The Beginner Photography Podcast

Going Beyond Genre in Photography with Lissa Chandler

• Raymond Hatfield

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#425 In today's episode of the Beginner Photography Podcast, I chat with wedding, senior, and family photographer Lissa Chandler. Lissa shared valuable tips about building rapport with clients, embracing creativity, and staying true to your artistic vision. She also discussed the importance of shooting for yourself and creating work that fulfills you creatively. As you listen, take notes on how Lissa navigates vulnerability, handles rejection, and captures authentic moments.

THE BIG IDEAS

  • Embrace the Evolution: Look back on your earlier photographs and appreciate how they have evolved over time. Your growth as a photographer is an ongoing process.
  • Follow Your Passion: Trust your instincts and pursue photography even if it's not a popular career choice. Lissa knew from a young age that photography would play an important role in her life.
  • Finding Your Niche: Be open to finding your niche in photography. Lissa initially wanted to be a posed baby photographer but discovered her passion for shooting weddings after a convincing encounter.
  • Shoot for Yourself: Shoot work that fulfills you creatively, not just what others expect. Lissa emphasizes the importance of creating a body of work that is meaningful to you, even when working with clients.
  • Build Rapport with Clients: Connect with your clients to create a successful photoshoot. Use questionnaires and encourage client involvement to build rapport and capture their true selves.

Resources:
Lissa Chandlers Website
Follow Lissa on Instagram
Check out Lissa's Photoshoot Checklist Book


Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Lissa Chandler:

Especially if you're a new photographer who's really into trying creative things like those, it's really easy to look back on that stuff. But I also think that like, I think that's so helpful. But like, when I look back on that, I don't feel the need to criticize it as much because I'm so critical of my current work. And what I like to do is look back and like, at those photographs and kind of see how they evolved and like see elements that I photographs I took in 2010, 2011 that were very amateurish, but looking at them now as somebody who has done this for a long time, I can be like, I was trying to do the same colors that I'm doing now. I was trying to get the same emotion that I'm getting now. That focus is weird, but I was trying to do this, that I can do now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Welcome to the beginner photography podcast, where each week we interview the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images and compelling stories so that you can start to do that. The same welcome back photo friends today we are chatting with Lisa Chandler who is an Arkansas based wedding family and senior photographer who chooses not to niche down on a genre but instead niche down on a feeling. It may seem like a small difference, but as you'll hear, it is exactly what she needed to blossom as a photographer. So Lisa also just published a brand new book called photo shoot checklist, which I have a copy of right here. And as you can imagine, having to shoot multiple different types of shoots, staying organized is very important. So I bought this copy of her book and I'm going to be giving it away to one of you. So be sure to stick around until after the interview to learn how. You can win yourself a copy. But first, one thing that I struggle with when interviewing guests is kind of that balance between asking questions specifically for beginners, like brand new to photography, and then asking questions that photographers who may be just a bit further in their journey would benefit from. Well, this week, Jessica 82, let me know that I'm on the right path in her five star iTunes review. Jessica says great for all levels of photographers, really informative, entertaining, and enjoyable to listen to. I've already gotten plenty of good tips and we'll definitely listen to more. Jessica. Wow. Thank you so much for that. Your feedback really does let me know that I am on the right track and to keep it up. So again, thank you. Leaving the show a rating or a review on Apple podcasts, or even in Spotify now is one of the best ways to help the podcast stand out in this sea of podcast information overload. So if you haven't already, please consider leaving the podcast, a rating or review yourself. So with that, let's go ahead and get on into today's interview. So my first question for you, Alyssa, is, it's a simple one. When did you know that photography was going to play an important role in your life?

Lissa Chandler:

Honestly, always. Like, I grew up just taking pictures. It was always my thing. And then, I'm older. I'm 35 in the photography world. So, like, when I was kind of doing photography. Like it wasn't a thing. Like people didn't go and become photographers when I was in high school that just, I had never met a photographer, you know what I mean? Like just wasn't a thing. And I kept wanting to do it and kept wanting to do it, but didn't really know what that was. And then when I was in college, I just kind of started taking portraits for people and then fell into weddings.

Raymond Hatfield:

What did you go to college for?

Lissa Chandler:

I have a degree in history.

Raymond Hatfield:

History. So, I'm always, interested in the people. So, I'm similar. I, uh, was class of 06. And, growing up, it was always like, for some reason, I just always, I always knew that I wanted to be in some sort of visual field. So, I went to school for, actually, cinematography. Not photography. But, for those who go to college, like yourselves, for history, What is that decision? Like, I want to know how important was photography in your life at this point to be like, you know what, all of this money and time that I'm dedicating to history, I'm actually going to go this other route. What was that like for you?

Lissa Chandler:

You know, when it like came time for graduation, I just couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Raymond Hatfield:

Aside from photography?

Lissa Chandler:

Yeah, I just couldn't decide. But I mean, I know talk about like, kind of joke about being old, but like, there wasn't people doing that. Like, it was just very, I can remember when I was like, I'm going to take photographs, like I'm a photographer and the looks he would get from people. I don't know if you experienced them, but they just like, it was very different, at least in the community I was in. And so, I just couldn't think of anything else I wanted to do besides that. That was it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So how did you think to yourself, like, what was the plan for, for making it work? Was it, if I just take pretty enough pictures, people will come to me? Or did you know that there had to be some business sense behind it.

Lissa Chandler:

Oh, I knew there had to be some business sense, but I was definitely a like, learn as you go kind of person. So I started, taking portraits. I think my first you know, like high, like where I got paid was probably like five years before I actually opened a business.

Raymond Hatfield:

And was that in college at that point?

Lissa Chandler:

yeah, I was right after I graduated that I like, I graduated like two weeks later filed a business license.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, wow. Like real quick. You're like, we're making this happen. I'm going to figure it out. We're going to do it. Yeah. So what were you shooting at that point? It was just friends and whatnot from college.

Lissa Chandler:

That is what I had done. We had actually moved from where we went to college. We were already married and had a kid and, came down to Arkansas. And so I didn't know anyone.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you had to start fresh.

Lissa Chandler:

I had to start totally fresh.

Raymond Hatfield:

What was that like?

Lissa Chandler:

It was intimidating, but you know, I think it was one of those situations where I really didn't have anything to lose. Like I knew that it might not work out. I never expected to go as far as I ended up going, if that makes sense. I really just thought it was going to be kind of, not like part time, but not like what it became. I thought it was gonna be something that like I did and I made money from, but I also. I already was a mom and because I had my first kid in school when I was still in school and just very like, wasn't sure I didn't really have, a huge goal. Like I feel like a lot of people can now because I didn't even know how to envision it. I don't know if that answered the question.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. I didn't even know how to envision it. How interesting. That's almost like freeing because at that point it can almost be whatever you want, right?

Lissa Chandler:

Yes. I wasn't like, I'm going to be a wedding photographer. I actually wanted to be a posed baby photographer. And then I did that a couple of times and I hated it. Um, I was like, this is not for me. Posing them on bean bags. Like I just, I couldn't do it. And, Yeah. So I already had, had that experience where it wasn't like what I thought it was going to be. So then I was just very open to find me like what fit me and my personality and like what I wanted to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

And that was weddings.

Lissa Chandler:

It was. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

did that come about? Like you're shooting, you're obviously the post newborns, right? You're like, Nope, don't like this. You're shooting friends from college. I'm sure that's going okay. And then you think, Nope,

Lissa Chandler:

Yeah, I'm basically, but not really. So like I had shot couples, like from the very beginning of like, when I had like taken photos for my friends, like it wasn't like a new genre couples wasn't, but I was like, there's no way I'll ever do weddings. I hadn't really been around a lot of weddings really period. So I didn't really know a lot about them. And then I had like a Craigslist ad. Cause again, this was like, you know, 2010, something like that, you know, 2011 and I had a Craigslist ad and someone found me and they like, convinced me to shoot their wedding and I had shot a wedding before and it was just a horrible experience and I didn't want to do it but this couple like convinced me and I really liked them and it was a Laotian wedding. It was not a traditional wedding like usual we shoot and it was like a two day celebration where the first part was in their house and it was this huge party Very different. And then the second day was more like traditional, like a wedding that I would shoot most weekends now. And, it was so different and there was just so much to photograph. And I was like, you know what, like, this is it, like, this is really fun. And that was, I don't know if I had done another, like normal, if I had done another, like, Mason jar wedding because that was what was going on at the time. Um, you know, if I had done another Mason jar wedding, if that had been my experience, I don't know if I would have gotten pulled into weddings, but doing a wedding that was really unique based on what I had seen in the past at weddings, that really like triggered something in me. And I was like, I want to do this. This is really fun and colorful and bright and just different.

Raymond Hatfield:

I would imagine as somebody who didn't really have like a direction, you know, like, I guess like that in goal, like you were saying, not knowing where you wanted to take photography to be able to see something so unique and interesting, how that would definitely open up your eyes. But I want to take a step back because I feel like we, I jumped around with some of the questions and now like, we're already in the business phase. I want to know more about, you. In learning photography, though, because, you're there in college, you have yourself a camera. I guess what I want to know is like, where did the education for photography come? What were you all self taught? Was it, was it books? Was it the library all self taught? Okay. It was

Lissa Chandler:

all self taught. It was a lot of trial and error. And I did get some books, but those didn't really come into play until later where I like could pinpoint what I wanted to learn, because I just didn't even know. Like I had no idea. I can't remember someone coming up to me and being like, Oh, I heard you like photography, like, what do you think of this aperture? And I was like, what? Like, like, I can remember being like, well, I don't really do like the technical stuff. I'm just like interested in the art.

Raymond Hatfield:

But

Lissa Chandler:

I didn't know. I had no idea, you know.

Raymond Hatfield:

So it was that the world was just slowly expanding around you.

Lissa Chandler:

Yes.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. And then you just had to go out and just figure it out on your own. wow. So what was the most challenging part? Like, what was the hardest thing for you to wrap your head around?

Lissa Chandler:

honestly, the hardest thing for me to do, was understanding how everything worked together because it becomes so overwhelming. Like when you put your camera to manual and you're like, wait a second. if I do this, Does that mean this changes? But does this change too? And then do I have to go back and change that first thing because the way I changed the other things didn't line up quite right? it was very confusing. And I actually thought I broke my camera at one point because the images were black.

Raymond Hatfield:

So Oh, I see. So like your settings were all off. So all of your photos just came out extremely underexposed, which you thought was like, I broke

Lissa Chandler:

it.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, so Then how do you get around that? You think you're standing there broken camera right in your head. You're like, Oh no, did you just put it back in the box? I mean, clearly not. Like you figured out how to get out of it. What happened?

Lissa Chandler:

well that time I think I just put it back into the bag and was like, okay, I'll try again later. but, You know, I actually just have a really supportive husband and he was the one who really was like, you can do this. Like, if this is something you want to do, let's do it. And I don't know if I would have ever done it if I wasn't married to him because he was so supportive because I can talk myself out of a lot of things. Um, and he was like, no, let's try it. Let's do it. And, kept kind of encouraging me. So when I'd be like, you know what, like, I don't really want to, do this anymore. This is a lot harder than I thought it was going to be. He'd be like, well, let's do this. like he'd come up with a plan for me and, with me, not like he told me what to do, cause that would never

Outro:

happen.

Lissa Chandler:

We talk about it and kind of work through it together. And that really helped me both as I was learning and as I, started my business and I don't think that person for everyone has to be a spouse. It just has to be somebody who like supports them and like wants. you know, someone they can go to and like talk to you about it because it's really overwhelming. And at the time, graduating 2006, you get it. I was 2005, like very, very different, like on how you would learn. There wasn't the education there is now, there wasn't the resources. You kind of just like sunk or swam.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, and you obviously swam because here you are, here you are today. So getting into weddings. Well, wait, I guess before we get into there, I want you to think back to some of those earliest photos. Right. Which we all love to do. Right. We all love thinking about our earliest photos. thinking about those photos. What do you think are some of the elements that if you looked at it today, you would say definitely an amateur photograph?

Lissa Chandler:

What do you mean? Like, just like obviously

Raymond Hatfield:

artistic

Lissa Chandler:

or like composition wise, like what are we talking?

Raymond Hatfield:

So your skills as a photographer has progressed to the point to where today you can go out with certainty and confidence that you're gonna be able to take a photo that you like. Yeah. If you look back at some of those earliest photos, is there anything from a technical standpoint, from an artistic standpoint that makes you think this is not a professional's work?

Lissa Chandler:

I mean. Yes, but also like, I think that's something that we do when we are new photographers is just look at everything that's wrong. But I actually love to look back on my old photographs because I can look at them and see what they turned into later. So like I can see things instead of like looking back at them and being like, okay. This focuses off this composition sucks. What even like, was I trying to do? That's so easy to do, especially if you're a new photographer, who's really into trying creative things like those, it's really easy to look back on that stuff. But I also think that like, I think that's so helpful, but like, when I look back on that, I don't feel the need to criticize it as much because I'm so critical of my current work. And what I like to do is look back at those photographs and kind of see how they evolved and like see elements that I've photographs I took in 2010, 2011, that were very amateurish, but looking at them now as somebody who has done this for a long time, I can be like, I was trying to do the same colors that I'm doing now. I was trying to get the same emotion that I'm getting now. That focus is weird, but I was trying to do this, that I can do now.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, Raymond here. And we will get back to today's show in just a moment. You know, if you want to photograph people, you know, families, portraits, weddings, engagements, you know, that the elephant in the room is. You have a pretty good understanding of how to use your camera. You know how to make a pretty picture. But when somebody steps in front of your lens, well Imagine if you knew how to make them look their best and feel confident. That is what you can do when you understand basic posing techniques. So I want to give you access to my free posing guide over at photoposingguide. com. There are nine different categories and more than 80 real example photos of poses that you can use for inspiration to rock your next session. Once again you can download your free Photoposingguide over at photoposingguide. com Now, let's go ahead and get back into today's interview. I absolutely love that. I have a similar, feeling about looking at some of the, my earliest work where it's like, wait, I can see what I was trying to do, you know, trying to get to, and I still do these things today. So clearly, I've grown as a photographer and, so have you. So where does it get now? I want to know now we've moved into those weddings, right now you're shooting weddings. and take a look at your website. You're also today doing, seniors and families as well. Now I know that there's a lot of pressure out there in the education space for new photographers that you should be niching down, but that wasn't your jam. So where did this come from?

Lissa Chandler:

I don't believe in everyone having to niche down because I don't think that that is helpful for every photographer everywhere. I can't shoot the same thing every single day and be happy. I will get feel like I am in a box and I will not produce my best work. I will not be my best self. I will not any of those things. So for me, I thought very early on, but what I wanted to do because weddings were so unexpected and I love weddings and one reasons that weddings are a good fit for me is because they have so many elements to them. You get the candidates, you get the portraits. There's lots of pretty stuff to photograph. There's downtime, like all of it. I mean, downtime, not really, but you know, it's not all chaos the whole time, every time, but, just lots of different things about weddings that were attracted to me. But when I asked myself, like, do I want to only shoot weddings? I could never make that jump because I like shooting other things in between. And I feel like the more I shoot other things, the better my work in other genres of photography becomes. I'm not saying that like everyone needs to do that. And I think that it's very wise to niche down. It's just like, for me, when I sat down and looked at it, Over time, I decided that I wanted to niche down on a feeling rather than a genre. And so that has always been my goal is to niche down on that really colorful, bright, like happy, somewhat whimsical feeling that I have in my photographs, whether it's of a baby or like a flower or a wedding.

Raymond Hatfield:

don't think I've ever heard anybody describe that, niching down on a feeling instead of a genre. And I was actually going to bring that up because it's like if I go to your website, while you are doing several different genres of photography, they all have a very cohesive look. And I, you know, sometimes I wonder, it's like, is that intentional? Because it's like, if you look at, you know, one way that a lot of people try to stand out is that maybe they'll take it from one extreme or another. But for you, I love that you're just like, no, this is who I am as a person. This is the style that I'm going to put into my photos. And then we can still swap out the people and the locations, but it's still one of my photos. I had a question there and I'm trying, I guess I'm trying to figure out what it is, but I guess essentially I really love that, that approach to it and not niching down. So for you, why then, now this is more of a business question here. Um, why? Cause another, another thing that people are told that if you choose not to niche down, have separate brands or separate, Instagram accounts, separate websites and whatnot. Again, you decided not to do this. Was this for ease of your business, or was there another reason behind this?

Lissa Chandler:

No, I literally just could not picture myself shooting the same thing over and over.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Lissa Chandler:

That was the only real reason behind it. Like, and then, the more I progressed, the more I, everything, the more I really was like, you know what, like, I know how I want my photographs to feel and I know how I want them to make people feel. So that is what I realized as everyone around me was talking about niching down. And like, really focusing on just one or two things. It just, it never felt right to me. And I think that there are a lot of photographers out there that feel that way, but they have been told that they need to just niche down on, photographing, high school seniors in a studio and they shoot that. And that is all they shoot. And so when you put yourself in that box, it's so hard to even take that high school senior and put them in a field because you're like, no, I shoot studio. I do this. But when you open yourself up to being able to create different kind of work, I think that it is very trying to find the right words. I think that it's very creatively freeing to be able to open that door and be able to be like, no, I photograph all of these things because I know how I want my photographs to feel at the end of the day. And when you're trying to create that cohesive feeling, it's going to come out in your work. And especially if you really focus on like what you want to create and not what you think the industry wants you to create, it's going to come out and come through. And then I think people will be much more creatively fulfilled and are able to have longer careers and pivot over those careers.

Raymond Hatfield:

So today, or I guess now that you're transitioning out of weddings, say last year, or maybe not last year, because I guess last year would be a bad example. At your height, how many shoots would you say that you're doing, in a year?

Lissa Chandler:

On average, I would shoot about 25 weddings and 100 portrait sessions.

Raymond Hatfield:

100 between seniors and families. Okay. So that is, that's quite a bit. And that obviously leads me into my next question here, which is you have now come out with a book all about photo shoot checklists, right? And I was going to ask, where did this idea come from? But obviously it came out of necessity for your sanity because otherwise that was a lot of shoots to, to keep track of. Can you tell me more about the book and I guess how it came together?

Lissa Chandler:

Really it came together in about three hours before, besides, besides the formatting. But from the idea to being like, Oh, I can do this, was really fast because I am always just like making checklists. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like I honestly, I saw a tick tock where someone was talking about publishing on Amazon. And I was like, that's interesting. And I looked at it and then I was like, Oh my gosh, what if I could just like write my checklist in a book instead of constantly writing them down by hand. And like, I'm like, I keep track of them on my computer. I know that a lot of, softwares will help like HoneyBook and things like that. But, I don't like pushing the button. I like doing the, like crossing it off with my hand. And so literally just took the idea and like, I had a proof in my hand a week later after having the idea. So

Raymond Hatfield:

no way that is so cool. So just to clarify, these checklists are not like, or are they like things that you should do to prepare for a session? Like what to bring on the way to the session? Or is this more of on the business side?

Lissa Chandler:

It's just planning the shoot out. It's literally just like, I have one, it's just like everything from like the contract to the retainer. Then you have planning everything. And then at the end, it has like, just, all the way from like your signed contracts to what props you want to bring to delivering sneak peeks in the final gallery, like that's what it is.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. So the whole point of this is to keep you organized and obviously keep your brain free so that you can probably come up with more creative ideas during a shoot.

Lissa Chandler:

And I also have at the end of each checklist, there's a section and they're just like one page back and forth. I want to make it really simple. and there's a section about like the best part of your shoot and the hardest part of your shoot. And at first I was like, do I want to put that in there? But I've been using mine since it came in and it is very helpful. Like it's super, cause you don't think about like, cause I mean, most shoots are great. Not every shoot is hard, but there is always something like Okay, like I did great, but like I'm really bugged about this series of photographs where like the model's chin wasn't in the right spot I need to pay attention to chins and like writing it out and having it be like on that same shoot where you noticed it is just super helpful. And I've only had mine for a few weeks and it's just been super great.

Raymond Hatfield:

I agree. I've had a very similar experience. I like to tell listeners of the podcast, also to do that audit on yourself, like after, Every shoot, I ask myself, like, when I get into a car after a wedding, like, what went well today? What didn't go well today? Like, what could be changed? And I find that even though, like, that sounds like a good idea, a lot of people don't actually do it. So if you had a place where you're, like, writing everything down, that is fantastic. Because I'll be honest, even though I do this mental exercise after every wedding, like, I don't write these things down. And I can imagine that at the end of the year, if I was able to look at everything that It could be improved and everything that went really well during a wedding. It would be really impactful for sure. Well, I love this. Okay. So then tell me like when it comes to shoot for you, what do you think is the most important aspect that you need to get right? Like what elements of a photo shoot do you need for you to consider it like job well done? You knocked it out of the park.

Lissa Chandler:

You need to connect with the people you're photographing. Like, I'm not saying that you need to like be best friends with everybody because there was a big movement for a couple of years where like, all your clients are your best friends. And like, I get that, but also that's not true. Um, you know, cause it's just not like, you're not best friends with every single person you shoot. And, If you're shooting professionally, there is just no way for that to be the case. And, I totally lost my train of thought. I had a mom

Raymond Hatfield:

for connecting with clients and making sure that the shoot goes well.

Lissa Chandler:

You know, I feel like if you don't connect with your clients, if you don't just like find a way to like interact with them, then it can, you can have the most amazing photographs and they will probably love and cherish those, but they also remember the photographer. That was really rude.

Raymond Hatfield:

So we don't want to be rude to our clients. Right. So, have you ever had a client where you just like really did not jive with them at all? And how did you handle that situation?

Lissa Chandler:

Yeah. I mean, you just like put your best foot forward. It's like working with someone on a group project. You might not get along with every single person that you photograph or like, not like not get along, but it's not like you're going to be. It's the best friend thing I'm talking about. Like you're not going to like be best friends with everyone, but you can have a great time with someone for a couple of hours, just by like, even if they're kind of resistant to being photographed, like if it's someone in a family who doesn't want to really want to be there, or, someone who's just really shy, which I totally understand. I think just as long as you think about the person you're photographing and try to make them comfortable while doing your job, then you're going to do okay. Like you're going to do great. A lot of things that I hear after I photograph people is like, cause I own a style shoot rental company. So I work with models as well. And one thing I hear a lot from models is that photographers just don't tell them what to do, which is just bananas to me. And I think just, so people crave that connection. It's very vulnerable to be photographed, even if you have been photographed a lot. And, I think that just kind of paying attention to the people you're shooting and just making sure they have a good experience will help, even if you don't jive with someone.

Raymond Hatfield:

So making sure that people have a good experience and building a connection with them Are not, there's a separation there, right? what are the things that you do to ensure that you have some sort of rapport or connection with your clients? is it just through the words on your website or are you sending out a questionnaire? You, what sorts of things are you doing?

Lissa Chandler:

So I do all of that. I do a questionnaire before all the shoots. I don't do them before family shoots, because as a mom, that would just stress me out to get that from a photographer. Um, just another thing to do. But, I do questionnaires for all of my couples and all of my seniors. I let my clients be out as involved in the planning process as they want to be. So for some people that means that they're just like, I love this X, Y, and Z that you have on your website. Can we do something similar? And we'll create something similar. And some people make Pinterest boards and send me, 50 ideas, within the first week of booking their contract. And that's great because that means I can pull What they want together, but I would never require someone to send me something they didn't want to send me because not everyone plans thing the same way. And some people just want to walk up and have it ready for them. And so I need to prepare to do that. But other people want to control more. And when that's the case, then I take any idea they have for me and construct a shoot for them.

Raymond Hatfield:

So for your questionnaire, other questions that you're asking specifically designed around what images they want and how they want it to look. Are they more personal things like, what they do on the weekend or what, how they interact as a family, things like that, both. What do you think is the most helpful question for you? Say non shoot related. Does that make sense?

Lissa Chandler:

Is to ask them what they are interested in, like what they like to do in their spare time, because if you have anything in common, and even if you don't, you can pull questions from that. If the shoot's not going well. So if someone's like, I like Star Wars and you don't care about star Wars, but the shoot's not going well. And you're like, so what's your favorite Star Wars movie. And such a simple question can really just like make someone so comfortable because they're talking about something they love.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is a great tip. That is a great tip right there. I can tell that you are very, driven to be able to deliver, obviously what it is that they want and that you have some sort of organized process to be able to deliver all this as well. Keeping your life organized where, you know, as a parent, as a business owner, these are all very important things. But I'm also interested in more of the creative side. And as a professional, there is this balance of delivering exactly what the client wants, but also creating kind of what fulfills you. So how do you, how do you deal with that balance?

Lissa Chandler:

Well, that question is really funny because most of my friends, if you ask, I was organized, like they would all laugh 'cause I am like driven by chaos , but I have my lists. It's organized chaos,

Raymond Hatfield:

right? It's organized chaos,

Lissa Chandler:

organized chaos. For me the creativity is way more important and it's way more of like where I love to be. Like that's my jam. I love it. Like that kind of stuff is what I like. And so that's why I have to be more goal oriented with organization and things like that. 'cause otherwise I will just ignore them.

Raymond Hatfield:

I totally get that. cause I'm the same way. And in fact, one thing that I like to do is before every shoot is I will look at some, I have like a folder on my phone of past inspiration, right? And like just some crazy ideas, ideas that like I would never capture at a session, but it gives me the idea of like, this has happened at other sessions before. So why can't I kind of break out of my comfort zone? to try something new, but I too am very much like, I also need concrete answers. Like I need to know that I'm going to get, the wide shot of them just holding hands. I need to know that I'm going to get, you know, the medium shot of them, getting close and snuggly and all these things. So for you, when it comes to the shoot, the shoot itself, is it more structured or is it more organic in what it is that you capture?

Lissa Chandler:

So I will plan. And, uh, organize things as much as I can. And then as soon as I get to a shoot, it's like, I love the idea of like looking at images, like inspiration images or past images. But as soon as I get to a shoot, it all goes out the window. Like everything is gone and I'm just like going to create like what I can create in that time frame with what I have and push out my best work but I can plan things like to an inch of their lives and then as soon as I get the camera in my hand and I'm on location, it's gone.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes, yes, I know, myself and a lot of other photographers will, empathize with that is that is very, it's a difficult thing to deal with as well, especially like right as you show up, you feel prepared, you get out of the car and you're like, what was I about to do? Like, this is the worst feeling ever. so when something like that happens, when you do go out, I want to know, then, What are you trying to capture? Like from a creative standpoint, from the photos that you're capturing, what makes a photo feel creative to you? How do you push those boundaries? How do you make sure that, wow, this is a really big question. I apologize. How do you make sure The photos are going to turn out the way that you want.

Lissa Chandler:

So I am extremely driven by color and light and texture in all of my photographs. I don't want it to be boring and it has to have elements of author of those things to really pull me in as a viewer and as a photographer. I just. I'm so like passionate about always having those elements in my work so that I'm always pushing on those things and trying to create something that is interesting, but also makes me feel something I don't want to like create something that's interesting for the sake of being interesting because then it loses the heart of it. I don't like photographs that are created to like trick you into an emotion.

Raymond Hatfield:

Can you give me an example?

Lissa Chandler:

It's not even like a specific kind of photograph, but sometimes I'll see, gosh, how am I going to put it? I don't, and I'm talking about in my own work, but like, for me specifically, I don't like, like making people cry through prompts because, I know there's people that were, that makes it feel like It's very authentic and beautiful and for their work and their work system. It is, but for me as a person, it makes me feel manipulative.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. I like

Lissa Chandler:

that. and that's something that like, when I teach, I always am so like very passion about with my students is like what works for one person because for one person they're creating this beautiful experience and it's great because they've asked me these questions and they're crying and they have these beautiful photographs. And for me, I can't do that because that's just something that feels manipulative to me and my personality. It doesn't mean it's manipulative for the other photographer. It means that it is for me. And I think that the more we shoot and the more we create, the and the more we just make stuff, the more we are able to pinpoint what works for us and what doesn't. Because I wouldn't know that about myself if I hadn't done it in the past. Does that make sense? But now that I've done it and I've done that kind of stuff, I don't like what I created because of how I felt and how the photographs then felt to me afterwards. And so I need that creative energy to be, to flow through all of my work so that it can feel connected and it can feel, tied together and so that I can shoot whatever I want to shoot and not just one thing.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is so open. So then, how do you get the photos that you want? I know that that seems like a really simple question, but like, I know that we, prompts are like a big thing, right? Prompts are a big thing, because people, they want that emotion, and I think that they're, probably part of it is scared to pose, but let's say that, A couple is in front of you right now and, you want to take their photo. Is it, you just set them up in their bodies? Like walk me through how you get to the point to where they're just standing side by side to, to a place where you like how they look and then you take the photo.

Lissa Chandler:

Well, I started talking as soon as I get out of the car and I don't stop until I get it back. So that's the first thing that I do and I'm actually really shy by nature. I'm not somebody who just like like if you see me at the grocery store, like I'm someone who would much more be like going into the things. If I saw someone then like running after them to say hi. But, um, I talked to them. I asked them questions nonstop. And. talk to them, listen to what they're saying, talk back to them, have like an actual conversation. And as I do that, I give them, I don't really do a lot of, question type prompts. I will every once in a while, if it's like hit a slow point or if my brain has just kind of like petered out for a second, but you know, lots of Snuggling, lots of just like holding hands and getting close. I like to say things like, put your arms around her because not every couple is going to put their arms around each other in the same way. Different couples have different personalities, just like people. when you tell one couple to snuggle, they'll do it very differently than, um, somebody else and so you're going to get the images you want by just connecting with them and talking and having conversations while also, just kind of, it's almost like, the posing is part of the conversation. Um,

Raymond Hatfield:

I don't know if that

Lissa Chandler:

helps. No, 100%.

Raymond Hatfield:

100%. You know what it is. I think that question is really for, one thing that I think holds a lot of people back from actually getting out there and shooting is if I'm not good at posing, like, how is the shoot going to go? And I love hearing that exactly because what you're saying is that obviously there's things like you're giving them prompts, or I guess you're encouraging them to be who they are by saying things like put your arm around her because they're going to do it in their own, But the other thing is that you're just having a conversation with these people and however they react to your conversation with them is who they are as a person. And that's what you're going to capture. And I think that that takes a lot of pressure off. I think it, at least I hope that it takes a lot of pressure off those new to photography who are thinking about doing their first shoot, who are worried about, Oh, I have to pose everything. I don't know what I'm going to talk about. I don't know how to say these things. And if you're just who you are. And you just get out of the car and you just start talking until you get back in the car, it should turn out. All right. Right.

Lissa Chandler:

Yes. I mean, it's like, yes, 100%. That is the way that I have been able to do all the different kinds of shoots and all the different kinds of situations, because some situations are very stressful. Like you go somewhere, especially like if you get into traveling at all, sometimes you're in a city where you have never been with a couple that you've never met and it's their wedding day, or maybe you're there for their engagements, but you've never been to any of the places because your flight got in late and you weren't able to go scout anything out. And so you're in a new state. You've never been in, in a new environment with new people. Everything is new, but you're still yourself. And so you can still just be yourself in that situation. And you're still going to be able to create the same kind of images when you're completely out of your own environment.

Raymond Hatfield:

My next question for you was, if one of your kids came to you and said, Hey, I want to be a photographer. What advice would you give them? But I think that was it. Am I right? Or is there other advice that you would give?

Lissa Chandler:

There would be other advice, but yeah, that would be the main gist.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, last question. What else? What else would you tell them? Like, okay, so that, they get that, just be yourself, alright? What's next?

Lissa Chandler:

That it's gonna be really freaking hard. And they got it prepared. Um, one thing that, we don't talk about a ton. I feel like is that being a photographer or any kind of creative business owner means that you can literally face rejection daily. it's not something that like it's not like, when you're applying for normal jobs, you get a lot of, no's when you're writing a book, you get a lot of no's but then you either publish a different book, or you get a different job, and then you move on and you're working on your next project. But with photography, the projects are shorter. You're not spending two years writing a book. You're not looking for a long term nine to five. You're looking for much shorter kind of work, looking for people you connect with, and sometimes you'll think you found that, and the answer is still no. Or you'll, apply to teach for something. Or your goal will be to get in a certain magazine. And the answer is no. And it keeps being no. And then maybe you'll get that one thing up. Maybe you will get that dream client. But that client is only one client of all of your other clients. Does that make sense? There's a lot of rejection and sometimes you will be like, dang, I've got this. It's great. And sometimes you'll book something that seems like an incredible experience or you'll like, be like, I have reached the top. Like I have done the things I need to do a minute before. horrible. You know, and you're like, this is hard. Like this is hard. Sometimes I think that is something that photographers are not prepped to deal with because it can be very difficult to have that kind of rejection on something that you love. And so even when you have a fantastic career and you're shooting the Things you want to shoot and you're doing the things that you want to do, you can still be being told no very often for things that you wouldn't even think about being told no about, before you were told no.

Raymond Hatfield:

Thank you for, for being so open and honest about that. I love that because you're absolutely right. but I want to know as somebody else, I would consider myself in a very, same, um, also, I feel like very shy, when it comes to, seeing somebody at the grocery store, I'd rather just like, Oh, look, I'm going to go over to the frozen section over here. Oh, that

Lissa Chandler:

looks good over there. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm going to walk over there. So as somebody who is self proclaimed shy and dealing in an industry where you have to be very vulnerable because you are creating something and this is your art, how do you deal with that rejection?

Lissa Chandler:

There's a lot of ways, but I think that the thing that has helped me the most is to create the work that I want to create. So when I'm making the stuff that I want to make, I am still, even if nobody else likes it, if I create something and nobody else likes it, but I love it, that is what matters. And I am not telling myself, no. And that I'm telling myself, yes, and I am building the portfolio that I want to build. And sometimes that portfolio is going to be more trendy than other times. Sometimes it's going to be more liked at other times than it is. But what matters is that I like it and that I'm proud of it and that I can control the work that I want to create. And I don't mean that in like a, even though I said control, like a controlling fashion, but like, I give myself permission to create the photographs I want to create and not the photographs that somebody tells me I have to make. And yes, when I'm shooting client work and they're like, you know what? Like we don't. I'm like the weird light and I'm like, okay, we won't do the weird light, but when, and that's fine. And I'm happy to do that for them. And they can be fantastic. And someone I would actually want to be best friends with, but they might not like the weird light. And so I won't do the weird light, but when I shoot for myself, I sure as hell, I'm going to do the weird light. Cause it's mine.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yes. Yes. So I know I said last question like 10 minutes ago, but last question here, have you always felt this way or was this something that you had to learn through years of rejection? It

Lissa Chandler:

was definitely something I had to learn because I realized I worked really hard and I've had a really, really good career. It's been really great. And I've had a lot of things happen that I never thought could happen. But no matter how good some of those years were, if I had a year where I was not shooting for myself and giving myself permission to create the photographs I wanted to create, I was not creatively fulfilled. I could be shooting weddings, like I could shoot in like six States in one month. And if I was just not shooting how, like, if I was not shooting for myself, I did not feel fulfilled and I did not feel happy. I could shoot and I love that. I love traveling. I love doing all those things. I love being able to shoot different people on different stages and just like have so much fun with it. But. If you get caught up in that and get caught up in like, I need to be here. I need to do this. Just know the people that seem so successful and that they've done all of these things. A lot of them really only feel that fulfillment that we're all striving for. If they are creating photographs, that means something to them. And so that's, what's important to me. And as the years have gone on, that becomes more and more important to me because when I look back up on my work, it's my body of work. It's not just one photograph. It's not just one awesome style shoot, one awesome client. It is all of it together. But when we're working with clients and working with vendors or photography friends for certain things, the things that we work on that can be symbolized by like one thing, right? If you go shoot a wedding in Austin, Texas, you go shoot your, the wedding in Austin, Texas. And then that couple has the photographs and they love them forever. But that is just a splash in your photography portfolio, like in your whole photography existence. And I feel like. That is sometimes we're chasing after, like, I want to shoot a wedding and the grantee taunts, I want to do this. I want to do that. And those things are fantastic, but it's not about that one thing. You're going to get that one thing and you're not going to feel fulfilled because it's just one thing and you need to find creative fulfillment. This is totally my soapbox. I'm sorry, but you need to find a fulfillment. On all of it together and one thing, one great shoot, one great publication is not going to do that for you.

Raymond Hatfield:

I think you should rename your upcoming podcast to the photography, soapbox because that was perfect. I think that a lot of people are going to resonate with that. I know I did, and I can attest to that as well. It's like, I've had shoots where I thought like, this is it. I made it. You're like, well, that was fun, but that didn't change anything. And like that feeling kind of goes away. So that's, that's really important to talk about. And I don't, I don't think many people are talking about that. So that was very cool. Alyssa, I don't know how to end it any better than that. That was truly, And again, I think that a lot of listeners are going to resonate with that. So before I let you go, can you let listeners know where they can find out more about you, your book and your upcoming podcast as well online?

Lissa Chandler:

Yeah, I have, my website is lissachandler. com. My handle is lissachandler. com. Lisa Claire on Instagram is also opal in June because I run a salad shoot shop and all the information will be on those locations.

Raymond Hatfield:

I love conversations like this. My biggest takeaway hands down was to simply just be true to yourself and your creativity. I know of a cinematographer who only shoots transparent liquids and they work all the time because that's what they are known for but personally, you know I think niching down that much would honestly drive me crazy And I think Alyssa realized that about herself as well and goes out of her way to shoot many Different things so that she can be fulfilled by her art and her photography Absolutely love that Now at the beginning of the interview, I shared that I will be giving away a copy of Lissa's book right here, photoshoot checklist, a step by step organizer to manage your photo shoots. So all that you got to do to enter is to be subscribed to the beginner photography podcast newsletter. So if you get emails from me currently from the beginner photography podcast, then congratulations, you're already entered. But if not, be And you want to enter, then you can head over to beginner photography podcast. com right now. And the homepage, you will see a sign up for my most popular ebook picture, perfect camera settings, sign up right there. It's absolutely free and you will be entered to win automatically. I'm going to be doing several of these throughout the year. So be sure to sign up now at beginner photography podcast. com. That is it for this week. Remember the more that you shoot today, the better you will be. Tomorrow. Talk soon.

Outro:

Thank you for listening to the Beginner Photography Podcast. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review in iTunes. Keep shooting, and we'll see you next week.