The Beginner Photography Podcast

Recharging Creative Batteries with Steven Wallace

• Raymond Hatfield

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#418 In this episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast, I chat with photographer Stephen Wallace about the importance of making work that truly matters. Steven discuss' the impact of blending personal exploration and client work, and how this can lead to greater satisfaction and better results. Steven shares his insights on shooting film and digital, and offers advice on navigating the film versus digital debate. The conversation delves into the psychology behind our choice of subjects, and emphasizes the significance of creating work that resonates with us on a personal level. This conversation will encourage you to prioritize you own artistic vision and not simply follow trends.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Personal Work Powers Growth: Taking time to shoot just for yourself keeps your creativity fresh and prevents burnout in paid work.
  • Process Matters More Than Perfection: Enjoy the act of photographing, regardless of the final image—sometimes the experience is the true reward.
  • Balance Authenticity with Professionalism: Blend your personal style with what clients value by staying open and observant, creating work that’s meaningful on both fronts.
  • Reflection Builds Self-Awareness: Revisiting your older photos reveals recurring themes and helps you understand what draws you in as a photographer.


Resources:
Steven Wallace's Photography Website
Follow Steven on Instagram

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Steven Wallace:

The more I've tried to kind of like segment and divorce my personal work and personal exploration and just even goofing around with the camera from my client work, the less happy I've been with the client work I've been producing and the less satisfied I've been with photography as a whole. I feel like the more I just let it all be just part of this, art form that I love and that I get to do the better work I'm making.

Raymond Hatfield:

Welcome to episode 418 of the beginner photography podcast brought to you by CloudSpot. That's right. The all in one solution to deliver and even sell your photos online. I'm your host Raymond Hadfield. And today Ooh, today we are chatting with photographer, Stephen Wallace. Now, Stephen has been on the podcast before episode 247. He shoots film and digital and, is primarily a wedding photographer. So if you want to check out our last interview that we did all about, kind of wedding photography and, how to know when to shoot film versus digital and why the film versus digital debate is kind of useless. Uh, Go back and check out episode 247. But today we're talking all about how to make work that matters to you. What work, what it means for work to matter and not just make work for trends. As I said, Stephen is a wedding photographer, and shoots a lot of personal work on film, also shoots a professional work on film as well. And we really start off with deeper dive, maybe into the psychology of why we shoot what we shoot, then getting straight into talking about photography. So you know, you gotta be sure to buckle up for this one because it is a bit of a, more drawn out episode. It's not very direct questions. Some of them are very roundabout, which I know, that there's a lot of listeners who this is your favorite style of interview. And if that's you, I hope that you enjoy. If, you are looking to figure out, more about your style in photography, more about, why you shoot the way that you shoot and how to create images that do matter to you, then I really think that you're going to get a lot out of this episode. It's not just all about business. Even though we do talk about, using projects as a way to recharge our creative batteries, I think that Steven does a great job of breaking down as well, like, why they're just important to us as artists, as creatives, as people who are looking to just make things. So, that's it. I really enjoyed this conversation. Without any further ado, let's go ahead and get on into this. Podcast interview with Steven Wallace. I want you to play a little exercise. Okay. I want you to imagine that you're in the, psychologist chair, right? Yeah. Kind of lean back and close your eyes. And I want you to think back to high school.

Steven Wallace:

Okay.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right. I want you to think back to those days where you were carrying your camera around, just snapping pics, friends, just life, all those things. I want you to think back to that time and think of a photo. Maybe it was one of your favorite images. Maybe it's just an image that stands out simply because you love it.

Steven Wallace:

OK.

Raymond Hatfield:

Describe that photo to me.

Steven Wallace:

Oh, jeez. I'm going to give way too much context because that's what I do. My main camera for like all the high schools, this little APS Kodak Advantix point and shoot camera with like a fixed lens. It was small. I could put it in a pocket or a bag. And I just loved that thing. And then I realized, I think, after shooting a bunch that they made black and white film for it. And I thought this was the coolest thing ever to shoot everything in black and white. So I got a bunch of black and white and then I was just, I don't know if I'm actually picturing a real photo, or if I'm just making this up, um, but I like having my mind of walking around, going to like, little kind of, amusement park thing with a friend of mine, my best friend growing up, David, and, just taking random pictures. And there was just one, I think of like. we're both like we're in vans because we're old punk rock kids. And, I just loved, like, I looked at that picture once I got it developed and printed and it was just like the tones and everything. It was super contrasty. cause it wasn't a great camera. So it was like vignette and it wasn't great light, but I was just looking at that picture. I'd be like, I like this. It's not like a pretty picture of people or whatever. It's just this is something I saw and it caught my eye and I took a picture of it. yeah. So if I had to say that of all the stuff I took in high school, that'd probably be one of the ones that just like pop right into my head. So I need to try to find where those photos are.

Raymond Hatfield:

You do. Yeah. I'd love to see that. So for you, it wasn't so much the subject matter. It was the qualities of film that stood out to you.

Steven Wallace:

It was the qualities and it was a feeling too. I think, that it was something like that was just like a, I don't want to say more abstract subject, but it was just something that was just kind of like, banal, just this is a picture of our feet, But yeah, I saw something. And then when I got the picture back, it was like that kind of like that realization of I set up this shot, I took it and I got this image back. And the way it looked on black and white and everything was just like, it all just fell right. And that's what I can remember. Cause geez, I. So, that's what's kind of stuck with me more than the image. I think it's just that feeling of it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So when it comes to your work today, because obviously you've been photographing for the past 20 years as well. When you think about that image, do you see reflections of who you are today as a photographer in that photo, or have you changed enough to where, no, that's not who you are anymore.

Steven Wallace:

yes and no, obviously, I mean, 20 years life, growing up, being married, having a kid, all of everything, we're all always influenced by the outside influences and the things we experience. But, I would say yes in the fact that, I still love to just like, given the chance, I would just walk around a place with a camera and a pocket full of film and just spend the day taking pictures of random stuff and be like, super happy about it. like even just, last week, it was a nice morning here after I dropped my son off, at school and I just grabbed my AE one that I hadn't used in a minute and just walked around my neighborhood, which I hadn't done for a while and just shot a roll of film and it just felt amazing. See what I could find. so I think that, Oh man. well where we live, we're kind of in a little, downtown area of just a, suburb outside of Atlanta. So, there's like just, stuff that I see every day walking around with my kid, walked around. She's probably thousands of miles in the last few years in this, area, but, it was just looking at stuff like just looking down our street, looking at way the light was hitting a stop sign the way, steeple of a church or they just redid like a downtown green space. So, like, just messing with shadows coming off of chairs and things like that, and just stuff that like, isn't groundbreaking work by any stretch of the imagination, but it was just fun to take a little time to just enjoy the act of photographing, and maybe, I'll get something off of that role that I really like and want to share or maybe it'll just be for me. But I think even if I never developed that role of film, I would be above that, that like half an hour just walking around.

Raymond Hatfield:

Could you walk around without any film in your camera and just take photos and still enjoy the process?

Steven Wallace:

Ooh. or has there got to be

Raymond Hatfield:

stakes for you?

Steven Wallace:

There's probably got to be stakes. or I mean, I think that's an interesting question. I should try that one day, but I know the entire time I'm just going to be just mad that I don't have a roll of film in my camera. Because I'm gonna see something that interests me, and I'm gonna wish that I would have been able to actually take a picture of it. because that's what happens every time I go for a walk without a camera. I inevitably, at least, even if it's just one little thing, I see something like, Oh! That would have been a cool picture. And I could take a picture on my phone, and sometimes I do, but it's just never feels as good.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. that's so interesting, because clearly that's some sort of mental, block, I guess, for you. Because if you had said man, this was a great time, and the way that you were explaining it to me, I was like, man, this sounds wonderful. But then you said, if I ever get those photos back, And that's such a strange concept, I think, to a lot of listeners, you go out and you shoot these photos and you had a good time and you're talking so highly of it and you haven't seen a single photo from it. You have no idea. In fact, the photos may just come out completely underexposed, ruined, but you still had a great time of that moment. But knowing that if there wasn't any film in that camera and you'd still have the same end result essentially on both sides, if you never get it developed or if there was no film in the camera, it still changes. the perception of it, which is really interesting, but I'm not going to get into that. That's like a whole psychological thing. So when it comes to, just going out and shooting, yeah, that's one thing that I love as well. and I've only really recently discovered, I would say since COVID, since there was this time where I was just like, I have to get out and shoot something. And I had been so used to like shooting people, like for weddings that I wasn't shooting anything. So I went out one day and just started shooting and It was similar. It was some shadows. strong compositions. It was just like repeating patterns. It was nothing groundbreaking, but there was something that was so freeing about it. And all of those photos today, I still have these fond memories of, but I'll, never care about those photos, I guess. Right? So what's, what's the point? Are you asking me what's the point? I'm asking you what's the point? Like, how does this help us? What's the point of this?

Steven Wallace:

Man, I mean, well, for starters, there's just, I think, the simple catharsis of the moment of going out and doing it. I mean, I know for me, the same thing, like, photography and walking and exploring and just wandering are so, like, just intrinsically, tied together for me that, I guess maybe I get the same kind of, positive feelings from doing both, that, If, yeah, photos that I don't do anything with, I'm glad that I made them, glad that I wanted to do it because it was just a really great time. That was a release from maybe just the stresses of everyday life or the fact that I have been up to my eyeballs in like editing weddings lately and I just want to go out and shoot something just for me. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's like, again, talking about things that we don't have time to unpack. If you get into people like, Vivian Meyer, who shot thousands of rolls of film and did almost nothing with any of them, like many of them left undeveloped for her entire life. Yeah. And you have this incredible body of work that she didn't do anything with. And I think for her, it was just a simple act of going and. Looking through a lens and hitting the shutter button there was something in that for her that was profound and cathartic and essential to who she was, That the end result, I guess, that taking that, snapping that picture at that moment was the only result she needed.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's so fascinating. I feel like we live in a time where, and maybe this is just an American thing, but it's like everything that we do has to be productive in some way. It has to be working towards some sort of goal. it has to benefit us in some way, even in the things that we do to relax, like somebody shared a meme the other day of like me, I'm going to take up knitting my brain. Oh, you need to take this to a farmer's market. You need to start selling this. You need to turn this into a site. Yeah. And then the next photo is like this dude at a farmer's market. Who's like, obviously pissed off to be there. Who's selling these little hats for 15 bucks or whatever. When it comes to taking personal work, just going out and shooting and not talking photos of kids, family, stuff like that. Do you feel any, maybe not a need to post, but do you feel any, not regret either. But like, if you don't share the photos, do you feel like, mm, that there's a missed opportunity there?

Steven Wallace:

Maybe sometimes, but I don't know. I mean, there's been, times where I've just gone through even stuff that I've, developed and scanned and may have even just forgotten about, just had it sitting in Lightroom for a year or two or whatever, that I've found from a random photo walk or something, years later and be like, Hey, I really liked that photo. I want to share that, that I enjoy the fact that I can kind of rediscover images that I never did anything with. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you do that often? Do you go back through your. Well, I guess it's different when you shoot film and develop it. Much later, like holding. Yeah,

Steven Wallace:

totally. I mean, there's definitely that. I mean, I absolutely do. And I found myself doing that a lot more during the, height of the pandemic when I couldn't go out and couldn't travel as much, couldn't go back to Canada to like Photograph amazing mountains and stuff. I was going back through past work a lot more even because I didn't have new work to share. I didn't have new work. so I spent a lot more time kind of sitting with past images. which I, every time I do, I find value in it. and discover pictures that I never did anything with, or just kind learned something about that. I. Maybe wish I would have done different in that photo or that I really liked about that photo or just, learning in general from my past stuff. like I said, every time I do it, it's, worthwhile. and I don't do nearly enough. that's something that my wife, who's, she's also an artist. she always is telling me, you need to just find time to, like, sit with your photos and to look through stuff and to, just kind of. Yeah. Well, it's curating, certain images or just working on what you have, and reflecting on it. And I want time to do that more. and unfortunately I don't like I have, I've had a couple weeks off from shooting and editing. I've got a wedding coming up this Saturday and then going to be gone up in Banff for an elopement after that. And then fall wedding season is in full swing. so I'm not going to have Any free time basically coming up so I feel like there's that thing of well, you're doing something to relax. And so for me, it's like different than the regular editing and workflow and stuff. Okay, cool. This is cathartic. I can look through stuff. I can have, go at my own pace with it. But then the back of my head, I'm like, well, you're not spending enough time with your images. You're not curating this enough. you keep saying that you need to get a gallery of these photos up online. You need to do something, you need to have all these photos from the Southwest that you've never done anything with. Yo, and then there's that, overproductive voice in the back of my head saying, like, why are you doing this at all? Because you're not getting you need to be doing more with it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So does that make you want to do it less? Because you feel guilty?

Steven Wallace:

Sometimes? I sometimes I do. And then I don't know, man, I think maybe it's just the stage of life I'm at right now in the last few years of pandemic crazier y slowdowns from work, having a, four year old now and just all of it. I don't know. I've been able to let go of a lot of stuff that previously would have really, like, been eating at me. now ask me that same question, like, a month from now and it might be a different answer, but like, right now I'm just, in a really, kind of, content place that, like You know what? If I don't get all of the personal projects or things done that I wanted to try to cram into these couple weeks off, That's fine. I'm in a much happier, healthier place if I actually just go for a hike for an hour instead of feeling that I have to be so crazy productive with every single moment I have. and especially for me with the pressure of like when my son is in school, this is my main work time is these, three, four hours a day when he's not home that I'm now not taking care of him. but kind of letting go and being more free with that is been just for my mental, physical, spiritual, every aspect of health has just been better than trying to always be under some kind of gun, whether it's, from a deadline from client stuff or my own deadlines and I'm opposing it myself.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Steven Wallace:

So, Yeah, I'm enjoying that a whole lot more than always feeling like I have to get the next thing done.

Raymond Hatfield:

Have you always been a person who does, like, a lot of personal type projects?

Steven Wallace:

I've always been a person who wants to do a lot of personal type projects.

Raymond Hatfield:

You and me both, man.

Steven Wallace:

Yeah, man. I always feel like In the back of my head, I have a list of a bunch of them that I want to do, whether it's photography related, or just cleaning up my workspace, or just trying to go and finally finish painting that piece of trim in the house that we've been in for like Eight years that I never got around to, yeah, I feel like I always have something that I could be doing. And there, it's definitely been a thing in the past of like that nagging, like guilt of I always need to be productive and moving and doing something. So slowing down from that has been really helpful.

Raymond Hatfield:

I guess that's where I was going with that is that now that you're slowing down, do you find that the ideas that you have for personal projects are shifting to be, more meaningful, more impactful, more bigger, more, whatever. or do you find that you still have just as many projects now you're just kind of throwing them off to the side?

Steven Wallace:

Probably a little more the latter than the former. I wish I was so thoughtful that I would transition into like some of those projects being more like, okay, well, this is going to be a more long term. It's going to be something that I want to have done in the next five years. I just don't think that far ahead with my work. and I wish that I did. But yeah, I think it's just more of just being able to let go of some stuff, and like, get to it when I can, but, focus on what I can be present for right now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure, of course. Well, when you do get time, to go out and shoot, like you said, I mean, when you went out and shot, you shot because you had taken yourself to school, now you're on your way back and you have this time, this, open time freedom to just kind of be able to explore yourself. When you're able to do that, even though you haven't seen any of the photos yet, do you feel like that time that you spent while you were out shooting is going to help you capture better images? In your professional work at weddings?

Steven Wallace:

Oh, definitely.

Raymond Hatfield:

How so?

Steven Wallace:

maybe just for the fact of like the, shaking off some of the rust from, a couple of weeks off, from not photographing clients and stuff, but, also just, I guess, keeping fresh the joy and love of making pictures of using a camera of exploring visually. The more I've tried to kind of like segment and divorce, my personal work and personal exploration and just even goofing around with the camera from my client work, the less happy I've been with the client work I've been producing and the less just satisfied I've been with photography I feel like the more I just let it all be just part of this, this art form that I love and that I get to do the better work I'm making.

Raymond Hatfield:

So for you, like when you go to a wedding, do you feel a pressure to take images that specifically are going to please them? Or are you still thinking in your head, Ooh, this is interesting. I'm going to shoot this. Ooh, this is interesting. I like this. I'm going to shoot this. Even though, you know. that at a wedding, there's a photo that maybe Aunt Sarah's gonna like, or, you know, a photo that would be popular on, Instagram or whatever. how do you deal with that, balance?

Steven Wallace:

I think the balance is just what you're saying. There is that duality for sure. And I mean, no matter how many times, I've had clients say that they just want like a straight, they want photojournalistic, they want candids, they want me to be me in taking the photos of their wedding. They always come back to those, whether it's like the group family photos or some more posed photos or stuff. People always want to balance, even if they don't say it up front, like looking back at their wedding photos, they're going to be really happy that they got that more formal picture with their grandfather, who maybe isn't around anymore or whatever, so I mean, like you said, balance is really kind of key. some of that, like just getting those, must have wedding shots and stuff has become more automatic, I guess, is kind of the best word for it. Like, that's just part of a wedding day. It's like, all right, we got to go. We got to get the details. We got to get, the formal family shots. We got to just try to capture things as a whole. I don't want to say that that's the easy part, but kind of it is, because that's just the thing that I feel like I could walk into a wedding anywhere and just get those just because it's muscle memory at this point. But then still being open to seeing those moments, seeing, like, Oh, hey, the way the lights coming in this window right now on this one table setting is really beautiful. Let me spend an extra couple minutes with it. let me play with putting like, Hey, the groom nearby to this. This spot where normally, he's going to be fine with whatever pictures I get of him, getting ready, but like over here actually looks really cool. And there's a really strong shadow we can play with. Let's go for that. Yeah, so I guess it's just kind of openness, I guess would be kind of talking through thinking through all of this as I'm kind of rambling at you with it. I'm just holding all of that, like open. And you're just being open to be able to even in the midst of all of those kind of must has of a wedding, where's the moments that I can be creative, that I can enjoy the photos, and that's the thing too, I still really love shooting weddings, I still really love even getting all of those required things and stuff, because it's fun, and it's joyous, and you get to be a part of it, and celebrate with these people you've built a relationship with, and everything too, So, yeah, even if I don't walk away from a wedding with like a stunning portfolio piece or something, like I still, if I've captured those people, well, I still feel satisfied about it. I still feel happy that I'm being able to give that to them, to the people who trusted me to do that at the end of the day, that's really why they want me there is to be able to capture them and the moments and the people they love. Yeah. and if I get a beautiful picture with like an awesome sunset in the midst of it, too. That's just that's icing on the cake.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, of course. A good sunset is always something to look for, for sure. So then how do you define for yourself whether you captured photos that are accurate to them, that they're going to like?

Steven Wallace:

Oh, man. that's a good question. how do I define for myself? don't know. I mean, I guess just the fact that they can still have fun doing it, that it doesn't feel forced to them. if in the moment when we're photographing, and everybody's able to have fun with it. I feel like there's part of me that knows these pictures are going to be good. Not like in a cocky way, but in a just like this was, yeah, an experience and just general feelings of it. we were all laughing when we were walking back from these to the reception, it might've been a hundred degrees out that day, but we all had a really good time.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Do you find that you try to infuse the fun aspect into the shoot or is that dependent on, having that one groomsman who, maybe had one too many or, or, or whatever. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, is do you put that weight on yourself to make it fun or do you just let them organically be themselves?

Steven Wallace:

Bit of both. I think that's, again, like some of the balance, cause there's certain things that I don't, and this is just from over time, jeez, even, seven, eight years ago, I would have been way more stressed and frazzled at a wedding, and I think taking a lot more of that into the pictures I was making, so, Being able to just be more relaxed and myself just having more fun doing it and more confident even if everything's on fire around us. Um, just being able to not put those emotions on the people that I'm photographing. and to just be able to be, whether it's making bad dad jokes or whatever, just in the moment and enjoying it with them. but then also like, if somebody doesn't like dad jokes or puns, or isn't one to like, crack a lot of jokes or whatever, I'm not going to try to make somebody who's on the more stoic side, like laugh at a joke about poop. Um, Um, it's, you know, but I feel that's kind of being true to that person too, I photographed some, and it happens mostly with the guys, cause you know, it's just guys are that way. but two are definitely more. aren't sarcastic and are more stoic and everything, but are, like, the nicest, most caring people. But, they're not just the one to, like, crack a joke. And, they're not the one to always have a giant smile in the pictures. But, just getting to know that person, you're gonna be like, No, that's, that's that guy! he was really happy then, but that's his way of showing it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Have you ever shot a wedding where you thought this is, this is not working at all, but then you deliver the photos and they're just head over heels for him and you're surprised.

Steven Wallace:

Ooh. Yes, I'm sure I have.

Raymond Hatfield:

When you talked about you going out and just shooting for yourself, that's a fun moment for you. You get to see the world in a unique and creative way. And then when we're talking even about weddings, you're like, it's just great when everybody has a fun time. So clearly there's this atmosphere that you try to inject into your photos of I mean, for lack of a better term, fun, but I'm guessing that's either carefree or just, just

Steven Wallace:

enjoyable or whatever. Yeah, yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

exactly. So I guess what I was trying to figure out there was that, like, how much of your perception of the event changes how you think it's the images turn out because I know that that's happened to me in a time where

Steven Wallace:

I

Raymond Hatfield:

went to a wedding and I hated every moment of it. I really thought I was like, there's a huge disconnect here. I made a mistake This couple is not for me. This is not working. They're not happy. They're not smiling in the same ways There's a lot of stress going on today. I hate this day and then when I deliver the photos they legitimately wrote me like the longest and nicest, review, shared it on Facebook, like to all their friends and I was shocked and I thought in that moment, wow, that was a me problem. That was not a them problem. And I think that's probably what started my love for weddings starting to wane, because I realized I was like, Oh man, there's a lot that can go into this. That isn't just like the subject matter. But, yeah, I mean, when it comes to your own personal work, do you photograph anything that is difficult or tough or for you, is it a form of, Tangibly getting ideas in your head out. Does that make sense?

Steven Wallace:

Yeah. Oh, for personal stuff. That's a good question too. you should start a podcast. Um,

Raymond Hatfield:

I've thought about it before,

Steven Wallace:

Maybe do 400 episodes, see how it goes. Give it a try. man, it is really interesting because so much of what I do when it comes to personal work, I feel like is just exploration. with my stuff specifically when it comes to like landscape photography, or even just general like walk around stuff in the city. That's the bulk of what I do for personal work is that kind of stuff. Because it is just getting to explore with a camera.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. You're not setting up big scenes. You're not coming up with like concept shoots. You're going out to explore. Typically not.

Steven Wallace:

Yeah. I mean, I've never been the concept shoot guy. Which drove my professors and art school crazy. Um,

Raymond Hatfield:

what are they doing now?

Steven Wallace:

They're super nice. I actually got to hang out with one the other day and she was awesome. She met my son and it was the coolest thing. She sold me some Polaroid film that she had was hanging on to, no, yeah, but at the same time too, yeah, they were, it's art school. They're trying to get you to think critically and to come up with concepts and stuff. but yeah, most of the time it's just even if I'm doing like some personal work with a model or like doing some kind of like a styled wedding shoot or whatever it is, something that involves people, I'd say I'm bad at coming up with ideas and concepts, but I kind of am, or I guess I just, that's never been the part of My artistic brain that I like exercise that much. It's always more of like, Hey, well, this could be cool. Let's maybe go shoot at this in this field and see what we come up with and be like, okay, do you have a look in mind? I'm like, no, not really. I mean, do you have something you want to wear that would look cool for that? Okay, awesome. Let's do that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, for sure. I've realized over time that like, I do best. I like my images the most. When they almost reveal themselves in front of me rather than building something Because I feel like if i'm building something and I don't like it That's 100 on me and i'm always going to find something critical about it But it's like if i'm just out with my kids and then my kid does this cool thing on a bike And I don't know, I think, oh, slow shutter speed here. And then, like, I get some motion blur. I'm like, wow, that was cool. And now that moment's gone. And, well, it is what it is. And there's something that I find more satisfying in that. yeah, and I don't know. It's, really interesting. But I know that a lot of other photographers are, The type of creative thinker that come up with these huge massive ideas And I guess when it comes to being a new photographer that to me was like the thing I thought that I had to create this huge big portfolio and ideas and I had to be good at all these big things setting up ideas and shoots and challenges and That's not who I am, but it took a long time to discover. So If that's the case for you as well, how do you know if your work is meaningful to you, your own personal stuff. How do you know if you like it?

Steven Wallace:

Oh, wow. Okay. I will, I'll answer that in a sec, but I just completely same page on that whole idea of working conceptually and big ideas and stuff. And I have a really, good friend here in town. fantastic photographer, Jordana Russell. she is, just brilliant at concepts and ideas and fashion and basically it's just the moment she blows up. She's going to blow up because she's that good. And she's that good about thinking about like these big ideas and scenes. And we've like collaborated on some stuff sometimes and I think I probably drive her nuts because she'll have all these ideas and be like, yeah, that sounds cool. Um, or like, yeah, whatever, you know, if you get an idea, let's roll with that.

Raymond Hatfield:

I can see myself saying the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Let's see how it works. Let's go.

Steven Wallace:

That's awesome. and I have some friends, like good friend of mine that I've, I got to know because, she like modeled for me one time and we've shot together probably like she's half a dozen times or more over the years and actually got a photograph for wedding last year. and it's whenever we shoot, she just knows at this point that I'm just kind of like, yeah, we'll do this place, maybe this kind of looks and then in the midst of just walking around, I'll be like, oh, okay, stop right there. That looks cool. and we work together really well cause she's in the same kind of thing of like, yeah, let's just. Figure it out as we go. wait,

Raymond Hatfield:

When that moment happens and you're like, hold on, stop right there. This looks cool. that next step? Because obviously if you didn't build this whole thing, is it in my head? I'm thinking, oh, let's use a interesting composition or light or color or something here and then try to make something out of this. Is that what you're referring to? Or something more along her lines as a model, like her pose or whatever.

Steven Wallace:

Oh, I think both. sometimes it's just like the way that she might have been walking or moved or something or, definitely like the location or the light or something and we'll come around the corner of a building and be like, Oh, awesome. The sun's coming through like just fantastic. I think it's gonna be really cool. Let's give it a try. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely a bit of both.

Raymond Hatfield:

So then, do you think if you are more of a, I guess for lack of a better term, reactionary shooter than a builder, do you think that your images that you love have less meaning knowing that there was a lot of happenstance that had to come together for that image to be created?

Steven Wallace:

Ooh. I don't think so. I don't feel like that's the case. I mean, I don't feel like not to ever take anything away from the shooters who are very, very conceptual and very, constructing and building something. And I know how much Goes into that no, because those images that they've spent all this time, like building and creating this, concept, this world, a scene, those pictures that aren't matters because it matters to them. I think first and foremost, the photographer, the person making that image, that vision resonated with them somehow. and so I think in the same, by like the same token, like me going out and just going for a hike and trying to see what I can find in an area. Pictures or just, walking around with a friend and taking your pictures in the city or whatever. those images, I feel have value because they resonated with me. They meant something to me. They meant something for me to want to, click the shutter and make that image and then work with it afterwards. And, yeah, I connected with it and somehow. So I think that

Raymond Hatfield:

Talk to me a little bit about again, I know that it goes back to balance, but I guess, tell me more about the decisions that you make when it comes to the photos that you put on your website, because from a business perspective, we know that, you got to show what you want to shoot. Right. Yeah, for sure. Are the images on your website, the images that you feel best represent you, like that you love the most, or how much of a decision do you have to make thinking, oh, but I know that this type of image is, pretty and would stand out to brides and, lots of other photographers take this photo. You shouldn't bamf like that. Is it Lake Monroe? Is that the name of the lake right there?

Steven Wallace:

There's, a few, there's like Moraine Lake, Lake Minnewanka, Moraine Lake's probably the most famous and most busy lake up there, without a doubt.

Raymond Hatfield:

So do you think, like, if I have, big landscape, tiny people photo on my website, like that's immediately going to attract people regardless of the rest of my style? Did that question make sense?

Steven Wallace:

Yeah. No, totally. Totally. I think, and that is something that, I think we were even talking about before, before we started recording or when we were talking a few weeks ago that idea of making images that actually making and presenting images that matter to me and connect with me. like, there's definitely the one side of things of showing the variety of photos that I can take showing the, If I'm putting like a portfolio of family portraits on my website, for instance, I obviously am going to want to show pictures of families, I'm going to want to show, people happy together, trying to capture people in the moment and all of that. But it's also because those photos I enjoy, and like, I look at the photos of my own family, and I'm like, I can, especially now having a kid, family photos like that have a lot more, even more value and merit to me. I would love to say that I'm not trying to pander to anyone in particular or trying to attract or try to do anything, but I definitely am trying to show work that is the work that I want to make, like you said, and so it is when I am showing like a landscape of like, Glacial Fed Lake in the Canadian Rockies with a bride and groom in the foreground or like in the corner. I am showing because I want to attract clients who want that, who want to like could see themselves there or just see this beautiful landscape in place. but it's also because I, really love making those kinds of images. It's combining some of my favorite things, which are getting to explore and photograph a beautiful landscape and also capture a wonderful moment in picture for a couple who just had one of the most joyous days of their lives or who, you know, are, had just got engaged or just whatever it may be. Like I'm getting to actually combine two things that I love in photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

So it's not necessarily that you feel any sort of pressure to conform to trends, but it doesn't mean that just because a photo is, I guess, trendy, for lack of a better term, has a high visual impact. Sure. It doesn't mean that it's necessarily, you know.

Steven Wallace:

No, I wouldn't say so. I mean, I don't feel pressure to conform to trends. That's something that I kind of got over pretty quickly when I got, was getting into photography. Maybe just because I'm stubborn.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, what's that? I said, how, like why? But yeah, being stubborn. So trying to go against the grain.

Steven Wallace:

Yeah, definitely trying to go against the grain. I think maybe that's just from being an old punk rock kid. Like, you know, growing up and being like, screw the bands that are on the radio, man. This stuff is, you know, um, maybe there's just that streak of harmless rebellion, that I'm still trying to tap into. Maybe it's the fact that I am like an old, old man at heart. I don't know. Maybe it's me just, the old man yelling at the cloud and you darn kids doing your thing. But I think, I don't know, trying to chase trends and stuff just never worked out for me. And it never felt right, never felt fulfilling to always be trying to change my style or the style of stuff I was presenting and things. Well, it sounds like it's

Raymond Hatfield:

the exact opposite of how you think creatively, because now once you see a photo and you try to replicate it, now there's not so much happenstance. It's just, there's not as much exploring. It's now you have to build it. And that seems like such a huge challenge. I know I've felt that before. Like I really liked this photo, but oh my gosh, recreating something like this, that's a lot of work. so yeah, so then, how has shooting for yourself? influenced the way that you shoot weddings? you going to weddings and just shooting like the way that the light reflects off stop signs and you know, the shadows coming through, you know, park benches and stuff?

Steven Wallace:

Sometimes, I mean, maybe I'm photographing like the sign of the wedding venue, from a different angle than I wouldn't normally. I mean, yes and no. Sometimes, yeah, it is. Maybe I'm not trying to make sure that every single table setting is captured or delivered, because probably half of them are the exact same. but, maybe I'm spending a little more time on finding something that is a little more visually interesting. or that I think is a more of a worthwhile image.

Raymond Hatfield:

Do you find that personal projects have kept the spark for weddings? I know that you said that you enjoy weddings still, but do you find that shooting for yourself keeps the love of weddings alive longer?

Steven Wallace:

Oh, absolutely. without a doubt. I have a really good friend who I got into shooting weddings with, and he was never really in love with doing weddings, I guess I should say. I mean, he always, he did great work, and we had a fun time, but It was never the right thing for him, and he always would talk about getting out of it. And he finally did a few years ago, and he's still a working photographer and does great commercial work, which he enjoys a whole lot more. But he would always talk about how he would never do personal work because it always just felt like work to him. It felt like a chore to have to pick up the camera and go shoot something and come back and edit it. There wasn't just that same joy for him in it. so. Maybe, I don't know if it was just kind of like the intrinsic enjoyment of it for me, or like always kind of having kind of the lessons that I took from him in the back of my head of being like, no, I need to go out and shoot for me because if I don't, this is going to burn me out eventually.

Raymond Hatfield:

It's funny. One of the things that I always ask myself, when I go out and shoot for myself, I think to myself, wow, I just said myself like 14 times in that same sentence, just personal stuff that I know isn't going to be delivered to a bride. It's not going to be delivered to a family. Oftentimes I think, what am I doing here? Because there's not a direct. result from me going out and shooting. It's enjoyable and I like it, but there's nothing already planned for these photos. Nobody's expecting these photos. Nobody's waiting on these photos. I could technically do nothing with these photos and nobody would even know, you know? Yeah. So how do we For you, obviously, shooting for yourself, it's not so much that there's a direct result of, this is the thing that I'm shooting, and this is now what I get to do with it, but it sounds to me like it recharges your battery to allow you to shoot weddings with more creativity and more Enjoyability?

Steven Wallace:

Oh, absolutely. 100 percent it does. Um, and even never

Raymond Hatfield:

got to use any of those personal photos ever again, you'd be like, this is fine because I'm still able to take the images that I'm being paid for, deliver them and everybody's happy.

Steven Wallace:

Yeah, I would say so. I mean, I would like to say so, but there's definitely a part of me that like, there are images that I take, specifically like my, a lot of my landscape photography that I want. People to see, whether anything ever comes after that, but I just enjoy sharing those photos. but also the same time too, like, yeah, the simple act of going out and just making those pictures is. very, very much, recharging and, gratifying and cathartic and everything too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Most recently, aside from this time where you just, no, you know what, forget it. Thinking about walking back, and doing that, film shoot, obviously you haven't seen any of those photos yet. No, I haven't. You haven't seen any of those photos have turned out, but when you think about. looking through the viewfinder, in your brain, what photo did you like the most? Or do you have the most excitement over?

Steven Wallace:

Oh, okay. there's probably one, a couple is just like these in that new green space in my town There was just some metal chairs that just had light pouring through them and just making some awesome shadows on the ground. And probably I'm most excited about that because when I started walking that day, I'm like, Oh, I want to go down there and I bet there's probably some cool shadows coming from these chairs. So I had that in mind already. I was like, kind of, Pre visualizing that shot a little bit. So I think just the fact that I got to go take a picture that I had in my mind already, which may be just completely, counterintuitive to everything we've just spent the last hour talking about, but I did have a picture in mind that I wanted to make. so yeah, those ones I think I am excited about. But then, you know, there's just some stuff. I do want to see that roll of film because it was a film stock. I've never shot before. It was a black and white film. I used it with a red or an orange filter on there that I haven't used within a while. sorry, what did you say? What was the film? Oh, it was just a Kent mirror 400. So it's just like a, um really inexpensive stock that, Ilford, bought Kent mirror a few years ago when they manufacture now. And, um, Yeah. And it's really cheap. especially now, just because cheap film is, hard to come by, but like a roll of it is under 10 bucks a roll of that. I've seen other people shoot with it and it looks beautiful. And I've had a couple of roles sitting around and I just decided to not overthink it and just grab it and go. So I'm excited to see what happens with that.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, well, I'm excited to see it. I want you to share those photos. I want to see it as well. I

Steven Wallace:

will share those photos and I will tag you in it and be like, Hey, we talked about this role of film with Raymond on the at the beginning of photography podcast.

Raymond Hatfield:

do you find that shadows are something that you're drawn to that you shoot often?

Steven Wallace:

Yeah, I'd say so.

Raymond Hatfield:

So let me ask you a question because I have, had recently went through my Lightroom catalog, just my Lightroom CC. So like I kind of separated, you know, Classic into wedding work and then CC into like personal work because if they're together for me, it always felt like the same Work brain, but on personal photos. It didn't work the same. Do you have any separation like that as well?

Steven Wallace:

Yeah, I mean honestly I have it in that I have all of my client stuff on like external hard drives, I mean, I have them always connected to my main desktop, but, they're, all of my client stuff are on those, and all like the personal film stuff I do, I just have on my computer's hard drive, in a film specific folder. How do you view it? Oh, just all in Lightroom. They're all in the same big Lightroom catalog. But when I go down and look through the folders, I'm like, Oh, okay, cool. All the stuff that's on this, USB G drive is client stuff and everything that's on this film scan folders is more for me,

Raymond Hatfield:

Gotcha. Gotcha. So I had been looking through my photos recently and I discovered that like over the years, I've taken a lot of photos of shadows and why I'm not I don't know. I don't know. But I started putting them in a collection by themselves. And, I don't know if anything will ever come of it, but it's interesting now seeing, it's like, I'm not going out and creating a project to shoot, but it's like, I'm still kind of creating a project. Like I'm assembling it, which has been very strange. and again, maybe it's just my American brain that says like, but what am I going to do with this? And I haven't figured that out yet

Steven Wallace:

that's one of the things I love about this art form in general and those found images in your own body of work. even if you don't do anything with this, just for yourself, you're curating a body of work and you have been over the years taking pictures of these shadows and stuff. And I think that's when it's really worthwhile spending time in your pictures, going back through them, realizing, Hey, I'm drawn to this one particular subject matter. and I think that was one of the most. useful things that I got out of art school and the education that I had in that was Not necessarily having to have great grand concepts not having to go and like make a picture be a movie set Like gregory krudsen and all these, super like high concept photographers but actually Looking at what I'm drawn to photograph and trying to understand why, and trying to actually just get that more self reflection and be more aware of why am I making this particular type of work, just for the fact of knowing, knowing myself better as a photographer. I think it's, that's worth it. Even if you never do anything with that collection of shadows, you're learning more about yourself.

Raymond Hatfield:

A thousand percent. And that, that's, the thing that I'm struggling with, which I know sounds ridiculous, uh, but it's like, why shadows? Why have I been drawn to shadows without knowing it, for so long? and maybe it's just cause it's, not on the nose, subject matter. and then over time I just. kept shooting it or maybe it's something deeper. I don't know. But I feel like if I wanted to put something together, it would have to have some context or some meaning or something in it that I, want to figure that out before it gets turned into something. But, I completely agree with you. Yeah. Being able to go back and look at your work. I never thought was valuable. I never, Wanted to go back and do that because it was a long time ago, but it was, I think David Duchemin, who I've shared on the podcast has said like the best photo school is here's the camera. Here's a hundred rolls of film, go out and shoot. Don't look at any, uh, anybody else's photos. And then when you're all done, look at them and then now decide for yourself who you are as a photographer. And I was like, Whoa, that's cool. But I never went back and looked at the photos because I always wanted to just keep shooting and keep growing rather than I guess, reflecting. But now that I have this space to kind of. reflect rather than just keep busy and shooting. It has been really beneficial. It's just now I have to figure out in my head, well, what does this mean? And that's the next step for me, I suppose. So, I really want to see more of your personal work. I want you to create something of your personal work. I know that you said that you save a lot of stuff, on a hard drive, on your computer. I think. Seeing how they relate to your own professional work is so cool. and seeing that, I don't know, free association of, here's the thing that I see in front of me. And here's the image that I was able to get out of it. only because I feel like you and I see the world in that same way. that'd be really interesting to see those photos. But, Stephen, we're at the end of our time here. we did this. I feel like this went by so fast. Dang!

Steven Wallace:

This went by very fast. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

before I let you go, people are gonna want to know more about you and see some of your work. So, where can we do that?

Steven Wallace:

Yeah, for sure. my website, it's just, Stephen Wallace photo. com. And that's, Stephen with a V. and, on the Instagrams, at Stephen Wallace photo, if you're on Facebook, just Stephen Wallace photo on there. I occasionally jump on threads, but not really. I downloaded it and haven't done a whole lot with it since, but yeah, I mean, I would say Instagram is probably where I keep up with most as far as like regularly sharing the work I'm making. And it's always a mix of like client and wedding and landscape and just, Personal work and stuff to you.

Raymond Hatfield:

I had two big takeaways from this interview. One was just how important it is to be able to recharge our creative batteries. Even if you're not into photography professionally, There can be a lot of weight to create images that really stand out and have huge meaning and, do these really big tasks. And when we try to make these images, often times we put in a ton of work to make that happen. And when they don't turn out exactly how we want, well that can suck for lack of a better term. So being able to use or find a way within photography to completely just recharge your creative batteries so that you don't give up so that you just get back out there and you get back to work and realize what went wrong and fix it this time and make whatever you do next better. again, really stood out to me and I loved, just chatting about how, it doesn't really matter about the images. And if I never see the photos. Again, well, I still know that I had a great time out shooting and I felt free and that freed up that mental space to be able to be more creative when it matters. And then takeaway number two was just how cool it was that, obviously, Steven is also I feel like there needs to be a better term than a reactionary shooter. I'll come up with something, but how we both see the world, in a very similar way to where we work best within the constraints that are in front of us. here is the world that we're in right now. Let's make the best of it, rather than creating something massive from scratch, from nothing. so hearing that another photographer sees that way was great, but also just that that doesn't, in Steven's eyes, illegitimized the. value of those photos, that just because you captured it while you're out, and maybe it didn't take, a week to put together, or even an hour put together, that you just kind of saw it, you snapped the photo, and then you really like it, doesn't make it worth any less impact to you, but it can still make a difference in who you are as a photographer and the way that you see and interact with the world from a creative perspective. So I really appreciated that because that is something that I do Struggle with, how valuable can this thing be if I know that it didn't take very long to create. So again, that was one of the biggest takeaways from me. I would love to hear your biggest takeaway in this episode today with, Stephen Wallace. You can share it with me. In the private free to join beginner photography podcast community. We have a whole chat dedicated just to podcast interviews. So if you have a question or a comment about a specific interview, you can come on in, share your thoughts, chat with others as well, and again, share your biggest takeaways and continue the learning process after the episode is over. Oh, you can join the group by heading over to beginner of photopod. com forward slash group. Again, beginner photopod. com forward slash group, or if you are already a member, you can just head to community. beginner photography, podcast. com. And then you are in, but that is it for today. Remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you will be tomorrow. Talk soon.

Outtro:

Thank you for listening to the Beginner Photography Podcast. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review in iTunes. Keep shooting, and we'll see you next week.