The Photographers Journey to Overcome Fear with Marc Silber

#338 Marc Silber is a five time return guest and photography author of the new book Create: Overcoming Fear to Unleash Your Creativity. Today Marc shares with us how fear can stop us from being our most creative self as a photographer and how to overcome it. Mark also talks about journaling and how he practices visualization when taking photos and how mornings are the best time for him to be creative.

The Big Ideas

• Visualize quickly and act.
• Visualize your creative ideas.
• Go out and shoot.
• Try different things and learn.
• Visualize and experiment.
• Learn your tool better.
• Practice falling to succeed.
• Photography is a numbers game.
• Grow through critique and community.

Timestamps

• 00:00:05 Visualize before taking photo.
• 00:13:07 Visualize, then create.
• 00:17:05 Be patient and persistent.
• 00:21:04 Find your creative purpose.
• 00:28:00 Visualize and create impactfully.
• 00:37:30 Learn your tool well.
• 00:47:57 Practice falling to succeed.
• 00:49:11 Ignore the haters, keep going.
• 00:56:05 Grow through community critique.

Pick up Marcs new book - https://amzn.to/3Z1uJ2s

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• Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
• Get your Photo Questions Answered on the show - https://beginnerphotopod.com/qa
• Grab your free camera setting cheatsheet - https://perfectcamerasettings.com/

Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Transcript

Marc Silber: 0:00

I found, Raymond, there's a, kind of some misconceptions on this, so it's good to talk about it. Ansel Adams said the whole key to a photograph is that you visualize it before you press the shutter. Now, that can be misinterpreted to mean, wow, you sit around, you think about it for a long time, and it's a really slow process. Listen, you can do your visualization in a split second. I'm walking along, I look over, and I see there's a dog running. on the beach If I stand over here about 10 feet, it's going to run right in the path of the sun. It's going to be a really cool photograph. It's that fast. So visualization can occur at any amount of time.

Raymond Hatfield: 0:43

Hey, welcome to episode 338 of the Beginner Photography Podcast brought to you by Cloudspot. The easiest way to deliver and sell photos on line. I am your host, Raymond Hatfield. And today we are chatting with get this five time return guest, Mark Silber about how to overcome fear and live a more creative life. Now, for the past, few years, during these slower months, I grab Mark's workshop of a book called Create. And it reinvigorates the creative side of me that, sometimes just gets lost in the busyness of daily life and whatnot. Well, Mark has just released an updated version to the same book called Create, overcoming fear and unleashing your creativity. And guess what? I am going to be giving away a copy of Mark's book for free to one lucky email subscriber. You don't have to pay for shipping. You don't have to pay for anything. I'm just going to send it to you. So if you haven't joined the beginner photography podcast newsletter already, you can do so by heading over to the homepage at beginner photography podcast, Dot com, where you are going to see a download for my popular photo guide called picture perfect camera settings. Inside of that, it's full of information on 10 popular types of photography, as well as real world settings that I use to capture those photos. And when you download that, you're going to be automatically entered to win your copy of Mark's new book. So do not wait now with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's podcast interview with Mark. Mark Silbert. Guess what? You are officially the first five time return guest of the podcast. I know. Yeah. This is something that I was thinking about just right before we hopped on. I thought I've talked to Mark quite a bit, on the podcast and it's always fun. I love having you on the podcast and hands down, you are one of the listeners, favorite guests as well. I think for a lot of reasons, one. You have a lot of, obviously experience and you use that experience and kind of turn that into, practical knowledge in a way that is not very. Pretentious, right? And I think that that's why you resonate with a lot of people. but obviously having been on the for previous times, I know about your beginnings in photography and if anybody else wants to, they can go back and listen to those podcasts. So I want to know today in your everyday life. Creativity is a very important thing for you. So it is, when do you feel most creative?

Marc Silber: 3:09

Mornings are probably the best time for me. I'm a morning person. I get up the first thing I do before I do anything. I mean, I, I have a coffee machine. I press the button, it grinds the coffee. It makes perfect. I'm up. This is my absolute pleasure in the morning. but I, before I do anything at all, I study. For our hour and a half, I get my fix of what I need to really look at. And then the second thing I do is I journal. And these things are literally before I talk to anybody else other than Mumble or something.

Raymond Hatfield: 3:44

Of course, yeah.

Marc Silber: 3:45

These two things have been part of my life for so long, because journaling is important for me to set my goals for the day, or even look at things that happened in the previous day that didn't work out, right? Because life is definitely not perfect. No. And how could I deal with that better? But then from there, I like to charge out and that's, that's my prime creative time.

Raymond Hatfield: 4:09

Wow. So, in the morning, it sounds like obviously you kind of have the, routine, which takes a little bit of that brain, mental power away from you. Right. so you get to do the coffee and then it's time to, I want to say. is the point of going through and doing some research, to kickstart flames, as they say, of getting into that creative mode? Or is that the role of the journaling?

Marc Silber: 4:30

Well, both of them. but definitely getting my mind wrapped around some new concept opens the door, In fact, I only study as long as I, I go, Whoa, some big epiphany. I went, Whoa, that's amazing. I got to now write about that. And that's where my journaling comes in.

Raymond Hatfield: 4:49

Even if that's like sentence one for you, you read one sentence and you think, hold on, whoa, I was not ready for that. You're done and you're going to get to work. I

Marc Silber: 4:56

haven't, no, I, I wouldn't cut it off that soon,

Raymond Hatfield: 4:59

but,

Marc Silber: 5:00

you know, it's usually around the at one to an hour and a half, something like that. Whoa, I'm my head is exploded here. I'm ready to really look at how to do that. But then more than that, I really try. To take what I've learned and put it into action. Cause at the end of the day, just a bunch of stuff rattling around your head doesn't really change anything.

Raymond Hatfield: 5:22

Of course

Marc Silber: 5:22

it's putting it into action. That's really important.

Raymond Hatfield: 5:25

Yeah. So then the journaling, you get ready with that and then you start putting it into action. Can I ask when was the last time you had one of these big epiphanies of like, Whoa, this is crazy this morning, this morning, tell me about it.

Marc Silber: 5:37

Yeah. It's interesting, you know, Raymond, the struggles we have as creatives It's, we're in a really messed up economy right now. Yes. And that's the truth. I have lived through some messed up economies. I remember, gas shortages and interest rates going up and whatnot, but somehow I don't remember this combination of things being messed up. And, I'm going to give you a real life example. This book that we just released almost died. We ran out of copies. My publisher wasn't going to reprint it. Why? Because there are paper shortages.

Raymond Hatfield: 6:16

There's

Marc Silber: 6:16

all sorts of challenges getting books printed. You have to stand in line and if they decide another book needs to come ahead of yours, you wait. I mean, it's, it's devastating. Yeah, it's the underbelly of publishing right now is not a pretty picture, I gotta tell you. Oh, no. And I literally had to fight to have this book reprinted or put into its next edition, even though obviously it sold out, right? And I actually went to other publishers. They were not even taking on new authors because of these shortages, because there's a paper shortage. And the paper shortage is just a whole concatenation of like, There's a shortage of chlorine bleach needed for paper. It's just crazy. Another weird one is during the pandemic, many paper manufacturers switched. From paper that you would use in a book to toilet paper.

Raymond Hatfield: 7:18

Oh yeah. There was quite a shortage because there was

Marc Silber: 7:20

that big toilet paper shortage. You asked me if anything's off limit. Well, we're okay with potty talk

Raymond Hatfield: 7:27

here.

Marc Silber: 7:28

I'm telling you, these are the realities of what's going on there. So I had to man up and figure my way out of this. It wasn't easy at all. And this is part of the journey as a creative, you have to be willing to fight for what you believe in, and then going back to what I was mentioning in our economy, we all see prices going up on things constantly and shortages and. Lag times to get things printed or print, whatever prints on your wall or whatever it is, it's very challenging. So I'm currently really gearing my, own studies around that. what are the tools that I need to employ To flourish myself as a creative.

Raymond Hatfield: 8:14

You mean if it's not going to be books or if books are difficult to, put into production, what else is going to be the way that you spread your message?

Marc Silber: 8:22

Yeah. I mean, I have my own photography sales. I have my books, I have my courses, you know, and I'm trying to constantly Carry on a dialogue with my audience, through YouTube and through Instagram. But I feel like you and I were talking about this before, it's just a balance of what I really want to talk about versus maybe what else is going on out there. And, I've really made a hard decision on myself. It's like, Dude, just be real. This is what's going on. Be real. And I think that's actually helpful for the listener, the viewer to know one of them. One of my messages in this book was because I interviewed 12 different really creative people. They weren't born with some creative gene, and they were super lucky. And, by the age of 12, they were already a superstar. I mean, there are people like that. But not the people I interviewed,

Raymond Hatfield: 9:21

of course. And I think that's

Marc Silber: 9:22

such a rarity. Every one of these people went through their own struggles and I wanted to make sure that was in the book because we all need to hear that. We need to know I'm just like everybody else. I've got these. Problems that I face, but I do have this passion that isn't necessarily like everybody else.

Raymond Hatfield: 9:44

and that's so important. I feel like sometimes passion is looked at as like, that's the answer. If you just have passion for something, you'll figure it out. And we, as photographers quickly figure out that's not necessarily the case and that it does take a lot of work. but I do want to talk about component. Yeah, exactly. it's a very important component, but I do want to talk about your book.

Marc Silber: 10:05

Passion is like having a flame. It's like having a stove. You can turn on the stove. Does that make you a good cook? Just because you can

Raymond Hatfield: 10:12

turn on

Marc Silber: 10:13

the flame.

Raymond Hatfield: 10:14

Yeah,

Marc Silber: 10:14

not exactly. Right. But if you didn't have that, you wouldn't be able to cook anything, but you have one ingredient. of passion has to be coupled with use of your tools, your vision, all these other things that fit into creativity.

Raymond Hatfield: 10:30

Yeah. The flame. That's a perfect analogy for sure. I want to talk a little bit about your book. I have the previous version. I'm excited to get the new one here on Amazon. So I have some questions, right? Because, this book I told you, I think before we officially started recording that, I go through this book create at least once a year, right? This is one of those books that for me, is one of my favorites. I think I've, Legitimately, I'm not even kidding. You probably purchased 20 copies of this book to give to others because I have found, I have found this to be almost a manual for how to be creative, not only in your creative endeavors, but in your everyday life. And that is what is most important because I know many photographers feel like photography is their creative outlet. And they look at photography as if that's the only place where they can be creative and that's where they feel most free. And I think to myself, no, you can be creative in every aspect of your life, and then you can feel even better about, everything that goes on. But in the book, we'll, I'll make this a smaller question. You break down what it takes to be a creative in every aspect of your life, whatever it is. So of course, we're going use the example of photography here, but I want to know what are the five stages of creativity that you have come up with?

Marc Silber: 11:43

Good. I love this. The first one is called visualization. It's getting a vision. it's getting an idea. Okay, I found, Raymond, there's a kind of some misconceptions on this. So it's good to talk about it. So Ansel Adams said the whole key to a photograph is that you visualize it before you press the shutter. Now that can be misinterpreted to mean, wow, you sit around, you think about it for a long time, and it's a really slow process. And you're only going to do that with, a big view camera on a tripod. Listen, you can do your visualization in a split second. I'm walking along, I look over, and I see there's a dog running on the beach, and I see if I, stand over here about 10 feet, it's going to run right in the path of the sun, and it's going to be a really cool photograph. Now, how many seconds do I have to take that little flash there and put it into action like one? Yeah, and it's that fast. So visualization can occur at any amount of time. The other thing is. Sometimes just having the vision of where you want to photograph is the big visualization. you say, I want to get up early and catch the sunrise, and hopefully there'll be something interesting. You don't know exactly what you're going to photograph yet, but you're putting yourself in that. So visualization is getting the idea before you press the shutter, okay? Number two is knowing your tools. You gotta know your camera. Bob Holmes, a good friend of mine, National Geographic Photographer, he's won Travel Photographer of the Year Award like five or six times. He's amazing. he said, look, don't let the camera get in the way of your photography. So true. how many photographs have we missed because we're fiddling with the camera or looking in the back?

Raymond Hatfield: 13:38

Like he

Marc Silber: 13:38

advises, don't do this. he calls it chimping. Yes. Because every time you're doing this, you're not looking out there. Matthew Jordan Smith, who you interviewed also made a point, like when you're doing this with your model or your subject, you're breaking the connection between you and them. He said, do that once to make sure your exposure is okay, but do not look in the back of the camera again.

Raymond Hatfield: 14:02

Cause at that point you should know your tools.

Marc Silber: 14:04

You should know your tools. Okay, you gotta know your tools. That's your camera, your lighting, whatever you're using as tools comes under that heading. And the next step is capture. Capture is where the rubber meets the road. It means you're going into action. Now, unfortunately, a lot of people stop at two and make a whole hobby out of obsessing with their equipment. Frankly, most of what you see on the internet is about equipment. And it's obsessive. It's like Hey, okay, I get it. Right. Yeah, exactly. find a good setup and go for it. Don't keep obsessing about it. So capture is number three, and that's basically composition and lighting. I wrote a whole book on composition to give people what I call a broader vocabulary. Because I find the many photographers Have maybe three, four, five compositional techniques and they just use them over and over again. Not a very big vocabulary. No, no. So I give them 83 different, tools to use in terms of their composition. But capture also means getting into action, doing it, go to work, you know, listen, photography, like everything else is work, you got to do it. You got to get up in the morning and photograph. You got to stay up late. You got to miss meals. if you're serious about it, you go to work, and it's, unfortunately goes against what I consider the biggest detriment of our modern insta world, which is everything is going to happen in a split second. Ansel Adams talks about waiting nine hours. For the clouds to line up the way he wanted in one of his photographs. Bob Holmes talks about, you find a really great setting for a photograph, but nothing's happened yet. You're waiting for the person to walk into the frame or the dog to run into the frame or the horse or whatever. Something is going to make that thing pop. So you gotta be patient until that happens.

Raymond Hatfield: 16:02

Yeah. And that's always, I can't imagine, honestly. I cannot imagine waiting nine hours for a photograph. Isn't that amazing? It is. It is. I think saying something like that, I think to myself, like, is that me being a lazy photographer or is that like, what does that say about us today? Does that mean that should we all be waiting nine hours for a photograph? Do we have to, for a photograph to be good?

Marc Silber: 17:09

I don't think I've done that, but. I can't tell you what he did in between, as far as I know, he could have gone off and had a beer and a nap. I don't know what he did in those nine hours, but you know, it's his vision. I'm not going to settle for anything less than this vision here. Yeah. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield: 17:26

You know, I guess. Patience

Marc Silber: 17:27

is definitely a key factor.

Raymond Hatfield: 17:29

Yeah. That's what I was going to say. I feel like. If I think about it, there have been times where I've, visualized an image in my head and I've went out to capture it and then conditions just weren't right, so I just ended up like going home for the day. maybe I didn't stay out for those nine hours, but I did come back later to try it again. So I guess we can, you know, maybe if we add those up, maybe I waited 48 hours to take a photo. So, uh, you

Marc Silber: 17:50

might've come back two years later until you saw it, right? There's, there's photographs that I have tried to capture that haven't been right, and I'll. Try them again until I get it. And it might be years in between.

Raymond Hatfield: 18:03

Do you have a whole list of photos that you

Marc Silber: 18:05

want to capture? I don't, but that's not a bad idea.

Raymond Hatfield: 18:08

That's something that I've been exploring recently is figuring out what are those photos that like, get me excited, that fuel me. I think because for so long I've just been shooting weddings that it almost feels like you're just kind of going through the motions and that you have to create images, that have to please obviously your client. But very rarely have I gone out and shot, I think just for myself. And now that. Things are starting to turn a little bit. I've been putting together a list of photos that, that I want to capture. and it's difficult. Yeah, but, the idea came from your book here. I'm being a hundred percent honest because again, it's one of those things where you see something and you can visualize it. And then the question is, what is next? but I got a question for you before we move on here. And that is, I know that, as I was just saying here, I've been doing photography professionally for the past 10 years, and I truly feel like only recently I've been, confident in knowing what it is that I want to say with my images, and that makes it easier to know what I want to go out and shoot because at that point, I'm Now I have a purpose, but in the beginning, I know that it's a lot tougher because, I wanted to go out and I wanted to shoot everything. But when we try to be great at everything, we're great at nothing. So I guess the question becomes at that point, how do we start to know what our purpose is with photography?

Marc Silber: 19:25

That is a really, really good point and good question. I don't have a formula for that because it's really, what's going to resonate for you. What I would say. when I look at myself as a beginning photographer, I kind of photographed everything, like you said. Of course. and then at some point, what happens is, something sort of shakes loose. You go, I really enjoy, for me it was two things, interestingly enough. I enjoyed portraiture, or really what I would actually better term as environmental portraits. People in their own environment, not like portraits. A studio portrait, but they're doing something in their own environment and landscape photography. Those were kind of the two genres that, worked for me. And I guess I've spent my whole life basically with those two genres. I don't do studio work. I You know don't shoot a lot of sports. I don't do a lot of different things, but I do still resonate in those two areas if I had to even pick one of them, I would say the environmental portrait one is even more interesting because there's something about Bambi Cantrell, incredible wedding photographer said, you know, it's the human spirit that's so fascinating. It's that soul that you get when you capture the person, you know? and that's what really sparks for me, but I would say it's a trial and error thing, Raymond. I don't, I don't know of any particular formula, try different things and see what happens. Yeah, one of them will, one or more will click for you.

Raymond Hatfield: 21:01

I remember early on, when I decided that I wanted to get into photography from a commercial standpoint and earn an income from it, there were the kind of two avenues that I wanted to go through. And one was either weddings and one was family photography. And I remember thinking to myself and doing some, YouTube research at the time that there was a lot more potential in family photography. So. What did I do? I booked a bunch of families and, try to do it and try to figure it out myself. And it wasn't until then that I had spent months building up this idea that I was going to be a family portrait photographer. And it wasn't until I got families in front of my camera that I realized, Oh, I actually hate this. This, you know, , maybe I just don't connect with, kids in the way that I had hoped, or, the parents seem very stressed out dealing with kids, and it doesn't, it's not that environment that I want to be in and very quickly I had to change. So, saying that it just takes, trial and error, I completely resonate with that.'cause without it, you can't truly figure out what it is that you want to do until you've actually tried some version of it, in the beginning. So true. I totally get that. I totally get that. It goes

Marc Silber: 22:03

back to that point of visualization. You can get a great idea in your mind, but have to put it into action. In the process like you, maybe you discover that isn't really what you want. Life is. It's largely trial and error.

Raymond Hatfield: 22:16

Let's face it, right? Absolutely. Now, I know that visualization is at the core of, your five systems of creativity, right? I should probably finish those, huh?

Marc Silber: 22:27

Yes, we got to three. We got to three, which is capture for is editing or processing. You know, that's getting on your, whatever your editing platform is, Lightroom, Photoshop, Capture One, whatever it is, you're going to process your image just like we did in the darkroom. It's part of the creative process. By the way, it's really good to separate these. Don't edit and criticize yourself while you're capturing. Ah, that's a big mistake. Just capture, capture, capture, capture. Let the flow go, let the flow go. if you make mistakes, correct it, but Don't get in your head about it separately. You do your editing and separating those two apart are really important because otherwise we're self criticizing and we're just. Stopping ourselves right there. one of the, great creative people that I interviewed in this book is David Campbell, who is a amazing, orchestra conductor. he's produced something like 480 golden and platinum albums. His son is back. Who's a pretty amazing creative himself. And David made this point. Do not get in the way of your own creative flow, let it happen. so that's a really important step of separating those two. And the final step is sharing your work with the world. And if you don't do that, you're going to be unsatisfied. Let's face it. There's nothing more I find. There's no more compliment bigger than somebody buying my work. You can have all the thumbs and likes and comments and everything else. But at the end of the day, when somebody buys your work, you've completed something because you've not only produced something that's pleasing to you, but now you're pleasing somebody else. And that's, I find very rewarding. You don't have to sell your work, but I recommend it. If you can, you should, and you should certainly show it. And put it out to the world.

Raymond Hatfield: 24:31

Hey, Raymond here, and we will get back to the show in just a moment. You know, as a photographer, you want to be able to quickly come up with creative ideas that stand out. So to help you, I put together a list of 46 creative ideas to get you out of a rut that you can download by heading over to creativeimageideas. com. And honestly, even if you're not in a rut, shooting any of these creative ideas in this free ebook will help you to think more out of the box and create something unique and give you that critical real world photography experience. So again, head over to creative image ideas. com to download your free 46 creative photo ideas now. With that, let's get back to today's interview. I couldn't agree with that any more. because, if somebody is going to, vote with their dollars that they like what it is that you have created, That's validation right there. that you're not just creating something, that doesn't mean anything that doesn't impact anybody. And I think at the end of the day, we all want to create something that leaves an impact on somebody. And that is just, that's proof right there. Right. exactly. So, in your book, I brought up the page right here, right? So it's, we kinda have a, uh, a cycle of creativity, right? And at the core, is visualization. And everything else comes from that. it's not the first step to visualization. It is part of every single step, right? That's right. Now, my question is, I think that we, as creatives, specifically photographers, I think visualization is one of the things that we're best at. I think it's a reason why we buy cameras, right? we see a scene, we say, I think that there's something good here. This could make a good photo. And then we try to capture that photo. yeah. And again, that's why many people buy their first camera, but after visualization, Because this whole thing is a hub, what is the next step to making our vision a reality?

Marc Silber: 26:29

Well, it's, again, knowing your equipment. And there you have to visualize, what am I going to shoot? What equipment do I need? if I'm shooting a video, I might use my DJI Osmo, or I might use, Whatever a DSLR, now I've taken my vision and I decide what's going to be the best way to shoot this thing, but then again, it's a visualization, like what lens am I going to use? Well, you kind of get in your mind like, wow, if this was a really wide shot, that could look really cool. Or maybe I ought to get my 70 to 200 out and, you know, be able to, to compress the sun, and that'll look really cool. So that's all part of your vision right there. But each step along the way has visualization connected to it. Like, for instance, on the editing part, you open up your software and what I, I have a class on this. I say, before you move any sliders, don't do anything yet. Look at your image. What do you want to do with it? your vision? Do you see it as a black and white, for instance, which I often do. And I'll, convert it to, uh, so with silver effects pro by the way, from DXO lab, I love it because it makes to me the best rendition of converting to black and white. That looks like what I saw in the dark room. I want really deep blacks. I want really white whites. I want a dynamic range. And I love the fact that they've emulated different films in there. Like one of my favorite go to films was Panatomic X. I even love that name. Yeah. And they have a setting you can use that as a base and then you adjust it. But again, that's all part of my vision, on my editing. And even on the sharing part, what's my vision? How do I, I want this on the wall? Do I want it framed? Do I want it floating off the wall? Do I want to use acrylics and make it really like, you know, so that's all part of your vision. All those, every one of those steps has your vision involved in it.

Raymond Hatfield: 28:37

Now, how often are we, for lack of a better term, changing our vision, right, because we have these ideas. maybe we see something, we try to put it into practice and it's just not working in the way that you set out for it to look, do we abandon it or do we adjust,

Marc Silber: 28:55

you know, that's a really good point because I think we've all had these. Moments where you think, wow, that sunset is just killer. And it's just awesome. And it's going to look great. And then you, then you look at it on your computer and it's like, what is this? Yeah. The sun is like this thing like this. And it's a great example. Just didn't really work. Right. well, I would say you just keep trying until you get it right. there's no limit. How many times can you go back until you find. I had a photograph that I took when I was quite young of, some blades of grass with the sun behind it. And I tried to recreate that photograph. I've never been able to get it like I had at that one moment. Sort of weird. Why is that? I just had it right. Vincent Laforet, great photographer, great filmmaker, made an incredible point. I've interviewed him a number of times. He said the way he works as a photographer or a filmmaker, once he's done something, he moves on. not quite as professional as he is. Disciplined as that, but he really makes a point. okay, I did aerial photographs done. he did tilt shift photographs done, whatever it was, he kind of checked it off and moves on to something else. I'm not like that. I will keep my bag of tricks, maybe try something new, but I don't, I don't like let go of, kind of my greatest hits. I would call them. I know this is going to work. But that's just an interesting Another

Raymond Hatfield: 30:29

viewpoint on

Marc Silber: 30:30

the whole thing.

Raymond Hatfield: 30:31

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, maybe some people thrive in those conditions where they are, thrown into something brand new and they have to think on their feet. I'm like you, I'm still shooting weddings on the same camera that I bought 2016, which doesn't really seem that, that long, but in technological years, I mean, it's a dinosaur. At this point. And it's because I love it and I know it so well. And I'm scared that if I upgrade to something else, it's not going to feel the same, I like that comfort.

Marc Silber: 30:59

You bring up a really good point. And that is one of the biggest changes in our modern world of photography is planned obsolescence. And when I grew up as a young photographer, there was no expiration date on any equipment. None. You could use a camera from. 1920, 1950, I have a Roloflex. It was probably from the 60s. I have a Leica from the 60s. Things did not expire. So, one of the advantages of that, you really could get to know your equipment. Yeah. Like second nature. And one of the biggest traps of our modern world is things change and are being updated all the time. especially if you're changing brands, you've got to learn all over again, how to work this thing.

Raymond Hatfield: 31:44

That's

Marc Silber: 31:44

a lot of time and energy that, that can be a drain in your creative process.

Raymond Hatfield: 31:50

Yeah.

Marc Silber: 31:50

So I don't advise hopping around from camera to camera, to camera, to camera, because you're going to be throwing in confusion into your world. Which is not a good idea.

Raymond Hatfield: 32:02

No. In fact, I find it so hard to watch, people on YouTube who review cameras of, like, every brand because I think to myself, How in the world could you have an accurate representation of what this camera can do outside of just a simple spec sheet, of whatever the exact camera company shots and stuff puts out. And I, find it very hard to trust anything like that. which is very sad, but I think at the end of the day, and it's unfortunate, but I really feel like you have to just get your hands on a camera. And sometimes that can be expensive, but that's, also why I'm a huge advocate of renting gear just to see if you like it. And then you can go deeper, from there. Now, I know that, a lot of the listeners, can feel overwhelmed when learning photography because, there seems to be, a lot of science and math involved into something that is supposed to be just a creative and fun pursuit. and in the book you share of, a story about, leaving room in your cup, right? can you share that story with me and maybe share of a time when your cup might have been too full? Okay.

Marc Silber: 33:04

Oh, that's a good one. There's a, it's an old Zen story. I'll use this as my, you

Raymond Hatfield: 33:09

got the cup. Perfect.

Marc Silber: 33:10

I actually have this in my course. we replicated this. So there was a Zen story, Zen is an interesting word because what it really comes down to is careful looking or looking, it's the ability to look and see the world around you. That's why you hear a lot of photographers refer to A Zen like way of seeing the world. Bob Holmes says that. And what that means is rather than just kind of carelessly looking around, which is one of the greatest things about photography. Like you're on a vacation, everybody else's sort of zooming by things and you're looking, you're really, really taking those sites. And anyway, there was a Zen master, a very arrogant professor came to visit him. And the Zen master was smart. He looked at the guy and he could see this arrogance in his face, right? So the professor said, explain to me, you know, what is Zen? What does this mean? he's sort of challenging him. And the Zen master said, absolutely. But let's first have a cup of tea. So he has two cups. He pours himself a cup of tea. Then he pours this arrogant professor a cup. And he fills it to the top, but he keeps pouring and T is spilling over, just spilling onto the tray that he's got it on. And finally the professor goes, what are you doing? And the Zen master said, your mind is like this cup. It's already full. Anything I try to pour in, we'll just spill out. This is why I advise people when they come to my workshops or they read my books, leave some room in your cup. Don't think you knew if you know it all already. Why are you even bothering? Yeah, right. Good point. What's the point? leave room in your cup. Have I had an experience where my cup. It's an interesting question, Raymond. I kind of pride myself in feeling like I leave a lot of room in my cup all the time. Yeah. I think that's worked really well for me because that's why I have a hunger for knowledge. I'm trying to learn something. I'm not trying. I make a point of learning something every single day. Like I said at the beginning. I'm sure there are. I may not be aware of it, but, uh, you know, there may be areas that you know, here's a good example. You can and I have Get kind of caught in a way of photographing That, I tend to maybe want to shoot the same photograph over and over again because maybe it got a lot of likes or people really liked it or I hung it on the wall and it was, it worked. So in that respect you have to go, wait a minute, Mark, let's do something different here. How can we change that up?

Raymond Hatfield: 35:52

I'm trying to think. of who it was. I just recently listened to an interview with a photographer who, it's going to kill me. Who was it? Anyway, the point that this photographer was trying to make was, when he goes out and he shoots, he's torn by the decisions that are available to us photographers, right? If he brings out more than one lens, every time he takes a photo, he thinks to himself, I should have been using the other lens, and then the idea of, should this photo be in color? Should this photo be in black and white? And there's all these decisions that he makes. And at the end of the day, he decided to sell every piece of gear that he owns, except for one camera, one lens, and decided for the rest of my life, I'm only going to shoot in black and white. And since making that decision, Now, guess we can say that that's a way of learning your tool even better, right? Because now you're sure not only just knowing the camera, but knowing just a single lens and just knowing a certain, color profile or black and white profile about that camera and diving deeper into that. And he said that those decisions have freed him up to be able to go out and see the world a little bit, freer. And. what we were talking about again, before we started recording, it's like, there's, I hear stories like that and it feels so romantic of like, Oh man, that sounds wonderful to just go out and be able to just create, you know, in the sense, but at other times I legitimately need a 200 millimeter lens and yeah. And then

Marc Silber: 37:15

you have it. you shouldn't limit yourself. I couldn't do what you described. look, that's why I broke it into these five stages because your choice about black and white and color can be made in your editing, right? Yeah. I don't even recommend shooting it in monochrome because there's that technical reasons for that. You're going to get a better rendition. If you shoot it in color, then you process it. you've got that choice. why do you have to make it ahead of time? But the other thing is, and you bring up a good point, and this may step on some of your listeners toes, but almost every pro that I have interviewed, And I've asked them about what's your go to lens? What's the lens that you couldn't do without? And it's a 24 to

Raymond Hatfield: 38:00

70.

Marc Silber: 38:00

Workhorse. full frame. 98 percent of my photographs are within that Focal length,

Raymond Hatfield: 38:06

right?

Marc Silber: 38:07

But immediately you go, Oh, what about prime lenses, Mark? You know, aren't they so much better and shouldn't you have prime lenses? this is a, I consider a myth on the internet. why isn't none of the pros are advocating prime lenses because they're very impractical. There's a number of reasons why you don't want to be stuck with prime lenses. Every time you got to switch lenses, guess what happens? Two things. One, now you're not photographing, and two, you're letting dust into your sensor. You're out in the world. you're going to take this lens on my 35, take that off. I decide I want a 70. Okay. There's all that time involved. Dust is getting in your sensor. You've now, you're not photographing. So what's the big advantage in today's world? I mean, there was a time zoom lenses. You know, there was a sacrifice in quality. We've long since passed that. Right,

Raymond Hatfield: 39:01

right.

Marc Silber: 39:02

And so you have the opportunity to have a really great range, not be distracted into this whole equipment thing, and keep your attention where it should be, which is out on your subject and looking for that next photograph.

Raymond Hatfield: 39:17

I see. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. I will second that, that the quality of zoom lenses has gone up even just since I've been shooting. I think the first version of the Canon 24 to 70, I hate it. I thought it was garbage because it was so soft. and it was honestly, it was because of that lens that I. would only shoot my weddings on prime lenses for so many years. but it wasn't until I just recently started to get back into video, had to pick up a 24 to set, well, the Fuji version, what is it? 16 to 55 or whatever that is. And, I thought to myself, wow, this is a whole lot sharper than it used to be. And this is almost a joy to use. But yeah, that is a very interesting thought. I want to move into the next portion of the podcast here, and I brought this up to you earlier. I recently asked the beautiful people of the beginner photography podcast, Facebook community about their fears, right? Because there's a lot of fears that come with creativity. the fear of being let down, all these things. And I wanted to ask. the members of the community, what they're scared of. And overwhelmingly people said, I'm scared of not being good enough. I'm scared of letting people down. I'm scared of making an investment into this, what is right now a hobby, because I want to take it further, right. For fear that it might not pan out. So I got to ask you, what advice do you have for those who are listening and feel that fear?

Marc Silber: 40:43

First of all, you're not alone. I think that's pretty much universal with every creative and that's something to know, even these people who are incredibly accomplished, I've had to overcome that. So I think that actually helps. It goes with the territory. You know, there's this thing called imposter syndrome that a lot of celebrities have talked about which is I don't even know why I've gotten so famous or what's the big deal here, right? I'm not that good. I'm just a guy that can you know, point my camera in the right direction, but I'm recognized for it. So there's that kind of gnawing feeling like maybe and They think I'm good, but I'm not really. And that's kind of the reverse side of this thing. The best advice I can give you is just like sports. You know, you don't not play sports. Cause maybe you're afraid that you're going to miss the basket or I'm a surfer, you know, are you going to miss the wave and you're going to wipe out and lose your board. And it's going to be really stupid. Look. or skiing or any sport has this built into it. You're kind of performing in front of people generally, right? You're not doing this sports by yourself. You might be practicing, but you're around other people. There's a kind of a stage fright thing you got to get over. Just be willing to do it. And it's actually interesting. One piece of advice for Surfing, skiing, snowboarding, things where you could get hurt. I guess skateboarding. I'm not a skateboarder things where you could get hurt. If you fell right, practice falling till you get good at it. if you're a snowboarder, and I do a lot of snowboarding, you should learn how to fall because you're going to fall, just learn how to do it so you don't hurt yourself. And. I think that's a healthy way to approach your photography. First of all, there's going to be critics out there. Just know it. It's like,

Raymond Hatfield: 42:39

can't avoid.

Marc Silber: 42:40

I put that in my book, beware of the vampires because there are critics out there that love nothing more than to suck your blood and the blood that they suck is you, your spirit, because they will go up against anything and Try to destroy it. Well, unfortunately, there's 20 percent of the population out there is in that direction. Just ignore them. It's not easy. It's not fun. I don't like reading reviews that criticize me any more than anybody else does, but you just got to move on. So, grit your teeth, put your work out there. Keep in mind that you can also learn from it. there's a difference between criticism that just tries to tear things apart and getting a critique a critique, and the way I try to critique work is I, first of all, try to point out, I do point out whatever is positive, no matter what. Find the most positive thing in the photograph. And number two, I try to point out what one thing could that person do to improve that photograph. I don't give them 10 things because they're just going to get overwhelmed. One thing that you could do that, Hey, look, and this is how I learned photography. I was given a critique by this photographer that happened to be a patient of my dad was a doctor and one of his patients was named Father Vintner. He was. A priest, and he would take my negatives, print them, and then type his critique on the back of the print. And I remember there were things like, Mark, what would have happened if you'd moved in a couple of steps closer? Brilliant! You know, he didn't say crop it, he said, what would happen if you moved in two or three feet closer? He was right. so things like that you can get critiquing from somebody you really trust who can help you up your game And grit your teeth put your work out there. Yeah, the biggest mistake is not to do it Just like, you know, michael jordan said, he's missed So many baskets let his team down so many times But yeah, here's the greatest player of all time, you know, yeah,

Raymond Hatfield: 44:49

exactly right. Well, he had to

Marc Silber: 44:51

be willing to make the mistakes to

Raymond Hatfield: 44:53

Exactly. Yeah. No, I use the analogy all the time. I'm a big, Dodger fan. I love baseball. So it's like if you hit one out of every three balls that come at you, like you're going to the hall of fame, you know, one out of every three, you're going to have to miss two thirds of them. and, And I mean, I think really when it comes to photography, I've started to, adopt more and more recently this idea of it really is a numbers game, like you can try as hard as you can to get everything right. But the more at bats you get, I guess, the more attempts at a great photo, the more you're going to get great photos, and putting everything in one basket to get one photo, is not as helpful as if you went out and shot 50 times and got one great photo, it's absolutely, it's all the same.

Marc Silber: 45:41

Ansel Adams expectation, I think this is really good. He said, if you add one. Good photograph of month. You're doing great. Yeah. Think about it. After 12 years, you've got 150 photographs that are, worthy of your portfolio.

Raymond Hatfield: 45:57

That's

Marc Silber: 45:58

a

Raymond Hatfield: 45:58

good

Marc Silber: 45:59

expectation.

Raymond Hatfield: 46:00

Yeah. I, at the end of every month, so today when we're recording this, I go through all of my previous month's photos. I put them in a, Lightroom folder titled, the name of the month, the name of the year. and typically there's Two to 300 photos that I put in there now, granted, some of them, many of them are of my kids and whatnot, but I feel like maybe I'm going to go back and try to look through all of these photos and try to find the one photo each month. That is, uh, that's a

Marc Silber: 46:27

good idea.

Raymond Hatfield: 46:27

The best and see if I can see some sort of growth or, Like you said, if I get one photo, like I'll be real happy about that. Cause again, at the end of the day, it is, it's a numbers game. That is so great. I know that we've talked a lot, of ways on how to think creatively today. after listening to this interview, what is the first thing that you want listeners to do to get started thinking more creatively?

Marc Silber: 46:50

Get my book. Perfect plug. I'm going to be very practical about it. I've already done the hard work here. And the thing is, in the book, Raymond, you know this, like after every chapter, there are two things. One, I summarize what's in that chapter. And then I give you practical application. Because the thing is, just like you can't read a book on exercising and consider that you've now exercised, you got to do the exercises, right? Push ups, yoga, whatever it is, swimming. And that's, these are designed to exercise that particular part of creativity. So make sure you not only get the book, but you do do the work within the book. This is what this book is geared around is. is wherever you are as a creative, I want to take you to the next level. So it's all the hard work has been done. And where can we find it? You can get it, on Amazon. You can get it through my website. You can get it through my Instagram. I make it pretty easy to find it. and I'm easy to find cause everything is Mark Silver. You can. Look on Instagram. You can look at my YouTube, Mark Silber. my URL for the, my website is

Raymond Hatfield: 48:06

silberstudios. com. Perfect. And of course, Mark, I'm going to put links to everything in the show notes, as well to where listeners can find you and find the book as well. Mark, thank you again so much for coming on the podcast. I really look forward to keeping up with you and everything that you got going on in the future and have you back a sixth time.

Marc Silber: 48:24

You know, Scott Kelby told me my next time on his show is number five, number five. And he said, he's going to give me a

Raymond Hatfield: 48:31

green jacket when I get to a green jacket. No. Well, good thing I got your address. You might just get a green jacket before you go back to Scott Kelby. There you go.

Marc Silber: 48:41

Anyway, Raymond, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on the show again.

Raymond Hatfield: 48:45

He's a five time guest for a reason because he does not disappoint. Man, I had one major takeaway from today's interview with Mark Well, it was how to critique your photos. I firmly believe that community is the only external source that can help you to become a better photographer. And the big reason is, is because not only do you get eyes on your work to see if there are any, gaping holes that you can fix, right. That you need help with, but also. It teaches you to critique others photos so that you can see what are other people doing. what do you like in their photos? Can you implement that into your photography? What do you see in other people's work that you do not like? It develops a more critical eye, based on your preferences as an artist and a photographer. So hearing Mark's breakdown of how to critique a photo, super welcomed. I love it. And. If you are feeling, willing, I want you to post your photo in the beginner photography podcast, Facebook community this week and ask for a critique. It can feel scary. I get it. I know I've been there, but growth is never easy. Now, let me wrap this whole thing up by saying that this interview does have heavy themes of Mark's book, Create. So if you did learn something from this interview today with Mark, there's a very good chance that you are going to learn and love Mark's book, Create Overcoming Fear to Unleash Your Creativity. And as a reminder, I'm going to be giving away a copy of Mark's book to one lucky email subscriber. So if you are not already getting emails from me, the Beginner Photography Podcast, You can sign up by heading over to beginner photography podcast. com and downloading my free photo guide called picture perfect settings And you will be automatically entered to win now before we go I want to take a moment to showcase Rita who is going to be our listener of the week For leaving the podcast a five star rating and review in Apple podcast Rita says worth your time This is a great place to learn and progress in the world of photography Raymond is a photographer That's me does an excellent job of providing content for both beginners and more advanced photographers Rita You are a rock star. Thank you so much for that review. And if you listening are enjoying the show I cannot tell you how helpful Reviews are if you're listening on Spotify, you can leave the podcast a 5 star rating right there on the show's main page and If you want to get a little more personal, which I recommend, then you can send me a review as a voicemail and I'm going to play it right here on the podcast. Just head over to the contact page of beginner photography, podcast. com. I hope to hear you there. And that is it for this week. Thank you again for tuning into this episode of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by cloud spot, the easiest way to deliver and sell your photos on line. You can learn more about cloud spot and Grab a free account by heading over to deliverphotos. com. And remember, say it with me, the more that you shoot today, the better you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.

Outro: 51:43

Thank you for listening to the beginner photography podcast. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review in iTunes. Keep shooting and we'll see you next week.