Helping our children through their fears and anxieties with Shelley Clarke

It's heartbreaking to watch our children have fears and anxieties in life, but how do we help them? In this episode of the Mind, Body, parenting podcast listen as Shelley shares some brilliant tools and techniques to help our children and empower ourselves as parents to help our children when they're frozen with fear.
 
In this episode you'll learn about:
- Why looking at the environmental circumstances and developmental age first is key
- Asking yourself as a parent what this fear brings up in you
- Different attachment play games to help open up the conversation with your kids
- How to know when to set a loving limit and when to acquiesce
- The power of telling our children stories that involve overcoming fears... and so much more!

If you want to help your child actually move through their feelings when it comes to fears and anxieties and empower their resilience, then this is the podcast episode for you!

21 days of play course

Continue the conversation with Shelley here:
https://www.facebook.com/shelleyclarkemindbodyparenting
https://www.instagram.com/_shelleyclarke_/

This podcast is produced by Nikki O'Brien from Quintessential Being

Transcript

 Shelley Clarke  00:00

I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands I live on. I pay my respects to the Kaurna people elders past and present, and honour their ongoing traditions. Welcome to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. Here I talk about all things mind and body and how this relates to ourselves and our parenting. I envision a world where children are seen and heard, and parents feel supported and less alone. Join me here in the power of story, expert knowledge and lived experiences. Let's dive in.

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Today's episode is brought to you by kids in Adelaide, for all the best events, activities, places to visit and things to do with your kids in Adelaide and around South Australia, visit www.kidsinadelaide.com.au. 

Welcome back to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke and today, it's another solo episode from me. And I want to talk all about how we can help our children through their fears and anxieties and worries. I know I've been having this conversation several times in the last week or so. And so I thought, well, I feel like I'm repeating this conversation. And it might be helpful for some of you out there in how we can help our children through things that they're worried about, or things that they're scared of. Because there are some brilliant tools to help our children and empower parents to be able to help our children when our kids might be frozen with fear or anxieties or whatever it might be. So I hope this is going to be helpful for someone out there. And I've got a few things that I want to talk about first, before we go into the tools or the things that I would do with my kids. First of all, I just wanted to talk a little bit about, I would use these tools for any sort of fears or worries or concerns things like a fear of dogs, or a fear of swimming lessons or anxieties around starting something new like a sporting thing, worries or concerns or fears that kids might develop around like bedtimes and scatter the dark or monsters or, you know, kids will develop fears and concerns or worries about any number of things. So whatever your child is worried about as you are listening to this podcast, you can adapt these tools and strategies to whatever it is that your child is scared of. And we will all have something all of our kids will have something that they are worried about, or anxious about or scared about. And so I'll talk a bit more about the what we can do later on. And I also wanted to say that before diving into the strategies, a little bit more about this is a dance. And often as we're helping our children through really hard things and helping them feel their fear and their worry and, and terror, that this is often a dance between helping them do that hard thing and moving through those feelings. And, you know, looking at making sure that they're having lots of choice and autonomy. So is this something that they're scared off? Because they're not developmentally ready for whatever it is that we're wanting them to do? So I would always be looking at the child's environment, child's developmental age, is this something that we are wanting them to do? Or is this something that they are really wanting to do, and they're scared or worried or something's happened and they, you know, need to move through their feelings. So things that I would always look at before diving into the tools are things like their developmental age, sometimes, you know, our kids might have some separation anxiety around drop offs for childcare, or kindy, or school. Now, that's actually probably developmentally appropriate and normal for a child to find it really hard to separate from a parent, because we're not made to really do that, at that age. These tools will be very helpful still to with our children's fears and anxieties. But also, I wanted to just kind of mention before diving into the strategies, let you know, I would always look at the environments that our kids are in, is it too overwhelming and too much for the for their little nervous systems and their bodies and, you know, are there ways that we can lessen that overload and overwhelm for them and I'm really sending everyone So much love that listening to this because I know sometimes we just have to our family situations and our work situations and whatever's needed that we need to use childcare, and you know, and have our kids in, in places, you know, from young ages and things like that. So, but I did want to mention that, you know, sometimes our kids can have fears and anxieties come up, because we're asking them to do things that are developmentally, you know, a lot for whatever age they're at. And that's always probably one of the first things that I look at, is like, well, actually, is that kid, that's really finding it hard to separate from a parent, you know, that's actually really, really developmentally normal, not age appropriate. And I don't really love using the word normal, but you know, age appropriate? And so looking at that, you know, can you lessen the load on their little systems? And can you change the environment? Or is this something that you really want the child to do, but they actually don't really want it. So is there fears or anxieties around swimming lessons, but actually, were the ones pushing the swimming lessons. And they it's just too much for them, it's too noisy, it's too loud. And they, they're little, they would rather, you know, have fun and go to the beach or have fun and jump in the pool with you, as opposed to, you know, doing a swimming lesson with a stranger or, you know, five or six other kids that splash or whatever it might be so looking at, is this scenario, us pushing our kids beyond their developmental age? Or is it actually something that the child really wants to do, and there's fears and things cropping up that we can help them through so that they can then do what it is that they're wanting to do. They're not limited by their own fears kicking in. So always looking at the developmental age of the child. But then also our stuff like, one are we are we the ones driving, whatever it is, and that actually, they don't feel like they have choice, they don't, they feel like they've been made to do something that they don't really want to do. And I know swimming lessons is a big one for many people, because we feel like, you know, we live in Australia. And you know, we're at the beach, and we really want our kids to learn to swim. And I really get that, but also knowing that our kids do tend to learn things when they are ready. And really trusting our child and trusting our child's process around things. So sometimes, you know, fears and anxieties are there because a kid it's too overwhelming for a child. And so looking at that and thinking, Well, maybe it's that we actually pause the swimming lessons or pause the piano lessons or whatever it might be and have a break for a while and come back to it in six months, a year, two years time, when they are developmentally more mature and ready and able to manage all the things and all the inputs and sensory inputs and all the instructions and all the things that come with whatever they might be doing. And so I would always look at that for parents. First is looking at the environment, looking at their developmental age, looking at whether it's our thing, or if it is actually something that is driven by them. We've got a little a little example that just comes to mind is that a few years ago, probably three years ago, when my daughter just turned five, we went out to nippers or surf Surf Lifesaving nippers, and she did a come and try wasn't really that interested in it? And was like, Nah, I don't really want to do it. Just kind of wasn't, wasn't ready. Now, I had the feeling that she would actually really love it that trusted her. And I thought no, okay, if you don't want to do it, I'm not going to it's not, you know, we can, we don't need to do it. And so we didn't, we didn't push her, we didn't force it. And three years later, this just this year, she was like I really want to go out and do surf. And she has absolutely loved it. And so

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it's just a little example, if we had if I had an agenda if I had a vision for my child, if I was the one really wanting to push serve, could have persisted when she was five and you know, going through kind of like the the meltdowns and listening to the crying and the feelings and doing these play things that I would suggest but actually, what was best was to pause and come back to it when she was ready if she ever even wanted to come back to it. So trusting our children's callings or our children's yeses and noes and what and giving them like lots of choice and autonomy around what they wanted to do. is where I would always start. Because, and I've seen this over and over again with my children is that and other parents that I work with is that sometimes it's just trusting the timing, or most of the time, it's trusting their timing. And you know, she's love serve this year and has thrived in it and got more confident. And, and it just meant that it was a few more years until she really was like, I want to do this. And so that's just a little example of what I'm talking about in terms of developmentally ready, trusting your child, looking at it as if it isn't your thing that you're, you know, really want your child to do? Or is it actually their thing that they are really, really keen to do? And you want to help them through their fears that that might be might be kicking up? So looking at that first. Alright, so once we've looked at the development, and is it theirs? Is it mine? The other thing that I would always talk to parents about before any sort of game ideas and listening to feelings and things, is what is ours in the scenario as well. And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know that this is sort of a place that I always start. Because sometimes our children's fears and anxieties or worries, we there's an element of that kicking up for us as well. What does that remind us of, you know, if, if our child is scared of trying new things, and we really want them to try new things, and they just are terrified to do it. So they never, you know, they never try anything new? Or does that remind you of anything, it does anything come up for you around trying something new, or was there a time in your life where you did try something new and, and something happened that was hurtful or painful. And so looking at what that reminds us of, and even just yesterday, this isn't, again, another little story that just popped into my mind yesterday, we were coming back from a family holiday, a family trip, weekend away, and 10 minutes before we got to the airport, my son who's four was like, I need to go the toilet, ma'am. And he was it was busting and we couldn't really stop we're in the we're in traffic. You know, we were like getting closer and closer to check in time. And, and so we really needed to get to the airport, we couldn't couldn't pull over on the side of road, that's like three lane highway. And so I just said, mate, we're gonna hold, like you're doing great. And I was trying to play games and listen and and play with him. But I could feel this anxiety in my body. Because like that feeling of busting to the toilet, and you know, not being able to go. And it really reminded me of a time that I went travelling in through Asia. And we I was, I think we're in Cambodia or Vietnam somewhere with some friends and we're on a bus and, you know, winding through these mountains and there was nowhere to go the toilet and I was so busting for the last 1520 minutes before getting into this new little village. And so in the car yesterday, he was like jiggling around and busting in saying Mom, Mom, I can't hold any longer. I could feel this, this anxiety in me and I was really stressed. I was really like, I know, I know my it's really hard you got to hold. I wasn't doing a great job of like keeping the situation calm, because it was taking me right back to that. That feeling I know the feeling of you know, busting to the toilet and not having anywhere to go. And I could feel the tension in my own body. Just because it was reminding me of that memory just popped back into my mind that whole time. And so it's always a place to start. This is where I start with parents is like, well, what does it remind you of? What does it bring up for you when you're talking about when you're helping your kid go out to start foot football or netball or sport and they're really scared? Or if they're scared of a certain thing? Are you scared of the dark? Are you scared of reading in front of a classroom of people? You know, we can help our children through hard things and help them through their fears and anxieties. But also what does it remind us of what is what does it come up for us and having a listening partner or a space? There's journal prompts in last two podcasts ago. There's you know, looking at this prompts and like what, what does it bring up for us? What does it remind us of you writing it down is helping your children through their fears of swimming or fear of water really hard because it reminds you of when you were little and maybe a parent just threw you in the pool or throw you in the deep end and when you can swim go for and it just sent you into a free state and you're really scared and you know, what does it remind you of? There was a time am a probably a couple of months ago, actually, we were at the pool was a local pool in my hometown. And you know, some friends were there. And there's a whole pile of kids jumping in the pool and they were playing and they were playing with a mat, like a, just a foam mat in the pool. And every time a couple of kids went underneath the mat, I got really nervous. I was like, oh, gosh, I got you know, I

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was like, okay, okay, guys, you know, watch out for the thing underneath the mat. But not many of the other parents were like too concerned about it. And I was like, Ah, this is my anxiety, because it was reminding me of a time that I got caught underneath a floaty device on the river. And I, you know, was underneath this device. Now, it was only, you know, a short period of time. But it was a bit scary. And so, you know, anytime I'm come up underneath something, can you can't find your way out? It brings up an anxiety in me, what does it remind me of? It reminds me of the time that I was scared doing the same thing. And so really looking at what is ours in this scenario, because once I'd said it twice, and no other parent had said it, I was like, Okay, everyone else is pretty cool. Here, this kid can go underneath the mat, and they're fine. And everyone else seems pretty chill about it. So actually, this is mine, okay. And then I could talk to the little part in me, that was really worried and was feeling a bit scared and was feeling a bit like, I can't breathe, and where's the water, you know, I'm underneath something. So I actually, in that scenario, could tell that that was mine, and actually said to the other parents, like, Oh, I think this is mine. This is really stressing me out having all these kids jump on this mat, and you know, worried that they're going to pop up underneath that. And actually, that was mine, my anxiety, so checking in with myself and going so cachalia, there's a fine, they're in like, you know, a metre of water, it's in the shallow end of the pool, we're watching them, it's safe, we can, you know, really using my inner loving presence processes or using your self talk or whatever strategies, you have to settle my body down so that then I wasn't passing on my anxieties, to my children or the children, you know, that we were watching. So really looking at what's yours. And then we can come into these these strategies, or these games and things that we can do to help our children through their fears. Okay, so we've checked their environment, we'll check their developmental age, we've checked whether or not this is our thing that we're kind of placing on them, are we giving them enough choice and autonomy? And is this something that is really theirs, we've then also worked through our own fears with the listening partnership, or with journaling, or even in the moment, just using whatever tools we have the inner loving presence process or talking to ourselves to really settle our own bodies. And it might mean that we need to have a big big cry of the times that we weren't supported through our fears and anxieties growing up. And, you know, once we've offloaded our own feelings, we can then come in and use these things with our children. And so what I would then do now is once I've checked off all those things, and I know that that was 20 minutes of me sharing it, but those steps can happen pretty quickly, then I would map out or plan ways that we can help our children through their fears or anxieties. So, you know, for example, it might be that your child really, really really does love surf, but there's something's happened, maybe they've fallen off the board, maybe they've been tumbled over maybe, you know, maybe there's they're scared of, you know, stingrays, sharks, or fish or something in the environment. So there is when our children really want to do something. But they are often scared or worried, or there's been an overwhelming incident, and they've got feelings that they're still carrying and holding in their bodies. So how can we help our children to feel those feelings and then move through that experience, so they don't hold it in their bodies anymore. And then that experience has been integrated into their system, and then they are able to do whatever it is that they were wanting to do. They're able to do the swimming lessons, they're able to be okay, around the dogs, they're able to join in with whatever it might be. So what are the actual tools and strategies or ways that I would approach this? First of all, it would be play, and then second would be listening to the feelings and so play can be anything from power reversal games, where we wanting to get giggling going, and I'll give some examples of this in a minute. symbolic play where we play out the scenario. And again, I'll talk about some examples in a minute. And so any of the attachment play ideas and ways of, of really using children will use play, to play out the scenario and to integrate that experience into their being, and then it's no longer an issue. And then they're able to do whatever it is that they were worried about. And so play would be where I would always start with this with our kids, because it gives them a chance to laugh. And laughter is a wonderful way of helping our children to feel lighter fears. So often, laughter really helps our children process fear, embarrassment, that sort of awkward kind of tension that we have. It's why joking and laughing, we all do it, it really helps to laugh away some of those, those lighter fears. And then what I find is, there's often a big cry about whatever it is, there's really scared of underneath those light fears. Now, sometimes play is enough, and it really helps our children and they're able to do the thing. But they're often might be some, you know, a big, big cry, somewhere in there as well to help our children feel those feelings. So my first point of call is always play. And some kids will find symbolic play really easy, where they roleplay out the scenario, and they'll say, Okay, I'll be the teacher, and you'll be the kid. Or I'll be the swimming instructor, and you'll be in the water, or you'll be the dog, and I'll be the owner. And so what you can see in this scenario, when you're helping your children through fear and anxiety, or if they've been scared of something, you as the parent want to take on the less powerful role, and you want them to be in that more powerful role. So it's a power reversal game, as well. But in that more powerful role, they get to control the scenario, they get to have it how they wanted it to be, they get to boss you around or play out whatever it might be. And so when I'm playing these things with my children, I will suggest maybe, or I'll open up a conversation and this is how I approach it like a conversation, I'll say, Hey, do you want to play schools? Or do you want to play trains? Do you want to play dogs? Do you want to play food or dinner, if they're really scared about eating certain foods, or, you know, I would actually open up a conversation, I would set around some time. And it might be like 1520 minutes, where you can kind of dedicate some time with your child, preferably without interruptions and those sort of things, but being there with them and thinking and approaching it like a conversation and you are wanting to be in the less powerful, powerful role you wanting them to be in the more powerful role. And they will take it where they need to, you are wanting to follow their lead, and you are also wanting to follow their giggles. So if somewhere along the line, it's you trying to ham it up, and you know, do some funny, silly, goofy things that they giggle at, you keep doing that, because it's the laughter, that is the emotional release part. It's the laughter that is helping them to process the feelings that they're carrying around, whatever it might be. And so the conversations that I've had in the last couple of weeks with parents have been around, you know, they may have used strategies to help their children through whatever the scenario is that they're that they're going through at the moment, where they've talked to their child, and this is, you know, children from like, 5678 years old, maybe older, where they've used strategies that approach the the mental aspect, or the thinking part where, you know, you've you've talked through the scenario and you've said, Well, is that actually a rational fear or rational thought and when you start to feel scared, here's the things that we're going to do. We're going to take a couple of deep breaths and we're gonna breathe and we, you know, you can do it and let's stay positive, you know, you might have been trying these things, and have got to the point where, like, we don't know what else to do, because it's not working. And it's really similar with talk therapy with adults, we can talk through a lot of things we can rationalise, and we can, you know, we can have strategies that are directed at that mental level. And that can be wonderful for Adam. I was in therapy. But what I have found and what has been beneficial for me and many others is that that still doesn't address the physiological response or the bodily response or our somatic experience. So our Soma is the body. And so we often store the feelings that from that time of, you know, anything that we haven't been able to process we hold in the body. And so we can have all these mental strategies of like, when when I feel like this, I'm going to do this, this and this. But other, what I find is the missing piece often is that we want to feel the feelings through the body, we want to be able to move and shake and dance and laugh and cry and have that expression. And once we've been able to move that, which is our normal and natural response and mechanism to recover from stress and overwhelm, then our children are okay. And so if you have tried a lot of the others, and those those strategies that we help our children through a helpful, it's good to have information and things to try. And, you know, the information like well, is that really irrational thought there's not really monsters under the bed. And, you know, we can talk through things. But what we're doing here with these play, ideas and games, and what I'm wanting to add to your toolkit is how we can help our children move through their fears and process it through their body and express it. And then it's often shifted, it's often held differently, once they've had that experience validated, and they feel heard and seen, and they've been able to express it, they're no longer scared of it, and they can then do the thing that they're wanting to do. So with these play ideas, and with laughter, it's the following their giggles, that is helpful, because they're laughing off the fear basically, or they're laughing about the thing that they're scared of. And often you as the parent are in that less powerful role, that they get to laugh about feeling powerless or feeling the fear or that they get to laugh off that kind of tension that they're holding in their bodies. And so I often with parents, when I talk about play in these scenarios, it's really common instinct for us as parents to play out what we want our child to do, or play out how we would like our child to be. And so if we're playing out, say, school, or swimming, or if we're playing out

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a surf scenario, or whatever it might be, we might then be at all brave, and say, Okay, this is how I'm going to be, I'm going to jump on the board. And look, I can do this really easily. And we as the parent, you know, we can act out how we want that to go. But what that often misses the mark a little bit with our kids, because one, it's not their experience. And so they often may not feel heard or understood by you. And also, it doesn't give them a chance to laugh and giggle and use the giggling as the emotional release part. And so it's helpful for parents to understand that when we're playing in this way, we're playing to help them shift the emotions and feel the feelings and it's that emotional release, it's the process that we're going through, to help feel those feelings and shift them. That's the helpful part. And then often, what, what comes out of that is the child comes up with their own strategies, and the child comes up with like, Okay, I'm ready to do this now. And they, they just often go and do whatever it might be. So hopefully, that's a helpful understanding that you that we are, we're playing in this way to help our children with that emotional process. And so you as the parent want to be that less powerful role. You want to be the fumbling bumbling one, if they're really scared, act scared, but hang it up, hang it up in a way where you're goofy, you're silly, there's a bit of nonsense, they get to laugh that, you know, you can't do the thing. So if your kid is scared of doing a talk in front of the class, play out that scenario and you be really, really scared to get up in front of the class and speak and maybe you are shaking and shaking and shaking and you fall over. And whatever you do. That is funny. You just keep doing that same thing. And so we've played this several years ago when my son was scared of dogs And I said, Okay, let's play dogs. And he then, you know, you might suggest the thing and see where your child rolls with it, because they will just take the lead. And so he was like, Okay, I'm going to be the owner, and you're the dog. And I was like, okay, so then I was pretending to be a dog, I was huffing and puffing and panting around the bedroom. And he said, Sit. And so I said, see it. And then he said, Roll over. So I rolled over. And we, you know, we played this game. And then at one point, he said, We on the blocks. And so I ran over to the blocks and pretended to way on the blocks, as this dog, and he just thought that was hilarious. And we probably did that same thing, we on that block, we on that block, we on that block, we did it over and over again, and he was rolling back in laughter. And then then the dog fell asleep. And he was the owner, and he was petting the dog. And we probably played for about 15 minutes, this scenario. And then that same night, we went to a friend's house who had a dog, and normally he would clean to my leg for most of the night. But about halfway through the night, he says, my mom looked at me, and we look over and he's patting the dog. And we were amazed and shocked. And I was like, wow, this is how he you know, he just did that on his own accord. And then I put the two and two together that we had played this game, just before going out, it was a coincidence, I didn't even know that you know that the family, we're going to have a dog. So it wasn't until afterwards that I went, we played that game, and then it was okay. And this has been the same thing for swimming lessons. You know, when we were doing swimming lessons a few years ago, he was the teacher and told me that I was the student. And we played out the scenario, I was really scared to put my head under and dive down. And kids will say, you do this be scared of diving down, they will tell you what they're worried about. And you just do it and act it up and hammer it up and you know, put your best acting lessons on and play out whatever it might be. And just as a little side note there about that is that when we're playing in this way, we

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we don't want our children to feel like we are mocking them, we don't want them to feel like we're teasing them or so you know, you have to navigate that depending on on your child and how sensitive or you know, you will know your child best. And sometimes they might they you might try something in the game and they're like, No, I don't want that. Or they go no, or you can feel them, you know, they might actually be a little bit scared or something in the game. And we don't want to, it's not about scaring them, or wanting them to we wanting them to be in a more powerful role. So they're in control of the game. It's not about if they're scared, we can say oh, sorry, I didn't mean to scare you, and you keep going with the game in some other way or a different direction. Same with, we want to be the ones that they get to mock us and that they are you know, pretend teasing us and, you know, ways to play where you are in the less powerful position and you so you don't want your child to feel like they're being mocked and that is a individual thing. But just be aware of that it's you know, it's not kind of joking and teasing and things like that. It's because that can be more hurtful for a child. But it's actually that they get to laugh and giggle at you being silly and bumping your head or falling over or not being able to read or not being able to do the thing. And they get to laugh and laugh and laugh about it. So I just wanted to kind of add that in as a bit of a side note as well. Okay, so other things that you know, you can you can adapt this to anything if you know, if you're, if your child has had a time where they've fallen off a bike, and then now they're really scared to get back on the bike, then you could play that out and you would get on the pretend bike and fall off and be scared and maybe they get to like, push you off the bike and wobble and you fall off and kids know that you are playing you get to play out things in in attachment play that you know so don't don't be afraid if you know the child's pushing you and you go you know falling off. They know that it's play and I know that it's processing important things for them. They then don't go and push kids off bikes. So I know that is another concern around playing this wave for parents they often say I don't want my kids to learn that pushing people's okay. And I would say that kids learn this as a process. And just on the weekend actually my kids we will with friends and and they actually can now see this doing doing this process with There are other siblings or with younger children or with friends where they're trying to be the one, you know, being silly and pretending and to help help younger kids. And so I just, when I see this happen, it means that it just warms my heart because I'm like, Oh, they get the process, kids really know that you are playing and that you're playing to help them through their feelings. And so, you know, if your kids are worried about catching a train and worried about getting lost somewhere, maybe they've been lost, or maybe they've seen a scenario that that was scary for them, and now they're clean to your leg, whenever you're on a train, or whenever you are, out at a big event or something, you know, you can play out these scenarios, and it'll take whatever form it needs to for your child, and really trust and follow their lead and follow their laughter. Other little examples, you know, when, when, with a COVID virus, COVID and Corona, my kids played, they were the virus and they had to come and chase me around the house. And when they got me I was like a little and like, sort of rolling around on my back with my hands and legs in the air. And I thought that was hilarious. So you can play out anything that your kids are really worried about. I've had a client B, a child be really scared of, of a TV programme that they watch, which is actually for kids, but there was a scary shape on this TV programme, and with eyes and a mouth. And so then this kid was really scared of that shape. And anytime, you know, that TV show got mentioned, and that shape, you know, really scared of, of that shape. And so what we did with that is, it was quite easy. I just this kid came to see me in my clinic. And for like, every 10 minutes, I grabbed that shape, and I just pretended to be scared of and he was chasing me around my little clinic room with that particular shape. And, you know, I was I was like, oh, hiding behind things and just hanging up being really scared of this shape. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I hope it doesn't get me. And you know, he just thought it was hilarious. And he laughed and laughed and laughed and giggled as he chased me around and got me with this shape. And, you know, the parents came back a week later. And it hadn't been a problem. I think they played the game a couple more times at home. And it was it had disappeared, he was no longer scared of the show, he could talk about the show, he wasn't obsessing and going over that shape all the time and worried about that shape. And it had it was done it you know, had processed and he has shifted those feelings, and then it wasn't an issue anymore. And this can be about anything, it can be about monsters under the bed, or it can be scared of the dark. If you want to help your children through these things, you know, you be scared of them, let them direct the show. See where they go with that and follow their laughter and giggles. Okay, so I could go on with examples, examples, examples of this, but you get the idea. Hopefully you can adapt it to whatever play scenario that is relevant for your child. So once you've played that might be enough to help shift it like the square scenario, the dogs swimming lessons, the things that we've used it for, it might be enough, but also there may be deeper feelings there to help your children, you know that they need to process to be able to do the thing. And so then it might be offering your child a loving limit. And the loving limit might be I'm right here with you. And you know, the point where they start to cry, you might say I'm right here with you, I'm listening, sweetheart. You know, I know we can do this, I'm not going to rush you. So it's not about throwing your kid in the deep end and letting them sink or swim. It's about helping them to feel their feelings as you move them, as you know, as you take one step closer to the thing that they're scared of. And so again, with the swimming lesson scenario, we use the play. Then there was one particular time I remember where we were in the change room and my child started to cry and they said I don't want to go I don't want to go. And I said I'm right here like I'm listening. And they were really scared about putting their head underwater. And so I just waited and we listened in the change room for five or 10 minutes I said look, we can do this at your own pace. I'm not going to rush you I'm going to stay with you when you're ready. We'll move to we'll go closer. And so you know they cried in the change room for I don't know how long now five or 10 minutes and then we got to the door of the pool and cried again for no it can't go in and and our kids when they're processing fear they will shake and often tremble. And there'll be moving their bodies and flailing their arms and legs around because they often need to complete that fight or flight, energy and response that that happened when their initial fright happened. So, if an incident happened, and they were really scared, often it's that completion of of that energy and those feelings from that time that you're helping them work through. And so they will flail their arms and legs around, they might shake and tremble. And so waiting with them, and being able to hold that for the parent is a skill as well, you know, with a swimming lesson scenario, if we are never wanting our children to feel painful feelings, which as a parent, of course, we don't want that. But it's a normal and natural part of life that children will get scared and, and being able to hold, hold that for them is the way through it is the way that they are able to feel it. And once our children feel these hard feelings, and painful feelings and scared feelings, they learn that they can move through hard things. And so, you know, Holding, holding that loving limit at the swimming pool where I'm like, I know you can do this, and there's a lot of tears. And then we went to the next spot. And then we went to the next spot. And then they got in the pool, dive down did the lesson and found that they were like, Oh, I can move through this. And so there was probably a time in my parenting where anytime my child started to get uncomfortable and cry, or was scared or something, I'd be like, Okay, it's alright, you don't have to do it today, let's let's go home. But then we're not really ever helping our children through the thing that's hard. And this is where I would go back to the very first point that I made at the very start of the podcast is like, is it something that they are wanting to do developmentally? Are they ready for those things? Maybe it is trusting their timing and going home and waiting for them. And I'm waiting until they are ready, like the surf scenario with my daughter. Or is it that they actually really love the swimming lessons, or they really are, you know, something's happened that has scared them. And so the way through it is for them to feel it, to have their big cries and the big meltdowns, meltdowns in italics, because I meltdowns are a good thing. To really feel the big feelings and cry and shake and rage and flail their arms and legs around. That's actually helpful. That's the process that we as parents often shut down or avoid. But that's the that's the helpful process through it. I remember with the similar scenario with my son with dogs is that we did the play and he patted the dog, but there was still this one time at the beach, where I could see a dog coming now I could easily have picked him up and you know, said, you know, protected him from that fear and gone home or held him out of the way. But what I did was I bent down next to him and said, I'm right here with you mate. And he was shaking his body little body was shaking, and I'm like, I'm right here, buddy. I'm not gonna let anything happened to you. I'm supporting you, I'm here. I'm listening. Yes, there's a dog coming. And we looked at the dog and the dog was still fairway away. But helping him through that was another way of like, he had five or 10 minutes where we were really together. And I was right there with him through those feelings, that then he's no longer scared of dogs. And you know, and this might, this, these processes might take a while. It might be something you work on with your child for six or 12 months. In Hand in Hand parenting, they call that an emotional project where you're helping your children through hard feelings. And it might take more than one cry about it or more than 115 minute play. Now, sometimes that is enough. But if it's been a really big hurt or a big scare, and it's a whole lot of feelings that you're helping your child through, these things might take several months to work through. And you can slowly in between see times and evidence that your child is more free and flexible and they might pet a dog and they might, you know, have more confidence in certain areas, but it's something that you're working with your child through a period of time. And so offering a loving limit and listening to the feelings and listening to the big, big cries and the shaking and the trembling is the deeper fears and feelings and completing that sort of survival fight flight freeze energy can be really the next step or Other thing that our children might need from us now again, that's the dance that I was talking about, of like, you know, as the parent working through your own things. But there might be a time where there's a loving limit, to help our children do the thing. Another example of this that just has come to mind was, I don't know if I've shared this story on the podcast, but if you've listened to all my other podcasts, and I have shared this story, I'm really sorry, you hear it again. But a few months ago, maybe even six months ago, we were back in Denmark, where I grew up, chatting with, you know, staying with friends and family. And my kids jumped on some little mini motorbikes that were with friends. And they were doing some motorbike ride dirt, bike riding and stuff like that. Now my daughter jumps on and she grabs hold of the accelerator, and pulls it the wrong way and takes off like she's normally pretty confident with these things, loves trying new things jumps on it scares herself, because she takes off like 100 miles an hour and wasn't that fast. But you know, off she goes. And she's out of control, going up a bank, a sound bank, and kind of tipped it over. And she was fine. But this was happened in about 30 seconds, and she's zoomed off and then has kind of hit the side of the bank and fallen over. Now that scared her. And I ran over because I was like, wow. So I ran over like you okay, my brother comes over and he's like, you're right. I'd be good. Come on. Like, let's go and which is very normal response for most parents to make sure your kids okay, and yet you're right, nothing happened. It's okay. It's all right. But I could see she was really scared. But she went really quiet and sat in a chair for the rest of the, you know, the hour or so that we were there. She had a few snacks. But she really she didn't have another go. She didn't get back on the bike. She was really scared by it. And I didn't push her. I was like, That's okay, sweetie, that's, you know, not a problem. You can sit with me until we go until you're ready to do whatever you want to do. And so that's scenario happened. The next day, we were out on the river. And every, all the kids were doing, like a learn to ski. It was like you're going on this blow up ski thing behind the boat. And she really wanted to do it. She was like, Mom, I really want to do it, I really want to have a go at the ski, the ski trainer. And I was like, okay, sweetie. And so we got to her turn. And she froze. And so this is the thing that I would love for all parents to know is that when our children are freezing in this state, they actually really want to do the thing. They really want to jump on the basketball court, they really want to go into the classroom, they really actually do want to go to the footy training, but their body freezes that it's fear, like we get into a free state. And there's fear there. And it's really hard. How do we help our children move through that fear. And so she really wanted to jump on, on this ski trainer. But as soon as she got close to her, it was her turn, I could see her start to shake. She started to cry. She's like, No, I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to get on I don't want to get on. Now. I could easily say that's okay, we don't need to do it. But then our children, those fears develop more and more and more. And, you know, they get more and more scared if we if we don't help our children through them. I also was like, what do you really want to touch? Like, I really want to do it as Okay, well, you can do this. So I sat down next to her in the water and I just stayed with her. I said we can take your time. And she was crying and shaking and screaming like I can't do it. I'm like, I know it feels like you can't do it. And what I knew in the moment was it reminded her yet of the day before where she jumped on something that she was wanting to give it a go. And she was still it was like a completion of the day befores fight or flight energy of being scared being on that motorbike. And so with this scenario, I offered a loving limit and stayed in the water with her. I was sitting down really low below her eye level. So I was just there with her and offered that limit of like, I know you can do this. I'm right here, sweetheart. I'm not gonna rush you. I know I back you. I know you can do it. I'm listening. I'm here, whatever it was that I was saying. And she cried and shook and you know, she was like, Okay, I'm ready to get on now. And as the boat would come closer, it was nearly time for her to get on. Another layer of fear would kick in and she would feel that and it was probably 15 or 20 minutes. Now the thing that I found the hardest about this was everyone else's other adults, you know, judgement and time and then getting frustrated and just get on and off feeling like They wanted to say Just hurry up, make your mind up go one way or the other, rather going home? Or are you doing this, you know, I could feel that kind of tension rising from other adults around us. And so I also could notice the parts of me that wanted to say, hurry up, just get on, get on. Or the other part of me that's like, Okay, we don't need to do this today, fine. If you don't want to get on don't get on like I could, I could really notice the parts of me that we're starting to get a bit frustrated, or starting to feel judged, or feeling embarrassed by my child that was screaming in the water. So I want to know, really, really honour.

50:44

how hard this is to listen to our children's fears and anxieties and hold space for their crying and their tears. You know, it might be that you're listening in a schoolyard. Or it might be that you're listening in a car. Or it might be that you're listening as you're on the edge of the football field. And, you know, it can be really hard to parent in this way, when it's not the norm yet. I will add yet because I would love this to be understood by everybody. So rather than, you know, getting glaring eyes were feeling loved and supported. As we support our children through these hard things, that would be my ideal. But until that's the case, I know how hard this is to listen and to hold space for our children, when it's not the norm to do, you know, if your child scared to go into a birthday party and, or a family birthday party, and they're having a big, big cry, and you're holding space for it. I know how hard it is when others around, you don't necessarily know what you're doing, or they're trying to hurry the kid along. Or they're shaming or adding in layers of layers of guilt or embarrassment over the top of the kid that's really scared. And they're just literally letting it out and expressing it and moving through it. So I know how hard this is. And I really want to send so much love and compassion to all parents out there. When we have then gone. Okay, well, fine, don't do it today, then, or we have then get in there right now, or we've used some other way. Because it's really hard our own stuff comes up. So now I've gone on the side tangent. But coming back to that scenario, with the river and my daughter on the ski trainer. After cry, you know, it's probably about 10 or 15 minutes, she got on the ski trainer and did it and came back and the grin on her face. And the sense of mom, I did it. And she just skipped and hopped all the way home. And she did it. And she was like I did it mum are like, I can't believe I got on. And I said I know. I saw you I you know, I'm right here. And like, we talked about how hard it felt beforehand and, and that she was able to do it. This is how we can help our children through their hard feelings to then know that they have that experience. And that imprint, that they they can feel the scared feelings and the fear and the terror and they can move through it and then do whatever it is that they were scared off. And that for me as the parent I was like, Oh my gosh, like I just helped my child overcome something that they were really scared of. And now she has this imprint or an experience each time of them doing hard things, and that they can they can do it. Okay, so offering a loving limit is then listening to our children's fears and feelings. And that will look really big, it will look terrified, because if they're terrified of sharks, or stingrays or something to get in the water, they will look terrified when you're holding them through those feelings. And so, you know, it can be big, but often that is what they move through and is needed for them to kind of integrate that experience that was really hard for them or really scary for them, for them to be able to do it. And you know, this has happened hundreds of times in our family and I've seen it in action and it's how we help our children process it through the body and process their experiences as opposed to just talking at the the mental aspect of having kind of strategies that the the solutions. This is not you know, we can talk about the solutions and what we can do and things that we can do as well. But this is helping them to process that emotion. Generally, so play and then the crying. But one other thing that I did want to talk about, and I know this is a long podcast, but I can really talk about helping our children through fears and anxieties. Quite a lot, because I, this is a, I do this a lot with families. And, you know, I've seen this happen over and over again, where kids are no longer scared of things, their separation anxiety really settles their fear of things. Fear of eating foods, I've had a couple of families actually, where a child has had some food stuck, or a near kind of choking or has vomited or, and then has developed like a fear anxiety around certain foods and certain textures, or of coughing, or choking or vomiting. And so you can use games for that. And it has really made a huge difference with these families that I've been working with. And you know, it can be anything waterslides, bike riding, scootering, skateboarding, going out to football, training, anything play, and then listening to the crying is helpful. But I also wanted to add in. One other thing that I haven't talked too much about on this podcast, but I use quite a lot, actually, is storytelling. And so using some children, especially children that are really highly sensitive, it's really sometimes hard. The feelings are really big, and they might go into a shutdown mode where they they don't want to play, and they're not feeling their feelings, they're not crying, if they're crying, that's helpful, we can stay with them and hold them through those feelings. If they're kind of a bit stuck, I find storytelling really, really helpful as well. And I use this the other day with my daughter, she was really scared about something and was frozen. Like, she's like, I want to go in my my water. I want to do this thing. But I can't my body is stuck. And I've seen this many times with with kids where they just they want to do the thing, but it's a scary and then they just can't they freeze. Now I know many adults, all of us, I've had many times where I've wanted to do something and then I'm frozen in fear and we can't and so I told this story of my husband, and I'm sure he won't mind me sharing this. But as I told my daughter, the story, I said, Do you want me to tell you a story of a time that dad froze. And my husband's really scared of heights. And so anytime we go anywhere up high, he's terrified. There's many adults that are scared of things. And so, you know, scared of flying, scared of heights, scared of all sorts of things. And so

57:42

we talked about how he was doing a high ropes course on a Buck show a few years ago, and he got scared and he was about to do this jump out to catch a trapeze and he froze. And he was clinging to the clinging to the ledge and I handed up a bit and talked about how scared dad was. And she just thought it was hilarious. She giggled and giggled her way through this story. And then I said, well, and it didn't help when some people were pressuring him when because I realised that this is sort of what she was feeling pressured and rushed us at all. When people were rushing him and saying, Come on, you can do it and just jump and just do this and rushing him and pressuring him. It wasn't helpful. And he felt even more scared and more stuck. And she thought she then she nodded and was like, yeah, that's how I feel mom. And I was like, Yeah, okay. And then I said, but when he, a couple of his friends came and said, we're just gonna sit here with you. And, you know, take your time, and we know that you can do it, and we back you and we've got you and let's laugh and cheer. And they tried to make a few jokes, and they laughed with him. He could relax a bit. And then he did it. And then I said, you know, he jumped out, and he missed the rope anyway, and the harness caught him. And then he cheered. And even though he missed it, he cheered. And so even though he had failed at the actual thing, he was cheering that he did it. And then he jumped. And she thought this story was the best, she loved it. She laughed. It was relatable. It was relevant to what she was feeling she felt heard and seen and understood in the moment. And then she was able to do the thing that was hard. And so she asked about that story again. And we told it again that night, and we've told her it again since and so, you know, sometimes using and a lot of the time using story storytelling, to help our children feel understood. And to know that they're not alone. She was like, oh, Dad's felt like this before dad's frozen. And then she wanted to know more stories about a time where I felt really scared and where I've cried about things or where I felt worried about something. And so storytelling can be really helpful. It can be really helpful. To tell stories about you as the parents and when you felt similar. And also anytime where they start to giggle, or you've fallen over or you've had, you know, it's the same sort of thing, it's a power reversal game, but it's not quite as first person as role playing. And so role playing, if your child doesn't like role playing, it's because it can be, it can feel like a lot for them, if they're in that first person, you know, acting it out. But storytelling can create a bit of distance for the child between them and the feelings. And so they're giggling about whoever the story is about. And they're using the laughter and processing it through that way. And that can be a really powerful way of helping our children work through their fears and process their fears. And so it can be storytelling about animals, it can be, you know, toys that go on a big adventure, or the dog, our dog, who does actually have some separation anxiety at times. And so, you know, I'll often tell stories about the dog, and the dogs doing this, and the dogs really scared of this, and, but then the dog fell over, or the dog, you know, did something and the kids think that's really hilarious. And it's because it creates a little bit of distance from the feelings, and from the scenario. And it's that what you know, you know, that balance of attention, or that that point where they're able to giggle and laugh about it, and process it in a way that doesn't feel too much for them, or sends them into like a shutdown mode around it. So if you've found that you've tried some play with your kids, and it's not really working, or you've tried, you know, listening to some feelings, but they're not really getting to those beautiful, deep healing tears, storytelling might be another way where it helps them to feel seen and heard. And they will laugh and giggle about it, but it's through a third person or a third party. And that can be a way where it doesn't feel too overwhelming for them and sends them down into a shutdown mode. And I do this a lot through my clinic as well, I might end up treating people that come in for craniosacral therapy, and if kids are not really wanting hands on their bodies, and they're like, nope, go away, go away, I might end up treating their dog or their toy or their teddy. And so we talked to Teddy and Teddy, you know, and a lot of stuff comes through the doll or the toy. And it just means that it's not that focus on them. And we can ease into it at a pace that they are comfortable with. And that it's really feel safe and welcoming for them. And, and so using a third party, a toy or a teddy or a story about a parent can be really, really helpful for a child to process their fears and anxieties through that way. So I wanted to add that one in, because it's another really powerful tool that we can add in as a parent to help our children through their fears and anxieties. Okay, so I think that is me for the day. Thank you so much for listening. As always, if you've got any questions, and I might even put a couple of things out on social media this week, with this podcast where I'll you know, open up my inbox or, you know, put a couple of posts out where I would love to hear what it is that your child is scared of, or afraid of, or worried about, at the moment what's really relevant and present for your children. And maybe we can brainstorm and throw in some game ideas and things that I would do, because I really, really love helping parents to see how they can help their children through holding space for their fears and terror. And the magic that happens afterwards, when we've either played and laughed about it, or we've held a loving limit and cried about it. Obviously taking into consideration their environment, their developmental age, is it ours, what's ours in it in all of those things, but once we've played through it, or listened to the tears around it, you know, just seeing our children confident and being able to do the thing that they were so scared about. And they're their faces beaming and you can see them starting to grow right in front of your eyes. It's just such an empowering part of parenting. And so I'd really love to hear this week. What are your kids really worried about or scared about? Or what are you working through at the moment, and I'd love to be able to help in any way I can with some ideas and suggestions or games and ways that I would play with it because we're really only limited by our own imagination. And if you are stuck for ideas, honestly ask your child say to them, Hey, let's play this out and then follow their lead and see where they go. So thank you so much for listening, I hope this has been helpful, I would love to hear from you about any of the things that you've tried and how it may have helped through, help your child through something, because it always warms my heart, when I hear these stories of things changing. I also want to send you lots of love and remind you that this can sometimes take time and, and that we don't have to help our children through all of their fears at once, that it can be slow process it at their pace, and at your pace, there's probably a half a dozen things right now that I can list that I know my children probably have feelings around or being scared about, that I just haven't had the capacity to kind of address or work through or focus on at the moment. And so they're just there, I know that when I've got capacity that I might put a little energy and focus on, I can really want to help my child feel really confident with their reading and not be scared around having a go at their reading. I haven't had the energy to do that yet. And so or I have in the past, and then it's kicked back up again, and I can see it, you know, coming back up again. So at some point, when I have capacity, I will look at it. So I want to send love to if you're listening and thinking oh my gosh, this child's got this and this child's got this and I could Oh, it's feels too overwhelming and too much. I just want to say that that's okay. It's you know, we can only go as fast as what we have capacity for. And it's okay if things sit there for a little while and when you feel ready or when it when it really comes to the forefront, then then you you know, then you look at it, we don't have to rush in and help our children with all of their fears and anxieties at once. That we can take time. And then that's okay. So I just wanted to say that as well to finish off with that it's not about shaming or guilting ourselves and thinking, oh my gosh, you know, my kids scattered this, this, this and this, that I really want to send you love and just compassion and know that trust your child's timing, trust your timing, if there is something that you want to work on, reaching out to someone building some capacity and some emotional space for yourself first. And then you're able to play more and come up with some game ideas and set some loving, you know, offer some loving limits with your child, that it takes time. So you don't have to do it all at once. And that that's okay. So I wanted to sort of finish on that note as well and say I'm sending you so much love. I'd love to hear how you are helping your children through whatever fears and anxieties are coming up at the moment. And if you need any help, please reach out I'm always here to support in any way I can. Bye for now.

Shelley Clarke  1:08:08

Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you by 21 days of play my self paced course to help bring more play into your every day. Thank you so much for listening. I would love to know your thoughts and feelings and to continue the conversation. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook @_ShelleyClarke_. If you'd like to keep in the loop for all my resources and offerings as they happen you can join my mailing list at www.shelleyclarke.com Thank you for all you are doing. Your parenting is important and powerful. Have a lovely day. Bye for now.