Exploring 2SLGBTQIA+ Health at Mount Royal University

In this conversation, listeners gain insights into the unique challenges and experiences faced by the 2SLGBTQIA+ community within the MRU community.

Our theme song is by Seth Makes Music. 
This podcast is produced by Giulia Ortiz and supported by the Community Podcast Initiative.

 Resources:

Mount Royal University Wellness Services
Call: (403) 440-8877
https://www.mtroyal.ca/CampusServices/WellnessServices/

Pride Centre  (Z211)
Hours of Operation:
Monday to Friday, closed weekends
Fall - Winter 9:00 am to 4:00 pm
Spring - Summer 9:00 am to 4:00 pm
(403) 440 5604

Distress Centre (24 Hour Crisis Line)
Call or text: 403.266.4357
Instant chat: distresscentre.com

Access Mental Health
Call: 403.943.1500
Tollfree: 1.844.943.1500

Student Counselling Services
Call: 403.440.6362
Email: counselling@mtroyal.ca
Website: mru.ca/studentcounselling
Operating Hours: Monday- Friday from 9am- 4pm
Room: U216 Mount Royal University

SAMRU Reception (Z222)
Hours of Operation:
Monday to Friday, closed weekends
Spring - Summer 9:00 am to 4:00 pm
Fall - Winter 8:30 am to 4:30 pm
(403) 440-6077

Stepping Up
mru.ca/steppingup
mru.ca/ddsv

Transcript

Liv Taylor  0:05

Welcome to the Live Well Podcast hosted by the Healthy Campus Team of Wellness Services. My name is Liv Taylor and my pronouns are she/her. I'm a fourth year general science student here at MRU. I'm also a senior lead Peer Health Educator with the Healthy Campus Team. I wanted to acknowledge that we are on Treaty Seven Land and we're so excited that you are here with us today. The Live Well Podcast is a series focused on the voices and experiences of our students, staff and faculty here at MRU. We intend this series to be conversation based, informal and all about the experiences and insights of our Mount Royal community. I'm joined today by Celeste Pang, Avery Follett, and Tea Schlegel to discuss 2SLGBTQIA+ Health at Mount Royal. Thank you for joining me today. Before we start, I'd like all of you to introduce yourselfs, your pronouns and your major or affiliations with the university. You can start Avery.

Avery Follett  0:56  

 My name is Avery Follett. I'm a second year Sociology Major and I'm minoring in Indigenous Studies, my pronouns are they/them. I'm really interested in Social Philosophy and Social Policy, and I hope to go on to get my master's after school.

Liv Taylor  1:09  

Thank you.

Celeste Pang  1:11  

My name is Celeste, Pang, my pronouns are she/they. I'm an assistant professor in Women's and Gender Studies here at MRU. And I'm the co lead of the critical queer and trans research app.

Liv Taylor  1:22  

Awesome. Thank you. And

Tea Schlegel  1:23  

My name is Tea Schlegel. I'm a psychology student here. I minor in Women and Gender Studies, and my pronouns are she/They.

Liv Taylor  1:31  

Awesome thank you for joining me today, all of you. So in today's podcast, we'll be discussing  2SLGBTQIA + health barriers to accessing health care in the community, and a variety of topics regarding adequate representation, stigma and anti trans legislation. So before we get started, I wanted to provide our listeners with some background information that might help them understand what we'll be talking about throughout the podcast. Celeste, I'd like to start by asking you what does  2SLGBTQIA+ stands for?

Celeste Pang  2:02  

It stands for two spirit, lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, questioning, intersex and asexual.

Liv Taylor  2:09  

Okay, perfect. And then alongside this, I wanted to ask both of you, Avery and Tea, what does queer mean? 

Tea Schlegel  2:15  

For me queer is just someone that identifies with one or more of the acronyms under the 2SLGBTQIA+ spectrum. Also, I don't think it's necessary that you have to either I think that you can be in between phase and identify as queer. 

Liv Taylor  2:34  

Okay, perfect. And would you say the same thing, Avery? 

Avery Follett  2:37  

Yeah, absolutely. The word queer historically was used as a pejorative for gay people or people who were gender non conforming, or who were non normative. But the term has been reclaimed these days to act as a sort of umbrella term for people who belong to the acronym. I really appreciate the term because it's very succinct, and it's all encompassing, it really just captures everybody.

Liv Taylor  2:59  

Okay, awesome. And this is important foundation for listeners as we proceed throughout the podcast. And if any new terms come up throughout the podcast, when we're talking, we'll do our best to pause and define them for those of you that are listening. So with an understanding of who might be a part of the  2SLGBTQIA+ community, we want to discuss health and wellness within the community. And Tea, I wanted to ask you what members of the 2SLGBTQIA+ community need to support their health and wellness? And what does health and wellness even look like in the community? How might that be different from other communities?

Tea Schlegel  3:33  

I think because the community is so varied, there's a lot of different needs. Specifically, I've kind of been focusing personally on bisexual people and their needs. But I think generally queer people do not fit into the normative ways of the way our health systems operate, and what health even is seen as and I think that for queer people health is not something that is as easily accessible, regardless of which acronym you might identify with. So I think a lot of it is access resources. That's something that a lot of queer people struggle with when trying to get health care.

Liv Taylor  4:13  

Okay, and that makes sense. So from what you're saying, I'm kind of hearing that it is this idea of they don't like members of the community might not feel like they fit in within the normative definitions, the normative perspective seen in healthcare and this is exemplified even by the fact that all of our standards for health care how we've investigated what representations or symptoms look like based on the white male, this is a widely known fact and do you think it kind of has something to do with that same idea of not seeing that representation feeling like they can access health care in that manner?

Tea Schlegel  4:46  

Definitely. I think like cis hetero patriarchy is a part of every facet of our society, especially integrated into health care. I think a lot of medical professionals need to be further educated on queer issues, especially intersex issues, bisexuality, lesbian, gayness, just sexuality as a spectrum as well. Just the assumption of hetero sexuality within healthcare settings is super oppressive for queer people and holds them back from, like accessing health, health care.

Liv Taylor  5:18  

And that, that makes sense that idea of not being able to fully be yourself, that makes it even more difficult to really access health care and receive the benefits that healthcare might have to offer. So along those lines, Celeste, I wanted to hear your thoughts on what changes you might like to see for care access, and maybe even what can be done at MRU, or in the greater community to improve this.

Celeste Pang  5:40  

So I would love to see a lot more affirming care, Tea mentioned education, I would like to see  2SLGBTQIA+ people and issues within all healthcare, professional education, also social service education, I think it's really important that professionals going into the fields have some basic knowledge, because so often, they are queer, and trans people, we are the people who have to do that education, when we're seeking care, that position of seeking care can be a very vulnerable position. And we shouldn't have to be doing that work. So I think we need that. And I think we need to see the visible but also very deep and real commitment of our systems, of our educators of our politicians, to our communities, to continue to support us.

Liv Taylor  6:30  

Yeah. And from what you're saying, I'm really gaining that perspective in terms of this systemic oppression, the systemic bias that makes the healthcare system, a non welcoming environment for members of the queer community. And obviously, that's deeply saddening, because it only continues to go on today, which is shameful in our society, especially. Yeah, I personally hear what you're saying. And I can't imagine, because I know my privilege. I know that when I walk into the healthcare system, there's someone who looks like me probably has the same lived experience as me. And for example, my mom who is part of the queer community, she doesn't have that. And it's really harmful if people are wanting to take advantage of preventative care. So alongside that, Avery before our podcast, we discussed this kind of idea of uniquely challenging barriers to accessing health care specifically for trans individuals. I was wondering if you wanted to share more about that experience? And what you might see there?

Avery Follett  7:30  

Absolutely, there are many mental gymnastics that go into accessing healthcare as a transgender person, I have to evaluate how affirming my doctor is going to be, are they going to use my pronouns are they going to take the time to get to know my unique medical needs instead of just pathologizing me as a trans person, there's this concept called the trans broken arm syndrome, where like, if you can imagine a transgender person maybe goes to the emergency room with a broken arm, and says, help my arms broken, I need health care. And maybe the doctor will say something like, "well, are you sure it's not because you're trans?" Like, "how long have you been on hormones?" "Is this because of your top surgery?" And of course, that's a hyperbolic situation. But it's something that we always have to take into consideration, like, to what degree are our medical problems, or the care that we need, is it going to be implicated back onto our transgendernes? So that's certainly something that's at the fore of my mind. And that goes hand in hand with the ways in which there is a lack of knowledge about transgender bodies, especially regarding ones that are on HRT for longer to clarify, HRT stands for Hormonal Replacement Therapy. And it's something that some transgender people choose to access in order to change some of their phenotypic or physical attributes to more closely resemble their desired kind of end goal. So back onto the track of generating knowledge about transgender bodies, I've actually been given the opportunity to participate in quite a few health studies for transgender bodies. So essentially, they ask a lot of questions about health history, they'll take blood tests, a lot of it is very qualitative. And that's one way that the medical sphere and healthcare professionals can help increase their knowledge about transgender bodies and, tried to break free of that pathologization of non normative bodies and queer bodies in general.

Liv Taylor  9:20  

I really love your use of the word pathologization, and pathologizing healthcare because I don't think I've I've actually heard that term before in terms of expressing someone's experience, who's part of the queer community are the trans community in healthcare. And I think just that idea of being looked at like, your identity is the problem. That's the health concern without being able to be seen as a whole patient, a whole person with valid concerns that go beyond just who you are as a person and what you've needed to get to that version of yourself, the version of yourself that is healthiest and happiest. So thank you for sharing that. That's incredibly insightful, and I really appreciate it. So now, we want to shift our discussion to particularly vulnerable communities who are consistently targeted by biased policies and legislation and stigma. And before our podcast Tea and I discussed one of her passions, which is advocating for sex working students. So Tea, could you tell us more about how sex work relates to the queer community and maybe what the stigmas are that are associated with sex work? 

Tea Schlegel  10:23  

Yeah, so last semester, I was in a class with Kimberly Williams, who works here. And it was a social policy class. And we were kind of talking about the ways in which we can become active members and policy change. And we had to choose kind of a passion project and the one I decided to focus on was sex work. And what you were saying about kind of these stigmas. Sex work is immediately associated with trafficking, and even the current legislation percepta protection of communities and Exploited Persons Act. It conflates sex work, consensual sex work and trafficking. So all people who engage in sex work 

are seen as oppressed or victimized or unable to care for themselves, which creates a weird perception of sex workers. It also creates a lot of access and inclusion issues for sex workers in terms of health care, STD testing, accessing resources, issues with homelessness and things like that. For me, I think it's really important to talk about it in a hyperlocal space, because there are sex working students within MRU that are not being represented, and that don't have the resources they need. I would assume a lot of the sex workers on campus are most likely online based sex workers, at least from my research, but in terms of the queer community being represented, it's a lot of trans and disabled, and bipoc, and queer people that are a part of sex working spaces. There's lots of reasons why that could be a lot of it could be stemming from discrimination and violence faced and other workforces, which might make online based sex work a little bit more accessible for someone who's especially trans or disabled. But we see a lack of just generally awareness for sex work. MRU doesn't have a resource board for sex workers. And even I tried to get like a group started for sex workers on campus with the Pride Center. And I really struggled with that there was no one that wanted to kind of partner with me. So sex work is still seen as kind of this very taboo thing that is, is very separate from academia. And, and the two haven't seemed to marry and I think it's really important to bring sex work and higher education together.

Liv Taylor  12:42  

Yeah, it's, it's really interesting how you said that about the the Pride Center, in your experience, they're trying to establish some type of partnership or bridge. And you would think from what you're describing, to me, it sounds like the sex work community and the 2SLGBTQIA+ community, they face a lot of similar barriers in terms of access to health care, in terms of representation, systemic biases. So you would hope that you could establish some type of partnership and sometimes type of connection between those two groups. And I liked also how you said hyperlocal, I feel like that, It's not easy. I don't want to say it's easy, but it's easy for some people to kind of turn a blind eye to some of these issues, you know, within their own mind being like, "Oh, well, this doesn't happen in Canada", or "this doesn't happen at MRU". But it does, and that's why we're here to talk about it because these are relevant to our own local circumstances. So thank you for sharing that. I think it's really important and in addition to sex workers and sex working students, recent proposed anti trans legislation in Alberta is just yet another example of how trans individuals how members of different communities who don't fit the normative standards of societies are targeted by political agendas in our community. So we do want to discuss some of these proposed legislations today. And I wanted to start Celeste, can you tell us more about what these new legislations are?

Celeste Pang  14:03  

Yes. So these are a slew of proposed policy changes that were announced by Premier Daniel Smith on January 31, targeting areas of healthcare, education and sports. So under the guise of preserving choice, these policies will and they already have posts that announcement directly and negatively impacted trans children and youth. Not only are they extremely harmful, they are also not based in evidence, I can provide a few examples of what these proposed policies are. So in the realm of education for children 15 and under parental consent would be needed to change names and pronouns at school, and notification would be required for 16 and 17 year olds. Essentially what this means is that schools, schools are not the safest places to begin with, but they will not be safe spaces for trans children and youth. There are many reasons why trans and gender diverse are questioning children and youth may not go to their parents or their caregivers or their families that may be unsafe, they may face harm, they may face violence. Their educators, the teachers in the schools may be the adults who they are safer with. So what this proposed policy change would do would essentially mandate those trusted adults to out them to their families. So this has a really serious impact on both students and educators and the whole climate of the classroom in the school system. Similarly, classroom instruction on gender, sexuality and sexual orientation would require parental notification and opt in. So this is any instruction on any of these topics, and K to 12. Needless to say, This greatly impacts all students who need to learn about their bodies need to learn about sexuality need to learn about consent, or gender related questions. So I think we can find some common struggle in this area, in particular, in terms of health care, so there are a range of proposed changes. One of the main ones is that for children 15, and under puberty blockers, and hormone therapy for the purpose of gender reassignment or affirmation will not be permitted. Except for those who have already started these treatments, and youth ages 16 and 17, can would be able to begin hormone treatment only as long as they're deemed, quote unquote mature enough and have parental, physician, psychologist approval. So we already know what the best practices are, there have been decades and decades of activism, and research and work around this there is already best practices established. So this proposed change has nothing to do with this evidence and has everything to do with refusing needed care, which we already know can have really, really dire consequences, including people seeking to end their lives. So this is kind of an immediately very serious issue. And then a last example, just to touch on the realm of sports, the proposed policy changes would limit the participation in trans women in sports, again, under a non fact paste idea, a very false idea that trans women have necessary competitive advantage.

Liv Taylor  17:16  

Thank you for for giving us a a foundational understanding of of these legislations, I'm honestly at a loss for words at this moment. And I feel like all I really want to say in terms of that is that to deny gender reaffirming care to the most vulnerable members of our community, being youth who are whether or not you are transgender, or or a part of the queer community, being a teenager is hard. You already faced enough mental health struggles within that and to be denied a safe space to to receive gender reaffirming care. It's horrifying. Is is really the only word I have for that.

Celeste Pang  17:54  

Yes. And I would emphasize the idea that we've been talking about in classes and students have been telling me about all week as well, that this is this really about trans kids and youth? This is targeting really foundational social institutions, including health care, or is it about political power? Is it about distracting us from other issues that we have? And I think we are in a moment where there is increased transphobia increased anti queer and anti trans violence, but where there is also this political project to distract us from other social issues?

Liv Taylor  18:28  

Yeah, I think there is some real validity behind that thought process. And I think that what's worse is that we can't, it's difficult to even have conversations about this. It's difficult to try to bridge gaps to try to make progress here because it's easy to feel powerless in this situation as members of the queer community as people who are not members, but are wanting to help. I see this. I've seen other students talk about this. And I'm glad that you're here with me today to help educate me, educate our listeners about what is truly going on, and how all of these impacts they may seem like, you know, this isn't interfering in health care, but it is and this does affect individuals health at all levels of the system. So with that being said, Avery, I wanted to know about your perspective specifically on these legislations and why they might be harmful, your own journey in relation to that and any insight you could really give us there.

Avery Follett  19:23  

Absolutely. So I'll be turning 26 in March, and I'm transgender I came out when I was 16. So that would have been in 2014. I was in grade 10 in Lethbridge. And it was with a teacher that I chose to use my new name the very first time I asked her to call me Avery instead of my birth name. And she was extremely affirming and receptive. And it was just that small gesture that she gifted me that really kind of sparked me on my own journey. I became comfortable asking my other teachers to also use that name and then I became comfortable asking them to use my pronouns. And it really just snow balled me into this gross. I think that if these policies that Daniel Smith is proposing had existed back then not only would my teacher have had to refuse my request, she would have had to report it to the office, and then they would have called my parents to disclose to them what I was doing. And that would have severely set me back. Even though my parents did end up being affirming of me, as I came out as trans, it's so important to control the method and the timing of when you come out to anybody, not just your parents, it's hugely violating and alienating to have that taken away from you and to be thrust into the public sphere with something that is so personal. And I'm sure all of us can identify with that feeling of having something disclosed that we wanted to keep private or that we weren't ready to disclose. So I think that this is hugely transformative and disruptive for trans youth. And I can only imagine how many youths are going to be outed to their parents, and will just have their risk of homelessness, physical abuse, emotional abuse, religious excommunication, all these like really awful things just so heavily increased for them. And I think that it really does pose an emergency situation for our queer youths in Alberta.

Liv Taylor  21:20  

Thank you, Avery, thank you for sharing your perspective. And being willing to be vulnerable here with us today, talking to us about your own personal story, I think, is a great example of why we can't let this happen in our province in our own community. And as I hear you talking about this, and Celeste giving us this information, my biggest thought is what can I do? What can I do to help? What can students do? How can we prevent this? How can we be there for members of the community, without putting them into places where they have to teach us? You know, that's the last thing we want. And, and I'd love to hear, hear what you guys think about that.

Tea Schlegel  21:58  

I think a really important thing is cross movement, solidarity. And that's something I've learned a lot, even with sex work, all forms of oppression are intertwined. And if you're gonna fight for one thing, you should also fight for the other thing. So I think anyone who's, you know, let's say you're really passionate about sustainability or the environment, you should also be passionate about trans rights and rights and queer rights. And I think all forms of oppression need to be fought at the same time to make movement. So if you're curious about how you can help, I say, get involved in a group and just make your voices heard like form, form groups with people talk about what's happening, raise your voices, that does a lot. There was a lot of people that showed up on Saturday, at City Hall to protest and I think it's things like that, that show that we're not going to allow these policies to be implemented. And we're allowed to sit back and just be okay with it. So I think just voicing your opinion, and joining up with others is really important.

Liv Taylor  23:04  

Thank you. Yeah, really less complacency. And it's like when you see something, say something, stand up for what you believe in and what you believe is right. And I agree, incredibly valuable. 

Celeste Pang  23:14  

I'd add to that right to your MLAs. Again, this is about politics and power. We each have a vote, we live in a democracy. So use that power. If you are a healthcare professional, or an educator with the privilege that you can speak up in your workplace, you can write to your professional association, do that do not leave that to your trans colleagues, who are at much greater risk in this moment. So take, take that initiative and show up where the community is asking you to show up.

Liv Taylor  23:48  

Thank you for talking about those resources and helping me understand I guess, not resources, but ways that other students can help when it is easy, like I said, to feel like there's nothing I can do. But that's not true. There's so much that can be done by individuals who aren't members of the community, as well as individuals who are. But it's unfair to expect that individuals who are, who do identify as trans who are part of the community that they're the only ones that are responsible for taking action, because it's not true. And that's really important for our listeners to know. So to end our discussion today, we did want to provide our listeners with some additional resources, both for individuals who are members of the 2SLGBTQIA+ community and for those who are wanting to learn more about it. So can I ask all of you what resources are available on campus for students who might be members of the community and maybe Tea and Avery, What resources have you had experience with?

Avery Follett  24:43  

I would say for any queer students on campus, the Samru Pride Center is an amazing place to meet other people who are similar to learn more about the community regardless of whether you're queer or not. That's a good touchstone area where you can kind of get immersed. They also have a lot of physical materials like brochures, pamphlets, things like that, that can help improve your education. And I would say that's a good lifting off point in terms of like MRU in general. Broader Calgary base, we also have Calgary Outlink which operates out of community wise in the Beltline area, and they are so well connected to basically the heartbeat of Calgary in terms of social awareness. 

Liv Taylor  25:18  

Thank you and Tea if you wanted to talk about maybe any resources that might be available off campus as well. 

Tea Schlegel  25:24  

Sure, yeah I was just going to add to what Avery said the Pride Center is a good resource. Specifically, I mentioned the MRU clinic, they do offer birth control. I personally haven't had experience there. But I've had experience at Sheldon Chumir clinic, which is downtown. And they're very queer friendly. They provide free birth control, you don't need to be an Albertan citizen, or resident. And they're great for offering alternatives, especially if you're a queer person who may feel a bit unsure about what birth control methods you would like to take on.

Liv Taylor  26:01  

Those are great resources. So thank you both. And Celeste, I was wondering if maybe specifically, you could recommend any courses that our listeners might want to take if they're wanting to learn more about these issues.

Celeste Pang  26:11  

So, I can recommend a few courses. So in women's and gender studies, we have a 2SLGBTQIA+ health course this was a special topics with Tea and Avery last fall, it will now be on the book so it will be offered on a recurring basis. We have a trans futures course that's also offered a gender race and representation and then even our core courses. So our introduction to Women's and Gender Studies or Global Gender Issues, are great starting places, and they are Gen Ed designated. So we welcome students from across departments. And then I'd also like to plug the activities of the critical queer and trans research hub. We have a bunch of stuff going on this semester. And we're also a good place to connect with faculty. 

Awesome, and where might listeners be able to locate more information about the critical clap?

You can follow QriTical on Instagram at qritical.mru would be a good place to start.

Liv Taylor  27:08  

And is that QriTical with a Q? 

Celeste Pang  27:11  

QriTical with a Q. 

Liv Taylor  27:12  

Awesome, thank you. That's all we have for today for our podcast. And again, I wanted to give a special thank you to Celeste Pang, Avery Follett, and Tea Schlegel for joining us today for our discussion on 2SLGBTQIA+ health. The Live Well Podcast is run by the Healthy Campus Team at Mount Royal University. You can find us online at livewell.buzzsprout.com. We're also available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you can get your podcasts. Thanks to artist Scott Holmes for our theme. The song is called Feeling Sunny. You've been listening to the Live Well Podcast and I'm your host Liv Taylor. Thank you so much for tuning in.