly different workout equipment in each gym. But it just is the same, same, same, same, same. And so when we were looking at different places to live, like I was really attracted to San Diego because they have high rises, and I was like, man, finally, I get a cool apartment. Like, I work from home, I spend 95% of my life in this box of whatever apartment we're in.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Like the apartment is really important to me.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

Um, it just drives the energy of my day every single day. And so when we got to Fort Worth and we were considering moving back here, I'm like, do we just take our Airbnb offline and like live here? Because it's downtown. I love the unit. You know, I love the location. There's no other high rises downtown that we can live in.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Yeah, like that you could that you can rent, like the townhouse or penthouse, whatever they call them, but you can't like buy an apartment.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Yeah, and and there was nothing new downtown. Right. Um, and then we got here and we started looking at apartments and realized that they had opened the first high-rise, residential high-rise in downtown Fort Worth in the last 20 years. And they opened it in 2024. And I was like, say less queen.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

You built it for me.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

It is beautiful, expensive, but beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Worth it.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

And again, like expensive, but less expensive than any apartment we were gonna get in San Diego.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Expensive for Fort Worth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 54:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Um, but still comparable to a two-bed, two bath in Grand Haven.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Yeah, yeah, no. It it it's one of those things. It's it's absolutely gorgeous. I mean, it just I'm never excited to spend money.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

So unless it's on a blower.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Yeah, unless it's like I can see what it does. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Um, shifting gears a little bit. Um what's your mentality? Give us an update on buying the street sweeping company.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

I hope he listens to this. Um it's been a very frustrating experience.

SPEAKER_04 55:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

This is raw. I've debated on how much to share with everybody. So this is this is as good as it gets. This is off the cuff. Off the cuff. Um, you know, just for a quick playback on on what's going on, you know, this this guy listed this street sweeping business back in January um on one of the popular websites. I inquired, never heard back. You had posted a video, I think, in March or something, and about us buying a business, and he had actually reached out to you. Yeah. Um we discovered that once we got on the phone with him and started talking. So then we um, you know, I signed an NDA, I started looking at things, and then I put an offer on there, right? And like during the offer or during the due diligence period, is that's when you are giving things, the seller is giving things to the potential buyer to learn more about the business, right? And to see if this is like it's like putting an offer in a house. Like you, you know, you're you're you're you want to buy it, but there's you got to make sure the financing goes to the house. Let me see the inspection. It's the same thing. We're just opening up the hood, we're taking a look. Um, and we're not using a broker. He he didn't want to use a broker, which I you know, you can score a really good deal, which I think I've mentioned in a different episode. You can score a really good deal. However, it's now up to me to balance you know, I gotta play the good cop, bad cop sometimes, right? Sometimes I gotta be firm, and sometimes I'm like, hey, you know, friendly. Um, and so it's been a really tricky and interesting thing, especially from across the country. Uh so you know, I let him know I'm moving to Texas. I fully plan on coming down and meeting him, and I would like to like really push this because we've been working on this for a while, and it's it shouldn't take this long.

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:08

Um, and but I would blame it on, hey, I was busy, he's busy, I'm in Michigan, he's in Texas. So I would continue blaming on things. Um, but ultimately I was talking to a buddy down here um who owns a business, and I was kind of explaining where I was at and what's going on. He was like, What do the financials look like? You know, I'd take a look at those for you seeing I run a big successful business, I can in equipment rental, and you know, I'd I'll take a look at it and just kind of give you my peace of mind. And if it looks good, I'll be your investor. And I was like, Oh, okay, that's great. Um, and I was like, Well, actually, I have still been working on I'm still trying to receive 2025 PLs, and for that fact, um for that matter, I still haven't gotten 24 or 23. And you're supposed to get three years of of financials. And this is June.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Yeah, you've asked him for these since January.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Since March. Um, so at a very minimum, you should be getting 23 and 24s, right?

SPEAKER_02 58:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Uh 25, he said the CPA takes a while. I called our CPA.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

He's like, Why hasn't he sent 23 and 24s? He has to have those.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

I don't have I cannot get anything out of it. Like, yeah, so um, so anyway, just long story longer. Um I it's not that I've lost interest, it's that I have to move forward.

SPEAKER_04 58:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

And so I sent a pretty aggressive email three weeks ago. And I said, look, our my LOI has expired, my offer has expired. Um, and I have no intention of re-signing this thing um until I get financials. I said, I've got two investors that are gonna give me the money to buy this from you, and both of them have said they need the financials. That is step one. That is the first thing you send after an offer gets accepted is financials. And so he's been able to wiggle his way around it, and I've taken some things that he sent over, but at the end of the day, I need these two, these two things for these three years. Um and got him on the phone real quick, and he's like, I'll have it by my CPS says he'll have it by Monday. That was two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

And so I think what it's come down to, and I need to have one more conversation with him. I think maybe that email, it was it was it was aggressive, but you know, again, it's like it's his first time, it's my first time. Um and it's very difficult not using a broker to go through this, but I think what has happened is he got the idea because when he originally posted that the the listing, he wanted 3.3 million for it. By the time I submitted an offer, I submitted it for 1.3. And so I think what that did was that took the wind out of his sales, right? He's like, okay, like I it's not con because it allegedly he was only spending five hours a week on it. And so he's like, I'm not spending hardly any time on this thing, it's making me five hundred thousand dollars a year. Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it all alone. Yeah, and I just don't know if he's ever like maybe he's thought that, but he just hasn't had that conversation with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Yeah, because uh like when you really get down to the brass tacks of something like that, not it's uh because it's his first time, there could have been some sort of anticipation that he was gonna get that 1.3 million in cash tomorrow, and he probably was like thinking in his brain, like I'm gonna throw this into the houses that I flip, or I'm gonna X, Y, and Z. Right. And then when you realize, like, no, your numbers are disorganized. A bank isn't extremely bank isn't gonna lend on it, right? So we're gonna have to sell our finance it, which means that you're going to get a down payment and then a payment schedule. Right. All of a sudden he's like, okay, well, the payment schedule is less than less than what I'm earning currently. So why would I say like why would I fool with it if it's only cost me five hours a week? Like I could spend zero hours a week and slowly let it die and probably make that same amount of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

And I understand. Yeah. I completely understand that. Um, it's just I think it would have been if that's the mentality, then it would have been fair to just let you go. Let it go.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Um, so that's where I'm at. I I I've actually um I have taken just a step back from the business buying for a moment, um, just because I've been put through six months of back and forth, yeah. The ringer, right? Um, and I've actually just uh a week or two ago I met with a local broker, uh business broker. Um great dude. Um, I have a pretty strong feeling towards brokers, um, a negative feeling towards them. And um, this one was good, good dude, got got a really good idea of what it was that I'm looking for, what it is that I want, how much money we have, you know, just all the things you want a broker to know. That way, when that opportunity comes, he thinks of me.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

And and so that's I have decided for just a moment. I'm going to press pause on that. I'm gonna see if he can ever, you know, he can come up with anything. He's already sent me one, a little too far away. Um, great business, but too far away. I don't want to travel that far. Um and just see what he you know he comes up with. I look every day. You know, I still look and I just want to peek what's out there and what the market's doing. Um, but I I as far as like signing NDAs and reviewing financials, and I mean I I've done a few, but I I'm really putting a pause on that, is what I'm trying to say. Um, and I'm gonna blow everybody's mind when I say I've actually accepted a job. Like I've taken a job and accepted a position.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

Um back to the JOB.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Back to the J O B in 9 to 5, which I haven't had um since 2013. 2014, September of 2014.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

No, when I met you at a J O B and we met in 2015.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Like I met Okay, you're right. 2015. Yeah. Okay. Whenever I quit Midland, um, I came to DFW, I worked three months, and then I got into the insurance business.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

And so when I say J O B, I just mean like a corporate 95 job. I uh I started my entrepreneurial journey when I moved to Fort Worth.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Um, and so yeah, my own boss. So yeah, okay, 2015. Um, September, yeah, whatever it was. So uh yeah, I took that on, and that was pretty unexpected. And uh the the guy that hired me is a good buddy of mine. He needed uh a sales guy. Um rightfully so. He was a bit unsure.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

He's like, why?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

Why, yeah, and and and and I was it's fair because I was asking the same questions, yeah. Um, but I felt like I had lost a little momentum. I believe momentum is everything. Yeah and I felt like I got a little uh complacent and uh got a little lazy maybe. And so I was just like, I have to like get in motion again, like I have to get good at something, I have to like gain that confidence back, right? That like all the things that uh that make me me, I guess. And and and so I was like, man, there's like I don't want to go back to insurance. I just did not want to do that. I felt like that was a step back. Um he had a position, it was a it was a really good position, really good offer. Um, we're both still kind of like to each other, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

Uh yeah, yeah, because it's it just shifts the dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

It does, it does, and he has made it very clear that I do not report to him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

Um, because he's always viewed you as a mentor in a way, you know, or like somebody that he respects the opinion of.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

Um, he'd probably kill me if I said he referred looks at you like a mentor. You'd be like this guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Yeah. And and so it's it's a really fun thing because I'm helping him out, he's helping me out. Um you know, he's been extremely successful in that that business, and I'm I'm on day one, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

Um, and I've got uh kind of a unique flair that I've talked to him a little bit about on what I can bring to the table. Um I feel like a lot of the things that they do is things that they did in the past. There's not a lot of technology in this type of work.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Um, and I've I've grown to love implementing some technology and some systems.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:17

So uh yeah, you're overqualified for the position. But nonetheless, it like I just think it's been so much fun having the conversations around which granted you're like a week and a half in, right? Like you're brand new.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Yeah, you could be doing pro bono work. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

But I just think it's fun to step back into corporate America and look at it from a whole new lens. Because for the last ten years, you have had to worry about every single peg in the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

Every decision lied on my shoulders. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

Yeah, and and so you're Constantly thinking through like efficiencies and where money is being spent where it shouldn't be, and how your employees are functioning, and like you know, you just so I think it's really interesting to just be one peg in that wheel because there's no way that you can just stay in your lane, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Like Yeah, I've already started.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Yeah, you're like, this is inefficient, like this could be done, like these people shouldn't be doing this, like this should be uh like situated different side.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

We may not even get that first page.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

One of two things is going to happen with this position. Yeah, you're either going to be the greatest asset they ever hire, yeah, and you're gonna decide that, like, actually I want to grow, I want to help grow this with you know, a guy that I really ex respect that I'm really good friends with, or you're gonna step on his toes and he's gonna be like, get out.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

Um, but either way, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Yeah, either way, whatever. It's um yeah, like on our morning walks, I'm like, my mind is thinking about all the inefficiencies that I'm seeing, and I'm just like I ain't doing that. I'm just not because like, and so it's like everything we talk about in the mornings, it's like it has nothing to do with sales. Yeah, I've nothing like I don't talk about how I'm gonna go get another sale. Like, it's like, how can I improve this system or this operation? And you know, because I sit there and I've been doing these rattles with these salespeople, and I'm just like, whoa, that makes no sense to me. It's like, why are we pulling off on the side of the road, taking an order, spending an hour doing that when we got 10 people at the office sitting in front of our computers?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

And even if you didn't have 10 people sitting in front of the computers, there is such a thing as a VA.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

Whatever, right, right. And so, like, just it's one of those things where I'm just like, man, like, and so I've been talking to him, you know, he again, he's made it very clear I don't report to him, so I haven't been like filling him in on any of like the day-to-day, not that there's been a anything really new, but uh, but I have just been asking questions, a lot of questions. Like, why, like, tell me why you we do it like this? Like, tell me what what's the thought process behind because obviously you never want to be the new guy that comes in with all these big bold ideas and tells somebody who's been crushing it for uh a couple of years now that they're doing it wrong. Like that is never my intent. I never want to be that person, and I made that crystal clear uh to him. I'm like, look, dude, I am willing to do whatever it takes to be successful. So if you've got any tips, tricks, things that I can use, I will obviously use it. But as an outsider looking in, I'm like, surely we can do a little more efficient.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

Well, I think it's incre like I think that's incredible because at the end of the day, I think it just speaks to the fact that it is so hard to find forward thinkers. And when you're building a business, like he is building this business solo, or him and his wife are building this business solo, right? And they are hustlers, they're some of the hardest workers I've ever met in my entire life.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Hard workers, that's what they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

And but at the end of the day, it's like I mean, even in being in the office today, I'm like, all of these people are looking for something to complain about and go home as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

And and that's and you surrender some of those people, like it's that that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

It's the life of an an employee, right? It's like it's much more common to have that case scenario where you're trying to do the bare minimum for the highest pay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Yeah, that's right. Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

Like that the American way. Yeah, like I've we've worked in corporate America, previously entrepreneurial, like that is so normal. And that's honestly like a a big reason why we don't pay on people who have corporate America jobs. Like, that is there is a huge advantage to not having to like figure it all out, be on every single day, all day long, putting out fires, putting your best foot forward, solving the hardest problem in the room.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Um, but I think it's gonna be a breath of fresh air for him to have your perspective alongside him because I just don't think that you're ever going to shift out of that mindset of like looking at it from his perspective as an owner.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

Yeah, they're they're working in the business. Yeah, like they are, you know, every like the sales branch manager, like he is a hundred percent just in it every day. Yeah, he can't even look up and breathe for just a moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

Yeah, his task list is too long.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

Oh, yeah, yeah. And by the time he checks one off, six more come on, right? And so, same thing with the sales team, they're like just eager to go get the next sale. Yeah, and like maybe they came from a different company in the same field, maybe they're brand new and they were taught by that, but they're just doing things that I'm just like, uh, okay, like I just like wow, like maybe there isn't, but surely there's a better way. Like, we have to fit like, and so it's just been very interesting. He is he he's giving me a little bit of flexibility and freedom. Starting with, like, basically, they just throw you into the wolves, like, hey, go ride with this guy, right? And so you go do that, and like the guy just does what he knows how to do. There's no system, yeah. There's no like this is what we're doing, this is the standard, this is how I see a win, you know, this is how there's no onboarding process. There's no onboarding. I don't know who to talk to. Hey, this is blah blah blah. This is this is there's no like it's it it's very impressive, uh, but very uh it just needs some well. It's encouraging to know that you can build something that big with how it is very encouraging because it's like you don't have to have it all figured out, right? But so yeah, so it's very interesting. Like today I was working on like building the flow chart of all the onboarding for a sales prep. Um, because we're about to have three more come on. And it not that look, it's I don't I don't mind feeling like I don't know what to do, right? That's part of being new. Um but like nobody likes that feeling, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

That's nobody likes to feel like they're just standing there in the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

So it's like, okay, like what I can be doing is actually building out a system for him and saying, like, hey, here's the flow chart, here's how it's gonna look for your first 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. After that, you're on your own. Um, right. And so I've just started building that out. And I want to, I just got plugged into their CRM um and really gonna start sinking my teeth into that because I think that's like awful. Yeah, most are um you know, why who has created a CRM for equipment rental, right? That's like I don't know, that's probably not a huge thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:23

Put that eye on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, I'm just gonna start getting that figured out. So it's like, yes, I was hired for sales, and yes, I am exciting, excited to use my sales experience and go make some money and and do that, but I'm very excited to see if I can't just systemize that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:38

Tinker with a business where everything doesn't rely on you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

Yeah, well, I just I want to make the I want to make everybody's position a little bit better.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

Like that's I just think that if I make the sales reps positions a little bit better, they're gonna start making more money. You start bringing more money, solves a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:56

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:57

And so I'm just gonna start there. That's how I know to do it, and then uh see if we can't continue moving forward on that. I don't know. Yeah, and again, they're I'm either gonna crush it or get fired. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

Yeah, yeah. No, I just think that we're in a really fun era because we uh have had a lot burned to the ground unwillingly, yeah. Right, with regulation changes and things like that, and then we have also chosen to burn a lot of it to the ground willingly.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

Um, and so I just think that this is kind of in a fun era where we have no obligation, yeah, and nothing but whatever we want in front of us. And so I almost feel like we're in this like era of play again where we for the last three years have just been putting out fires and restabilizing and resituating and arguing, and you know, it's just been like an overall negative headspace. Yeah. And now it feels like, okay, like what am I doing? And there's a lot of moving parts, and maybe there's a little bit more anxiety right now of like what does tomorrow look like? What does six months from now look like? Like, yeah, a lot is shifting, but it's so much more fun to be in this era than everything's burning and everyone hates me, and all the city council members. Yeah, we're gonna have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

We're gonna have a good time. I I told him I'd give them a year. Yeah, um, so we'll see, right? It's just yeah, it is it is weird because this was everything's changed.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

Um, everything. I again have ran my own business for you know 10 years, and and everything is relied on me, and and and that's fun, it's exciting, and I and we we did fine, right? We we were able to build quite a bit. Um, but yeah, so I just I don't know. I just this is a weird, weird feeling for me as well. And I know it's very weird for him too. So I appreciate him giving me that chance and uh see if I can't blow it.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

Uh but I want to talk a little bit about what you're doing right now because that's exciting. Let's let's I know we've we've gone over an hour, but I want to talk a little bit about how Studio Host is doing and and what you're focused on. Yeah, how maybe I'm helping on that as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Yeah, yeah, you're uh wearing many hats right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:06

As I have been for many years. Yeah, we're kind of like two hats though. Three hats. Yeah, it used to be like 20 hats. Yeah. Now my and now it can be an A player for three different teams, yeah. Um versus a D player for 20 different teams.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:22

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Studio Host is celebrating being open for six months. Uh, which is amazing. Um, do I miss Emily? Obviously. Right. Um, but she's off living her uh mom dreams. There you go. And so um, yeah, I just think that Studio Host this first six months has been a lot of fun. Um I think when I started this, like, you know, when we decided to set down the mentorship and and stop teaching, and I wanted to get back into projects themselves, we realized last year that the two slash two and a half projects that we worked on, the model of offering turnkey B and Bs was not infinitely scalable in any stretch of the imagination. And at the end of the day, with turnkey B and Bs, the client can be happy, but the client is never thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

And I I say that because it's like we are never thrilled when we finish a project, even with a black pearl and having it come out as well as it did, it's still like yeah, you know, yeah, that's fair. Um and and projects, it's just especially when you're doing remodels, there's just a million things that can go wrong. And so the timeline bottlenecks to you, the clients exhausted from the expenses that they weren't expecting, and it doesn't matter how many of these BNBs we do, there's just no way that we can anticipate the expenses that are going to come up from starting to rip apart an old house um or dealing with different GCs or different areas, or like there's just so many variables. And so in starting Studio Host, it's like, okay, yes, I can offer interior design services, but and I can like stop offering install, but at the end of the day, when you're offering interior design services, people are buying you, right? Your style, your aesthetic, your expertise, your time. Um, and so although I love design, there is just this cap to it. And I don't even want to say that because you watch companies like SummerLed who have scaled it to something absolutely massive, and the owners of that are obviously not designing each unit themselves, but it's like that's not the interior design firm that I want to like the quality of those projects isn't something that I'm like stoked about. Sure. You know? And so when we talked about starting Studio Hosts back in November of last year, we had really started honing in on the realistic render side of things, and just I didn't even know that there were companies that exclusively offered realistic renders. Um and so when we really started digging into it, I just remember you and I had kind of this like light bulb moment right around Thanksgiving where I was like offering realistic renders is something that the client is gonna walk away from every single time, stoked.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:26

Because you're painting the vision of what the end product is going to be. Yes. And they haven't gone through any of the trauma of unexpected expenses, catch them on the front end, disappointing GCs, broken timeline, flooded basements. Yeah, they they don't have any of the trauma yet. They still you just get that that beginning portion of the project that is the most exciting everyone. You get the honeymoon phase. That is the realistic render. You are just painting that honeymoon phase for them. You are bringing that their reality to life in a way that just leaves everybody everybody's drawing the floor.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:05

Worst case scenario, you gotta ch change out a chair or a picture in a in a photo.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:10

Yes. And so when we started getting a few clients for realistic rendering services alongside our design clients, yeah, it's like the design clients, we would have this incredible relationship with them right at the beginning. We would give them the realistic renders, everybody would be so stoked to start the project, all the things, and then you start getting into the project, and even if we're not project managing it, their tone towards us once they get into the project, when things show up broken, when things show up back ordered, when the GC does something wrong, when the paint doesn't come in the right sheen, when the you know, just the multitude of things that goes wrong, even if it's not our fault and we're not controlling it, they're still coming back to us with that attitude. You know, because it's not our whatever went wrong, it's not our fault, but nonetheless, they're now exhausted, right? Just like we are. It's just part of that process.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:01

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

There's the high at the beginning, and then there's a high after your first full year of running when you see what it's made. But in between the beginning and the end of the first year, it's a lot of stress.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:13

And you just hope that high in the beginning lasts just enough to get to that finish line.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

It's awful.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:20

But you're beat up by the end of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:22

You're pretty beat up.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

And so there's that part of interior design services that I just don't love.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

Yeah, because it it it strains relationships.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:33

And it's it has strained for us relationships, and we're like, man, that sucks. It's like none of that was our fault.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

Yes, you'll have occasionally a dream client. Like I would say 10% of interior design clients come in, they have an unreasonable amount of money, they listen to every single thing you suggest. Yeah, they do exactly what they're told, they install it exactly how you've shown it, and they're not they aren't on some timeline that they've made up in their head.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

You would give that 10%. I think that's like 0.001%.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:07

I can think of two clients.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:08

I can think of two clients out of 50. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:13

Um the rest are and I'm not even trying to hate on the rest because I would put us in the category of the rest.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:22

Yeah, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:23

Like we are also annoyed with ourselves in this situation. Like it is just an annoying process.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:29

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:30

Um, and so I don't want it to seem like I'm talking about it by my clients at any stretch of the imagination. Like the clients are supposed to be asking questions and their feelings are normal, and like, but it just is an exhausting process for the interior designer, and by the end, your relationship is more often than not worse than it was at the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

And even when I get on calls with people who have hired other interior designers who are now coming to us and I ask them about their experience in the past with interior designers, I have yet, which granted, like maybe that's why they're on the call with me, because they're not going back to the previous interior designer, whoever it was, but I'm never hear people sing interior designers' praises.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:08

No. Ever. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:11

Ever. And yeah, so it's just a frustrating industry to be in. Um, and so when we were starting to look at realistic renders, I was like, uh, two things that were really, really important to me were one, I wanted to be able to develop, I wanted to produce something for clients where they left the relationship with me more excited than when they started.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:34

Like I wanted to be surrounded by that energy more often. And then also I wanted something that was infinitely scalable and something that was more easily exitable.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

And didn't require you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:48

Yes. Yeah. Infinitely scalable by not requiring my time and trade for money.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:54

And then exitable in the fact that I could pull myself up myself out of it and sell it one day. And so the we have been pushing realistic renders way more than we have. I mean, we still have plenty of design clients, but but the realistic renders, yeah, that side of the business and incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:16

And it's been kind of an interesting thing to see you shift away, because we were fully geared towards short-term rental. And it's like now we're like the world is so much bigger.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:32

You know, and and now that we're realizing like architects need this, other designers need this, builders need this, developers need this.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:40

Um, and so all of a sudden it took you from you know this to just unlimited.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:46

And now we just got you just got your first commercial client.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:49

So that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:51

Yes. It has been I it's just it's the thing that I'm going to scale and sell.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

Like I maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

I think selling's overrated.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:04

Sell one day. Sure. Yeah, there is no timeline on that. But it it's something that I could sell, I guess. Like that was a big reason why we shifted out of the mentorship. Because like I have seen people sell their communities before. I'm always surprised when somebody buys somebody else's community.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:21

Yeah, that made no sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:23

Because I'm like, if I had paid to be in somebody's program and then they sold it in the middle of it, and now I'm under somebody else, I would be livid. Oh yeah, that's for my money back. I want my money back. I don't know this person. Right. What like I invested in you. Like mentorship, when you are looking for a mentor, you were specifically buying the expertise of that person. Right. And so it just wasn't something that I looked at and said, you know what, this is something that we could sell.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:49

It was completely reliant on me showing up online consistently, me showing up in teaching consistently, me showing up in sales calls because if I'm not on the sales calls, the sales goals percentage goes way down.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:59

Yeah, it didn't go as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:01

Um, yeah, so it just was something that like was making us really great money, but just had a shelf life to it and required all of me. Um and realistic renders are not it's just the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:11

So how plugged in are you on those?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:15

Not it is incredible. It's one of those things that like I don't even know how to create them.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:26

I mean, I do, I know enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:27

You get the idea, but I know how they're able to build it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

Yes, I know how they're created, I know the programs that people need to be qualified for to build them. Um I just the 3D modeling classes when I was in college were my least favorite. Yeah. Like it's just such monotonous work, very detailed work, yeah, that I could not do. And so that was another portion of offering realistic renders that was attractive. It's like I I can't get in it because I won't.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:00

But I've always said, not always, but I've been saying the last few years is like we need a business that we don't know how to do everything on.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:07

Because when you know how to do everything and something goes wrong, you always, always, always default to doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:14

You can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:15

I can't be the solution.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:16

You cannot build these renders.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:19

Like you have you have to rely on that team. And of course, you have to create systems in place because if one of them leaves, um, we don't want to be put in a pinch or anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:30

Um, but it's like that I've been saying that. It's like everybody's like, oh, you gotta, you know, build it from the ground up. Yeah, yeah. In order to, you know, be have a successful hot tub cleaning company, you gotta know how to clean hot tubs. I I know I don't. I just know I need to know how to find people that know how to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:46

Um, so that's exciting. That's super exciting that you've been able to accomplish that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:50

Yeah, because it's like, you know, we aren't we the realistic renders that the team is creating is they're great. Like they are really talented at what they do. But there still are people that are creating these realistic renders that are like you can't even you can't even tell that they're realistic renders, right? And we're not at that level yet. Right. Right? We're working towards it. Um, and so even when it comes to that, it's like, okay, when I find a another realistic render artist online that has some sort of a course to teach people how to do it, I'm like, who has a light week? Do you want to spend 10 hours going through this? I will pay for it. And then will you spend two hours next week talking about the things that we're not doing that we can be implementing? Yeah. And so it's even like when it comes to learning new pieces of technology or new, you know, ways to do it. It's like I it's not valuable for me to know. Right.

unknown 1:27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:44

I just need to know where to find the information and then how to get somebody to implement it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:49

And bring back your findings.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:51

And that's been so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

It's been so much fun. And so, really, my job is just the marketing component of it, yeah, the sales call. To talk through what that process looks like, and then I hand it off. And so it's the first time that I've ever built anything that I haven't felt like I'm selling myself for.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:11

Yeah, I was gonna say I think we can even get you out of the sales fairly quickly. Yeah. That that can be a video.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:17

Yeah. So it just feels like, you know, the first five years of me being entrepreneur, an entrepreneur were very um ego-centered. Like I was the special snowflake in my business. And I, you know, everybody probably goes through that era. Um, I have exited that era, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:38

Yeah. And so that's level two is taking a step back and empowering others.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:44

And letting them figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:46

Yes. So Studio Host so far for the first six months, I just feel like I'm in a lower gear, like I'm building it slower, more intentionally, um, taking the time to train, taking the time to improve, taking the time. And then also at 100% of clients that have hired us for realistic renders, they're on cloud nine.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:11

We send them those final renders, and they are like in all caps. Like, this is the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Holy cow, this is worth every single dime. I'm so glad I did like just the energy you get back for the work you put in, I'm like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:26

How many times did you get that in design?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:28

Not enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:29

Zero. Not enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:31

Not enough. You know, it's like and I get it. I understand why. Because even with my own projects, I feel that. But like I get the only satisfaction from interior design projects that you really get is when you post that final video on social media, and social media is like that's literally like that's what clients fall in love with.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:52

Yes. That right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:54

They didn't see everything that led up to that video.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:58

They see somebody else's project being finished. They see the and all of the end video reveals always go viral.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:05

See the highlight.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

They see the thousands of comments of people being like, This is the greatest thing we've ever seen. And like that reassures me that I've got talent in interior design. But then yeah, the clients get into it and it's they start spending their own money and they start dealing with GCs, and you know, it's just all the things that go wrong during renovations, and then they're like, This is not as sexy as it looked in the 30-second reel that I saw before I hired an interior designer.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:28

Yeah, yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:31

So, real raw, honest truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:33

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:34

So, in a perfect world, I would take on 12 interior design projects a year, do one a month, slow and slow, take my time on you know, 12 beautiful projects a year, yeah, with clients who understand the value of interior design. And ideally, I would like 12 ideal clients that do one project a year. So it's the same 12 clients every single year. And then the rest of the year, all the rest of the business is 100% realistic renders.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:02

Yeah. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:03

Yeah, so just get it there. I would like to be almost exclusively a realistic render company and don't advertise interior design services at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:11

That's right. Yeah. So I guess I get to start calling uh GCs, builders, architects. I get to call people.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:21

What a fun and exciting thing to offer.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:24

Like even the architect on the uh on states. Uh yeah, on the one that you're currently doing on the commercial when you're doing, I mean, they've got to be just mind-blown.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:34

Oh, yeah. Like that's what makes it so fun. Like, this first commercial project that I'm working on, it's one of four buildings that we will design, and it's for Ethan's new boss. Um and he just happened to have bought, you know, four new commercial buildings right as we got here. And and so he sent me the drawings of um the building that they had, you know, the the renderings, I wouldn't even call them renderings. They were like isometric views of the building um that the builders had drawn up for him. And he was like literally drawn. Well, literally drawn with marker, apparently marker, yeah. Well, the first one wasn't, the first one was actually like in CAD. Okay. Um, but not a realistic render, it was just like drawn in CAD. And uh he sends it to me and he's like, I hate this, but I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:28

And I was like, give me three days.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:32

And then like his reaction of the final result that we came up with, both him and his builder. Yeah, he was like, This builder is never gonna do this again for themselves. They're gonna hire you every single time. And I was like, they should.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:45

As they should, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:46

As they should.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:47

And what's been exciting for me is that I've been riding along with these other sales guys, yeah. And they're like, hey, have you talked to Brad at all and all about about Midland? And I'm like, what are you talking about? And they're like, the building that they're building, and I like they'll pull up the photo that I've already seen a hundred times from you, and they go, look at what these doing out there. I'm like, no, kidding, who's doing that? That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:05

Whoever drew that's got a lot of talent.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:07

Yay, we Brett ought to hire that person. And her husband.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:13

It's so fun. It's just you are yes, that's exactly it. It's like that emotional high that you can give people. It's like it's it's creating their vision board for them.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:25

It is pain, it's bringing the image in their head to life.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:28

Yeah. Or better than they better than yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

And so like with Brett, he's like kind of kept to himself in a little like not so much in like a quiet way, but like he doesn't let you know, he doesn't let you know like when he's super excited.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:48

Like he's he's a black cat. Yeah, yeah. And so when I show it to him, he's like, when he replies back, it's just revisions. Right? It's like big red X's on things that he doesn't want, and like you know, it's like back and forth. And I love that because I want somebody to be very honest with me. Um and he will. And so it's like I'll send him this like beautiful thing, and the first thing that he says sends back is something that he wants changed.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:11

But then when I go into the office, it's like every single person has received the video that I sent him 37 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:17

Yeah, he won't ever let you know. He's not gonna let me know. No, no, no, no, no. He'll let everybody else know. He didn't let you know. Keep you guessing.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:25

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:25

Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:26

I love that he's mass sending things that I've sent for.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:29

Everybody, dude, have you seen this? I'm like, no, I hadn't. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:33

But it's like, I mean, when we talked today, it's like having something like that created paints the vision for every single employee that works for you, right? So, like in Airbnb, you're painting this vision for the owner and the future guests if you use it for social media. Um, but for a big corporation, it's like if you are working somewhere and they're gonna be building a new facility, like you are literally painting their five-year vision.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:55

They get to get excited about the fact that they're working.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:58

It might suck today, like the building isn't like exciting or sexy or whatever, but it's going to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:03

But this is where we're going.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:04

This is where we're going.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:05

Yeah. So no, I just think, you know, I grew up loving playing Sims. Yeah. I had a jailbroken Sims. I don't even know what that means. Where it's like you like you had to pay for like upgrades in Sims if you like wanted certain materials or like you were a different tax uh bracket than I was.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:23

We didn't have that.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:24

I had a best friend whose brother was a tech nerd. And so he like had he jailbroke this like Sims game for me, and I was addicted to it. Just absolutely addicted to it. And so when I started interior design school, I was like, they were like, when did you know you wanted to be an interior designer? And I was like, when I became addicted to Sims. And it was like something that like you know, half the class at the time shared that sentiment. But I just feel like now in really diving down the realistic round rabbit hole, I'm just like feeding that you know eight-year-old girl that was obsessed with Sims.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:55

There you go. Let's build a business out of it and uh help a lot of people make a lot of money. Yeah, so we have talked.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:03

We're at an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:05

Yeah, so you know, I wanted to give the people a break. Um, I know we haven't talked in a while and we had a lot to share, but we ought to It's the first time in the last 10 years that you're not having to live side by side every day. Yeah, the lady running this thing is probably like, just go home. Yeah, you probably said an hour, let's get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:22

Literally. Um, all right. Well, it was great catching up. If you have made it an hour and a half into this listening to us yap about the whirlwind that we have been in for the last two months.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:34

We see you, we appreciate you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:37

Um, and we will catch you guys on the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:41

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:42

See ya.