{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.25,"endTime":3.042,"body":"During this investigation, she had revealed to"},{"startTime":3.056,"endTime":5.338,"body":"me that there was another Al Qaeda"},{"startTime":5.374,"endTime":7.902,"body":"operative sent to the United States."},{"startTime":8.096,"endTime":10.786,"body":"Right before Chiheb was sent to Canada,"},{"startTime":10.918,"endTime":13.7,"body":"there was an American sleeper cell."},{"startTime":16.23,"endTime":18.458,"body":"He is the first undercover Muslim"},{"startTime":18.494,"endTime":19.822,"body":"FBI agent to go public."},{"startTime":19.896,"endTime":21.998,"body":"He spent his life infiltrating ISIS"},{"startTime":22.034,"endTime":24.038,"body":"and Al Qaeda, his identity entirely"},{"startTime":24.074,"endTime":26.4,"body":"altered for matters of national security."},{"startTime":41.35,"endTime":43.806,"body":"Welcome to heroes behind headlines."},{"startTime":43.938,"endTime":46.07,"body":"I'm your host, Ralph Pezzullo."},{"startTime":46.45,"endTime":49.166,"body":"Please subscribe and check out some of our past"},{"startTime":49.228,"endTime":53.234,"body":"episodes, such as the epic battle of Mirbat and"},{"startTime":53.272,"endTime":57.218,"body":"World War II's most infamous survival story, as well"},{"startTime":57.244,"endTime":59.98,"body":"as new episodes that are released every week."},{"startTime":60.43,"endTime":63.966,"body":"Our guest today is FBI undercover agent Tamer"},{"startTime":64.038,"endTime":67.454,"body":"Elnoury, which, due to the dangerous nature of"},{"startTime":67.492,"endTime":69.65,"body":"the work he's done, is a pseudonym."},{"startTime":70.09,"endTime":72.482,"body":"He's the author, with Kevin Mauer, of"},{"startTime":72.496,"endTime":76.478,"body":"the explosive memoir american radical inside the"},{"startTime":76.504,"endTime":79.54,"body":"world of an undercover Muslim FBI agent."},{"startTime":80.23,"endTime":83.318,"body":"Born in Egypt, Tamer immigrated to New Jersey with his"},{"startTime":83.344,"endTime":86.762,"body":"family when he was five and worked undercover in law"},{"startTime":86.776,"endTime":90.858,"body":"enforcement, using the persona of a street thug named Rico"},{"startTime":90.894,"endTime":94.43,"body":"Jordan to break up cocaine and heroin rings."},{"startTime":95.29,"endTime":99.35,"body":"After the tragic events of September 11, 2001,"},{"startTime":99.52,"endTime":103.146,"body":"he joined the FBI's joint terrorism task force,"},{"startTime":103.278,"endTime":106.83,"body":"a local, state and federal law enforcement partnership"},{"startTime":106.95,"endTime":109.43,"body":"spearheading the fight against terrorism."},{"startTime":109.81,"endTime":112.778,"body":"Today, he's going to talk about going undercover in"},{"startTime":112.804,"endTime":116.03,"body":"2012 to penetrate an Al Qaeda cell that was"},{"startTime":116.08,"endTime":120.378,"body":"T in Canada and planning attacks against civilian targets"},{"startTime":120.474,"endTime":122.5,"body":"in Canada and the United States."},{"startTime":122.83,"endTime":125.826,"body":"We're honored to welcome the courageous Tamer"},{"startTime":125.838,"endTime":129.71,"body":"Elnoury as today's hero behind the headlines."},{"startTime":133.79,"endTime":137.178,"body":"I was born in Egypt, came to the United States"},{"startTime":137.264,"endTime":139.542,"body":"with my family as a four and a half year"},{"startTime":139.556,"endTime":144.222,"body":"old and raised in the States in New Jersey, and"},{"startTime":144.296,"endTime":147.894,"body":"I got into law enforcement back in 1995."},{"startTime":147.992,"endTime":149.97,"body":"So, yeah, I'm a bit of a dinosaur."},{"startTime":151.19,"endTime":153.582,"body":"So what kind of law enforcement were you in?"},{"startTime":153.656,"endTime":157.162,"body":"Well, I started essentially almost immediately"},{"startTime":157.306,"endTime":160.186,"body":"working undercover narcotics, and that's essentially"},{"startTime":160.258,"endTime":161.96,"body":"how my career started off."},{"startTime":162.35,"endTime":165.8,"body":"So, Tamer Elnoury, is that your real name?"},{"startTime":166.25,"endTime":168.858,"body":"No, actually, it's not my given name."},{"startTime":169.004,"endTime":172.174,"body":"It is one of several aliases I have used throughout"},{"startTime":172.222,"endTime":175.77,"body":"my career to infiltrate terror cells across the globe."},{"startTime":176.09,"endTime":177.642,"body":"I'm not a Navy Seal or a"},{"startTime":177.656,"endTime":179.562,"body":"green beret or anything like that."},{"startTime":179.696,"endTime":183.054,"body":"I'm just the Jersey cop, Ralph, that was at the right"},{"startTime":183.092,"endTime":186.56,"body":"place at the wrong time with the right skill set."},{"startTime":187.31,"endTime":190.438,"body":"And for the better part of the last two decades, I've"},{"startTime":190.474,"endTime":193.834,"body":"actually been a royal pain in the ass to Al Qaeda"},{"startTime":193.882,"endTime":199.458,"body":"and ISIS because my job was to decimate them from the"},{"startTime":199.484,"endTime":203.0,"body":"inside out without them ever seeing me coming."},{"startTime":203.81,"endTime":206.842,"body":"My job, Ralph, in a nutshell, was to put my arm"},{"startTime":206.866,"endTime":210.354,"body":"around some of the worst people on the planet, convince them"},{"startTime":210.452,"endTime":213.978,"body":"that I was their best friend, their brother in arms, and"},{"startTime":214.004,"endTime":217.59,"body":"then ruin all their plans of death and destruction."},{"startTime":219.11,"endTime":221.002,"body":"So how do you go from a street"},{"startTime":221.026,"endTime":223.95,"body":"cop in New Jersey to an FBI undercover?"},{"startTime":224.39,"endTime":226.734,"body":"Well, I did spend the first half"},{"startTime":226.772,"endTime":229.138,"body":"of my career working undercover narcotics."},{"startTime":229.294,"endTime":232.158,"body":"And the truth is, when I"},{"startTime":232.184,"endTime":234.418,"body":"first started, I was pretty awful."},{"startTime":234.574,"endTime":237.162,"body":"It's only by the grace of God and the amazing team I"},{"startTime":237.176,"endTime":240.162,"body":"had behind me that I didn't die in those early years."},{"startTime":240.356,"endTime":242.002,"body":"You see, when we're bad at something, it's"},{"startTime":242.026,"endTime":244.46,"body":"easy to blame nerves or inexperienced, right?"},{"startTime":244.97,"endTime":246.93,"body":"But there's always more to it."},{"startTime":247.1,"endTime":250.186,"body":"Prior to my first ever hand in hand undercover crack"},{"startTime":250.198,"endTime":254.374,"body":"cocaine by, I was filled with so many preconceived notions"},{"startTime":254.542,"endTime":256.697,"body":"what the dealer was going to look and sound like,"},{"startTime":256.784,"endTime":258.666,"body":"what I was supposed to look and sound like."},{"startTime":258.728,"endTime":261.56,"body":"I had all these biases before I even got on the set."},{"startTime":261.89,"endTime":264.874,"body":"That first undercover by, at that moment, I couldn't"},{"startTime":264.922,"endTime":267.318,"body":"tell you if the dude was white or black."},{"startTime":267.464,"endTime":268.914,"body":"Shit, I probably couldn't even have told"},{"startTime":268.952,"endTime":270.214,"body":"you if it was a dude."},{"startTime":270.322,"endTime":275.178,"body":"I was so preoccupied with myself and spewing every bit"},{"startTime":275.204,"endTime":277.83,"body":"of my legend or my cover story in our short"},{"startTime":277.88,"endTime":280.894,"body":"time together that I never took any time to actively"},{"startTime":280.942,"endTime":283.158,"body":"listen to him during the buy or pick up on"},{"startTime":283.184,"endTime":286.17,"body":"any clues that could help with the investigation."},{"startTime":286.67,"endTime":288.33,"body":"I had tunnel vision."},{"startTime":288.71,"endTime":290.718,"body":"All that mattered to me at that moment in"},{"startTime":290.744,"endTime":293.298,"body":"time was getting the drugs in my hand and"},{"startTime":293.324,"endTime":296.37,"body":"making sure he never suspected I was a cop."},{"startTime":296.54,"endTime":299.346,"body":"I did everything wrong, and I missed everything."},{"startTime":299.528,"endTime":302.226,"body":"That's when I quickly realized I had a"},{"startTime":302.228,"endTime":304.04,"body":"lot to learn after that first buy."},{"startTime":305.09,"endTime":306.894,"body":"Because you want the opposite, right?"},{"startTime":306.992,"endTime":311.322,"body":"You want to be perfectly natural in your"},{"startTime":311.396,"endTime":315.14,"body":"undercover role and just be picking up everything"},{"startTime":316.07,"endTime":319.206,"body":"from the people that you're with, right? Absolutely."},{"startTime":319.328,"endTime":320.574,"body":"Everything. Absolutely."},{"startTime":320.672,"endTime":322.698,"body":"And, Ralph, the truth of the matter is, as an"},{"startTime":322.724,"endTime":326.362,"body":"undercover cop, the end game isn't just buying the drugs."},{"startTime":326.506,"endTime":328.87,"body":"The end game, it's an investigation."},{"startTime":328.93,"endTime":333.742,"body":"You're an investigative tool when you basically can't"},{"startTime":333.886,"endTime":336.666,"body":"get to the truth through any other means."},{"startTime":336.848,"endTime":340.002,"body":"This is a very invasive tool, but at the end of"},{"startTime":340.016,"endTime":344.382,"body":"the day, if you're not picking up on subtle cues and"},{"startTime":344.396,"endTime":347.53,"body":"you're not observant and you're not looking at the big picture,"},{"startTime":347.71,"endTime":349.82,"body":"then you're not much of a tool anyway."},{"startTime":350.39,"endTime":355.638,"body":"So 911 happens, and it turns all of our lives around."},{"startTime":355.784,"endTime":359.406,"body":"But I would imagine with someone of your"},{"startTime":359.468,"endTime":362.838,"body":"background and your skills, you suddenly became a"},{"startTime":362.864,"endTime":365.61,"body":"very valuable commodity to the FBI."},{"startTime":366.95,"endTime":368.022,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":368.156,"endTime":371.338,"body":"I mean, 911 was personal to all of us, Ralph."},{"startTime":371.434,"endTime":372.822,"body":"Every single American."},{"startTime":372.956,"endTime":374.07,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"startTime":374.24,"endTime":377.24,"body":"And for me, it actually became a calling."},{"startTime":377.69,"endTime":378.942,"body":"I was in a unique position"},{"startTime":379.016,"endTime":381.27,"body":"to actually do something about it."},{"startTime":381.44,"endTime":383.614,"body":"I speak Arabic like I speak English,"},{"startTime":383.722,"endTime":385.7,"body":"without the Jersey accent, of course."},{"startTime":386.63,"endTime":388.95,"body":"I know the true meaning of the religion."},{"startTime":389.45,"endTime":390.49,"body":"I know the culture."},{"startTime":390.55,"endTime":392.442,"body":"I was already in law enforcement with"},{"startTime":392.456,"endTime":394.314,"body":"a significant amount of undercover experience."},{"startTime":394.412,"endTime":396.258,"body":"I knew I could help in some"},{"startTime":396.284,"endTime":398.77,"body":"way, even if that meant just translating."},{"startTime":398.95,"endTime":402.62,"body":"I really wanted to help because I needed to help."},{"startTime":403.13,"endTime":405.882,"body":"Because some asshole in a cave made me"},{"startTime":405.956,"endTime":408.68,"body":"and my family the enemy that day."},{"startTime":409.07,"endTime":410.538,"body":"And kind of cast the whole"},{"startTime":410.564,"endTime":413.862,"body":"religion in a very negative light. Absolutely."},{"startTime":414.056,"endTime":418.678,"body":"And Americans never really heard, or most Americans didn't"},{"startTime":418.714,"endTime":421.102,"body":"really understand the true tenets of the religion."},{"startTime":421.246,"endTime":425.754,"body":"And that was essentially the main reason why, after"},{"startTime":425.792,"endTime":429.094,"body":"the case got declassified by the Department of justice,"},{"startTime":429.262,"endTime":432.222,"body":"that I wanted to write American Radical so I"},{"startTime":432.236,"endTime":434.422,"body":"could share this message with the American people that's"},{"startTime":434.446,"endTime":435.738,"body":"so near and dear to my heart."},{"startTime":435.824,"endTime":438.106,"body":"It's a very important message, and it's"},{"startTime":438.118,"endTime":439.782,"body":"an excellent book, by the way."},{"startTime":439.916,"endTime":443.502,"body":"And I think we should point out that you grew up"},{"startTime":443.636,"endTime":446.91,"body":"Muslim, you follow the religion, you're very proud of it."},{"startTime":446.96,"endTime":449.346,"body":"It's part of who you are, and"},{"startTime":449.408,"endTime":453.09,"body":"you're not in any way rejecting that."},{"startTime":453.14,"endTime":456.246,"body":"Instead, you're trying to explain to people that"},{"startTime":456.368,"endTime":459.378,"body":"the religion is not the way it's usually"},{"startTime":459.464,"endTime":462.21,"body":"portrayed, it's not the way that it's used"},{"startTime":462.26,"endTime":466.714,"body":"by radicals to justify their violent acts."},{"startTime":466.882,"endTime":468.2,"body":"Absolutely correct."},{"startTime":468.59,"endTime":470.41,"body":"Couldn't agree more with that statement."},{"startTime":470.53,"endTime":473.922,"body":"So let's talk about the case itself like that you"},{"startTime":473.936,"endTime":477.738,"body":"got involved in, because that's the main subject of the"},{"startTime":477.764,"endTime":482.42,"body":"book, and it came about in a very unusual way."},{"startTime":482.93,"endTime":484.218,"body":"Yes, it did."},{"startTime":484.364,"endTime":486.654,"body":"If I may give you a little"},{"startTime":486.692,"endTime":488.058,"body":"bit of background as to how I"},{"startTime":488.084,"endTime":493.006,"body":"made that transition from narcotics to counterterrorism."},{"startTime":493.138,"endTime":496.63,"body":"It will help so you understand what unit"},{"startTime":496.69,"endTime":499.28,"body":"I actually worked for within the government."},{"startTime":499.91,"endTime":502.494,"body":"So several years after the attack, after"},{"startTime":502.532,"endTime":504.438,"body":"the Bureau wrapped their head around the"},{"startTime":504.464,"endTime":507.51,"body":"war, we were in this new war."},{"startTime":507.68,"endTime":509.358,"body":"I was recruited and trained by the"},{"startTime":509.384,"endTime":512.926,"body":"FBI's National Security Covert Operations Unit."},{"startTime":513.058,"endTime":515.957,"body":"Encos, as it's more affectionately known in"},{"startTime":515.984,"endTime":519.562,"body":"my world, the National Security Covert Operations Unit"},{"startTime":519.586,"endTime":523.402,"body":"is a very small, elite, covert counterterrorism task"},{"startTime":523.426,"endTime":527.13,"body":"force dedicated to combating terrorism domestically and abroad."},{"startTime":527.57,"endTime":530.274,"body":"All of the agents and operatives, as you mentioned,"},{"startTime":530.432,"endTime":533.278,"body":"were plucked and pulled and recruited from law enforcement"},{"startTime":533.314,"endTime":536.442,"body":"agencies across the country, each bringing with them a"},{"startTime":536.456,"endTime":538.34,"body":"unique skill set to the team."},{"startTime":538.67,"endTime":540.342,"body":"And then, of course, we were trained by"},{"startTime":540.356,"endTime":542.42,"body":"the entire alphabet of the US government."},{"startTime":543.05,"endTime":545.454,"body":"And we became essentially these"},{"startTime":545.492,"endTime":547.28,"body":"brand new hybrid agents."},{"startTime":547.67,"endTime":550.23,"body":"What that means is when we operate on US"},{"startTime":550.28,"endTime":552.894,"body":"soil, we put our law enforcement hats on."},{"startTime":552.992,"endTime":555.958,"body":"We recorded meetings and phone calls and collect evidence"},{"startTime":556.054,"endTime":558.718,"body":"and build a prosecutable case for the US attorney."},{"startTime":558.814,"endTime":560.65,"body":"And if that case ever went to trial,"},{"startTime":560.77,"endTime":563.49,"body":"our identities were protected under the CIPA Act."},{"startTime":563.54,"endTime":566.0,"body":"So we can continue to do our job,"},{"startTime":566.33,"endTime":568.398,"body":"but when we're tasked with working overseas or"},{"startTime":568.424,"endTime":570.954,"body":"abroad, we simply put our spy hats on"},{"startTime":571.052,"endTime":573.562,"body":"and we collect intelligence to further the mission."},{"startTime":573.706,"endTime":575.61,"body":"And this is unique, correct?"},{"startTime":575.72,"endTime":579.19,"body":"Very unique because it didn't exist prior to 911."},{"startTime":579.25,"endTime":580.074,"body":"Isn't that right?"},{"startTime":580.172,"endTime":581.158,"body":"Perfectly put, Ralph."},{"startTime":581.194,"endTime":582.522,"body":"And that's exactly what I was going to tell"},{"startTime":582.536,"endTime":585.834,"body":"you, is after 911, after the Commission and all"},{"startTime":585.872,"endTime":587.886,"body":"the things that happened, when we looked in the"},{"startTime":587.888,"endTime":592.062,"body":"mirror and saw our mistakes, the wall between law"},{"startTime":592.076,"endTime":596.454,"body":"enforcement and intelligence came down finally after decades, and"},{"startTime":596.552,"endTime":598.854,"body":"because, truth be told, the world became too small"},{"startTime":598.892,"endTime":600.958,"body":"of a place for us to limit our counterterrorism"},{"startTime":600.994,"endTime":602.698,"body":"efforts to just within our borders."},{"startTime":602.794,"endTime":606.14,"body":"And our new unit became this new mission personifed."},{"startTime":608.33,"endTime":610.474,"body":"For most Americans, the 9/11"},{"startTime":610.522,"endTime":612.93,"body":"attacks changed the world forever."},{"startTime":613.49,"endTime":616.794,"body":"The Bush administration responded by declaring a war"},{"startTime":616.832,"endTime":620.118,"body":"on terrorism to bring Osama bin Laden and"},{"startTime":620.144,"endTime":623.85,"body":"al Qaeda to justice and prevent further attacks."},{"startTime":624.17,"endTime":626.746,"body":"It called for increased global surveillance"},{"startTime":626.818,"endTime":629.994,"body":"and increased domestic intelligence gathering and"},{"startTime":630.032,"endTime":633.09,"body":"cooperation between law enforcement agencies."},{"startTime":633.65,"endTime":635.73,"body":"For the first time in history, the wall"},{"startTime":635.78,"endTime":639.198,"body":"came down between the FBI and CIA, and"},{"startTime":639.224,"endTime":643.04,"body":"the two agencies fully cooperated and shared information."},{"startTime":644.03,"endTime":646.002,"body":"This led to the creation of"},{"startTime":646.016,"endTime":648.93,"body":"the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force."},{"startTime":649.55,"endTime":651.594,"body":"A priority for the task force was"},{"startTime":651.632,"endTime":655.05,"body":"recruiting Muslims and native Arabic speakers."},{"startTime":655.61,"endTime":659.142,"body":"Tamer, who speaks fluent Arabic and had already done"},{"startTime":659.216,"endTime":662.698,"body":"years of undercover work, was a perfect candidate."},{"startTime":662.854,"endTime":665.974,"body":"But he still had to graduate from the elite FBI"},{"startTime":666.022,"endTime":669.92,"body":"undercover school, which had a failure rate of 50%."},{"startTime":670.79,"endTime":674.938,"body":"He passed with flying colors for the next phase"},{"startTime":674.974,"endTime":677.478,"body":"of his training, the FBI sent him to the"},{"startTime":677.504,"endTime":680.13,"body":"Howard Fine Acting School in Los Angeles."},{"startTime":680.81,"endTime":683.578,"body":"Howard Fine, who had coached some of the biggest stars"},{"startTime":683.614,"endTime":687.646,"body":"in Hollywood, taught Tamer how to tap into emotions."},{"startTime":687.718,"endTime":691.59,"body":"He already had to create a believable character,"},{"startTime":691.97,"endTime":695.214,"body":"one who could convince violent terrorists that he"},{"startTime":695.252,"endTime":698.55,"body":"shared their same radical Islamic beliefs."},{"startTime":700.61,"endTime":702.834,"body":"And it's funny, Ralph, because when we first got"},{"startTime":702.872,"endTime":706.626,"body":"that assignment, saying, all right, you're going to La"},{"startTime":706.688,"endTime":709.518,"body":"for ten days, two weeks, whatever it was, to"},{"startTime":709.544,"endTime":712.662,"body":"meet with an acting coach, we all balked at it."},{"startTime":712.676,"endTime":713.142,"body":"We're like, what?"},{"startTime":713.156,"endTime":715.054,"body":"Are you fucking kidding me? We're not laughs."},{"startTime":715.102,"endTime":716.974,"body":"Yeah, we're not actors."},{"startTime":717.082,"endTime":718.47,"body":"We don't need this shit."},{"startTime":719.15,"endTime":721.294,"body":"It wasn't until And I met Howard,"},{"startTime":721.402,"endTime":722.674,"body":"fell in love with him immediately."},{"startTime":722.722,"endTime":726.126,"body":"He's a brilliant acting coach, but what he did,"},{"startTime":726.188,"endTime":728.478,"body":"and he, out of the goodness of his own"},{"startTime":728.504,"endTime":731.118,"body":"heart, shut down his school for us."},{"startTime":731.264,"endTime":736.326,"body":"And what he did was help us tap into emotions while"},{"startTime":736.388,"endTime":740.91,"body":"we were acting in a covert capacity that were extremely important"},{"startTime":741.08,"endTime":744.57,"body":"and opened up a whole new world for all of us."},{"startTime":744.74,"endTime":749.0,"body":"It's very important when you're on target with people who"},{"startTime":749.81,"endTime":755.454,"body":"have an extreme ideology that they sense and feel your"},{"startTime":755.492,"endTime":758.982,"body":"actual pain that they have because they have it."},{"startTime":759.056,"endTime":762.474,"body":"And when it gets personal, it adds a whole new"},{"startTime":762.512,"endTime":767.25,"body":"layer to realism, to who you are, to your legend."},{"startTime":767.57,"endTime":771.31,"body":"And that helps me do my job. Absolutely. Fascinating."},{"startTime":771.43,"endTime":774.414,"body":"Okay, so please tell us how this"},{"startTime":774.452,"endTime":776.514,"body":"particular case you got involved in."},{"startTime":776.552,"endTime":778.63,"body":"I mean, it was sort of unusual."},{"startTime":778.75,"endTime":779.662,"body":"Yeah, no doubt."},{"startTime":779.746,"endTime":782.578,"body":"So basically, after over a decade of working drugs,"},{"startTime":782.614,"endTime":785.67,"body":"I started the counterterrorism chapter of my career."},{"startTime":787.85,"endTime":789.858,"body":"You'd think at this point, considering my"},{"startTime":789.884,"endTime":792.042,"body":"background and experience, that I would have"},{"startTime":792.056,"endTime":795.118,"body":"hit the ground running, but I didn't."},{"startTime":795.274,"endTime":797.898,"body":"The enormity and globality of each and every"},{"startTime":797.924,"endTime":800.434,"body":"case that I worked were truly overwhelming."},{"startTime":800.602,"endTime":802.102,"body":"There was no room for error."},{"startTime":802.186,"endTime":804.498,"body":"The difference in the drug world, the"},{"startTime":804.524,"endTime":806.43,"body":"propensity for violence, was always there."},{"startTime":806.54,"endTime":807.798,"body":"We trained for it, and we worked"},{"startTime":807.824,"endTime":810.318,"body":"at anticipating every scenario because criminals were"},{"startTime":810.344,"endTime":813.49,"body":"motivated by money, greed, power, addiction."},{"startTime":813.61,"endTime":814.65,"body":"I understood all that."},{"startTime":814.7,"endTime":816.14,"body":"It made sense to me."},{"startTime":816.65,"endTime":819.31,"body":"But in this world, we were fighting an ideology."},{"startTime":819.49,"endTime":821.542,"body":"How do you defeat an enemy that's"},{"startTime":821.566,"endTime":823.35,"body":"willing to die for a cause?"},{"startTime":823.52,"endTime":826.23,"body":"A mistake meant innocent people died."},{"startTime":826.79,"endTime":829.554,"body":"So I had to relearn my upbringing and"},{"startTime":829.592,"endTime":832.746,"body":"understand the major differences and the nuances between"},{"startTime":832.808,"endTime":835.35,"body":"mainstream Islam and a radical mindset."},{"startTime":835.67,"endTime":838.474,"body":"As you mentioned earlier, Ralph, I knew my religion"},{"startTime":838.522,"endTime":840.742,"body":"growing up, but I was far from an expert."},{"startTime":840.886,"endTime":842.982,"body":"I had to know it better so I"},{"startTime":842.996,"endTime":845.902,"body":"could understand how these people twisted a religion"},{"startTime":845.926,"endTime":848.07,"body":"of peace for their own agendas."},{"startTime":849.11,"endTime":852.102,"body":"So I was a street cop, but now I had"},{"startTime":852.116,"endTime":854.95,"body":"to learn our trade craft when I operated overseas."},{"startTime":855.01,"endTime":856.662,"body":"I had to learn all the different"},{"startTime":856.736,"endTime":858.646,"body":"trade crafts of the different terror groups."},{"startTime":858.718,"endTime":859.698,"body":"How they moved, how they"},{"startTime":859.724,"endTime":861.514,"body":"operated, how they communicated."},{"startTime":861.682,"endTime":863.758,"body":"I had to learn the fundamental differences"},{"startTime":863.794,"endTime":865.114,"body":"of meeting the elements of a crime"},{"startTime":865.162,"endTime":867.514,"body":"stateside and simply gathering intelligence."},{"startTime":867.562,"endTime":870.418,"body":"When I was abroad, it was genuinely"},{"startTime":870.454,"endTime":872.25,"body":"like drinking from a fire hose."},{"startTime":872.57,"endTime":875.502,"body":"But I loved every second of it because I got"},{"startTime":875.516,"endTime":878.862,"body":"to serve my country in a very unique way. Absolutely."},{"startTime":878.996,"endTime":888.19,"body":"So getting to this case a few years later, after I finally"},{"startTime":888.24,"endTime":891.96,"body":"got my feet under me, it was the spring of 2012."},{"startTime":892.35,"endTime":894.434,"body":"I got a phone call from FBI headquarters"},{"startTime":894.482,"endTime":897.07,"body":"about a possible threat in Montreal, Canada."},{"startTime":897.51,"endTime":900.146,"body":"This individual was scheduled to go to some scientific"},{"startTime":900.218,"endTime":902.758,"body":"conference in California in a couple of months, and"},{"startTime":902.784,"endTime":905.35,"body":"the Bureau wanted me to take his temperature."},{"startTime":906.57,"endTime":909.262,"body":"Now, I was juggling quite the caseload at the time, and"},{"startTime":909.276,"endTime":912.094,"body":"they knew that, but I was assured that this would be"},{"startTime":912.132,"endTime":915.3,"body":"a three or four day babysitting assignment at most."},{"startTime":915.75,"endTime":918.262,"body":"So basically, the FBI wanted me to get in"},{"startTime":918.276,"endTime":920.374,"body":"front of this guy in an undercover capacity and"},{"startTime":920.412,"endTime":923.138,"body":"determine whether or not he was a threat."},{"startTime":923.294,"endTime":926.038,"body":"That individual, Ralph, turned out to be, as"},{"startTime":926.064,"endTime":929.714,"body":"you know from reading the book, Chiheb Esseghaier"},{"startTime":929.882,"endTime":934.658,"body":"a Tunisian born, brilliant PhD student, world renowned"},{"startTime":934.754,"endTime":937.658,"body":"for his work in biological nanotechnology."},{"startTime":937.814,"endTime":939.634,"body":"Now, if you're wondering what that is,"},{"startTime":939.672,"endTime":943.986,"body":"I wish I could tell you shit. Ralph."},{"startTime":944.058,"endTime":946.214,"body":"His work was more like science fiction to me."},{"startTime":946.252,"endTime":947.474,"body":"And not the good kind, the kind"},{"startTime":947.512,"endTime":949.6,"body":"that you just didn't understand, right?"},{"startTime":950.11,"endTime":952.766,"body":"But people in the science community raved about him."},{"startTime":952.888,"endTime":955.41,"body":"They said he was on the precipice of curing"},{"startTime":955.47,"endTime":958.794,"body":"some forms of cancer and other infectious diseases."},{"startTime":958.962,"endTime":963.17,"body":"His mind was truly a gift to humanity."},{"startTime":963.91,"endTime":966.186,"body":"But he also happened to be an Al Qaeda operative"},{"startTime":966.258,"endTime":969.69,"body":"sent here to conduct terrorist attacks in North America."},{"startTime":969.87,"endTime":971.882,"body":"Now, we didn't know that after the"},{"startTime":971.896,"endTime":973.154,"body":"first week that I spent with him."},{"startTime":973.192,"endTime":974.68,"body":"I'm good, but I'm not that good."},{"startTime":975.49,"endTime":979.322,"body":"But we did know that he was extremely dangerous and"},{"startTime":979.336,"endTime":982.18,"body":"that he was connected to some pretty awful people."},{"startTime":982.75,"endTime":985.878,"body":"And that three or four day babysitting assignment turned"},{"startTime":985.914,"endTime":989.98,"body":"into three and a half years of my life."},{"startTime":991.57,"endTime":996.446,"body":"And he had actually traveled overseas and"},{"startTime":996.508,"endTime":999.642,"body":"met with higher ups in Al Qaeda."},{"startTime":999.786,"endTime":1001.762,"body":"Absolutely right. Yes."},{"startTime":1001.896,"endTime":1005.794,"body":"As a matter of fact, not only was this"},{"startTime":1005.832,"endTime":1009.358,"body":"guy's IQ off the charts, he had access to"},{"startTime":1009.384,"endTime":1012.986,"body":"the west, but he was, as you mentioned, directly"},{"startTime":1013.058,"endTime":1015.37,"body":"connected to Al Qaeda senior leadership."},{"startTime":1015.93,"endTime":1021.25,"body":"We learned later, Ralph, that Chiheb Esseghaier was one"},{"startTime":1021.36,"endTime":1025.786,"body":"step removed from Ayman al-Zawahiri, the leader of Al"},{"startTime":1025.788,"endTime":1028.294,"body":"Qaeda, the most wanted man in the world today."},{"startTime":1028.452,"endTime":1030.91,"body":"He carried a handwritten note from him"},{"startTime":1030.96,"endTime":1033.226,"body":"in his wallet everywhere he went."},{"startTime":1033.348,"endTime":1034.329,"body":"Incredible."},{"startTime":1034.829,"endTime":1038.473,"body":"I've heard other stories where people talk about Al Qaeda"},{"startTime":1038.582,"endTime":1041.99,"body":"and their cells that are sort of like, disconnected."},{"startTime":1042.05,"endTime":1045.013,"body":"They claim loyalty to Al Qaeda, but they're"},{"startTime":1045.061,"endTime":1047.425,"body":"not really in touch with the leadership."},{"startTime":1047.558,"endTime":1052.85,"body":"But this gentleman, he was closely embedded"},{"startTime":1052.91,"endTime":1055.802,"body":"to the top leadership, without a doubt."},{"startTime":1055.886,"endTime":1057.59,"body":"And what was his mission?"},{"startTime":1057.77,"endTime":1060.01,"body":"Well, part of his training, Ralph,"},{"startTime":1060.87,"endTime":1063.898,"body":"was teaching him how to create"},{"startTime":1063.984,"endTime":1066.566,"body":"terror and mayhem and different opportunities."},{"startTime":1066.638,"endTime":1068.914,"body":"They essentially opened up their playbook to him."},{"startTime":1068.952,"endTime":1074.182,"body":"But his essential first mission was to blow up a train"},{"startTime":1074.316,"endTime":1077.594,"body":"from New York City to Toronto on the Via rail."},{"startTime":1077.762,"endTime":1079.274,"body":"And that was his direct task"},{"startTime":1079.322,"endTime":1081.78,"body":"from Al Qaeda senior leadership. Wow."},{"startTime":1083.83,"endTime":1086.754,"body":"So tell us about that first meeting,"},{"startTime":1086.802,"endTime":1091.262,"body":"because it's very interesting how it happened. Yes."},{"startTime":1091.396,"endTime":1093.314,"body":"So I first met the team."},{"startTime":1093.352,"endTime":1094.838,"body":"This case was being run out of New York"},{"startTime":1094.864,"endTime":1097.178,"body":"City, so I got to work with the best"},{"startTime":1097.204,"endTime":1100.19,"body":"in the business CT One, the Al Qaeda squad."},{"startTime":1100.63,"endTime":1102.758,"body":"Our core group became a family during this"},{"startTime":1102.784,"endTime":1104.81,"body":"case, and we're all still very close today."},{"startTime":1104.98,"endTime":1108.518,"body":"The case agent Nelson, who I call Nelly, and the"},{"startTime":1108.544,"endTime":1112.562,"body":"contact agent, Joey, are both like brothers to me today."},{"startTime":1112.636,"endTime":1115.41,"body":"And those two men are truly American heroes."},{"startTime":1115.47,"endTime":1118.202,"body":"Most Americans will never know the sacrifices that they"},{"startTime":1118.216,"endTime":1120.218,"body":"have done in their career and the lies that"},{"startTime":1120.244,"endTime":1125.32,"body":"they're responsible for saving, not just including my own."},{"startTime":1126.31,"endTime":1128.462,"body":"And when I first met the team, we met in a"},{"startTime":1128.476,"endTime":1132.11,"body":"skiff in New York City, a secret compartment information facility."},{"startTime":1132.67,"endTime":1133.958,"body":"And that's where you go to"},{"startTime":1133.984,"endTime":1136.18,"body":"look at and discuss classified information."},{"startTime":1137.77,"endTime":1140.498,"body":"But at that moment, nothing that was said"},{"startTime":1140.524,"endTime":1142.074,"body":"in that meeting and nothing in those documents"},{"startTime":1142.122,"endTime":1143.39,"body":"was going to help me do my job."},{"startTime":1143.44,"endTime":1145.382,"body":"So we needed a pattern of life."},{"startTime":1145.576,"endTime":1148.682,"body":"After I got the pattern of life, after we did a"},{"startTime":1148.696,"endTime":1151.506,"body":"deep dive into him, I was able to craft my legend"},{"startTime":1151.578,"endTime":1155.15,"body":"so that Tamer Elnoury was the jihadi lottery ticket for him."},{"startTime":1155.26,"endTime":1158.51,"body":"If he was who we thought he was, he would bite."},{"startTime":1159.07,"endTime":1163.082,"body":"So I met him on Father's Day 2012 and spent a"},{"startTime":1163.096,"endTime":1166.59,"body":"week with him in California while he attended his conference."},{"startTime":1166.77,"endTime":1168.218,"body":"We met on a flight from"},{"startTime":1168.244,"endTime":1170.57,"body":"Houston to San Jose, California."},{"startTime":1171.31,"endTime":1174.414,"body":"The bump that we call an initial"},{"startTime":1174.462,"endTime":1176.954,"body":"interaction with a subject went great."},{"startTime":1177.112,"endTime":1180.222,"body":"I passed all his tests, I jumped through all his hoops."},{"startTime":1180.246,"endTime":1182.786,"body":"And we became fast friends that week."},{"startTime":1182.968,"endTime":1184.946,"body":"So fast, in fact, that by the end of"},{"startTime":1184.948,"endTime":1188.5,"body":"the week, he subtly tried to recruit me."},{"startTime":1188.89,"endTime":1190.48,"body":"But I pushed him away."},{"startTime":1191.05,"endTime":1193.802,"body":"And my pushing him away turned out to be"},{"startTime":1193.816,"endTime":1197.39,"body":"the catalyst that solidified our friendship, our connection."},{"startTime":1198.61,"endTime":1200.342,"body":"Now, Ralph, I wish I could tell you that I"},{"startTime":1200.356,"endTime":1202.526,"body":"pushed him away because I'm a brilliant undercover and I"},{"startTime":1202.528,"endTime":1204.998,"body":"was playing the long game, but the truth is, I"},{"startTime":1205.024,"endTime":1209.798,"body":"pushed him away because this guy was Canada's fucking problem."},{"startTime":1209.944,"endTime":1214.014,"body":"Now, listen, I was up to my ears in my own cases,"},{"startTime":1214.062,"endTime":1216.71,"body":"and yes, we helped to identify a potential threat for them."},{"startTime":1216.82,"endTime":1219.762,"body":"But at the end of the day, I thought we were punting."},{"startTime":1219.906,"endTime":1221.5,"body":"At least I thought we were."},{"startTime":1221.83,"endTime":1225.258,"body":"But Ralph, I will tell you this about Chiheb Esseghaier."},{"startTime":1225.414,"endTime":1229.094,"body":"In all the years I've been doing this, I sat with"},{"startTime":1229.132,"endTime":1233.042,"body":"and spent time with so many monsters, no one made the"},{"startTime":1233.056,"endTime":1236.39,"body":"hair on my neck stand up like Chiheb Esseghaier."},{"startTime":1237.19,"endTime":1239.658,"body":"The look in his eyes when he talked about killing"},{"startTime":1239.694,"endTime":1243.4,"body":"Americans was something I'd never seen before in my way."},{"startTime":1245.53,"endTime":1251.018,"body":"Chiheb Esseghaier was a Tunisian citizen living in Montreal who"},{"startTime":1251.044,"endTime":1254.102,"body":"had traveled to Iran twice over the past two years"},{"startTime":1254.236,"endTime":1257.44,"body":"and had made contact with al Qaeda operatives online."},{"startTime":1258.07,"endTime":1260.582,"body":"He was also a brilliant doctoral student"},{"startTime":1260.656,"endTime":1263.44,"body":"at the National Institute of Scientific Research,"},{"startTime":1263.77,"endTime":1267.582,"body":"canada's top research university and world renowned"},{"startTime":1267.606,"endTime":1270.65,"body":"for his work in biological nanotechnology."},{"startTime":1271.03,"endTime":1273.57,"body":"His trips to Iran were a red flag"},{"startTime":1273.63,"endTime":1276.194,"body":"to the FBI because as part of his"},{"startTime":1276.232,"endTime":1279.53,"body":"research, he had access to infectious diseases."},{"startTime":1280.27,"endTime":1283.694,"body":"A devout Muslim, he had stopped attending mosque because"},{"startTime":1283.732,"endTime":1286.91,"body":"he felt most Muslims weren't dedicated to the cause"},{"startTime":1286.96,"endTime":1290.81,"body":"of jihad and were therefore an affront to Islam."},{"startTime":1291.25,"endTime":1293.138,"body":"And he was taking direction from the"},{"startTime":1293.164,"endTime":1294.782,"body":"most wanted man in the world."},{"startTime":1294.916,"endTime":1298.226,"body":"The new leader of AlQaeda, Egyptian born Dr."},{"startTime":1298.348,"endTime":1303.218,"body":"Ayman al-Zawahiri Tamer's job was to convince Chiheb that"},{"startTime":1303.244,"endTime":1306.774,"body":"he was a successful and wealthy Arab American businessman"},{"startTime":1306.882,"endTime":1310.478,"body":"who had been hiding his jihadi beliefs, and he"},{"startTime":1310.504,"endTime":1313.42,"body":"had to make jihad believe that he needed him."},{"startTime":1315.13,"endTime":1317.49,"body":"He was essentially a lost soul."},{"startTime":1317.55,"endTime":1320.102,"body":"Now, it's funny because in my book, if you"},{"startTime":1320.116,"endTime":1323.006,"body":"recall one of the middle chapters, the Best of"},{"startTime":1323.008,"endTime":1327.53,"body":"Them with Jehadim, I dive in to his radicalization."},{"startTime":1328.51,"endTime":1331.274,"body":"Someone like him, being as brilliant as"},{"startTime":1331.312,"endTime":1334.134,"body":"he was, was essentially a lost soul."},{"startTime":1334.302,"endTime":1337.574,"body":"When he came to the Western world, he'd never"},{"startTime":1337.612,"endTime":1340.938,"body":"seen snow before, he'd never seen women in skirts."},{"startTime":1341.094,"endTime":1343.614,"body":"Things just threw him for a loop."},{"startTime":1343.662,"endTime":1346.622,"body":"And because of his intelligence and the fact that"},{"startTime":1346.636,"endTime":1348.95,"body":"he was a lost soul, he was looking."},{"startTime":1349.06,"endTime":1350.522,"body":"He read the Bible, he read the"},{"startTime":1350.536,"endTime":1353.418,"body":"Torah, he read every single religion."},{"startTime":1353.514,"endTime":1355.61,"body":"He was very well versed."},{"startTime":1356.53,"endTime":1358.262,"body":"And he did all that."},{"startTime":1358.396,"endTime":1360.41,"body":"He was searching for a connection."},{"startTime":1361.15,"endTime":1365.214,"body":"And al Qaeda's senior leadership saw that lost soul"},{"startTime":1365.262,"endTime":1368.32,"body":"and preyed on them and realized, we have someone"},{"startTime":1368.77,"endTime":1372.81,"body":"with a brilliant mind that could execute our plans."},{"startTime":1372.99,"endTime":1374.514,"body":"And he had access to the west."},{"startTime":1374.562,"endTime":1377.054,"body":"So he was recruited, brought there for"},{"startTime":1377.092,"endTime":1380.38,"body":"training and for programming, as I call,"},{"startTime":1381.13,"endTime":1383.56,"body":"and he became a weapon for them."},{"startTime":1384.19,"endTime":1386.814,"body":"And he had a very particularly warped"},{"startTime":1386.862,"endTime":1391.0,"body":"sense of Islam, which is key right? Absolutely."},{"startTime":1391.33,"endTime":1393.53,"body":"And it wasn't that warped Ralph until"},{"startTime":1393.58,"endTime":1394.862,"body":"they got their hands on them."},{"startTime":1394.936,"endTime":1395.882,"body":"And that's the thing."},{"startTime":1395.956,"endTime":1400.238,"body":"So, again, every major religion, if you read the Bible, you"},{"startTime":1400.264,"endTime":1402.818,"body":"read the Torah, there are some things, the eye for an"},{"startTime":1402.844,"endTime":1407.858,"body":"eye, and certain things in there that basically are subject to"},{"startTime":1407.884,"endTime":1410.63,"body":"interpretation as far as how far you go."},{"startTime":1410.8,"endTime":1414.254,"body":"What they do is they interpret it in a completely"},{"startTime":1414.352,"endTime":1418.31,"body":"violent and sadistic way to fit their political agendas."},{"startTime":1418.75,"endTime":1420.938,"body":"And at the end of the day, if you"},{"startTime":1420.964,"endTime":1423.194,"body":"are a lost soul and you're browbeaten with this"},{"startTime":1423.232,"endTime":1426.614,"body":"information and you see videos of drone attacks and"},{"startTime":1426.652,"endTime":1431.702,"body":"things,  that happen overseas, it's not very hard"},{"startTime":1431.836,"endTime":1434.93,"body":"to program anyone into this world of hatred."},{"startTime":1435.79,"endTime":1442.146,"body":"And Tamer, particular passages in the Quran that"},{"startTime":1442.208,"endTime":1447.19,"body":"are very specific about you don't hurt innocent"},{"startTime":1447.25,"endTime":1450.08,"body":"people, you don't hurt women and children."},{"startTime":1451.55,"endTime":1455.238,"body":"How was he able to steer around that? Exactly."},{"startTime":1455.324,"endTime":1456.92,"body":"And it's in black and white."},{"startTime":1457.25,"endTime":1458.838,"body":"Certain things in the crown, just like"},{"startTime":1458.864,"endTime":1461.286,"body":"you said, Ralph, is even in times"},{"startTime":1461.348,"endTime":1464.422,"body":"of war, you cannot touch your enemies."},{"startTime":1464.506,"endTime":1466.698,"body":"Women, children, and men who"},{"startTime":1466.724,"endTime":1468.106,"body":"are not on the battlefield."},{"startTime":1468.238,"endTime":1470.73,"body":"It's literally verbatim."},{"startTime":1472.73,"endTime":1474.414,"body":"They justified it."},{"startTime":1474.512,"endTime":1476.982,"body":"And I said that to Chiheb in a conversation in a"},{"startTime":1476.996,"endTime":1480.658,"body":"car once, and that was played for him, for the court."},{"startTime":1480.814,"endTime":1481.89,"body":"During that time."},{"startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1487.654,"body":"His justification was very okay, and you could"},{"startTime":1487.692,"endTime":1491.246,"body":"tell it was someone who was brainwashed."},{"startTime":1491.438,"endTime":1497.09,"body":"That justification was that Israel is an ally"},{"startTime":1497.15,"endTime":1499.066,"body":"to the United States and had a hand"},{"startTime":1499.128,"endTime":1500.83,"body":"in a lot of these atrocities."},{"startTime":1501.39,"endTime":1504.322,"body":"Every Israeli citizen, men, woman and"},{"startTime":1504.336,"endTime":1506.414,"body":"child, is born into their military."},{"startTime":1506.582,"endTime":1509.23,"body":"Therefore the Americans yes."},{"startTime":1509.28,"endTime":1510.96,"body":"You're seeing the stretch. Exactly."},{"startTime":1512.49,"endTime":1514.082,"body":"It takes everything in me when I'm"},{"startTime":1514.106,"endTime":1519.902,"body":"having conversations with these psychopaths, to pretend"},{"startTime":1519.986,"endTime":1522.814,"body":"that I'm enlightened by what they're saying."},{"startTime":1522.852,"endTime":1524.278,"body":"When I want to say, that must"},{"startTime":1524.304,"endTime":1525.31,"body":"be fuck is wrong with you."},{"startTime":1525.36,"endTime":1526.402,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1526.536,"endTime":1530.15,"body":"You want to shake them. Exactly. Incredible."},{"startTime":1530.27,"endTime":1533.554,"body":"So you meet him in California, and even though"},{"startTime":1533.592,"endTime":1537.226,"body":"he's a Canadian really recruiting people to do something"},{"startTime":1537.288,"endTime":1540.442,"body":"in Canada, you're pulled into this case."},{"startTime":1540.576,"endTime":1541.834,"body":"And how does that happen?"},{"startTime":1541.932,"endTime":1545.762,"body":"Well, again, at this point, because I only spent"},{"startTime":1545.786,"endTime":1547.922,"body":"a week with him, and even though the bump"},{"startTime":1547.946,"endTime":1551.71,"body":"went great and we developed a connection, the bottom"},{"startTime":1551.76,"endTime":1553.858,"body":"line was I was not a member of his"},{"startTime":1553.884,"endTime":1556.234,"body":"cell, and I was on the outside looking in."},{"startTime":1556.272,"endTime":1560.002,"body":"I was just another Muslim brother from the"},{"startTime":1560.016,"endTime":1563.398,"body":"United States that shared his views, that had"},{"startTime":1563.424,"endTime":1565.918,"body":"the same passion as he did."},{"startTime":1566.004,"endTime":1567.358,"body":"But that's where I drew the line."},{"startTime":1567.444,"endTime":1569.638,"body":"We told the Canadians, keep an eye on this"},{"startTime":1569.664,"endTime":1572.354,"body":"guy, and transfer this to the RCMP, the Canadian"},{"startTime":1572.402,"endTime":1576.094,"body":"FBI, because at that point, the Canadians had that"},{"startTime":1576.132,"endTime":1579.55,"body":"same wall between their agencies to protect intelligence agents"},{"startTime":1579.6,"endTime":1583.21,"body":"and their techniques from the court system, from discovery."},{"startTime":1584.25,"endTime":1591.254,"body":"But at that point, June of 2012, there was the RCMP"},{"startTime":1591.302,"endTime":1594.322,"body":"had no idea who she had was, and they believe the"},{"startTime":1594.336,"endTime":1598.09,"body":"Canadians, that this was still only an intelligence operation."},{"startTime":1598.77,"endTime":1601.33,"body":"So Chiheb and I stayed in touch."},{"startTime":1601.44,"endTime":1603.37,"body":"That whole summer, we talked all the time."},{"startTime":1603.42,"endTime":1604.774,"body":"We needed to keep tabs on this guy"},{"startTime":1604.812,"endTime":1607.138,"body":"because he was just too dangerous and the"},{"startTime":1607.164,"endTime":1610.33,"body":"people he was communicating with overseas was terrifying."},{"startTime":1610.77,"endTime":1617.318,"body":"So a year before this case ever happened, I promised"},{"startTime":1617.354,"endTime":1619.198,"body":"some very dear friends of mine that I would be"},{"startTime":1619.224,"endTime":1621.374,"body":"around for their destination wedding in the Caribbean."},{"startTime":1621.422,"endTime":1623.58,"body":"Labor Day Weekend 2012."},{"startTime":1624.33,"endTime":1625.454,"body":"You know how it is, Ralph."},{"startTime":1625.502,"endTime":1627.202,"body":"My friends knew my job, kept me on the"},{"startTime":1627.216,"endTime":1629.602,"body":"road, so they gave me plenty of lead time."},{"startTime":1629.736,"endTime":1632.854,"body":"So I jealously guarded that weekend, of course, the day"},{"startTime":1632.892,"endTime":1636.082,"body":"before I was scheduled to fly out, I got a"},{"startTime":1636.096,"endTime":1639.754,"body":"phone call from the Special Agent in Charge, john The"},{"startTime":1639.792,"endTime":1642.826,"body":"Sac of the FBI New York Field Office."},{"startTime":1643.008,"endTime":1644.518,"body":"He asked me if I could swing by the"},{"startTime":1644.544,"endTime":1647.47,"body":"office to meet the Assistant Director and his entourage"},{"startTime":1648.51,"endTime":1650.366,"body":"prior to my flight because they had a bunch"},{"startTime":1650.378,"endTime":1652.99,"body":"of questions about my new best friend, Chiheb."},{"startTime":1653.61,"endTime":1656.734,"body":"Now, we had this meeting, and during this"},{"startTime":1656.772,"endTime":1661.19,"body":"meeting, the Assistant Director of CESUs basically dismissed"},{"startTime":1661.25,"endTime":1665.29,"body":"all of our interpretations, all of our observations,"},{"startTime":1665.67,"endTime":1667.56,"body":"not in a disrespectful way."},{"startTime":1669.21,"endTime":1673.394,"body":"He was convinced that he was just a lost"},{"startTime":1673.442,"endTime":1675.602,"body":"soul and that he did not pose a threat."},{"startTime":1675.746,"endTime":1679.31,"body":"So after we explained to him what the Jahadin mindset"},{"startTime":1679.37,"endTime":1683.314,"body":"was, what the jihadi mindset was, who we believed he"},{"startTime":1683.352,"endTime":1689.122,"body":"was, he basically said, yeah, okay, we know for a"},{"startTime":1689.136,"endTime":1691.75,"body":"fact that he's going fishing this weekend."},{"startTime":1692.13,"endTime":1694.222,"body":"We just wanted to get some insight into the"},{"startTime":1694.236,"endTime":1696.29,"body":"people he was going to meet in Toronto."},{"startTime":1696.47,"endTime":1698.794,"body":"Now, we just got done telling him"},{"startTime":1698.832,"endTime":1701.458,"body":"that jihadis don't take a break."},{"startTime":1701.604,"endTime":1704.066,"body":"Everything they do is to serve a purpose."},{"startTime":1704.138,"endTime":1705.254,"body":"While they are in the Western"},{"startTime":1705.302,"endTime":1707.71,"body":"world, that purpose is jihad."},{"startTime":1709.99,"endTime":1713.238,"body":"I'm from Jersey, so I don't know Canadian geography."},{"startTime":1713.334,"endTime":1713.63,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1713.68,"endTime":1717.074,"body":"So I didn't know that Toronto was"},{"startTime":1717.112,"endTime":1721.37,"body":"a six hour drive from Montreal. That's a long way."},{"startTime":1721.42,"endTime":1722.21,"body":"Yes, it is."},{"startTime":1722.26,"endTime":1725.222,"body":"And Ralph, whatever professionalism I had left at"},{"startTime":1725.236,"endTime":1726.782,"body":"that point went out the window and the"},{"startTime":1726.796,"endTime":1728.234,"body":"Arab and me came out a little bit."},{"startTime":1728.272,"endTime":1731.006,"body":"And I was definitely a lot louder than I needed to be."},{"startTime":1731.128,"endTime":1733.54,"body":"I said, Let me put it to you this way."},{"startTime":1734.17,"endTime":1737.558,"body":"Stopping all conversation in a room, it was"},{"startTime":1737.584,"endTime":1739.19,"body":"like you could hear a pin drop."},{"startTime":1740.11,"endTime":1743.102,"body":"If I ask anybody in this room, anybody at all,"},{"startTime":1743.176,"endTime":1745.322,"body":"if you had any plans this weekend, even if you"},{"startTime":1745.336,"endTime":1748.9,"body":"didn't have anything firm, you all have something."},{"startTime":1749.53,"endTime":1751.182,"body":"Some of you might be going on vacation."},{"startTime":1751.266,"endTime":1752.93,"body":"I'm going away in about an hour."},{"startTime":1753.04,"endTime":1755.678,"body":"This is how normal people live their lives."},{"startTime":1755.764,"endTime":1756.678,"body":"They take breaks."},{"startTime":1756.714,"endTime":1758.15,"body":"They travel for pleasure."},{"startTime":1758.83,"endTime":1760.718,"body":"Chiheb does not take a break."},{"startTime":1760.804,"endTime":1762.33,"body":"He does not take a vacation."},{"startTime":1762.45,"endTime":1766.446,"body":"Everything he does is for the sole purpose of jihad."},{"startTime":1766.578,"endTime":1770.39,"body":"There is no way he is going to travel 6 hours."},{"startTime":1770.5,"endTime":1772.442,"body":"One way to cast a line with"},{"startTime":1772.456,"endTime":1774.64,"body":"an old Muslim buddy to catch up."},{"startTime":1775.45,"endTime":1777.054,"body":"Yeah, dead silence."},{"startTime":1777.102,"endTime":1779.462,"body":"After I did that, people didn't know whether to"},{"startTime":1779.476,"endTime":1781.358,"body":"shit or go blind because there's some crazy guy"},{"startTime":1781.384,"endTime":1784.42,"body":"in shorts and flip flops yelling at him."},{"startTime":1785.71,"endTime":1788.018,"body":"Every American in that room agreed with me, and"},{"startTime":1788.044,"endTime":1790.358,"body":"every American was trying to say the same thing."},{"startTime":1790.384,"endTime":1792.098,"body":"But of course they were much more polished than I"},{"startTime":1792.124,"endTime":1794.45,"body":"was, and we're trying to avoid an international incident."},{"startTime":1797.99,"endTime":1802.64,"body":"The assistant director gave me the hand and said"},{"startTime":1803.21,"endTime":1805.182,"body":"and looked to the sac and said, we know"},{"startTime":1805.196,"endTime":1807.598,"body":"for a fact that he's going fishing this weekend."},{"startTime":1807.754,"endTime":1809.478,"body":"The area in Toronto he's going to"},{"startTime":1809.504,"endTime":1811.77,"body":"is a very popular fishing destination."},{"startTime":1812.81,"endTime":1814.47,"body":"They even rented a boat."},{"startTime":1814.79,"endTime":1816.058,"body":"He didn't finish his sentence."},{"startTime":1816.094,"endTime":1817.374,"body":"I popped out of my seat, said"},{"startTime":1817.412,"endTime":1818.61,"body":"goodbye to my team and left."},{"startTime":1818.66,"endTime":1821.334,"body":"Now, I hoped and prayed that the Canadians got"},{"startTime":1821.372,"endTime":1823.258,"body":"this one right and that no one got hurt."},{"startTime":1823.354,"endTime":1827.034,"body":"But I decided we've done all we could, right?"},{"startTime":1827.072,"endTime":1828.762,"body":"I'm not going to argue with these guys."},{"startTime":1828.896,"endTime":1830.214,"body":"It's their country, it's their"},{"startTime":1830.252,"endTime":1831.75,"body":"target, it's their threat."},{"startTime":1832.43,"endTime":1834.654,"body":"Obviously we have the American piece of it,"},{"startTime":1834.692,"endTime":1836.874,"body":"but we can only do so much because"},{"startTime":1836.912,"endTime":1838.77,"body":"of the fact that he was in Canada."},{"startTime":1839.27,"endTime":1841.75,"body":"A couple of days later, ralph I was on the beach."},{"startTime":1841.87,"endTime":1843.69,"body":"The only phone I had on left"},{"startTime":1843.74,"endTime":1846.334,"body":"on was ringing off the hook."},{"startTime":1846.382,"endTime":1848.24,"body":"It was Nellie, the case agent."},{"startTime":1848.57,"endTime":1850.842,"body":"He couldn't tell me much on an open line, but"},{"startTime":1850.856,"endTime":1854.082,"body":"he said that the fishing trip was nefarious and that"},{"startTime":1854.096,"endTime":1856.22,"body":"I needed to get home as soon as possible."},{"startTime":1856.85,"endTime":1858.618,"body":"And that's when I caught the next flight home"},{"startTime":1858.644,"endTime":1860.322,"body":"and found out that the fishing trip was a"},{"startTime":1860.336,"endTime":1863.014,"body":"recon mission and the target was a train bridge."},{"startTime":1863.062,"endTime":1864.738,"body":"And the plot was to brillow up a"},{"startTime":1864.764,"endTime":1867.33,"body":"train from New York City to Toronto."},{"startTime":1869.85,"endTime":1873.178,"body":"Labor Day Weekend 2012 when members of"},{"startTime":1873.204,"endTime":1877.834,"body":"the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS, were"},{"startTime":1877.872,"endTime":1879.838,"body":"convinced that she was going on a"},{"startTime":1879.864,"endTime":1883.57,"body":"fishing trip to Toronto, tamar was skeptical."},{"startTime":1884.07,"endTime":1886.882,"body":"He knew that Jihad did nothing that didn't support"},{"startTime":1886.956,"endTime":1890.474,"body":"the cause of Jihad, certainly not a fishing trip"},{"startTime":1890.522,"endTime":1893.45,"body":"that involved a twelve hour drive back and forth"},{"startTime":1893.51,"endTime":1895.93,"body":"from his modest apartment in Montreal."},{"startTime":1896.25,"endTime":1898.522,"body":"It turned out Tamer was right."},{"startTime":1898.656,"endTime":1901.138,"body":"The real purpose of Chiheb's trip was to"},{"startTime":1901.164,"endTime":1904.02,"body":"recon a train bridge for a terrorist attack,"},{"startTime":1904.59,"endTime":1908.51,"body":"specifically the welltraveled via rail line that carried"},{"startTime":1908.57,"endTime":1911.17,"body":"passengers from New York City to Toronto."},{"startTime":1911.79,"endTime":1914.338,"body":"The plan was to cut a five meter hole in"},{"startTime":1914.364,"endTime":1918.238,"body":"the track with jackhammers, causing the train to derail and"},{"startTime":1918.264,"endTime":1922.57,"body":"plunge into the gorge below, thus killing all the passengers."},{"startTime":1923.37,"endTime":1927.554,"body":"Intercepted communications from overseas proved that Chiheb"},{"startTime":1927.602,"endTime":1929.686,"body":"was getting his instructions from high level"},{"startTime":1929.748,"endTime":1932.278,"body":"Al Qaeda leaders, all of whom were"},{"startTime":1932.304,"endTime":1934.56,"body":"on the FBI's most wanted list."},{"startTime":1935.07,"endTime":1939.298,"body":"Both the FBI and CSIS were convinced that the"},{"startTime":1939.324,"endTime":1942.398,"body":"attack was scheduled to take place on the 11th"},{"startTime":1942.434,"endTime":1946.32,"body":"anniversary of 911, which was only weeks away."},{"startTime":1946.83,"endTime":1948.73,"body":"The clock was ticking."},{"startTime":1949.05,"endTime":1951.06,"body":"Tamer had to work fast."},{"startTime":1952.77,"endTime":1954.818,"body":"The crazy part about it is, Ralph,"},{"startTime":1954.854,"endTime":1957.61,"body":"at that moment it was early September."},{"startTime":1958.17,"endTime":1961.858,"body":"Based on what CESAs the Canadian CIA saw and"},{"startTime":1961.884,"endTime":1964.718,"body":"heard that Labor Day weekend, they believed the threat"},{"startTime":1964.754,"endTime":1968.89,"body":"was imminent because the bad guys used the words."},{"startTime":1969.0,"endTime":1970.426,"body":"Anniversary attack."},{"startTime":1970.608,"endTime":1972.382,"body":"They thought this was going to"},{"startTime":1972.396,"endTime":1975.874,"body":"be a 911 anniversary attack? Yeah."},{"startTime":1975.912,"endTime":1977.678,"body":"So at this point, they had no choice"},{"startTime":1977.834,"endTime":1979.85,"body":"but to turn this over to the RCMP."},{"startTime":1979.91,"endTime":1982.738,"body":"Finally, they walked into their office that"},{"startTime":1982.764,"endTime":1984.682,"body":"Sunday night, labor day weekend, and said,"},{"startTime":1984.816,"endTime":1986.174,"body":"this guy is a terrorist."},{"startTime":1986.282,"endTime":1987.43,"body":"Meaning Chiheb Esseghaier."},{"startTime":1988.41,"endTime":1990.358,"body":"He's planning an attack very soon."},{"startTime":1990.444,"endTime":1992.242,"body":"Remember, they couldn't tell much Ralph at"},{"startTime":1992.256,"endTime":1993.66,"body":"that point because of that wall."},{"startTime":1994.17,"endTime":1995.774,"body":"These are his friends in Montreal,"},{"startTime":1995.882,"endTime":1997.502,"body":"these are his friends in Toronto."},{"startTime":1997.586,"endTime":2000.198,"body":"And, oh, by the way, his best friend is"},{"startTime":2000.224,"endTime":2002.742,"body":"an undercover FBI agent out of New York City."},{"startTime":2002.876,"endTime":2005.002,"body":"And that guy is a dick."},{"startTime":2005.146,"endTime":2007.462,"body":"I may have lived that last part, but I'm"},{"startTime":2007.486,"endTime":2009.358,"body":"pretty sure that's what they said after the meeting"},{"startTime":2009.394,"endTime":2010.966,"body":"I had with him a few days earlier."},{"startTime":2011.098,"endTime":2015.778,"body":"And your legend was created very skillfully"},{"startTime":2015.934,"endTime":2018.606,"body":"to make you very attractive to him."},{"startTime":2018.728,"endTime":2019.89,"body":"How was that done?"},{"startTime":2020.0,"endTime":2022.234,"body":"Well, the first thing I do is a deep"},{"startTime":2022.282,"endTime":2026.24,"body":"dive into their personal beliefs, who they are."},{"startTime":2027.35,"endTime":2030.006,"body":"A lot of times in these classified documents that we"},{"startTime":2030.068,"endTime":2033.978,"body":"talked about earlier, Ralph, is nothing in there is going"},{"startTime":2034.004,"endTime":2036.79,"body":"to help me make a human connection with my subjects."},{"startTime":2036.91,"endTime":2038.67,"body":"None of that stuff matters to me."},{"startTime":2038.78,"endTime":2040.52,"body":"I want to know what they're doing"},{"startTime":2040.97,"endTime":2042.79,"body":"when they're not being a jihadi."},{"startTime":2042.91,"endTime":2045.094,"body":"Their likes, their dislikes, their good habits."},{"startTime":2045.142,"endTime":2045.774,"body":"They're bad ones."},{"startTime":2045.812,"endTime":2050.166,"body":"They're vices that he thinks no one knows about"},{"startTime":2050.348,"endTime":2052.818,"body":"because I need to make my legend tailor made"},{"startTime":2052.964,"endTime":2056.202,"body":"for them so that they picked me."},{"startTime":2056.335,"endTime":2059.094,"body":"And what was your legend? Who were you?"},{"startTime":2059.192,"endTime":2064.949,"body":"Tamer Elnoury was a real estate mogul that after"},{"startTime":2065.06,"endTime":2070.69,"body":"the death of his mother, became radicalized by a fake"},{"startTime":2070.75,"endTime":2074.873,"body":"uncle who was a small real estate guy."},{"startTime":2074.911,"endTime":2079.038,"body":"In Tamer Elnoury's connection and knowledge of American"},{"startTime":2079.123,"endTime":2082.565,"body":"culture and business led him and his company"},{"startTime":2082.628,"endTime":2085.434,"body":"to be the big company that it was."},{"startTime":2085.592,"endTime":2087.282,"body":"And Tamer Elnoury and the Al"},{"startTime":2087.295,"endTime":2090.489,"body":"Noury investment group were financial supporters"},{"startTime":2090.55,"endTime":2092.697,"body":"of the Mujahideen brothers overseas."},{"startTime":2092.853,"endTime":2094.469,"body":"That was all. Exactly."},{"startTime":2094.58,"endTime":2095.777,"body":"That's what he needed."},{"startTime":2095.864,"endTime":2097.71,"body":"That's what he wanted at the time, was"},{"startTime":2097.76,"endTime":2100.602,"body":"someone who saw the world through his eyes"},{"startTime":2100.736,"endTime":2104.074,"body":"and had a grudge against his enemy."},{"startTime":2104.182,"endTime":2106.182,"body":"And we served it up to him on a"},{"startTime":2106.196,"endTime":2109.47,"body":"platter and had money and access to money. Exactly."},{"startTime":2109.58,"endTime":2111.402,"body":"And access to the entire"},{"startTime":2111.476,"endTime":2114.92,"body":"planet because of his reputation. Right."},{"startTime":2115.31,"endTime":2118.602,"body":"Which was something that he needed. Correct?"},{"startTime":2118.676,"endTime":2119.094,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2119.132,"endTime":2120.38,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":2120.71,"endTime":2124.35,"body":"Okay, so now your focus changes. Right."},{"startTime":2124.4,"endTime":2127.566,"body":"Everybody wants you to stick to this guy"},{"startTime":2127.688,"endTime":2131.25,"body":"and find out how advanced this plot is"},{"startTime":2131.42,"endTime":2134.66,"body":"and how it's going to be carried out. Yeah."},{"startTime":2134.99,"endTime":2137.238,"body":"Well, after the case got dumped to the"},{"startTime":2137.264,"endTime":2141.26,"body":"RCMP, they called us immediately for help."},{"startTime":2141.89,"endTime":2145.27,"body":"Now, they agreed to afford me the same protections"},{"startTime":2145.33,"endTime":2147.006,"body":"in Canada that I have here in the states."},{"startTime":2147.068,"endTime":2148.52,"body":"So we dove right in."},{"startTime":2148.91,"endTime":2152.42,"body":"Now, there was some good news and some bad news."},{"startTime":2152.81,"endTime":2155.194,"body":"The good news is I was able to get on target"},{"startTime":2155.242,"endTime":2159.75,"body":"pretty quickly, and we were able to identify everyone involved."},{"startTime":2160.37,"endTime":2162.102,"body":"It turns out that anniversary that"},{"startTime":2162.116,"endTime":2164.61,"body":"they were talking about wasn't 911."},{"startTime":2165.29,"endTime":2166.678,"body":"It was Christmas."},{"startTime":2166.834,"endTime":2169.83,"body":"Jesus Christ's birthday in Arabic. Ralph."},{"startTime":2170.45,"endTime":2172.858,"body":"Birthday and anniversary are synonymous."},{"startTime":2172.954,"endTime":2173.922,"body":"So there was a little bit"},{"startTime":2173.936,"endTime":2178.04,"body":"of a misunderstanding by CSIS there."},{"startTime":2178.97,"endTime":2181.878,"body":"We had everything we needed to arrest everyone"},{"startTime":2181.964,"endTime":2185.046,"body":"involved by the end of September 2012."},{"startTime":2185.168,"endTime":2188.9,"body":"Even multiple overt acts, as you saw in the video"},{"startTime":2189.23,"endTime":2192.102,"body":"before, the surveillance video of us doing a recon of"},{"startTime":2192.116,"endTime":2195.32,"body":"the train tracks after I became embedded in the cell."},{"startTime":2195.77,"endTime":2197.934,"body":"So now you're thinking, why did this"},{"startTime":2197.972,"endTime":2201.414,"body":"case drag on for almost another year?"},{"startTime":2201.572,"endTime":2204.33,"body":"But that's the bad news, Ralph."},{"startTime":2205.79,"endTime":2210.558,"body":"During this investigation, on a drive from Toronto to"},{"startTime":2210.584,"endTime":2213.654,"body":"Montreal, she had revealed to me that there was"},{"startTime":2213.692,"endTime":2217.602,"body":"another Al Qaeda operative sent to the United States"},{"startTime":2217.796,"endTime":2220.878,"body":"right before she had was sent to Canada, there"},{"startTime":2220.904,"endTime":2223.46,"body":"was an American sleeper cell."},{"startTime":2223.91,"endTime":2226.122,"body":"And that's everything."},{"startTime":2226.196,"endTime":2228.14,"body":"Our worst nightmare. Exactly."},{"startTime":2228.53,"endTime":2231.87,"body":"So how does this change your mission?"},{"startTime":2232.43,"endTime":2235.986,"body":"Well, the only connection to that threat was"},{"startTime":2236.048,"endTime":2239.47,"body":"Chiheb Esseghaier and his Al Qaeda handlers overseas."},{"startTime":2239.59,"endTime":2241.71,"body":"So we needed to keep the app going until"},{"startTime":2241.76,"endTime":2243.87,"body":"we could get a lead on this American cell."},{"startTime":2244.04,"endTime":2246.502,"body":"We needed to have Chiheb orchestrate a meeting"},{"startTime":2246.526,"endTime":2249.082,"body":"with this American sleeper through his Al Qaeda"},{"startTime":2249.106,"endTime":2252.486,"body":"contacts overseas, which, of course, as you know"},{"startTime":2252.548,"endTime":2255.066,"body":"from Al Qaeda's playbook, that was no easy"},{"startTime":2255.128,"endTime":2257.538,"body":"task because we were simply asking them to"},{"startTime":2257.564,"endTime":2260.73,"body":"break their number one rule compartmentalization."},{"startTime":2261.17,"endTime":2264.114,"body":"And meanwhile, as you're spending more time with"},{"startTime":2264.152,"endTime":2268.222,"body":"him, you're seeing sort of the plot unfold"},{"startTime":2268.306,"endTime":2270.846,"body":"in Canada in terms of the bridge attack."},{"startTime":2271.028,"endTime":2274.174,"body":"And that takes some very interesting twists"},{"startTime":2274.222,"endTime":2277.7,"body":"and turns, to say the least."},{"startTime":2278.33,"endTime":2280.278,"body":"And you end up on a sort of a"},{"startTime":2280.304,"endTime":2284.91,"body":"scouting mission with him and another gentleman, a Palestinian."},{"startTime":2285.35,"endTime":2288.26,"body":"Can you tell us about that? Yes."},{"startTime":2288.83,"endTime":2293.25,"body":"So the other individual involved in this train"},{"startTime":2293.3,"endTime":2298.222,"body":"plot was Raed Jaser, a Palestinian who's lived"},{"startTime":2298.246,"endTime":2299.9,"body":"in Toronto most of his life."},{"startTime":2300.83,"endTime":2303.702,"body":"So I got introduced to him, rather,"},{"startTime":2303.776,"endTime":2306.2,"body":"and I was brought into the cell."},{"startTime":2306.59,"endTime":2309.906,"body":"And we were brothers and arms at this point,"},{"startTime":2310.028,"endTime":2313.7,"body":"and we were planning towards the Christmas train attack."},{"startTime":2314.69,"endTime":2317.142,"body":"But obviously now we had"},{"startTime":2317.336,"endTime":2319.81,"body":"two tentacles of this investigation."},{"startTime":2319.87,"endTime":2322.482,"body":"For lack of a better word, we have the American end"},{"startTime":2322.496,"endTime":2325.82,"body":"of it, and then we had the Canadian end of it."},{"startTime":2326.39,"endTime":2331.71,"body":"Now, to essentially wrap up the Canadian part of it"},{"startTime":2331.76,"endTime":2334.786,"body":"in a nutshell, is they had everything they needed, Ralph."},{"startTime":2334.918,"endTime":2336.162,"body":"They were done."},{"startTime":2336.296,"endTime":2339.294,"body":"They didn't need this case to go on any longer."},{"startTime":2339.392,"endTime":2341.778,"body":"They had everybody ready to go and ready to"},{"startTime":2341.804,"endTime":2344.96,"body":"be arrested, and they wanted it done now."},{"startTime":2345.47,"endTime":2348.526,"body":"In their defense, they were spending time, money, resources,"},{"startTime":2348.598,"endTime":2351.73,"body":"energy to keep the case going for our sake,"},{"startTime":2351.79,"endTime":2355.29,"body":"our benefit of trying to identify the American sleeper."},{"startTime":2355.67,"endTime":2357.282,"body":"But if you look at it"},{"startTime":2357.296,"endTime":2358.782,"body":"from their perspective, it made sense."},{"startTime":2358.856,"endTime":2361.446,"body":"Like, how much leeway would we have given them?"},{"startTime":2361.628,"endTime":2363.942,"body":"So we had all kinds of issues, as"},{"startTime":2363.956,"endTime":2366.258,"body":"you pointed out, and we were able to"},{"startTime":2366.284,"endTime":2372.438,"body":"successfully delay the Christmas train attack indefinitely, and"},{"startTime":2372.464,"endTime":2374.082,"body":"I was already embedded in the cell."},{"startTime":2374.156,"endTime":2378.018,"body":"So at this point, anything that was going to"},{"startTime":2378.044,"endTime":2379.278,"body":"happen, I was going to know about it."},{"startTime":2379.304,"endTime":2381.594,"body":"So now we could focus all our"},{"startTime":2381.632,"endTime":2384.142,"body":"efforts on identifying the American sleeper."},{"startTime":2384.166,"endTime":2386.6,"body":"So we did a full court press on that"},{"startTime":2388.79,"endTime":2390.93,"body":"on a trip to Montreal, which you have."},{"startTime":2390.98,"endTime":2395.058,"body":"In early September 2012, when Tamer learned that the"},{"startTime":2395.084,"endTime":2397.738,"body":"train attack was scheduled to take place on Christmas"},{"startTime":2397.774,"endTime":2401.66,"body":"Day, he also found out some very important things."},{"startTime":2402.23,"endTime":2405.258,"body":"One, that she had received his terrorist training from"},{"startTime":2405.284,"endTime":2408.462,"body":"an Al Qaeda operative in Iran who he called"},{"startTime":2408.536,"endTime":2412.87,"body":"Almasul, but whose real name was Muhammad Alrayal."},{"startTime":2413.05,"endTime":2415.398,"body":"One of the four terrorists who had hijacked Pan"},{"startTime":2415.424,"endTime":2420.62,"body":"Am Flight 73 from Paris to Pakistan in 1986."},{"startTime":2421.25,"endTime":2425.13,"body":"Two jihad had received direct communications from the man"},{"startTime":2425.18,"endTime":2428.338,"body":"who is currently leading Al Qaeda and had succeeded"},{"startTime":2428.374,"endTime":2433.65,"body":"Osama bin Laden Egyptian born Doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri"},{"startTime":2428.374,"endTime":2433.65,"body":"."},{"startTime":2434.03,"endTime":2437.11,"body":"Three, that Shaheb had recruited another radical"},{"startTime":2437.17,"endTime":2441.198,"body":"Islamist, a Palestinian named Ray Josser, to"},{"startTime":2441.224,"endTime":2443.25,"body":"help him carry out the train attack."},{"startTime":2443.42,"endTime":2446.814,"body":"And fourth, and most alarming, that Chiheb had"},{"startTime":2446.852,"endTime":2449.218,"body":"information that there was an Al Qaeda terrorist"},{"startTime":2449.254,"endTime":2451.82,"body":"cell operating in the United States."},{"startTime":2453.89,"endTime":2456.378,"body":"Every single jihadi that I've ever come"},{"startTime":2456.404,"endTime":2459.646,"body":"across all have their own personal gripes."},{"startTime":2459.838,"endTime":2464.814,"body":"And sometimes when the body is shifting a certain way"},{"startTime":2464.852,"endTime":2467.058,"body":"and it doesn't fit the mold of who you want"},{"startTime":2467.084,"endTime":2470.062,"body":"to kill or how you want to kill them, that's"},{"startTime":2470.086,"endTime":2472.29,"body":"where all of that starts to break down."},{"startTime":2472.34,"endTime":2473.982,"body":"And yes, believe it or not, that is a"},{"startTime":2473.996,"endTime":2477.414,"body":"huge advantage to us that they're not that has"},{"startTime":2477.452,"endTime":2482.254,"body":"organized that way because everything they have, everything they're"},{"startTime":2482.302,"endTime":2486.142,"body":"doing is built on personal hatred and agendas."},{"startTime":2486.286,"endTime":2492.318,"body":"And his interest was more like he"},{"startTime":2492.344,"endTime":2495.166,"body":"wanted to launch sniper attacks in Canada."},{"startTime":2495.238,"endTime":2496.35,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":2496.46,"endTime":2500.538,"body":"Which seems bizarre, but he had his"},{"startTime":2500.564,"endTime":2503.934,"body":"own perspective on the whole situation based"},{"startTime":2503.972,"endTime":2505.678,"body":"on the fact that he was Palestinian."},{"startTime":2505.774,"endTime":2506.766,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":2506.828,"endTime":2510.642,"body":"And he just wanted to target certain people and"},{"startTime":2510.776,"endTime":2513.37,"body":"for certain reasons and they were all his reasons."},{"startTime":2513.49,"endTime":2516.622,"body":"Meanwhile, Chiheb was taking orders from overseas."},{"startTime":2516.766,"endTime":2520.27,"body":"In his mind, his attacks took precedence."},{"startTime":2520.39,"endTime":2522.97,"body":"Can you tell us about the incident on the bridge"},{"startTime":2523.03,"endTime":2526.434,"body":"itself where you're there with these two men and then"},{"startTime":2526.592,"endTime":2530.358,"body":"kind of how that leads to this, like, falling out? Yes."},{"startTime":2530.504,"endTime":2535.1,"body":"So we were doing a recon on the bridge and"},{"startTime":2535.73,"endTime":2540.126,"body":"Chiheb was inspecting the bridge and Jasper was all in,"},{"startTime":2540.188,"endTime":2542.914,"body":"he was taking videos, he was inspecting the bridge."},{"startTime":2542.962,"endTime":2546.294,"body":"But Jaser was more concerned with"},{"startTime":2546.332,"endTime":2548.814,"body":"getting caught than sheb was."},{"startTime":2548.852,"endTime":2550.64,"body":"In Chiheb's mind."},{"startTime":2551.03,"endTime":2552.51,"body":"Who cares if the cops come?"},{"startTime":2552.56,"endTime":2554.358,"body":"Who cares if the government sees us?"},{"startTime":2554.444,"endTime":2557.226,"body":"At the end of the day, they can never prove anything."},{"startTime":2557.288,"endTime":2559.134,"body":"And all that matters to me is"},{"startTime":2559.172,"endTime":2561.594,"body":"executing this mission, then come find me."},{"startTime":2561.692,"endTime":2565.918,"body":"Whereas Jaser wanted to continue to do these attacks"},{"startTime":2565.954,"endTime":2568.99,"body":"from a distance so that he wasn't caught."},{"startTime":2569.05,"endTime":2573.87,"body":"So there was the initial crack in the foundation."},{"startTime":2575.09,"endTime":2578.502,"body":"So then, of course, because we were on an area"},{"startTime":2578.576,"endTime":2586.542,"body":"that was blocked off to civilian traffic, someone called the"},{"startTime":2586.556,"endTime":2589.086,"body":"police after the train conductor almost killed us."},{"startTime":2589.148,"endTime":2589.882,"body":"On the bridge."},{"startTime":2589.966,"endTime":2591.166,"body":"That was pretty scary."},{"startTime":2591.298,"endTime":2592.64,"body":"Yes, it was."},{"startTime":2593.63,"endTime":2597.094,"body":"And we ended up getting felony car stopped"},{"startTime":2597.142,"endTime":2600.042,"body":"in the parking lot right there and then."},{"startTime":2600.236,"endTime":2602.014,"body":"Chiheb could give two shits."},{"startTime":2602.062,"endTime":2604.182,"body":"He's like, it's a bump on the road."},{"startTime":2604.256,"endTime":2607.198,"body":"We're on the path that we are traveling."},{"startTime":2607.294,"endTime":2610.266,"body":"Jaser got spooked and said, we need to do my things."},{"startTime":2610.388,"endTime":2612.114,"body":"So that she has said, we're not doing"},{"startTime":2612.152,"endTime":2613.71,"body":"your things until we do my things."},{"startTime":2613.76,"endTime":2617.958,"body":"So at that moment in time, I could tell there"},{"startTime":2617.984,"endTime":2620.874,"body":"was going to be a fracture between the two guys."},{"startTime":2621.032,"endTime":2625.11,"body":"And I had a tactical and strategic decision to make."},{"startTime":2625.22,"endTime":2626.526,"body":"Who do I side with?"},{"startTime":2626.648,"endTime":2629.298,"body":"I could side with Jaser and identify all"},{"startTime":2629.324,"endTime":2631.314,"body":"the people in Toronto that he was going"},{"startTime":2631.352,"endTime":2634.75,"body":"to recruit at this compound to create monsters."},{"startTime":2634.87,"endTime":2638.182,"body":"Or I could side with Chiheb"},{"startTime":2638.326,"endTime":2642.394,"body":"and get to the American sleeper."},{"startTime":2642.562,"endTime":2643.818,"body":"It was a no brainer at that"},{"startTime":2643.844,"endTime":2646.374,"body":"point because surveillance was already set up."},{"startTime":2646.532,"endTime":2648.778,"body":"Jaser and Chiheb were both under arrest."},{"startTime":2648.814,"endTime":2650.178,"body":"They just didn't know it yet."},{"startTime":2650.324,"endTime":2653.358,"body":"So at the end of the day, leaving Jasser, where he"},{"startTime":2653.384,"endTime":2657.582,"body":"was under 24/7 surveillance by the RCMP was the right play."},{"startTime":2657.716,"endTime":2660.798,"body":"And siding with Chiheb to help identify our"},{"startTime":2660.824,"endTime":2663.846,"body":"threat was the only move I had."},{"startTime":2663.968,"endTime":2666.982,"body":"Okay, and then what happens with Chiheb?"},{"startTime":2667.126,"endTime":2669.706,"body":"So we were able to successfully delay"},{"startTime":2669.718,"endTime":2673.278,"body":"the Christmas train attack now indefinitely. Right."},{"startTime":2673.364,"endTime":2677.398,"body":"So I invited Chiheb to New York City Christmas"},{"startTime":2677.434,"endTime":2684.078,"body":"Week 2012, under the ruse of having him help"},{"startTime":2684.104,"endTime":2687.39,"body":"me send money to the Mujahideen brothers overseas."},{"startTime":2687.95,"endTime":2692.442,"body":"The money ruse worked brilliantly and Chiheb, now"},{"startTime":2692.516,"endTime":2695.634,"body":"Ralph was convinced more than ever of the"},{"startTime":2695.672,"endTime":2698.254,"body":"benefit of combining these two cells, the Canadian"},{"startTime":2698.302,"endTime":2699.858,"body":"cell and the American cell."},{"startTime":2700.004,"endTime":2703.078,"body":"Now we needed him to convince his handlers."},{"startTime":2703.234,"endTime":2705.018,"body":"So of course, when you're reaching out to"},{"startTime":2705.044,"endTime":2706.902,"body":"Al Qaeda senior leadership, you can't just pick"},{"startTime":2706.916,"endTime":2708.342,"body":"up the phone or send an email."},{"startTime":2708.476,"endTime":2710.178,"body":"That's much more complicated than that."},{"startTime":2710.204,"endTime":2713.218,"body":"And it took time, but that week we got the ball"},{"startTime":2713.254,"endTime":2715.626,"body":"in motion and now all we could do was wait."},{"startTime":2715.748,"endTime":2717.834,"body":"And the New York trip was"},{"startTime":2717.932,"endTime":2721.326,"body":"important for another reason as well. Right."},{"startTime":2721.448,"endTime":2723.118,"body":"Isn't this the point where Chiheb"},{"startTime":2723.154,"endTime":2725.014,"body":"was going to travel overseas?"},{"startTime":2725.182,"endTime":2727.134,"body":"Yes, that's exactly right."},{"startTime":2727.292,"endTime":2733.218,"body":"So basically the Canadians got word, we found out, and"},{"startTime":2733.244,"endTime":2735.774,"body":"we knew this as well, that Chiheb was planning to"},{"startTime":2735.812,"endTime":2740.134,"body":"travel to Singapore for another conference and another recruiting mission"},{"startTime":2740.182,"endTime":2744.582,"body":"by Al Qaeda the Christmas week that year."},{"startTime":2744.716,"endTime":2746.982,"body":"And the Canadians basically said, you have until"},{"startTime":2747.056,"endTime":2750.658,"body":"then to figure out who the American sleeper"},{"startTime":2750.694,"endTime":2753.37,"body":"is because we're arresting him at the airport."},{"startTime":2753.55,"endTime":2755.586,"body":"We can let him leave. Exactly."},{"startTime":2755.708,"endTime":2757.422,"body":"They were not letting their golden goose leave"},{"startTime":2757.436,"endTime":2758.742,"body":"the country, and I don't blame them."},{"startTime":2758.816,"endTime":2759.86,"body":"Yeah, I don't either."},{"startTime":2761.45,"endTime":2762.98,"body":"It makes perfect sense."},{"startTime":2764.03,"endTime":2770.71,"body":"So the Christmas week in New York was crucial"},{"startTime":2770.83,"endTime":2774.042,"body":"in order to divert him from Singapore and get"},{"startTime":2774.056,"endTime":2777.258,"body":"the ball in motion to have him see the"},{"startTime":2777.284,"endTime":2778.93,"body":"benefit of combining these two cells."},{"startTime":2778.99,"endTime":2781.098,"body":"And you did it in a brilliant way."},{"startTime":2781.184,"endTime":2783.054,"body":"Can you explain that? Sure."},{"startTime":2783.212,"endTime":2787.194,"body":"So we basically told him that I needed his"},{"startTime":2787.232,"endTime":2789.378,"body":"help, and he's one of the few people I"},{"startTime":2789.404,"endTime":2792.354,"body":"trusted with this significant amount of money to send"},{"startTime":2792.392,"endTime":2794.794,"body":"this money to the Mujahideen brothers overseas."},{"startTime":2794.902,"endTime":2798.73,"body":"This was December Ralph, 2012, if you recall."},{"startTime":2798.79,"endTime":2800.526,"body":"The Arab Spring was happening."},{"startTime":2800.708,"endTime":2803.25,"body":"Every government in the Middle East was upside down."},{"startTime":2803.3,"endTime":2806.67,"body":"Banks were shut down, the streets were a disaster."},{"startTime":2807.11,"endTime":2811.122,"body":"And I told him that My uncle said the"},{"startTime":2811.136,"endTime":2814.1,"body":"Mujahideen brothers needed money to fight the fight."},{"startTime":2814.73,"endTime":2817.23,"body":"He dropped everything and came to New York."},{"startTime":2817.28,"endTime":2819.046,"body":"And we invited the Canadians to keep an eye"},{"startTime":2819.058,"endTime":2823.58,"body":"on their golden goose and watch the show."},{"startTime":2824.15,"endTime":2826.482,"body":"So, yes, we were able to bring them down."},{"startTime":2826.556,"endTime":2829.938,"body":"And now I had to convince FBI executive management of giving"},{"startTime":2830.024,"endTime":2833.094,"body":"me 250,000 in cash to put in a terrorist hands."},{"startTime":2833.192,"endTime":2835.506,"body":"But that's the story for another day."},{"startTime":2835.628,"endTime":2836.54,"body":"It works."},{"startTime":2838.95,"endTime":2841.978,"body":"Following the trip to Toronto, timer had to"},{"startTime":2842.004,"endTime":2844.234,"body":"decide whether or not to ally himself with"},{"startTime":2844.272,"endTime":2846.514,"body":"Chiheb, who wanted to go ahead with the"},{"startTime":2846.552,"endTime":2849.638,"body":"train attack, or Raed jaser, whose goal"},{"startTime":2849.674,"endTime":2853.43,"body":"was to launch sniper attacks against individual targets."},{"startTime":2853.55,"endTime":2856.058,"body":"Tamer chose Chiheb because of his links"},{"startTime":2856.094,"endTime":2858.442,"body":"to Al Qaeda leadership and the US."},{"startTime":2858.516,"endTime":2859.5,"body":"Sleeper cell."},{"startTime":2860.19,"endTime":2864.262,"body":"In October 2012, Chiheb introduced Tamer to another"},{"startTime":2864.336,"endTime":2867.518,"body":"one of his radical Islamic friends, a fellow"},{"startTime":2867.554,"endTime":2872.186,"body":"Tunisian and nuclear engineering student named Ahmed Abasi,"},{"startTime":2872.318,"endTime":2875.138,"body":"who was living in Quebec City and planning"},{"startTime":2875.174,"endTime":2878.04,"body":"an attack against Times Square in New York."},{"startTime":2878.43,"endTime":2881.858,"body":"As Tamer spent more time with Chiheb, he observed"},{"startTime":2881.894,"endTime":2884.278,"body":"that he could be kind and selfless when he"},{"startTime":2884.304,"endTime":2888.06,"body":"wasn't in jihadi mode and talking about murdering people"},{"startTime":2888.51,"endTime":2891.574,"body":"as a good Muslim, Tamer questioned whether or not"},{"startTime":2891.612,"endTime":2894.502,"body":"he had an obligation to try to save him."},{"startTime":2894.696,"endTime":2897.25,"body":"He turned to his father for advice."},{"startTime":2898.89,"endTime":2901.082,"body":"About a month, it was right around Thanksgiving."},{"startTime":2901.106,"endTime":2902.854,"body":"It was about a month before she had"},{"startTime":2902.892,"endTime":2906.058,"body":"got to New York City, before everything that"},{"startTime":2906.084,"endTime":2908.026,"body":"happened in New York that week happened."},{"startTime":2908.208,"endTime":2911.498,"body":"But I called my father, and obviously I can't"},{"startTime":2911.534,"endTime":2914.254,"body":"speak to anyone, especially when the case was still"},{"startTime":2914.292,"endTime":2918.12,"body":"ongoing or anything that's classified about anything specific."},{"startTime":2918.45,"endTime":2920.542,"body":"But I called my dad, and he asked me,"},{"startTime":2920.556,"endTime":2922.678,"body":"he kept hounding me, what's going on with you?"},{"startTime":2922.704,"endTime":2923.82,"body":"You don't see him yourself?"},{"startTime":2924.15,"endTime":2925.282,"body":"So I simply asked him."},{"startTime":2925.296,"endTime":2927.838,"body":"I said, let's say there's somebody out"},{"startTime":2927.864,"endTime":2931.81,"body":"there, dad, that is destroying our religion."},{"startTime":2932.13,"endTime":2936.182,"body":"He is of the mindset that killing"},{"startTime":2936.266,"endTime":2937.738,"body":"is the right thing to do in"},{"startTime":2937.764,"endTime":2940.39,"body":"response to everything that's happening overseas."},{"startTime":2940.89,"endTime":2943.942,"body":"And he said, Listen, I have no idea where you go, I"},{"startTime":2943.956,"endTime":2949.44,"body":"have no idea what you do, but always take this to heart."},{"startTime":2950.13,"endTime":2955.078,"body":"Anyone that feels using Islam as a"},{"startTime":2955.104,"endTime":2957.83,"body":"weapon is not a true Muslim."},{"startTime":2958.01,"endTime":2959.498,"body":"That is not Islam."},{"startTime":2959.654,"endTime":2961.418,"body":"It is a religion of peace,"},{"startTime":2961.574,"endTime":2964.154,"body":"judgment, and things of that nature."},{"startTime":2964.262,"endTime":2968.83,"body":"And he went on and on, is God's work, not ours."},{"startTime":2969.27,"endTime":2972.754,"body":"He said, Our job is to forgive our job."},{"startTime":2972.852,"endTime":2976.32,"body":"God praises you more and gives you more credit."},{"startTime":2977.13,"endTime":2979.142,"body":"It loses a little translation from Arabic"},{"startTime":2979.166,"endTime":2981.66,"body":"to English, but gives you more credit."},{"startTime":2982.35,"endTime":2987.454,"body":"If you forgive, you forget, and you do well by others."},{"startTime":2987.612,"endTime":2988.462,"body":"It's that simple."},{"startTime":2988.536,"endTime":2992.918,"body":"And it wasn't that I was feeling sorry for Chiheb"},{"startTime":2992.954,"endTime":2998.99,"body":"in any way, seeing what he had to offer humanity."},{"startTime":2999.17,"endTime":3002.986,"body":"I mean, the work that he was doing, his thesis,"},{"startTime":3003.118,"endTime":3007.278,"body":"being world renowned for saving human lives and at the"},{"startTime":3007.304,"endTime":3011.48,"body":"same time planning the deaths of thousands of innocent people."},{"startTime":3012.59,"endTime":3014.898,"body":"It didn't compute. Exactly. Yeah."},{"startTime":3014.924,"endTime":3016.878,"body":"He was clearly a broken man."},{"startTime":3017.024,"endTime":3020.874,"body":"Okay, so now there's another important person"},{"startTime":3020.972,"endTime":3025.326,"body":"enters the story at around this point. Yes."},{"startTime":3025.448,"endTime":3027.45,"body":"Can you talk a little bit about that? Sure."},{"startTime":3027.62,"endTime":3030.814,"body":"This other individual, his name is Ahmed Abbasi."},{"startTime":3030.922,"endTime":3035.334,"body":"I had met him initially in October, about"},{"startTime":3035.372,"endTime":3038.794,"body":"a month after the train recon incident."},{"startTime":3038.902,"endTime":3042.202,"body":"I met him in Quebec City, and she had known"},{"startTime":3042.226,"endTime":3045.57,"body":"him for a few years now, also a Tunisian national"},{"startTime":3046.31,"endTime":3053.12,"body":"studying some sort of nuclear engineering program there."},{"startTime":3054.11,"endTime":3060.45,"body":"He was very intelligent and very savvy,"},{"startTime":3060.83,"endTime":3065.394,"body":"and his extreme hatred was specific not"},{"startTime":3065.432,"endTime":3068.686,"body":"towards the west, not towards any atrocities."},{"startTime":3068.758,"endTime":3072.79,"body":"It was towards us Americans, period."},{"startTime":3072.97,"endTime":3076.602,"body":"Everything that he wanted to do in the world"},{"startTime":3076.796,"endTime":3081.56,"body":"of jihadi terrorism was towards the United States."},{"startTime":3083.91,"endTime":3087.718,"body":"He was someone that we knew from the get go, from the"},{"startTime":3087.744,"endTime":3091.93,"body":"day that I met him, was a different kind of evil."},{"startTime":3092.25,"endTime":3094.514,"body":"And like I said, his name is Ahmed Abasi."},{"startTime":3094.622,"endTime":3098.17,"body":"And we needed to focus on him as well because"},{"startTime":3098.22,"endTime":3101.28,"body":"of the threat that he posed to our security."},{"startTime":3102.09,"endTime":3105.154,"body":"So now you're managing both of these men."},{"startTime":3105.252,"endTime":3108.182,"body":"Didn't Abasi recruit Chiheb?"},{"startTime":3108.326,"endTime":3112.318,"body":"Yes, abasi was the one that turned him to"},{"startTime":3112.344,"endTime":3114.322,"body":"the dark side, for lack of a better word,"},{"startTime":3114.456,"endTime":3116.462,"body":"when she'd had when I mentioned to you earlier"},{"startTime":3116.546,"endTime":3119.77,"body":"in this podcast that he was a lost soul."},{"startTime":3120.09,"endTime":3123.898,"body":"He met Abasi at a conference in Quebec, and"},{"startTime":3123.924,"endTime":3126.818,"body":"Abbasi noticed that he was leaving to go pray."},{"startTime":3126.974,"endTime":3128.674,"body":"And then he put his arm around him,"},{"startTime":3128.712,"endTime":3130.294,"body":"and he filled his head with all these"},{"startTime":3130.332,"endTime":3132.998,"body":"things, and he basically told him, you're missing"},{"startTime":3133.034,"endTime":3135.842,"body":"the most important pillar of Islam, jihad."},{"startTime":3135.926,"endTime":3137.534,"body":"Which isn't a pillar of Islam."},{"startTime":3137.582,"endTime":3139.274,"body":"Ralph there's only five pillars."},{"startTime":3139.322,"endTime":3142.858,"body":"The 6th pillar is a very jihadi thing to"},{"startTime":3142.884,"endTime":3145.258,"body":"say, and he built that into his head, and"},{"startTime":3145.284,"endTime":3148.894,"body":"he guided him into this world before she had"},{"startTime":3148.932,"endTime":3152.76,"body":"dropped everything and flew to Iran for training."},{"startTime":3154.47,"endTime":3156.958,"body":"I don't know if you knew this or you"},{"startTime":3156.984,"endTime":3160.63,"body":"would assume that Abbasi was also in touch with"},{"startTime":3160.68,"endTime":3163.106,"body":"Al Qaeda leadership in the Middle East."},{"startTime":3163.238,"endTime":3166.738,"body":"He was definitely speaking to certain folks that were all"},{"startTime":3166.764,"endTime":3171.322,"body":"red flags, but I do not believe that he was"},{"startTime":3171.396,"endTime":3177.79,"body":"trying to become more in their midst, actively recruiting himself"},{"startTime":3178.11,"endTime":3181.702,"body":"to be more in the Mix, as opposed to Chiheb, who"},{"startTime":3181.716,"endTime":3184.642,"body":"was already trained and launched towards us."},{"startTime":3184.776,"endTime":3187.678,"body":"So, yes, he had the same ideas, the"},{"startTime":3187.704,"endTime":3190.75,"body":"same ideology, but he wanted the longer play."},{"startTime":3190.86,"endTime":3192.478,"body":"He wanted the long game, and"},{"startTime":3192.504,"endTime":3196.69,"body":"Chiheb wanted to attack immediately. Okay."},{"startTime":3196.86,"endTime":3200.986,"body":"And this developed into two operations right."},{"startTime":3201.048,"endTime":3203.278,"body":"That they were planning. Correct."},{"startTime":3203.424,"endTime":3207.01,"body":"So Abasi wanted to essentially start"},{"startTime":3207.06,"endTime":3208.92,"body":"recruiting people here in the US."},{"startTime":3209.43,"endTime":3212.878,"body":"That he may have known from different online"},{"startTime":3212.964,"endTime":3214.642,"body":"forums and so on and so forth in"},{"startTime":3214.656,"endTime":3218.71,"body":"an effort to create his own sell here."},{"startTime":3218.88,"endTime":3223.198,"body":"Whereas Chiheb Esseghaier said, OK, you do your thing, even though"},{"startTime":3223.284,"endTime":3227.878,"body":"he was disgusted by it, because he felt that they"},{"startTime":3227.904,"endTime":3230.76,"body":"should be answering to Al Qaeda's in your leadership now."},{"startTime":3231.87,"endTime":3235.654,"body":"So they both arrived in New York City"},{"startTime":3235.692,"endTime":3238.63,"body":"to visit with me in March of 2013."},{"startTime":3239.37,"endTime":3241.61,"body":"I spent several weeks on target"},{"startTime":3241.67,"endTime":3243.494,"body":"with both Chiheb and Abbasi."},{"startTime":3243.542,"endTime":3247.85,"body":"And towards the end of that, I was exhausted mentally,"},{"startTime":3247.91,"endTime":3251.702,"body":"physically, because it was literally a ton of jihadi bitch"},{"startTime":3251.726,"endTime":3254.782,"body":"fighting and all that mattered to me at this point."},{"startTime":3254.916,"endTime":3256.558,"body":"And again, the investigation was going"},{"startTime":3256.584,"endTime":3257.774,"body":"in so many different directions."},{"startTime":3257.822,"endTime":3259.874,"body":"There were so many moving parts, but none"},{"startTime":3259.982,"endTime":3262.882,"body":"to me or to us, our entire team,"},{"startTime":3262.956,"endTime":3266.23,"body":"more important than identifying the American Sleeper."},{"startTime":3266.55,"endTime":3270.106,"body":"So I had to placate both of them and talk a"},{"startTime":3270.108,"endTime":3274.91,"body":"little bit about your effort, because you had to obviously push"},{"startTime":3275.09,"endTime":3279.698,"body":"prod him to reveal the identity of the American Sleeper."},{"startTime":3279.794,"endTime":3281.23,"body":"How are you able to do that?"},{"startTime":3281.28,"endTime":3283.046,"body":"Or what was your strategy?"},{"startTime":3283.178,"endTime":3285.938,"body":"So, first and foremost, the money ruse"},{"startTime":3286.034,"endTime":3288.874,"body":"from Christmas was a huge help."},{"startTime":3289.032,"endTime":3292.558,"body":"Chiheb realized at that moment, even though he knew"},{"startTime":3292.584,"endTime":3295.45,"body":"it, he had seen or he had heard, okay,"},{"startTime":3295.5,"endTime":3297.794,"body":"that I was supporting the Mujahideen brothers overseas."},{"startTime":3297.842,"endTime":3300.226,"body":"But now he saw it, he felt it."},{"startTime":3300.288,"endTime":3302.678,"body":"He was an active participant in sending"},{"startTime":3302.714,"endTime":3305.28,"body":"a quarter million dollars to the cause"},{"startTime":3305.61,"endTime":3308.05,"body":"them through Tamer ElNori and his team."},{"startTime":3308.22,"endTime":3311.194,"body":"So that in and of itself convinced him to"},{"startTime":3311.232,"endTime":3313.322,"body":"start the process with reaching out to Al Qaeda"},{"startTime":3313.346,"endTime":3316.15,"body":"senior leadership to ask to combine the two cells."},{"startTime":3317.07,"endTime":3320.278,"body":"Now, the fact that I showed my loyalty to"},{"startTime":3320.304,"endTime":3327.218,"body":"him over all others, Jasser's team in Toronto, Abasi's"},{"startTime":3327.254,"endTime":3331.978,"body":"team, he then believed at that point the play"},{"startTime":3332.124,"endTime":3334.802,"body":"was to get a meeting with the American sleeper."},{"startTime":3334.886,"endTime":3337.054,"body":"And I prodded him and I coached him"},{"startTime":3337.092,"endTime":3340.222,"body":"through the different forms of communication to Al"},{"startTime":3340.236,"endTime":3342.43,"body":"Qaeda's senior leadership and his handlers."},{"startTime":3342.75,"endTime":3345.67,"body":"And as I mentioned to you, this was all taken"},{"startTime":3345.72,"endTime":3347.71,"body":"place while I had them both in New York City."},{"startTime":3347.76,"endTime":3350.806,"body":"So I had to placate Abbasi because we needed"},{"startTime":3350.928,"endTime":3353.954,"body":"the evil that was in him to be exposed."},{"startTime":3354.122,"endTime":3356.254,"body":"So it all came to a head."},{"startTime":3356.292,"endTime":3359.77,"body":"Ralph, before we get to that, what was Abbasi planning?"},{"startTime":3360.09,"endTime":3365.374,"body":"Abbasi wanted to create a bacteria, because of"},{"startTime":3365.412,"endTime":3370.438,"body":"his engineering skills and his scientific background, to"},{"startTime":3370.464,"endTime":3375.538,"body":"place in several different water supplies throughout the"},{"startTime":3375.564,"endTime":3378.418,"body":"United States, specifically in the tri state area."},{"startTime":3378.504,"endTime":3381.934,"body":"Initially, that would be able to bypass all."},{"startTime":3382.092,"endTime":3384.598,"body":"It was like an invisible virus, if you will, like"},{"startTime":3384.624,"endTime":3388.582,"body":"a synthetic one that none of the computers would be"},{"startTime":3388.596,"endTime":3392.158,"body":"able to pick up that would essentially kill hundreds of"},{"startTime":3392.184,"endTime":3395.29,"body":"thousands of people, anyone using that water supply."},{"startTime":3395.97,"endTime":3401.038,"body":"That was his plan to develop, in addition to the"},{"startTime":3401.064,"endTime":3407.53,"body":"nuclear end of it, of being able to essentially break"},{"startTime":3407.58,"endTime":3410.76,"body":"down some of our nuclear reactors from within."},{"startTime":3411.09,"endTime":3414.662,"body":"He wanted to wipe our country off the map and you've"},{"startTime":3414.686,"endTime":3417.982,"body":"got to listen to this and nod your head, right?"},{"startTime":3418.116,"endTime":3419.914,"body":"Yeah, I got to do more than nod my head."},{"startTime":3419.952,"endTime":3423.202,"body":"Sometimes I have to show because a lot of"},{"startTime":3423.216,"endTime":3425.458,"body":"times when they're coming up with these plots and"},{"startTime":3425.484,"endTime":3429.01,"body":"plans, your knee jerk reaction as an American in"},{"startTime":3429.06,"endTime":3433.682,"body":"New York City, you're on hallowed ground, you're steps"},{"startTime":3433.706,"endTime":3437.638,"body":"away from where 911 happened, you got to keep"},{"startTime":3437.664,"endTime":3439.582,"body":"it together, and you have to show almost that"},{"startTime":3439.596,"endTime":3442.394,"body":"you have a level of fervor with these plans."},{"startTime":3442.502,"endTime":3444.134,"body":"I can never be the driving force."},{"startTime":3444.182,"endTime":3445.102,"body":"I never was."},{"startTime":3445.236,"endTime":3446.578,"body":"I have to be a sounding board."},{"startTime":3446.604,"endTime":3448.562,"body":"But at the same time, I had to be supportive."},{"startTime":3448.646,"endTime":3451.126,"body":"So it was a very delicate balance. Wow."},{"startTime":3451.248,"endTime":3452.17,"body":"Incredible."},{"startTime":3452.55,"endTime":3455.7,"body":"And at a certain point, you kind of lose it, right?"},{"startTime":3456.39,"endTime":3457.38,"body":"Well, yes."},{"startTime":3459.03,"endTime":3462.31,"body":"The emotional twists and turns that you have to take"},{"startTime":3462.36,"endTime":3467.59,"body":"and the pressure that you're under must get so intense."},{"startTime":3468.15,"endTime":3469.018,"body":"It does."},{"startTime":3469.164,"endTime":3472.174,"body":"And it's a shame, because the incident you're referring to,"},{"startTime":3472.212,"endTime":3478.178,"body":"ralph I'm not very proud of it, but I'll tell"},{"startTime":3478.204,"endTime":3480.974,"body":"you, it was when she had was in New York"},{"startTime":3481.012,"endTime":3484.922,"body":"City that Christmas week, back in 2012, I took him"},{"startTime":3484.936,"endTime":3488.682,"body":"to see Times Square for some sightseeing."},{"startTime":3488.706,"endTime":3490.166,"body":"It was his first time in New York."},{"startTime":3490.348,"endTime":3492.794,"body":"Now, naturally, he didn't see Times"},{"startTime":3492.832,"endTime":3494.642,"body":"Square like any other farmer would."},{"startTime":3494.776,"endTime":3496.898,"body":"He saw it as an opportunity to"},{"startTime":3496.924,"endTime":3499.43,"body":"kill and create mayhem in terror."},{"startTime":3499.87,"endTime":3503.642,"body":"I watched his Al Qaeda training taking over."},{"startTime":3503.836,"endTime":3506.898,"body":"I fielded questions about New York City security protocols,"},{"startTime":3506.934,"endTime":3508.706,"body":"pretending not to know why he was asking."},{"startTime":3508.828,"endTime":3510.726,"body":"We all knew where this was headed."},{"startTime":3510.918,"endTime":3512.322,"body":"So, of course, a couple of nights"},{"startTime":3512.346,"endTime":3514.202,"body":"later, we're downtown near the apartment he"},{"startTime":3514.216,"endTime":3516.64,"body":"was staying, we're going for a walk."},{"startTime":3517.27,"endTime":3520.238,"body":"He stopped right in front of the Freedom Tower, and"},{"startTime":3520.264,"endTime":3523.238,"body":"he put his arm around me, and while rubbing his"},{"startTime":3523.264,"endTime":3528.35,"body":"beard, he said, Tamer, this town needs another 911, and"},{"startTime":3528.4,"endTime":3530.02,"body":"we're going to give it to them."},{"startTime":3530.71,"endTime":3532.406,"body":"And I lost it."},{"startTime":3532.468,"endTime":3534.854,"body":"Ralph yeah, that's a lot."},{"startTime":3534.952,"endTime":3536.414,"body":"That was a lot, I guess."},{"startTime":3536.572,"endTime":3538.158,"body":"Listen, I'm not making any excuses."},{"startTime":3538.194,"endTime":3540.554,"body":"I'm a professional undercover, and it's my"},{"startTime":3540.592,"endTime":3542.462,"body":"job to put my personal feelings but"},{"startTime":3542.476,"endTime":3544.13,"body":"you're a human being, too, right?"},{"startTime":3544.24,"endTime":3545.954,"body":"Not at that moment, not at that"},{"startTime":3545.992,"endTime":3549.206,"body":"night, but it was 20 deg outside."},{"startTime":3549.268,"endTime":3551.166,"body":"I felt like I was sweating."},{"startTime":3551.358,"endTime":3554.738,"body":"And he invited me upstairs to his apartment so"},{"startTime":3554.764,"endTime":3556.766,"body":"he could tell me about his plan to place"},{"startTime":3556.828,"endTime":3560.966,"body":"multiple IEDs throughout Time Square to kill thousands of"},{"startTime":3561.028,"endTime":3563.87,"body":"innocent people while standing at that location."},{"startTime":3564.55,"endTime":3566.702,"body":"So, needless to say, I shoved him off of"},{"startTime":3566.716,"endTime":3568.878,"body":"me and pretended that's something I ate earlier didn't"},{"startTime":3568.914,"endTime":3572.162,"body":"agree with me, and I left him standing there."},{"startTime":3572.296,"endTime":3574.458,"body":"I know I spooked him that night, but worse"},{"startTime":3574.494,"endTime":3578.558,"body":"than that, that night I was worried that because"},{"startTime":3578.704,"endTime":3581.642,"body":"I wasn't a professional undercover, that I thought I"},{"startTime":3581.656,"endTime":3584.63,"body":"blew our chance at identifying the American sleeper because"},{"startTime":3584.68,"endTime":3586.374,"body":"I was getting too emotional."},{"startTime":3586.542,"endTime":3588.83,"body":"But thankfully for the case, the next"},{"startTime":3588.88,"endTime":3591.314,"body":"morning, I was able to recreate that"},{"startTime":3591.352,"endTime":3593.474,"body":"conversation, and I got everything the US."},{"startTime":3593.512,"endTime":3596.066,"body":"Attorney wanted on this new plot and then some"},{"startTime":3596.248,"endTime":3598.96,"body":"over bagels and coffee in his apartment that morning."},{"startTime":3599.89,"endTime":3602.39,"body":"But, yeah, that was a low point for me professionally."},{"startTime":3604.51,"endTime":3608.298,"body":"In early December 2012, as Tamar and Chiheb stood"},{"startTime":3608.334,"endTime":3610.878,"body":"in front of the new Freedom Tower and Chiheb"},{"startTime":3610.914,"endTime":3614.034,"body":"announced that New York City needed another major terrorist"},{"startTime":3614.082,"endTime":3617.586,"body":"attack, tamar struggled not to break character."},{"startTime":3617.778,"endTime":3620.68,"body":"Despite his training, this was too much to take."},{"startTime":3621.07,"endTime":3623.45,"body":"He was facing a man who was talking about"},{"startTime":3623.5,"endTime":3626.8,"body":"killing innocent Americans like it was no big deal."},{"startTime":3627.25,"endTime":3629.762,"body":"In Tamer's words, he was spitting in the"},{"startTime":3629.776,"endTime":3632.822,"body":"eyes of God and talking about doing something"},{"startTime":3632.956,"endTime":3635.93,"body":"that was in complete violation of the Quran."},{"startTime":3636.55,"endTime":3639.866,"body":"Tamer had to take a break, at least for one night."},{"startTime":3640.048,"endTime":3642.698,"body":"Later, he realized he had no choice but"},{"startTime":3642.724,"endTime":3645.158,"body":"to pull himself together and focus on the"},{"startTime":3645.184,"endTime":3647.99,"body":"goal of finding the American Sleeper."},{"startTime":3649.87,"endTime":3653.654,"body":"At this point, communication with Al Qaeda was"},{"startTime":3653.692,"endTime":3657.398,"body":"moving slowly, and there was still no lead. Right."},{"startTime":3657.484,"endTime":3664.37,"body":"But thankfully, it was about mid April 2013."},{"startTime":3665.95,"endTime":3667.778,"body":"Remember I Was Entertaining Chiheb And"},{"startTime":3667.804,"endTime":3669.34,"body":"Abasi in New York City."},{"startTime":3669.91,"endTime":3672.486,"body":"Chiheb went to another scientific conference in San"},{"startTime":3672.498,"endTime":3675.002,"body":"Francisco, and Abbasi and I flew out to"},{"startTime":3675.016,"endTime":3677.622,"body":"Las Vegas together to meet with a jihadi"},{"startTime":3677.646,"endTime":3680.08,"body":"friend, a potential recruit of his."},{"startTime":3681.07,"endTime":3683.56,"body":"But that weekend, Ralph, finally,"},{"startTime":3684.07,"endTime":3685.9,"body":"the stars aligned for us."},{"startTime":3687.91,"endTime":3689.898,"body":"I was out to dinner with the bad guys in Vegas."},{"startTime":3689.934,"endTime":3692.714,"body":"When she had called me, I stepped out to take his call."},{"startTime":3692.812,"endTime":3694.458,"body":"He was excited and out of breath."},{"startTime":3694.494,"endTime":3696.254,"body":"He couldn't wait to tell me."},{"startTime":3696.412,"endTime":3698.994,"body":"Al Qaeda senior leadership agreed"},{"startTime":3699.162,"endTime":3700.97,"body":"to combine the two cells."},{"startTime":3701.65,"endTime":3704.162,"body":"They invited Chiheb and me to Dubai for a"},{"startTime":3704.176,"endTime":3707.09,"body":"meeting for the introduction to the American sleeper."},{"startTime":3707.71,"endTime":3709.634,"body":"They never reveal that information over"},{"startTime":3709.672,"endTime":3711.138,"body":"any medium that could be intercepted."},{"startTime":3711.174,"endTime":3712.6,"body":"It had to be in person."},{"startTime":3712.93,"endTime":3716.354,"body":"But, Ralph, after almost a year of hard"},{"startTime":3716.392,"endTime":3718.922,"body":"work by all of us, it worked."},{"startTime":3718.996,"endTime":3721.442,"body":"I was one flight away from getting all"},{"startTime":3721.456,"endTime":3723.446,"body":"the answers we worked so hard for."},{"startTime":3723.628,"endTime":3727.962,"body":"So you're excited, you're preparing to fly to Dubai, you're"},{"startTime":3727.986,"endTime":3730.754,"body":"going to actually meet the guy in person, right? Yes."},{"startTime":3730.852,"endTime":3731.63,"body":"This was it."},{"startTime":3731.68,"endTime":3737.518,"body":"Ralph I mean, that light at the end of the tunnel"},{"startTime":3737.554,"endTime":3740.982,"body":"that we were all looking at for a freaking year? Yeah."},{"startTime":3741.176,"endTime":3742.698,"body":"You're not going to just get a name."},{"startTime":3742.784,"endTime":3745.374,"body":"You're going to actually meet the guy. Exactly."},{"startTime":3745.472,"endTime":3746.562,"body":"And you're going to meet Al"},{"startTime":3746.576,"endTime":3749.36,"body":"Qaeda senior leadership as well, right? Exactly."},{"startTime":3749.87,"endTime":3750.666,"body":"It was huge."},{"startTime":3750.728,"endTime":3752.322,"body":"At that moment, as soon as I hung up"},{"startTime":3752.336,"endTime":3755.19,"body":"with you, my mind was already in Dubai."},{"startTime":3756.05,"endTime":3757.986,"body":"But I still had to deal with these two idiots in"},{"startTime":3757.988,"endTime":3761.706,"body":"Vegas, one of which Abasi, we had an arrest warrant for."},{"startTime":3761.888,"endTime":3765.258,"body":"So I wrapped up my meetings and"},{"startTime":3765.284,"endTime":3766.698,"body":"drove directly to the safe house."},{"startTime":3766.724,"endTime":3769.938,"body":"Chiheb canceled the rest of his conference and"},{"startTime":3769.964,"endTime":3771.462,"body":"flew back to Montreal to wait for me"},{"startTime":3771.476,"endTime":3773.12,"body":"so we could fly to Dubai together."},{"startTime":3774.29,"endTime":3777.834,"body":"I drove to that safe house in Vegas so fast, I"},{"startTime":3777.872,"endTime":3780.654,"body":"couldn't wait to meet with my team, because I knew they"},{"startTime":3780.692,"endTime":3783.342,"body":"had to be excited and bouncing off the walls, because I"},{"startTime":3783.356,"endTime":3785.78,"body":"knew they just heard the conversation I had with you."},{"startTime":3786.29,"endTime":3788.758,"body":"But when I got there, Ralph, the mood"},{"startTime":3788.794,"endTime":3792.13,"body":"in that safe house was anything but exciting."},{"startTime":3792.31,"endTime":3793.29,"body":"Excitement?"},{"startTime":3793.85,"endTime":3795.38,"body":"Quite the opposite, actually."},{"startTime":3796.07,"endTime":3797.6,"body":"We ran out of time."},{"startTime":3798.53,"endTime":3801.978,"body":"The Boston Marathon bombing happened, and even though that had"},{"startTime":3802.004,"endTime":3806.274,"body":"nothing to do with our case, that was that made"},{"startTime":3806.312,"endTime":3808.798,"body":"everyone nervous on both sides of the border."},{"startTime":3808.954,"endTime":3812.29,"body":"That, coupled with the fact that the Canadians were adamant"},{"startTime":3812.35,"endTime":3816.678,"body":"they will not let Chiheb overseas, even with me, and"},{"startTime":3816.704,"endTime":3820.078,"body":"a bunch of other politics between the two countries, led"},{"startTime":3820.114,"endTime":3822.222,"body":"to the shutdown of this case before we could get"},{"startTime":3822.236,"endTime":3825.558,"body":"a lead on the American sleeper. Wow. Yeah."},{"startTime":3825.644,"endTime":3826.714,"body":"We were devastated."},{"startTime":3826.822,"endTime":3829.222,"body":"So Chiheb Esseghaier is arrested, Abasi"},{"startTime":3829.246,"endTime":3833.226,"body":"is arrested, Jaser arrested. Yes."},{"startTime":3833.348,"endTime":3837.198,"body":"And the Canadians basically just"},{"startTime":3837.224,"endTime":3839.394,"body":"pull the trigger, right? Yeah."},{"startTime":3839.552,"endTime":3842.874,"body":"They allowed me and Abbasi to fly back"},{"startTime":3842.912,"endTime":3846.99,"body":"to New York, and on April 22, 2013,"},{"startTime":3847.43,"endTime":3849.682,"body":"arrests were made and search warrants were executed"},{"startTime":3849.706,"endTime":3853.126,"body":"simultaneously in New York, Toronto, and Montreal."},{"startTime":3853.258,"endTime":3859.11,"body":"I was also arrested for show with Abasi upon our"},{"startTime":3859.22,"endTime":3863.17,"body":"arrival back from Las Vegas at JFK, were you privy"},{"startTime":3863.23,"endTime":3865.47,"body":"to I mean, there must have been a lot of"},{"startTime":3865.58,"endTime":3870.366,"body":"words exchanged between Canadian and American officials over this."},{"startTime":3870.488,"endTime":3871.098,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3871.244,"endTime":3873.082,"body":"This was during the Obama administration."},{"startTime":3873.166,"endTime":3875.79,"body":"Our case was briefed daily after the revelation of the"},{"startTime":3875.84,"endTime":3882.246,"body":"American sleeper to the White House, and President Obama sent"},{"startTime":3882.428,"endTime":3885.006,"body":"the Attorney General at the time, Eric Holder, to meet"},{"startTime":3885.068,"endTime":3889.854,"body":"with Canadian officials, and they were able to buy us"},{"startTime":3889.892,"endTime":3892.114,"body":"some time and get us off of certain trips."},{"startTime":3892.162,"endTime":3894.74,"body":"But at this point, at this moment,"},{"startTime":3898.17,"endTime":3899.798,"body":"none of us really could argue."},{"startTime":3899.894,"endTime":3902.258,"body":"After the tragedy that took place in Boston,"},{"startTime":3902.294,"endTime":3905.518,"body":"the Boston Marathon bombing, and now we were"},{"startTime":3905.544,"endTime":3908.374,"body":"playing around with a handful of terrorists in"},{"startTime":3908.412,"endTime":3911.83,"body":"two countries, no one wanted to see this"},{"startTime":3911.88,"endTime":3914.474,"body":"go any further, and they wanted everyone arrested."},{"startTime":3914.522,"endTime":3915.31,"body":"I understand."},{"startTime":3915.48,"endTime":3917.374,"body":"Executive management's position. Yeah."},{"startTime":3917.412,"endTime":3918.622,"body":"I mean, one of them could"},{"startTime":3918.636,"endTime":3921.118,"body":"have easily slipped through your absolutely."},{"startTime":3921.264,"endTime":3924.79,"body":"And done something horrible, and then everybody"},{"startTime":3924.9,"endTime":3928.262,"body":"would have been called on the carpet. No doubt."},{"startTime":3928.346,"endTime":3932.71,"body":"And so now the trials take place"},{"startTime":3932.76,"endTime":3936.85,"body":"in Canada, and you have to testify. Yes."},{"startTime":3937.02,"endTime":3938.7,"body":"Were you prepared for this?"},{"startTime":3939.03,"endTime":3940.38,"body":"No, of course not."},{"startTime":3940.83,"endTime":3944.458,"body":"As I mentioned earlier, Ralph, everything I've ever done"},{"startTime":3944.484,"endTime":3946.402,"body":"in the world of counterterrorism will never see the"},{"startTime":3946.416,"endTime":3948.562,"body":"light of day, and that's by design."},{"startTime":3948.756,"endTime":3954.322,"body":"And when these two, Chiheb and Jasser, decided to take me to"},{"startTime":3954.336,"endTime":3957.6,"body":"the hoop, that was a game changer for all of us."},{"startTime":3957.93,"endTime":3959.65,"body":"And what was that like for you?"},{"startTime":3959.7,"endTime":3962.362,"body":"That must have been not only is your"},{"startTime":3962.436,"endTime":3965.302,"body":"identity going to be revealed, but now you"},{"startTime":3965.316,"endTime":3967.514,"body":"have to face these two guys in court."},{"startTime":3967.682,"endTime":3971.422,"body":"Well, thankfully, my identity was protected because the"},{"startTime":3971.436,"endTime":3973.354,"body":"Canadians did agree to afford me the same"},{"startTime":3973.392,"endTime":3975.118,"body":"protections as we have here in the States."},{"startTime":3975.204,"endTime":3977.542,"body":"So they jumped through the same hoops that would"},{"startTime":3977.556,"endTime":3979.68,"body":"have happened if I was testifying in the US."},{"startTime":3980.07,"endTime":3981.626,"body":"So I testified."},{"startTime":3981.818,"endTime":3984.098,"body":"The media was shunned from the courtroom."},{"startTime":3984.134,"endTime":3986.362,"body":"When I was there, I testified for three and a"},{"startTime":3986.376,"endTime":3991.62,"body":"half weeks, and the trial prep took several months."},{"startTime":3994.33,"endTime":3999.254,"body":"To me, it wasn't my typical trial, because even"},{"startTime":3999.292,"endTime":4002.206,"body":"though Canada is similar to us, they're not us."},{"startTime":4002.328,"endTime":4004.126,"body":"They have different rules, they have different"},{"startTime":4004.188,"endTime":4008.542,"body":"court rules, they have different everything, right?"},{"startTime":4008.616,"endTime":4011.698,"body":"So I needed to wrap my head around that and"},{"startTime":4011.724,"endTime":4015.154,"body":"understand and use their playbook for when I testified, because"},{"startTime":4015.192,"endTime":4018.538,"body":"there are certain things I can and can't say that"},{"startTime":4018.564,"endTime":4022.14,"body":"would bias the jury, and it's the same thing here."},{"startTime":4022.59,"endTime":4026.16,"body":"So I had to learn that."},{"startTime":4026.49,"endTime":4028.054,"body":"It took me several months to learn"},{"startTime":4028.092,"endTime":4029.938,"body":"that and work with their prosecutors and"},{"startTime":4029.964,"endTime":4032.338,"body":"understand what the trial would look like."},{"startTime":4032.484,"endTime":4036.734,"body":"But thankfully, no one was allowed in the courtroom"},{"startTime":4036.782,"endTime":4039.934,"body":"during my testimony, and the media could hear me,"},{"startTime":4040.032,"endTime":4044.05,"body":"not record me, and not see me. Oh, good."},{"startTime":4044.16,"endTime":4048.226,"body":"So that was a relief for me."},{"startTime":4048.348,"endTime":4054.082,"body":"But the crazy part about this whole thing, Ralph, is"},{"startTime":4054.276,"endTime":4057.79,"body":"after she had got arrested in Montreal on that day,"},{"startTime":4057.96,"endTime":4060.514,"body":"he was immediately transferred to Toronto, where he was being"},{"startTime":4060.552,"endTime":4063.54,"body":"prosecuted and he was interrogated for weeks."},{"startTime":4065.13,"endTime":4066.994,"body":"He protected me at every turn."},{"startTime":4067.092,"endTime":4068.94,"body":"He never once gave me up."},{"startTime":4069.27,"endTime":4071.578,"body":"Even after the government played recordings for"},{"startTime":4071.604,"endTime":4073.69,"body":"him of our most private conversations."},{"startTime":4074.61,"endTime":4076.342,"body":"He assumed they were just trying to trick them"},{"startTime":4076.356,"endTime":4078.214,"body":"and that they found a way to record us."},{"startTime":4078.312,"endTime":4080.782,"body":"It wasn't until about a month later, when he"},{"startTime":4080.796,"endTime":4084.322,"body":"got enough discovery, when he finally realized that I"},{"startTime":4084.336,"endTime":4086.906,"body":"was FBI, that he broke his silence."},{"startTime":4087.098,"endTime":4090.734,"body":"But he didn't break his silence to investigators."},{"startTime":4090.782,"endTime":4091.894,"body":"It was to the media."},{"startTime":4092.052,"endTime":4097.14,"body":"Well, that's a testament to how well you did your job."},{"startTime":4098.069,"endTime":4100.678,"body":"It was a connection that we had, and when you"},{"startTime":4100.703,"endTime":4103.462,"body":"spend that much time with someone doing this sort of"},{"startTime":4103.475,"endTime":4108.142,"body":"thing, no matter what line of work you're in no."},{"startTime":4108.216,"endTime":4110.834,"body":"Well, obviously you were highly"},{"startTime":4110.881,"endTime":4112.56,"body":"skilled at what you did."},{"startTime":4112.89,"endTime":4113.819,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":4114.75,"endTime":4116.16,"body":"Thank God for that."},{"startTime":4116.91,"endTime":4120.05,"body":"Now, there's an interesting part in the trial"},{"startTime":4120.17,"endTime":4123.729,"body":"where you feel that the media is trying"},{"startTime":4123.779,"endTime":4130.113,"body":"to sort of making this about religion, right? Yes."},{"startTime":4130.272,"endTime":4133.546,"body":"So the Canadian security detail,"},{"startTime":4133.608,"endTime":4135.202,"body":"these guys were awesome."},{"startTime":4135.336,"endTime":4138.225,"body":"Just pure SWAT monsters, right?"},{"startTime":4138.408,"endTime":4141.046,"body":"They wouldn't let me go to the bathroom without"},{"startTime":4141.228,"endTime":4144.01,"body":"a couple of their guys in the vicinity."},{"startTime":4144.33,"endTime":4146.398,"body":"So they would take me to and from"},{"startTime":4146.424,"endTime":4148.74,"body":"the safe house while I was testifying there."},{"startTime":4149.49,"endTime":4151.022,"body":"And every night I'd get home, I'd"},{"startTime":4151.046,"endTime":4152.529,"body":"watch the local news or whatever."},{"startTime":4152.58,"endTime":4154.006,"body":"I had nothing else to do."},{"startTime":4154.188,"endTime":4157.417,"body":"And I would see that every media outlet"},{"startTime":4157.514,"endTime":4159.71,"body":"kept referring to it as radical Islam."},{"startTime":4159.77,"endTime":4160.979,"body":"And this was happening."},{"startTime":4161.79,"endTime":4165.022,"body":"There was a media circus surrounding this case."},{"startTime":4165.216,"endTime":4168.66,"body":"And that kind of broke my heart, because"},{"startTime":4169.05,"endTime":4173.698,"body":"the prosecutor's only witness, their main witness, was"},{"startTime":4173.724,"endTime":4177.874,"body":"an undercover Muslim FBI agent who infiltrated their"},{"startTime":4177.912,"endTime":4180.537,"body":"ranks and was testifying against them."},{"startTime":4180.684,"endTime":4184.979,"body":"So I asked the head prosecutor if I could address that."},{"startTime":4185.91,"endTime":4188.913,"body":"He bought at first, but I was able to get it out."},{"startTime":4188.952,"endTime":4192.542,"body":"And I said that we are not at war with Islam."},{"startTime":4192.685,"endTime":4195.478,"body":"That the radical mindset is what"},{"startTime":4195.504,"endTime":4197.534,"body":"we are fighting their agendas."},{"startTime":4197.582,"endTime":4201.37,"body":"They are criminals using a peaceful religion"},{"startTime":4201.87,"endTime":4204.862,"body":"to further whatever political agendas they have."},{"startTime":4205.056,"endTime":4208.358,"body":"And that was when Sheheb lost his mind in the courtroom,"},{"startTime":4208.394,"endTime":4210.298,"body":"and they had to clear the courtroom, and he wanted to"},{"startTime":4210.324,"endTime":4214.56,"body":"address that with me personally, and it was crazy."},{"startTime":4215.25,"endTime":4217.57,"body":"Well, you hit the sore spot there."},{"startTime":4217.62,"endTime":4219.214,"body":"Yes, that was it."},{"startTime":4219.312,"endTime":4223.234,"body":"And that's where the malignancy lies. Right there."},{"startTime":4223.392,"endTime":4224.002,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":4224.136,"endTime":4225.046,"body":"Exactly right there."},{"startTime":4225.108,"endTime":4230.194,"body":"Whatever happened with the American sleeper, it"},{"startTime":4230.232,"endTime":4232.45,"body":"got turned over to the intelligence community,"},{"startTime":4232.56,"endTime":4235.354,"body":"and they're doing the best they can."},{"startTime":4235.392,"endTime":4238.558,"body":"Honestly, at this point, I obviously can't get into"},{"startTime":4238.584,"endTime":4241.678,"body":"the specifics of that, but for all intents and"},{"startTime":4241.704,"endTime":4245.338,"body":"purposes, as far as our case was concerned, that"},{"startTime":4245.364,"endTime":4246.72,"body":"was the one that got away."},{"startTime":4248.85,"endTime":4251.11,"body":"April 23, 2013."},{"startTime":4251.67,"endTime":4254.99,"body":"Two weeks after the Chechenamerican Tsarnaev brothers"},{"startTime":4255.11,"endTime":4257.662,"body":"detonated two homemade pipe bombs near the"},{"startTime":4257.676,"endTime":4260.354,"body":"finish line of the Boston Marathon, killing"},{"startTime":4260.402,"endTime":4263.798,"body":"three people and injuring hundreds, the Canadians"},{"startTime":4263.834,"endTime":4268.346,"body":"arrested Chiheb  Rahed Jasser and Ahmed Abbasi."},{"startTime":4268.478,"endTime":4271.946,"body":"Tamer was relieved, exhausted, and disappointed."},{"startTime":4272.078,"endTime":4276.082,"body":"He had penetrated a very active and potentially lethal Al"},{"startTime":4276.096,"endTime":4279.394,"body":"Qaeda cell in Canada that was planning attacks in both"},{"startTime":4279.432,"endTime":4283.042,"body":"Toronto and New York, and had discovered the existence of"},{"startTime":4283.056,"endTime":4285.42,"body":"an Al Qaeda sleeper cell in the US."},{"startTime":4286.11,"endTime":4288.518,"body":"But he had fallen short of getting Jehib"},{"startTime":4288.554,"endTime":4291.67,"body":"to reveal the identity of the US. Sleeper."},{"startTime":4292.23,"endTime":4294.78,"body":"The Canadians had pulled the trigger first."},{"startTime":4295.47,"endTime":4297.454,"body":"Tamer still had to testify in"},{"startTime":4297.492,"endTime":4300.47,"body":"court where his identity was protected."},{"startTime":4300.65,"endTime":4302.146,"body":"January 2015."},{"startTime":4302.268,"endTime":4305.462,"body":"Chiheb Esseghaier and jaser were found guilty of conspiring"},{"startTime":4305.486,"endTime":4308.354,"body":"to commit murder in association with a terrorist"},{"startTime":4308.402,"endTime":4311.35,"body":"group and sentenced to life in prison."},{"startTime":4312.03,"endTime":4315.95,"body":"Abbasi pled guilty to a lesser charge, and after spending"},{"startTime":4316.01,"endTime":4320.006,"body":"17 months in jail, was deported back to Tunisia."},{"startTime":4320.198,"endTime":4321.946,"body":"Tamer had stopped at least"},{"startTime":4322.008,"endTime":4325.09,"body":"two potentially devastating terrorist attacks."},{"startTime":4325.41,"endTime":4328.63,"body":"He's the epitome of a true patriot."},{"startTime":4329.13,"endTime":4331.438,"body":"He still hasn't revealed his real name,"},{"startTime":4331.584,"endTime":4333.986,"body":"nor does he expect to be celebrated."},{"startTime":4334.178,"endTime":4337.258,"body":"He just wants his fellow Americans to know that"},{"startTime":4337.284,"endTime":4340.778,"body":"there are courageous men and women like himself, including"},{"startTime":4340.814,"endTime":4344.782,"body":"Muslim Americans, who, forsake personal safety, to work in"},{"startTime":4344.796,"endTime":4347.59,"body":"the shadows and keep the rest of us safe."},{"startTime":4347.97,"endTime":4350.81,"body":"We thank Tamar Elnoury for his skill,"},{"startTime":4350.99,"endTime":4353.88,"body":"bravery, and dedication to our country."},{"startTime":4354.27,"endTime":4356.566,"body":"We're deeply honored to call him"},{"startTime":4356.688,"endTime":4359.77,"body":"today's Hero Behind the Headlines."},{"startTime":4360.81,"endTime":4361.982,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"startTime":4362.066,"endTime":4363.902,"body":"I'm your host, Ralph Pezzullo."},{"startTime":4363.986,"endTime":4366.038,"body":"Our producers are Frank Hobbs,"},{"startTime":4366.134,"endTime":4368.41,"body":"Ralph Pezzullo and Apex Media."},{"startTime":4368.52,"endTime":4370.006,"body":"If you haven't already, please"},{"startTime":4370.068,"endTime":4372.674,"body":"download, rate review and subscribe."},{"startTime":4372.782,"endTime":4374.554,"body":"And don't forget to tune into the"},{"startTime":4374.592,"endTime":4377.57,"body":"next episode of Heroes Behind Headlines."}]}