Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
Only Fee-Only
#129 - Cutting Complexity and Growing Community with Guy Penn
What if financial planning could be simpler—and better?
Guy Penn, founder of Core Planning, joins us to share how building the simplest version of an RIA has led to something powerful: a close-knit community of advisors built on generosity, trust, and support.
At Core, everything starts with one question: “What can we remove to make this better?” Instead of adding layers of complexity, the firm focuses only on what helps clients and advisors. The result? A place where people come first and relationships thrive.
Generosity is the core value. Advisors help each other, share ideas, and grow together—without sacrificing their own unique way of working.
Guy also challenges the idea that experience is everything. He believes new advisors bring fresh insight and asks the questions others overlook. At Core, they’re welcomed and empowered to use the tools that work best for them.
And for those struggling with impostor syndrome? Guy’s advice is simple: “If you act with integrity and are willing to find the answers, this profession needs you.”
Connect with Guy Penn on LinkedIn or check out Core Planning to learn more.
Guy's Social:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/guypenn/
X: @guympenn
Music in this episode was obtained from Bensound.
How's it going everyone? Welcome back to the Only Fee Only podcast and, as always, thank you for being here. In today's podcast, we are talking to someone who's rethinking what financial planning can look like when you start with real human connection. Guy Penn is the founder of Core Planning, a firm built around the idea that good advice doesn't start with spreadsheets. It starts with people. Guy's work is grounded, intentional and refreshingly honest in a space that too often chases complexity. He's not trying to be everything to everyone, and that's exactly why his message resonates so deeply with so many people. Whether you're a planner, a client or someone just trying to do life a little bit more deliberately. This conversation is worth your time. Let's dive in. Here is Guy Penn on the Only Fee Only podcast.
Speaker 2:What's up everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast. I'm Peter Travolo, I'm here with my co-host, brock Buckles, and today we're very excited to have Guy Penn on. He's the founder of Core Planning and so excited to have him back on the show. So, guy, welcome back.
Speaker 3:Thanks, gentlemen, I appreciate it. It's good to be back. I feel like it wasn't that long ago, but looking back I guess it's been a little bit of time. And now I'm here for you. This is going to be fun and just yeah, you lead the way.
Speaker 2:Absolutely love it. Well, for those who don't know who you are, you want to give a quick overview of who you are and what core planning is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm Guy and we keep ourselves in the background a little bit. You may have heard of us, but core planning is this it's this community RIA? It's not. There's not a real definition. That's good out there for what we're doing, but we're just a group of equals coming together and building a home together and we're trying to keep it really simple. There's nothing more complicated than that, but we're having fun doing it. We're not out there advertising, we're just out there having fun and seeing what the universe brings.
Speaker 1:So I like that attitude, man, and for more on that, go back to uh, episode 40, which we recorded in march of 23, which is crazy. Um, we're now at over 110 episodes. That was before we hit even episode 50, so that's really cool, man. But like what's changed? I mean you guys are you know, you're growing core's phenomenal. People love what you guys are doing. You have the most listened to podcast so far, so people are definitely interested with what you're doing, what you have to say. But I mean, what's new with you guys, man? What's cracking over at Core?
Speaker 3:You know, what's beautiful is how much we haven't changed in that time other than the number of us. You know, we're really trying to keep true to what this is supposed to be and like what is the simplest version of an RIA and that concept. We don't develop too much. We're going to add new tools, we're going to add people. The best part is just the people we have. That's everything. That's all there is. That's like a firm, like an RIA. It's just a piece of paper. An RIA. It's just a piece of paper. It's just like this thing that files paperwork. All that there is are people. So there are more of us. The community is incredible, the voices in there unbelievable. Because anyone can replicate a tech stack. Anyone can bring compliance together. That's easy and that's table stakes, but no one can replicate our team. So that's what we're proud of and that's the biggest change is the voices we have in our community. It's awesome. I love that. So that's what we're proud of and that's the biggest change is the voices we have in our community. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:I love that. So the simplest RIA. So what does that mean to you besides just values and culture? How do you attract your financial planners, and thus how are they attracting even clients into the ecosystem and buying into the core process Are?
Speaker 3:they attracting even clients into the ecosystem and buying into the core process. Yeah, so when we think of the simplest version of an RIA, you can visualize every RIA that's out there, every firm that's out there and in the firm that we began as and like start with, what can we remove to make this better? Like, what can we take away to make this better? Your typical firm, so to speak. We've got committees, we've got managers, we've got all these things, but does the client benefit from those things? Some weird language argument? You can make that. They might, but if you just strip away, what do you have to have? You have to have compliance in place. You have to have good technology that makes communication flow and communication seamless, but beyond that, you don't need a whole else. You know more than that. You need to have your people, and that's where we come to the terms of.
Speaker 3:You know, I ran solo for a long time, as you all know, and it works, Like the solo model works. I'll never put it down. I did it for like 10 years, but it took me that long to realize it wasn't totally for me, Like what was missing was just having my people and everything else we can build along the way. But the simplest version of an RIA is eliminating layers of managers, layers of things birthday committees, all these things. So if we want to add something, which we do, there's pieces of tech we will add. But it's like does this benefit the client directly in some meaningful way? Does it make our lives easier in a meaningful way? And if so, it will benefit the client because we have more time for that person.
Speaker 3:So those are like the logistics of how we come across decisions on if we're going to add something. It has to meet those criteria.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the people, because I know you're a big people person, love people. Community that you guys have is all about people. What do you think it is that makes different people tick Right? Like, not all the advisors that you guys have work in the same way, want to work with the same people, are going to have the same way about going. You know the same way of going about things. So what is it that you think is okay about that? And then are there some fundamental things that, as people kind of come on, maybe you're help coaching them along, that you're like these are kind of non-negotiables. You do need to make sure you're doing this to have a successful practice. Like what? What are your thoughts on that man?
Speaker 3:You know that's a great point, because this is paradox of the more diverse of a group you have, the more opportunity for friction, but the more opportunity for like beautiful things. So, like this chemistry of like baking or cooking, like two elements can make something great, or like blow it up. And if everyone that we talk to before they come and join up with us, we talk about like the key words that matter most, number one word we use is generosity. We talk about like the key words that matter most, Number one word we use is generosity. A generous person should be here because we need to give each other time, for you know, so-and-so is really good at small business tax and so-and-so is good at you know this or that.
Speaker 3:We know what each other's good at and we're okay being generous with our time because we'll need it someday. So we're all very different in how we process and operate, which is a great thing because we can learn from that. But if we come on this, like the heuristics of what matter most generosity, acting from a place of integrity and, like you, check these boxes off and realize the other person across the screen from me it has those check boxes, how can their differences help me learn more. So that's really what it comes down to, is like a few key words that matter most to us, but, yeah, generosity is the big one. Like we hit on that one a lot, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have something, Pete Sorry?
Speaker 2:No, no, I was just thinking. You know, and also like I feel like a lot of your new advisors that are coming in, you know they're not new, it's more of a merger right They've been. You know, maybe an XY planning network person who you know it can be lonely out there being solo right and that's where CORE can have that community. So you know what's the growth look like for CORE. How are you guys continuing to grow? I mean, it seems like every single time I get on LinkedIn there's an update or a new team member. So it's been very exciting to see.
Speaker 3:You know, what helped us, like a couple years ago, is what we don't want to do now. And I'll go back like in the beginning. When there's just a few of us, it's go out and get attention. Okay, because that's that's what you have to do at this point. Almost everyone who comes over is here because they know someone here, and that's what we really wanted. Like that is the point to where, okay, we do. You know we're doing this right. We have a lot to learn.
Speaker 3:I'll never pretend to know what I'm doing or know that this is the right way and hopefully, five years from now, we look back and laugh at what we're doing now. That's the whole point of like you grow when you can laugh at what you've done before. So before we were putting job postings out and these things, that was really hard because I would get a hundred emails and maybe one or two of them were like, oh, I wouldn't really want to work with this person there was, and then we got great people through that, but it was like an oppressive process. It's much easier now when people just say, oh, I know like three people over there, I'm going to go check it out. That's so much easier and you're like you're far likely to get someone that you can't wait to hang out with.
Speaker 1:Man, I think we might've just opened up a can of worms, because when you talk about bringing the right people on, there's something to that right, and if people don't fit the culture and I'm not gonna ask you for examples or anything like that, but like just in your professional working career, I mean, how have you noticed that that kind of can affect things? Right, cause, like you have that community and, like you said, now feels more like it's friends, of friends that are coming on board, which is awesome because you're like yo, we're all together, we all get that so likely, if you're bringing somebody else on, they're going to have the same attitude and so that's a huge thing. But when you're filtering and you're getting a hundred emails and only one person works out out of all those 100 emails, and then maybe you feel like you're forced to bring on the wrong person and then that doesn't work out. Like, can you talk about how that affects culture, because I think that's an important thing to talk about.
Speaker 3:It's the hardest thing. It's the hardest thing when you jumpstart a culture. Once you have like this threshold number, culture becomes I don't want to use it easier, but it's self-sustaining. Now, every firm everywhere has a culture. Whether it's purposeful or not, there is a culture. It could be accidental, it could be bad, it could be whatever. It's just something that emerges. It's inevitable. So, jumpstarting the first 15-ish, 20 people, that's such a beautiful start because then you have this self-fulfilling structure of if someone new comes in and we're all on Slack. They can scroll up months or years to see the energy of a place and it helps them understand. Hey, this is about how we operate because it's all there, it's digital, but every conversation is there for everyone to see. We don't delete anything. We have years of internal conversation that someone new comes in. They explore everything that has been and that is a way to self-solidify a purposeful culture, not an accidental one, because, like I said, every firm has a culture, whether they like it or not, or they designed it or it just happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's reminding me of the president's book of secrets, except for everybody has access to it. It's like once you join core you can scroll the entire. But no, I mean like I don't imagine there's been a ton of problems, honestly, just based on knowing you. So when you're bringing those people on, though, like for new advisors right, let's say it's somebody that wants to get into the space, Are you guys doing that still, Like if someone's brand new to the space? Are you still bringing people like that on? Or is it more so like all right, maybe this is an advisor that's out there, they're already doing well, they already have a good business, but they're kind of like guy for the first 10 years where they're like you know, this just isn't. Isn't for me. I want that community, I want that culture, I want to have that sounding board.
Speaker 3:So we are still. We will bring on an advisor if they're brand new. Now we want to know that this, this is someone who is someone we want to grow with and, from the beginning and this is something that was very purposefully designed is, we've never charged an advisor to join. We don't get anything out of that relationship for a year or more financially.
Speaker 3:That forces us to say, hey, we're not rushing to bring people on because they can pay us like whatever. We want to know, is this someone we really enjoy hanging out with? And another factor, that there's more to what we as a community gain than revenue. So if someone comes over and they're high energy, they're learning, they're fun to be around, they're bringing ideas to the table, that is valuable. That's a thing. That's how you sustain a culture is by injecting communities with new life. So we can't just bring on like 15 people who are brand new we are still very small, we don't have the structure for that but here and there, one at a time, we've certainly done that and it's worked out well because someone brand new, they've got great ideas.
Speaker 3:And that's the funny thing about this profession. You hear someone you know say, oh, I've got, like you know, 30 years experience. Some of them have like one year experience. I repeat it 30 times. It's like someone new can be brilliant and smart and helpful and we can learn from, because they're coming at this with fresh eyes. They're coming at it with new ideas. That's valuable. Those are our mentors. Someone could be here brand new and be a mentor, because we all know my learning capacity is floundered. I got four kids. I'm like just tell me what you need me to do's tough yeah so like, yeah, people who are new, very valuable people I love it.
Speaker 2:So, like what have been some of those like new ideas that maybe have been challenging or something? Hey, I never even thought of that, you know. Are there any that stick out to you?
Speaker 3:you know, a lot of times it's like exploring new tech pieces. There's 10 million out there, like you've seen these maps and whatnot. It's insane. But having people say, hey, have you tried this? Or hey, I demoed this, or hey, here's a canva template, that's, that's really cool. Or, you know, here's how I'm thinking about. You know income, you know in retirement and distribution strategies. And another thing that is super valuable when someone comes over whether they've been here, you know, or have they been in this profession 20 years or they're new, the act of asking a question is everything like public questions. So if we do one-on-one mentoring, two people are interacting. It's beautiful, someone's learning. If we do that publicly, 15 people are learning. So the act of asking a question in public is valuable. That lets 10 people say I didn't even think to ask that. What a great question. And now we're all learning together. So even someone new asking 10 questions super valuable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that man because I think that you know there's something to understanding the way that people work and not that an environment can get stale, right, I mean, they definitely can, sure, but when you're around people and you kind of know how they think and you know before you even say something, you're like maybe I'm not even going to bring it up because I already know how they're going to respond, or our brains work differently. So I'm just going to assume this one, like even Peter and I, we think very differently. So sometimes he's like well, I thought you think this and I'm like, well, we didn't talk about it. Or like same to him, right? So it's important to get stuff out there and dialogue and like understand what's going on in each other's brains, because that makes everybody stronger, and so that's such a good point.
Speaker 1:Like the tech pieces, but also I think there's opportunities where they can be like well, have we thought about like taking the business that way? Or like I know that usually we want to only work with clients that are doing this, but like have we thought about doing a course? Or like you're just like holy cow, it could be something that they saw on, like some forum or something right. So I think there's something really neat to that.
Speaker 3:No, you're, totally. You're right. What's also cool is having an answer like a year ago doesn't mean that's the same answer we'll come up with today, Like that was the answer in that environment. So asking a question two or three times, some people will say well, that's super inefficient, that's terrible. But if you ask the same question that was asked two years ago and you saw an answer from two years ago, ask it again. Let's reevaluate, Because at that point all the conditions at that point led us to X, but right now the answer might be Y. So ask it again. Let's keep asking questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So what are the tech stack pieces? I mean, what have been game changers for you? Obviously, you said there's a million out there, right? What have been some of the ones that have differentiated the way that you guys are doing things now from maybe the last time we talked?
Speaker 3:Tech-wise, not a lot. It's different. We're going to use the same tech most advisors that are listening to this are going to use. Most of us are using using right capital, it's beautiful, it works. Wealth box, you know, those are like the things that like for operations, from an internal standpoint, like from a firm standpoint, we have to have certain you know cybersecurity things. So we have like a single sign on vault where all of our apps are. Then that launches the things we need. We've got, you know, our digital intake that feeds into, you know, our box drive. So those are like the internal things that have kind of always been there. That was our foundation and we're not changing much of that. So what we try to do as far as like a minimal RIA is, say, we don't have like a firm wide planning software. Someone might love AssetMap, someone might love Element, like there's a dozen. They're all great for certain things. So let an advisor choose what they love and then plug it in to our base foundation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it is plug and play, which is very nice, and I think that that also allows advisors who, like you said, they might be accustomed to doing something some way, so there's not a huge learning curve coming over to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and from a firm standpoint, plug and play is the future. I've seen firms go down trying to build their own tech. It's a very difficult process that is obsolete very quickly and so you have developers on salary at all. It's hard, but if you can have a process by which you can plug apps in and I mean we're all like this app based ecosystem Look at our phones Like what's the best weather app? What's the best?
Speaker 3:Like find the best app for what you need and plug it in and something better will come across, you know, a couple of years from now. Awesome Client benefits. Plug it in, yeah it's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's definitely an ever evolving space and more and more technology is always coming out, man, so you got to be ready to adapt and grow. Peter and I are always talking about that. Like there's little things that were like life changing, like AI, note takers in Zoom meetings, like I don't I still don't know what I was doing before, that We've only had it for like a year Like it's just like little things that can really take you a lot further. But so everybody can kind of see the clock man. Now I want to know how the clock's working, like what's in your brain, because I think that you're a fantastic leader, so I'm going to ask you a deep one. Think that you're a fantastic leader, so I'm going to ask you a deep one how do you define happiness and what does that mean to you? Whether it's through work, personal life, you seem like a person that knows who they are and understands who they are and knows what it takes to be happy. So how would you define that, man, and how have you found that over the years?
Speaker 3:Happiness is tough, that's a tough word. I'm a happy person but I find that I derive that from family. I derive that from things. Having a mission to go toward is happiness to me. It doesn't mean I hit that number, hit that thing, but pushing toward it is fulfilling. Fulfillment and contentment are like deeper things. For me.
Speaker 3:Happiness can be this thing that comes and goes. You have we have down moments. We have you know ups and downs, as human beings do, but looking for contentment, not having to pretend to know all the answers ahead of time, that took me a long time because that makes it a really oppressive world to live in when you're trying to like know what is around the corner, or if you just release the idea that you don't know. But or if you just release the idea that you don't know but you trust that you're smart enough to figure it out. When you get there, you turn the corner, you face this thing now what do we do? And just trust that you can get through that. So yeah, for me personally, it's understanding that I don't have the answers, and when you release the burden of that, I get happier, releasing the burden of having to know something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as I was asking that question, I was literally like happiness is fleeting Maybe there's a better word for it, but you clarified, man, that was perfect. Fulfillment and contentment is a really good one. Well, anything else, man, that you would want advisors out there to know, or anything that you want to talk about as far as core goes, or who might be the right fit for the culture if they want to reach out, or if you're even doing that right now?
Speaker 3:You know we are always open to new people coming across us and we're easy to find. You can find me. I'm Guy Penn. I'm like the only one out there.
Speaker 3:And one thing that's cool about culture too that helped us is, you know, we've put ourselves totally out there, like how we do things internally. We have a field guide. It's on our website and it's like an internal structure that has helped us to where someone can look through that and go, hey, this isn't the place for me. That's cool and that's a good thing. And then someone else might read and go, oh my gosh, like who do I call? Those are the things that we want to happen and, from a sense of what I would recommend to advisors in this space if you've been doing this a year or 20, is it's okay to not know and this imposter syndrome they can talk about.
Speaker 3:I'll bring that up real quick because I have noticed that throughout my time talking with a lot of advisors, the best ones out there think the less of their own process, question themselves. That's what makes them great. It is a really tough internal battle, but I promise you, if you are acting from a place of integrity and you are able to find answers. This profession needs you, no matter how you think you are at this. You're probably really good at it and there's this permission that you don't need me to grant, but grant yourself this permission to do the work, because the work needs you, because you're acting from a place of integrity, and you'll figure it out, like if you've got a couple of thumbs and a smartphone. You will figure this out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's beautiful. That's a clip right there in itself. So, guy, what's the best way people can follow along? You know, I know, you're active on LinkedIn, the website. What's the best way to get in touch with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just yeah. Look me up Guy Penn, and you'll find me. Look up Core Planning. Look at the team we have. Look at the people that's the beautiful thing. We've got really cool people and ask questions, Ask a lot of questions, and that's the best place to start.
Speaker 1:It's awesome, man. I always love talking to you. Man, you're, you're, uh you, you have this, uh, you have this way about you that just makes you feel like present and centered and and like you know, it's a good way to think about life and, uh, really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 3:Well, you guys bring out the best in others, so I appreciate your time, thanks man, Thanks guy.