Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
Only Fee-Only
#111 - From Jargon to Clarity in Financial Marketing with Sara Grillo
Simplify your financial advisory business with insights from Sara Grillo. Known for her no-nonsense approach, Sara shares how clear communication and transparency can set you apart as a fee-only advisor. Learn practical tips for cutting through jargon, creating SEO-friendly content, and building stronger client connections.
Discover how to use LinkedIn effectively without resorting to the hard sell. Sara breaks down straightforward steps to connect with potential clients, from filtering connections to crafting genuine outreach messages. It’s all about focusing on service, not sales, to build lasting relationships.
We also explore how educational content is reshaping the financial services industry. Sara offers advice on overcoming self-doubt, committing to continuous learning, and navigating client interactions with confidence. Whether you’re exploring new opportunities or looking to improve your practice, this episode is packed with actionable strategies to help you succeed.
Sara’s social:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sgrillo?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app
X: @grilloinvest
How's it going? Everyone, welcome back. This is the Only for you Only podcast and, as always, we appreciate you being here. In this episode, we talked to Sarah Grillo, who is bringing transparency and logic to financial advisor marketing. Sarah had a lot of good things to say in this episode. She talked about how most advisors need to be more clear and concise about their messaging and also talked about how she encourages advisors to go about that. So enjoy this episode with Sarah Grillo on the Only Fee Only podcast.
Speaker 2:How's it going everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast. I'm Peter Travlo. I'm here with my co-host, brock Buckles. How's it going today, brock?
Speaker 1:It's good to be here with you, man.
Speaker 2:Likewise, and today we're very excited to have Sarah Grillo joining us. I'm very excited to hear her expertise and have her share a little bit more about transparency in the financial services industry. So, sarah, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you bet, you bet. For those who don't know who you are, you want to give a quick overview of who you are and what you're doing in the financial services area.
Speaker 3:Well, I teach financial advisors how to market themselves without sounding like they're selling washing machines out sounding like they're selling washing machines, and that might seem like a very straightforward and simple kind of a thing, but there's a million different aspects of it, believe it or not, so I'd love to get into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's a heck of a way to start a podcast sounding like washing machines. So let's just start there, let's put the stake in the ground and let's start there. When you say Sounding Like Washing Machines, what do you mean?
Speaker 3:Oh, I mean, you know what it is the BS. Excuse me, I'm sorry, can I like? I didn't mean to cuss on your podcast. I hope that doesn't count as cussing.
Speaker 3:BS is not still safe. All right, I missed the thesaurus. I should have studied for this. Well, anyways, I mean, I think what everybody needs to realize is that your biggest obstacle in marketing isn't that you didn't say enough. It's probably that you said too much, and it's also probably that you weren't transparent enough, in the sense that you didn't really talk about what the other person wanted to hear. Or, if you did, you buried excuse me, oh my gosh, you buried it under so much garbage and mumbo jumbo that, like you, messed up your own clarity and, as a result, they didn't even try to analyze anything that you said. They couldn't process anything. I think that's the biggest misconception is that there's very little transparency unless you make a conscious effort to communicate boldly and concisely.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when you say that boldly and concisely, give us an example of one of the common mistakes that you see, or maybe an example of like something that someone would say, and then the way that they should have said it.
Speaker 3:Sure, the biggest thing is, I want everybody listening to this to just go to your website, not if you're driving or anything, but if you're at home or if you're on your computer in your office. Just go to your website, pull it up and look at the homepage and does it say something about we're your partner for the journey or we make sure all your financial needs are met? Does it say some BS on the homepage of your website? Because if you're hitting them with the BS right away, chances are they're going to bounce and not even read the rest of the website. Or, worse is that you're going to look like every single other financial advisor. And especially for those of you fiduciaries out there, you need to make it clear that you provide conflict-minimized advice, that you are. If you're fee-only, not taking commissions, are not registered to sell insurance and, forgive me, guys, I know that you have an insurance affiliation but if we're talking about fiduciaries, okay, that pure fee only advisors are only about 7% of the entire universe. Now, I don't have the exact statistic, but this is just what I've heard thrown around. I could be wrong about that, but I don't know. Why are you not making it clear? Why are you acting like the rest of the industry, which is riddled with conflict and is not going to have a clear advantage. Okay, so the website should say this and, for SEO purposes, I'm going to, I'm going to write your homepage for you, everybody. I am a. Now, if you're a fee only advisor, you can write this. If not, look, I'm not shaming you. I'm just saying be transparent. You can't say it if you're not. I am a fee-only financial advisor in Wakefield, massachusetts, in Colts Neck, new Jersey, wherever it is. The reason is there should at least be some SEO signaling for Google.
Speaker 3:But also, even if you work virtually, people still want to know where you're based. It kind of anchors you because there could be time zone differences. There could be. Some people might just want to work with somebody in their geography, even if you don't care where they're located. They might care where you're located. They might not want to work with somebody in their geography, even if you don't care where they're located. They might care where you're located. They might not want to work with somebody that is in a place they've never visited, or there might be. I mean I hesitate to say like cultural differences, right, like I mean I hear people say all the time what a rude New Yorker I am. Now I'm pretty blunt and bold and all of the insults you would say about New York people, right. But I mean, like people will just bluntly tell me, oh, you're such a Yankee, you're such a New Yorker, I mean, and I wonder, are people actually holding it against me that I'm New York City? Right, so people do maybe kind of have that bias.
Speaker 3:Anyways, what I'm saying is make it clear on the homepage I am a fee only financial advisor in blah blah. The next line under that okay, I help who and how do I? Okay, so I help people 50 years and older with 2 million in assets to minimize taxation on their retirement income, whatever it is. Two different parts, okay. So first, geographic locator make it clear, transparent. I'm a financial advisor in Sacramento, california. Second line subheader manage the exit, sale and exit and sale of their business and retire after that. Whatever it is. Okay, see three building blocks. Boom, you're done. Spare me the BS. There's your homepage.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, and then it's matching the services with what your client needs. So let's talk about transparency with that. You know how do you build your service offering to match what your clients need.
Speaker 3:Well, how do you build? It is one thing. I think the best thing you could possibly do, and this is going to go against the grain of what everybody else says. Okay, and look, I'm not a financial advisor, for all of you that want to slam me in the comments section. Oh, she's not a financial advisor. She's saying me, me, me. But I mean, I am a marketing person and I do talk to a plethora of financial advisors. I have a podcast and I talk, I'm social Like, I talk to a lot of people on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3:I run a transparency group for flat fee advice only and hourly planners. That's a very different kind of a business model from the typical AUM or commission or whatever. Here's what I've found. And look, you know your practice better than anybody else. I've seen people, people's practices, be lit on fire because they chose a specific sliver of the world, understood their needs in an in-depth way that nobody else did, nobody else bothered to, and just did that, that they just became specialized and didn't try to be a jack of all trades. And moreover though now this is going to sound like mom's apple pie here they listened Like, they customized, peter and I love your question they customized the services to what it is that that population generally demands.
Speaker 3:For example, when financial advisors say and this is another like lack of transparency thing that, like it, drives me nuts we provide financial planning, what does that mean? Financial advisors? You know what I'm saying? Is that? What Is that a need money printout? Is that a cash flow projection? Is that an assessment of what my taxes are likely to be when I start taking distributions? What does it mean?
Speaker 3:Financial advisors? It's very hard to sell something unless there's total transparency about that. So if you're working with um, yeah, let's say, for example, business owners, um, how many of them have a 401k plan? How many of them need that? That would be one of the things that I would write on your website, because, in my understanding, especially the smaller businesses have this misconception that 401k plans are just for Fortune 500 companies. Right, so that is where you can make a huge dent in the world. You can dispel a myth if you're willing to include that in your services.
Speaker 3:And it's an example of not just saying, well, I'm going to provide the whole suite of services under financial planning, but maybe having a little bit of specialization. I mean, I've seen people do this with DIY investors. There are people that are involved with the Bogleheads movement, that, where a lot of these people that are DIY investors are very investment savvy, and I know people hate DIY investors, but the fact of the matter is a lot of them don't know anything about social security or Medicare or the Irma, but really are not interested in having anybody charge them a management fee for service on their assets. So there are people that have lit their practices on fire by just saying okay, you win, I'm going to do what you need me to do, not what I want to do, so I can make my 1% and go all golfing and retire and have this whole big asset portfolio that just accrues over time. I mean, rick Ferry is like who is an hourly planner, is booked up for months and months and months in advance because he's decided to go that route.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. So I mean I think a lot of points there, but I think the big thing is like be concise and direct in the message that you're trying to get across and the people that you're trying to serve, because there's a lot of you know on LinkedIn, you see, a lot of you know just sharing the same things over again and press here and it's like what makes you unique, what makes you different, what actually makes me want to work with you. And then, if you've gotten me that far and I get to your website, how do I know exactly what you do? Right Is kind of what I hear you saying, sarah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. The other thing that drives me nuts is when people say well, I'm a fiduciary. First of all, you can't say you're unbiased, because everybody's biased, every fee model. If you're charging a fee, there's some kind of bias that goes there. But they say I'm a fiduciary, I act in your best interest. Or, as people say, like my fees are very low, my fees are fair. Or, you know, they'll even say like I charge an AUM fee so that I can be aligned with the needs of my clients.
Speaker 3:Okay, what is the AUM fee? Right, no one wants to do this. I'm transparent. We value transparency at our company. That's why we chose to be fiduciaries, charging our clients an AUM fee. What is it? Tell me, don't make me guess, don't keep it a secret, y'all. Okay, like, when I go to a restaurant, I want to know what it is on the menu before I look at the menu. And it's not that I'm cheap or anything, right, trust me, living in New York City ain't cheap. Okay, I'm not that cheap. Anyways, when we go to a restaurant, we want to look at the menu because we kind of want to know what we're going to be on the hook for.
Speaker 3:And then you see people that get stuck in these meetings and they're like well, I got through five meetings. And then the client. I told the client that it was going to be a $5,000 flat fee for a financial plan and they tore up the proposal and I never heard from them again, or like I keep calling and they don't call me back. You know it serves you right. Everyone listening, I don't care, I'll say it serves you right. If you're listening to this and you're a fee non-disclosure, don't cry to me. Argentina, okay, help the fees on the website. It's not that hard. If you can't say, and if you're not going to put your fees on your website, then don't come around here calling yourself transparent or I'm fiduciary, or this or that. Put your money where your mouth is and be brave and do it. If you're going to say I'm fiduciary, I'm transparent, I'm on the good team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely something to just being transparent, like regardless of if you're aum, you're flappy, you're commission based. Like tell people how you make money, right, tell, tell people what they're, what they're in for, like how is it going to look? And and you know what, have conviction and be positive in the way that you present it. Right, because it's like okay, maybe you like that, maybe you're okay with it, maybe you're not, maybe I'm a good fit for you, maybe I'm not, but at least before they even get there, it's what. You're okay with it, maybe you're not, maybe I'm a good fit for you, maybe I'm not, but at least before they even get there, it's what you're saying is like, don't try to put the blindfold on, and then let me get all the way into the second meeting with you. And then you finally tell me well, this is how I make money. And then it's like you know, no one knows what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, sarah, I want to pivot a little bit if you don't mind. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on how to generate leads right. So we've already built the service offering. We're transparent. Okay, now we need to fill our calendar and get some clients right. How do you turn on a spigot of influx and start conversations and finding the right people that you can really help and service?
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm going to tell you exactly how to do it. Everybody. Go to your LinkedIn and I want you to go to the privacy section of the settings and then I want you to download all your connections. Even if you have like 200 of them, that's still okay. And then I want you to search them. Okay, I want you to download it in Excel. If you don't know how to do this, you could just do a Google search on how do I download my LinkedIn connections?
Speaker 3:No, we're not going to be that annoying advisor that spams everybody and asks for a steak dinner or coffee meeting. We're not going to do that. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to find everybody. I mean, let's say that you, I don't know. Let's say you don't have a niche. You just you work with executives that are equity compensated. You're going to do a search on everybody that has the words managing director, maybe, president, ceo well, it's more business owners, but vice president, president okay, on those titles. And then you're going to make a list.
Speaker 3:Now, I don't want it to sound like, oh, she's one of those quota, like insurance trading program people. Well, I'm sorry, but it is a numbers game. You do have to be organized, but I want you to just put 20 of those people down on a list and then I want you to say this to them. Now I don't want you to say here's what I do, let's get a meeting. You should make it clear by your LinkedIn profile page what you do, right there in the title.
Speaker 3:I again just the same as the website I help farmers in uh, madison Wisconsin and the surrounding areas to retire with dignity. Boom. Okay, that should be right there in your title. They could see it in an instant. If they go to your page, if they have any interest in you, they will do that. So you don't have to tell them in the message. I'm a financial advisor for farmers in Madison Wisconsin. Right, they can find out. They already kind of know anyways. Okay, you're going to send them this message. Now, this is very complicated. Okay, I want everybody to take notes here I post about finance for farmers and other agricultural business owners. I wanted to know if you have any finance questions that I can answer using my social media postings. Now, that's very complicated. I want to just tell you.
Speaker 2:Anyone with call reluctance or hesitation. I think they can type that one out.
Speaker 3:Because you know what? I'm not making a sales call. What am I making? I'm making a service call. Okay, because if I do this right and I have farmers in Madison, wisconsin, who are in my LinkedIn network, now that's maybe not the best. I don't know, I don't. I.
Speaker 1:No pun intended. You're planting the seeds, though.
Speaker 3:I love this. Can I like come back? This is fun, sorry, okay. So, even if they say nothing, okay, at least you haven't gone out there like a schmuck, like a sales schmuck, like you can go back six months later and they're not going to be like, oh, like you can say something different Maybe that resonated better and they're not going to be like, oh well, six months ago she was trying to get me to, um, give her a. You know she wanted to take. This is the other line that people I'd love to take a second look. Give it. Be a second set of eyes for your 401k plan, right? I mean, yes, that is also offering to be of service, but that's, that's before you've made the transition. What I'm speaking about here is what I think is the most messed up step in any marketing, and it's the transition you have.
Speaker 3:We all have acquaintances, right? Most of us are sociable. We have brothers and sisters and in-laws and people who went to college with most of us, right? No, not everybody, and some of us are introverts. Okay, but still we have these spheres. Imagine if you mobilized everybody in your sphere in a calm, acceptable way, that you became that person that when they did have a question they asked you Because don't aim for leads, aim for questions, because if you answer the question and you hold it up, you then have influence over people. Then maybe later you know what. Then maybe later you can do the steak dinner question. Hey, I rounded up all the farmer questions and we're going to be having a steak dinner with all the farmers in May. Come join us right Then maybe you can do it.
Speaker 1:We're doing a seminar with pork chops and mashed potatoes and corn.
Speaker 2:Ah, gross.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's true, though. I mean like being an expert in the space and then because I think that's a much better way, like where we came from originally, it was very much so like this salesy mentality get in people's face, call them like if they're not doing it, here's what you do, and one of the best things that we ever did was like we just put information about insurance out there, right? Or like what the best advisors do they put information about financial planning out there, and it's good information and it's information that's timely, it's relevant, it makes sense right now. It's stuff that people have questions about. And if you're doing that and then, all of a sudden, you're like sitting at the dinner table with your spouse, or if you're single, or you're just thinking about it and you're thinking, oh, maybe I should get a hold of somebody for financial planning, who's going to pop into your head, right, and the strategy that you're suggesting and the point that you're making is going to point to you being that person.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think really like looking at everything you know. I mean first we talked about you know transparency, getting it on the website, building your service offering. Now we're doing some outbound marketing and then also creating that content Right, and before you know it, you're going to create a snowball, and also creating content will also build some confidence in yourself too. So what are maybe some you know items or head trash if you will that you got to get over that first year or two, getting over the hump and believing in content marketing and believing in your transparency.
Speaker 3:The biggest thing about content marketing is that the issue that a lot of people have, and especially when they're starting out, is I don't know enough to be producing great content. Learn it first of all, okay. And if you can't, don't just turn out the same old garbage. Know enough. And now, all of you know this because I'm on the podcast saying it If you turn out unfocused content with limited value, that's how you're going to be regarded. I will accept one social media post a month, I think. If, okay, if you're just starting out, I would presume that you maybe don't have a lot of knowledge, because I would presume you don't have a lot of experience and a lot of clients. I could be wrong, but that's most likely. So guess what? You most likely have a lot of time and a lot of clients. That could be wrong, but that's most likely. So guess what? You most likely have a lot of time. Beat the bushes down, okay. I would be so voracious for knowledge I would be reading up on every single aspect and it's not like you have to take expensive classes If you simply were to follow other people on the internet. There's Instagram, facebook, linkedin, like this. I LinkedIn. I think there's very few people, and I'm not saying to plagiarize or copy or whatever, but there's very few things that you can't master just using public knowledge that you can find for free if you really want to do it. The issue is that head trash or laziness comes in. It's like I don't know anything. Well, you're not really supposed to know it. Okay, learn it.
Speaker 3:I mean, you have to get used to this as an entrepreneur, that you are going to constantly have to reinvent yourself, reevaluate what you're doing. You're never going to be standing still, and if you can't do that, then go work for somebody else. If you can't pick up and go and have chaos and destruction, I mean, god forbid, but you never know what can happen to your business, and that, I think, has to be the trademark that all of us entrepreneurs have. Is that all right? I'm going to get up the next day and make it happen, and if you can't do that, go where. I mean. Look, I'm going to tell you straight up not all of you listening to this were meant to be on your own. Not all of you were meant to have your own firms.
Speaker 3:I don't know why everybody emphasizes this so much. Like I have to go start my own RIA. Why don't you just go be a paraplanner? You could make a very nice business just being a paraplanner and getting like 60 different clients, charging them a monthly retainer or charging the project fee, this or that, and you could participate in the action of providing financial advice and all of that, and it's a skill that a lot of people need. Here's another thing there is a succession crisis in this industry. All right, where people are going and I mean I'm not going to say any of the firms that they're selling to, because I don't want to get like canceled and sued. Okay, for like whatever is it called? Like what's that word it's called, if it's liable or slander right, liable like that liable, whatever it is.
Speaker 3:I don't want to like bad mouth anybody, but I mean, I think we all know out there that the clients get a really raw deal. It might be nice because you can like have the house in Acapulco, but your clients are really going to get a raw deal selling to some of these RAA aggregators nobody in particular, but anyways, I would go and I would be like the up and comer, Like why not be that person that enters the firm at that junior associate level? And I would be like like if I found out that I didn't have the get up and go to do it on my own, I would be like I'd be like heck, I'm going to embrace this up and comer successor thing and you would have the world to choose from, because there are so many firms that are great companies but they just can't find a good person that are great companies but they just can't find a good person.
Speaker 3:No, no, like I would be about it. I would be like so, like the best one, like like client wants a wire transfer at like 1130 on New Year's. I'd be like, yes, it's me, here's my cell phone. Like I would be like I want the, because I mean, why do you have to build it? If you can't build it, then just be like all right, I'm a smart person. I like finance Wasn't meant to build my own thing. Maybe I'm meant to like be one of the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and there's no shame in having a different purpose, right, Like I think there. I think there can be a lot of shame and that's where a lot of that comes from is people are like, yeah, I want to have my own firm, I want to build it, but then you know, we, there are people that have their own firms and they're like, huh, that wasn't for me. But then they go find meaningful meaning and purpose in other places and there's nothing wrong with that either, Right? Or like people that are at a firm and they're doing a really good job and they love it and they feel some sort of insecurity or guilt from not going and launching. It's like it's okay to know that it's cool to be a part of a team. You don't have to be that person that's out there doing the content and the calls and the messages or whatever it is that it takes to grow a business on a daily business, which is a lot. But no, that's a good point, there's no shame in it.
Speaker 3:I mean, even if you have to pay for it, like even if you have to pay to buy somebody's business like I'd rather see you driving Uber, you know and to save up for it a little side fund or whatever, like I'd rather see you doing that. And I mean there are some great company cultures out there at these RIA firms.
Speaker 1:Yep, there are for sure.
Speaker 3:Like awesome, why are you going to be like go be all alone, the coffee shop being broke, being like, oh I'm good, what if I get? What if I get audited by my stem?
Speaker 3:and you got to put up like the state regulators versus the sec yeah right and you're working in the coffee shop and you're all alone and you're like, oh, I can't wait until like the conference three months from now, when I could like talk to some people in person that are in my field. I'm so lonely Like just go get a great RIA firm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, sure, there's a lot of power through partnership. And even you know you don't have to be solo Brock, and I always joke about it. You know there couldn't be two Brock's, there couldn't be two Peters, right? So you're starting to see a lot of other RIAs too, right, we're on the insurance side, so completely different. But even on the RIA side, you're seeing advisors who they're five, seven years maybe into their practice and they're looking to the left, looking to the right, and they want to try to join up forces with other people. So that's an option too.
Speaker 3:But I think all of it. I think what I'm just trying to get at is like and I'm not trying to be like hippie-ish here, but don't go by some preconceived notion of what you think marketing has to be or what you think your firm has to be or what you think your focus has to be Find something that works for you and your clients and then make it work financially. Be creative. Other words like let your clients be them, let their needs be what their needs are, and you and your needs and your preferences and your strengths and your weaknesses, you go. Be that too and don't deny yourself and don't deny them Now their needs. And they have to be the focus, and that's what I'm getting at when I say go find out what questions they have. Like them, not you.
Speaker 3:This is what I say in my newsletter. Be the focus, and that's what I'm getting at when I say go find out what questions they have. Like them, not you. This is what I say in my newsletter. All the time them not you, them not you. They have to be the focus and the center of everything, but take time to really understand them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely All fantastic points, and I think that you bring a lot of good points to the table and you're bringing up things that a lot of people aren't talking about, and I think that's fantastic, sarah, for the people that have related to this message love what you're saying. Where can they follow along with what you've got going on in your messaging and work with you if they want to do that too?
Speaker 3:Oh well, thank you. I am on LinkedIn, sarah Grillo, cfa, and I'm not trying to brag or anything, but that's just how I'm on LinkedIn, like I'm a CFA charter holder. Um, sorry, I just I'm just trying to make it easier for you to find me. Okay, now I have Sarah Grillocom is my website and I just I want you to just sign up for my newsletter, because I have a daily newsletter where I just answer a question a day and it's about two paragraphs long. It's bullet points and about the length of two paragraphs. And I just have so much fun with this newsletter because I hear from like I got to tell you, I hear from like so many people and they just freely ask me their questions Like, um, one of them was like I had a wacko employee.
Speaker 3:She did some bad conduct and it embarrassed me in front of my clients. How do I handle it? Do I just do I say something and I was like email it out in a newsletter. Here's the script. Like I script in my newsletters to give people the words to say or the other thing is I protect people from bad products. Everybody's like should I buy this like AI thing or that AI thing to do my marketing and I'm like don't do it, you know. So it's like really fun, like I have so much fun writing this newsletter that I just want everybody to read it, because I love it when people read it. And then they like send me these little notes and they're like oh Sarah, haha, like you bashed this aspect of like what I'm doing and I loved it. You bashed all our websites, haha, and it's like so fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on. Everyone who's listening be sure to follow that newsletter, and we look forward to having you on in the future.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Sarah. Is it done? Recording.