Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
Only Fee-Only
#119 - Cut the Clutter: CircleBlack’s Sarah Toole on Smarter Fintech
After meeting Sarah Toole and the CircleBlack team at XYPN Live, we knew we had to have them on the podcast. Many financial advisors are drowning in tech, juggling too many platforms that don’t talk to each other. Sarah joins us to break down a better way.
We dig into how fintech can actually make an advisor’s life easier instead of more complicated. Sarah shares how CircleBlack’s open architecture gives advisors the freedom to build the tech stack they want—without losing a unified view of their clients. Clunky systems and hidden fees? Not here.
Technology should simplify, not frustrate. We get into the biggest tech mistakes advisors make, what to look for in a platform, and how transparency in pricing is reshaping fintech.
If your tech feels more like a burden than a benefit, this episode is for you.
Social and Website:
www.circleblack.com
https://www.linkedin.com/company/circleblack-inc-/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-toole-787716aa/
Email: sales@circleblack.com
Music in this episode was obtained from Bensound.
How's it going everyone? Welcome back to the Only Fee Only podcast. As always, we appreciate you being here. Before we dive in, I just want to take a moment to say thank you. This podcast has grown so much over the years and it's all because of the incredible support from you, our listeners, the Feeonly advisors who share their stories and everyone who's been a part of this journey, whether you've been here since episode one or just found us recently. We appreciate you tuning in, sharing the show and helping us keep these conversations going.
Speaker 1:Today, we are diving into the world of advisor tech with Sarah Toole. She is a partnership manager at Circle Black. If you're not familiar, circle Black is a platform that's changing how advisors manage portfolios, integrate technology and create a better experience for their clients. Sarah's got a front row seat to what's happening in the fintech space and we are going to unpack how advisors can use tech more effectively to streamline their businesses. We got to meet Sarah at the XYPN Live conference and she's absolutely awesome. This was a great conversation, so let's get into it. This is Sarah Toole on the Only Fee Only Podcast.
Speaker 2:What's up everyone, welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only Podcast. I'm Peter Travelo. I'm here with my co-host, brock Buckles, and today we are so excited to have Sarah Toole on from Circle Black. We were fortunate enough to connect with her at the last XY Planning Network Live and really excited to have her on and share Circle Black's story. So, sarah, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Thanks guys. I'm so happy to be here. It's a different environment being virtual with you guys than being in person. It's a whole different experience.
Speaker 2:I love it and I'd say you're maybe an anomaly for people in the BC Brokerage Network where we met in person first.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Network where we met in person first. Yes, most people we work with we've actually never met in person. So XY Planning Network is one of the few occasions that we might meet people in person. So, yeah, very nice to meet you in the other way.
Speaker 3:I consider myself very lucky. I got free candy, I got to go to the party and get to know you guys, and then I started following along thereafter and I think that order works really nice. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it. Well, that's how we bring people into the circle, but for those who don't know who you are and what Circle Black does, do you want to give a quick overview before we dive into the podcast?
Speaker 3:Sure, that sounds good, but before I do that, I have a quick poll. That I'm curious. I already know Brock's answer, but he had a chance to mull it over in the last few days, so I'm curious if it's changed. And, peter, I don't know your answer, but we were talking the other day about how people are scared of sharks and people are either an ocean person or a lake person and my reasoning behind being a lake person now is because I used to be an ocean person and I used to go tubing and we'd be like in the middle of the ocean and if you do that now there's so much more talk around sharks, they're always there, whatever. It is so curious, peter, are you a lake person, are you an ocean person? And how much would you have to be paid to swim out to a buoy in the middle of the ocean?
Speaker 1:And stay overnight. Right, we have to be sure of the ocean and stay overnight.
Speaker 3:Right, we have to be sure it's. It's well, really, the poll should be this. I initially asked brock. I said I wouldn't take a million dollars to have to be out there for like 24 hours yeah because I'm used to cape cod and there's so many sharks in that area, so you're in cape cod for this. What's your answer?
Speaker 2:um, if it's like swimming and we're not talking just the beach, so if it's just like the wide open ocean, I mean it'd have to be the lake. Um, I'm down here in south florida, I like to fish and one weird thing is if you don't pull the fish up fast enough, like if you're not cranking that reel, that a lot of times the fish will come up half eaten, um, because the shark bit it. So there's I know that they're down there and there's a huge shark population, um, and they don't care, they'll bite at anything. So, yeah, I would probably choose lake in this regard okay, brock, have you changed your answer on?
Speaker 1:no, my answer is still. I mean I'm, I have a boat on a lake, so I like the lake, but I'm going back to the other one For a million dollars. I'm going to try to stay on the buoy overnight. I'm going to try to do it. I might wimp out, but I think I'm going to try. Would you do it, pete A million bucks, buoy overnight, middle of the ocean, dark?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for a million bucks I would.
Speaker 1:If I was already on the buoy and it was calm seas.
Speaker 3:I would If I was already on the buoy and it was calm seas.
Speaker 2:I don't need to be out there with 10-foot swales hanging on for dear life.
Speaker 1:Have you changed your answer, Sarah? Are you still sticking with it? No, I'm still.
Speaker 3:Maybe I'd do it for a million. Maybe I'd change the amount to like 500k. That I wouldn't do it for. To me 500k, a million, whatever it is, doesn't really matter if you don't make it out alive.
Speaker 1:That's true, that's true, but what have you had to wonder? What have you had to wonder if you could have made it for the rest of your life? Though Just a quick influx.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Just the thought of it gets me all worked up because sharks in itself scare me. So I figured you'd keep your answer, but kind of going back to who I am outside of shark commentary and where I come from and my world within Circle Black. I grew up in the Boston area. I still live in that area. I was in sales. I grew up in the Boston area. I still live in that area. I was in sales, working in the human capital management industry for about eight years.
Speaker 3:There was so much hype in the financial services industry that I decided to take the leap of faith and I came over to Circle Black, which is also Boston based, and my role specifically is on the partnership side. Role specifically is on the partnership side, so I manage our existing partnerships within our existing integration partners as well, as I typically look to expand who's included in our WealthTech ecosystem and when I say WealthTech ecosystem I'm really talking about different custodians that we can partner with and integrate with tech providers, compliance partners and consultants. So that's my role within Circle Black. Again, we're Boston-based. I'm from this area, hence why I'm probably also scared of sharks being near Cape Cod. For those of you guys who aren't really familiar with Circle Black specifically. If it's good with you guys, I can give a little bit of background on Circle Black.
Speaker 1:Yes, please, please.
Speaker 3:Perfect. So we were actually founded in 2013 by someone named John Michael. Prior to starting Circle Black, john had helped construct the Merrill Edge and Bloomberg platforms. He decided to leave Bloomberg and started building out Circle Black. For our first client, which is RBC Clearing and Custody they're still a client to date, they're our largest client and one for our first client, which is RBC Clearing and Custody, they're still a client to date. They're our largest client and one of our first ones. John's mission was to help advisors grow their businesses by building a platform that's easy to use, saves time and provides flexibility and choice by plugging into other best-in-class tools that advisors use today. So we've been growing steadily for the past 10 or 11 years. We now have over 1,500 advisors managing about $100 billion in assets, and then I'd say, within the last two to three years, we've kind of changed our whole go-to-market strategy and we're really starting to focus or have been focusing in the last couple of years our efforts on the independent RIA market.
Speaker 3:So that's who we are, how long we've been around and kind of how we got started.
Speaker 1:I love it. So one of my favorite things to get into how you guys help advisors. So what are some of the problems or things that advisors run into on a daily basis that Circle Black can really help them with?
Speaker 3:Sure, I think that's a good segue, too, into what we do, who our niche is and all of that as well. But some of the things that we're experiencing and we try to help advisors with is as an advisor, there's certainly no lack of technology and solutions these days. There's certainly no lack of technology and solutions these days, and as advisors start to grow and scale their business, naturally they continue to add additional technology. Right, so they might start off with, say, a custodian, a billing platform and maybe just performance reporting, but as they grow, they might need to add additional functionality such as CRM functionality, financial planning tools, perhaps an additional custodian if they want to go multi-custodian and they don't just want a custody at one place.
Speaker 3:Very quickly, as advisors are adding additional technology, they realize that they have data and accounts scattered throughout a bunch of different systems there. So this can look like an advisor logs into 10 different websites, they have 10 different tabs open, they're toggling back and forth, Data might not match up between some of the sites and ultimately they lose efficiency as an advisor and it prevents them from being able to grow and scale, and oftentimes we find that it also can have consequences when it comes to the client experience as well, one thing that I think is worth noting and some of the stats that we typically try to follow along with to make sure that our product is up and coming and that it continues to handle some of the struggles and such that advisors are coming into. Today, 86% of advisors say that technology will play a significant role in their growth, 73% say that some of their top challenges are integrating the components of their existing tech stack, and 76% of advisors prefer flexibility and choice when it comes to their tech stack.
Speaker 3:So, we try to handle all three of those statistics and make it easier for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, we call those people tabzillas, the ones that have all the tabs open, right Like before you. You almost get the, you almost get the activity done in the one tab and then you jump to the other one before you can do it.
Speaker 3:Right, and then you forget what you were doing. You don't know which one's accurate Tabzilla. I've not heard of that yet, but I will certainly be incorporating that.
Speaker 1:And then you're like what did I do today? Like I just I just hopped from tab to tab. I toggled, I toggled, so look, what is it that makes you guys different?
Speaker 3:from, like other portfolio management softwares out there or system. Yeah, I think there's a few different things and as we kind of go through this, I'm sure some of it will be repetitive, because we really try to focus on a certain part of being different. So, for example, the top piece of what makes us different is that we can offer flexibility and choice. So, for example, like what I said before, if somebody is using a certain CRM system and maybe that works for them currently, maybe they outgrow that. We don't want them to have to then get rid of Circle Black just because they're changing their CRM system. So ultimately, it's like a plug and play model on like, if you outgrow your existing technology, there's other technologies out there that they can choose from. We don't just pigeonhole you into one and we figured out what we do best and we let best in class technology providers fill in those gaps.
Speaker 3:On the other pieces, such as CRM, financial planning, risk and compliance. So I'd say flexibility and choice. For sure, we like to think that our portal is easy to use, so we try to keep the platform easy to use and intuitive for both the advisor and the client. Platform easy to use and intuitive for both the advisor and the client. But it really is a balancing act, trying to offer a robust, complete system while also keeping it intuitive and easy to use. Another stat I came really prepared with stats here, so don't mind me.
Speaker 1:No, you're good. Advisors love stats.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I figure we need some numbers here besides the numbers behind me. 70% of advisors actually end up using less than 20% of their tech stack. So sometimes firms don't necessarily need all the bells and whistles right off the gate, and I think that's one of the things that makes us different is that we don't necessarily have a bundled approach. It's more of a all a cart pick and choose. What you need or some of the others are all these bells and whistles that might sound good from the beginning, but it can be overwhelming at the beginning as well. So to be able to pick and choose what services you need without paying for 100 percent of something that you're really only using about 20 to 30 percent of.
Speaker 3:I'd say those are top three. And then the final one, too, is just that we are super advisor and client focused. When John Michael started our company, it really began as an end client solution, so we haven't lost sight of that piece in the you, that piece. In the 10 years 10 or 11 years that we've been around. We've really tried to maintain a strong client experience via a client portal and a white labeled, branded mobile app. And, kind of on theme with what we've been talking about, a lot of advisors are becoming more like growth minded right and technology focused, and I'm sure you guys see this all the time. But it's really important to recognize the generational trends at play. For example, millennials and Gen Zers in particular. They have a really strong preference for managing their finances via digital platforms and mobile apps. Even baby boomers are increasing, adopting digital solutions as well. So I think as things change, you have to be able to evolve and I think the technology, the branded mobile app and all of that works really well with the advisors currently. What other trends?
Speaker 2:are you seeing in the tech stack? Like is there a particular like I feel like a lot of advisors that I've seen they're talking about, you know, digital note recorders. Like is there something in 2025 that you've seen? Like hey, everyone's asking us about this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say. A lot of people ask. I have a couple different answers to that. A lot of people are asking for like integrations and ability to be able to message back and forth in a compliant way, right, like not necessarily just via email, maybe it's through Slack, or maybe it's through note taking, via Zoom, so all of these different pieces of technology can come together in a way that makes it easier for the advisor. But that's a really common one, I'd say, is the ability to message securely back and forth.
Speaker 3:I don't know that advisors really needed to do that a long time ago or there wasn't as much of a need for it. Then we're kind of gone with the days of mailing statements out and sending invoices out and things of that nature, and again, I kind of feel like I'm repeating myself here. But I think that the biggest trends that we're seeing are flexibility and choice. So when somebody breaks away from a wire house, they're excited to be able to pick and choose what technology they use. Maybe they liked a certain aspect of what they were doing before, but they hated another piece.
Speaker 3:They can bundle it together how they want. So the flexibility and choice is a huge trend, and I'd also say the growth mindset. The trends still continue to show growth and independence. As a result, more and more advisors are having to research how to build and how to adopt their own tech staff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Those are the biggest trends that we're seeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's huge. And for people to be able to choose what works for them, I think is a huge thing. Right, because if you go out there and you're a business owner, part of the reason you're doing that is because you want the autonomy to be able to choose things right. You don't want to just be stuck in the box that you're in, and there's good and bad to doing that. Right, in the beginning it helps. You have systems, you know how to work across the platform Great. But as you learn more about it, like you said, you can start to see some of those things You're like eh, that piece isn't for me, but I like this. I want to keep that. Let's get rid of that. So it's really cool that you have the opportunity to do that with Circle Black.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think too. Another piece that's important is we're agnostic to what the advisor uses, right, so our goal is to provide them with as many options as possible and let them pick and choose what works best, and make it as easy as possible, for if something works for them now and it might not work for them tomorrow, a year from now, two years from now, we want to make it as easy as possible for them to plug and play and keep Circle Black truly as the way that they start their day.
Speaker 3:When they start their day, they open up their laptop, they log into Circle Black, they have their cup of coffee and they see a holistic view into their clients and what's going on day to day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely Definitely Go ahead, Pete, no I was gonna say, just thinking about BC brokerage.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're an insurance agency, but it's very easy for your tech stack to get very fat and for you to underutilize a lot of things, Right? So I think that just in the market in general, right, there weren't a lot of players at first, Like when you see the Michael Kitsis tech map. Right, like you need a Hubble telescope to look at it now.
Speaker 2:But, it wasn't always like that and there's many, many options, so it is important that you know you guys have different packages and things like that. So diving into that, like what's the engagement look like with advisors and firms with Circle Black?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you mean in terms of, like the different services that they utilize for us? Is that kind of what you're getting at?
Speaker 2:Correct that, and then maybe a little bit of pricing model too.
Speaker 3:Sure, so I'll start on the pricing side of it. So currently and I was going to say this at the end that we have a lot of upcoming releases that are coming out in the next call it month or so. So keep an eye out on our social media and we'll obviously advertise it and promote it as it comes up. Our pricing is available right on our website and I think that's actually a differentiator from us to some of our other providers or other competitors, I should say.
Speaker 3:You don't have to necessarily go through a demo in order to get pricing from us. You can go to our website and have it readily available. Currently, we just have two different packages. Currently, we just have two different packages, but we are moving more toward a more modular approach so that it coincides with the idea of being able to really pick and choose what services that you want to take advantage of and your build accordingly to that, which leads me into the second part of your question. I'd say so different level of services that we have.
Speaker 3:So the core of what we do is data aggregation. So our platform integrates seamlessly with thousands of different financial institutions. We integrate with all the major custodians and we leverage DST, dazzle, buyalls and Yodlee to access as many held-away accounts as possible. The goal of Circle Black and for an advisor to use us is really to be able to pull in as many accounts from as many sources as possible, to be able to aggregate and display all of that within the advisor dashboard.
Speaker 3:Okay, um, in terms of some of the other stuff that we do, though, we do offer the client portal and mobile app.
Speaker 3:That's one of our, I'd say, most sought after benefits of our packages is that an advisor can get their logo and branding within the app store and it really is circle black like on the back end, but it's really good for branding and it's really good for some of those younger advisors and those growth-minded advisors. So we offer client portal and mobile app, along with a bi-directional document vault for advisors to be able to send information securely back and forth, and then we calculate and provide performance reporting. So those are the three core pieces of what we do, and then you can bring in some of those other modules that we integrate with. So, for example, this is where you'll see the ability to pick and choose what vendors you want to use. So, on the CRM side, we offer integrations with the major CRM players in the space Financial planning. Similar Same goes for risk and compliance, so you can really pull it together so that information passes back and forth, so that you're not having to toggle all day long, or what do?
Speaker 3:you call it Zilla.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tabzilla, tabzilla, like Godzilla, except for tab instead of God.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I said Togzilla.
Speaker 1:Togzilla yeah, you can be a whatever Zzilla, it just means you're doing too much busy work. Okay, you just put zilla at the end of it. No, I absolutely love that and I think that it's something that's really cool is to be able to see, like your client's entire financial life, as far as the numbers are concerned, right in front of you by logging into one place right Like that's. That makes life so much easier than like what is it that I didn't check on a day? It's like, oh, my gosh, like I forgot to log into this, right. Um, so one of the things I want to dive into real quick, because I think it helps to know who you guys work best with Right. So there's obviously different size firms. You've got solopreneurs, you've got boutiques, you've got enterprise level firms that are massive. So who? Where do you guys really? What's the space you guys kind of like to live in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I would say, generally speaking, we work with advisors, broker dealers, ras of all shapes and sizes. I'd say, keep in mind RBC Clearing and Custody was our first client and is still our biggest client to date. Um, but all that being said, in the last call it two years, we've seen the most success in the small to medium size RAA market.
Speaker 3:So, there's no real threshold necessarily, but we're definitely seeing the most traction more on, like the boutique style firm, but also the medium style as well. So there's no real threshold, but that's certainly where we're seeing the most success, yeah, but definitely.
Speaker 2:You need to be up and running, have some clients, have a tech stack that you need and rely upon. You're going to have some numbers to look at. Right Pete yeah exactly. Vak and I always joke around. But you know in your first year or two like you probably don't need to be worried about the tech sack, you just need to be making relationships. And then, once you have relationships, that's when you need a tech sack and somebody just like circle black.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, and I would also say that to your point of like building relationships and all of that, like our. I guess this also goes hand in hand with your question of kind of like who's our target and what's our niche per se, we really like to work with the relationship focused advisor and I think that's just a really important piece of it. I mean, relationships are obviously the core of what we all do. I mean, I wouldn't have this relationship with you guys had I not built it when we were at XYPN. I wouldn't have the privilege of being on here had we not had that relationship and that in-person.
Speaker 3:So we really do try to, we gravitate toward the relationship focused advisors, for sure, and another piece too and we try not to touch on price too often. But I would say that we really do our best to ensure that cost is not a barrier for entry Because, to your point, pete, when you're just starting out, maybe you don't need all the bells and whistles, maybe you just need something basic to make sure that you get up and running. Um, so we're flexible on that and we're one of the few providers that that can be flexible on that. So I think that's also an important piece as well.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Well, you've had so many great things to say, Sarah. It's always good to get the chance to talk to you, and I'm sure there's going to be people that want to talk to you after this. So for those that want to reach out, what's the best way to do that?
Speaker 3:Okay, so I'll give two options. You can either go to our website, wwwcircleblackcom Hopefully that's easy for everybody to remember or you can email us directly at sales at circleblackcom, and I would also say follow us on LinkedIn. Keep an eye out for some of these releases that we have coming out. We're really excited for it to go live, and that should do it.
Speaker 2:Love it. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for your time today and thank you for sharing Circle Black.
Speaker 3:Of course. Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Sarah.