{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.31,"endTime":1.738,"body":"So they would line up on the horizon,"},{"startTime":1.774,"endTime":3.574,"body":"and they come straight in on the bombers."},{"startTime":3.682,"endTime":5.962,"body":"So it's a game of chicken about 5 seconds."},{"startTime":5.986,"endTime":7.482,"body":"They're going about 5600 miles an"},{"startTime":7.496,"endTime":8.78,"body":"hour right at each other."},{"startTime":11.19,"endTime":13.246,"body":"The combined air might of the United"},{"startTime":13.308,"endTime":15.73,"body":"Nations is loose upon more plants."},{"startTime":20.35,"endTime":22.826,"body":"It is no uncommon thing for more than 10 American"},{"startTime":22.888,"endTime":25.458,"body":"airmen to be flying over enemy territory in one operation."},{"startTime":25.554,"endTime":26.646,"body":"They are making ever deeper"},{"startTime":26.658,"endTime":28.37,"body":"penetration into Hitler's Reich."},{"startTime":44.27,"endTime":46.81,"body":"Welcome to heroes behind headlines."},{"startTime":46.99,"endTime":49.306,"body":"I'm your host, Ralph Pazulo."},{"startTime":49.438,"endTime":52.086,"body":"Please subscribe and check out some of our past"},{"startTime":52.148,"endTime":55.338,"body":"episodes, such as inside the real takedown of El"},{"startTime":55.364,"endTime":60.258,"body":"Chapo and hunting Al Qaeda's biggest financier, as well"},{"startTime":60.284,"endTime":63.26,"body":"as new episodes that are released every week."},{"startTime":63.71,"endTime":66.454,"body":"Our guest today is number one bestselling author"},{"startTime":66.502,"endTime":68.79,"body":"Kevin Mauer, who is here to talk about"},{"startTime":68.84,"endTime":72.73,"body":"his excellent new book, damn one man's courage"},{"startTime":72.79,"endTime":76.7,"body":"during the bloodiest military campaign in aviation history."},{"startTime":77.39,"endTime":81.042,"body":"We're also extremely honored to have the subject of"},{"startTime":81.056,"endTime":84.67,"body":"the book, 100 year old world war II hero"},{"startTime":84.73,"endTime":89.446,"body":"John Lucky Luckadoo as a special guest on December"},{"startTime":89.518,"endTime":93.754,"body":"7, 1941, lucky was a 19 year old freshman"},{"startTime":93.802,"endTime":96.51,"body":"at the university of Chattanooga in Tennessee."},{"startTime":97.07,"endTime":99.078,"body":"As soon as he heard the news about the"},{"startTime":99.104,"endTime":103.114,"body":"Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, he didn't hesitate"},{"startTime":103.162,"endTime":105.286,"body":"to sign up to join the military."},{"startTime":105.478,"endTime":108.99,"body":"Along with 10 million other young American recruits,"},{"startTime":109.61,"endTime":113.058,"body":"lucky wanted to become a pilot since we"},{"startTime":113.084,"endTime":115.374,"body":"had no separate air force at the time."},{"startTime":115.532,"endTime":117.654,"body":"The organization he joined was"},{"startTime":117.692,"endTime":119.43,"body":"called the army air force."},{"startTime":119.99,"endTime":125.874,"body":"What Lucky endured between June 1943 and early 1944"},{"startTime":126.032,"endTime":130.482,"body":"as he launched 25 very dangerous bombing missions over"},{"startTime":130.616,"endTime":134.454,"body":"Nazi occupied France and Germany is the stuff of"},{"startTime":134.492,"endTime":138.178,"body":"legend, especially the mission over Bremen when his plane"},{"startTime":138.214,"endTime":141.406,"body":"was shot to pieces and only six of 18"},{"startTime":141.478,"endTime":143.6,"body":"bombers made it back to base."},{"startTime":144.23,"endTime":147.79,"body":"We're honored to feature best selling author Kevin Mauer"},{"startTime":147.91,"endTime":151.218,"body":"and the great world war II bomber pilot John"},{"startTime":151.304,"endTime":155.66,"body":"Lucky luck Adoo as today's heroes behind the head."},{"startTime":160.29,"endTime":163.62,"body":"The fun thing about Lucky luck ado, right, is that"},{"startTime":164.55,"endTime":166.558,"body":"he's got a force of gunklike quality to him."},{"startTime":166.584,"endTime":168.37,"body":"You almost feel like he's fictional."},{"startTime":168.99,"endTime":172.51,"body":"Grew up in Tennessee, in Chattanooga."},{"startTime":173.19,"endTime":176.254,"body":"Father was a stockbroker who lost everything in the crash and"},{"startTime":176.292,"endTime":178.32,"body":"spent most of the 30s trying to get it back."},{"startTime":180.79,"endTime":181.482,"body":"A gambler."},{"startTime":181.506,"endTime":183.402,"body":"His dad's a gambler, loves the horses."},{"startTime":183.426,"endTime":184.67,"body":"They call him the colonel."},{"startTime":184.99,"endTime":189.074,"body":"But lucky grows up going to a summer camp, seeing"},{"startTime":189.112,"endTime":191.678,"body":"the west point polo players on the horses, and really"},{"startTime":191.704,"endTime":194.21,"body":"gets inspired at that point to join the military."},{"startTime":194.89,"endTime":197.394,"body":"Hatch is a plan with his best friend Sully Sullivan"},{"startTime":197.442,"endTime":200.666,"body":"to go to Canada as the war is starting to"},{"startTime":200.668,"endTime":203.618,"body":"ramp up and join the royal Canadian air force so"},{"startTime":203.644,"endTime":205.766,"body":"that they can get ahead of everybody, learn how to"},{"startTime":205.768,"endTime":207.662,"body":"be fighter pilots, and then when the Americans get in,"},{"startTime":207.676,"endTime":209.2,"body":"they could just transfer over."},{"startTime":209.59,"endTime":212.502,"body":"That gets dashed by his father, who refuses"},{"startTime":212.526,"endTime":214.24,"body":"to sign the papers and let them go."},{"startTime":215.11,"endTime":219.618,"body":"But Lucky, I think it really is a story of solely"},{"startTime":219.654,"endTime":222.122,"body":"and Lucky, which I didn't set out to do, but when"},{"startTime":222.136,"endTime":224.054,"body":"I started writing it, the research led me there."},{"startTime":224.092,"endTime":228.014,"body":"But Lucky becomes sort of an avatar for this"},{"startTime":228.052,"endTime":232.54,"body":"kind of American of the inspired by the air,"},{"startTime":232.99,"endTime":235.79,"body":"inspired by having to get through the Great Depression,"},{"startTime":236.59,"endTime":239.978,"body":"answers the call after Pearl Harbor and kind of"},{"startTime":240.004,"endTime":244.634,"body":"goes with sort of an innocence to them that"},{"startTime":244.672,"endTime":246.762,"body":"quickly gets dashed over the skies of Germany."},{"startTime":246.846,"endTime":249.326,"body":"Yeah, no, the innocence comes through for sure."},{"startTime":249.448,"endTime":250.12,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":253.79,"endTime":257.43,"body":"He joins the it wasn't even an air force back then."},{"startTime":257.48,"endTime":260.994,"body":"Right, let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah."},{"startTime":261.031,"endTime":264.45,"body":"So he joins the Army Air Corps, wants to be a pilot."},{"startTime":265.13,"endTime":266.902,"body":"I think he's inspired by guys like Jimmy"},{"startTime":266.926,"endTime":269.278,"body":"Doolittle and these ideas, these dashing pilots."},{"startTime":269.314,"endTime":270.74,"body":"Lindberg sure."},{"startTime":271.73,"endTime":274.83,"body":"And of course, gets sent to be a bomber pilot"},{"startTime":275.27,"endTime":277.702,"body":"and he joins up with a unit, the Hunters Bomb"},{"startTime":277.726,"endTime":282.394,"body":"Group, who has a pretty checkered history, had a massive"},{"startTime":282.442,"endTime":285.25,"body":"training failure that set him back from deploying."},{"startTime":285.31,"endTime":289.114,"body":"And in doing that, they removed 43 of the copilots"},{"startTime":289.162,"endTime":292.146,"body":"because the copilots were getting as much time in the"},{"startTime":292.148,"endTime":294.826,"body":"cockpit as some of the lead pilots and other squadrons."},{"startTime":294.958,"endTime":296.802,"body":"And so they were like, well, we've got all these"},{"startTime":296.816,"endTime":300.39,"body":"senior pilots, they pull them out, put Lucky's new class."},{"startTime":300.44,"endTime":302.446,"body":"And so Lucky never flies a B 17."},{"startTime":302.518,"endTime":304.734,"body":"Actually, he never flies an aircraft with more than two"},{"startTime":304.772,"endTime":307.89,"body":"engines until he gets to the B 17s in Nebraska."},{"startTime":309.41,"endTime":312.366,"body":"By the end of 1941, the US"},{"startTime":312.428,"endTime":314.78,"body":"demand for new pilots was dire."},{"startTime":315.47,"endTime":318.234,"body":"Recruits were processed so fast that more than"},{"startTime":318.272,"endTime":322.87,"body":"150 pilots and crew died in training accidents,"},{"startTime":323.05,"endTime":324.918,"body":"ten times the number of men who would"},{"startTime":324.944,"endTime":327.03,"body":"perish on the beaches of Normandy."},{"startTime":327.65,"endTime":329.118,"body":"Even though that the man for"},{"startTime":329.144,"endTime":331.618,"body":"pilots was High John Lucky."},{"startTime":331.654,"endTime":334.52,"body":"Luckydoo nearly didn't pass his pilot training."},{"startTime":335.21,"endTime":338.286,"body":"His West Point instructor wanted to fail it,"},{"startTime":338.468,"endTime":341.298,"body":"but a civilian pilot named Blacky lobby to"},{"startTime":341.324,"endTime":344.202,"body":"give Lucky one more chance on the single"},{"startTime":344.276,"endTime":348.99,"body":"engine training aircraft, the VoLTE BT 13 Valiant."},{"startTime":349.49,"endTime":352.738,"body":"Lucky passed and was assigned to copilot a plane he'd"},{"startTime":352.774,"endTime":357.994,"body":"never flown before, the B 17 Flying Fortress, a fourengine"},{"startTime":358.042,"endTime":360.5,"body":"heavy bomber that carried a crew of ten."},{"startTime":361.19,"endTime":363.67,"body":"Before Lucky and his crew set out to England"},{"startTime":363.73,"endTime":366.594,"body":"to join the 100th Bomb Group and the air"},{"startTime":366.632,"endTime":370.018,"body":"war against Nazi Germany, they were briefed by Colonel"},{"startTime":370.054,"endTime":373.818,"body":"Howard Turner, who told them, and I quote, look"},{"startTime":373.844,"endTime":375.86,"body":"at the man on either side of you."},{"startTime":376.19,"endTime":378.74,"body":"Only one of you will be coming back."},{"startTime":379.13,"endTime":381.222,"body":"You're all going to be killed and"},{"startTime":381.236,"endTime":383.18,"body":"you might as well accept it."},{"startTime":384.95,"endTime":387.274,"body":"I think the training numbers give you an indication"},{"startTime":387.322,"endTime":390.634,"body":"of just how dire people treated World War II"},{"startTime":390.802,"endTime":393.09,"body":"and how much risk they were willing to take"},{"startTime":393.2,"endTime":395.842,"body":"to pipeline these guys through to the war effort."},{"startTime":395.986,"endTime":398.574,"body":"And what I think people take away very"},{"startTime":398.612,"endTime":400.786,"body":"quickly is how much these guys were guinea"},{"startTime":400.798,"endTime":403.942,"body":"pigs to prove either that bombing."},{"startTime":403.966,"endTime":406.218,"body":"I'm sure we'll get into what precision bombing looks like,"},{"startTime":406.244,"endTime":408.658,"body":"daylight precision bombing looks like to either prove that theory"},{"startTime":408.754,"endTime":411.222,"body":"or just to get people in the war effort, and"},{"startTime":411.236,"endTime":414.658,"body":"they were willing to take that risk. Incredible."},{"startTime":414.754,"endTime":415.294,"body":"Incredible."},{"startTime":415.342,"endTime":419.394,"body":"So he goes, he deploys to the UK, to"},{"startTime":419.432,"endTime":424.842,"body":"a base in Thorpe Albert, and he's completely green."},{"startTime":424.976,"endTime":425.66,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":426.83,"endTime":430.254,"body":"He's never been overseas, he's never had"},{"startTime":430.292,"endTime":432.45,"body":"much experience with the B 17."},{"startTime":435.39,"endTime":437.58,"body":"He doesn't kind of fit in right away."},{"startTime":437.91,"endTime":439.02,"body":"Is that right?"},{"startTime":439.71,"endTime":441.322,"body":"I think that's one of the"},{"startTime":441.336,"endTime":442.654,"body":"more interesting parts of the book."},{"startTime":442.752,"endTime":445.75,"body":"And that when he gets to the squadron,"},{"startTime":446.07,"endTime":447.73,"body":"when he gets to 100 Bomb Group."},{"startTime":447.9,"endTime":450.182,"body":"A lot of the crews are angry because they've spent"},{"startTime":450.266,"endTime":452.926,"body":"months, years training together and they trust one another."},{"startTime":452.988,"endTime":455.378,"body":"And then you're taking a key member out, you're"},{"startTime":455.414,"endTime":459.41,"body":"taking the second in command out of the crew"},{"startTime":459.47,"endTime":461.002,"body":"and putting this brand new guy in here who"},{"startTime":461.016,"endTime":462.442,"body":"doesn't have anything to do with it."},{"startTime":462.576,"endTime":464.542,"body":"Some of the crews embraced it, knowing that"},{"startTime":464.556,"endTime":467.122,"body":"they need him, need this person, because you"},{"startTime":467.136,"endTime":469.15,"body":"need everybody to do their job, to survive."},{"startTime":469.77,"endTime":471.982,"body":"Lucky's crew decides he's a jinx, and"},{"startTime":471.996,"endTime":473.974,"body":"they take out their frustration with that."},{"startTime":474.012,"endTime":475.178,"body":"Move on Lucky."},{"startTime":475.274,"endTime":478.162,"body":"And I think it paints a very different picture than"},{"startTime":478.176,"endTime":479.606,"body":"we get in a lot of World War II books,"},{"startTime":479.618,"endTime":482.77,"body":"because it shows the humanity of it, it shows fear."},{"startTime":483.75,"endTime":485.738,"body":"We all think of these guys as superheroes"},{"startTime":485.774,"endTime":487.606,"body":"that all signed up and went and everybody"},{"startTime":487.668,"endTime":489.814,"body":"loved one another, but they're all human."},{"startTime":489.912,"endTime":491.602,"body":"No, they didn't love him."},{"startTime":491.736,"endTime":493.198,"body":"They didn't love him at all."},{"startTime":493.284,"endTime":495.346,"body":"But he just sticks it out."},{"startTime":495.528,"endTime":497.23,"body":"And he's also very tall. Right."},{"startTime":497.28,"endTime":499.954,"body":"So he's six two, kind of stands out."},{"startTime":500.052,"endTime":502.462,"body":"And they get this idea, some of them, that"},{"startTime":502.476,"endTime":505.27,"body":"he's arrogant because he's tall and he's quiet."},{"startTime":507.15,"endTime":509.218,"body":"He doesn't come across that way as"},{"startTime":509.244,"endTime":510.406,"body":"you read the book at all."},{"startTime":510.468,"endTime":513.586,"body":"So it was just a perception of these guys."},{"startTime":513.648,"endTime":514.994,"body":"I guess they were so suspicious"},{"startTime":515.042,"endTime":516.9,"body":"if anybody knew who came in."},{"startTime":517.77,"endTime":519.094,"body":"I think it's absolutely that."},{"startTime":519.131,"endTime":521.282,"body":"I also think he's overwhelmed."},{"startTime":521.426,"endTime":523.977,"body":"He's overwhelmed in the training pipeline, and then he's put"},{"startTime":524.124,"endTime":526.382,"body":"in the right seat of this V 17, an aircraft"},{"startTime":526.406,"endTime":528.574,"body":"he's not familiar with, has to learn on the job."},{"startTime":528.732,"endTime":531.886,"body":"I really feel like he was looking for somebody"},{"startTime":531.948,"endTime":533.918,"body":"to help him, someone to give them a helping"},{"startTime":533.954,"endTime":536.35,"body":"hand, and it just didn't come from the screw. Right."},{"startTime":536.52,"endTime":538.51,"body":"So let's talk a little bit about the B"},{"startTime":538.56,"endTime":543.42,"body":"17, because it's kind of a unique aircraft and"},{"startTime":545.89,"endTime":549.34,"body":"one that Lucky was completely unfamiliar with."},{"startTime":553.61,"endTime":558.33,"body":"The B 17 is a whole brand new aircraft for him."},{"startTime":558.38,"endTime":561.562,"body":"He's never been in it when he gets assigned"},{"startTime":561.586,"endTime":564.294,"body":"to it, really has no idea what it's about."},{"startTime":564.452,"endTime":566.79,"body":"The interesting thing about the B 17, though, is"},{"startTime":566.9,"endTime":569.538,"body":"it was built in the mid thirty s, and"},{"startTime":569.564,"endTime":572.754,"body":"by the end of the war, it's obsolete. Yeah."},{"startTime":572.912,"endTime":577.23,"body":"It's an unpressurised four engine heavy bomber that"},{"startTime":577.34,"endTime":581.382,"body":"relies on ten men to operate it. The crew. Yeah."},{"startTime":581.456,"endTime":582.462,"body":"Big crew. Yeah."},{"startTime":582.596,"endTime":583.602,"body":"And you just don't see it."},{"startTime":583.616,"endTime":585.474,"body":"If you think of the B 29, they had"},{"startTime":585.512,"endTime":588.214,"body":"fewer crew, they could carry a much bigger payload"},{"startTime":588.262,"endTime":590.862,"body":"and they could fly faster and higher. Yeah."},{"startTime":591.056,"endTime":595.258,"body":"So almost immediately, the B 17 is obsolete,"},{"startTime":595.294,"endTime":597.342,"body":"and they end up having to add the"},{"startTime":597.356,"endTime":600.39,"body":"chin turret to counter German tactics."},{"startTime":601.67,"endTime":604.314,"body":"But the B 70, as the war"},{"startTime":604.352,"endTime":609.39,"body":"goes on, right to the German fighters."},{"startTime":610.31,"endTime":612.282,"body":"And the incredible thing is this is"},{"startTime":612.296,"endTime":616.762,"body":"an unpressurized plane they're flying, and they're"},{"startTime":616.786,"endTime":620.25,"body":"flying it at, like, 2020, 5000ft."},{"startTime":621.65,"endTime":622.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":622.34,"endTime":623.55,"body":"Unpressurized."},{"startTime":624.89,"endTime":627.574,"body":"So they're operating at negative 40 degrees"},{"startTime":627.742,"endTime":630.69,"body":"on a mission for hours on end. Incredible."},{"startTime":633.57,"endTime":634.51,"body":"I joked with them."},{"startTime":634.56,"endTime":637.342,"body":"There's probably not a more lethal battlefield in"},{"startTime":637.356,"endTime":640.57,"body":"World War II than they were, because obviously"},{"startTime":640.62,"endTime":642.926,"body":"we can't fly, we can't breathe."},{"startTime":643.058,"endTime":645.262,"body":"You touch anything without a gloved hand,"},{"startTime":645.456,"endTime":647.246,"body":"you're going to lose that knuckle."},{"startTime":647.438,"endTime":649.606,"body":"And then you've got flak and the Germans trying to"},{"startTime":649.608,"endTime":656.378,"body":"get you to june 1943, lucky arrived at Thorpe Abbott's"},{"startTime":656.414,"endTime":660.37,"body":"airfield in South Suffolk, England, near the North Sea."},{"startTime":660.93,"endTime":664.166,"body":"The US war strategy at the time was to destroy"},{"startTime":664.238,"endTime":669.442,"body":"Nazi industrial and military targets deep behind enemy lines using"},{"startTime":669.516,"endTime":673.15,"body":"longrange, heavy B 17 and B 24 bombers."},{"startTime":673.59,"endTime":676.558,"body":"Instead of launching these bomb runs at night like the"},{"startTime":676.584,"endTime":680.938,"body":"British did, the US chose precision daylight raids using the"},{"startTime":680.964,"endTime":685.354,"body":"top secret Norden Mark 15 bomb site, which proved not"},{"startTime":685.392,"endTime":688.51,"body":"to be very effective under combat conditions."},{"startTime":689.01,"endTime":691.99,"body":"The strategy of precision daylight bombing put"},{"startTime":692.04,"endTime":695.21,"body":"US pilots and crews at tremendous risk."},{"startTime":695.39,"endTime":698.99,"body":"Adolf Hitler and German air Commander Herman Goering"},{"startTime":699.11,"endTime":702.266,"body":"were convinced that the Americans could never sustain"},{"startTime":702.398,"endTime":705.146,"body":"the heavy losses of air crews and planes"},{"startTime":705.278,"endTime":708.13,"body":"that the German Luftwaff could inflict."},{"startTime":710.07,"endTime":713.16,"body":"Let's go back to the Hundredth Air group."},{"startTime":714.15,"endTime":716.338,"body":"There were four squads, right?"},{"startTime":716.484,"endTime":719.062,"body":"And how many planes and"},{"startTime":719.136,"endTime":721.69,"body":"crewmen in total, approximately?"},{"startTime":722.37,"endTime":725.026,"body":"They talk about in the morning"},{"startTime":725.088,"endTime":726.326,"body":"when they go to eat breakfast."},{"startTime":726.458,"endTime":729.142,"body":"The whole show hall is crowded, and by the"},{"startTime":729.156,"endTime":732.19,"body":"time they come home, it's only a few tables."},{"startTime":733.59,"endTime":736.75,"body":"They're flying in formations of 200,"},{"startTime":736.8,"endTime":739.87,"body":"300 planes from across England."},{"startTime":740.25,"endTime":745.598,"body":"Squadron, I think, puts up 1620 planes."},{"startTime":745.754,"endTime":747.502,"body":"But if you figure every one"},{"startTime":747.516,"endTime":748.822,"body":"of those planes is ten guys."},{"startTime":748.896,"endTime":754.08,"body":"So when you lose 16 planes, it's 160 guys."},{"startTime":755.25,"endTime":759.634,"body":"This is like June, 1943."},{"startTime":759.792,"endTime":762.19,"body":"And also the B 17 has this kind of"},{"startTime":762.24,"endTime":766.274,"body":"unique site for dropping bombs, which is top secret."},{"startTime":766.322,"endTime":768.18,"body":"Can you talk about that a little bit?"},{"startTime":768.51,"endTime":772.38,"body":"A top secret bomb site that was built"},{"startTime":772.71,"endTime":776.422,"body":"to prove the bomber Mafia's theory that you"},{"startTime":776.436,"endTime":778.526,"body":"could bomb your enemy into submission."},{"startTime":778.658,"endTime":781.682,"body":"And the idea behind it was that you could precisely"},{"startTime":781.766,"endTime":785.438,"body":"hit targets that would break the spirit of the civilian"},{"startTime":785.474,"endTime":789.01,"body":"population and then force the army to capitulate."},{"startTime":789.57,"endTime":791.182,"body":"The idea being that we don't want to get"},{"startTime":791.196,"endTime":794.59,"body":"another land war in World War I were entrenched."},{"startTime":796.77,"endTime":799.274,"body":"The problem is that the bomb wasn't very accurate."},{"startTime":799.322,"endTime":802.742,"body":"And when you're dropping at 2020, 5000ft, there's"},{"startTime":802.766,"endTime":805.966,"body":"a lot of variables right in the middle"},{"startTime":806.028,"endTime":810.24,"body":"of flak and fighters and everything else."},{"startTime":811.53,"endTime":815.414,"body":"I think the stat, they were successful"},{"startTime":815.462,"endTime":817.14,"body":"less than 25% of the time."},{"startTime":818.49,"endTime":823.37,"body":"And so they put a lot of parameters,"},{"startTime":823.43,"endTime":825.566,"body":"a lot of security around the northern bomb"},{"startTime":825.578,"endTime":827.174,"body":"site, but it had already been exposed."},{"startTime":827.222,"endTime":829.498,"body":"The Germans already knew it and had their own site."},{"startTime":829.584,"endTime":830.866,"body":"They already rejected it."},{"startTime":830.928,"endTime":833.014,"body":"You write in the book that it was even rigged with"},{"startTime":833.052,"endTime":837.082,"body":"explosives, so if the plane went down the bomb site, it"},{"startTime":837.096,"endTime":839.674,"body":"would blow up so the Germans couldn't recover it."},{"startTime":839.772,"endTime":842.078,"body":"Yeah, but it seems kind of silly."},{"startTime":842.114,"endTime":843.958,"body":"It's not even that good. Right."},{"startTime":844.104,"endTime":845.258,"body":"So why bother?"},{"startTime":845.354,"endTime":850.162,"body":"Yeah, there's a lot of silliness when you break it"},{"startTime":850.176,"endTime":853.186,"body":"down a little bit with some of the security. Yeah."},{"startTime":853.368,"endTime":858.01,"body":"Okay, so let's talk about the odds of survival."},{"startTime":858.63,"endTime":860.914,"body":"I mean, if you get over ten"},{"startTime":860.952,"endTime":862.39,"body":"missions, you're living on borrowed time."},{"startTime":862.44,"endTime":864.6,"body":"You get to eight, you're doing pretty well."},{"startTime":865.35,"endTime":866.966,"body":"If you think about every time you climb"},{"startTime":866.978,"endTime":869.29,"body":"in the cockpit, there are only three outcomes."},{"startTime":870.03,"endTime":872.818,"body":"You fly the mission, you get home, you fly the"},{"startTime":872.844,"endTime":875.522,"body":"mission, you get shot down and captured, or you fly"},{"startTime":875.546,"endTime":877.082,"body":"the mission, you get shot down and killed."},{"startTime":877.166,"endTime":878.038,"body":"So two out of the three"},{"startTime":878.064,"endTime":880.38,"body":"outcomes are pretty grim, pretty bad."},{"startTime":881.19,"endTime":886.44,"body":"And it takes 25 missions to complete your service."},{"startTime":887.31,"endTime":887.674,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":887.712,"endTime":890.53,"body":"Once you hit 25 missions, you're done early."},{"startTime":890.64,"endTime":892.258,"body":"The chances of making it to"},{"startTime":892.284,"endTime":896.234,"body":"25 are pretty slim, very slim."},{"startTime":896.282,"endTime":899.278,"body":"And that's what makes Dai with rushing his"},{"startTime":899.304,"endTime":902.494,"body":"crew through so dangerous, but also kind of"},{"startTime":902.532,"endTime":905.11,"body":"maybe smart, and that he was right."},{"startTime":905.28,"endTime":907.68,"body":"He's playing the odds as best he can."},{"startTime":908.07,"endTime":910.162,"body":"This is the pilot on the"},{"startTime":910.176,"endTime":913.15,"body":"crew that Lucky is the copilot."},{"startTime":913.77,"endTime":916.858,"body":"And as you say, he's just like, trying to play"},{"startTime":916.884,"endTime":920.23,"body":"the odds, trying to pick the missions with the least"},{"startTime":920.28,"endTime":924.034,"body":"danger and get everything over as quickly as possible."},{"startTime":924.192,"endTime":925.63,"body":"And he succeeds."},{"startTime":926.73,"endTime":927.66,"body":"He does."},{"startTime":928.23,"endTime":930.238,"body":"And everybody I talked to and read"},{"startTime":930.264,"endTime":931.73,"body":"about dad was a good pilot."},{"startTime":931.79,"endTime":934.33,"body":"Not a great leader, but a really good pilot."},{"startTime":935.73,"endTime":939.418,"body":"In 1943, a 25 mission tour of"},{"startTime":939.444,"endTime":942.058,"body":"duty was required from every US."},{"startTime":942.144,"endTime":943.51,"body":"Bomber crew member."},{"startTime":944.13,"endTime":947.866,"body":"Statistically, there was only a 25% chance"},{"startTime":947.928,"endTime":950.318,"body":"of someone ever reaching that goal."},{"startTime":950.474,"endTime":952.774,"body":"The average bomber crew was likely to"},{"startTime":952.812,"endTime":955.702,"body":"complete only eight to twelve missions before"},{"startTime":955.776,"endTime":957.746,"body":"being shot down or disabled."},{"startTime":957.878,"endTime":960.286,"body":"June 28, 1943."},{"startTime":960.468,"endTime":963.18,"body":"Lucky Lucky Due was on mission number two."},{"startTime":963.57,"endTime":966.538,"body":"Their objective was to bomb the submarine Pens at"},{"startTime":966.564,"endTime":969.122,"body":"St nazaire, France, on the tip of the Brittany"},{"startTime":969.146,"endTime":972.59,"body":"Peninsula, which extends into the Atlantic Ocean."},{"startTime":972.77,"endTime":975.95,"body":"This would be citizen soldier and amateur pilot"},{"startTime":976.01,"endTime":980.162,"body":"lucky's first time facing the battletested luftwa fighter"},{"startTime":980.186,"endTime":983.698,"body":"pilots and over 100 antiaircraft guns on the"},{"startTime":983.724,"endTime":986.34,"body":"ground guarding the submarine Pen."},{"startTime":986.73,"endTime":989.578,"body":"The group operation officers message before they"},{"startTime":989.604,"endTime":992.438,"body":"took off was the bombers must stick"},{"startTime":992.474,"endTime":994.69,"body":"together in order to survive."},{"startTime":996.51,"endTime":999.034,"body":"If I recall, that's the mission where they"},{"startTime":999.072,"endTime":1001.782,"body":"fly way across England and come around because"},{"startTime":1001.796,"endTime":1003.762,"body":"they're hitting the sub pins that's right."},{"startTime":1003.896,"endTime":1005.158,"body":"On the French coast."},{"startTime":1005.314,"endTime":1008.574,"body":"What's interesting about the sub pins is they"},{"startTime":1008.612,"endTime":1010.314,"body":"must have hit those a couple of times"},{"startTime":1010.472,"endTime":1012.26,"body":"and they never could crack them."},{"startTime":1013.31,"endTime":1015.822,"body":"And they were such an important target because to get"},{"startTime":1015.836,"endTime":1018.682,"body":"across the North Atlantic that those are the subsequent that's"},{"startTime":1018.706,"endTime":1021.654,"body":"out there but they could never really crack it."},{"startTime":1021.692,"endTime":1025.733,"body":"And Lucky gets pretty angry about it having"},{"startTime":1025.771,"endTime":1027.03,"body":"to go back over and over again."},{"startTime":1027.079,"endTime":1031.278,"body":"But on that first mission, it's funny, I asked"},{"startTime":1031.304,"endTime":1033.714,"body":"Lucky one time, who did you talk to before"},{"startTime":1033.752,"endTime":1035.238,"body":"your first mission about what to expect?"},{"startTime":1035.324,"endTime":1037.013,"body":"And he said, who was I going to?"},{"startTime":1037.051,"endTime":1038.599,"body":"There's nobody that knew anything."},{"startTime":1040.25,"endTime":1042.678,"body":"That mission, though, is on top of the"},{"startTime":1042.704,"endTime":1046.674,"body":"fact that the Germans defended that area very"},{"startTime":1046.712,"endTime":1049.93,"body":"well with their flak and fighters."},{"startTime":1050.11,"endTime":1051.606,"body":"The flight was along as long as it"},{"startTime":1051.608,"endTime":1052.978,"body":"was a ten or twelve hour mission."},{"startTime":1053.074,"endTime":1057.618,"body":"And so you're enduring negative 40 degrees as you"},{"startTime":1057.644,"endTime":1060.402,"body":"fly, and then when you finally get to the"},{"startTime":1060.416,"endTime":1062.706,"body":"initial point, I mean, you're cooked at some point."},{"startTime":1062.768,"endTime":1063.354,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1063.512,"endTime":1065.67,"body":"I love that image that you had of them"},{"startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1068.262,"body":"getting close to the target and just seeing all"},{"startTime":1068.276,"endTime":1073.342,"body":"these dots across the horizon, and then it starts"},{"startTime":1073.366,"endTime":1076.698,"body":"to dawn unlucky that these are German fighters and"},{"startTime":1076.724,"endTime":1079.026,"body":"this is what we're going to face. Right."},{"startTime":1079.208,"endTime":1082.57,"body":"And that's got to be, like, incredibly terrifying."},{"startTime":1082.75,"endTime":1085.218,"body":"Well, the Americans get to England and tell the"},{"startTime":1085.244,"endTime":1087.514,"body":"British that we're going to do precision daylight bombing."},{"startTime":1087.562,"endTime":1089.0,"body":"That's what they're going to do."},{"startTime":1089.63,"endTime":1091.35,"body":"And the British think we're insane."},{"startTime":1091.67,"endTime":1093.058,"body":"It's a suicide mission."},{"startTime":1093.094,"endTime":1096.594,"body":"They have the British bombed at night."},{"startTime":1096.752,"endTime":1099.474,"body":"And what the British would do is they would send"},{"startTime":1099.512,"endTime":1102.378,"body":"up an aircraft over the target, drop a flare, and"},{"startTime":1102.404,"endTime":1104.514,"body":"then the bombers would come in at different angles and"},{"startTime":1104.552,"endTime":1107.43,"body":"carpet bomb and saturate that area with bombs."},{"startTime":1107.81,"endTime":1109.914,"body":"The Americans said, now we got the Northern bomb site,"},{"startTime":1109.952,"endTime":1112.062,"body":"we're going to pick the exact location, we're going to"},{"startTime":1112.076,"endTime":1114.334,"body":"fly in a massive formation, and we're going to drop"},{"startTime":1114.382,"endTime":1116.466,"body":"all our bombs on target because we're going to be"},{"startTime":1116.468,"endTime":1120.2,"body":"able to see during the day they did work."},{"startTime":1120.65,"endTime":1123.754,"body":"And what happens is Lucky and his crews"},{"startTime":1123.802,"endTime":1126.774,"body":"become guinea pigs to prove this point, even"},{"startTime":1126.812,"endTime":1129.414,"body":"though everybody begs them to stop and just"},{"startTime":1129.452,"endTime":1131.73,"body":"join the night bombing missions, they won't."},{"startTime":1133.85,"endTime":1136.434,"body":"To be fair, I don't really know why we were"},{"startTime":1136.472,"endTime":1140.118,"body":"such a stickler as Americans to doing this, but we"},{"startTime":1140.144,"endTime":1142.134,"body":"ended up proving that we could do it, but not"},{"startTime":1142.172,"endTime":1145.446,"body":"because we had superior technology and not because it worked,"},{"startTime":1145.568,"endTime":1148.362,"body":"but because we could pump crews out and aircraft better"},{"startTime":1148.376,"endTime":1149.478,"body":"than anybody else in the world. Right."},{"startTime":1149.504,"endTime":1150.898,"body":"It was almost like a meat grinder."},{"startTime":1150.934,"endTime":1152.526,"body":"We're just pushing stuff out."},{"startTime":1152.588,"endTime":1156.09,"body":"Yeah, it's incredible."},{"startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1158.958,"body":"Unless you're the sausage, right."},{"startTime":1159.044,"endTime":1160.114,"body":"Like you're the meat."},{"startTime":1160.222,"endTime":1161.202,"body":"They push it through."},{"startTime":1161.276,"endTime":1162.32,"body":"It's not fun."},{"startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.318,"body":"And at a certain point, as you"},{"startTime":1165.344,"endTime":1168.74,"body":"mentioned, lucky realizes this right away."},{"startTime":1170.27,"endTime":1174.238,"body":"What we're doing, in a sense, is suicidal."},{"startTime":1174.394,"endTime":1175.52,"body":"This is crazy."},{"startTime":1177.11,"endTime":1183.598,"body":"And also, the B 52 had no armor. Really. Right. None."},{"startTime":1183.754,"endTime":1188.446,"body":"And the strategy was to you're just kind of flying"},{"startTime":1188.518,"endTime":1193.09,"body":"into the enemy's flak and into all of their fighters,"},{"startTime":1193.27,"endTime":1196.038,"body":"and the strategy was to just kind of you had"},{"startTime":1196.064,"endTime":1203.802,"body":"to clump together, right, just to defend one another so"},{"startTime":1203.816,"endTime":1206.31,"body":"they could overlap, machine gun, cover."},{"startTime":1206.48,"endTime":1209.41,"body":"The B 17 by itself, was no match for a fighter."},{"startTime":1209.53,"endTime":1210.474,"body":"It would get shot down."},{"startTime":1210.512,"endTime":1213.762,"body":"So the German tactics were to break the formations so"},{"startTime":1213.776,"endTime":1215.874,"body":"that they could pick off the bombers one by one."},{"startTime":1215.912,"endTime":1216.918,"body":"And that's what the flag did."},{"startTime":1216.944,"endTime":1217.854,"body":"The flak did two things."},{"startTime":1217.892,"endTime":1220.458,"body":"It damaged bombers to get them out of the Herd as"},{"startTime":1220.484,"endTime":1223.594,"body":"well as the Germans called them, or it drove the bombers"},{"startTime":1223.642,"endTime":1225.8,"body":"higher up so it was harder to hit things."},{"startTime":1226.61,"endTime":1227.814,"body":"The fighters were there that"},{"startTime":1227.852,"endTime":1229.398,"body":"picks the peeled bombers off."},{"startTime":1229.424,"endTime":1230.322,"body":"So what they would try to do"},{"startTime":1230.336,"endTime":1232.014,"body":"is they would attack head on."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1232.112,"endTime":1234.102,"body":"00 eye comes from."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1234.236,"endTime":1236.562,"body":"So they would line up, like we described, on"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1236.576,"endTime":1238.362,"body":"the horizon and they'd come straight in on the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1238.376,"endTime":1240.858,"body":"bombers, especially the F models, because they didn't have"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1240.884,"endTime":1243.094,"body":"the machine guns in the front and they couldn't"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1243.142,"endTime":1245.85,"body":"lower the top turret low enough to get them."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1246.02,"endTime":1250.062,"body":"So they would come straight head on on the bomber and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1250.076,"endTime":1253.978,"body":"try to attack the cockpit and the wing fuel tanks."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1254.134,"endTime":1256.462,"body":"So it's a game of chicken, about 5 seconds."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1256.486,"endTime":1258.042,"body":"They're going about 5600 miles an"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1258.056,"endTime":1259.34,"body":"hour right at each other."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1260.51,"endTime":1263.262,"body":"What's crazy is, as terrifying as it is for"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1263.276,"endTime":1266.718,"body":"Lucky and the Americans, there's a great quote from"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1266.744,"endTime":1269.538,"body":"this German ace who says, and I'm paraphrasing, but"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1269.564,"endTime":1272.458,"body":"he basically says, when you fly against 20 Russian"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1272.494,"endTime":1276.102,"body":"fighters or ten Spitfires, the British fighter, it's kind"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1276.116,"endTime":1277.258,"body":"of fun and exciting."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1277.414,"endTime":1280.006,"body":"He said, but when you turn in on 40 fortresses,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1280.078,"endTime":1282.2,"body":"all your sins flash in front of your eyes."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1284.15,"endTime":1286.366,"body":"Even the Germans were like, this sucks"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1286.558,"endTime":1290.406,"body":"terrible because they're just getting bombarded with"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1290.588,"endTime":1293.242,"body":"machine gun fire from these fortresses."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1293.326,"endTime":1295.47,"body":"And they had how many machine gunners?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1297.906,"body":"No, they had six."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1298.028,"endTime":1301.234,"body":"They had a tail gunner, two waist gunners"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1301.342,"endTime":1303.354,"body":"who were right behind the tail in the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1303.392,"endTime":1305.326,"body":"long, slender part of the aircraft."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1305.398,"endTime":1307.618,"body":"And then they had a ball Turk gunner,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1307.654,"endTime":1309.918,"body":"who's usually the smallest guy, and he would"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1309.944,"endTime":1312.55,"body":"sit in that metal ball underneath the plane."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1312.73,"endTime":1316.782,"body":"And then you had the engineer in the double to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1316.796,"endTime":1319.63,"body":"the two machine guns on the top, the top turret."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1319.75,"endTime":1321.994,"body":"And then in the nose you had two cheek"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1322.042,"endTime":1325.978,"body":"guns, which were the navigator and the bombing deer"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1326.014,"endTime":1329.182,"body":"used until they had to do their job. Yeah. Incredible."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1329.266,"endTime":1332.25,"body":"And those guys had to have some Cojones, right?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1332.3,"endTime":1333.618,"body":"Because they're sitting there in a little"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1333.644,"endTime":1337.474,"body":"glass bubble and there's all these planes,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1337.522,"endTime":1339.666,"body":"like, flying around them, coming at them."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1339.788,"endTime":1340.77,"body":"Incredible."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1341.27,"endTime":1342.822,"body":"And that's not even the Flak yet."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1342.896,"endTime":1344.66,"body":"It's just the fighters. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1345.59,"endTime":1347.278,"body":"Let's talk about the flak."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1347.434,"endTime":1349.102,"body":"So when you go over these targets,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1349.126,"endTime":1351.45,"body":"when you get close, then you'd start"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1351.5,"endTime":1354.27,"body":"getting the bombardment from the ground."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1355.97,"endTime":1358.758,"body":"Hitler loved air defense and they threw a"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1358.784,"endTime":1360.33,"body":"lot of money and effort into it."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1360.38,"endTime":1363.778,"body":"And essentially what they would do is their intelligence"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1363.814,"endTime":1365.442,"body":"was very good, so they knew the path the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1365.456,"endTime":1366.918,"body":"bombers were going most of the time."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1367.004,"endTime":1368.238,"body":"And what they would do is they would"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1368.264,"endTime":1371.142,"body":"pick a box, an imaginary box in the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1371.156,"endTime":1373.51,"body":"air, and they would fill it with flak."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1373.57,"endTime":1374.922,"body":"And essentially what the flag was there"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1374.936,"endTime":1376.722,"body":"were shells that would explode at a"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1376.736,"endTime":1379.47,"body":"certain altitude and throw shrapnel everywhere."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1379.79,"endTime":1383.406,"body":"Guys describe it as it sounded like hail bouncing off."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1383.588,"endTime":1385.002,"body":"And most of it wasn't bouncing off"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1385.016,"endTime":1386.094,"body":"because it was cutting right through. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1386.132,"endTime":1387.898,"body":"Because there's no protection, there's no armor."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1387.934,"endTime":1389.814,"body":"So it's coming the skin of a B 17 is"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1389.852,"endTime":1392.3,"body":"probably about the same thickness as a tin can."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1393.17,"endTime":1398.97,"body":"So it's cutting through this on the ground."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1399.59,"endTime":1401.922,"body":"They would aim it using radar and then they"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1401.936,"endTime":1405.694,"body":"would have Hitler Youth or older soldiers that couldn't"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1405.742,"endTime":1407.614,"body":"serve on the front just load the guns."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1407.722,"endTime":1409.318,"body":"And they would shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1409.354,"endTime":1411.858,"body":"And the Americans figured out at first they"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1411.884,"endTime":1413.746,"body":"would try to dodge through the flag."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1413.878,"endTime":1416.698,"body":"And then Curtis Lameay did some math and realized"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1416.734,"endTime":1418.338,"body":"that in order for a B 17 to get"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1418.364,"endTime":1421.29,"body":"knocked out, it would take a lot of hits."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1421.67,"endTime":1424.674,"body":"So he says, we're flying straight through."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1424.712,"endTime":1427.086,"body":"So it was like flying through a thunderstorm. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1427.208,"endTime":1427.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1427.58,"endTime":1431.48,"body":"It's something like 130 hits before it could go down."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1432.35,"endTime":1436.89,"body":"But if it's in the right place, it doesn't take 130."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1437.06,"endTime":1440.246,"body":"It's incredible."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1440.318,"endTime":1442.978,"body":"And then a very interesting point."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1443.064,"endTime":1444.746,"body":"So lucky is a copilot."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1444.818,"endTime":1446.522,"body":"There's a pilot and a copilot."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1446.606,"endTime":1448.318,"body":"And then there's a certain point when they get"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1448.344,"endTime":1451.334,"body":"over the target where the pilot and the copilot"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1451.502,"endTime":1454.75,"body":"turn the plane over to the bombadier. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1454.8,"endTime":1456.72,"body":"And then they're just kind of sitting there"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1457.05,"endTime":1459.946,"body":"praying that they get through this while the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1460.008,"endTime":1462.494,"body":"bombadier kind of lines up the targets."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1462.542,"endTime":1463.642,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1463.716,"endTime":1465.718,"body":"So when they get to the initial point, they"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1465.744,"endTime":1468.37,"body":"call it that's when everybody turns in the same"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1468.42,"endTime":1471.11,"body":"heading and everybody flies straight through the flag."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1471.17,"endTime":1473.302,"body":"And the northern bomb site is actually flying the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1473.316,"endTime":1475.906,"body":"plane through the autopilot, which is the worst thing."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1475.968,"endTime":1477.358,"body":"Lucky hated that part."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1477.384,"endTime":1479.018,"body":"And he talks about it, how it's"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1479.054,"endTime":1480.782,"body":"hard to not fly the plane."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1480.806,"endTime":1481.774,"body":"And remember, they're in"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1481.812,"endTime":1483.67,"body":"tightly packed formations, too."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1483.84,"endTime":1486.038,"body":"So his job was to make sure they didn't crash"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1486.074,"endTime":1489.494,"body":"into somebody as all the planes fly through this flack."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1489.542,"endTime":1490.462,"body":"And then as soon as they"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1490.476,"endTime":1492.67,"body":"hit the target, then they separate."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1493.83,"endTime":1496.138,"body":"They come back together and get home. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1496.224,"endTime":1497.71,"body":"And then once they were over"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1497.82,"endTime":1500.41,"body":"the channel, they were safe. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1500.58,"endTime":1501.442,"body":"As long as you were on"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1501.456,"endTime":1504.094,"body":"the probably 51% across the channel."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1504.192,"endTime":1506.122,"body":"Because if you crash in the channel, it was sort"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1506.136,"endTime":1508.474,"body":"of a race to see who would get to you. That's right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1508.572,"endTime":1510.25,"body":"Because the Germans would be there."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1510.3,"endTime":1511.706,"body":"And you'd hope to get picked"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1511.718,"endTime":1514.334,"body":"up by a friendly fishing boat."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1514.442,"endTime":1516.518,"body":"Because if you picked up by a French fishing"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1516.554,"endTime":1519.442,"body":"boat, you'd probably end up in a POW camp."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1519.516,"endTime":1521.266,"body":"Right, right. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1521.328,"endTime":1523.462,"body":"And that happened quite a few times."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1523.596,"endTime":1524.64,"body":"Yeah, a lot."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1526.83,"endTime":1529.63,"body":"The guys that would bail out, especially over Germany,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1530.37,"endTime":1532.994,"body":"would run to soldiers and hope they get caught"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1533.102,"endTime":1537.898,"body":"by a Luftwaffe because the civilians would kill you."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1537.984,"endTime":1541.394,"body":"The German civilians, but not the French."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1541.502,"endTime":1542.94,"body":"Not the French, yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1543.33,"endTime":1545.578,"body":"But we also when we were"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1545.604,"endTime":1547.598,"body":"bombing France and other Allied countries."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1547.694,"endTime":1549.49,"body":"It was different in Germany."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1550.05,"endTime":1554.078,"body":"Bombing took such a toll on the German civilians."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1554.174,"endTime":1555.094,"body":"It was a terror camp."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1555.132,"endTime":1556.166,"body":"It was horrendous."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1556.298,"endTime":1558.454,"body":"So to be on the other end of it and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1558.492,"endTime":1561.718,"body":"to then see the pilot on the ground, you could"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1561.744,"endTime":1567.422,"body":"kind of understand it, but it's understandable, right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1567.496,"endTime":1570.63,"body":"All right, so now let's talk about the big mission."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1570.69,"endTime":1574.922,"body":"Well, first there's Castle, I think it was number"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1574.996,"endTime":1581.79,"body":"eleven, and Lucky almost gets frozen to death."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1582.53,"endTime":1584.158,"body":"Nearly frozen to death."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1584.254,"endTime":1587.478,"body":"It's funny, he still moves his feet, apparently in his"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1587.504,"endTime":1592.102,"body":"sleep, because of essentially what happens is, during the mission,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1592.186,"endTime":1594.858,"body":"the front nose of the aircraft is cracked, and it"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1594.884,"endTime":1597.954,"body":"sends a jet stream of frigid air straight into his"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1597.992,"endTime":1601.062,"body":"shoes and boots, and he just can't there's no way"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1601.076,"endTime":1603.514,"body":"to keep his feet warm, and he gets frostbite."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1603.682,"endTime":1607.086,"body":"He's got to keep his feet on the he's got pedals right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1607.268,"endTime":1609.102,"body":"For some of the controls. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1609.176,"endTime":1610.786,"body":"For the back rudder, he's got to keep his feet"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1610.798,"endTime":1612.762,"body":"on the pedals, and he ends up getting frostbite that"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1612.776,"endTime":1614.67,"body":"they have to carry them out of there."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1614.84,"endTime":1617.394,"body":"The best part of that story, though, is when he gets"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1617.432,"endTime":1621.25,"body":"to the aid station and they slowly rehab his injury."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1621.31,"endTime":1623.302,"body":"He's in there with the ball turret gunner,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1623.386,"endTime":1626.118,"body":"who got frostbite because he pissed himself, and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1626.144,"endTime":1627.558,"body":"they give him the Purple Heart."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1627.644,"endTime":1628.722,"body":"And like he says, I don't think"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1628.736,"endTime":1629.818,"body":"I deserve it from my feet."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1629.854,"endTime":1631.662,"body":"And the Baltimore gunners, I don't want it either."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1631.736,"endTime":1633.102,"body":"And they say, well, why don't you want it?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1633.116,"endTime":1633.786,"body":"And he says, Because I don't want"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1633.788,"endTime":1635.24,"body":"to explain how I got it."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1637.43,"endTime":1640.434,"body":"But that injury means that his"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1640.472,"endTime":1642.354,"body":"original crew gets ahead of him."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1642.512,"endTime":1646.29,"body":"He loses two missions out of that, and he loses another"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1646.34,"endTime":1648.882,"body":"mission because he refuses to fly in the back seat as"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1648.896,"endTime":1652.27,"body":"a spotter because he's not trained the on tailgun."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1652.45,"endTime":1655.47,"body":"And so that's why his main crew, after they complete"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1655.52,"endTime":1658.218,"body":"their 25 missions, he still has three more to go"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1658.244,"endTime":1661.398,"body":"before yeah, I think he spent what he said, you"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1661.424,"endTime":1664.026,"body":"wrote eight days in the hospital for that one."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1664.148,"endTime":1666.954,"body":"Okay, so let's get to the Bremen mission, because that,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1666.992,"endTime":1670.76,"body":"to me, is the most dramatic story in the book"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1671.09,"endTime":1674.634,"body":"and horrible and exciting at the same time."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1674.792,"endTime":1678.042,"body":"So it opens the book, and it sort"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1678.056,"endTime":1681.162,"body":"of serves as the spine of the book."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1681.356,"endTime":1683.9,"body":"And essentially that's a mission where he"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1684.41,"endTime":1686.05,"body":"gets tasked to be the lead pilot."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1686.11,"endTime":1688.518,"body":"He's flying with a fairly new crew, guys"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1688.544,"endTime":1691.338,"body":"he's never met before, and they're flying pretty"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1691.364,"endTime":1693.68,"body":"deep into Germany to bomb a sub pen."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1694.61,"endTime":1699.082,"body":"And I don't want to say he had"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1699.096,"endTime":1702.242,"body":"a bad feeling, but this one felt heavy."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1702.266,"endTime":1704.038,"body":"And it was the beginning of Black Week, where"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1704.064,"endTime":1707.878,"body":"they were really pushing the bomber squadrons to pick"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1707.904,"endTime":1710.23,"body":"up the pace and really lay it on them."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1710.4,"endTime":1713.798,"body":"And so he takes off, and he's leading"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1713.834,"endTime":1716.59,"body":"the Low Squadron, which is probably the ugly,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1717.03,"endTime":1720.12,"body":"probably the worst place to be most vulnerable. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1722.25,"endTime":1726.838,"body":"The mission itself is notable, too, because when"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1726.864,"endTime":1728.458,"body":"they get to the fighters and they fight"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1728.484,"endTime":1730.714,"body":"through the fighters, usually the fighters would leave"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1730.812,"endTime":1732.778,"body":"them when they started to get into the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1732.804,"endTime":1736.15,"body":"flak and then come back after they bombed."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1736.47,"endTime":1741.074,"body":"This time, though, the Germans had ordered the fighters"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1741.122,"endTime":1744.118,"body":"to stiffen the resistance, and so they fly through"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1744.144,"endTime":1748.066,"body":"the flag to continue to press the attack, which"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1748.128,"endTime":1750.134,"body":"baffled the pilots and scared them to death."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1750.182,"endTime":1753.06,"body":"Flying through their own flack, basically, yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1753.93,"endTime":1755.398,"body":"And then don't forget. Too."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1755.484,"endTime":1756.754,"body":"There's a part of that mission. Too."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1756.792,"endTime":1760.526,"body":"Where you have a collision between one of the metricsmiths"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1760.538,"endTime":1762.002,"body":"who takes out the plane in front of Lucky."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1762.026,"endTime":1763.462,"body":"Which almost takes him out of the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1763.476,"endTime":1767.342,"body":"formation so that's just before they bomb."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1767.426,"endTime":1768.658,"body":"And then when they actually get"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1768.684,"endTime":1770.35,"body":"out of the after the bombing."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1771.09,"endTime":1773.554,"body":"His aircraft is so shot up that"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1773.592,"endTime":1774.922,"body":"he has to nurse it back."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1774.996,"endTime":1778.918,"body":"And luckily, he finds another squadron attached to because going"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1778.944,"endTime":1782.614,"body":"back to that idea, that if these guys by themselves"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1782.712,"endTime":1789.818,"body":"are pretty vulnerable, so what's left of his squadron connects"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1789.974,"endTime":1792.482,"body":"to the follow on units coming behind him, and he's"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1792.506,"endTime":1794.16,"body":"able to get back to England that way."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1795.63,"endTime":1798.274,"body":"The biggest mission Lucky participated in was"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1798.312,"endTime":1800.602,"body":"the bombing of the submarine pens outside"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1800.676,"endTime":1804.06,"body":"the city of Bremen in October 1943."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1804.63,"endTime":1809.35,"body":"The plan required for the bombers to fly at 26,000ft, which"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1809.4,"endTime":1812.602,"body":"meant that they would be on oxygen for 4 hours of"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1812.616,"endTime":1816.698,"body":"the five and a half hour flight approaching Bremen, the Beef"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1816.734,"endTime":1821.03,"body":"17 formation Lucky was in was hit by wave after wave"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1821.09,"endTime":1824.71,"body":"of highly skilled and motivated German fighters."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1825.33,"endTime":1828.034,"body":"One fighter rammed the B 17 in front"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1828.072,"endTime":1831.146,"body":"of Luckies, turning it into a fireball."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1831.338,"endTime":1834.314,"body":"Within minutes, the cobalt sky over Bremen"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1834.362,"endTime":1837.13,"body":"turned black with flak from the ground."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1837.87,"endTime":1839.978,"body":"By the time Lucky and his crew dropped"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1840.014,"endTime":1842.998,"body":"their bombs, german ground gunners and fighters had"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1843.024,"endTime":1845.59,"body":"shot down two thirds of the US. Bombers."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1846.33,"endTime":1850.99,"body":"Of the 18 planes in Lucky's group, only six remained."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1851.43,"endTime":1854.738,"body":"Turning back towards Holland in safety, lucky"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1854.774,"endTime":1856.726,"body":"saw smoke pouring out of his engine."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1856.788,"endTime":1860.386,"body":"Number three, his plane was losing power."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1860.568,"endTime":1862.682,"body":"He knew that if they fell out of formation,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1862.766,"endTime":1865.502,"body":"they would be a sitting duck for German fighters"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1865.646,"endTime":1869.59,"body":"and would end up as corpses or POWs."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1870.27,"endTime":1873.278,"body":"His plane shot to pieces, lucky somehow"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1873.314,"endTime":1875.22,"body":"managed to fly it back to base."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1875.91,"endTime":1879.85,"body":"In total, 50 pilots and crew members were lost."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1880.23,"endTime":1882.562,"body":"Now Lucky himself is going to tell us"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1882.636,"endTime":1885.25,"body":"his version of the mission over Brown."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1887.13,"endTime":1890.246,"body":"That was my 22nd mission."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1890.378,"endTime":1892.774,"body":"I flew with the crew that I went over"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1892.812,"endTime":1899.82,"body":"with originally through 21 missions, and they completed 25,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1900.51,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"and so they were rotated back to the States."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1903.93,"endTime":1909.874,"body":"And I was flying on this first mission afterwards with"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1909.912,"endTime":1915.098,"body":"a brand new crew as a command pilot, which meant"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1915.134,"endTime":1919.102,"body":"that the airplane commander, of course, was in charge of"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1919.116,"endTime":1921.67,"body":"the crew, but I was in charge of the formation."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1922.35,"endTime":1927.754,"body":"And directly in front of me was the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1927.792,"endTime":1931.81,"body":"operations officer for the squadron and another."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1931.92,"endTime":1938.09,"body":"Buddy who was on his 24th mission, and they were rammed"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1938.21,"endTime":1943.26,"body":"by F 190 on the bomb run and blew up."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1943.71,"endTime":1949.03,"body":"And I immediately assumed that nobody survived."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1949.47,"endTime":1951.458,"body":"And so when I got back, that's"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1951.494,"endTime":1954.49,"body":"what I reported in the debriefing."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1954.93,"endTime":1958.198,"body":"And I was still a second lieutenant, as"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1958.224,"endTime":1960.78,"body":"I was when I graduated from flying school."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1961.71,"endTime":1964.654,"body":"And the commanding officer of the squadron met"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1964.692,"endTime":1967.13,"body":"me, and he said, well, where's Barton?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1967.25,"endTime":1970.874,"body":"Barton was the operations officer."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1970.922,"endTime":1972.098,"body":"And I said, well, he blew"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1972.134,"endTime":1974.35,"body":"up and they're not coming back."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1974.52,"endTime":1976.478,"body":"And he said, all right, then, I'm"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1976.514,"endTime":1980.11,"body":"making you the squadron operations officer."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1980.61,"endTime":1984.946,"body":"So this has been a horrible mission, one in which"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1985.008,"endTime":1988.846,"body":"I really doubt it for the first time that I"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1988.848,"endTime":1993.034,"body":"was going to make it home, because we had such"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1993.192,"endTime":1998.974,"body":"ferocious opposition that we had not encountered previously, and the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":1999.012,"endTime":2003.654,"body":"Germans were just pressing their attacks so aggressively that our"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2003.692,"endTime":2007.82,"body":"chances of survival were just zero."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2008.15,"endTime":2011.514,"body":"And out of the 18 airplanes we sent out on that"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2011.552,"endTime":2015.92,"body":"mission, twelve of them were shot down on the bomb run."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2017.15,"endTime":2020.42,"body":"And I brought back the remnants of that"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2021.59,"endTime":2026.514,"body":"group, which was six airplanes tacked on to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2026.552,"endTime":2029.826,"body":"a succeeding wave of bombers behind us."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2030.008,"endTime":2032.406,"body":"And that's the only way we got back, was"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2032.468,"endTime":2035.934,"body":"to because if you're shot out of formation and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2035.972,"endTime":2039.69,"body":"you're flying separately, you're a doom dock."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2040.37,"endTime":2042.33,"body":"They can pick you off at leisure."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2043.19,"endTime":2045.678,"body":"And you almost didn't make it because"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2045.824,"endTime":2050.3,"body":"your own plane was so badly damaged. Correct. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2050.63,"endTime":2051.989,"body":"Did you lose an engine?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2052.1,"endTime":2053.454,"body":"I think you lost an engine. I did."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2053.492,"endTime":2058.326,"body":"I lost an engine over the target and was having"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2058.388,"endTime":2061.77,"body":"difficulty keeping up with the formation that we joined."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2062.81,"endTime":2068.78,"body":"So that was another difficulty we had to contend with."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2069.23,"endTime":2073.254,"body":"But by staying with another formation, we were"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2073.292,"endTime":2078.454,"body":"able to garner some mutual protection, and that's"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2078.562,"endTime":2081.02,"body":"the only thing that saved us. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2081.469,"endTime":2085.906,"body":"And the other thing that I was very surprised"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2085.978,"endTime":2088.362,"body":"to learn about the B 17 was that it"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2088.376,"endTime":2092.154,"body":"was not a pressurized cabin and it had almost"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2092.252,"endTime":2097.22,"body":"no armor and there was no insulation, basically."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2097.67,"endTime":2098.466,"body":"Correct."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2098.648,"endTime":2103.158,"body":"So you would go up how high would"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2103.184,"endTime":2106.35,"body":"your altitude be at some point about 5"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2106.4,"endTime":2111.39,"body":"miles above the Earth, 25 to 29,000ft."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2112.19,"endTime":2117.15,"body":"And that's such an alien atmosphere because the air"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2117.2,"endTime":2121.774,"body":"is so light and it is so bitterly cold."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2121.942,"endTime":2124.818,"body":"50 to 60 deg below zero."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2124.964,"endTime":2126.058,"body":"Unbelievable."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2126.214,"endTime":2130.198,"body":"And we had everything we could put on and heated"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2130.354,"endTime":2134.35,"body":"underwear and that sort of thing, to try and withstand"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2134.41,"endTime":2140.806,"body":"the hours of cold and numbing effects of that cold."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2140.998,"endTime":2145.46,"body":"And it severely impacted our ability to function. Sure."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2146.27,"endTime":2149.458,"body":"So we were really guinea pigs."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2149.554,"endTime":2152.214,"body":"We were just simply trying to prove a"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2152.252,"endTime":2155.578,"body":"strategy, or they were using as a proof"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2155.614,"endTime":2161.67,"body":"of strategy that the British insisted was suicidal"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2162.35,"endTime":2165.99,"body":"and that we should abandon daylight bombing altogether"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2166.55,"endTime":2170.574,"body":"because the Germans had air superiority and they"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2170.612,"endTime":2174.634,"body":"controlled and they were fighting for their homeland."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2174.802,"endTime":2177.774,"body":"Their backs were against the wall. Sure."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2177.932,"endTime":2179.854,"body":"We're going to throw everything in the backyard."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2179.962,"endTime":2181.21,"body":"So they were professionals."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2181.27,"endTime":2184.122,"body":"They've been fighting for four years, and we"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2184.136,"endTime":2185.742,"body":"didn't have a clue as to what we"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2185.756,"endTime":2189.33,"body":"were going to meet when we became combatants."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2190.01,"endTime":2191.802,"body":"But they knew what they were doing"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2191.876,"endTime":2195.32,"body":"and they did it very effectively. Yes."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2195.89,"endTime":2198.838,"body":"And as you said, the American commanders"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2198.934,"endTime":2201.858,"body":"adopted a strategy that was different than"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2201.884,"endTime":2204.246,"body":"the British, and they stuck with it."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2204.368,"endTime":2206.91,"body":"They did, and the British stuck with theirs."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2207.59,"endTime":2210.582,"body":"They had tried daylight bombing and the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2210.596,"endTime":2212.55,"body":"Germans had cut them to ribbons."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2212.87,"endTime":2216.358,"body":"And that's why they concluded that it was suicidal"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2216.454,"endTime":2219.09,"body":"and that the only way that they could really"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2219.14,"endTime":2223.254,"body":"bring Germany to its knees, by bombing it and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2223.292,"endTime":2227.9,"body":"its industrial targets, was by going out at night."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2228.59,"endTime":2230.662,"body":"They flew at a lower altitude."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2230.746,"endTime":2232.95,"body":"They had different equipment altogether."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2233.27,"endTime":2236.106,"body":"They did not fly in formation, of course."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2236.288,"endTime":2238.11,"body":"They flew in single ships."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2238.73,"endTime":2244.386,"body":"And interestingly enough, their bombing accuracy was"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2244.568,"endTime":2247.29,"body":"still about the same as ours."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2248.03,"endTime":2253.398,"body":"Although they bombed on a flare, they would send out"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2253.424,"endTime":2257.326,"body":"a pathfinder ahead of the group and drop a flare"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2257.398,"endTime":2260.046,"body":"on the target, and then they would bomb at different"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2260.108,"endTime":2264.366,"body":"altitudes and directions on that flare, whereas we were going"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2264.428,"endTime":2268.254,"body":"out in broad daylight and mass formation and trying to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2268.292,"endTime":2273.826,"body":"prove that we could withstand the onslaught of German defenses,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2273.958,"endTime":2275.97,"body":"both fighter and flak."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2277.67,"endTime":2279.474,"body":"The mission to Bremen was the start"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2279.512,"endTime":2281.802,"body":"of what became known as Black Week."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2281.996,"endTime":2284.566,"body":"As the 100th bomb group hit one target"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2284.638,"endTime":2288.538,"body":"after another in Germany, lucky figured his chances"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2288.574,"endTime":2291.56,"body":"of completing all 25 missions was zero."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2292.31,"endTime":2295.77,"body":"He watched as 88 B 17s were shot down"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2295.82,"endTime":2300.046,"body":"in three days and nearly 900 men were killed."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2300.238,"endTime":2303.162,"body":"By November, he had only two missions left."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2303.356,"endTime":2306.558,"body":"Then his bomb squadron commander ordered Lucky to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2306.584,"endTime":2309.198,"body":"replace him and lead a squadron on a"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2309.224,"endTime":2312.09,"body":"bombing mission to the Nazi capital of Berlin."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2312.47,"endTime":2315.114,"body":"General Curtis Lamay told the pilots, and I"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2315.152,"endTime":2318.054,"body":"quote, if we get only one plane over"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2318.092,"endTime":2320.36,"body":"the target, it will be a success."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2320.75,"endTime":2324.79,"body":"It was a suicide mission, and Lucky was pissed."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2324.97,"endTime":2327.618,"body":"As they approached the enemy coast, he heard"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2327.644,"endTime":2330.402,"body":"the radio operator come over the inner phone."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2330.596,"endTime":2333.622,"body":"His message was abort. Abort."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2333.766,"endTime":2335.0,"body":"Return to base."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2335.87,"endTime":2338.958,"body":"The skies over Berlin, which they expected to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2338.984,"endTime":2341.72,"body":"be covered with thick clouds, were clear."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2343.49,"endTime":2345.726,"body":"I was not happy about that at all."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2345.788,"endTime":2349.014,"body":"In fact, I refused to serve under him any"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2349.052,"endTime":2353.302,"body":"longer because it was his job, but he assigned"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2353.326,"endTime":2357.126,"body":"it to me and I thought that was cowardly. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2357.308,"endTime":2359.338,"body":"So he should have flown the plane."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2359.434,"endTime":2364.554,"body":"He should have been the command pilot of that person."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2364.712,"endTime":2365.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2365.6,"endTime":2368.314,"body":"But fortunately, as we got to the Anime"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2368.362,"endTime":2372.498,"body":"coast, the clouds dissipated over the target and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2372.524,"endTime":2374.722,"body":"we didn't have the element of surprise."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2374.866,"endTime":2377.526,"body":"And so it was scrubbed. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2377.648,"endTime":2380.382,"body":"And we came back, and that's the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2380.396,"endTime":2382.34,"body":"only way I survived that way."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2384.23,"endTime":2385.266,"body":"It truly was."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2385.328,"endTime":2386.682,"body":"Because I'm sure that none of"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2386.696,"endTime":2389.598,"body":"us would have returned that mission. Of course not."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2389.684,"endTime":2390.594,"body":"Probably not."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2390.692,"endTime":2392.83,"body":"That was a complete suicide mission."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2392.95,"endTime":2395.562,"body":"And we should explain to the listeners that it"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2395.576,"endTime":2400.27,"body":"was the 24th of your allotted 25 missions."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2400.33,"endTime":2404.082,"body":"So it was the next to last mission. That's correct."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2404.216,"endTime":2407.286,"body":"And what were the odds of even"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2407.348,"endTime":2410.766,"body":"making it to 24 were extremely low. Correct."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2410.828,"endTime":2415.158,"body":"The odds at that time, they changed during the course of"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2415.184,"endTime":2420.054,"body":"the war because of the opposition that we faced, but our"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2420.092,"endTime":2427.34,"body":"chances of surviving 25 missions were one in four."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2427.67,"endTime":2428.42,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2428.93,"endTime":2429.99,"body":"Incredible."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2430.37,"endTime":2434.118,"body":"So lucky you finished your 25 missions and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2434.144,"endTime":2437.48,"body":"then it's back to the United States."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2437.81,"endTime":2442.626,"body":"And in those days, I guess there was no real"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2442.688,"endTime":2447.474,"body":"understanding of post traumatic stress disorder or any kind of"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2447.512,"endTime":2453.438,"body":"psychological adjustment that somebody who had faced death constantly and"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2453.464,"endTime":2457.638,"body":"been surrounded by it on a daily basis, how did"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2457.664,"endTime":2460.686,"body":"you manage to deal with that?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2460.808,"endTime":2464.922,"body":"Well, I hit the bottle, for one thing, and I"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2464.936,"endTime":2470.31,"body":"was so darn glad to be alive that I really"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2470.36,"endTime":2474.306,"body":"didn't care whole lot about whether school kept or not."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2474.488,"endTime":2479.622,"body":"But I was really most anxious to share my"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2479.696,"endTime":2483.32,"body":"combat experience with crews that were going over."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2484.49,"endTime":2486.68,"body":"And so I felt that that was"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2487.67,"endTime":2490.746,"body":"an immediate assignment to doing that."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2490.928,"endTime":2494.814,"body":"Training replacement crews would be the"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2494.852,"endTime":2497.36,"body":"best use of my experience."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2498.47,"endTime":2502.494,"body":"And in the interval between finishing my 25th"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2502.532,"endTime":2506.07,"body":"mission and getting back overseas and going on"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2506.12,"endTime":2510.114,"body":"leave and going down to Miami Beach to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2510.152,"endTime":2514.014,"body":"the redistribution center and all of that for"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2514.052,"endTime":2516.81,"body":"several months there that I didn't even fly."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2517.85,"endTime":2522.618,"body":"And after being so concentrated and so busy with"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2522.644,"endTime":2527.982,"body":"the jobs that I had in completing my 25"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2528.116,"endTime":2532.914,"body":"missions, this was just night and day, so I"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2532.952,"endTime":2538.182,"body":"parted a lot, and I was a basket case."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2538.316,"endTime":2540.534,"body":"I mean, how could you not be? Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2540.692,"endTime":2546.09,"body":"They recognized that I was suffering from some combat fatigue,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2546.53,"endTime":2550.374,"body":"and so they sent me to a hospital in St."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2550.412,"endTime":2552.814,"body":"Petersburg, and I said, I don't"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2552.862,"endTime":2554.286,"body":"need to go to that place."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2554.348,"endTime":2556.64,"body":"I need an assignment to work."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2557.33,"endTime":2558.74,"body":"That's what I need."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2559.55,"endTime":2562.698,"body":"And I was convinced that if they kept me"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2562.724,"endTime":2569.0,"body":"busy that I wouldn't be wasting my life. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2569.33,"endTime":2573.882,"body":"I feel that you were helping preparing the guys"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2573.956,"endTime":2577.1,"body":"who are going to face what you had faced. Right."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2578.61,"endTime":2580.654,"body":"Something that I can share with"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2580.692,"endTime":2583.366,"body":"other people that will help them. Exactly."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2583.428,"endTime":2585.658,"body":"Even though it was horrible, at least"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2585.744,"endTime":2588.84,"body":"I can share it with them. Exactly. Yeah."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2589.29,"endTime":2592.246,"body":"And were you eventually given that opportunity?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2592.368,"endTime":2593.65,"body":"Eventually, I was."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2593.76,"endTime":2598.262,"body":"I was assigned to Tampa. Florida."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2598.346,"endTime":2599.52,"body":"McDill Field."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2600.03,"endTime":2602.906,"body":"And I set up a combat crew inspection"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2602.978,"endTime":2608.41,"body":"team where we evaluated crews going over."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2608.52,"endTime":2614.062,"body":"And we took them up and simulated difficulties they'd have to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2614.076,"endTime":2619.822,"body":"cope with and how they could react to them and how"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2619.836,"endTime":2624.718,"body":"they did react to them and give them some semblance that"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2624.744,"endTime":2627.406,"body":"we didn't have the advantage of when we went over."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2627.468,"endTime":2629.702,"body":"Because there was nobody that had any previous"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2629.786,"endTime":2634.678,"body":"experience against the Germans doing what we were"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2634.704,"endTime":2638.83,"body":"doing as the way we were doing it. Yes. Wow."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2639.0,"endTime":2640.318,"body":"When you look back at it"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2640.344,"endTime":2642.314,"body":"over your life, what's your takeaway?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2642.422,"endTime":2644.1,"body":"What do you want to tell people?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2645.87,"endTime":2651.9,"body":"How foolish war is, it proves absolutely nothing."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2652.77,"endTime":2655.81,"body":"We don't learn anything from fighting."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2656.49,"endTime":2659.206,"body":"And it's such a sad commentary on"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2659.268,"endTime":2664.51,"body":"the human condition that rational individuals cannot"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2664.83,"endTime":2670.726,"body":"resolve their differences without armed conflict because"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2670.788,"endTime":2676.63,"body":"of the tremendous cost in every respect."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2677.73,"endTime":2679.25,"body":"And it's futile."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2679.43,"endTime":2680.83,"body":"It is folly."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2682.71,"endTime":2686.186,"body":"And that's what I'm looking back on it now realize"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2686.318,"endTime":2692.954,"body":"that even though we were doing our patriotic duty, we"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2692.992,"endTime":2698.438,"body":"hoped defending our freedoms by going out and putting our"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2698.464,"endTime":2702.58,"body":"lives on the line, to what avail?"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2703.27,"endTime":2707.178,"body":"And I fear that those who didn't"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2707.214,"endTime":2710.33,"body":"come home gave their lives in vain."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2711.31,"endTime":2714.76,"body":"And that's a very sad conclusion to have to reach."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2715.69,"endTime":2718.922,"body":"Well, unfortunately, wars are started by old"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2718.996,"endTime":2722.62,"body":"men and fought by young ones."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2724.87,"endTime":2726.962,"body":"March, 1944."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2727.156,"endTime":2730.19,"body":"Lucky returned home to Chattanooga, Tennessee."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2730.69,"endTime":2732.71,"body":"He was lauded and paraded around"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2732.76,"endTime":2734.87,"body":"the city as a returning hero."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2735.43,"endTime":2737.834,"body":"But the idealism he had taken with him"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2737.872,"endTime":2740.75,"body":"into war as a young recruit was now"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2740.8,"endTime":2744.474,"body":"replaced by the trauma of losing friends, including"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2744.522,"endTime":2748.334,"body":"his best friend, sully and nightmares, sparked by"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2748.372,"endTime":2751.926,"body":"terrifying hours in the cold blue sky, battling"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2751.998,"endTime":2756.006,"body":"German fighters and teeth rattling flak and frostbite."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2756.198,"endTime":2759.254,"body":"Like many survivors of the war, lucky didn't talk"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2759.292,"endTime":2763.538,"body":"about his wartime experiences for 50 years because, as"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2763.564,"endTime":2767.57,"body":"he writes, recalling them was not a pleasant exercise."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2768.25,"endTime":2771.614,"body":"Now 100 years old, he says, quote that while"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2771.652,"endTime":2774.578,"body":"being terribly proud to having served my country when"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2774.604,"endTime":2777.542,"body":"called upon in the time of need, I view"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2777.616,"endTime":2782.13,"body":"armed conflict as a sad commentary on Adversaries failure"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2782.19,"endTime":2785.51,"body":"to reach reasonable resolution of their differences."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2786.13,"endTime":2788.414,"body":"His advice to all Americans is to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2788.452,"endTime":2791.69,"body":"stay united and seek common ground."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2792.31,"endTime":2795.458,"body":"We prove that during World War II, Lucky says,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2795.604,"endTime":2799.866,"body":"and we can prove it again with great gratitude."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2799.938,"endTime":2803.37,"body":"We thank John Lucky Luck Adoo for his amazing valor"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2803.43,"endTime":2807.582,"body":"and service to our country and to author Kevin Mauer"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2807.666,"endTime":2812.126,"body":"for preserving Lucky's inspiring story in his excellent new book,"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2812.248,"endTime":2816.71,"body":"damn they're today's heroes behind the headlines."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2817.33,"endTime":2818.67,"body":"Thank you for listening."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2818.79,"endTime":2820.83,"body":"I'm your host, Ralph Pazulo."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2820.95,"endTime":2822.666,"body":"Please like and subscribe."},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2822.858,"endTime":2824.558,"body":"And don't forget to tune in to"},{"speaker":"That's where 12","startTime":2824.584,"endTime":2826.94,"body":"the next episode of heroes behind."}]}