Today, we're thinking about an ethical approach to marketing with Maddy Aucoin of By Maddy Aucoin.
Maddy Aucoin (she/her) is a website copywriter, business owner, and public speaker. She helps creative business owners with messaging that sells through trust, integrity, and empathy.
A former higher-education professional, Maddy started her second business, By Maddy Aucoin, to help brands write copy without relying on sales gimmicks or overexaggerated claims. Maddy is also deeply passionate about teaching other entrepreneurs how to market themselves authentically. Aside from guest speaking on numerous podcasts, she has taught many copywriting workshops for entrepreneurs, including for the PARO Centre for Women's Enterprise, PoliticsNOW, and the Build Your Brand conference.
In this episode, we discuss:
CONNECT WITH MADDY
On Instagram at @bymaddyaucoin
On her website at bymaddyaucoin.com
Hosted by @kirstimcnabney
Find links, inspiration and updates on @thinkingaboutpodcast
This episode was edited by Amanda Wan of Wan Media
Today, we're thinking about an ethical approach to marketing with Maddy Aucoin of By Maddy Aucoin.
Maddy Aucoin (she/her) is a website copywriter, business owner, and public speaker. She helps creative business owners with messaging that sells through trust, integrity, and empathy.
A former higher-education professional, Maddy started her second business, By Maddy Aucoin, to help brands write copy without relying on sales gimmicks or overexaggerated claims. Maddy is also deeply passionate about teaching other entrepreneurs how to market themselves authentically. Aside from guest speaking on numerous podcasts, she has taught many copywriting workshops for entrepreneurs, including for the PARO Centre for Women's Enterprise, PoliticsNOW, and the Build Your Brand conference.
In this episode, we discuss:
CONNECT WITH MADDY
On Instagram at @bymaddyaucoin
On her website at bymaddyaucoin.com
Hosted by @kirstimcnabney
Find links, inspiration and updates on @thinkingaboutpodcast
This episode was edited by Amanda Wan of Wan Media
Welcome to The Thinking About Podcast, your digital equivalent to late night chats with good friends that keep you thinking I'm Kirsty. And together we'll join interesting people for deep meaningful conversations that will help elevate our lives, leave us with actionable outcomes and keep us thinking for days to come. Hello and welcome back to the Thinking about Podcasts. It has been a hot minute. I almost felt like we should start the podcast episode with that Kardashian noise. It's like we're back. Did you miss us because we missed you. But truthfully, <laugh> , I didn't miss anything. I'm just kidding. But I have been going through it as you can probably hear from my voice of the cold that never ends. I've been a lot lately and sometimes we need to take breaks and I'm trying to feel better about that. So if you missed it and you've been here for the journey, thank you for coming back. I'm sorry that I left you hanging. Hopefully there were other episodes that you could catch up on. And if you're new here, welcome. My name is Kirsty . It rounds with Thirsty and we are having conversations that keep you thinking and that's always the goal. And today's conversation very much does that. We are talking to anyone who does not like mean girl marketing. And it's interesting that this comes up this week. Well it has come up for multiple weeks for me 'cause we recorded this a while ago. But it seems to be a conversation that I'm hearing a lot. I also personally, maybe it's because I was feeling overwhelmed in the last few weeks, but like I'm just so tired of mean marketing telling you that you're not doing enough or you're not good enough. Or you could be 85 steps ahead because you just need to do this one thing. Like we're over it. Collectively. The dictionary word of the year is literally authentic and I think that that's very fitting to be announced this week in line with this conversation. And also just conversations that I've been having offline as well. So I'm excited to dive into it. This conversation actually goes a lot of different ways and the ethical and non mero marketing energy is what I wanted. But Maddie is just this awesome human who gave us a taste of a bunch of different things. So we will dive in to all of it. But first I wanna tell you about today's guest who is Maddie oco . She's a website copywriter, business owner and public speaker who helps creative business owners with messaging that sells through trust , integrity , and empathy. A former higher educational professional like yours truly, Maddie started her second business by Maddie Oco to help brands write copy without relying on sales gimmicks or over exaggerated claims because we do not love and Overexaggerated claim here. Maddie is also deeply passionate about teaching other entrepreneurs how to market themselves authentically. And aside from guest speaking on numerous podcasts, she has taught many copywriting workshops for entrepreneurs, including for the Perro Center, for Women's Enterprise Politics Now, and the Build Your Brand Conference. She is so well spoken and she just speaks to so many things that we see online that I feel like makes everyone cringe, but people don't articulate it the way that Maddie does. And so I've always appreciated that about her. We have been Instagram friends for a while now and I feel like every time she posts something it just hits so hard. So I was so excited to have her on the podcast. We obviously talked about her copywriting business, how she started it. She actually started it after having a product-based business. And we talked about that as well. We talk about presenting ourselves without being showy or making people feel bad. Mean girl marketing obviously how to approach your copy and marketing ethically, being clear, being specific. That seems to be a trend that goes throughout this whole conversation. And then we even talk about things like finding creativity as a business owner, which lately, if I'm being completely honest, has felt pretty hard. So it was nice that we could have that chat Maddie's content and the things that she shares both online, on social, on her website, and in this conversation just make you feel like you're seen, which is always the goal. So I'm excited for you to hear about this. You'll get tons of tips about how you can make your copy feel good for the people that you're selling to and maybe make some updates for your own business if you have one. So without further ado, I hope you love this conversation with Maddie . If you wanna connect with us, as always, you can find all of our details on the show notes and on Instagram. And we will see you next week for a new episode. I hope that my raspy voice does , does not take away from the beauty of this conversation. And I hope that you have a beautiful week. Welcome Maddie , to the Thinking About podcast. As I just mentioned, very excited that you are here because I love what you have to say about ethical marketing and we will get into that. But before we do, we start every episode with asking our guests what they're currently thinking about because that is the name of the podcast. So it can be anything from what you had to breakfast to how great is outside.
Speaker 2:Wow . Um , I wanted to have a really profound answer for this. I love it . You know, to come on everyone to think like, wow, she's really intellectual. But honestly I've been thinking a lot lately about design specifically because we're trying to redesign our office and add a few new pieces in there . But it's really hard for someone who is not very design minded. And I learned recently that I don't have that ability to picture things in my head. I don't know if you've seen that going around the internet, but there's like people who can picture things in their head and people who can't. And I'm the person who can't. So design and like picturing things is very hard for me. So that's why I'm thinking a lot about ,
Speaker 3:I love that. I actually talk about that a lot because I've seen my friends rent houses 'cause that's what we have to do these days. And I cannot imagine walking into a house and seeing its potential. No. Like I need to see something beautiful to start with <laugh> , uh, or not, which is interesting because I feel like I'm a pretty visual person, but like I have looked at things and been like, I have no idea how you thought that this would happen here.
Speaker 2:Yep . No idea. Absolutely none . Yeah. We've talked a lot about when eventually we're able to buy a house because welcome to being in your twenties in Canada, <laugh> . Um, we're just gonna have to buy a house that's like pretty much done because Yeah. Again, not able to walk into a space and just like see the potential. See that, you know ? Yeah . A couch could go here and like we could redecorate the bathroom. Like I just, my brain doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah. When we moved into this house, I had to bring a friend over who has that skill and I was like, this is what I have and this is what we're gonna do. And Mark actually, like when we first walked through the house, he was like, oh, we're definitely not putting a couch where you think it is, it's gonna go here. And I was like arguing with him. And then my friend came and she was like, we're you should put the couch right here. Exactly where he told me to. And I was like, oh that's such a good idea. And then he, we were like putting the couch there and he was like, I was like, isn't it crazy that that just completes the room so much? And he was like, are you kidding me right now? He, when we go through houses for renting, like he has to actively tell me that we can't get things. 'cause I will see a nice kitchen and I'll be like, this is the one, even though none of our furniture will fit anywhere else. And he's like, no, we're not doing that. So I feel you on that. And that's why all of my walls are empty all the time. Same . 'cause I can't, I can't envision it. But that is gonna be my, my winter task I think .
Speaker 2:Oh , I'm excited to see that .
Speaker 3:Yeah . Well stay tuned. If it looks nice, it's because I stole it off Pinterest. I'm not gonna lie to you. <laugh> .
Speaker 2:Literally my entire existence .
Speaker 3:Pinterest . Whatcha doing to your office?
Speaker 2:We are hoping to get a couple new desks. We're hoping to like do like a double desk kind of situation. Um, 'cause Lynn and works from home most of the time. Not usually in the office because I'm usually hogging the office if I'm being completely honest. <laugh> . But I do wanna have some space for him in there. And then, yeah, I feel like right now it's really just the extra room where like we go and dump things but it has all of the office stuff in there. So I feel like if I make it feel more homey and like somewhere where I actually wanna work, then maybe I'll feel a little bit more inspired to actually work in there as opposed to just like working in random spots around the house.
Speaker 3:<laugh> , that's a good call. Yeah, my office is one of the only things that I feel satisfied with and I think it's just because my bookshelf is right across from me. Oh , I like that a lot. So you are an entrepreneur and a copywriter and I want to give everyone the rundown of how you started your story before we dive in to all of the exciting things Yeah . That we're also gonna talk about when it comes to marketing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so hi everyone. We haven't met yet. I'm Maddie , I'm a copywriter and I specialize in website copy, specifically website copy that cuts the without cutting down your clients. I think there's a lot of copy out there that really shames and blames your client . You know, you hear a lot of things like you're failing because you don't have a million dollars, but my product is going to be the solution and the thing that helps you get there. So my job is really to help business owners realize that they don't need to make people feel bad about themselves to sell. Instead, I really focus on copy that's empathetic, doesn't rely on these big bold claims and things like that. So I've been freelance writing in many different capacities for years now, but February, 2022 was when I officially started copywriting and opened my business. And before this I actually opened a product-based business that I opened in 2020 as did many other people, was a good time. But I noticed then when I was running this product-based business, that so many of my other product-based business friends and small business friends and just business owners in general had a really hard time articulating what made them different and a really hard time articulating and sharing their story. And I didn't know this until I got into marketing, but there were a lot of things about marketing that just felt really normal and really natural to me. I didn't know that I was doing brand storytelling until I learned about it. And then I was like, oh, this is a marketing strategy. But it just felt really easy for me to be able to connect with people through written marketing materials and to be able to share my story and to be able to market in a way that felt really good, which is what I do for my clients now. And I think as business owners we're kind of taught this way of marketing and I think we'll probably touch on this later in the episode, but we get into our heads and we, we think we have to talk down to our audience and present ourselves as the expert or the authority, but I don't think it has to be that way. So that is really my goal and how I got into the short version of how I got into this business. Um, and yeah, what I'm really hoping to do with this business, which is really just to help business owners realize that they don't have to market the way they've been taught and they can market it in a way that feels really good for them .
Speaker 3:I love that. I feel so strongly about that because I get such an ick when people are like, I have $17 million this year. This is what I did, blah, blah, blah. You can pay $17 million for me to teach you that.
Speaker 2:That's how you made $17 million. Is that someone teach <laugh> ? We're
Speaker 3:Not doing that anymore, honestly. Oh my gosh. Okay . I I have to tell you this story, which is probably not very nice, but I'm going to , so I went to this free webinar thing last week and I sat in the first one, it was a five day thing, sat in the first 1 36 minutes. This person did not talk about the topic at all. And I was literally like, what a waste of everyone's time. There was like a hundred people in it. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So 36 minutes go by. She's like, I, I know all of these things and I've done so much and I have 200 emails waiting in my inbox right now, but I'm here sitting with you. And I was like, Ugh , disgusting. And then I saw the same person retweet or rethread a thread that said it was like that one , you've probably seen it that's like someone made $50,000. But the actual thing is that they, they did this much and then $49,000 came from their course. Yes . The same person rethread that. And I was like, you're literally doing this. So anyways, I just had to share that 'cause it's been driving me crazy and I've been very excited for this conversation because it's so relevant, <laugh> and frustrating to me that people do that. Yeah. And I think that there's just such a better way. So I wanna know, when is a moment that you realize it , is it when you first started that you were like, Ooh , don't wanna do this and that you could then move forward a different way? Or was it through practice with your own product-based business that you decided that this was something people could do? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> .
Speaker 2:So I actually think it started around the time that I started my copywriting business so early 2022 because when I was a product-based business, I was following a lot of other product-based businesses. And of course there are things that I don't love about the product-based business sphere. Like for the long time those audios on TikTok that were like basically guilting people into buying the product. Like, you know, that kind of thing. But that's a separate issue. But I think once I started coming into the service-based and coaching sphere specifically, I really noticed the difference how people speak to their clients and how people speak to their audience. And I've talked about it before as like this kind of mean girl marketing vibe and just the way that people feel like they can talk down to other people. And, and again, I think it goes back into being an expert , um, and thinking that, you know, if you are an authority in this space or if you are an expert, you're going to be able to to talk to people like that, which is not how anyone wants to be talked to, right? Like, I don't wanna be made to feel bad about myself because I don't know something. And I also think that we're missing in so many of these cases, like you just talked about, we're missing so much context when we see posts and when we see conversations like this, right? Like, yeah, maybe you made $17 million, but like how much did you spend on like ads? Or how much did you, right . Which is all like valid things, but I think it's a little bit misleading to say like, oh, I spent $17 million and I'm gonna teach you how to do it , but they're probably leaving some stuff out. Right? So yeah, I think especially when I came into, you know, the online business space , we'll call it, I think I really noticed like this change in how people are expected to talk to their clients. And I felt for a while I was like , maybe I should be like this. You know, like maybe, maybe I should be like a little bit spicy, you know, as, as people call it, right? When a lot of the times it's just like, sometimes it's just being mean. But yeah, I feel like for a while I saw it and I was like, you know, maybe this is like what you have to do to be an authority in this space. And I couldn't really do it. I I just naturally cannot be like that <laugh> because I have a hard time being mean because I'm afraid people will think if I am mean they won't wanna talk to me. But yeah, I think in seeing that and learning that there's a better way and that like what had worked for me with my own product-based business, which was not marketing to people in a gross mean way had always worked for me. Right? And going back to those central tenets of like brand storytelling and just being able to market in an honest and ethical way has always worked for me. And I'm like, there's gotta be, there's gotta be something there. Right? And then in connecting with other people who also feel the same way about ethical business and you know, ethical marketing made me realize like, okay, I'm not the only person who like thinks that this is, this is weird, right? Like that you know, people should be able to talk down to us and we should want to work with them because of it or that they should be able to, you know, have these massive income claims and we should just wanna work with them because of it. Right ? So that was really where that started for me. And then just kind of slowly over time and got to where it is now.
Speaker 3:I love that. And I think that it's so interesting the mean girl piece because it's legit exactly how it feels. The fact that there's literally no context. And I think that part of my experience with it of why I feel such an ick now is because I have vibed so hard with all of the authentic pieces of like social media, let's say. And when you see people's real things, like I remember reading those probably five years ago and being like, oh my God, they have this much and like, what's wrong with me that I ha that I haven't quit my job and done that? Or like <laugh> Yeah . Which is very MLM and scary Yeah . In itself. But also now I'm like, well where are the receipts? 'cause like, let's see, because you could totally lie about it. And there are people that I recently learned just Photoshop what they're saying and I'm like, this is actually wild <laugh> .
Speaker 2:Yeah. I cannot believe that that's a thing. And like I know that people do it because they've been taught to do it, right? Yeah . Like other marketing strategies, right? You think like, okay, this person's doing it so it should be okay that I'm doing it. But it's so interesting and like, I think yeah, when the kind of like rise of like online business as we know, it started like, yeah , about five years ago it was so like common and you'd be like, oh yeah , like how is this person making so much money? Of course I wanna learn from them . Of course I wanna join their free webinar to see how they're doing it. How are they, you know, making all this money and doing all this stuff and I'm just not Right. So you feel like this sense of lack in yourself and now I just see posts and I'm like, I have to check myself because I'm like, oh my gosh, like they're doing that and then I'm like, wait, are they actually doing it?
Speaker 3:<laugh>, take this as your sign to like, think about that when you're seeing it. What can people do instead? So what is the other side of the coin that you help people with or that they, that business owners that are listening to this can think about?
Speaker 2:For me, some of the big problems that I've had with this online marketing space in general, I think a lot of people, again, like we just talked about are very disillusioned with online business and especially with like courses and digital products, especially because they've had such a rise. And I think in a lot of ways people don't necessarily know how to do them or have been promised a way to do them that isn't accurate. So , um, or they don't know how to market them in a way that is actually honest or ethical because again, they're being taught, you know, how to market it in a way that's not necessarily honest or ethical. So my biggest tip is always just to focus on being really clear and really specific. So I know I've talked a lot on social media about, you know, don't market your offer as like a life changing offer or just focusing on creating specifics in your offer and creating specifics in your marketing that are really going to tell people what they're going to get. Because if you, I think everyone's kind of heard the phrase like, if you speak to everyone you're speaking to no one right? In marketing. And that's really what unspecific sales copy is. Like, you're kind of just setting people up for failure and for being disappointed in your products or services, which obviously that's not a good business model, right? You want people to be happy with what you're selling them and what they're purchasing and you want them to talk to their friends about it. So I always encourage business owners to just think about how you can be so specific and so clear with what you are marketing and what you're selling, being clear about the benefits, being clear with what people are going to get from it, being clear about who it's for. Because again, I think ties into this unspecific specificity , um, I can't talk to that apparently is , um, a lot of people will just say, oh, you know, this product or this service is for anyone who wants to make moves in their business, but like that could be anyone and who's gonna say, I don't wanna make moves in my business. This is not for me. Right? So again, just by being specific and telling people about the benefits, telling people about who it's for, it's going to uh , number one, allow people who are actually aligned and wanna purchase that to buy from you. And it's also going to reduce the number of people who are disappointed or disillusioned with what they're purchasing. Which again, I think we've seen such a rise in people who have had an experience who have bought something and been like, dang it like this, this was not a good buy. I'm really disappointed I spent $10 or a thousand dollars or however much and I didn't get what I want out of it. So that's my definitely my biggest tip is just being as clear as you can be.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think that from the service perspective too, it also takes away from the feeling that like you haven't done enough for the money that you're asking people for , which is something that I know that I've thought about. I'm always like, I don't know if I'm offering enough, even though I like have done way more than I really needed to. But I think that it's almost the same as like having your contract Mm-Hmm . In the sense that like you have this backup piece of your copy or your contract, you should have both , uh, for different parts of it obviously, but to be like, this is what we promised , this is what the transaction is for. And I think that that's an important part too. So your, your customers understand what's happening, you understand what's happening. You're not adding, like if you're <laugh> , if you're a type a high achiever like me, you're not adding 800 things to your plate that you didn't need to do for free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. And then I think the other point to that is like, if you have that stuff available, whether you have like a piece on your website or a piece on your social media or you have like a one of those kits that you can send to people like your , your pricing that you can send to people and you have the deliverables or like the base deliverables listed there and then you go obviously into further detail with your contract, people know like what to expect and what to go into it. And then yeah, again, as you said, there's really no question on their end of what they're getting and then yeah, you don't feel bad about, you know, saying I can't deliver anymore because I've literally done all of these things. Like I'm, I'm at my max, I don't need to like over, over deliver . Right? So yeah, it keeps you accountable on like both, both ends. But yeah, I think that specifically like in terms of like contracts and like with the clearness in general, I feel like we've gotten so far away from that in like the online business world. I'm just gonna keep saying that if you're not watching this, I'm doing in quotes , <laugh>. But yeah, I think we've gotten so far away from that, which is a really interesting conversation maybe for a later time. But like it's really interesting how like the online business world has like changed like traditional business and like taken a lot of things out that we should actually be focusing on like contracts and like setting up proper systems and like getting paid, you know, in a good way that's maybe not like Venmo, you know what I mean? Yeah . Like it's it's taken a lot of like the the things that you probably need for like legitimacy and like a legitimate business and moved it away or like said it's not important. So that's yeah , really interesting.
Speaker 3:I had a conversation with one of my clients recently actually about that. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . They were talking about how they left, left their corporate jobs to , to get away from the things that they didn't like and build their own thing. And they were like, now we're using our corporate thing that worked to make it our business grow farther. So it always comes back to pieces of it. I think it's just about building, building in a way that works for you as well. But like if you're just starting on your listening to this , it takes time for that <laugh> . Yes . Unless you're amazing and uh , you just make $70 million every day , please teach
Speaker 2:This with
Speaker 3:Receipts then , then you can have, you can have a team that can do it all for you. Yeah . That's another piece that like we don't need to get into today, but these like massive numbers are also coming from people who have teams of like, you don't even know how many and you're, you're like a one person show sometimes being like, oh my gosh, why am I not doing 17 different platforms and all of these different offers and all of these different things. And I think that there's just so many things maybe we have to make like a list of questions to ask yourself when you get triggered by these kinds of mean girl marketing tactics. Yes .
Speaker 2:So I have like two questions that I always ask myself when I'm like thinking about how I wanna run my business. Because again, you see so much stuff on the internet, especially on Instagram reels and TikTok. I had to put TikTok 'cause I couldn't stop scrolling, but I am always on Instagram reels. It's
Speaker 3:Relatable.
Speaker 2:And so I'm always like seeing like people are like, oh, you should be doing this and you should be doing this in your business and this is how you need to be running your business. And so I have to like force myself to come back to the questions of like, am I doing this because someone on the internet told me to do it this way? And like, what is my goal with my business and how do I wanna build? Because I see people sometimes on the internet like building these like multimillion dollar businesses, which I'm like, that's so cool. Like I wanna do that. And then I check in with myself and I'm like, no I don't, I don't wanna do that. Like I'm tired. I don't have the energy. I I have no desire to like build this huge massive conglomerate business. So, but it's so hard I think when you're on the internet and you're like, this person has told me that I need to build this system in order to be, you know, profitable and successful and don't get me started on the number of like fancy systems that I have done free trials of and then invested in and then just like never used again because someone on the internet was like, you need this to like be successful. But I think it's so easy again, to like get caught up and what everyone else is doing and what everyone else wants. And it's so important. If there's one thing I've learned this year, it is so important to just like tie back into like yourself and your goals because it's okay if you don't wanna make $70 million or be a girl boss or you know, like any of that stuff, right? Like your business is like cool and valid even if you make whatever a good comfortable income is for you. And that's just like what you do, right? So yeah, I feel like just checking in with yourself, realizing like, is this actually what I wanna do ? Like is this the internet? Like trying to tell me that I need to do more and then just like going with with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Those are really good questions and I'll just add to that, that going outside and like taking a breath of fresh air while you decide those questions instead of scrolling and thinking about them, which is what I get caught in a lot, is definitely key. Okay . I wanna talk a bit more about copywriting since I didn't know you're so good at it and I just love it so much. Yeah , A large part of it is really getting to know someone's business from the inside out. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> . And like I really pride myself on the fact that people are like, you're so good at just taking what I spew at you and like making it into a story. And I am very similar to you in the fact that like I learned that that was a skill when I was doing it. Not that I like was taught how to do that <laugh> . So I don't know if you can answer this because you also came from that skillset , but what can people think about or what is your process when it comes to understanding what someone's business is or for the listener point of view, if they wanna better know how to talk about their own story, what are some things to think about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for me, when I'm starting to work with a new client, and even over time as you, you know, you get to learn the little things and you know, you keep tweaking things and you know, making everything better. Especially when you're working with so many different industries and, and people who can sound completely different. It can be really tough to, to keep it all straight like right. Like it is obviously going to sound very different when, you know, I'm writing for the fun mid twenties super bu bubbly girl who like does like dips auto setups versus like the couple who's like almost ready to retire and they own a hardware store. Right? So one of the biggest things that I always do, and I give this tip to everyone 'cause it's my favorite, is I keep a file of all of the stuff that I know about the client and how they write. So for example, I will go through their website, I'm going through all of their Instagram captions, I'm going through everything that I can find about these people on the internet. That's my favorite part of the process is just like finding people and finding stuff about , um, I don't know if that is a little bit weird, but it's , it's fine. But I'll keep a list of like the emojis that they're using, the punctuation that they're using, the way that they structure their sentences. Any like common words that they're using like all the time. And just keeping a record of that stuff. And I have one for each and every one of my clients because when you're stuck or when you're trying to really like put yourself in that mindset, you're like, I know what would make this better, this emoji that I know that they use and it's going to, you know, keep consistency. So I suggest to people all the time, like even if you're not a copywriter and you don't have clients, you do that for do it for yourself, right? If you know that you have these things that you're using all of the time, go through your content, go through your website, look at how you're writing, see what the consistencies are, take note of them . And then when you're feeling stuck or you're feeling like, you know, this doesn't really sound like me, how can you go back and make it sound like that? You can also take screenshots if you think there's any, you know, captions or pieces of content that you feel like really capture what you sound like and just include that in there as well. So it's always just somewhere where you can go back and just figure out what you sound like and how you sound. That's definitely like my biggest tip for being able to find that consistency and just making sure that over time, no matter if you're working for just your own content or you're working with clients' content, it is absolutely the easiest way to make everything consistent Because yeah, my biggest and my most favorite compliment from clients is like, oh my gosh, that sounds like me. Like I have no edits or anything. And I'm like, yes . It's ,
Speaker 3:There is no better feeling than that. Right ? Honestly. Right . I'm like, oh thank you <laugh> . It's so nice to take someone's like random thoughts and turn it into something that makes sense for them. It's a really special gift I think. And that's super cheesy to say that about myself, so I'll just say it to you. But I do really love it and I love the idea of keeping a folder. That's a really good idea. I need to do that. Uh , 'cause all my folders are just in my head and like that can get confusing. I saw the emoji tip on your Instagram actually. Ah , and I was like, that is brilliant. But it's good because you run out of ideas sometimes. And so I think that that's an important thing to do. And also I feel like the research part is also my favorite and I like to credit that to my like my like 15-year-old Facebook creeping self. Yes . I'm like, this is what, this is what brought me to where I'm today <laugh> .
Speaker 2:I love that. That is actually so true. Yeah . And even like if I think I , maybe I shouldn't like, you know, but you can
Speaker 3:Say it, this is a
Speaker 2:Safe space . Um , I, yeah, I still like, if I need to know something about someone, I'm like, what can I find about them on the internet? Oh yeah. Like I will pull, I'll pull things from like way back. Yeah , I'll, I'll find that information. But I feel like again, it's not a bad thing. We use it in our jobs to like
Speaker 3:Exactly help our , we needed to do that, to have the skills that we have today. Yeah . I do think that there , if they did a study, there would probably be a very through line of people that are like good at like, I can find anyone in five minutes. Yeah . Not even, probably less. But like there is a through line of people that were good at creeping on Facebook when that was a cool thing to say, if it ever was to , uh, marketing girlies these
Speaker 2:Days. Yeah , I love that. I love that. I should be an Instagram post.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Feel free to use it . <laugh> . Okay . This is a little bit off of what we were talking about, but it's something that I've been thinking about a lot lately because of what's happening in my own life. But what happens when you don't feel the creativity ? So I feel like as someone who has to be creative for other people as my job, there are days where you wake up and you're not creative. And so I'm curious, and I'm probably gonna ask a lot of people this in the coming weeks, if you have any advice or tips or thoughts on that ?
Speaker 2:To be honest, I'm going through something similar like where I'm just not feeling the creative vibes and I have neglected my Instagram so freaking badly , uh, for a long time because yeah, just the creative vibes just haven't felt like it's there. And with everything, you know, I think when things are going on in your personal life and in the world, it's like, it's hard to know like how to show up. And I think right now I'm working on like giving my capacity to my clients. 'cause I'm like, okay, there's something there. Like I know that that is going to be like the thing that is obviously important in my business, but something that I figured out last week when I was just like, oh , like I don't wanna do this. Like, I have calls with clients where I have to, you know, help them with their brand messaging. And I was like, I don't wanna do this. Like, I'm not feeling creative. But when I got on those calls and I started talking about it and I started like helping people with things, I was like, wow, I actually feel like a lot more creative. And like, I feel like, I feel like a lot of things are like coming together. And so I don't know how to like replicate that in a regular situation, but I almost feel like being able to like talk about new things and new perspectives with people is so helpful. And again, I don't know how to like set that up, but I feel like, I don't know if this is you too , but with so much of my content, I feel like I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over again. People are tired of hearing this. Like I just, I don't feel like creating content about this right now. Like I feel tired of it. And so I feel like just being able to get into those new perspectives and to talk to people about different things and their own issues, I feel like really helped me pull myself outta that. Even for like a day, which is when I post it . And then I posted again sentence , but that's okay . Maybe this , I think that this conversation will help me again because I think just being able to talk to other people, which is something that is difficult in online business ownership, especially when you work for yourself. I think it, it helps with that creativity a little bit. It helps you get outside yourself and see like, wow, like it doesn't have to be necessarily hard and maybe there can be some new ideas there, but also at the same time like honoring your capacity obviously and like giving yourself a little bit of time to, you know, to chill and, and you know, feel the feels and you know. But yeah, I feel like getting those new perspectives and just talking to people has been really helpful for me at least a little bit.
Speaker 3:That's very true. I do feel like when I'm with clients, like I will go into it being like, oh my God, I have no idea what I'm gonna create today. I don't know how I'm gonna do this, how I'm gonna show up if I'm being completely honest. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> I'm very excited most of the time . But like sometimes it happens, but then you get there and you're like, oh, there's other people. And I think that that is like a big thing about working for yourself and working at home specifically. And that's why I think that community is so important because, because it has to get you out of your head when you're like, I don't know how to do that without clients. Um, have a podcast. It helps a lot <laugh> . But I think that just getting out in the world and remembering yourself is also very helpful. So excited that we're having this and thank you for being honest about that. It also helps to know that it's , you're not the only one that it's Yes . Which think is important. So
Speaker 2:Everyone is like going through it right now it feels like. And so it's
Speaker 3:Like it's hard to be someone online creating copy, creating content, creating whatever, when like big things are happening in the world and like things are not okay and you're like, my job is to make a silly little meme. Like what am I doing? Wow . So that's an existential crisis I've been having lately. But you know, that's fun for all of us. But I do wanna tell you that no one is tired of hearing what you have to say because I always love seeing your posts. So please consider me in your folder of people who are very excited to hear what you have to say. And I think in , if you're listening to this and you're a business owner or something like this is also a time where you can refresh things that you're doing offline or you can repurpose content that you already have. Yes. I think that those are helpful things too. Yes.
Speaker 2:Repurpose your content. That is my like favorite thing in the entire world to do. Yeah . No one knows. No one cares.
Speaker 3:No , nobody is stalking you except us, us when we're writing stuff for you. But like, you've already hired us so it's okay. But like nobody else is stalking you to know that you have repurposed anything and they forget everything in seven seconds, just like goldfish. So it's okay to reuse it . <laugh>. Okay , let's talk about marketing. That's out. You have posts about it that are personally my favorite because I'm like, yeah, these are out. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , can you tell us why we are going to lean away? We've already kind of covered some of this, but like why are we leaning away from mean girl? This offer isn't for you. Life changing level up is one that I hate. Yeah . Like what are you leveling up to? Tell me something that matters. What can we use instead? Like what are some phrases that might make sense to other businesses?
Speaker 2:Ooh , I never give tips about like specific phrases. I think all the times that I've said, if you're using this phrasing, like something I see a lot is like throwing spaghetti at the wall or like spinning your wheels or like, you know, those kinds of things. And again, we talked about before like the life changing offer. We've heard those things so many freaking times and especially when you're in the online business space and you're seeing people using them over and over and over, right? It's hard to differentiate one offer from the other offer from the other person to the other person. Right? So I, instead of using like those phrases, I really like to think about like what I'm actually actually trying to say. So again, like when you said Level up, it's like what are you, what are you trying to say? Like are you trying to say like get to the next stage in your business or like grow your revenue from like the starting to like, you know, maybe $10,000, I don't know, whatever that looks like. So like, just like instead of using like the big overarching phrases that are generic and not really telling anyone what you're actually doing, how can you make that really specific and tell them what the actual outcome is? Because again, if you're thinking, when I think about Level Up, I'm thinking about like a video game. Like I'm like, me too , you know, I'm not thinking about my , or
Speaker 3:Just startup growth . Yeah . <laugh> . <laugh> .
Speaker 2:Which we do not wanna be associated with. Right. So yeah, I think if you can tell people in like the most specific way possible what the outcome is, again, if you're switching level up for like, you know, make your first $5,000 or whatever that looks like, how can you be specific about that and how can you share that being specific is going to help you stand out again. Because if everyone's using, you know, the life changing offer, you know people are talking about spinning your wheels. If you're using language that is new and different and specific, you're just automatically going to stand out and people are automatically going to be able to qualify themselves for your product or service because they know it's for them. Right? If it's life changing, people don't know if it's for them. And again, I think it goes back into that piece that we talked about. It sets people up for less disappointment because they know it's for them. They're gonna sign up for it, they know it's going to help 'em . As opposed to if it's just something that's gonna help 'em level up, well maybe they don't actually need it, then they invest in it and then they're disappointed and they wanna refund or they put you on blast on social media. Right? So we want, we just wanna be as specific as possible. We wanna avoid any bro language, like, you know, leveling up or like leveraging or like, you know, life changing, anything like that. We can just be specific. And that is honestly just, and also clear. I think people, I don't think people focus enough on like how being clear benefits your copy. I think especially when you're an expert in something or when you're really good at something, it's really hard to take yourself out of the equation and like understand how other people see stuff and like read stuff. Right? Like a lot of people, if you're starting out, if you're targeting, you know, business owners who are starting out, they don't know what an ROI is, they don't know what a KPI is. Right? So you've gotta make it easy for people, you gotta make it clear, you gotta make it specific and then people will will understand and be able to qualify themselves for whatever you're offering.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's such a good tip. And I would say that if you catch yourself writing level up or life changing or whatever, what can you, what is the actual impact of that? Like what is the life changing thing for the 30-year-old woman that you're selling to? Yeah . Because there could be a life of a mother. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> who wants to stay at home and maybe buying a new house is a life changer for her. And then there's someone who is starting a business and making their first sale is a life changing for them. Like maybe ask yourself that so that you can get clear to Maddie's point earlier, like what you said about your own questions that you ask yourself when you're seeing what other people are saying. Maybe question that if you're catching yourself writing level up, I think that that's a good, good thing to consider .
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I always tell people like what you're offering and like the benefits don't have to be like the most wild, like extravagant. Like it does not have to be life changing, right? Like, I'm not going to the store to buy a box of cookies because it is going to change my life. I'm going buy a box of cookies because I want a cookie and it is going to fulfill that. Right? So it can be something small, right? Like maybe you're selling like a digital download to like help people with their email marketing, right? You're gonna help them figure out how to master like flows and automations. That is the benefit, right? Like it doesn't have to be like you're going to help them master email marketing so they can level up their business and make their first million, right? Like it can be as small as that. I think people appreciate more often, especially now that we've been, you know, sold these big life changing transformations, I think people prefer that, you know, you're gonna help them with this, with this one thing and that's what it is. As opposed to you're going to change their whole business. And I don't know why I keep like lowering my voice like a bro whenever I'm like,
Speaker 3:You're like very announcer at a hockey game being like, now coming onto the ice, we've got life changers <laugh>,
Speaker 2:It's my alternate . That's my bro marketing persona. But yeah, I think people wanna like actually know, and if you're willing to be honest with them and, and clear and specific about that transformation, they're going to buy it knowing exactly what they're getting and not be disappointed when they don't get a million dollars in sales from their email funnel. Right? So just being clear and specific and it's okay to have a very specific transformation that's not going to, you know, change their life and their business. It's going to upgrade a maybe a tiny part of it and that's fine. That's what people are looking for, right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And if they're searching for how to do email funnels mm-hmm . <affirmative> , they're gonna find your email funnel package a lot better than your life changing offer package. Exactly . So let's keep that in mind too, <laugh> , because that's important. You talk a lot about how business is personal and I think that that's so true and I'm seeing it even more these days. What advice do you have to run business in a way that looks and feels personal for you? Specifically?
Speaker 2:For me, running a business that feels personal can mean so many, many things. And I think when I got into business I was like, for me, running my business personally feels like, you know, focusing on the causes that matter to me and like, you know, wanting to donate a portion of my revenue to charity every month and like talking about the issues that matter to me. But I feel like for me now it has gotten so much more like diverse than that, right? Like I think it bleeds into every part of your business and it doesn't just have to be talking about like politics or, you know, donating or whatever that looks like, right? That's kind of the beauty of it. That it's, it's personal to you. And so something that's really personal for me is I don't have a set work schedule because it doesn't align with my energy level . So like Monday through Friday, I will like pop onto my computer when I have meetings and then if I have the energy, I'll go sit and do client work and then, you know, pop things in wherever. Whereas people will be like, you know, for them in another way, it will feel good to have those set time blocks , um, and like set work schedule. But for me that doesn't work. Um, for me. And then something else that's also personal for me for an example is like, again, going back to those like systems that I've tried to set up for my business. 'cause someone on the internet told me to, I realized that that doesn't work for me. And you know, I have my own system, I have things that work for me. But I think again, when you're thinking about running your business in a way that feels personal to you, it can be literally everything, right? Like it's, it's considering your capacity, it's considering what you actually wanna do and not outsourcing that to other people. I think so often, like we think we again have to run our business the way that someone else on the internet is running their business. But you don't have to, right? It can look how it looks for you and that is absolutely okay and no one can tell you that it's wrong unless you are like doing something that's like illegal. But , um, yeah, that's like definitely my biggest advice is like, again, just like reflecting on, did someone on the internet tell me I have to do this? Is that why I'm doing this? And like, thinking about and keeping yourself aligned with your business goals. Like is this actually going to help you achieve your business goals? And, and how can this help move you forward?
Speaker 3:I love that. A friend of mine often, she has an agency Mm-Hmm . And every time we get together she asks me what my dream for my business businesses . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And every single time she asks me that, it's usually when I'm like very deep in client work. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> . And I forget about what's the fact that I'm like doing this for me. 'cause I fall into employee mindset a lot, which is something that I'm working on. But I feel like that question every time I come back to it, like really puts me back on track to what it is that I want and the fact that I get to control it. And I think that that's such an important part. If you are working for yourself or working on something is looking at your energy or looking at your schedule, you actually don't have to follow the rules that you've always been taught. Like you can make it work for you. And, and it's okay to do that. I think that we all need a little bit more permission about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. I really like that question actually .
Speaker 3:Yes. I highly recommend, I'm actually gonna get it when I do organize my office this winter. I'm gonna get it on the wall at some, like in a painting or something so that I can keep coming back to it. 'cause I forget about it until I see her again. And then I'm like, thank you for continuing to bring this up for me. Now she doesn't even have to ask because I just see it when I see her face. But like, I feel like it's something that I have to ask myself on a daily basis. <laugh>.
Speaker 2:Okay. When you do it in your office, please again, send me the , the,
Speaker 3:I'll I'll, I'll send you a digital copy of it so that you can also print one <laugh> <laugh> . We can just have <laugh> . Maybe I'll make it merch for the podcast. Here
Speaker 2:We go.
Speaker 3:We can all just have like a little army of dream life creators. I think that that's cute. Final question before we go into our every episode questions. I read in an old post that your ultimate goal is to be an author and a speaker, which I think is lovely. And you seem to be doing more speaking and collaborating to share all your copy skills this year. So how is that going and how is your author dreams coming along? Because I'm ready to read your book.
Speaker 2:Thank you. You know what, I honestly, when I first started, I did not expect speaking to be something that I was interested in. I kind of was always just like, oh, you know, like, it's nice, but I feel like a lot of people have expertise and they have more expertise than me. And so that will be their job and I'll just, you know, like do the thing. And then when I started this business, people started approaching me and being like, do you wanna teach this workshop? Like, do you wanna speak to my membership group? Do you wanna, you know, do all of these things? And I was like, me, like you're asking me to <inaudible> . And then I started doing it and the more and the more I did it, I was like, oh my gosh, I love doing this. And I think the better that I've gotten at it, the more I enjoy it . And specifically I enjoy it because my least favorite thing is going to like a workshop or an event or whatever and it's not information that is like actually helpful. And obviously not all information is going to be helpful or relevant to each person, but I don't want it to be a sales pitch like I literally want it to be, how can what I'm telling you actually help you and how can you take what you've learned and literally go home and like apply this now. So that is my favorite thing about speaking is that I feel like I get to like actually teach what I've learned and make it easy for people. So that's my favorite thing. I recently taught a guest lecture to a college class, which was amazing . Really freaking cool. That was like the highlight of my career so far. So I really love doing that. And obviously I think collaborating is such like an untouched space that like not enough people are doing. Obviously people are doing it, but I think, like I didn't realize how like awesome collaborating was until I started doing it. And just being able to like work with other creatives to talk about the issues that we're facing in kind of this industry and how can we work together to like, again just help educate people about things that are going on. So that's been really fun. I'm hoping and manifesting for 2024 by manifesting, I mean I need to like actually do some work <laugh> , but I need to like put together like a speaking page and stuff like that because one of my visions for 2024 is to just focus more on speaking. I feel like I focused a lot on client work this year, but I really love speaking. I really wanna get more into it now that I've had like a lot of experience with it . So we'll do that and then That's awesome. Author Dreams are hopefully going to come to fruition at some point. The thing is, is I have always wanted to be an author, but I have no idea what I would write a book about. I'm like, there is , there is definitely something there. Like I think I would probably talk about like marketing in some capacity or like business ownership, but I'm like, I feel like I need to figure out like exactly like what I would talk about first. But I think, I think once I get there, I think it will be, will be good. So probably not next year, but like maybe the year after or maybe the year after. I'm trying to remind myself that like things don't have to happen like immediately, which is really hard for me. I feel like I'm just always like, oh my gosh, like why isn't this happening yet? Like, why has no one offered me a multimillion dollar book deal? How dare you? Because
Speaker 3:You didn't take the life changing course on book deals. No , I'm just kidding. <laugh> .
Speaker 2:I should have . I missed an opportunity, Bri . Okay, well now I need to go take it so that I can know
Speaker 3:<laugh> . But um ,
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, I wanna be really intentional with it . I wanna take my time, so hopefully, hopefully one day in the next few years I can call myself a published author. That would be really cool .
Speaker 3:I love that. One of my good friends, probably three years ago , two years ago now, he told me that he heard someone say that you're writing your story as you live. And so he was like, the goals that we're working on are like part of the story that we will tell one day. So you are working on it.
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 3:Isn't that beautiful? I think about that all the time and when I like, I don't know what to do, I'm like, I have to keep writing this story.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Me too. It's one of my favorite things. So you are working towards it. Just keep that in mind. Okay. Every episode, questions. First and foremost, we love a recommendation. What are you reading, listening to or loving lately? And it doesn't even have to be lately. It could be of all time , uh, that we should check out.
Speaker 2:So I don't really watch a lot of like TV or movies or anything. I'm just not like a TV or movies person. But I recently watched the third season of Only Murders in the building. Obviously I've seen that other person too, but it just wrapped up and it was so freaking good.
Speaker 3:I haven't watched the new season yet,
Speaker 2:I'll be honest. The third season in my opinion, wasn't as good as the first and second, but I think closer to the end of the third season, I won't spoil anything . But I think they like kind of came back into like what they were really good at and setting up for a really good fourth season. That's
Speaker 3:Good. Which
Speaker 2:Not renewed for , so
Speaker 3:Yay . I feel like the first season I was just kind of like watching it to watch it at times. And then at the end they have really good cliffhangers. I remember being at the end of that being like, oh my God, when is the new one coming out? <laugh> . So I'm not surprised to hear that feedback, but I'm excited to watch it. Actually, you're the second person this week that's commented on it to me, so clearly I am behind on that. <laugh> , what is your favorite thing about yourself? I
Speaker 2:Would say my favorite thing about myself is just my resilience or like grit I guess. I don't know if that's like a weird thing, but , um, I feel like especially over like the past few years, I feel like I've just been like so willing to just like go for stuff and like try things and just like commit to things. Even if at times I'm like, oh, I'm too young for this. Like, I'm not good enough for this. I don't have enough expertise in this. You know? I think for me there have been so many challenges and you know, I've had to teach myself a lot of stuff and learn a lot of stuff. And I think growing up and getting through your twenties while also parenting while also being a business owner is not for the faint of heart . And so I am , I'm really proud of myself for like, pushing through on my goals and making things come to fruition, even though it often feels very hard and very uncomfortable and very against everything I wanna do, which is just like lay in bed and chill.
Speaker 3:<laugh>. I think so too. And I think resilience is like one of the biggest things that you have to have if you're a business owner for sure. Let alone all the other things that you have on your plate because you have to cheer yourself on and keep going. And there are days where that's really hard if we're being honest . So congrats to you for that. <laugh> also, I love that you just go for things. Like you're always putting things out there and I'm very inspired by that. So congrats to you on
Speaker 2:That's , it's hard and scary. Like it's, it's, it's scary, especially when you don't know if like people are gonna be interested or be receptive to it. And yeah, I think it's always just a lesson either way. And even if I'm just like, wow, I , I really wanna be sad. No one liked this or no one cared about this or no one , you know, people probably did. They just, I just didn't know about it. But yeah, I think it makes it worth it when like you aren't expecting to hear someone be like, oh, I really loved that you did that, and you're just like, what? Like, people liked that I did that like I did . No one told me. You know ? So it's like, it's almost like you said, like you have to cheer for yourself and you always get that feedback later somewhere. Yes . But at the moment you have to like cheer for yourself and keep reminding yourself that it's worth it. It , the feedback will come like at a later time when someone's just like, oh, I forgot to tell you. Like,
Speaker 3:Yeah. And you're like, oh my God, really? Because I thought literally nobody noticed and also didn't care. And people are like, I listened to like every episode of your podcast. I'm like, really? <laugh>
Speaker 2:Instagram story . So <laugh> . Yeah, <laugh> .
Speaker 3:Yeah. You never know who's listening. And I think that, I think that that is why it's so important to tell people things, but also it's good to remember that like, not everyone feels comfortable to do that and you still are making a difference.
Speaker 2:People will watch you in silence. Yes . Which is like, people say that as like a bad thing like that. Like people are just , but you're negatively watching you, but people positively watch you, right ? Oh
Speaker 3:Yeah. People are inspired by you and you may never know until like a long time later, like people will say things to me and I'll be like, oh my God, really? Because I felt so embarrassed doing that. Yes,
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:So just keep chugging along because somebody's watching. It's probably us. We're probably going back and looking at it later. Who is someone who keeps you thinking?
Speaker 2:I feel like, again, this kind of goes back into my , uh, my first answer where I wanted to have something really profound, but the person that keeps me thinking is my daughter. She is four. And I feel like the older she gets the more inquisitive she is. And she's so like, empathetic and like curious about the world. And I think something is apparent that you don't realize is that you have to be constantly thinking about the best way to explain things. Like sometimes she'll be talking and she'll be like, why did the dinosaurs die? And so you have to try to figure out how to explain that. And then sometimes she's like, why do those people live in tents and why can't they move into the building on our street? And I'm like, you are almost trying to like always think about like how to respond to things, whether they're like small things or big things. And it also just makes me think about like how to make the world a better place for like, not only us, but also like our kids and like the people, you know, the new generations. Like it's obviously like we're living in like a hellscape right now, and I don't wanna live in this place, but I also don't want like my grandkids or like anyone's grandkids to live up here. So it's always just thinking and reflecting on like the small and big things and how to deal with issues and how to explain them to a child who doesn't really get it. So it's, it's super interesting. It's honestly, if you ever wanna think a lot, just like be around a child, it's always very interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I feel like children could also help with copy because you can, you can get curious with them, I feel.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I was actually talking to someone about this recently and about specifically about writing clear copy and copy for people who like, maybe English is a second language or something like that. So , um, recently my daughter, her name's Amelia, she has started like calling us on stuff. Like, like I'll be like, oh, like I'm just gonna throw up your hair. And she's like, mom, like, don't do that. Like, be gentle with my hair. And I'm like, no, no, no. Like, that's not what that means. Like , it , it means, you know, I'm just gonna like quickly put your hair up or you know, Lena will be like, I'm just gonna ride to the store. And she's like, daddy , you can drive the car . And I think that helps me realize those conversations that like, not everyone interprets the things the same way. And so like focusing on like, again, being clear and being specific and saying what you mean, instead of making her think that, you know, you're gonna run all the way to the store and like carry all the groceries back. Like ,
Speaker 3:That's actually such a good tip. Also, the , the theme of this podcast is clear and specific. Yes . Which should be everyone's copy. What is the best advice that you've ever received? Something
Speaker 2:That I think about a lot is don't be afraid to quit. I think especially as a business owner, obviously there are times when you shouldn't quit. Like when my parents, I was trying to quit my master's degree and my parents were like, don't, like, like, no, you're not allowed. Even though they had like, no stake in the matter. So that was like a good, don't quit. But I think so often, like especially in business ownership, we are so attached to the things that we create that it's like, is it like I shouldn't quit? Like I spent so much time on this. Like, for example, earlier this year I launched a membership and I decided to quit after two months because I was like, this is fun and this is great, but honestly like , don't feel like it is what I want to be doing with my business even though it's what I thought I wanted to be doing with my business. And so I quit it and I felt bad about it, but I was also like, listen, it's not something that I wanna do. Like my heart is not going to be in it and it is going to be better for everyone if everyone has the opportunity to go out and figure out something new to spend their time on, including me. And so I feel like I have just stopped being afraid to quit things if they're not aligned, obviously. Like, do not quit things if like you have like a contract that you like can't get outta market , anything like that . <laugh> quit within reason. But like, if you're doing something in your business and it's just not working for you anymore, it's okay to stop doing that thing. Like, you don't have to keep doing that thing just because, and , and you don't have to feel bad about doing that thing. Like I feel like I see people who are like, oh, like I quit doing my podcast and I like feel really bad about it . I'm like, okay , like maybe you put it for now or maybe you put it forever and that's, that's fine. Right. If it's not working for you, it's for it's not working for you. Right. Yeah . You can't post
Speaker 3:It. Exactly. And nothing ever comes from forcing things most of the time. No , that's one thing. And the other thing is it's like, it's all feedback. Yeah . So your membership is a great example. 'cause like you learned what I always think of it, I always think of dating. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . This is like my advice that I give everyone is like, I always thought of dating as deciding what I do and don't want. So if I had a really terrible date, I was like, well, I know this is a red flag for me. And I think that a, in business moving quickly is a good thing. So if you move quickly and you start something and then it doesn't work, you can switch and that's a good thing. And then the other thing is, is that you learn a lot from it rather than if you had sat with that membership idea for 10 years and never did it and wondered what if you've done it, you know, and then you can move on. And I think that that's, that's a good way to keep going and keep moving forward and like really honing in on that dream life that we're all creating.
Speaker 2:Dream life.
Speaker 3:Yes. <laugh> ,
Speaker 2:Our new peanut better . Our new merch <laugh> .
Speaker 3:I know, right? I'm like, this is good. Maybe I'll make merch next year. Maybe that's on the, maybe that's on the thing. If you want that, send me a message and we'll , uh, <laugh> we'll work on it. Where can people find you? How can they work with you? Tell us all of the things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm always, I shouldn't say I'm always on Instagram. I'm usually on Instagram. Um, you can find me at by coin or on my website www.bymariopoint.com. Um, so as I mentioned, I'm a website copywriter. I specialize in obviously website copy and email marketing, blog posts, all of those fun things. Um, so yeah , that's where you can find me. Come hang out with me. I love having chats about ethical marketing and just being clear and specific, obviously in your copy. I also love seeing reels. Please send me all of your good reels content. I will watch it a lot. So yeah, that's, that's where you can find me. I'd love for you to come hang out with me.
Speaker 3:I love it. Thank you so much for all of this. Maddie , I'm so that you were here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. This was so fun.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Thinking About Podcast. I hope it got you thinking and keeps you thinking for days to come. If the episode inspired you, excited you, or gave you something to think about, please feel free to send it to a loved one or a friend. And if you really loved it, you can leave us a rating or review wherever you get your podcast. It helps the show grow, it helps us tell our guests how important they're to you. And of course it lets you help me know what keeps you thinking so we can bring on amazing guests. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next week.