Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
Only Fee-Only
#139 - Two kids, three master’s, and one $4 coconut water debate - Prudence Zhu
Prudence Zhu (pronounced "zoo"), CPA, CFP®, CFT™, is the founder and CEO of Enso Financial, a fee-only financial planning firm dedicated to helping couples, families, and entrepreneurs thrive through open communication and values-driven money management.
Born in rural China, Prudence moved to the U.S. in 2012 alone with few belongings and achieved financial freedom nine years after through conscious spending and smart investment decisions. She transitioned from a successful corporate finance career to entrepreneurship, focusing on serving cross-cultural couples, small business owners, and foreign-born professionals.
Prudence is the author of A Couple’s Guide to Money: Grow Closer, Dream Bigger, Thrive Together, which blends financial planning with communication coaching to build lasting financial success. Prudence is passionate about transparent, fiduciary advice and believes that love and money together can be a true superpower.
Buy the book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FS58FXFG
Book website: www.InvestWithPrudence.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/prudencezhu/
How's it going, everyone? Welcome back to the OnlyFe Only podcast. And as always, thank you for being here. For all of you that we saw at XYPN Live in Austin, always great catching up. In this episode, we talked to Prudence Zoo, who is the founder and CEO of Inso financially, the only financial planning firm dedicated to helping couples, families, and entrepreneurs thrive through open communications and values-driven money management. She was born in rural China and moved here in 2012 with a few belongings and achieved financial freedom in nine years. She transitioned from a successful corporate finance career to entrepreneurship, focusing on serving cross-cultural couples, small business owners, and foreign-born professionals. She's the author of a book that just came out, A Couple's Guide to Money, Grow Closer, Dream Bigger, Thrive Together, which blends financial planning with communication coaching to build lasting financial success. She's passionate about transparent fiduciary advice and believes that love and money together can be a true superpower. What a bio and what a person she is. I'm excited for you all to listen to this episode. So enjoy this episode of the Only Fee Only Podcast with Prudence Zoo.
SPEAKER_00:How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only Podcast. I'm Peter Travolo. I'm here with my co-host Brock Buckles, and today we're very excited to have Prudence Zoo on. She's an author and she's also the founder of Ensu Financial. Cannot wait to have her on and let her share her story. So, Prudence, welcome to the show today.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be on. Thank you for inviting me.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, of course. Um, so for those who don't know who you are, do you want to give a quick background of who you are before we uh really dive into things?
SPEAKER_02:I will try to be fast because my story is very uh diverse. So I was born good.
SPEAKER_01:Don't don't even worry about being fast. Just start from the top and we'll go from there.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, awesome. Yeah. Uh I was born in Central China, and I went up to Beijing, the capital city of China, for education. And then I started my career in private equity in West Africa. Did it for two years, didn't like it, wanted to explore more, so I got my MBA at uh University of Notre Dame. That's when I came to the US. That was 2012. And then graduated, switched to corporate finance, uh, reached my financial freedom like uh seven years after graduation or nine years after I moved to the US, and then started exploring like what's my next phase in life and landed in Fiona Financial Planning and Life Planning. So here I am with my new book, uh Couple's Guide to uh A Couple's Guide to Money.
SPEAKER_01:I love it, I love it. So I mean, that's an interesting story. Literally, coming from another country, trying a career, not liking it, coming to the United States, having financial freedom within seven to nine years. Um like very interesting to kind of start there. So, what was it about the first career that you just didn't like or didn't really speak to you and made you want to go do something else? Because a lot of our listeners are in that spot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I think for me it was two phases already, right? Two years in private equity. I I think you heard it probably, like it's long hours, it's high stress, and for me personally, it was a clash of values and also um the lack of impact that I can see from my own work. Because a lot of times you spend hundreds of hours into analyzing a deal, following up and trying to present, and then in the end it falls through for reasons that's not within your control. And it's it's really frustrating. So that's why I switched to like a real economy, not the just the you know financial modeling, but I also want to see the impact of my work. That's why I switched to corporate finance, and then I think it fit very well because I'm a woman and I wanted to uh grow a family. Uh right now I have two kids, eight-year-old and four-year-old. So back then it was a good fit for my uh work-life balance. And but then it was was not completely fulfilling because I always wanted to do more. And that's when I um started to explore after, you know, actually during my second maternity leave, and then really it was like thinking about, you know, how do I structure the next phase of my life?
SPEAKER_00:So, what were maybe some mentors, or you know, like what were you kind of striving towards when you were making that transition? Because I know you were saying that didn't align with your values and that you wanted it to align with your schedule and what you what else you were trying to build outside of work. Um, so what were like some North Stars or what was kind of your guide?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so in my early career, it was uh surprisingly uh the founder of Ashoka. So the it's a social enterprise. That's what I strive toward because I believe the power of good business. And actually, that's the new slogan of my uh business school, Mendoza, and ask more of business. That's the slogan back then, and now it's build the good in business. So it really aligns, like you know, good business is what we need to you know focus on as a community, as a culture, as person, individuals, and we need to um empower others to do the same.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about you getting into opening up your own firm, right? So you're having your second maternity leave, you're thinking about it, you're coming up with ideas, doing a lot of research. What were some of the things that you kind of discovered throughout those research? And then what ultimately led you to actually taking that first step to open up the firm?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's uh really the people that I met. So interestingly, so I did part-time entrepreneurship when I was in corporate uh finance, but both failed. So I realized I need a systematic approach to entrepreneurship. That's why I got my third master's degree at ASU on uh entrepreneurship and innovation. And through that, they the program requested us to do like a hundred market interviews. So basically, I interviewed like code reach out to people in the industry. And I like after count like talking to people, both customers and potential customers and uh stakeholders and uh professionals, I realized the people who speak to me the most, that I resonate with the most are the Fiona financial planners who also has a focus on life planning, meaning they don't really just optimize your money, but also they recognize it's just a tool to live the life you want. So it's just a tool means to an end, not the end goal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I love the idea of the life planning, right? Because it it's it's like you said, it's not just like, okay, well, I guess we have the numbers down, you're saving it in the right accounts, we have your investments the way that it is. It's, you know, the a lot of what we talked about when George Kinder, who I know you're very familiar with, um, talked about when he was on the podcast, is like, but what is the meaning behind the money? Like, how did you come to those perceptions of money? Like, uh what would you do if you had X amount of money? And so actually getting people to think beyond just the dollar amounts uh or the money amounts themselves, is uh is a really big thing, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Like speaking from my own personal experience back in 2021, I reached my financial freedom goal and I wasn't happy. And actually back then I didn't even know about financial planning. I didn't know about life planning. So for years I've been like putting my blinders on, just go, go, go, go, go for the goal. And finally I reached it, and then I realized, oh, there's so what's next, right? So I feel like I could have a little um like avoided a lot of the detours and self-doubt and frustration when I was like working towards my goal um by understanding where I'm aiming for and like what's the end goal, what's the end status? But these days I realize it's just a journey and just enjoy the journey with confidence and clarity. That's the most important thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So um like for those who might currently have horse blinders on, right? Like what would you say to them as far as um, you know, waking up a little bit and maybe looking at things a little more holistically and zooming out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think um, first of all, you're doing a great job. It's wonderful that you have a goal and you are taking actions to achieve that goal. And and second of all, it's like it doesn't have it doesn't have to be that hard. And you don't have to go it alone. So that's what I want to say to them. There are I've benefited from so many mentors, friends, um, some of them were on your podcast, um, and encouragement from a lot of people, the community. Like Fiona community is really, really like a family now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's a special thing. I was just talking about that. We were at the XY Planning Conference, right? And um, we were talking about that with people where other parts of the industry, you just do not see the generosity and people giving their time and the abundance mentality a lot of times that you do in the fee-only community, where they'll go as far as to say, hey, this client's really not right for me, but I would like them to find another advisor. And it's like, yeah, I'd be happy to help. So uh we're we're the world that we come from originally, that's not really a thing. Um, so that is really cool to see. Uh, when you were starting your firm, what were the ways that you were going about growing it? Because I know you said you had some other businesses that were not as successful as you wanted them to be. So you had you went back to management school or got your third third master's degree, which holy cow, uh, that's a lot, which is really cool. But what was your approach going in to starting it in terms of growing it um ultimately that kind of led to the success of it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I think my mentality coming in was to I do as many things as possible, but I'm also being cautious on the things that's draining my energy. And then over time I iterate. That's a pop word in the entrepreneurship uh or you know, startup world. It's like iterate, iterate, iterate. So you you basically you reflect on what you've done, what the results were, and how it matched up to your expectations and your goals, and then make little changes along the way. So at the beginning, I did many things. As I mentioned, I did YouTube, I did podcasts, I did uh workshop, I did monthly webinar, I was engaged in local community, I did a lot of volunteering, like all that kind of stuff. And then now it's more distilled down to the things that I really enjoy and also see a good uh traction. So that actually, so my book was a product of a group coaching program um that was really uh uh excited me on seeing the progress because one of the first things that everybody could do is mindset and have it. Surprisingly, that's actually the core of financial wellness. And it was a three-month program, and I've seen 30% increase on financial wellness, decrease on financial stress, and increase in confidence and willingness to plan long term. Oh my gosh, those are such big words, right? But it's actual results that I saw that really encouraged me to put it out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, money's never the easiest to talk about. Um, you know, I mean it's easier to talk about many other items, but money always seems to be a touchy subject. And you know, a lot of it seems to come like from how you were raised, right? How money was money was talked about at home. So, like, what have been some main like you know, questions or just maybe something just to help keep that conversation going or to take it to another level to help align people's values a little bit more with their money?
SPEAKER_02:Lovely. It sounds like you read my book. So my book lies it out uh very clearly. Uh it's eight chapters. The first two chapters are just about emotions. The two core emotions, love and fear. So for couples, there is a good advantage, like a huge advantage. It's basically you could be each other's partner, mentor, and guide, and listening uh or sounding bored. And that's why I incorporate exercise so that it's going to be like almost an experiential learning process, reading the book and doing the exercise with your partner. Um it's like we first discover what we love, what's the foundation of our partnership, what we're trying to achieve in this lifetime, with you know, feelings, and then two chapters on vision, so your ideal day, week, and year, and then what's the big uh change you want to make? Because basically your past history is the best predictor of your future. And if nothing uh changes, then your trajectory will be pretty much be predicted, right? It's kind of predictable. And if we want to achieve something extraordinary, then change needs to happen. What's most important to you is the question you have to answer for yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:One of my favorite things. Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:No, I was just gonna say one of my favorite sayings is if nothing changes, then nothing changes, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, or some worse things happen, right? In the case that you run, you know, optimistically about your future, but then you don't have the right protections, and then things happen. Like, you know, I'm 40, so like health decline, responsibilities pile up, and all kinds of things, right? You're you run out of time. Not that nothing better is going to happen in second life, uh second part of life, other than you know, your acceptance of the reality.
SPEAKER_00:So exactly.
SPEAKER_02:So that's why I think it's important to take action right now, like no matter how small it is, whether it's like thinking about something you want to achieve, or talking about your emotions related to money, or you know, imagining what could be and taking some more actions towards that. That's the most important thing. And I just want to um go back to you know, my whole process with the book and with the program. So chapter five is about uh financial literacy or financial fluency. Now, people like to say that because we don't talk about money enough. In China, everybody talks about money. They ask you how much money you make, like probably the second question. First question, what's your name? Second question, how much do you make? Third question, how old are you? I married. So that's how direct people are. And I'm very direct. But I think yes, but I think but you can you can refuse to answer, that's totally fine too. Um, but I'm just saying it has to be the norm that people talk and think about, right? And then chapter six is about financial planning, because from my perspective, the clarity and vision, it's so important. And Morningstar has a has a research, a survey identifying that financial confidence and how long you plan ahead pretty much predict how successful you will be in terms of net worth. And it's across age, gender, and education and income. So that's why I think uh, you know, planning ahead and thinking comprehensively and having the clarity is so important. And then chapter seven is keep the momentum going, because it's a like I said, it's a journey, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. So we just have to keep doing it and make it a routine and enjoy it, enjoy the process. And chapter eight is very special to me. It's uh a bonus chapter for cross-culture couples and immigrants.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's really cool. So tell us about cross-country chapters and immigrants, because I I think that's uh that's really interesting. And obviously, you have experience coming to an entirely new country, learning the the monetary system over here. So tell us a little bit about chapter eight.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um, chapter eight, there are uh I think uh quite a few, like a couple of key concepts. Like the first of all is like we apparently uh coming to the US as an immigrant, everything is different. Insurance, like tax, income, like everything is different. And um marrying my husband, he's born and raised in uh West Coast, and um, he's American. Okay, he's completely different. We're we're very aligned on financial vigilance and you know being conscious about where we spend money and uh being wise about our investment decisions and being open to you know making a joint decision as a couple. But in small things, we still manage to disagree. And surprisingly, sometimes it's about very small things. Like in chapter A, I talk about you know, a four dollar bottle of coconut water led to a disagreement in in the supermarket in the early days of our relationship. Yeah. So the challenges are very different at a ha whole different level because it's culture, it's upbringing, it's your expectations from your family and yourself and from the society. And it's also about conflict resolution styles, because everybody has different styles of dealing with conflict, either you are avoidant, aggressive, or collaborative. It it changes the dynamic of the relationship and the collaboration. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So culturally, I mean, what are some you know key differences that you've seen just between you know Americans um, you know, and Chinese? I mean, like, is it I mean you mentioned before, you know, people they're not afraid to ask how much you make is the second question. Uh, and then you know what your relationship status is as third. So kind of what are some of those main differentiating things that you've seen?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I think uh if you look at the data, like Chinese savings rate is super high, and whereas the US is super low, and that's like a starter. So basically China. Um like I want to say um like 10 years ago, it was as high as 40%. These days that's healthy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That's that's basically what we aim for for earlier retirement, right? But the thing is that you have to take consideration, like in the in the in China, there is no social safety network. So they don't have social security or very minimal, and they still have to pay a lot of medical bills. And nowadays education is more expensive, more and more so. And um the assets are more volatile, like the stock market, the real estate, nothing is safe. So, you know, they need to build their own safety net.
SPEAKER_01:And how so how long did it take you to write the book? Because I'm kind of interested, just in terms of like uh the the the thought for me at least of writing a book is so daunting because it's like I don't even know where I'd start. Like, maybe jot some ideas down on a paper as to what I wanted to cover. But um, now that we know a little bit more about the chapters, like what are some of the things um that we should know about the book writing process for you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um I knew I wanted to write a book because just all the lessons and all the struggles I've experienced and seen with my clients as well. I want to help more people. So that's the that's the starting point. And then it actually took me two years to identify what's the topic. Initially, I wanted to write about, you know, how to uh do financial planning as a new parent, because that's what I struggled most, like seven years ago. But then it evolved with my experience, my interaction with my clients, and as well as the group coaching program. And then I finally had the idea, okay, this is this is it, like combining emotion relationship with money. Like I said, like love plus money equals superpower. So that's I I advocate and resonate with.
SPEAKER_01:That's really cool. I love that. Well, it seems like there's a there's a ton of great ideas in the book, and um, yeah, I really like chapter eight because we've talked to some other planners that are from different countries, and it's always interesting to me um what the differences can be. And it's fascinating to me to see people like you come from another country, know two different financial systems, um, and and and flourish inside of it, especially having financial freedom here, you know, inside of 10 years is incredible. So I'm curious about this. Obviously, the savings rate, but what's another thing that you feel like um people do better uh in China, just from your perspective, when it comes to money in general, having seen you know the way that the United States can be with money as well?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I don't see much of a difference elsewhere other than just like the spending versus uh savings, right? I I see I see pros and cons for both. It's just like the balance of the two and the clarity that understanding if it's serving you in the long run is very important. I want to say like for me, I really uh agree with the model of ESI money, so basically earning, saving, investing. So those are three core pillars of uh financial wealth. Not financial um wellness, but wealth in terms of numbers, right? So like I think both Chinese people and American people are very good at uh you know hustling. I I love the hustling culture here in the US. It's yeah, pretty much still the I want to say the wild west in the US. Like you can achieve anything if you put more your mind and action to it. And there is a lot of opportunity here in the US, which we don't have anymore in China. So I I just feel like very privileged and happy to be in this society where there are still possibilities and there are still, you know, a good environment to grow and thrive.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. Um, were there any other ideas that you wanted to share before coming on the podcast that you want to share with the audience?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I want to say uh I'm very excited about the awakening of the consumers. Because I think 20 years ago, be only was not a thing. And this year, when I go to the conference, there's the new word advice only, which excites me beyond you could imagine, even though my own business model still has asset management. But I think that's where we need to be as a profession.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. Yeah, advice only is fantastic. We know great advisors in both models, but it's uh it's really cool to see how much it's evolved just from you know the old investment managers, right? Because that's not that's not financial planning so much as it is building wealth, like you were just talking about. So um, well, uh, where's the best place for people to find you? I know that we've got the the Amazon book link, we've got your book website, and then we've got your LinkedIn. Are those going to be the best places? Because I can put those in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. I'm very active on LinkedIn, and you will see. Actually, in the book, I I uh took three of my more popular and relevant LinkedIn posts uh and like put it in the book. And I'm still like um constantly putting out more stories, client uh cases, and lessons I learned on LinkedIn. So yeah, that one would be the most up to date.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Well, Prudence, thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.