Today, we're thinking about creating your dream day and why following what other people are doing isn't necessarily going to get you there with CLEO Social Co-Founder, Blair Mlotek.
Blair is a writer, social strategist, and the co-founder of Cleo Social - a social media agency focused on growing organic online communities. After years of freelance journalism and managing clients in the communications agency world, Blair realized that one place always brought the highest success rate to her brands: social media. Now, along with her amazing team, she continues to work with brands to grow their audience and continuously build a relevant customer base.
Cleo Social is an everything-social agency based in Toronto, focused on organically growing your brand on the social media platforms that matter most.
In today's episode, we discuss:
CONNECT WITH BLAIR
On LinkedIn
Follow CLEO Social on Instagram
Visit CLEO Social's website
Hosted by @kirstimcnabney
Find links, inspiration and updates on @thinkingaboutpodcast
This episode was edited by Amanda Wan of Wan Media
Today, we're thinking about creating your dream day and why following what other people are doing isn't necessarily going to get you there with CLEO Social Co-Founder, Blair Mlotek.
Blair is a writer, social strategist, and the co-founder of Cleo Social - a social media agency focused on growing organic online communities. After years of freelance journalism and managing clients in the communications agency world, Blair realized that one place always brought the highest success rate to her brands: social media. Now, along with her amazing team, she continues to work with brands to grow their audience and continuously build a relevant customer base.
Cleo Social is an everything-social agency based in Toronto, focused on organically growing your brand on the social media platforms that matter most.
In today's episode, we discuss:
CONNECT WITH BLAIR
On LinkedIn
Follow CLEO Social on Instagram
Visit CLEO Social's website
Hosted by @kirstimcnabney
Find links, inspiration and updates on @thinkingaboutpodcast
This episode was edited by Amanda Wan of Wan Media
Welcome to the Thinking About Podcast, your digital equivalent to late-night chats with good friends to keep you thinking. I'm Kersi, and together we'll join interesting people for deep, meaningful conversations that will help elevate our lives, leave us with actionable outcomes and keep us thinking for days to come. Hello and welcome back to the Thinking About Podcast. I am your host, kersi McNabby. Remember two weeks ago when I had a silly little sore throat, while that manifested into two terrible weeks of COVID? And now I'm finally reemerging to start the new year. Today, on Monday, january 22nd, is my official beginning of 2024.
Speaker 1:During my illness, I spent a lot of time sleeping, but I also spent a lot of time thinking about my dream life. I spent hours on Pinterest because, quite frankly, watching people live their lives on Instagram was a bit too triggering for my couch bound self, who had to sleep 18 hours a day, so I made boards and created the vibes on Pinterest instead, which fits quite nicely into today's episode, we are joined by my friend Blair. She's an outstanding powerhouse of an entrepreneur, which I'll tell you about in a second, but first and foremost, I want to tell you that she's my friend, because she's a really good one, a friend who showed up, as you'll hear in the episode, quite randomly in a LinkedIn DM and has significantly improved my life ever since. She asks me deep questions. She supports me on so many levels, especially in the summer when I was having a literal breakdown about my life. We laugh a lot when we hang out and she inspires me constantly.
Speaker 1:I've been watching a lot of Josie Balka Hopefully that's pronouncing her name right Poetry videos on TikTok lately, which have had a chokehold on me for at least the past month. I literally will like sit on my couch and cry to them for hours and then send them to all of my friends. If you haven't had her come across your page, I will make sure that I leave it linked below for you, because I don't know that there's a human that has spoken more beautiful words than she has. But she talks about friendship a lot Special moments shared between friends, old friends that you lost touch with, and how hard it is to make friends. And whenever I'm caught thinking about friendship especially as it adult, because I know that that can be hard for a lot of people Blair comes to mind as a shining example of people coming into your life right when you need them.
Speaker 1:So I really just wanted to take a moment to appreciate that, outside of being a great friend which I promise that I will explain why I brought that up shortly Blair is a writer, a social strategist and the co-founder of Clio Social, a social media agency focused on growing organic online communities. After years of freelance journalism and managing clients in the communications agency world, blair realized that one place that always brought her the highest success rate to her brands was social media. Now, along with her amazing team, she continues to work with brands to grow their audiences and continuously build a relevant customer base. Clio is an everything social agency based in Toronto, focused on organically growing your brand on the social media platforms that matter most, and it's also the home of the most amazing group of people ever, some of which you hear on this podcast sometimes, so I'm very excited for Blair to be here.
Speaker 1:On top of being a very smart entrepreneur, blair has continuously asked me what my dream life or day looks like since we first met. It's a question that hadn't ever been presented to me by someone I'd recently met before, and it has continued to keep me thinking ever since. You'll also, if you listen to the podcast, hear it a lot because I bring it up all the time to like everyone I talk to. As you'll hear, in the episode over drinks, blair and her best friend Irina decided to take a step toward their dream days, starting Clio, and have watched it grow ever since. Heading into the new year. I wanted to give you a chance to think about what your dream day looked like, so that you could consider it if you were thinking about your intentions for the year. And, better yet, I wanted you to have an example of what it means to you, not to the goal list that you're finding online or the 5,000 things on your to-do list or the things that you think you need to do. And there is no better person in my life to explain this to you and give you realistic examples of how it can be done than Blair.
Speaker 1:So today I'm introducing you to her, her story, her brilliant advice, so you, too, can answer the most meaningful question that my friend asks me. I also just want to note that this is essentially a masterclass in building a this generation agency. So if that is something that you're interested in doing, I highly recommend listening to the entire story of how Clio unfolded, because it is brilliant and the way that they're running. It is just like what workplaces should be. If you're inspired by Blair the way that I am, you can continue to find all of the ways to connect with her in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Or, if you feel so inclined, please feel free to leave us a review so that we can help the show grow and show Blair how amazing she is. You can literally just scroll on down to the bottom of your Apple podcast page and leave a little review to tell us how we did. That would be super helpful if you have a moment. Thank you for listening. Happy fake New Year to me, and you and I will chat with you next week as we live our dream lives and dream days. Welcome to the Thinking About Podcast. We start every episode with what you are currently thinking about because, as you know, this isn't thinking about podcasts and we often are thinking about a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. This will probably not surprise you a lot, because I'm always thinking about what my dream life looks like as you know, but thinking about the beginning of the year, there's obviously a time for reflection.
Speaker 2:I was thinking a lot about the fact that we're always made to be making these realizations end of the year and plans for the next year.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's really annoying, right, like you're sometimes like, oh, I don't want to, I don't want to be thinking about what's going, what I want to do differently this year and for work, obviously you kind of have to especially like ask if you own your own company and you have to be in charge of your own work efforts. So there's that aspect of it. But for my own life this year I've kind of just been thinking you know what I like, how it's been going. Do I really have to be thinking about what I want to do differently? But then I think, you know, I do like to think about a little deeply and I thought one thing I could do differently next year is, you know, you can always think about being a little bit kinder, like when things are hard, and also, you know, because the end of last year was a difficult time for my community, just giving them more of my time and efforts and just thinking about, like how I can positively impact in that way. So that's kind of what's been on my mind.
Speaker 1:I love that. I really love just like being okay with where you're at and I'm sure we'll get into that today. But something I've been reading has been talking about 2020 and also I've been watching the morning show and like we lived through this crazy time that if we are happy with life right now, maybe that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think you don't always have to be thinking about what you can do better. I mean, obviously it's great in the workplace, but sometimes I think it's January and that's not your jam. Like you could think about that in September, that's also another time for renewal. I definitely did a little bit of that, but January I'm like, I'm tired, it's cold outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you also have just like spent so much time with people over the holidays that you're like I'm just going to hibernate for a minute. Also I found out today completely unrelated, other than that sentence, but this is so random. But did you know that Barristone actually sleep the entire time that they're in hibernation? I don't think I did, but they do pick it up.
Speaker 1:Apparently they just like their digestive system changes. I have to actually look into the facts because it was a real. But I saw it today and I was like, wow, everything I've ever thought was a lie, because I literally just thought they climbed into a cave.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, we have to fact check everything on TikTok right.
Speaker 1:Right, I know. Anyways, it's just a fun fact that I learned today. So bears are hibernating, but not fully asleep, and neither are we. So, before we get into creating everyone else's dream life, you have very much a dream life that you have created for yourself, which I think is so cool. You are the co-founder of Clio, which is a social media agency, and as someone who works with you and knows you personally, I can say that it's just like so well run and it just feels like who you are as a person, which I think is really cool. Can you tell me and the people listening how you started Clio, what was the moment that you're like this is what I want to do with my life and how you got there For?
Speaker 2:sure, and thank you so much. It's so nice to hear that. So, like I always say when I'm telling the story, is it started the same way? All good things start over a drink with my best friend.
Speaker 2:At the time in our lives I had a working out of PR agency called ANC, which was an amazing place to work, but I was realizing over time how much our clients were asking for social media. So everything we did was influencers that are starting out. The influencer world was absolutely misunderstood at the time. People were just trying to get their handle on it. So we were working on that. At the same time, clients were asking for social media management and trying to figure out how that works and for paying all the stuff.
Speaker 2:And just by chance, my best friend, irina, was actually sort of accidentally thrown into starting her own business because she made a wooden toy for one of her nieces and it turned into this whole Etsy business that actually ended up being so large that she did that for her full-time job and she really sold it through social media when social media was just still a little bit more unknown Right. So at the time we both ended up doing these marketing jobs that we never expected we both didn't need to go into marketing. I think that's kind of common in marketing. Actually, I think my journalism background and she came from a psychology background and here we were both doing marketing and social media. So we just hang out one day, you know drinking, and I was like, should we just kind of do this together? Should we just see if it works? She's like, yeah, let's do it, let's start right away.
Speaker 2:We just did, and it was so fun to do it together. We had other jobs at the time, because I know a lot of people will say you have to quit what you're doing and start your company. But some people got to pay their mortgage. I've never really understood that. We were doing what we were doing and on the side we were doing Clio and it started to roll and work. When I say it worked, looking back I can say, oh, it's working, but at the time we made a lot of mistakes and it was really nice to have my best friend by my side through that. So, yeah, that is the short story of Clio.
Speaker 1:There are so many things that you said in there that I think are key aspects. One of them is the fact that you just went for it, but you didn't give up everything to do that. I think that there are so many people that are telling this story on social I've been thinking about this so much lately but they're telling this story that they have a $1 billion business and one day they just started it and the next day everything was amazing and hunky-dory, just so great. And it is. It is nice to have your own business. It is not super easy. It does not happen in the blink of an eye. I think that it's important in most cases, if you're being realistic, to take your time to do that. Yeah, totally agree.
Speaker 2:Especially being someone who's on social media constantly. I think social media can often tell only a nice, lovely picture. We actually encourage a lot of our clients to not just tell the lovely picture because that's what comes through. But I'm always trying to be really honest about my dream as an entrepreneur, because it definitely was not like, oh, snap my fingers and everything's perfect. I would say we're in our fifth year now and the first time I really saw it fall together was maybe year three and a half.
Speaker 1:Not that it wasn't fun.
Speaker 2:The first two and a half years there, but it was really hard and it still is in different ways, but I love it.
Speaker 1:I think that that's great and I think that it's important to know the highs and lows of it, because if you just hear the one side of the story, you can often not even is it scary to know that there's another side to it. But there's also this moment that you're just like how come everyone is doing this except for me? So I think that it's important to have conversations, that I've learned a lot from having a friendship with you that, like you, can just get people to tell you the realness and you feel so much less alone, which I think is really important. What was the moment that you were like I think this is really going to work out.
Speaker 2:I would say it's when Arina and I decided to stop doing the other work that we were doing. So that was probably a year into starting Clio, when we said, ok, this is taking up our full time and it's taking up our side hustle time, so that's it. And that was a really special moment when we said this is what we're doing all the time, because it's made us enough money that we can do that. Right, and we will talk, I'm sure, today about how I like to measure success, about how you spend your day, not necessarily about money, but you need it to survive, right. So that was a really great moment when we could just say, hey, I guess this is what is working, if it's enough for us to live on. And then that line obviously keeps moving and moving where you say, OK, what's success next time? Oh, our first hire of creating a team, like all these different things that are really exciting. So the goalpost keeps moving, but that first one that we were able to get, it's a good memory.
Speaker 1:I love that and I love the goalpost, because there are new goals that come up and it doesn't all happen in January, so you know we'll just keep going with that.
Speaker 1:You asked me the first time we ever got together which I think was virtual at the time but then you asked me again in person what my dream life was, and that is something that I bring up on this podcast. All the time. I like mention it to people in my day to day life and I think about it so much, especially when I spend time with you, and it's often that you ask me that when I'm spiraling the most, and then I'm like oh yeah, this is actually like the reason that I'm doing this, and so I wanted to start this conversation because I think that it's just like such a nice feel good January moment of creating a dream life that doesn't necessarily look like everybody else's. But can you talk about why that question is so impactful for you? Because I know how much it impacts me, but, like, why is that something that you're interested in asking other people?
Speaker 2:That's a really great question and one that when I ask people, some people take it in a much better way than others. So you've always responded to positively to, but some people, you know, kind of can even get their backs about it because they haven't thought about it and now they're realizing, oh, maybe it's something that is possible for me, is a possible for me to have a dream life. So I think it all started when I started to form this really great group of women entrepreneurs in mostly Toronto, but sometimes, you know, virtually around North America as well, which I think has been really important to me. As you know, an entrepreneur in Toronto and, yes, I have a business partner, but we need other people around us and I also just love, you know, working with women and we're completely women owned and operated and supporting other women. So as I talk to more and more women, I sometimes ask for advice on you know, how do you start our agency? And I love to give advice on this because we were just absolutely flying by the feet of our pants, making mistakes, and that's fine and everything worked out OK. I know how you look at it, but I would, I just love to be able to help people because I just I would have really loved that at the time.
Speaker 2:And often it comes in the form of people that are like OK, I am a freelancer for social media management and now I want to start an agency. And that's my favorite question, because I always go why People are like you're so annoying. But really it's like I'm just going back to thinking what Arianna and I really spoke about when we started Clio and a big part of our conversation at the time. We're about how do we want to live, what do we want out of this? That we wouldn't get somewhere else, because I don't think the only path in life is having your own company, and there's a lot of this, you know. Talk out in the world. I think about that being the ultimate. Like you know, you're a woman, you start your own company. How great it is, and I actually don't like that, even though I'm doing it, because I think you should do what makes you happy, not what you think is the most impressive looking and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So you know, often people think that agency is the next step, but I always like to ask them first what their days look like, and that's because the way that the world works. And don't get me started on the whole nine to five remote versus virtual, remote and virtual and in-person. All that because I think our world, what's created for a world that no longer exists, our business world. So that's a whole other story.
Speaker 2:But I also think that a lot of the jobs we do, you go into it for something you love, like, say, writing, as an example and then you end up being an editor, an editing work, and you end up being a manager of editors and then you're not even editing. So a lot of the time, no matter what you're doing, you end up managing it and you stop doing it, and that's kind of sad for a lot of people because that's what they love. So if you come to me and you're a freelance writer and you want to start an agency, my question is but do you want to stop writing or do you want to manage people?
Speaker 1:Or do you?
Speaker 2:want to keep writing Because a lot of the time freelancers can make a really great living. If they keep freelancing, they can change other things, like you know higher value clients or hiring a VA, for example. Right, huge fan of virtual assistance, shout out to Natalie save my life. And you know there's a lot of other ways to do it. What I realized about myself is that I actually really love managing people and I love creating solutions and I love working with clients, so an agency really made sense to me.
Speaker 2:but it doesn't make sense for everybody.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that that's such a good outlook and it also I've been talking a lot, actually the episode that came out today with Kana. We talked about looking at your goals as values in your life, rather than like wanting 10,000 followers or X number of dollars or something like that, and I think that this is another layer to that of how you want to live. Like what do you want your day to look like? Do you think that that's something that you always understood, or is it something that came as you went through the process of building Clio to what it is today?
Speaker 2:I think it's something I had to learn before I started Clio, because when I was at the last agency I was at, it was an amazing place to work. I loved how I worked with it. I love my clients, it was all great. And I still wasn't completely fulfilled. And you really have to be honest with yourself about why that is. And I think the worst thing we can do is to not be honest with ourselves and like a deep honesty right, because a lot of the time, especially in North American culture, is about the hustle. We think we have to work more hours, we have to work later, we have to work harder, and I'm a big believer in working smarter, not harder. If you can be efficient and get really great work done, that's so much better than just spending the hours doing it. If I would say I did it before, it was cool, but I knew that I really wanted to work at home.
Speaker 2:I wanted to start my day not necessarily working at 9 o'clock.
Speaker 2:I wanted to have a flexibility to work at night, because I'm a night owl and I wanted people to take breaks.
Speaker 2:I work really well in like three hour increments and people who know me and have worked in space and they know, like you can't talk to me for those three hours, like you know I'm very focused but a lot of the time that's not the way the 95 environment works. So I started to think to myself really honestly, like what do I want in my day? And I realized that to achieve what I want I have to do something on my own. So what I think is different maybe from other social media managers and other people that have done their own thing is I didn't actually come to Clio because of my love for social media. I came because I wanted to achieve my day to day that I wanted and then I found something to fit that that worked, along with what Irene and I were good at, and so that's always been from, even when Clio started, was always the goal. And when something comes up inevitably and we get stressed, we always think we started this company to be happy and that's helped a lot.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that that's such a good thing to come back to With your staff, knowing that you created this to live a life that you like. What does it look like as you start to manage other people within your agency who are employees but also want to live their life in their own way? How do you kind of manage that as someone that they are reporting to?
Speaker 2:That's always a conversation I have with people from day one when we're doing the hiring, the interviewing, whatever the process is.
Speaker 2:We always talk about virtual because we first of all need people who are really comfortable working virtual because we don't have an office at all, and we really committed to that once we started hiring people from outside of Toronto and so first they're comfort level, but also to explain to them that we don't expect them to be sitting at their desk nine to five.
Speaker 2:We only expect the work to get done, and I think that's something that is not always the case in a lot of in office or even other remote settings where people are joking about shuffling their mouths, show themselves as active online and whatnot. My hope for my staff is that they're out doing stuff in the middle of the day, if that's what they want. As long as the work is getting done, I don't care when they do it, and I really want them to enjoy that life, and I think the people that have loved working at Clio the most are people that are also benefiting from that kind of lifestyle, and a lot of them do their own thing too. A lot of people have their own podcast, they have their own side hassles and we love to support that, and sometimes those things happen in the middle of the day and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that you are. It's funny that you brought up the change in business and the way that people work now, because I think that you're just such a good example of people talk about it a lot, but you're actually showing up and letting people work the way that I think the world should work. Personally, but I just think that it's so rewarding to give people the flexibility and I feel like, as someone who likes flexibility and it's come to my attention over the years that that's something that's really important to me there's just so much more value and happiness in your life when you get to do the work in the way that works for you. I find it interesting that you're a night owl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm trying to reform a little bit.
Speaker 1:Don't you go to 6.30 AM workouts? Oh no, I do not do that. I go to, maybe like nine AM workouts.
Speaker 2:But that was a bit part of it too, because something that for me I found and maybe this has changed as I've gotten older but I find that I have to finish what I consider the hardest thing in the morning. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but you have to get that thing out of the way. I don't actually not work because I like what I do and I don't find it to be the hardest part of my day. So I find the hard time is actually a lot of my creative pursuits that are aside from work. So like creative writing and working out, like I do think working out every day makes me a much healthier person in my mind and my body.
Speaker 2:But if it's passed like 11 o'clock I'm not doing it. So you know I like to get that stuff done like right away, and then I will. A lot of people I work with know like they might not be online until 10 because from like eight to 10, I'll probably be doing other things. So I used to be like sometimes go to sleep at one or two, get up at nine or 10. So I reformed a little bit to be like a 12 to eight sleeper, 11 to seven, something like that, but it's really because of the way that I've wanted to form my day which has definitely changed like year by year.
Speaker 1:How often do you and Irina come together to talk about, like how it's still working for your lives now? Is that a conversation you're still having?
Speaker 2:It's an interesting time to ask me that, because Irina just got back from her maternity leave. She must be exactly a month now that she got back, so obviously those conversations were a big part of her lives, like in the months leading up to her return. And it actually goes, I think, into a big part of the conversation about your dream life, because from day one, irina and I had the conversation that that was something that was important to her to have that time when she has kids, and we knew that we differed there too, so we had to come to an agreement that made sense for both of us and she was able to take that mat lead, able to have a replacement that I felt really comfortable with, so that nothing really fell off. Of course, it's been amazing to have her back, but I'm also glad she had that time that she needed. So we're we completely regroup, and I think that we're still seeing that, even though our lives are different than they were two years ago we're still finding ways to make it work.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that that's so important and, like coming back to the new year vibes of it all is like I think that reflect I'm starting. Anyone listening to this that has known me for over five years will never believe that I'm about to say this, but I really think that the reflecting moment that comes with new years, or new moments or whatever you want to do, is more important than the setting of the goals that comes after it, that's my hot, that's my, my 2023 slash four hot take, which I old me would be like circling in my grave.
Speaker 1:She'd be like what do you mean? You don't have some hundred goals set yet, and I think that I think that the more that we reflect, it's almost like an experiment. I think, the more that I think of life as an experiment towards what I really want, the more that I can, I can shape it, and it doesn't have to be a goal.
Speaker 2:It can be like something that just shows up with my values, and I like that a lot, and it doesn't have to be in January I know you thought about a lot of things this past summer because that's going to suffer you and you know it doesn't always have to be in a bullet journal. It doesn't always have to be in a LinkedIn post. It doesn't always have to be like a whole you know board of like what you want to do the next year. It could just be a moment where you're like I need to go out for lunch with my friend and talk about this and come back with with an idea. I'm going to be okay with that being enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that's a really important point because it doesn't have to be everything that everyone else is doing, and it's actually funny because I looked recently at my notion board goals of 2023. One of them was get 10,000 followers on TikTok. I was not posting on TikTok. Why was that something I wanted to do, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So I think that the more that you actually do it, when you are feeling the energy to also interesting to think about, like when in your cycle that might be a good idea for for menstruating people I think that that I'm going to have to ask consciously Kate about that. I'm actually going to send her a message after this. So squirrel brain. But I think that if we think about it at that point, rather than like forcing it, it will be more aligned with what our thoughts are. What do you think, because not everyone gets to have a Blair that they get to have lunch with? Who asks us what our dream life is? What are questions that you think people could ask themselves to help align with what it is that their dream life is, so that they can move towards it?
Speaker 2:I always like to actually start with dream day over dream life, because dream life is hard. I actually don't know what my dream life is in 10 years and I'm sure it'll keep changing.
Speaker 2:But I think if you just break it down day to day and just think, you know, I think a lot of people are always focused on the future and thinking that my dream life if you have someone with their dream life is they'll probably say like travel a lot, you know, buy this, buy that.
Speaker 2:And I really think if you break it down to what does your everyday look like, then they'll realize that happiness can come from what you're doing everyday and not from some like big travel adventure or this or that, or like moving somewhere for a year whatever the things are that people often say. And if you really break that down and think about your perfect day, that's a really good place to start. So I would say to you what is your day looking like if you don't have to be doing what you're doing right now? And the second question from that is what do you really love doing when you're working? Look, we all would rather be watching Netflix and reading books than working, no matter how much we love our work, but you have to do something. So you have to do something like what is that thing and this isn't a question, but it's more an advice to fill with the question is you are the last person that needs to lie to yourself.
Speaker 2:You don't have to tell anybody about this conversation with yourself unless you want to, but be absolutely brutally honest. And one thing I was also myself about is that I don't want to work 12 hours a day. I actually would love to work five hours a day. That's a great goal for me and if I can do that and be effective and keep raising my revenue goals and hiring staff and getting great clients, why not? And at this point I'm not embarrassed to say it, but I might have been five years ago. So just be honest with yourself. I would say, through the questions of like your day to day, what you love to do, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that advice. I think that it's so smart because, like, we don't need to lie to ourselves about having 10,000 TikTok followers. Literally, what the fuck is that going to give us? Nothing? No offense to anyone that has 10,000 TikTok followers. I'm really proud of you. It's a lot of work, but I think that that's so good to just like you don't have to lie to yourself. Let's all just take that in. Let's put it on a motivational poster, just joining the gallery wall of motivational things that we're going to remind ourselves. What is your current perfect day? What does it look like in your mind?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I love this. Okay, I'm going to be completely honest with your listeners because why not? I would love to wake up, do some writing like I do now that's a ready part of my perfect day and work out. Right now. I do sometimes work out at home just because of time. So I love to be able to like always go somewhere to do it, because I really like the community aspect of it as well, like meeting people at studios, at gyms and whatnot. So, but obviously there's like the travel time, so it would be nice if you could really go out and do that. And then I love to like afterwards go to the sauna, hang out, take the time to get ready and then hang out with a friend for lunch and then spend the afternoon taking meetings with really interesting people and advancing Clio. So I guess what I'm saying is I want to work out the day.
Speaker 1:I love it. I think that that's. I feel like that's a very reasonable goal as you continue to build and take over the world. Like we are very here for that, Except in winter, I feel like going out for workouts will get harder, but Okay, Just need to.
Speaker 2:Also part of my dream day which is part of like a dream life is to not be here in the winter. So that's also like a big goal for me is to go for a couple months and be somewhere where I don't get seasonal affected disorder would be nice.
Speaker 2:I think that's kind of a fun goal that you can make in the lifestyle that we have. And you know, when you're giving yourself the time for example, even if it's a half day, that's a full day then you know, I think you also give yourself the opportunity to like meet really cool people and have really cool discussions that actually fill you with life, versus like task, task, task, task and that sort of thing. So that's, I feel, like a goal for probably a lot of people.
Speaker 1:I agree, I think that virtual has so many highlights. I was actually thinking about this while I ate lunch today. But, but, like, actually talking to people makes you feel alive and it's funny that you said that, because I was thinking about your answer with your community at the beginning and then how you talked about during workouts how you like to to pick up the community and that as well, and I think that that's a strength that you have very much so and I know that some people I just hear all the time about like articles about making friends as an adult and all of those things, and I personally do not really have an issue with that. We joke about that a lot in our house. Work is like it would actually be better if you stopped making friends at some point. But I won't, because I love it. But if someone's listening, ask someone who is like a very easy friend to make. What is your advice with connecting with new people?
Speaker 2:That is so nice, Thank you. I think that it's really important to make friends at different ages of life because you keep changing as a person and who you were 10 years ago. Even with those friends or the people that will always kind of you best because they knew your whole life, they're not necessarily the same as you are now. So making these new friends, like you find these deep connections you'd have no idea you can make.
Speaker 2:And often, you know, I think that you it's just about not being afraid to speak to the person next to you in the change room, the you know unlinked, and when someone looks at your profile being like hey, I saw you looked at my profile, what's up with that? And you know, there's just a lot of this strange kind of shame. I find that goes along with talking to new people that you know doesn't need to be there and I will tell you the person that was on the other end of the bench or the other end of the LinkedIn connection. I can't imagine their reaction being like why would this person talk to me? It just so far fetched that that will happen. If that is the person they are, you don't want to be their friend anyway 100%, I'm just going to hear what they think of you.
Speaker 2:So you know, those kind of connections I've made have been so powerful and beautiful the last couple of years of my life especially. So I know it's not, it's easier said than done, but I definitely encourage people to just say hey and then you'll end up making plans to go to the class together, to making plans to reach out and go for a lunch together, go for a walk together when it's nice out, and those things really happen naturally once you just say hi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that it's very important for everyone to know that we met, because I accidentally creeped Blair on LinkedIn and then she reached out to me and it's probably one of my favorite friendships that I've made in the last few years. So, like I'm telling you, it works and, as someone who often is the DMR, like it's so cool to have it happen to you too. So, if you're thinking about doing it, just like, shoot someone a message. There are not many people in this world that are doing cool things and working really hard that wouldn't appreciate someone being like I love what you're doing, or or that's interesting, or whatever it is that you want. And if you need some tips, we'll help you out. Just send us a message and we'll make friends with you, 100% Okay.
Speaker 1:So are you ready for the hot take moment, cause I'm very excited about this. Yes, you told me that you wanted to discuss how not everyone needs to have a podcast, and I completely agree and I want to get into it. So we are going to do our hot takes for 2024. I'm feeling spicy today, so let's start with why not everyone needs to have a podcast. This is your moment for your pedestal talk.
Speaker 2:I love it. Things I say to my friend with a great podcast, you don't need to have a podcast. But what I really mean by that, when I say you don't need to have a podcast, what I really mean is you don't have to do all of the things. And for any of our clients that work with me, they'll be surprised that, as someone who's supposed to be selling them on social media, how much I pull them back from things Like oh no, you don't need to be on that platform. No, you don't need to do 100 reels a month, you don't need to do all these things.
Speaker 2:And the reality is that if you especially speaking to like a sole printer, freelancer kind of person who isn't yet ready to get any help and hire them if you try to do all the things, guess what You're going to burn out and then you'll be doing none of the things. So I think, really focusing on where you need to go yes, of course I believe content is clean. It's what I do all day. I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't believe it, but you really have to focus your effort somewhere. So for you, hersey, your podcast was something you started with and then you kind of built your business along with that. That's really cool and a really great story For some people. I find they have something they're really interested in and they start a podcast about that. That's very natural. The meaning is there. You have to really love what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:But I also know that there are some people that sort of podcast to try to get clients, for example, and get awareness stuff like that. It is so much work and I always and because we know I ask annoying questions I tend to ask them what's your return rate on these clients, your podcast? And not that I spoke to everybody on earth, but a lot of them say, oh, like none. So I just think you have to really think about what your goal is. Is it authentic and should you be doing something else? So if blogs are something that you really want to do, maybe do one a month and that's fine. Social media doing your own social media at Social Media Manager is so hard and we're lucky that we're at a point where we can have our team work on it with us. But for a long time it was at Arena and I just posted social media and sometimes we only posted once a week.
Speaker 2:You know, what the world did not fall apart. So really focusing your efforts and thinking to yourself if your goal is getting that first client, then there's often other ways to do that, which is usually referrals, going to events, reaching out on LinkedIn, and that takes a lot less work than a podcast, so you don't have to have a podcast 100%.
Speaker 1:It is such a big commitment of time and energy and thought and admin and social and promoting and all of those things. Don't get me wrong. I love it, but it is a very time intensive way to make money fast and air quotes if that is what you're thinking. There are often people that will reach out to me and they're like I want to start a podcast, tell me everything I need to know about making money on it. I'm like, if that's your goal, even huge names in the podcast game will say that if that is your goal, then you're in it for the wrong reason and I think that that is incredibly important For me. It has brought deep connections.
Speaker 1:There are so many different other things that I think matter, but the other thing that you said about social posting once a week and the world didn't end. You also have a five year old business. Let's just take that in. It's like five years old and you only posted once a week and you're still at the five year mark and it's going strong and I think that we need to be really cognizant of the energy that we have and where things are going to move the needle towards the life that we want or the day that we want, rather than being like I have to have 10,000 followers on TikTok and post on my podcast every week and make sure that that's growing and all of those things. And I think once you pair down, it becomes a lot easier to realize what's working and what isn't. And I would also add to that that if you're trying something and you don't love it, you can give that up. I think that that's permission that some people need to hear.
Speaker 2:Permission to stop, permission to just stop doing the Clinton thing. That's not serving you. I'm not serving you with the results you want or not serving you, because making you unhappy, like just right now, stop it. Yeah, don't do it If you don't like it.
Speaker 1:The other thing. This is just me coming from my social lens. But, like, if you don't like what you're creating and doing, nobody else is going to like it. Yeah, 100%, that's very true. If you're bored with it, it's going to bore everybody else and it's not worth your energy and it's not going to pay off in the way that you want is my humble opinion on that. So, hire Cleo. This has been. I just love this. I love talking to you because I get so fired up about so many things. What other hot takes do you have for 2024 that can give people permission to do things or not do things?
Speaker 2:Not do things. And to do things, I would say also along my permission to stop, permission to start and permission to just start when you don't feel ready.
Speaker 2:I think, that's something I also talk about a lot with people that are thinking about doing something. Stop thinking about it, just start doing it. And I think we always want this perfect website. We always want this perfect logo and this perfect this is perfect. That actually just start and things will fall into place a lot of the time. And if you have I keep talking about clients, I'm thinking we're service based. Obviously it's a little different if you're selling a physical product, but if you have your first client from a service based business, they may not care that you don't have a website groundbreaking, I don't know hot take.
Speaker 1:Truly, I didn't have a proper website until like this summer and it's not even done. It's literally one page because I haven't had the time to do it. And like I actually talk to people about this, a lot People will ask me. This is very lucky and I feel very grateful for this. But often people will be like, oh, I want to work together and I always like, do you want examples of my work? Like, do you want to know everything there is to know about me? Like, let me send you 25 examples of what I can do. But I think that there's this vision that people think that they have to be if they're, if they're starting out, or if they're freelancing, or if they're having a business or whatever it is that you're doing. And like you can just do it one step at a time and realistically it's always going to be one step at a time and the sooner that you accept that, the sooner that you can can move forward in it rather than just thinking.
Speaker 2:Did anyone ever say to you why don't you have a website? Or did it ever stop you from getting work?
Speaker 1:No, not a single person other than like I don't know friends that we're telling me that I should have one. I was like, yeah, I'm too busy, but thanks, which is a great problem to have, but no, it never. It never made an impact on whether or not people wanted to work with me. It's good to have examples and show people what you can do, but you also can't get examples until you start.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:Permission not have a portfolio Exactly. Permission to figure it out as you go, because that's what's going to happen regardless.
Speaker 2:I like how our hot takes turn into permissions. I think it's because of your permission to pivot event. I'm still thinking about.
Speaker 1:I think so too. I think that everyone sometimes needs permission from other people and you don't actually need there's my hot take you don't actually need the permission, but sometimes it feels like a nice warm hug that, like, maybe we need. You know, I also wanted to start this podcast in like 2016 and it took me until 20, 22. I don't even know what the years are anymore, but, like, if you are listening to this I think this is something I think about. A lot when I'm talking about this Is if you're listening to it and you're like feeling bad that you haven't started yet. Sometimes you have to wait for the right time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean hot take, it's never too late.
Speaker 1:Yes, you could be a hundred and five and start something if you've made it that far, and I hope you all do.
Speaker 2:I hope people keep doing.
Speaker 1:I hope I keep doing new things my whole life, not the rest of you, me too, and Actually, on the episode that came out today, she said this was one thing that I it's something that's gonna stick with me for a long time, but living your life as an expert is gonna be a boring life. I was not the exact exact Way that she said it hers was better but I think that that's such good advice and it makes me excited to try new things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure there's. I mean there's a lot of things you learn. We started business and I always joke about all things I didn't know. And you know NBA of life and all those things people say. And yes, a little bit of it is frightening because you know there's legal things in a ball. There's, you know, taxes involved or things you have to do right, but you're gonna be okay, you know, you just learn it and you just do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and having great people in your community like Blair makes it a lot easier, especially if you're by yourself. Get a friend who can help you feel you're not alone. Is my advice Okay, ready for every episode questions yes, I'm excited. First and foremost, we love a recommendation. What are you reading, listening to or loving? Usually, I say lately. It doesn't have to be lately, it can be any time that you would recommend.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give you a non-work response. I Already mentioned something one time since we started talking, but anyone knows me knows I love rom-coms, I love reading them, I love watching them, I love writing them. It's you know, it's my hobby and Also you know it's some. It's okay to do something that gives you comfort and that makes you happy and that isn't just a podcast or a book that makes you feel like you advanced your career. So I started Sophie can sell his new book, burnout. I just started it, so I don't know if I recommend it yet, but I usually think for books are great, so I probably could safely recommend it. And it's so funny already because there's this intense startup culture that this person works in. If anyone has worked with startups or at a startup, it's like a very extreme version of it. I've been cackling just like reading through the first chapter, so that's the one I Am going to get that immediately.
Speaker 1:I just started in five years and it's pretty good so far.
Speaker 1:I wasn't a bit of a slump, but I've picked back up. I read the Brittany. While I didn't read it, I listened to the Brittany memoir and I read the silent patient in the last week. So I'm back to being a reading girlie, which I'm very proud of because it has been a minute. Yeah, we do need a sidebar. We have to have a whole conversation. Might have to have a whole lunch, to be honest. Also, they should be sponsored by fresh and just gonna throw it out there right now, because all of our meetings and brainchilds are born out fresh. So if you're sponsored thirsty.
Speaker 1:So that we can go and have more food there. Thank you, okay, it was. What is your favorite thing about yourself?
Speaker 2:I would say Perspective, and I'll tell you, just like a really short story, as to why I say that a lot of people I've worked with Over my full working career have called me things like calm or relaxed or like some word like that. And I always think it's so funny because I don't necessarily feel that way and I don't really know like what I'm doing. That Puts that out into the world. But over time I've realized it's really perspective and it's really that when someone calls me and they're freaking out or something's going on, I'm always thinking, okay, what's the solve for this? And when it comes to a work at least there's always a solution. That's my perspective on it and I think you can take that to life too. Like life, sometimes there isn't a solution, of course, but I still think you can have perspective.
Speaker 2:So a lot of again, tough things going on in the world right now. Really easy to be angry Really fast. You know reactions on things, but a lot of time I try to take a step back and take perspective. How lucky am I that I live in a city with a really knees than community?
Speaker 2:a lucky my that I went to an event and they were all there together feeling each other's energy, like how lucky is that? And even though I don't always believe in luck, I think a lot of things you know in life versus work do come from luck, and just have a little perspective about them. I.
Speaker 1:Love that. That's such a good answer and it it does very much give who you are as a person, because you are extremely calm. I remember when I worked in events, everyone would like be like, oh, you're so chill and I'm like, well, what am I gonna do? Like yell at you and be like, oh my god, what are we gonna do? I'm like it's literally my job to find an answer right now, and then I'll go home and cry about it later.
Speaker 2:Someone's crying about marketing somewhere in the world in every minute.
Speaker 1:Every minute every second of the day, but that's why you need some perspective in your life and then you will be able to keep going. Who is somebody that keeps you thinking?
Speaker 2:Okay, at the risk of being really cheesy, it is definitely the ladies of Cleo. You know, when I think about people that keep me thinking every day oh, my goodness, these people keep me on my toes and if you ask me five years ago if I had could find eight people that care about Cleo the same way that I care about Cleo, I would have called you crazy, but it really feels like they do, and every single day, without fail, someone's going oh, what if we did this differently? Oh, did you hear about that? Did you see this post? Did you see this? And it absolutely keeps us going and keeps us changing, keeps us with this like updating social media world that's constantly going and it makes sure that we're doing as good a job that I expect us to do myself, and quality is really important to us. So to see that everyone else cares as much as we do is just really great, and they absolutely never let me stop thinking, and I love it.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I'm gonna step away from our every episode questions because obviously I I don't usually do this with most people, but I'm doing it with you and hopefully you're appreciating it. How do you find people that that fit well in the culture, because you've done an exceptional job of it?
Speaker 2:Thank you. You know it's one of the things that I haven't asked a couple times recently and it's so hard to answer because I don't fully know. But I do think you know I'll give you kind of a more Wish. You watch the answer. I'll give you a real answer. So the kind of wish you watch you when is.
Speaker 2:I do think what you put up into the world Comes back to you and you know, if you're putting yourself out, even on LinkedIn, or you're meeting people, people will come to you and work will come to you. Money will even come to you, like a lot of things will come to you if you're putting you know that out into the world. But I do also think that I had to make a lot of mistakes on the way to figure out how to get the spray team, and part of it Comes from being untraditional. So you know, on the one hand, you know there's a couple full-time staff we work with, honestly all found from referrals. So referrals just win, like people who work with them know they're great. Now we work with them.
Speaker 1:They were right. They are great.
Speaker 2:So that is an answer. There's always work, because you don't always have someone to give you the referral, but you can always ask and then you just ask everyone you know, like you know someone and and, unfortunately, like there's often people that are out of work for different reasons and people are looking for different reasons. Or they'll say I don't know this person's looking, but just ask them. And I actually coached a couple people also because I'll call them you like, okay, but are you happy?
Speaker 1:You dream? Life too and then you're in.
Speaker 2:So you know that's kind of another thing. And using a lot of contractors. I think there's like this old school way of thought that you need to have full-time staff or you know consistency for your finances or you know whatever the reason, and I just reject it. Like some of our best people we work with are contractors and they do not want to be full-time. I've asked them some of them and that's okay and it's better to have two contractors than one full-time staff. It doesn't really want to be there.
Speaker 1:That's great advice and I do feel like I think that Clio, as a business With your outward facing so on social, the things that you do on blogs, whatever is very like true to who you guys are, and I think that that's that's a really nice Point, because I've been talking with friends a lot about getting jobs, whatever, and like it's rough out there for some people. There's a lot of red flags immediately and I think that there's been the shift. This is like a whole other conversation, but I think that there's been this shift where, like we're not taking shit anymore Just because we have to have a nine-to-five job, and so I think that it's nice that that you are true to who you are as people and you're like really upfront about things, and it's just great, it's nice to see and it gives me help for the future of a corporate working environment.
Speaker 2:That's so nice, thank you.
Speaker 1:I know I'm I'm so glad and not that nothing.
Speaker 2:You asked me a question, but you know I'll just say to that that it's not on purpose. I think that's a big thing, too, that people think you need these like big plans, but we're a small company, we only have so much time, and I often get comments like that, even from potential clients, like oh, you're so honest. Oh, I'm like I'm really not Playing a game right now, like this is just who I am, and it goes and the team ends up being the same and the Posts on, you know, linkedin or Instagram end up being the same, like I'm not trying to do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're just. You're doing what you should be doing and it's working, so congrats on that. What is the best advice you ever received?
Speaker 2:The best advice I've ever received was way back when I had my first staff at camp. I worked at a camp called Camp Green Acres for 10 years and when I first was going into being a unit head and I had, I don't remember, like 20 staff or something, I went to the camp director, who I was pretty close with at the time and I was lucky to be that close to him, named Darren, and I said Darren, what do I do? Tomorrow they're all gonna be here. I Was 19 and I was like what do I do with them? And he was like okay, just give them respect and they'll respect you back. And I have never forgotten that and I still talk to him and I've told him that I've led that through my career till now for sure.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that respect is everything. I talk about it a lot with my relationship because I've learned from the relationship that, like Respect, is one of my biggest values ever. Sometimes I look at the way people treat other people and I'm like I can't even believe that this is for real. So bringing that into your business environment is Is key and you can feel it. You can feel it through your conversations with everyone and I love that. So everyone, pick that up and bring it into your lives. Whatever that dream life is Okay. My final question and then you've made it through the gauntlet. Where can people find you? How can they work with Cleo? How can they read all of your stuff? Tell us all of the things. This is your moment.
Speaker 2:Love it. So you can find us at Cleo socialcom. So we're C L E O social comm. You can find anything about us need to know there. We're also Cleo social artists are handled for Instagram and for LinkedIn. I'd also would love for you to connect with me on LinkedIn. Just my first and last name and you know I post there about what we're doing and you can definitely message me or keep one of my page. I'll probably message you back because, as we know, that's a thing that I do. So check us out and I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:I love it. Thank you so much for being here and Bringing all the Blair wisdom, because everybody needs more of it in their life.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the thinking about podcast. I hope it got you thinking and keeps you thinking for days to come. If the episode inspired you, excited you or gave you something to think about, please feel free to send it to a loved one or a friend and if you really loved it, you can leave us a rating or review. Wherever you get your podcast, it helps to show growth, it helps us tell our guests how important they are to you and, of course, it lets you help me Know what keeps you thinking so we can bring on amazing guests. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next week.