The Beginner Photography Podcast

Building Confidence in Street Photography with Valerie Jardin

• Raymond Hatfield

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#571 Valerie Jardin is a renowned street photographer, educator, and host of the Hit the Streets podcast, celebrated for her candid approach to capturing everyday moments. She recounts how her early influences growing up in France and her father's passion for wildlife photography shaped her artistic vision, even before she picked up a camera in her twenties. Valerie’s evolution from shooting wildlife and family portraits to running a commercial studio, and finally transitioning to street photography, offers listeners valuable lessons on adaptability and following creative passions.

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. Navigating the Photographer’s Journey - Valerie shares her gradual shift from wildlife and portrait work to full-time street photography, emphasizing experimentation and personal projects as core to discovering one’s true passion.
  2. Cultivating Photographic Vision - She explains why vision trumps technical perfection, advocating for real-world practice, making creative choices in-camera, and learning to see the world through a photographic lens.
  3. Street Photography Practice—Ethics, Legality, and Approach - Valerie clarifies misconceptions around street photography, covers ethical/legal aspects, shares tips on gear (favoring lightweight, unobtrusive cameras), and highlights the value of patience and discernment while shooting.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Photographic Vision: The distinctive way a photographer perceives and interprets scenes, fundamental for creating impactful images.
  • Street Photography: The art of candidly documenting everyday life in public spaces, focusing on story and context rather than posed shots.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. How has Valerie’s career evolution influenced your perspective on trying different photography genres?
  2. What are simple exercises you can do to sharpen your photographic vision?
  3. How do you interpret the ethical responsibility of photographing strangers in public?
  4. How might simplifying your gear impact your style or results?

RESOURCES:
Visit Valerie Jardin's Website - https://www.valeriejardinphotography.com/
Follow Valerie Jardin on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/valeriejardin/
Hit the Streets Podcast - https://www.valeriejardinphotography.com/podcast

Learn What Camera Settings to Use in our free guide!
https://perfectcamerasettings.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Valerie Jardin:

If you know how to see photographically, you can get by with a phone and still do a fantastic work. Whereas if you're very technical, but you have no vision, you're going to have a technically perfect photograph of something really boring. So anyone can learn the technical aspect of photography. That's the easy part. And I always tell my students, don't worry so much about the technical aspect, cause that's easy to learn. Just learn to see.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and each week I interview one of the world's most interesting photographers to learn what it really takes to capture beautiful images so that you can start to do the same. In today's rewind episode, we are chatting with Street photographer Valerie Jarden, about building confidence so that you can start shooting life on the street. But first, the Beginner Photography Podcast is brought to you by Cloud Spot. Cloud Spott has everything you need to build a thriving photography business. You can impress your clients, deliver professional experience, and streamline your whole client workflow in just one platform. So grab your free forever account today over@deliverphotos.com and only upgrade when you are ready. You know, one of the things that I hear from listeners like yourself is just how much, easier it would be to take great photos if they lived in some tropical community or a large city that, you know, never sleeps. It's going 24 7 and while, okay, sure. That would make it easier. For the majority of us, that's not where we live, and that doesn't mean that we should just give up on photography. In fact, today's guest, Valerie Jarden, who is honestly one of the most incredible street photographers who I know is gonna show you how great images aren't just about the surroundings, where you're at, but they're about building images with intention and, putting in the time behind the camera, and maybe investing in a really good pair of walking shoes. And this always stick around to the end for this week's photography action item because well, this podcast is not just some passive thing that you do to waste your time. I understand that you take learning photography seriously, and these action items are my way of helping to boil down a lot of info into just one thing that you need to do each week that is going to move the needle forward in your photography. So stick around for that. So now let's just go ahead and get on into today's interview with Valerie Jaran. Today's guest is Valerie Jardan, a street photographer with more than 20 years of experience. A born artist, her bio says, while other kids had posters of rock stars on their walls, I framed photos. for my favorite photographers. She's also the host of the popular hit the streets podcast. And today I'm excited to find out what those 20 years have taught her about shooting the streets. Valerie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Valerie Jardin:

Hi, thank you for having me. Well, it's not 20 years of street photography. It's 20 years of photography experience. So a lot before.

Raymond Hatfield:

And that's kind of one thing that I definitely want to get into, first, but as I mentioned there in the bio, you said that you had posters, from professional or photo frame photos of professional photographers on your wall, but you also say that you weren't really into photography at the time. No,

Valerie Jardin:

not at all.

Raymond Hatfield:

I want to know why those photos were drawn to you to put them on your wall, and when did you realize that you were into photography?

Valerie Jardin:

Okay. Yeah, it started really late for me, but growing up in France, you have Robert Doisneau and Cartier Bresson as inspiration. You kind of grew up with those pictures anyways. And I always had, prints, not original prints, unfortunately, but prints of, their famous photographs, whether it was a prince that I would cut from a calendar that I would have of Doisneau or something. And that's what, that's how I decorated my room. So that's, Did they have an influence on me early on? Possibly, but I was not into photography at the time, but I loved street photography and documentary photography so that I didn't become a photographer till my twenties. now

Raymond Hatfield:

you said that you were interested in street photography at the time. what specifically do you think at a young age drew you to, this style of photography?

Valerie Jardin:

Oh, I think it was just very romantic, the lovers in Paris. And I know a lot of my friends, I mean, I wasn't like an oddball or anything. It was kind of a normal thing as a young French woman to be drawn to that kind of art. And a lot of my friends, also have those type of photographs in their home. I guess it's more a cultural thing. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right, right, right. So when was it that the photography really, stuck with you? If you weren't into photography at such a young age?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, I was exposed to it. So my dad, when I was growing up, was a pretty avid nature and wildlife photographer, hobbyist, but, nevertheless, I would, there are many mornings where I'd get up super early to go with him and wait for the fox to come out the den to photograph him. I wasn't interested in the photography aspect of it, but I liked that hunting part of photography. and it's not until I moved to the States, in my mid twenties that I actually started, looking into it, and I was actually first drawn to nature and wildlife because I'm in Minnesota and the photographer that inspired me when I moved here was, Jim Brandenburg, the famous National Geographic wolf, very famous for his wolf photography, Northwoods and that's the photography that, just stuck with me at first and said, Oh, I'm in the best place to do wildlife because we have wolves with bears. We have so much wildlife here in Minnesota. And I thought I could do that. Yeah, I could accept that. And then I had kids and it's not easy to do wildlife photographies with two young kids with you. So, I did a little bit, but, quickly. Quickly shifted gear into other things that I could do with the family in tow, for my early years as a photographer.

Raymond Hatfield:

So in the beginning you, you just started pursuing photography once you moved to Minnesota purely as a hobby, kind of to bring that feeling back of you and your dad together?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, maybe, but it quickly, I mean, within a year, actually, I was making money with my photography. So it went really, really quickly. I was, photographing, children and friends, you know, I'm in the, uh, going through the prairie grass that really natural photo documentary type of portraiture that was very new back then. I mean, the. The portraits at the time, it was like sitting on a fake log or big crayon at JCPenney or, you know, Walmart. There's

Raymond Hatfield:

big crayons. You remember that? Oh, I got photos, yeah. I was there, yeah.

Valerie Jardin:

So when I photograph my friend's children, and they put the pictures on their walls, it was film, at the time and I would give them, the prints, then people started noticing, cause I thought, this is really cool. Well, it's a picture of your family, but it, it looks like art. Doesn't look like a family picture. And at the time, nobody else did that. Then I started getting a lot of requests from friends of friends and I said, oh, sure I can charge you for that. And uh, and it worked. So I worked as a portrait photographer doing that kind of work for a few years, even opened a studio for a while and decided, Hey, I didn't like to photograph kids in studio because it's like bringing them into, a dentist office or a doctor's office. And, had unlimited patience with my own children, but not so much with other people's children that I decided that, yeah, doing family portraits and children portraiture was only going to be a short lived thing. And I actually converted my studio into a product studio. So I did a lot of product photography and shifted to the commercial side of photography pretty quickly doing products. And one thing led to another and I was shooting interiors for big hotels and things like that. So I pretty much shot it all except for fashion. I think I've pretty much tried everything, which I think is awesome because you learn so much and you can't say, no, I don't want to do this unless you tried, so I tried a lot of things, it was pretty good at most of it, but I didn't like a lot of it. So I kind of I only did what I love to do because I really believe that to be good at something, you have to love it. And if it's a chore or a job as an artist, and if it feels like a chore, you're not going to do it with your heart.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I try to stress that a lot on the podcast as well, especially when you're starting out, you should really try to shoot everything possible because, yeah. There are photographers out there, and I use this as an example, but I know a photographer, who kind of, I knew, when I first started in photography, who only shot clear liquids. That was his thing. It was only clear liquids. see through, not like clear green, but clear liquid. liquids, water, vodka, like those types of liquids. That's all that he did. And I thought to myself when I first figured that out, or when I first learned of him was like, how do you even get into that? Surely you don't grow up as a kid thinking like, gosh, I could just shoot water and vodka like all day long. it's one of those things that progresses, you shoot a range of things and then suddenly it sticks for you. But, I kind of want to go back to your story here. You said that you picked up a camera there and then within a year you were photographing kids and stuff. When you first picked up that camera, were you already, competent with a camera or did you have to learn?

Valerie Jardin:

I was a full auto for a long time because, and, and yet, that's why, the vision is so much more important because you can, if you have, if you know how to see photographically, you can get by with a phone and still do a fantastic work. Whereas if you're very technical, but you have no vision, you're going to have a technically perfect photograph of a person. Boring of something really boring. So anyone can learn the technical aspect of of photography. That's the easy part. And I always tell my students, don't worry so much about the technical aspect, cause that's easy to learn. Just learn to see. And I think some of it is innate, but you can learn. I mean, I've. I've seen some of my students over the years produced some pretty phenomenal work now, and I saw them at the early stages. So, you can learn, even if it's not something that you're born with, you can certainly learn to become a better photographer, but the technical part is, or is the easy part and surprisingly enough, that's what intimidates a lot of people from jumping into that field.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure, it's a lot of numbers. I mean, I get it. It can't be intimidating.

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

how did you do it? Was it books? Was it just um, no trial and error trial and error. I love it. Yeah, okay So we're kind of at this point to where now you have this commercial photography studio, right in the Was it in the early 2000s?

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

okay. So you had this commercial photography studio and now today you're very well known for your street photography You Where did the transition happen and what was it that inspired you to, to go in

Valerie Jardin:

that direction? Well, um, I was shooting personal projects throughout. because I really feel that, and I've written a lot about that actually, I really feel that you need to feed your creative soul. And not work for clients all the time. especially when you work for client, that's even more important to just work on personal projects where you don't have to, produce work for somebody else, and follow somebody else's direction. So it was really important for me to keep shooting and I was traveling back and forth since I was born and raised in France and I'm a French citizen. I was traveling back and forth to France a lot, even with the kids. And, actually always with the kids for 17 years straight but I always did photography there, and that's when I actually discovered street photography I started photographing candid scenes of everyday life with my camera when I was traveling but never here in Minneapolis, I didn't think there was anything interesting here. I didn't see anything interesting and I I I guess I developed it not knowing I was developing my street photographer skills, over the years. And then, one day actually someone said, Why don't you teach this? You're really good at it. I'm like, Oh, I don't know. I don't really want to. I was thinking teaching like in a classroom. It's like, I know, I mean, you have to be on the street. And then I thought, well, why not? After all, I could bring people to Paris and teach them the skills to be better photographers on the streets where street photography was born. And so that's how I started. So that was eight years ago. I did one full and it was all inclusive at the time. I didn't start with one day here locally. I started with a full week, all inclusive workshop, accommodations and luxury accommodations and everything. And, it's sold at the time where most of my colleagues who had been doing that for a while were telling me, no, no, no, we're not selling right now. It's not selling. Don't start now. Cause you're going to get discouraged. If it doesn't fill up, it filled up. Actually, I had a bunch of people on the waiting list. So it was a good start. And so I went to Paris, did the one week workshop was a big success and learned a lot. So the following year I had nine workshops and they all sold. And that was it that year I quit all my clients. I left all my commercial clients, and decided this is what I'm going to do. And, no more working for clients, no more compromising. I'm shooting just for me and going to build my brand that way. And it was word of mouth and repeat customers and word of mouth. And, now I'm eight years later. I think I had 13 workshops in 2018. I think I have 11 right now for sale in 2019. A lot of them are sold out. And then, and I may add one or two. I just go where I want to go. And then people come and meet me in Paris from Australia or South Africa or England for a week or a weekend. Sometimes it's just a weekend. I have a lot of weekends in the U. S. and I love every minute of it. Because that is not an easy way to make a living. It's really, really hard. I mean, you're, it's intense. Sometimes I have nine straight days of workshop. And not only you have to love to teach, you wear a lot of hats when you're doing workshops and, it's extremely difficult and you really have to love it. It's kind of like wedding photography. You have to love it or you're going to be miserable.

Raymond Hatfield:

You got to have the right intentions for sure.

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah. So, that's how it started and I'm still doing it. Love it. Love it. I would never do it if I didn't love it as much as I do. And then, I write books. I've been podcasting for four and a half years, almost five years now. and I speak at conferences and teach webinars. And so it's all photography goodness.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. If you had to take a, just a ballpark guess, how many people do you think, have been through your workshops?

Valerie Jardin:

Oh, it's got to be close to a thousand.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay, so out of those thousand people. What do you think is the biggest misconception they have when they show up to your workshops about street photography?

Valerie Jardin:

Oh, a lot of people don't realize how difficult it is, and how addicting it is. lot of people, and the way the workshop is designed, it doesn't matter what your level is. It's really about seeing. So they have to come with a certain knowledge of their camera to be able to take control. I mean, if it's minor, I can, you know, they don't have to come and know how to shoot panning on the street that I'll teach in the field. It's not something you can learn from a book, but, they have to have good knowledge of the camera. Although a lot of time people come with a brand new camera, although I tell them, please don't bring a brand new camera on the workshop, know how to use it. It has to become an extension of you. and, sometime the idea that, street photography means being in people's faces when it does not, that's one way to do it, but it's not for everyone. And I totally discourage people who don't feel comfortable getting super close and people's face to do it because they're going to ruin the whole. genre for everybody else, if everybody does that. So it's not for everyone. Some people prefer an interaction with their subjects. Some people prefer a little more minimalist approach. So I think there is a way to approach it that's going to fit the student's personality to start. And then, then yes, they will want to get closer. They will want to try new things. But they don't have to jump into being in people's faces right away. cause that has to be done well and respectfully. And it's usually, not something you want to do if you don't feel comfortable doing.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Right. So if there's, like you said, kind of several different, types of street photography that you could practice getting up close in somebody's face or taking a much more candid approach. What would you say overall though is the job description of a street photographer?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, it's really recording everyday life and it's not just There is also the misconception of, well, it's just people walking across the street. Well, no, it's not. You have to be really, discerning. You have to be extremely discerning. And that's one thing that most street photographers, at first, are not discerning. It's like, okay, there's somebody moving, there's a street, there's a subject. Like, what? And it was like, well, what was interesting about that person? I mean, no offense, but there is nothing there. It's a boring subject wearing boring clothes and a boring with a boring backdrop. I mean, you have to have a lot of elements come together. That's why it's so difficult because you only have control over your vision and your gear. You have control over nothing that's happening on the street. I never stage anything. I mean, it's always a hundred percent candid. And I always explain to my students, you always have to go for a story first. The backdrop may not be the best. The light may not be the best, but if you have a beautiful moment, a beautiful story, you have something. If you have a great background and you ruin it with a boring subject, you have nothing. So sometimes all the elements will come together, but that happens a few times in a lifetime of a photographer. So, I think it's always resetting their expectations, especially if they've been photographing, they've been doing other genres of photography, such as landscape, where they actually can take their time. They have, they're on a tripod, They can come back here. You have a fraction of a second to immortalize something that's never happened and will never happen again. That's it. That's all you have. So you have to move really, really quickly. You have to think quickly and you have to let go of the notion of perfection, which is difficult for a lot of photographers who've are experiencing other genres of photography. It's that notion of perfection because in street photography, it's usually the imperfection that creates an emotional response.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's going to be a memorable quote from this episode right there. Okay, good. That was good. Uh, so I'm still trying to, kind of wrap my head around street photography a little bit. as a wedding photographer and somebody who doesn't, shoot street, can you walk me through how you go about doing that? You said that you don't, plan anything out. You don't create anything. You don't interact with it. So when you decide to go out, do you walk out of the house with a specific photo in mind, or is it all up to just being in the right place at the right time and hoping that you get something? And if you don't, well, at least you weren't behind a desk all day.

Valerie Jardin:

That's right. No, actually. So first, if you have a specific picture in mind, that's somebody else's shot. It's not yours. If you have a specific image in mind that you've seen, probably something you've seen, then it's not yours. And so I try not to. But then once I'm on a location, I usually hit the street with, It depends on the light. So I'll follow the light if I have some interesting light, like a, a lot of light and shadow. So that will probably be what I'm going to follow first. If it's an overcast day, I'm going to have to get closer to people and be more, in tune with expressions and gesture. Because I have nothing in the light that's going to be exciting. So it's a little more difficult. When you have light, harsh light. You're going to make more exciting photographs, no matter what. It's easier than if you have a overcast condition and you don't have the, spectacular, dramatic light to, to save you like harsh shadows and harsh, and, light shafts and so forth, then you're going to have to work a little harder. I like to be surprised. That said, I do have several projects that I always have in the back of my mind. I have a project about street dogs. I have a project about stories of hands, which is only getting close to people's hands. So I'm always looking for hands that are doing something different. I shoot within inches from people. So if I'm at a market or a busy area, I'll focus on that because I'm more of a minimalist photographer. So if it's crowded. I'll probably focus on something specific, and work on a project, but don't go with a picture in mind, but once I'm at a location, for example, I find this really amazing shaft of light. And I know I only have minutes because that light is going to disappear. Then I will visualize what would make the strongest possible shot. And it may or may not happen, but I'm not going to settle. If the perfect subject doesn't come through that light before that light disappears. I'm not going to get the shot. I prefer not get the shot that get a mediocre shot. And that's something that takes a long time to discipline yourself to do. A lot of time there's this amazing backdrop. And then I see my students, I point out the backdrop and I'll see them, I'll see, usually work with them one on one or two of them at a time. When we're in a, interesting area. And I go back and forth to them and point things out and they see this amazing backdrop then they grab a picture and I said, wait, what did you take a picture of? well, yeah, look at there was somebody came through and went, okay, this is a person with uninteresting clothes with a backpack, which creates kind of a, not a very, elegant subject and really nothing. The light is, if the light hits their face, it doesn't hit the face. It'll hit the back of their head or something. So it's like, it's, it's the light was good, the background is good, but you settled for an interesting subject. No, you stay longer. You have 10 more minutes of that light here in 10 minutes. Somebody much better, much more fitting for that environment may come through. If you're in Paris or Rome, you're not going to photograph a tourist, right? You're going to photograph somebody who belongs in that spot. So it's really about being discerning. And that's why your rate of success is so low, but I prefer coming home with 10 pictures on my card that actually 10 pictures that I want to look at, then 500 and then trash 490 of them because that's pretty much what it's going to be on a good day. If you come back with one picture, you actually want to keep. That's really good. And people have. have to be comfortable with that. And that's difficult for photographers. I mean, some of my colleagues actually asked their students to take 100 pictures and delete 99 of them. And be that specific. It's a good exercise, actually. So

Raymond Hatfield:

wow. So like, wait until you get home to delete those 99 photos. I guess so. I don't know. I

Valerie Jardin:

don't ask my students to do that. But, uh, I told him, there is nothing, if there is nothing there, just delete.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Valerie Jardin:

You didn't catch the moment and sometimes they say, but oh, I saw something. I saw something. I said, good. That's half of the work right there. You didn't catch it. That's okay. You learn because you saw it. And that's more than 99 percent of the people out there can say, because people look, but they don't see, and when you see that special moment, that special gesture, that special expression in somebody's face, the light that just hits the face of a beautiful woman sitting at a cafe, if you see that, even if you don't capture it and it, but you saw it, that's, you learn something and no matter what, you're better equipped at catching it the next time something like that happens. It's never going to be that moment. But there will be other moments with that, with a similar, situation and just learning what you could have done better that day to get it will teach you how to get it next time.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. I can imagine. Practice makes perfect. That's what they say. So at least better, at least better. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters. That's all.

Valerie Jardin:

That's right. And it's okay, to come back empty. I think it's better to come back empty, but knowing that you learned something, you saw something that you miss or either come back with a bunch of mediocre shots.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. So it sounds like there is a lot of downtime when you go out to shoot street photos. When you go out, is the first thing that you're looking for, like you mentioned, is it the light and then just waiting for something to happen in front of you?

Valerie Jardin:

Not necessarily. I'll follow the light, but you have to be patient. And if you keep moving, moving, moving, it's probably not gonna be a good day, depending on the city. For example, New York City. You have to let people come to you more because there's already something happening in New York. Same in Paris, actually, depending on the season. but if it's quieter, then you'll walk more. But you need to always be in tune what's happening around you. I already say it'd be really difficult to pickpocket a street photographer because seriously we have eyes behind our head

Raymond Hatfield:

Now are you always are you always on the move? Are you walk in within like, a few hundred feet or so, or are you standing miles?

Valerie Jardin:

No, I'll, I'll walk miles and miles and miles a day. The most important piece of gear for a street photographer are shoes. I mean, honestly, I spend more money on shoes and good shoes, not girly shoes, you know, street shoes, than I do on gear on any given year, because that's really the most important part, the comfort of being able to walk, 10, 15 miles a day, with your camera. So go light, small camera, if you can. Yeah. I mean, go with whatever you have, but, just don't bring extra lenses or extra gear, just extra batteries and you're good to go.

Raymond Hatfield:

When do you know when to call it quits?

Valerie Jardin:

Oh, I never do. I never put the camera in the bag.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay. Let me, let me reframe the question. When you've been in a location, nothing is happening? Do you wait until something happens? Or at what point do you say, You know what, I'm calling it a day.

Valerie Jardin:

It all depends. I mean, sometimes, of course, if it's on workshop, that's different. I'm more talking about when I'm on my own. If I just have 10 minutes before I meet a friend, I'm going to make use of those 10 minutes. Even if I'm at the airport between flights, I'll have my camera out. So it all depends on how much time I have. If the spot is is so amazing. And I know I'm not going to have an opportunity to come back. I have unlimited patience and I'm not a patient person. I'm French and like, I'm not patient. I'm not a patient driver. For example, I drive with flashing my brights all the time, uh, which Americans don't like. We

Raymond Hatfield:

don't handle criticism very well. And that's, that's what the brights do.

Valerie Jardin:

But on the street, If I find a great spot and I'm determined to not settle and I'm not going to press the shutter unless the right, the best possible case scenario happens, then I could be there for an hour at that street corner or until some security tells me to leave.

Raymond Hatfield:

How often does that happen?

Valerie Jardin:

It all depends. It happens more in the U. S. cities than anywhere else, and it's not because of the photography. It's not because we're photographing people. It's because of the buildings.

Raymond Hatfield:

I see.

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah, like in the, in Minneapolis, we have a skyway system, and security doesn't want you to photograph the structure. And so they tell you to leave, but I usually wait till they come a second time. By then, hopefully, I have my shot.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wait for the second time. I guess that kind of brings up some questions about legalities, dealing with street photos. I'm sure that that's something that you have to deal with when taking photos of strangers or locations, but I've heard conflicting, like, well, if you're in a public place, anything goes. Can you kind of walk me through, some of the legalities that you have to deal with?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, all depends on the country, but even people have really misconception of what you know, the privacy laws are all about. And I use the same approach anywhere, whether I'm in Australia and the US and France. in Italy, it doesn't matter. I'm respectful. I don't photograph people in embarrassing or vulnerable situations and, or in situations of ridicule. Usually I'm invisible. And in most places, even with strict, so quote unquote, strict privacy laws, which are very gray to start with, they would have to prove that you're doing damage to them. to even have a case. And so in the U. S. Any public place is fine. You don't have a copyright on your face. That said, you cannot photograph somebody in their backyard. That would be, That despite an invasion

Raymond Hatfield:

of privacy.

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah. but even then, there was this photographer in New York that was, just across the street from a building that was all glass and he was photographing people in their homes and they took him to court or her, I don't remember. That was a few years ago. And they lost, I mean, the law sided with the photographer because they were not really recognizable. I mean, yes, they were in their private homes walking through their apartments. But, there was no harm done,

Raymond Hatfield:

So when does something like this come up? Does it come up when you're taking the photo? Or does it come up when you try to make money off of the photo?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, I only photograph for, fine art and editorial. So, sell products with my photos. Of course, if you were to use your street photography as stock photography to, to use the people like you can use a photograph of somebody walking down the street, to sell insurance on a billboard, for example, then you would definitely need not only a release from the subject, but also usually, witness or two. So it's pretty complicated. Street photographers shoot for themselves and fine art. So normally for those two editorial and fine art, you don't need a release from people. And seriously, no one objects. If you do it right and do it respectfully, even if someone notices that you took a picture and comes to you, just explain what you're doing. I'm documenting life, everyday life. It's so beautiful. Everyday life on the streets of New York or Paris. You're not doing anything wrong. You actually do it. You have to take your job as a street photographer seriously, because look at the photographs of some of the masters, even, Vivian Meyer, her photographs that were discovered, after she died even, how amazing to have that to go back as a historical, historical value point of view. So if you look at what you do as valuable that way, It's important to do it right. If we don't do what we do, all we'll have of the year 2019, 18, 19 and a few years before are selfies of people or surveillance footage. So I think it's really important to, to do it and to do it respectfully and to do it well. I take that seriously. I hope that my photographs someday will in 50 years, 100 years, people will look back and say, wow, look at those cars. Look how people were dressed at the time. How cool is that? Like we do when we look at the work of photographers from 50 years or more ago. And I, I think we, we don't look at it thinking, Oh man, that was really close to their private. There was an invasion of their privacy. Look, there are people kissing and blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, they're kissing in the public place. They're fair game to me. So

Raymond Hatfield:

yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things that I think of as well as because as I love looking at those old photos, my grandmother used to take a ton of photos and every time we'd get together, I'd always go through her photo albums and what would always stand out to me were how people were dressed and the cars on the street because it's just something that you can't see today, right? All of those cars out there. So I guess kind of what I think about is how do you preserve those memories for the future? Because if you just go out there, you take these photos, you leave them on a hard drive, right? We leave this earth. What happens at that point? The photos are just gone. Is there anything that you do to kind of ensure that, that the human race has a copy of your documentation?

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah, well, I print. I have books. I'm actually going to have a fine art book of some of my Paris photographs coming out this spring. I have some e books, which probably doesn't, uh, gonna help. There's not going to help in the long run, but, print books are good. And then printing, it's really, important to print. and I always encourage people say, print your best shot of every month so that at the end of the year, you can look back and see how much you've grown in your art and it's great to have, a selection of 12 photographs at the end of the year that you can actually be proud of. And maybe one or two of them will be. were they to be on a wall? So in street photography. That's not as easy as it looks. But in any types of photography, I think it's important to print and have that tangible print in your hands.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. That's interesting. Kind of side question. Say that you were to go out, what would you say about as the average of how long you go out, with a camera and shoot?

Valerie Jardin:

If I'm by myself, like I was just in Havana just for me, it was just, me trip, my reward at the end of a busy workshop season. So I spent four full six days, but four full days in Havana and two days of travel, with my camera and I was out from, from, from work. Morning till night, very few breaks, you know, there's walking, walking, walking, and it's, it's really one thing leads to another and it's, and then you have, elements serendipity comes into play. And then you meet someone and you walk into somebody's home and then you have this amazing light, amazing story you shoot, so I'm completely tireless when I'm in Paris on my own. I'll do 15 plus miles on a day by myself, less with students, but actually I probably do it just as much, but I'm kind of zigzagging from student to student. So, I usually double the mileage that they do, but you walk slower because you, first of all, if you walk too fast, you will. If any, if you stop, you see something and you stop, you're going to draw attention because you make that sudden stop. So walk slowly when you're in a area that's really, rich and potential, then you walk slowly and you don't want to miss a thing. And then, and you do a lot of back and forth and circling, and it'd be really interesting to actually see the. the itinerary of a street photographer on any given day from, uh, out of space. Yeah. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. From a GPS standpoint, I'm sure you can download

Valerie Jardin:

that. And I call it getting lost on purpose. Really? That's what you need to do. I think, on the streets, just let the streets surprise you.

Raymond Hatfield:

So you talked to there about Um, you talked earlier about learning to see photographically and you talk about that on your website. your website says that photographers need to shoot with more intent and make decisions before they press the shutter. And they do that by learning to see photographically. what do you mean by seeing photographically and how do we start doing that?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, first of all, don't rely on post processing. I'm actually working on a project right now, the artist in the space. Uh, it's a personal project. It's kind of a way to feed my creative soul in, between workshops when I'm in, Minneapolis in the winter month. and I photograph artists in their space. And the goal is to, to not spend more than five seconds on any of the photograph if any post processing at all and half of the photographs that I've produced so far And I just photographed the six number six in the series yesterday the musicians Half of them have absolutely no post processing. I shoot JPEG and I make the decision in camera before I press the shutter, and I think that's important. Even if you shoot raw, even if you can process those files to death, if that's your thing, I mean, go ahead. It's not mine. I'm happy when they come out just right, you should always aim at cropping in camera, getting the right, the right frame, the best frame possible. So practice. It's harder to do on the street because obviously things are moving, you but you can start by practicing in your house, even just, take an object, put it somewhere where the light is actually challenging and then shoot it like backlit and making all the settings work in camera and see if you can actually make it happen without having to do any post processing at all. And I shoot JPEG only. I haven't shot a raw file in about three or four years now. I shoot JPEG and my Fujifilm camera because the JPEGs are better than I could replicate from a RAW file. and it's street photography. There's nothing you can do to a photograph to make it good, if it's not good to start with. the RAW file really would, and I print really big from a JPEG. That's another misconception. so why have all those RAW files when I don't need them?

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Yeah, especially if there's no intent to edit them for sure. Is what you're saying to, to learn how to, to see more photographically, does that just come purely out of experience of shooting in bad light and poor conditions?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, it's actually, doing simple exercises. just, pick any object or walk down the street and make something very ordinary, exciting, what are you gonna do? Are you going to stand on that bench? Are you going to go underneath? How are you going to make that park bench exciting? It's a old park bench. How to make the extraordinary look. The ultimate the or make the ordinary look extraordinary. And so using difficult lighting situation will make anything look better. I mean, if you, should back lit and have some, bright highlights and deep shadows, create some mood. And those are some of my favorite things. conditions and it's definitely more challenging than, shooting in, overcast weather when you have really even light, but that to me, that's kind of boring. So always challenge yourself and just, I mean, one exercise that anyone can do is really to make something ordinary look extraordinary without going into post processing. And, look for a certain angle. The more you work your frame, the less you'll have to do it, as you learn. Sometimes I tell my son, okay, there, there's this really cool thing. I dunno, it could be like an old shutter, all, you know, lots of texture on a brick walls. Okay. Make that shutter better than it even looks on the wall. Really work it to death, shoot at different angles, different ways, different apertures work it until you get comfortable that you know exactly when you see that, that item that whatever it is, that object, you know exactly what you need to do to make the best, the strongest possible photograph, but that comes with experience. So in order to get there, you need to work it, work it, work it. And then until you get to that point where you'll see an object or scene or whatever, and you know exactly the angle that you need to shoot it to make the strongest possible photograph. So

Raymond Hatfield:

I love that. Nice and simple. Like you said, anybody can do that. Anybody can find something around their house that is, you know, Boring.

Valerie Jardin:

Oh yeah, I mean, I do, I shoot around my house all the time. There's not a day that I don't see, amazing light on my windowsill or the lines from the vertical blinds cast a shadow on an object and I'll grab that shot. I'll never show it. I'll never post it. But I, I practice, I saw and I captured it and I had a whole series for a while called actually, ordinary objects are beautiful. And that was the whole point. I would do it every day and I would post one a week and the story behind it. And it's a fun project. There's so many things people can do that are, that doesn't require any traveling at all.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure. Yeah. However, I think travel one of the big, yeah, one of the perks for sure. One thing I want to know, and it's, as a wedding photographer, I make my money because couples find me. They give me money for a certain job. I do that job and then I deliver it. When it comes to street photography, I know that you do a lot of workshops and you have books, but if somebody is getting started in street photography, can you just kind of walk me through how I guess, an average street photographer would even go about making any sort of income? You can't, you

Valerie Jardin:

really have to do it for you. It's something you do for yourself. And that is so important, no matter what you should shoot for you, you shouldn't even think of an audience and I shoot for myself. I teach workshops because people want to learn techniques and they want to see me shoot on the street and learn. But that said, I don't shoot for an audience either. I shoot for me. And that really is something that's so important. You can't shoot for likes on social media. You have to shoot for yourself. If otherwise you'd always shoot, you know, if you shoot for the likes or for what's trendy, you're not going to be happy. You have to do what works for you, make yourself happy. Yeah. So you can, uh, you can teach and, sell prints, but even then, I mean, I do sell prints, but I don't even, it's a full time job to sell prints. if you want to get your name out there, and I really don't have time. I do have prints available and they sell, collectors by them once in a while. And it's great. it's, you feel pretty good when you are shipping a print to the other side of the world. But, it's difficult. People don't usually put a photograph of a stranger on their wall, unless there is a really big name attached to that print. So there's fine art street photography that will be a little more subtle or artsy or, how could I say, like silhouettes. It's may sell better than, you know, facial expression or stranger because it's a little more, anonymous. But it's again that you're not going to make a living selling fine art prints of your street photography, but you know, it's fun to try if you do it for yourself, I think. And I think every street photographer. That I know is so passionate about what they do and they're so addicted to it. I don't think they care if they make money out of it or not. It sure wasn't my goal. I don't do anything for that. I do it, I only do things that I love doing. So, I could still be working for clients shooting interiors and, but I don't. I just love teaching and sharing, Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

I love it, I love it. I think that sometimes can be a, uh, You know, like this lofty idea, you know what I mean? Like, if you shoot it, they will come, and I like the approach that you're taking as a, like don't shoot for anybody else. Don't shoot for an audience, shoot for yourself. And if they like it, then they will come essentially. But

Valerie Jardin:

that's right. Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

When it comes to street photography, as a wedding photographer, I show up to every wedding with quite a bit of gear, it's very heavy, I bring an assistant with me to take care of some of that gear. As a street photographer. This is one thing that I get questions about in the Beginner Photography Podcast Facebook group. What sorts of gear, and we don't really talk a lot about gear on this podcast as I'm sure you know, it's not as important as a lot of beginners put the weight on it. but what sorts of gear are you showing up with? how much do you need and how little can you get away with?

Valerie Jardin:

Go out with your phone. I mean, honestly, I actually have some workshop students that will come with a DSLR cause that's what they've been shooting with and that's all they have. And then they see the advantage of having something smaller and less conspicuous and they will go out with, their phone for a day. And then they get. They get the best shots because they could get a little closer and it's an extension of them. I mean, let's talk about limitations, although they're getting fancier and fancier, but I shoot with one camera, one lens. It's actually a rangefinder type camera with a 23 millimeter lens. I can't change the lens. That camera is an extension of me and that's the best case scenario. I used to shoot with a DSLR. I mean, I started with a 5D Mark II, but then I would use, like a 40 millimeter, like the pancake lens, something that would make my camera the smallest, the smallest possible. And now I have the, we have the advantage of having cameras that are amazing. I mean, really amazing better than my, I mean, my X 100 F is better than my five D Mark two was, and, uh, amazing cameras are completely silent that look like old cameras that nobody's going to feel threatened by or even pay attention to. And, so we have gear that makes our life a lot easier on the streets for sure. But whatever you have, if it's not broken, don't fix it, right? Start with whatever you have, but soon you'll realize that if you really want to get into this, lighter is going to be better because you're going to be out there for so long. You never bring extra lenses on the street. Really, the only thing you should worry about is extra batteries and maybe an extra card. But like for me, I shoot JPEG. So, 32 gig will last me several weeks.

Raymond Hatfield:

You talked there about the lens that you bring. It's just a 23 mil lens that's attached to the camera. And we're talking Fuji. You're a Fuji photographer like myself. And that 23 millimeter lens is the equivalent to a 35 millimeter on a full frame sensor. And some beginners have questions about, is that too wide? Should they go with something maybe like a 50 or an 85? Can you just kind of talk about that for a moment?

Valerie Jardin:

Actually, 35 millimeter, the 23 that I have is 35 equivalent. As you said, is really An ideal street lens. It's not too wide, but, you can still get some pretty cool portraits too with it. If anything, I'll go wider. If I go any closer and I have a 35, which is a 50 equivalent, and I'm always too close. I have to step back because I'm so used to my focal length. And it's really, there are things that you need to, to decide before you press the shutter. First of all, whether it's going to be black and white or color. Well, even if you, I make that decision in camera before I press the shutter, but that is an important creative decision that you shouldn't wait till you see the picture on in Lightroom to make. You should always make that decision before you press the shutter, even if you shoot raw. Practice making that decision. Why is that a stronger black and white? Why would it be stronger in color? And I'll see you next time. Knowing your focal length so that you can move quickly. I'm so familiar with that focal length that I don't have to even think I won't have to crop because I know exactly where I need to stand to get exactly the frame, the way I want the final image to be. I mean, sometimes I'll have to crop because I can't, there is something that prevents me from getting closer. If it's somebody up a window or something, but, But usually I do very, very little cropping. If anything else, straighten the verticals and that's it. So that's the advantage of working with a fixed focal length and a consistency in the focal length. And also in a body of work, it's nice to have that consistency. If you jump from, 23 to 35 to 80 and back, it looks a little odd in a body of work or in a series. So it's good to keep that consistency, but to challenge myself, actually, I'm working on my personal project, the artist in the space with a 35 millimeter on my X Pro2, it's a really fast lens, a 1. 2, because sometimes I'm a, 1. 4, I'm in a really dark studio, so I needed the fastest prime. And it's challenging for me because again, it feels really tight, but it's also good to mix it up and not get stuck. You need to, to be flexible, but for street it's 23 and I do have a 23 for my X pro two, which is my waterproof kit, but it's the same focal length. So it's basically a different camera, but the exact same focal length. And I think that's important.

Raymond Hatfield:

How often are you, with a range finder camera? I know, when you get really comfortable with it. Oftentimes you don't even need to look through the viewfinder. Now, this question isn't going to apply to a lot of the listeners, but, it's interesting me is how often are you are looking through to get the perfect composition compared to how often, are you in a situation where you are involved in that moment as well, that you just know where to point your camera and take that photo.

Valerie Jardin:

actually I never looked through the viewfinder. I look, I use live view. because I think if, although this one doesn't have a tilt screen, I think if you look through the viewfinder all the time, you tend to shoot everything at eye level. Although yes, you can go down on your knees and so forth, but I never look at the viewfinder. So my photographs are much more dynamic that way, because I can shoot lower, higher. I can have more reach too, because I'm shooting wide. So just that arms reach can get me closer to to what I want. that also helps without your body, without physically getting closer. And no, wait, your question was, I forgot the question. So yeah, going back to, being familiar with the focal length is important because, and, um, looking through the viewfinder, that's what the question was. Sorry. I often, you're right, because I know that focal length so well, I don't need to look at the viewfinder half the time because I know exactly what I'm going to get, with. Because it's, again, it's more of an extension of me. And sometimes you're in a situation where, for example, you're sitting across somebody really interesting in the subway in New York. You don't want them to know that you're taking a picture of them because if they notice you, whatever caught your attention in the first place is going to be gone. So then, why take the picture? It won't make any sense. So just to really be more invisible, just shooting completely blind is, is good. Did that answer your question?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, no, it absolutely made sense for sure. And like you said, if you're sitting across from somebody, on the subway, that's why it makes sense to, to know your settings. So you don't have to hold up the camera, do that test.

Valerie Jardin:

But that said, if you're shooting with a camera that you have to bring it to your eye, then just be completely open. Don't try to sneak the shot. Just, you know, I used to bring

Raymond Hatfield:

the camera.

Valerie Jardin:

Yeah, I know, but I used to shoot people on the subway or in the metro in Paris with a DSLR. It's noisy, I had to bring it to my eye, I never used non live view, and, I just went for it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Don't

Valerie Jardin:

try, don't try to sneak the shot.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, we mentioned black and whites there, as that's one of the big things that you should, make that decision before you press the shutter. Know whether or not a photo should be black and white. When I think of street photography, I think of black and white photography. Can you tell me why that is? I have no idea why that is.

Valerie Jardin:

It's easier, first of all, and I think it's because you think of the classics, but, black and white is a little, a little bit easier because you have less distractions. And sometimes that timeless quality, of the black and white photograph. So black and white as also a mood that works well with straight photography. So those are really important things to consider in your choice, but sometimes it's all about the color. And a lot of street photographers will only shoot color or only shoot black and white. I do a lot of both because, I let the subject make that decision. If the subject, it's all about color, it would make no sense to shoot it in black and white. But on the other hand, if, there's this amazing subject, but then there's the awful colorful distraction. Then of course, it's going to be stronger in black and white. So I make those decisions. If I can't make the decision on the spot, then my camera will be on film simulation bracketing, where I actually have, the options. But I think it's really important. It's very, very rare that you'll ever hesitate between one or the other in post processing. It's very rare that the photograph would be equally strong in color or in black and white. Very rare.

Raymond Hatfield:

Another side question as a Fuji fan myself, what are your favorite, color in black and white Fuji film simulations?

Valerie Jardin:

I only shoot classic chrome and color only. And I have, I've shot a lot of color since they came up with classic chrome because I think classic chrome has that timeless quality to it. And it just fits my style of photography. So I shoot classic chrome and then acros and black and white. And for example, I was just in Havana and I shot more black and white than color. And there was room for both. Definitely. I just, I just published YouTube video with a selection of 70 some of my photographs from Havana and they start with color and they go into black and white, but those were decisions that I mostly made on the spot. Sometime I was in film simulation, so I actually had both at the end of the day, but, sometimes the color will distract from the mood or from the expression and a place like Havana is so colorful that sometimes it's just too colorful. And then you, it doesn't translate that emotion like a black and white will. If you remove color distraction, your viewer will stay on the subject a lot longer. If you have so much, it's so busy around your subject, viewer will go to the human face and then will look all around and not stay on the human face long enough. So

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm glad that you covered that that was my exact question I've never been to Cuba, but from every photo I've seen it seems so colorful and I'm glad that you gave an explanation as to why black and white. Yeah better in a very colorful situation like that. So this is my last question. I think I'm really excited for this episode but I know that we've gone over our time together, so I got this one last question for you, and that is, if you had to go back to when you bought that first film camera, you moved to Minneapolis, you bought that first camera, that's been 20 years now, after 20 years of knowledge, what do you wish that you could go back and tell a young 1998 Valerie about photography that would help her today?

Valerie Jardin:

I think I pretty much learned as I was doing it, you know, not. Not to get stuck and not to like, I mean, I even shot weddings back then, you have to try everything. You don't know what you want to do. And I didn't pursue them because I really didn't enjoy them. But a lot of people stay stuck in something and they feel, oh, well, that's all I can do, but no, you, you're never stuck. And, And Ari's that's one thing Ari's work on personal project. Cause at one point early on in my career working for clients, it became a job. And, it took me a little while to realize why it's because I was not working on personal projects. So I wasn't feeding my creative soul. I was only working for other people. And so it took me a little while, but I finally realized what was happening. And I started working on personal project and sharing that work, the personal work, share that work separately from your commercial work, if need be, but share that work on a blog or something, but continue to work on personal project. Because at one point. I was this close to quitting photography altogether because it had become a job. I was working for clients and there is no way I was going to bring that camera out on weekends if I didn't have to. And I didn't want to post process any more pictures, certainly not pictures that I would do on my own time. And that's when I realized that you run into that risk whenever you turn your passion into a profession. And if you can stay a hobby photographer forever. If you can afford it, stay a hobbyist photographer. I feel like I'm back to being a hobbyist now because I sell my vision, I don't shoot for clients anymore. So I'm shooting a hundred percent for me and there's no better place for a photographer to be.

Raymond Hatfield:

That is definitely something that I know is gonna resonate with a lot of photographers as now is definitely a time where a lot of people feel like they have, like if they help, if they're holding a camera they have to go into business for themselves. A lot of people don't want to do that and I'm glad that you shared that. I'm glad that you shared that perspective for sure.

Valerie Jardin:

Professional photographer doesn't mean they do better than the hobbyist photographer.

Raymond Hatfield:

Very true I look at some of the members in the beginner photography podcast Facebook group and think what am I doing? Valerie again, thank you so much for your time coming on the show before I let you go can you let the listeners know where they can find you online and keep up with you?

Valerie Jardin:

Well, everything is under Valérie Jardin, V A L E R I E, J A R D I N, and I rank pretty high on Google, so a search will probably, you'll have everything, but everything is on my website, valeriejardin. com, whether it's the books, the webinars, the podcast hit the streets on, iTunes and everything else I do. yeah. The blogs and so forth.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right. Huge thank you to Valerie for coming on the podcast. This week's action item, which is the one thing that if you implement it to this week, will move the needle forward in your photography journey, is this find the light, then place your subject. This one honestly really helped me to create much more interesting images. So when building a photo, I think that we typically just start with the subject first. I have a person I need to photograph them, you know, what can I do with them? That's how I got started. That's again, I think how everybody pretty much looks at how to build a photo. But I want to challenge you to first look for the light and then place your subject there. Now in the case of street photography, you could find beautiful light and then just wait for something interesting to happen there. In the case of portrait photography, you would find a beautiful light and then place your subject in it and then give them an action or something interesting to do. Now, I fully understand that that may seem like, okay, well you got six of one and half a dozen of another, but I promise you it's not two of the same thing. This is a fundamentally different approach to the way that you capture images by while completely seeing the scene in front of you and interacting with it entirely different. Having a subject and trying to place them into the world is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. But looking for beautiful light and then placing your subject in there is a much more harmonious experience when it comes to photography. And again, I understand that it may seem very similar, but it won't be until you try that, you'll realize how much more of a game changer it is. And I would love to see whatever you come up with. Feel free to share it in the Beginner Photography podcast community. It is a free and amazing community. That is also the safest place on the internet for new photographers like yourself, so feel free to come join us. There's more than 6,000 fellow listeners like yourself. You can join right now, again, for free over@beginnerphotopod.com slash group. That is it for today. Until next week, remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow. Talk soon.