Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
Only Fee-Only
#102 - Mastering Financial Services Marketing with insights from Lauren Hong
Ever wonder how to cut through the marketing noise in the financial world? We sit down with Lauren Hong, president of Out and About Communications, to hear her journey from freelance designer to running a boutique marketing agency. Lauren shares how her team crafts targeted strategies that help RIAs and financial firms stand out, and why avoiding shiny distractions is essential for growth.
We also talk about the power of consistency in content creation, whether it's podcasts or webinars. Lauren explains how sticking with a strategy can lead to real connections and growth. She also highlights why working with like-minded clients and focusing on quality over quantity is key. Tune in for practical marketing tips and insights that can transform your business!
Lauren's Social:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/honglauren/
@honglauren_
How's it going everyone? Welcome back to the OnlyFeeOnly podcast and, as always, we appreciate you being here spending some time with us. In this episode, we talked to Lauren Hung, who is the president of Out and About Communications. They are a full service digital marketing agency for financial services companies nationwide and they help you align your business with marketing tactics that cut through the clutter. She has a really cool story and what they're doing is amazing. They work very specifically with the financial services industry and about 75% of the people that they work with are actually RIAs, so very relatable to what we do at BC Brokerage. Great conversation, so much fun to get the chance to talk to Lauren, so, without further ado, let's let her share her story. Here is Lauren Hong on the Only Fee Only podcast.
Speaker 2:What's up everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast. I'm Peter Travolo. I'm here with my co-host, brock Buckles. How's it going today, brock?
Speaker 1:It's great man. It's a beautiful day. It's good to be here with you, pete.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is Wednesday, Happy hump day, and today so excited to have Lauren Hong on. Really excited to have her on share her story and share her expertise in the financial services industry. So, Lauren, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks guys for having me. It's good to see you, brock and Peter, so glad to be here.
Speaker 2:Likewise, likewise. It's always great to connect with someone. We always see each other on social media LinkedIn, different platforms like that but always great to have a conversation like this. But for those who don't know who Lauren is and what you're doing in the financial services arena, you want to give a quick overview of who you're currently serving and what your business is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally. So I run Out and About Communications. We've been almost a dozen years in business now and we exclusively service the financial services space. Right now about 75% of our active client base is the wealth management RA community. So the fee only thing I'm like, oh, yeah, totally, that's right here. I'm very familiar with all that. Our team is actually trained on all the jargon. There's a lot of jargon and challenges with, you know, sec marketing and all that kind of fun stuff. So we're really living and breathing financial services marketing and the nuances that are involved in that. So we're a team of about 30 folks who are spread across the US. We kind of are this marriage between really strategic, I'll say, plans and then we actually implement all of the execution of the marketing. So we're like a marketing department and then we come alongside financial services companies to support them.
Speaker 1:Very cool. So I mean, where'd this idea come from? We can get into it, because I think one of the things I want to make sure we cover is you know what are the important things around it, what are common mistakes that you see around marketing that you know advisors make, or things that they could use improvement on. But let's get into you as the entrepreneur. How did you come up with this idea and decide that you wanted to pursue it?
Speaker 3:Okay. So the truth is is I kind of stumbled into it, so I had lived abroad for a few years, which was a pretty awesome experience. I worked at an agency, my background is in graphic design, and so I had all this kind of different experience and I always had in the back of my mind my dad. He was like entrepreneurship's the way to go.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, okay, like that seed was planted and I just it just kind of never left me and I got going, honestly, as a freelance graphic designer, not really sure where it would all go, but it wasn't what kind of woke me up every day and I wanted to always be in a position where I was more or less like we had a team, because we could do so much more and I really liked the idea of being able to build it out kind of beyond me.
Speaker 3:So it was like probably year three that the team started to kind of come together. About year, maybe, like I don't know, four or five, we were like, hey, like we've got something in this financial services community. We had taken on a wealth management client, we crushed it, they wanted more work, and then it just kind of caught fire from there and then we were like you know what? There's something to this is a really challenging market, there's a need for it, and let's go all in. So that was kind of how it evolved. So then you fast forward to where we are today and, like I was saying, we're all in financial services.
Speaker 2:So what is that need? What is missing as far as financial advisors and marketing? Where are they at in building their firm? Because in the beginning people are like, oh, I can just do all my marketing myself, I don't need anyone, I'm the know-it-all entrepreneur. What are the needs and where do you guys come in?
Speaker 3:So there's that need. Still, I think when you get any business going, like, honestly, you probably don't need a huge agency to do a billion and one things. And I don't know like you get other messages in the world, because there's a lot of shiny object syndrome. Like you can build a website in 24 hours and you should be doing. You know social media on every single channel and you should be doing a webinar series and a podcast and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:Like, when you get going initially, you just need to, like, hit the ground, do really good work, take care of your clients and if you're doing marketing, just stick to the one thing that works. And, honestly, that one thing might just be staying top of mind with your centers of influence and just have at least a landing page that shows legitimacy, right. But as you grow and you start to go up market, you've got to be able to compete in a different way. And when you're competing in a different way, you can't just do the like wash, rinse, repeat. You've got to start turning up the noise and being able to diversify where your leads are coming in from and you've got to really start to differentiate yourself from the market. And so that's where we come in and that's the challenging and fun work.
Speaker 3:So a lot of the firms that we're working with they've been in business for a while. Sometimes it's a situation where they started in the 80s. They've got new leadership that's come in. Maybe they have like major growth goals. A lot of the firms that we're working with are on the path to a billion or they're multiple billions in AUM and so they're at a place where they need to really kind of shake it up, because the way that they got to that, you know that that first billion or on the way to the first billion isn't how they're going to get to the next billion, so on and so forth.
Speaker 3:So that's really where we come in and the fun part of it is like the fun, challenging, creative part of it is a lot of companies in this space are kind of like they're super buttoned up. You know like you see a lot of blues, grays, blacks and it's there's a stiffness about it. So as creative professionals, it's fun to be able to go in there and strike that right balance between, like where the firm's at and how they stand out in the market, to add that like warmth of personality, because that's so much of the differentiator, of what makes this business different. You got your services, you can have your target market and all of that is really, really key, but you've got to be able to come out in like a human way and that's part of what we're doing, so it's really helping to pull that, pull that side of it out, um, you know, with against what your target market's looking for so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 3:I mean I feel like a lot of times.
Speaker 1:Sorry, what's that?
Speaker 1:No, I was saying it's a long winded way of just kind of saying that there's an opportunity in the market and we we identify that, oh okay, I got you, I got you, you cut out for a second. Um, no, that's really cool. One of the questions that I have is, like, obviously you have to. You have to have a balance between professionalism but also letting the personality come out a little bit, so like when you're working with those you know billion dollar AUMs, obviously you know it's a, it can feel like a lot more of a corporate kind of structure, right, then a, then a boutique firm or a solopreneur for sure. So it is the you know, uh, marketing. More focused on on, this is how we are as a firm. Or are there certain individuals that usually come from the firm that do more of the marketing side or kind of the face of the company? Like, what does that dynamic look like?
Speaker 3:So if you're at a firm where there's a ton of advisors, you know multi-billion AUM firm, sometimes it comes down to the bio page being able just to humanize that and add some personality behind it. Sometimes it's the kind of brand at large of how you're presenting yourself in the market. We've worked with firms that are quite large, like we're talking $18 billion in AUM, and part of the strategy is there's a nationwide presence but there's a very local focus which is sort of an interesting spin on it, because you've got this sort of large firm but then there's like these very targeted local effort pushes and so I think that also from like a high level that also just kind of you can connect a dot to the need for kind of that like boots on ground, like real human connection and the way that they're also communicating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's an interesting point. You know, I think right now, in 2024, everyone wants to talk about building a social on Twitter, linkedin, but not as many like boots on the ground. You know types of marketing plays. And that also brings up what you said earlier about what you said just in your first year of business, like sticking close to your COIs and things like that. So like, let's talk a little bit about maybe like marketing ideas that aren't talked about as much. Right, like everyone wants to talk about social media and you know, beating the algorithm and stuff, but like what are just some good old, like fashion, it works, no matter what. Like it consistently firms as long as they do this, they will continue to get business.
Speaker 3:So, honestly, you guys are a great example of keeping up this podcast. There's a lot of people that start stuff and then they just stop it altogether, or they do it and they just kind of do it like halfway. They don't really go all in. So just to try it in, true of like it's hard to do, but picking a tactic and just like sticking with it, building those connections. And I'm sure you guys have seen like over time, like a coattail, like you're riding coattails right, you're building networks. People start to notice, they start to see you positioning for where you're at. So I think that's like a good tried and true. I'd be curious have you guys seen that too with your podcast and what?
Speaker 1:yeah, definitely. I mean, I would say in the beginning it was like for a long time pete was like let's do a podcast. I'm like, is it worth it? He's like let's do a podcast and I was like, is it worth it? And then finally it was like, okay, let's do a podcast.
Speaker 1:Um, and and I would say definitely, in the beginning we didn't know how it was going to turn out, but one of the best things was it always gives us content to post. It always gives us something to post. It always gives us something to talk about. We're always engaging with new people and just staying up with the community that we're involved in. Right, it's a big community, but it's a small community at the same time. So, the consistency in the podcast, you know, it's definitely, I would say, more of a slow burn, but you know, someone told us one time I'm trying to remember which guest it was, but it was like you've got your high touch content, your medium and kind of the or the. What was it, pete? How did they say it? You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:The funnel middle of the funnel, the overarching.
Speaker 2:I was talking about the funnel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Exactly, and so it was a great addition to kind of that dynamic and having a different way to get in front of people. Dynamic and having a different way to get in front of people. And one of my favorite things about the podcast was you know advisors that are starting firms that have, you know, come over from Schwab or whatever and want to start a firm. You know, I get on a call with them or advisors that have just listed the podcast. They're like I feel like I already know you guys and I'm like that's one of the coolest parts of it because you know we have to get to know each other, obviously, but the fact that they're coming in with knowledge of who we are, what we do, what we believe in and what we stand for was huge.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeah, I agree this podcast.
Speaker 2:It forces us to do what we already should be doing talking to COIs, talking to other people in the industry, posting every day. We can turn any one of these long form sessions which is 25, 30 minutes, really not even that long and clip it into videos, clip the text. We're able to tag other individuals in it. But you know, I would also say that the other big one and it was we were even hesitant at first it's just letting it rip right. Like people. They get so overwhelmed they feel like they need to be doing everything.
Speaker 2:Totally Like I sit here and like we don't have a website for this podcast. It's just tied onto the BC Brokerage one. Everyone's like, oh, you should get a domain and all this other stuff. And it's like, okay, great. But like what's more important is that's right, that's what we've seen work. So that's why it's just like you know, brock and I at first like it was just guerrilla marketing, like whatever works, right. I mean, we were literally knocking on fee only planners doors in the indianapolis area, dropping cookies off like we were realtors.
Speaker 2:It worked, it worked you know, now it's a podcast, so it's just interesting to see.
Speaker 3:It really is, and I think that it doesn't have to be a podcast, like tactic right, it could be a webinar, it could be a seminar like seminars are totally a sweet spot, especially for your kind of retiree group. You know, just depends, and it depends on kind of what the, the personality of the firm is to write.
Speaker 3:Not everybody wants to do a podcast and so part of it is I think that the things that people talk about, there's all the noise, like you can do these billion and one topics, things to do, right. But I think the challenging thing from a strategy perspective is that if you're gonna do a like let's say, a podcast or a webinar it's the framework. It's like who are you talking to, what's like, what's the consistency of it? Like it's all of kind of the, the thinking around, kind of the, the framing of it, before you actually even like, like, get into doing it. And I think that's some of the really interesting work. That's very nuanced for each company and where you're at Um. So those are organic plays. They take a long time but you start to own a channel right, you start to own an audience and you start to be able to build that up.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of other kind of inorganic approaches that firms have especially been taking in the last five years. I mean, you guys I'm sure I've seen like there's a lot of M&A that's going on. There's breakaway advisors is definitely still a thing, definitely still a thing. We do see firms that are acquiring other companies that are sort of like adjacent companies, like CPAs, firms that are kind of underneath banks that bring in different referral streams. There's other inorganic ways of growing, but I think that from just a like, if you're at a growth place, I just would say, like, don't try to do everything under the sun. You know you want to do a few things really, really well, and I'd even say like thinner than that. Like start with like a like one thing, like a newsletter which has usually a ton of components to it, but start with one thing. Do it really well, get a grip on it, add your next thing right and then add your next thing.
Speaker 1:So I or else you're going to do everything at like 30%, 70% you know it's 80% is all going to be not done so and then you tweak it Well, like, find what works for your personality, like what you enjoy doing, too, right? I mean, I see some people put videos out there, some people do newsletters, some people do blogs, some people are really good at copywriting. So what is your thoughts on the dynamic between kind of staying in your comfort zone and doing the things that you're really good at and maybe getting out there and trying something new? So maybe you're really good at copywriting, you feel really good about writing text, but you don't feel great behind the camera. Is it like, okay, that's going to come off wrong if you are behind the camera and you're uncomfortable, so just stick with the text? Or is it, you know, mix up the messaging and kind of go different routes?
Speaker 3:It's a really good question, because I think that this question also comes up when trying to like define a target market.
Speaker 3:Some people feel like they've got to go after, like, the big fish to fry, but it's really not their, it's not their dam, like it's just not there. You know, it's like that's just really not like who we, we've naturally brought in, or maybe it's not their area of expertise, and so I think you've got to be able to do kind of that hard work to be able to say like, um, where am, where are my strengths? Because you're trying to do this on top of all the other stuff that you're managing on the back end, and if it's feeling like it's forced, it's probably not going to feel as natural. There might be somebody on your team who's really great at copywriting or who's really loves being in front of the camera, who likes speaking, or maybe it's writing a book, but I think part of it is finding that natural flow and it's going to be a lot more, a lot easier versus like, oh my gosh, I have to do this Like seriously, like I'm like totally nervous, I need to go.
Speaker 3:You know, like, I don't know, like, do some like yoga and like a walk around the block and that's just not fun. Like why?
Speaker 3:And I see advisors that, like you know, they're like if they pick the target, that is like totally their thing, like like I see advisors that like they maybe they're a former military, right, they just like they talk the talk and it's totally their thing and they it's very natural and people can feel that right, like if it's, if it's like if you're trying to force it, it's just not, it's not as fun.
Speaker 2:So I love it, yeah, and you know back to like the audit idea too. It's also figuring out what works right, because I feel like some people they might be listening and they're like I have no clue where my leads are coming from you know. So it's like kind of like step one is also like looking at your current book of business and actually realizing where people came from. Yeah, you know like you can think that something's working in your head, but it's like great, show me the numbers.
Speaker 2:So I what are some discussions that you have with clients that you know they might even be? You know it's a blind spot. They didn't even know it or they're not even measuring it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I'll just say like, shout out to track that advisor. They do a really great job of partnering with you, know firms and really telling that data story, so trying to identify where those prospects are coming from. If they're upsells, what have you. So that's a great kind of if you're looking for a really good framework and kind of a partner to be able to get your hand on that data so you can tell that story and then know where to kind of like trim the fat for your efforts, like okay, this isn't working, we're going to go this way or that way.
Speaker 3:And then I also think if you look at Schwab has some really good benchmark studies, as does dimensional. That also help to kind of if you're looking for not necessarily like your zero and focus where that data is coming from, but you're kind of looking for like well, what are other firms doing and how can I start to compare apples to apples? A good place, it depends on the size of firm you are Like. If you're a smaller firm, you probably kind of have an intuition for like your COIs and like what's cooking there. If you're a larger firm, then it's a much bigger ops challenge to be able to really kind of like zero in on all of that, nurture those prospects and what have you? So yeah, that's it, you got to start somewhere. But I think it's important, in a nutshell, to be able to look specifically at your data but then to look at the trends. Like, if you look at the trends from the last, I'd say like last two years, there is a drop off in referrals, like people are.
Speaker 3:They're like how do we organically grow? And there's not as many people that are referring because there's just a little bit of a shift in the market. So I think it's really interesting to go like is this just me, or is it like happening across the board?
Speaker 1:So yeah, no for sure. So walk us through the process and what you guys do. I mean say that somebody is interesting. They want to start working with you. Potentially. You know from, I guess, the original meetings where you're seeing if you might be the right fit to the implementation. What does that process kind of look like for you guys and working with your clients?
Speaker 3:with your clients. Yeah, so we, um, we still start all of our engagements with the discovery, just like firms do. Right, you've got to get to know them. Um, there, we don't have anything that's off the shelf like a huge content bank or I don't know any pre ready to go like stuff, like everything is like, who are you guys? Um, we're doing intake of, uh, you know their different assets. Just, it depends on what type of engagement they're at.
Speaker 3:But what we returned, it depends on what type of engagement they're at. What we return to them is I'll call it a one-page strategy doc. But we also return really like a research and recommendations for where the firm is at and where we paired with both our expertise and working with dozens and dozens of firms and the data that's specific to their really marketing and business strategy, specific recommendations that turn into projects, project timelines and implementation to be able to get going on. So it's really I'll call it a strategy alignment, identifying what we're going to focus on, and then we timeline and execute on that and then we're constantly vectoring, you know, and adjusting as a team, because you can have these grand plans but then you get into it and, like, businesses change and they shift, people leave things happen in the market, and so you, you want to be like. You want to have a plan, but you don't want to be so wed to the plan that you can't like turn dials and adjust as you move forward.
Speaker 1:So yeah yeah, adaptability is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So let's talk a little bit about your business. I mean, you've been in it, you know. You said about a dozen years now, got about 30 people spread out throughout the country. I mean, what do you see in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years, like, what are your goals and where do you see the business going?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we've always had this vision to be much more of a boutique firm. We have a mission that's specifically around being that go-to marketing agency for financial companies or those kind of adjacent to the financial services space. So part of what we're doing is just digging those deep roots within the community, taking on clients that have, you know, like-minded values of growth, partnership, these kinds of things, and just really being in a place where we can constantly take great care of our clients, great care of our team, and just also kind of pick and choose, you know, like either who we're working with or unique projects or where we're investing our time. And that's really, when we look ahead, it's really about quality. It's about quality over quantity.
Speaker 1:So I love that because one of my favorite things to say to people and I talk to advisors all the time right, and I'm like we might not be the right fit for everybody I always say that it's like maybe we are the right fit for you. If we're not the right fit for you, it's okay and maybe you know it's. It's good to be able to have that, because I think that when you're working with people who you're truly the right fit for it, you just do a better job. There's more of that kind of synergy. It feels good. You're more intentional about the interactions and the results that come out of it. So that's really cool. For those that are wondering kind of what the ideal firm is, I know that you guys said you work with really large companies, but is there like a kind of boutique to larger scale companies? Is that what I hear you saying, lauren?
Speaker 3:The majority of the firms we're working with are on the path to a billion, a lot of ensemble firms, and then we do work with a handful that are multiple billions in AUM.
Speaker 3:So it just kind of depends on where you're at.
Speaker 3:But if you've recently gone through maybe like a strategy playing exercise for absolute Schwab and outside consultant a lot of firms that use EOS Entrepreneur's Operating System, you might have gone through like a whole. You know you've identified what your priorities are as a business and you might even have an in-house marketing lead. Who knows? It could be someone that is like very senior, they could be maybe just kind of just getting their feet wet. But we really work alongside to be able to, if you don't have anyone internally, to be that marketing department for you, which is typically the ensemble firms um, where they're usually, you know, kind of just over a billion or right around there. And then once you get to a certain kind of threshold, which is usually your multiple billions in aum, you usually have someone that's in-house and so in those situations we're usually partnering on strategy, um, and then oftentimes just supporting with execution of various tactics. So that's kind of the range that we're typically working with as far as firms go, and those ones, and at that level you're almost kind of.
Speaker 3:No, go ahead yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I was just going to say at that level you're almost kind of doing consulting work too, right, that's really what it is. And you're coming, you're not like you're working alongside them, they might have an idea, and you're like, well, have you thought about it this way? And having that outside perspective I think a lot of times is huge.
Speaker 3:It's that push and pull right and different messengers, and then when we're aligned on the big picture, then it's our team. That is like executing on that project. And so there's things we may say like, okay, this is in your zone, this is in ours, and you know we'll be able to like basically best use our resources. But it's a really nice partnership Because, honestly, sometimes there's like managers or what have you that come in and they don't really know this space, or they know this space, but they're kind of like I really like to have somebody else that I can just bounce ideas off with, or a team that really knows like SEO, or they can do video editing or they can. They're really great at copywriting.
Speaker 1:And so it kind of extends their team For sure.
Speaker 2:For sure that makes sense. Are there any golden nuggets you wanted to share with the audience before you came on here? Is there anything that you just want to cast out there.
Speaker 3:Um, you know it's funny, I'm actually going to do a webinar here, like in another, in another hour, and so I've been preparing for that. And I think I just want to go back to the the the point that you had asked about earlier of like, what do you do? And I just say to folks like, just focus on one thing. Like if you're just trying to get going, even if you're a, you know. Like, do your one thing, learn from it, build layer. You know, do the other thing, build layer.
Speaker 3:And all of a sudden, what's going to happen is you get really good and you start to have multiple things that you're doing, which is why everybody's going to look to you and go, I want to do a million and one things like that company's doing. But what's a really cool position is once you start to be able to be like I'm crushing this, I'm crushing this, I'm crushing this. You learn from that. Then you start to see the data and the trends and you start to cut out the fat and you can start to amplify what's really working. So I just encourage folks to really, I'd say, go all in. Like, if it's a website redesign, like go all in on it If it's a podcast, a webinar, like go all in on it, learn and then just either like learn from the data and then just adjust dials.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I love it. Well, very cool. Well, for those of those of the people that want to get in touch with you, reach out. What's the best way to get in touch with your firm Talk to you guys? Maybe schedule a meeting.
Speaker 3:It's just out and about communicationscom, or you can reach out to it's hello at out and about comcom.
Speaker 2:So Love it. Lauren. Thank you so much for your time and expertise today. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Totally. Thank you guys for the opportunity you bet.