Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
Only Fee-Only
#146 - How A CFP And A CPA Team Up To Protect Wealth
Imagine walking into tax season already knowing the number.
That’s what happens when a fee-only planner and a proactive CPA plan the year together—before December 31. In this episode, we’re joined by Elliot Vaughn, CFP®, and Ryan Hickel, CPA, to show how they turn scattered inputs like Social Security, IRA distributions, pensions, and equity sales into one coordinated plan.
We break down their joint workflow: fall reviews that forecast income, model marginal tax rates, and evaluate moves like Roth conversions while there’s still time to act. Elliot explains why “everything a planner does ends up on a tax return,” and Ryan translates that into brackets, credits, and phaseouts clients can actually understand.
You’ll hear why the years around retirement are prime for conversions and gain harvesting, and how early-career professionals can build a strong foundation with the right savings order and tax-aware decisions.
We also cover the bigger picture: delivering a family-office experience without massive wealth, coordinating with specialists when needed, and pushing back on popular myths—like calling permanent life insurance a “Roth on steroids.” The theme is simple: fiduciary collaboration and clean process matter more than buzzwords.
If you want fewer April surprises and more confident decisions, this episode shows what a real advisor–CPA partnership looks like. Subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review with the tax topic you want covered next.
Elliot's Social:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/elliottvhw/
Ryan's Social:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hickel/
Music in this episode was obtained from Bensound
How's it going everyone? Welcome back to the OnlyFe Only podcast. And as always, thanks for being here. This episode is a little bit different. We've got Elliot Vaughn, who is an awesome Fee Only planner that we've known for quite a while, and Ryan Hickel, who is a CPA, who Elliot has worked with, and they really work together to give clients the best experiences possible. And it was really cool to kind of hear the differences between how a CPA's brain thinks versus how Elliot's doing, you know, a lot of the wealth planning and just how they bring all of that together to really give clients a well-rounded, comprehensive experience. So really cool conversation. I think you guys are really gonna enjoy it. So enjoy this episode with Ryan Hickle and Elliot Vaughn.
SPEAKER_01:How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the OnlyFee Only Podcast. I'm Peter Travolo. I'm here with my co-host Brock Buckles, and today we're so excited to have both Elliot Vaughn and Ryan Hickel on. Really excited to have them on the show and have them share their story about how they're building both of their firms and working together to build each other up. So, Ryan and Elliot, welcome to the show, guys. Thanks for having us. Yes, you bet. So both good wet Midwestern guys. So let's start off with Elliot. E is before R in the alphabet. I'll go with Elliot first. Uh so Elliot, give a little bit of background of who you are, who you're currently serving, and then we'll jump to Ryan and we'll jump into the show.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um you know, I'm a longtime uh Midwest suburban guy, so I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, went to a uh Roosevelt University, downtown Chicago, got my degree in mathematics, got my CFP and all that good stuff. Um so it's just one of those things like it's I've been in the industry a little over 10 years now, um, but I'm 32, so I feel like I got a long, long time to go. Um, but I started my firm last year. We're actually approaching our first year anniversary, which is rather exciting. And um, you know, we'll get into kind of the whys and the hows I figure throughout the podcast, but you know, it's been been a wonderful story and humble beginnings, if you will.
SPEAKER_01:Love that. And Ryan, let's jump into you real quick too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so um a bit of a you know unique start. Um come from a restaurant background, so uh restaurant management at Harry Carey's in Chicago, flipped over to full service uh fast food Taco Bell as a GM for Taco Bell Young uh Long John Silvers for a while. Um went to flip bottles of TGI Fridays. 2008 hit and tips dried up. Income was like, you know, a third of what it used to be. Um my dad was looking for a uh, he's also a CPA, retired now, but he was looking for an admin at the time. He said if you're interested in going back to school, get your undergraduate, get your master's, get your license, you know, this whole uh foreseeable future could change. And I made that commitment then, um, got my undergrad, got the master's, got the license, worked for him for about seven, eight years, and then uh two years ago, two and a half years ago, bought the family practice, you know, acquired the firm, made some adjustments, um, you know, implemented new technology, brought out some new clientele, and then started looking for opportunities to collaborate and to see, you know, how how can we better service these clients and what else can we be doing besides just bookkeeping, payroll, tax prep, right? The the come out of these, the run of the mill, anybody can do that kind of stuff. But you know, diving deeper into these client profiles for from a unique perspective, you know, who else can we work with and what else can we do? And then that's where the story starts there.
SPEAKER_02:That's awesome, man. So um when you guys first kind of met each other, so you were just reaching out, was it like randomly? Who called who? Like what was that? What was that all about?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, so this was, I think, about three years ago. Um my firm and what I do, I I do a pretty extensive tax planning throughout the year. So like, you know, we're looking at tax returns. It's kind of a necessity for us that we're looking at the prior year's tax return and then modeling out what we think this next year or the current year's tax situation might look like and kind of what planning opportunities might be available. But the the the you know, I truly believe that everything that I do as a planner ends up on a tax return. So I never liked the idea of being like, hey, we're gonna do all this work, and then you gotta just bring it to your accountant and then you know figure it out.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So what I did was I ended up calling around 20 different accountants in like a five-mile radius of my office. Um, I sat down with probably around 12 of them. And Ryan is not only, you know, he's easy to talk to, he's proactive, um, he runs his practice just like I do. So it just seemed like a pretty it it's operated in such a great, seamless fashion to where you know we can be together in fall reviews with our clients and and just kind of keep knocking out these proactive planning. And um we we we've we've had some surprises like where we get down into uh on April 15th when Ryan's finalizing tax returns. Like we got within a hundred dollars of our estimates, and that's that for us is an awesome feeling to be that close.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, a big win and a good thing to find a cool accountant, like you know, not to pick on you, Ryan, but you feel like there's always I guess I'm not because you're one of the cool guys, right? But I always feel like we talk to a lot of financial planners and they're like, are there any cool accountants out there? I'm like, yeah, dude, there's definitely cool accountants out there, but there's such this like misconception that accountants are these people that just like sit in an office all day and crunch numbers and don't talk to people and all of that stuff. And it's like that couldn't be further from the truth. There's actually people out there that are personable, love the number stuff, and it can actually, you know, fit in well into what's going on with people's plants.
SPEAKER_00:You know, we're a rare breed, but we do exist. Yeah. I like to say, uh, you know, most accountants collect fountain pens, I collect speeding tickets, right? We have a good time on the road. We uh we go out and we do a little surfing, a little snowboarding, have some fun in the on the weekends. And you know, but when it comes down to it, um, you know, the the information, the data that we receive from clients and how it's viewed, and you know, the proactive approach of what Elliott and I can do together. Um it's it's a pretty cool thing. It's a great feeling. And you know, it's uh it it does you know generate dividends for these clients, and you know, not literally, but you know, it pays off uh in tenfold sometimes that you know we we find these opportunities that not everybody sees or we find mistakes that were made from other professionals that you know we can clean up that mess and and bring that value. It's been a it's been a great experience.
SPEAKER_03:And if I could touch if I could touch on that too, just a sec, Rye, as well. Like there's this major demand for it. I mean, there's been studies where 90% of all retirees or pre-retires are looking for this kind of tax planning. And it's not like Ryan and I are reinventing the wheel, it's just uh just paying attention and walking our clients through this stuff, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What's the process and kind of integration look like together, right? Because you guys are still running your own practices, you're not under the same, you know, name or brand. So what's the process and and integration look like together?
SPEAKER_03:Ryan, you want me to kick that off?
SPEAKER_00:Please, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, well, obviously, you know, the the first and foremost is the compliance aspect. So like I cannot do tax prep, I cannot provide tax advice, and Ryan is you know not the financial planner, can't provide investment advice. So we have to make sure that we're reminding our clients of that routinely, especially when we're in joint meetings. But at the same point, like the the process is you know, I I what I see and we what we do regularly is we see like what IRA distributions are looking like, social security estimates, pensions. And so we have a lot of this raw data. And so I think the integration process that Ryan and I utilize, because we because we just did this actually last week, is we'll take all these raw numbers, we'll forecast out what the current year's income is gonna look like, we'll you know, kind of take a look at where we stand from a tax perspective at that point, but then also what planning opportunities exist. And this is kind of where some of the magic, I would say, takes place. But you know, and again, I'll I'll throw out to Rye at that point. And you know, what do you you know, what do you usually see, Ry?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, you know, to piggyback off of that, it's the you know, full disclosure to the clients that we each have our own respective profession and we're providing you know our own guidance in in our in our areas. But you know, also when we're in that collaborative meeting and we're talking to the client, and you know, it's it's delivery of news from the the qualified professional means a lot. They they see that the results are on the screen, that you know, this dip in income is allowing you to make a Roth conversion and we're gonna save X dollars because we're staying in the 22% bracket this year, but then in the foreseeable future, RMDs are coming down. All that information is relayed in a way that the client can understand from you know investment advisor position, you know, the what what you know um uh you know tax-deferred uh income is gonna be generated, and then what that's going to do to the tax return from my mouth. So the you know that that uh collaboration from our respective positions is important to deliver to the clients the right way. Um and that's the process that we hold. This is that uh you know that delivery of news.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I mean when you guys first like met, right? You were kind of doing the uh tour day CPAs, I guess, Elliot, right? Meeting all these guys, seeing who is the right fit.
SPEAKER_03:Um my God, I gotta use that. That is awesome.
SPEAKER_02:You like that? I'm good for him all day. Um, but I, you know, when you were doing that, like what were some of the things you're like, you know, I like where Ryan's coming from. Like we align philosophically on certain things because given that you guys are doing client meetings together, there obviously had to be like the personalities have to mesh. Otherwise, you guys are kind of either stepping on each other's toes or you're like, hey Ryan, are you actually gonna talk during this meeting? Like you um the and then the other thing would be the obvious, like from a planning standpoint and the way that each other operate in your respective spaces, you're gonna have to agree on some things without being complete experts in each other's spaces. So, like, what were kind of the parameters that you guys had to agree on going into that?
SPEAKER_03:I think um, you know, the first thing for me was uh is he just someone who collects W-2s, 1099 says the end of the year? Okay, see you next April. Because that's not exactly that wasn't that one that's not who he is, and that's not what we were looking for. And so I I think you know, to kind of your your second half of your question, like what is it that that makes us click? I I don't know, we just we see the world very similarly, I would say, Rye, unless you disagree. And and in meetings, like I kind of we hint at it. I'm like, hey, if Ryan disagrees with me, he's gotta he's got a kettle prop behind his his chair. I'll just zap me real quick. Luckily, luckily he's never had to use it. Um no, I but I can't but I think it's just we're looking at um what the client's effective tax rate is right now, we we what's their marginal rate, what do we think it's gonna be in the future, what is you know, mapping out RMDs, social security, pension income. So I think it's really been one of those things that it's it's kind of automatically clicked. Uh and I think that that stood out pretty easily, right? When I I met Ryan, is because he's like, hey, I don't just do this thing and see next year. It's what can we do to the balance of the year to make this this client a better position five to 10 years at down the line as well.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, I've always said I like to be a part of the conversation, right? For all my clients, if you have a question, if you want to know, if you're interested in learning, loop me in, ask the question, right? We don't charge for communication. I'm not gonna start and stop the clock for 15 minutes to answer a question about should I buy or lease a car? You know, those proactive concepts can save not only hours of time down the road when we're trying to put docs together in taxis, and but it can help bring that value to the client. And you know, what I found in Elliott and our kind of mutual you know collaboration here, I take my role as fiduciary very seriously, right? Always for the best interest of the client, beyond mine, beyond anybody, anything else, is what's best for that client specifically and their own preferences and positions and cash availability and you know, family growth and estate plan and all those pieces, they they come into this organic view and this this this conversation on a you know client by client, puzzle by puzzle basis. And Elliot's right there with me in that mindset, right? Always trying to find the best position for the clients for their best position beyond what you know maybe we think could be good. It's all about them. And and we find that you know the same position mentally.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So who are you guys looking for? I mean, what's kind of the ideal client, right? Like if they're business owners, like where are they at? Maybe what type of revenue, what industries, if they're families, you know, where are they at in their own personal lives, right? Are they just having children? Are they about to send kids to college? Are the kids already out? Like, where are you guys meeting families and meeting them with your services? Peter, you just named like a thousand life scenarios, man. That was awesome.
SPEAKER_02:Like, dude, I've done this a few times. Drive a car, public transport. I'm like, where this yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Or or they're 90 years old, or like they're two years old, or you know on the first playantel ever that is 100 plus.
SPEAKER_01:I see somebody on LinkedIn who markets themselves as I only work with nice people. I love it. I like it.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, I subscribe heavily to Matthew Jarvis, and he has that as a litmus test. He's like, we have to like you. I would luckily I think that's that's been the case for for all of our mutual clients, right? But I I you know um we teach classes throughout, like both in California and in the Midwest at local junior colleges. And I think the biggest thing that the biggest place that I think we can make a drastic impact is people that are five years before they retire, you know, five years prior, and getting into retirement. Because most oftentimes it's you know, and I'm sure you guys see this regularly, it's the the ideas that have been pushed by you know the generations before us was always defer, defer, defer, defer, defer. You know, whether it's from push your tax bracket and put it all in 401k, don't do any Roth kind of a thing. And now it's it's trying to change that mindset slightly. That is, again, we've seen pay massive dividends over time, as Ryan has mentioned. But I don't know, Ryan, if you think otherwise.
SPEAKER_00:You know, the the biggest tax savings and you know retirement plan changes we've seen are the ones that come to us in that time frame. That's ideal. Find us as you're still working, as you have that plan of, you know, I want to retire in 2030. What do I do now, next year, five years, and what does that look like 20 years from now is our perfect puzzle to play with because we have all that time and the runway ahead to find the dip in income, the conversion option, um, you know, and ask those right questions every year that you know come through. Uh, in addition to that, you know, Elliot and I just had a great uh collaboration with a very young physician, right? She's just starting out in her practice. Um, she's getting married, um, you know, she's considering a family. She's gone from making 50 grand as a fellow to 500 as an attending, right?
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And she's opening up a 401k. She's she's you know talking about how do I accelerate my student loan payments, even though it's after tax, you know, what can I do about that? And what's that going to look like? What's the what what are those early stage pieces that we can move around to facilitate her wishes and then also plan for that long-term roadway, right? The the 40-year plan kind of concept. So those are two ideal clientele that we'd be looking for.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So when you guys go out and you're talking to people, is it like, hey, you know, if you work with me, this is kind of be gonna be the direction. Like, hey, I'm Elliot. If you work with me, we're gonna use Ryan to do this. Because a lot of advisors out there have questions about like, how do I introduce other professionals and people that I'm partnering with? Do I just integrate it as a part of my process? Do I ask permission? Do I be like this as a condition with working with me? So, how do you guys kind of balance that with each other?
SPEAKER_03:I Ryan, if we don't start, or I don't mean to jump in.
SPEAKER_00:I was saying, I usually hold them by the collar and I say, listen. This is the way it's gonna be, all right? This is all or nothing, right? This turns into Macho, man.
SPEAKER_02:Randy Savage is like, listen. Oh yeah. You want to work with me, man? Yeah, or Ryan too, brother. You're gonna feel the pain.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna feel the pain. Oh yeah. Oh my god. Look at this flashback to 1986. I love it. Uh we can edit this out, right? Yeah, good. Okay. Um, we you know, we we always give the recommendation of, you know, we I've seen great things with with Harbor Wealth and Elliott Vaughn, right? If I have a client who is looking for and asking those questions and and I see the opportunity of someone that comes into my practice that either has a poor financial planning uh, you know, um experience or bad advice, or they just don't have anything, that's a really easy sell or easy, easy introduction, right? Um, you know, if we meet somebody together, if we're literally in the same room, well, then it's just an organic introduction, right? Then they meet us both and they see that we work collaboratively, we we have this you know in interworking personality, and we provide you know good high-level professional insight that leads to just us being able to onboard them in our own respective professions and practices, but you know, the easy uh permission to to work, you know, each side of the equation, so to speak.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I I think what we're you know, the feeling that we're trying to get to is that it's it's a family office feel. And we think I think a lot of us think, you know, family office, I have to have a hundred million or whatever, but we're able to do that for uh normal, everyday, hardworking people that that deserve it. And I think that one of the biggest problems that we've been trying to address, and I think successfully so, Ryan, you know, and please touch on this as well, is we we we always hated and still hate uh the idea of a client being like, hey, my financial advisor said this, uh, and then they have to go and be like, hey, my advisor told me X, Y, and Z to their accountant, and they're playing a never-ending game of telephone. The the the the I think the review, so to speak, uh, from our mutual clients is I love the fact that Elliot and Ryan talk behind the scenes to make sure that I'm taken care of. I I'm not stuck in the middle, right? Because that's that's a that's a crap situation to be in, is you know, hey, you should go tell your advisor to do this X amount of conversion. And then the advisor's like, we really shouldn't, because we did this in a in capital gain harvesting or whatever. So um I think I just rambled a little bit, but I I hope that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, not at all. I mean, I I I actually really like the way that you Framed it, man, because like when people get to that kind of family office level, it's really nice to be surrounded by professionals that all kind of do one respected thing, right? And it's not as accessible to people that don't have that level of wealth or aren't worth a hundred million dollars. So it's like, hey, we know what that's like. We know advisors that do that, we know firms that are like that. So to be able to take this approach to people that have just diligently worked hard, save hard, saved well, have these questions, that's a I think that's a fantastic thing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and and that's why, you know, shout out to Thomas Koppelman, how I got introduced to BC Broker is because another part of that equation is obviously still insurance. Sure. You know, and so we're having the same reviews Ryan and I are in. We're talking about like P and C umbrella, da da da. And having you guys again, part of this family office, if you will, ecosystem is it's it it you feel it coming off the client. It's like, oh, I didn't know, you know, I like the fact that they're looking at all this stuff or they have the answers for this stuff. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, that is crucial. I mean, and then as you know, all three of us sit on here respectively with our own firms, right? Um, there's like a lot of professionals who like they want to try to do two out of the three, or they want to try to do three out of the three, right? Like, and it's hard to be, you know, it's master of all, master of none at that point. Um, so I mean, we're all young entrepreneurs here. Um, what's kind of been like your strategy um with starting? I mean, Ryan, I know you've purchased the firm and you've been out building it for two years. Elliot, congrats on about the one year out on your own. Um, what's kind of been some other entrepreneurial tips that you'd love just to kind of get out there? Maybe some tips from mentors that you know really have worked for you that you've seen dividends in your business. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, you know, um I always do the right thing above all, right? And that lets me sleep really well at night. And it it builds the organic client database that gets spread by word of mouth. Uh, I I don't do any advertising, right? We don't do any hard Google listings or anything like that. It's it's all just the deliver the right service at a high level consistently and uh hire the right people, uh, you know, spend the dollars in the right places, and and you know, that pays off the long haul. Um, you know, I have seen and experienced some really poor accounting and CPA firms being run uh, you know, either into the ground or you know, with you know clients leaving uh by the dozens. Um I've been able to learn from those experiences secondhand. Luckily, it hasn't been a firsthand thing, and you know, found out really what not to do and and just avoided that concept. It's really it sounds simple and silly, but you know, just don't do the wrong things, and and a lot of good can happen in that direction.
SPEAKER_02:Go figure, right? Like things that we've kindergarten.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mind blowing, man. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, it it is so true, man. And the the other thing is there's no better person to work with, or there's no better type of referral for a business than one that comes from somebody that you've done a really good job for that wants to recommend you, right? Because it's in like then there's this big circle of trust, and like you know all the people that you're working with, and ironically, a lot of the people that you're not working with know each other and have nothing but great things to say about you. So I I don't think it gets better than that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh well, Elliot, how about you for some golden nuggets?
SPEAKER_03:Um I would say just because you have a Ryan and I were kind of joking about this. We were talking about prep for you know our podcast when we were talking about it on a Friday. But just because you have a designation at the end of your name, it it doesn't carry necessarily as much weight as you think it will. You know, do what you're gonna say, just you know, do what you're saying what you're gonna do, do what you're gonna say. It it really, you know, in this day and age with 1-800 numbers and AI and all these different things, the personal touch just goes away. It just it's it's been decimated. And I think part of the reason why we've been able to run successful practices is because of that personal touch. We are not a 1-800 number. You call us, you're gonna get a live person and a team that you know. Um, and even you know, for Ryan and I specifically, like we work together jointly and a lot of for a lot of mutual clients, but you know, Ryan works with other planners, I work with other accountants because it's just required, you know. If you have a if my client has an accountant that they really like, I'm still gonna be reaching out and be like, hey, I think we could do this, this, and this. And people genuinely appreciate that. Um, and I think that that's just it's it's going away by the wayside, in my opinion. I don't know if you agree, Rye.
SPEAKER_00:I I'm heartbroken. You're working with other accountants. That's just that's devastating to me. No, I'm kidding. Of course.
SPEAKER_02:Breaking news on the only fee only podcast. These two are not mutually exclusive.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, you know, I think it it it speaks volumes. Yeah, it speaks volumes that you know we've chosen to work with each other as you know uh often as we do. Because, yeah, of course, I've got I've got Jones guys, you know, I've got Merrill guys, I've got you know, Morgan Stanley. There is, of course, that list of you know the referral sources and and the you know can communicating professionals, but literally none of them are as proactive and communicative as you know Elliot has been with me, and and I've been with him. And you know, I I think um you know we uh I I probably get more texts and calls from him than I like during tax season because you know put the phone on silent once in a while and hit and ignore occasionally, but it's all for good reason and it's all for the client you know perspective. And um, you know, that uh you know that that's a rare thing to have that we found.
SPEAKER_02:That might be the most honest thing that's ever been said on the on the podcast.
SPEAKER_03:You know, sometimes I ignore but I have a I have a special I have a there's a special voicemail that he programmed on his phone. So like all other numbers go to one voicemail. His whatever it's my phone call goes to another specific voicemail.
SPEAKER_00:I gotta buy additional Google storage for that whole voicemail inbox now.
SPEAKER_02:All right, so before we let you guys go, I think we we could do a fun little exercise here. What is one thing that you have learned from the other one that has been really impactful and kind of just understanding planning and in your own profession? And whoever whoever wants to go first can.
SPEAKER_03:Um Ryan, do you want to go first? I can go first if you want.
SPEAKER_04:Go for it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I would say being able to just I I picked up a lot by watching Ryan talk and interact with people. Again, I think that comes back from his his experience in the restaurant industry, but just being we're talking about serious material, but at the same point, being able to, I think, uh communicate that effectively and and personally. You know, we deal with a lot of again, just uh whether it's dry material, but also serious material. And I think that these are these are hard conversations that not everyone can do. Um, and so I've been able to learn a lot from again just watching him do the same thing and and just kind of bouncing off one another. Love it.
SPEAKER_00:I appreciate that, man. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, you know, uh to the same tune, um, having sound systems set up from the ground up, I've learned from Elliott. He's got you know the onboarding questionnaire, the the know your client concept, and he sticks to it every single time. It's getting the right information, the right way, on a consistent basis that really helps to build that you know client file and database. And um, you know, it answers a lot of questions that you know could have been asked twice or three times, but it's in the system. And sticking to that and being consistent with it, um, you know, I've got some work to do on my own firm because you know I don't I don't touch a candle to his processes.
SPEAKER_03:Love it.
SPEAKER_01:Love it, love it. Um golden nuggets. Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna ask because we were joking about Ryan and I were talking joking about this on Friday as well. And I feel like Brock, I've seen some posts on LinkedIn that you do every now and then about bad advice that's given on social media. And I feel like life insurance is obviously one of those areas. Like, how do you guys combat that, right? I feel like it's gonna be a little nice, nice, nice little plug for BC brokerage in itself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean, Pete, you want to go? I I guess I'll go first and then Pete. Um, you know, I I think the biggest thing is just putting the information out there and calling out the bad practices because the insurance industry gets such a bad reputation for upselling, selling things that people don't need, ridiculous videos on TikTok, insane projections saying something's gonna do 8% every year where we know it's never historically performed like that. And so I think just honestly being frank about it and calling it out, and then you can just watch it unfold in the comments. And that's a beautiful exercise in just seeing what people are about because I posted one last week and all it said was permanent insurance is not a Roth array on steroids. And that's it. And it was like went on to say that. And then you literally see a bunch of guys that come in, it's like, thank you for finally saying that. And then one guy's like, that's right, it's a rich man's Roth. I'm like, you're exactly what like this is exactly what I was talking about. We cannot just be calling these product. Those guys are out there, huh? And so, man, that's that's always been kind of a part of like BC brokerage. Uh, our identity and what we believe is just like getting the stuff out there and just calling it out, and then trying to do our best to give people the most objective and honest advice humanly possible when it comes to insurance. So I would say that's uh that's kind of my take on it.
SPEAKER_01:I love it.
SPEAKER_02:You got anything, Pete? Did I cover it up?
SPEAKER_01:Honestly, the Brock nailed it. I just try to ignore it. Right. I mean, we're so busy with our own clients, and one thing I've learned is like it's a big like educational thing, and it's a big if you don't know, you don't know, and it's a sales culture thing. Um, it's a leadership thing, right? People get they get recruited into the insurance uh industry because they could make a good income, a good living, whatever. People they're not getting into it in the beginning. The pitch is not like, oh, you're gonna protect a bunch of families. That's a cute spiel. Okay, it's very cute.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:People are getting in here because they can build uh an income, they can build a lifestyle. And then when you have products that might not be in the best interest of the client, you go against a fiduciary, you know, duty, whatever you want to call it, right? And people can make big commissions on it, it's Adam Smith's invisible hand at its finest there, right? Um and you add the Kool-Aid in, and people are just drinking it, and that's a way to make income. That might also be the only license that they have. They don't know what they don't know. They don't even know the opportunity cost or what other options are out there. So it's a huge problem. So I'm trying to ignore it, right? I mean, we're so busy doing my own thing. It's such a loaded question. I've sat here at nauseum with so many professionals. Like, how do we solve it? Yeah. And trying to figure it out with politics and everything in between.
SPEAKER_02:You you'd be blown away how motivated grown-ups can be by ribbons and selling more insurance. Like, it's just the craziest thing, man.
SPEAKER_01:Like grown men can even do a one pull-up, but they love whole life.
SPEAKER_02:Like literally walking around a at a conference, like, you see that guy's ribbons? They almost go down and touch his shoes. And everybody's like, man, that guy's awesome. It's like, wait, what are we doing here?
SPEAKER_00:So four-star general of insurance, huh? Love it.
SPEAKER_02:So, but no, that that's that's a good question. But back to you guys, man. I the so much fun having you guys on here. Um, if people want to follow along with what you guys are doing, where's the where's the best place to do that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you can find us at our website, theharborwealth.com. Um, we're on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff. We put out uh weekly content, uh from interviews from our uh quarterly town halls. We talk about the market, we do uh semi-annual uh webinars. So we just did one on cybersecurity. So you know we post all that stuff regularly. It's on our website as well. So if you want to follow along, there's a lot of good free resources there.
SPEAKER_00:And uh I'm at uh Hickle CPA. So last name, CPA. Find me on Google, uh website, hicklecpa.com. Uh phone number, email, all that stuff is there. Again, LinkedIn, um semi-active, but uh more internally. So uh just uh look me up and I'll be available.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome guys, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate your insight. Yeah, appreciate the opportunity. Great talking to you guys, definitely.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks, guys. I'm digging the beard, by the way.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's getting a little chilly down here in Florida.
SPEAKER_03:I'm sure it is.