WBD Recruiting Success Stories: Alexandre de Gramont

Today’s episode is part of our Recruiting Success stories series. Lori Patton, our Chief Recruiting Officer, sits down with Alex de Gramont, a partner in the Business Litigation Group, and leader of the firm’s International Disputes Practice. 

Transcript

Intro (00:00)

Welcome to Womble Perspectives, where we explore a wide range of topics, from the latest legal updates to industry trends to the business of law. Our team of lawyers, professionals and occasional outside guests will take you through the most pressing issues facing businesses today and provide practical and actionable advice to help you navigate the ever-changing legal landscape.

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Welcome back to Womble Perspectives and another episode of our Recruiting Success stories series. Lori Patton, our Chief Recruiting Officer, sits down with Alex de Gramont, a partner in the Business Litigation Group, and leader of the firm’s International Disputes Practice.

We hope you enjoy today’s episode.

Lori Patton (00:59)

I'm here today with Alex de Gramont. Alex joined our firm in the DC office recently, and we'd like to hear a little bit more from you, Alex, as we think about your reasons for joining Womble and understanding more about your practice. So welcome.

Alex De Gramont (01:21)

Thank you. It's great to be here. Great to see you as always.

Lori Patton (01:24)

Glad to see you as well. So, Alex, let's start at the very beginning in terms of what clients really turn to you for when they are in need of help. So, tell us a little about your practice.

Alex De Gramont (01:39)

Yeah, so my practice is focused entirely on cross border disputes, international disputes. I do a little bit of domestic litigation, but for the most part, either my clients or their adversaries are in different countries. So, the focus is on international arbitration, both commercial and treaty based. The commercial arbitration cases typically arise out of contracts, say a US party and a German party or Italian party or Croatian party, and the investor state, the treaty arbitrations arise out of investment treaties. So, I am typically representing an investor against a foreign government. And then I also do the related litigation. Once you have an international arbitration award, or for that matter a foreign judgment, sometimes you need to enforce it in the US courts. So, we do enforcement work as well.

Lori Patton (02:45)

So, Alex, when you were looking and making a decision to make a shift, tell us a little bit about what precipitated your decision and what led to you to actually look for other opportunities.

Alex De Gramont (03:06)

So I was very happy at my prior firm. It was an AmLaw 40 firm, great culture, terrific people, but there were a few things that led me to look elsewhere. Part of it, frankly, was that I wanted, my clients wanted more rate flexibility. I wanted the opportunity to build a practice in the shape that I wanted it to be built in. And the fact that the firm is in growth mode, that it's very ambitious, and that it has really enthusiastic ambitions for international growth. 

All of that was what I was looking for and what attracted  me. And of course, for me, culture was essential and the firm has a really wonderful culture. You know, I thought that during the interview process and that certainly has been confirmed after I joined.

Lori Patton (04:12)

So, I'd like to dive into a couple of the comments that you made, Alex. First, talk a little more about your description of the culture at Womble. Because every firm has culture. How would you really define at a granular level the culture that you experienced at Womble?

Alex De Gramont (04:37)

It is a remarkably friendly, unpretentious in a good way. It feels to me like a partnership when I first started practicing over 30 years ago. It's very cohesive that there's not the same sort of hierarchy, there's not the same sort of difference between a newly minted partner and the most senior partner or the chair of the firm. 

It's a big place, right? It's bigger than my old firm, but it feels like a small place. It does not feel like a big, gigantic law firm. And that's true, I think even, you know, at the partners and counsel retreat, when we had so many people together, it still felt small and, you know, cozy.

Lori Patton (05:33)

I love that. I've been here for 22 years and I can say that many of your descriptors are similar to the ones I would choose as well. You had also used the term ambitious that you saw Womble as an ambitious firm. Again, I would love to drill down into what you've seen, what you saw as you were looking at our firm, and now that you're here, what do you see that helps define that ambition?

Alex De Gramont (06:05)

There were all these new laterals in new areas of practice. There was a fairly newly minted Latin America practice, the firm was obviously in the process of the Lewis Roca merger, so that showed the desire to add new practices.

And you know, we're not that far off the merger with Bond Dickinson in England. So, you know, it wasn't that long ago that I thought of Womble as a North Carolina firm. And I pretty quickly learned that it is a global firm with aspirations to become even more global and more diverse in its practice areas.

Lori Patton (06:55)

You ultimately chose Womble, and I know you had many different opportunities. When you made that ultimate decision, at that point obviously you weren't in the fold, but what was the final deciding factor or the factors that led you to commit to Womble?

Alex De Gramont (07:14)

So, a lot of it was my gut. I just like the people. I like the culture. I like the firm. On a more practical level, it had a really good mix of practices that I need to serve my clients. Mining practice, energy practice, life sciences. It just had all the pieces, both on an emotional level and an intellectual level.

Lori Patton (07:44)

You mentioned that not only are these practices important to you, but you've touched a couple of times on the global component. And of course, that is critical to your international dispute practice. How have you experienced the quite literal inner workings of connecting with international clients and working with fellow US partners who have international work, as well as working across borders with our own UK folks. Tell us a little bit more about what that experience has been like for you and the comfort that you've had to be at Womble as you've truly served international clients day to day.

Alex De Gramont (08:39)

So, the firm is incredibly well integrated. I was told that when I was in the recruiting process and when I came here, I realized it was, it's part of the culture to work across practices, across offices. It's very easy to staff people with particular expertise on a case.

You know, the truth is I think you don't need to have offices all around the world to be an international arbitration or international disputes firm. Part of it is it's almost more about the mindset than about the geography. So, recognizing that you have to have practitioners who have international arbitration expertise, have international disputes expertise and who really want to deploy it in connection with other practice areas, with other types of expertise. Working with the people in the UK has been great. They have a very similar culture to ours. Easy to work with, eager to work across offices and across the Atlantic.

There are so many people here at the firm who have this great international network. There are lawyers here who know lawyers virtually everywhere. And of course, the LexMundi network is very helpful for that as well.

Lori Patton (10:19)

As you think about the important factors for any lateral who is out there today considering the different things that might impact a lateral move, in your opinion, what are some of the important things that laterals need to consider and how does Womble measure up against those important factors?

Alex De Gramont (10:47)

Yeah, for me, I really wanted a firm that had all the different types of practices that would support my practice. I wanted a firm that was willing to take those pieces, the pieces it had, and add new pieces that understood what it is to grow a new practice.

I was looking for a firm that wanted to build this practice that had the pieces, some of the pieces, and that had the resources and the desire to build it up even more.

And culture, for me at least, is a critical component.

Lori Patton (11:21)

When you think about those important lateral functions that people might be looking for, similar to what was important to you, what are some of the other key components that might be your why Womble today in terms of the things that you've learned about, whether that's in leadership or opportunities to market?

Maybe it's financial stability, could be any number of things. What are some of the things that you've now learned once you're inside, under the tent, that you want to be sure potential laterals also know about?

Alex De Gramont (12:02)

I think a lot of firms make promises. This firm really does everything it can to keep them. I came with a relatively new practice, I was given the title of “Head of International Disputes,” which helped me pull all the disparate pieces already here together. The marketing resources are fantastic. I've gotten everything that I've asked for. And when the firm says it wants to build a practice, a new practice, it's really serious about that. It's not looking for new books of revenues, it's looking to become the best firm it possibly can be for its clients. And it wants to diversify those clients and it wants to expand the practices available to the clients and to, and frankly, to expand our geographic reach without necessarily having offices in every single country.

Lori Patton (13:21)

A lot of times laterals will come in and observe that we punch above our weight when it comes to various client opportunities. Have you seen that? And if so, how would you describe what that means to come to Womble and have the opportunity to punch above your weight?

Alex De Gramont (13:42)

Well, I've always loved to punch above my weight and the firm certainly does that. The client base is really extraordinary. The number of Fortune 100 companies and the work that the firm does is incredibly sophisticated. And I’ll be candid, I hadn't heard that much about Womble when I was looking. 

And so the client base and the quality of the lawyering and the number of lateral partners who came from, you know, the AmLaw 50 was amazing and rewarding.

Lori Patton (14:26)

Tell me about that when you say rewarding. Is that because you had come from an environment with an exceptional law firm and yet you were able to join this one and find that you still had sophisticated fellow partners doing sophisticated client work?

Alex De Gramont (14:45)

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there were a number of, there were people that I had dealt with at my prior firm who I knew from when I was at an AmLaw 50 firm. Some of them were in-house. Some of them were at other firms at the time. And I don't feel like I've given up anything in terms of the quality of the lawyering, the breadth and quality of the client base. And so, you know, if you're looking to build, if you're looking to grow both yourself and practice, this is a pretty great place to do it.

Lori Patton (15:30)

You also previously mentioned the opportunity to co-lead the firm’s International Dispute Practice. So in that leadership role, tell me about the opportunities that you believe that leadership role will provide, or maybe it already has. And the second piece is how do you see leadership opportunities positively impacting your client relationships and the client work.

Alex De Gramont (16:04)

Yeah. For me, it was the ability to lead and shape the practice in a way that would best serve my clients. You know, in candor, the leadership structure here is relatively flat. There's not a huge amount of hierarchy or bureaucracy. I think that anybody who wants to step up into a leadership position can do that. Anybody who wants to create a new practice that the firm wants to have can carve out a leadership position for him or herself. And so that combination of flexibility and desire for strategic growth and diversifying the practice is a perfect combination for people like me who wanted to build a practice as they envisioned it, as they thought it should be.

Lori Patton (17:14)

And last question, which is a bit of a departure from the professional questions. When we think about all of the rich interests that our partners have, give us a little bit of a peek into the things that you enjoy, whether that's relaxation time on vacation or the weekend. Tell us about Alex de Gramont's opportunities personally to grow and relax.

Alex De Gramont (17:45)

So I don't know if you know this, Laurie, but I'm a drummer. 

Lori Patton (17:50)

I love that – tell me more about that. Where did you play and what did you play?

Alex De Gramont (17:57)

I’ve played since I was 12 and I took a long break from it. And I started it again a few years ago. And I was really delighted to find out how many musicians there are here. And Veronica Renzi, who joined us from another firm in DC about six months ago, is a singer. And she found out I was a drummer, and she asked me to join her band. So, we played together just this last weekend. So, we play at Veronica's house because her son happens to have a drum set, so I don't have to move mine. And it's really pretty eclectic. Someone came up with the name “The Ramblers,” which I think is fantastic. 

And, you know, I guess maybe if I were my son's age, I wouldn't say eclectic, but we play everything from the Rolling Stones to U2, to Radiohead. So, I guess what it has in common, all that music probably comes more or less from before when my children were born. But within those criteria, I think it's a pretty interesting mix of stuff.

Lori Patton (19:21)

I love knowing that about you. I feel like we spent some time getting to know each other in the recruiting process, but this clearly did not come up. Any other areas of community investment or interests that are important to you?

Alex De Gramont (19:40)

Well, I sort of have two main communities, one of which is my work community and the other which is my community of friends and family. And there is the ability here to strike a reasonable life balance to the extent that's possible in any legal practice. But, you know, I mean, my wife really likes the people she has met at various events. You know, I get along really well with the people here. I mean, the fact that I was at Veronica's house playing drums last weekend speaks a lot for them.

Lori Patton (20:22)

Absolutely, and we spend so much time at work. Isn't it lovely to be able to connect and develop that kind of relationship.

Alex De Gramont (20:33)

It really is wonderful and gratifying and fun.

Lori Patton (20:37)

I love knowing that. Well, Alex, thanks so much for spending time with us today and giving us a little bit of a window into your experience as you considered Womble and then made the decision to join. We really appreciate you sharing all that.

Alex De Gramont (20:55)

Well, thank you so much for having me, Lori. It was fun.

Lori Patton (20:59)

Thanks so much, Alex.

Outro (21:00)

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