The Beginner Photography Podcast

Overcoming Imposter Syndrome in Wedding Photography with Trevor Dayley

• Raymond Hatfield

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#590 Trevor Dayley is a renowned wedding photographer recognized as one of the best in Arizona and among the top 100 wedding photographers in the United States. In this episode, Trevor shares his personal journey and offers an honest look at the realities behind awards and industry recognition. Despite his accolades, Trevor admits to ongoing feelings of self-doubt, comparison, and imposter syndrome—challenges that persist no matter how experienced or celebrated a photographer becomes.

KEY TOPICS COVERED

  1. The Emotional Challenges of Photography - Both Trevor and Raymond discuss dealing with self-doubt, comparison, and imposter syndrome—even after receiving major awards and recognition. Trevor shares how these feelings never fully go away and draws analogies (like the crayon box and oak tree roots) to explain the importance of a wide range of emotions and building community.
  2. Building a Sustainable Photography Career - Trevor reveals his transition from a finance job to full-time photography, candidly discussing the behind-the-scenes hustling, family upheaval, and the critical role of vendor relationships—especially with wedding coordinators—in growing his business. He shares time-management lessons, including the importance of setting boundaries and not falling into the “hustle trap” at the expense of personal life.
  3. Leveraging Social Media & Embracing Your Style - The conversation covers using social media as a portfolio and tool for genuine networking instead of chasing validation. Trevor offers actionable tips: celebrate others' successes, avoid perfectionism, give yourself creative challenges, and don't shy away from showing your unique style (even if it feels “weird” or niche).

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

  • Hustle Trap: The cycle of feeling pressured to work nonstop, often leading to burnout and imbalance between work and personal life; highlighted as an unhealthy myth within creative industries.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

  1. How can self-doubt be reframed as a helpful motivator rather than an obstacle in your photography journey?
  2. In what ways can building communities with other creatives or vendors support your growth and resilience?
  3. How do you manage the balance between achieving technical perfection and delivering authentic moments in your work?
  4. What unique aspects of your personality or style could you lean into more, rather than hide on social media?

RESOURCES:
Visit Trevor Dayley’s Website - https://www.trevordayley.com/
Follow Trevor Dayley on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/trevordayley
Follow Magnet Mod on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/magnetmod/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!


Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Trevor Dayley:

It's crazy how often we look at our own work and we are so critical of ourselves. That would be my, my first thing is I would just tell people, just be nice to yourself. Like, you're an amazing person. You're doing amazing work. You're doing stuff for people. Just be nice to yourself and don't be so overly critical of your work and try to be such a perfectionist.

Raymond Hatfield:

Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography Podcast, brought to you by Cloud Spot. I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield, and today we are chatting with highly acclaimed longtime photographer Trevor Daley about how to conquer self-doubt, how to build resilience, and find lasting confidence in your photography. But first. Guess what the beginner of Photography podcast brought to you by Clouds Spott? Yes, you got it. I heard you say it. Yeah. With Clouds spott, you can impress your clients with a beautiful gallery that is not only easy to view and share, but also easy to download images on any device. With Cloud Spott, you can control things like image size, you can add a watermark and download limits as well. So what are you waiting for? Grab your free forever account today over@deliverphotos.com and only upgrade when you are ready. So today's guest, Trevor, has been in the photo education space for a long time. In fact, I remember reading some of his articles on like Fstoppers back in 20 12, 20 13. Like I said, long time and even then he had a ton of experience. But I mean, it's because he has a lot to say because he is been shooting weddings for more than 20 years. And in that time he has received, I mean, multiple, multiple awards for his photography. And from the outside, I think it looks like he has achieved the dream of what so, so, so many photographers, envision and, and what they want. And then not long ago I read this post that he made for the Mag Mod Instagram account, and I'm gonna read it for you now. He says, if I were the devil trying to ruin a photographer's career. Here's how I would do it. I wouldn't touch their gear, but I'd make them question if they even deserve to hold it. I'd show them other photographers work, but only the stuff that went viral. Only the perfectly curated images. Never the process. I'd whisper things like you're behind or everyone else is growing, or you're stuck, and then I would just sit back and watch them spiral. I'd convince them that every client that ghosted them was simply proof that they're not good enough, not worth it, not wanted. I would praise the hustle, I'd worship ship it until they forgot what rest feels like, and then burnt out with a full calendar and an empty soul. I'd use silence like a weapon. One post with a few likes, huh? Total failure. One inquiry left on red, that's rejection. One off comment that would get you to think maybe you're not cut out for this. I convinced them that their style was too weird or their editing was too niche, their vision was just too much, and slowly I'd mold them into a copy of somebody else. I'd get them to say yes to every single gig that came their way until they hated their clients, until they resented their work and until they blame photography for the exhaustion that I caused. I'd make them feel fake when they succeeded. I'd make them feel unseen when they fail and alone either way. I would weaponize their own ambition. I'd make them obsessed with growth metrics, numbers, and numb to any of the real meaning. I wouldn't need to destroy their career, just their confidence. The rest, well, it would just unravel on its. because a camera doesn't create anything without courage behind it, and I would make them never feel brave again. I'd smile every time they would shake their head at their own work'cause it didn't feel good enough. And I'd win without ever lifting a finger. If that sounds familiar, it means I haven't won yet. You're still here. Still holding the camera, still creating, still fighting back. So keep creating, especially when the voices say not to'cause every photo you take is proof that I didn't break. Trevor, you have been, voted one of the best or the best wedding photographer in Arizona. You've been voted one of the top 100 best wedding photographers in the country as well, and I'm sure that listeners right now are thinking to themselves after hearing your post, like, if I was in Trevor's shoes being praised for my work, I wouldn't have these thoughts. I. If I was voted the best in my state, I would have the confidence, I would be creative. I would have no worries in photography. But is that the case? Because clearly you wrote the post, like something made you sit down and write this.

Trevor Dayley:

I wish I could say it. It was unfortunately, I feel like sometimes when you get those awards, it's almost like short term bandaid, right? It, it kind of makes you feel good for a short time, and I almost feel like sometimes those awards are better for. so that your family feels like, oh, okay, Trevor's actually legit. He knows what he's doing. Right? Like other photographers acknowledge him. But I think, I think it's still just that, that sense of like self-doubt, that comparison, all those feelings, they still, they don't go away. It doesn't matter how many times you win those things or you know, you get on a stage or whatever it is. It just feels like it still hangs there.

Raymond Hatfield:

why do you think it doesn't? I don't wanna say it doesn't give validation because there is a sense of validation there, but like, personally deep down, how come it feels more surface level? How come we tell ourselves that it doesn't matter when somebody's presenting us, with a title or an award.

Trevor Dayley:

it's interesting. I think I'm gonna just. this up as one of those life challenges, right? I think oftentimes we look at challenges and sometimes it gets us down and we get a little bit depressed and we kind of feel like, oh man, I can't do this or whatever. But I think ultimately we have challenges in life so we can grow.'cause I think. If we don't actually feel that way, maybe if we don't feel that self-doubt or that comparison, maybe we go the opposite way and we all of a sudden become prideful and we become the type of person that nobody wants to be around. because we're out there kind of throwing our peacock feathers and saying, look at me. Look at me. Right. So, it's funny when you ask that question, the first thing that came to my mind was, I need to go talk to my wife because, for many reasons. But one of the big reasons is my wife is actually, she has her master's in therapy. Every day she talks to people about challenges and difficulties that they're going through and the way they feel. I know this morning she told me. That she likes to tell her clients. And it was just funny. We were just talking as we were both in the bathroom, but she says she likes to tell her clients that, that emotions and feelings are kind of like crayons. And if you only have one and you're coloring a picture, it doesn't really show much. And so oftentimes we have to have those feelings or those emotions so that we get a beautiful, coloring a beautiful picture. I don't talk to my wife enough though, to, I need to hire her to be my therapist,

Raymond Hatfield:

That is beautiful. I love that idea. I try to tell my kids, I guess it's a similar thing if you want to think about it like that, but it's like a garden can't grow if it's just sunshine. Like it needs some rain, right? There needs to be this range of, emotions or conditions for you to, to fully grow. So, I love that I'm gonna start thinking about that crane example more. I think that's gonna resonate more with my young daughter than this whole growing an entire garden example. So thank you for that.

Trevor Dayley:

One other thing I want to just add to that and my sweet mom, which probably talk a about her a little bit later'cause she's a big part of where I am today and how I became a photographer, and she passed away in 2017, but she used to always tell me the story of oak trees. And oak trees, how they don't grow their roots down deep, actually grow their roots out and they interconnect with other oak trees.

Raymond Hatfield:

Huh.

Trevor Dayley:

and it's that, that sense of community, right? If we're just growing down, straight down and we're just like, it's just me. I don't need everyone else. Then I think sometimes we. we lose that. And I think that's what's so great about what you've done is you've kind of created this, this great sense of community where people are like, Hey, we gotta help each other. And oak trees, they get taller than most

Raymond Hatfield:

huge. Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

Huge. Right? and so it, what's interesting is if we're gonna grow tall, if we're gonna get up there, we have to interconnect with others. And we have to use that as our support system because that self-doubt and that comparison and all those things that I talked about in that post, that's. Otherwise it just, like the devil knocking us down and keeping us from doing what we really love to do. So.

Raymond Hatfield:

it is funny. I feel how much it resonated with people, right? Because, sticking with your example there as, as the oak tree, sometimes when I read something I feel like, wait, is this person speaking directly to me? Like, this is exactly how I feel. But I don't know if, do other people feel this way as well? But to see all of the comments, to see all the people saying, holy cow, like this spoke directly to me, was almost eyeopening. Right? It made me feel, seen that others feel the same way. Why do you think that it resonated with, with so many other photographers?

Trevor Dayley:

I think it resonated with a lot of photographers simply because we all go through it, but we don't talk about it. we don't have that water cooler, time to escape and talk about our boss, or, know, whatever it is people do in the offices or, you know, talk to each other on cubicles and, and rant about, customers or whatever. We don't really have that. And so I think oftentimes as photographers, we tend to channel it all and we tend to hold it all in. And then when we see somebody else say, like, that post what I had said there, it all of a sudden resonates where it's like, dang, that's exactly how I feel. And honestly, when I was reading the comments to the Post it was like. Watering my eyes, or I don't know, maybe my wife was cutting onions in the kitchen. But, but it,

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

but it truly, it truly made me feel like, wow, I'm also not alone. and you know, when I did the post it, it's funny, I'm sure you've seen, or heard, I think it's, is it Paul Harvey that did the, if a devil wants to destroy the nation or something like that. I can't remember what it was. I

Raymond Hatfield:

No.

Trevor Dayley:

it was Paul Harvey. Paul Harvey was, you know, the old on the radio and so forth, but that's where it came from. It was that same idea of, but not destroying a nation. But if he wants to destroy me as a photographer, what would he do? And as I started putting notes down, it was funny how quickly everything just kind of came to my mind because I think I was just waiting to share it with somebody,

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Trevor Dayley:

and I think that's where a lot of photographers are. They have those thoughts and they want to share it, and there's just no one to share it with.

Raymond Hatfield:

And sometimes it feels like the internet can just be this, place to just vent and not exactly in the most healthy of ways, right? Like sometimes it's just a bunch of complaining, especially when it comes to, things like, getting clients and things like that. I know a lot of, listeners in the podcast, community as well have thought, like, I don't know how good this is for me, as a photographer. it's helpful in the sense that we can communicate a lot of information being the internet, but ultimately I think there's just so much more comparison that we're doing rather than taking the information and growing ourself where, and then that just causes things like self-doubt, of course. So. I think that's one of the big reasons why it resonated with others as well. But, before we move on too much more, I wanna find out a little bit more about you because one of the first questions I always ask, for new guests is, when did you know that photography was gonna play an important role in your life? and you alluded to your mom right there. So, tell me the story. how did you get into photography?

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So my mom, she loved photography when she was younger and, as a teenager and so forth. And so she did a little bit, would charge a little bit of money here and there to photograph like models and headshot portfolios and so forth. But she never really made money doing it, per se. It was basically enough to buy another camera, more rolls of film back in the days. like that. But what was nice was I grew up seeing a camera and I, got to know what it was when I was young. so eventually the Canon AE one that she had, that kind of became my camera. And I remember she had a 7,200 lens on it. Not like the fancy 72 hundreds that we see nowadays, right. But, it was a 7,200 lens. And, that was like my camera, that she basically would just buy me rolls of film whenever I wanted. and I loved shooting with it and I loved going to the dark room and I loved, seeing the pitchers, develop under the water after putting'em on the, exposing'em to light and so forth. I just, that whole aspect, I love the smell. I dunno if you ever got a chance to be work with, in dark rooms, but I love the

Raymond Hatfield:

Not printing? No, just, just developing.

Trevor Dayley:

It was funny. You'd wash your hands afterwards, but that smell would just stay on your hands. I just, I loved it. Oddly as that sounds. It was fun. but so my mom always said. When I grew up, I grew up with a basketball in one hand and a camera in the other. Those were like the two things that I loved the most. It wasn't cartoons on Saturday, it was basketball or photography. but you know what's interesting is, is as I went throughout my life, as much as she was an inspiration, she also kind of held me back a little bit in that like, Hey, you can't make a living doing this. Like, you'll never actually make money doing photography, so make sure you study and do all the other things. And so I actually, I went on, I studied business management. it did finance for a number of years. And here's the funny thing, I actually had an office that overlooked, a wedding venue. And so I used to look down into the wedding venue and I would see couples touring the wedding venue and seeing it. And I used to think to myself, man, I really want to like photograph weddings. Like that's what I really want to

Raymond Hatfield:

Really?

Trevor Dayley:

I remember I bought a digital camera. Gosh, I don't wanna get my, my dates wrong, but I want to say probably 2004, 2005, maybe. Maybe it was 2006 even. I, I wanna say it was a little bit earlier, I had three younger girls and I started just photographing them'cause again, it was kind of like picking up what I used to love doing as a kid. and then one day I came home and I told my wife, I said, babe, I said, if I can book 10 weddings, well you let me quit my job.

Raymond Hatfield:

10 weddings. Okay.

Trevor Dayley:

yeah, that was my goal, right? And so she's like, hey, do as long as you can support our family, right. And so I actually, I booked five, and then I came home one day and I said, I'm done with my job. I quit today like.

Raymond Hatfield:

I've changed the rules of the bet. I'm done.

Trevor Dayley:

Exactly. So I didn't live up to my side of the bargain, but I will say this, I didn't have any savings or anything and it really pushed me or forced me to, to just go out there and meet wedding planners and tell'em who I was. And it was kind of a unique time because there was this transition from film to digital. And then also at the time, a lot of people with digital, they were shooting digital, but they were also making you print, you had to buy the

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

so forth. And I was more like, Hey, I'm gonna give you the photos. It's not that big a deal. here, here's the interesting thing, Raymond. My mom, like I said, she was my inspiration. But I did not tell her that I quit my job and started doing wedding photography, and that was May when I did it. It wasn't until Thanksgiving

Raymond Hatfield:

No way.

Trevor Dayley:

yeah, we, we were sitting around the table and she said, she goes, how's your job going? how are things going at the, the

Raymond Hatfield:

What job?

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah. I said, unfortunately, they had to let me go. I lied. I'm sorry, mom. I apologize, but I. I kind of lied because I was afraid'cause I knew that, as much as she loved photography as well, she just wanted the best for her kids. And she didn't think, you know, the starving artist. Right. And so yeah, I fibbed a little bit and I, I told her, but don't worry, mom, I've been doing wedding photography and of course her eyes get really big, you know, like, what? I said, and I, and I got weddings booked like I'm doing. Okay. I wanna say were to go like one year from that May, I wanna say I probably did about 20 weddings. But the next year I did 52 weddings.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow.

Trevor Dayley:

yeah, which was way, and that's the most I've ever done in one year, and I'll never do that again. But it was just, I was taking anything and everything right, and just trying to, to get out there as much as I could,

Raymond Hatfield:

You know what's funny is that, my wife talks to her mom on the phone multiple times a day, right? Like every single day. And I probably talked to my mom on the phone once every other week, right? And I was like, that's such a, that's such a boy story, right? Like, not to tell your mom that you completely changed your career, and even to do this thing that, that she loved as well. And that is, I could totally see myself doing that. I could totally see myself doing that,

Trevor Dayley:

I just didn't want anyone to talk me out of it. And, you know, I'll add one more thing to this. It's, it's a little bit morbid, but I always thought I was gonna die early. Like,

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Trevor Dayley:

like I was gonna die in my thirties. I mean, literally from, as a little kid, I always thought, I'm like, oh, I'm never gonna live that long. I could never see myself as a grandpa or whatever. And so, oddly enough, when I made that decision, it was, I want to do something for myself that I know I love. And that I know I can do well before that happens. Fortunately, I'm, I've made it into my late forties, so I'm doing okay. But that was also kind of a motivation for me as, as weird as that sounds.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I think, maybe that's the thing that you should talk to your wife about. Like why, why did you have that thought in your head? That's, that's very interesting. I wanna go back to that decision though to leave your job, right? So you said, if I can book 10 weddings, can I quit my job? Right. You booked five and I'm assuming to this point you'd never shot a wedding before.

Trevor Dayley:

No, I had done a little bit of video for weddings back when I was in, college.

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay.

Trevor Dayley:

video and I did, but, so I had a exposure to the industry a little bit, but

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

never photography.

Raymond Hatfield:

wow. you just really dove all the way in trying to book as many weddings as possible before you even knew if you were truly gonna like it or not. that is a huge gamble. That is a huge gamble. so then building on the idea that you didn't want anybody to talk you out of it,

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Why weddings? Like, why was that the thing when I feel like there's so many other ways that would be easier. There's so many other genres that could be easier to get into photography with a shorter lead time. Right. Seniors, families, all these things. What was it specifically about weddings that drew you to them?

Trevor Dayley:

It's interesting, so seniors at that time wasn't extremely popular. Like it's gotten a lot more popular as a genre of photography. And honestly, if I could start my business over again, I would love to focus just on seniors. Like it would be amazing to go out and shoot a session for an hour and a half and spend an hour and a half editing and be done and passing on, you know, like I would love that. But at the time it wasn't really popular. I will say families, I love my kids, but I have the hardest time photographing other people's little toddlers and things.

Raymond Hatfield:

Dude, same. Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

I would much rather take a 15 hour wedding than an hour of like dealing with a crying kid. and the funny thing is, it's not even usually the kid, like I have empathy for the kid. It's typically the. Parents,'cause the parents get all frustrated and they're like, Yona like, just smile at Trevor. Like, will

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

You know? And then they, you try to bribe'em and things. honestly for me it was more, I just enjoyed going to, to being at the happiest day for people. to be able to be there and document it. Like, I got to see so many amazing stories just of things unfolding. And, and honestly, I think the cool thing about weddings too, well. I shouldn't say about weddings. This is really about everything. I was just gonna say, as, as a photographer, the coolest thing about it is your photos get more and more valuable as time passes. Well, as long as the couple doesn't get a divorce. Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

Sure.

Trevor Dayley:

but I mean, but like, the amount of times I've seen them, the photos I've taken used, like, on, again, I don't mean to be morbid here, but like funeral programs, like parents who have passed and things like that, to me, just touches my heart so much to know that. I was able to create something for them that they wanted it to be like, this is me,

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Trevor Dayley:

what I look like. and I think as a photographer that is just special. there's not very many jobs out there that things get more and more valuable, as time passes. So it seems like everything just gets less and less valuable.

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Yeah. I once had a shot, a wedding where, this was like a terrible situation. It was pretty early on in my career where, the father. The bride was like, how do I know you're not gonna run off with our money? Like, is there any way that I can pay you the final payment after the wedding? And I was just so desperate. I was just like, yeah, okay, sure. Yeah, that's fine. Well, he didn't tell his daughter the bride this, agreement that we had had. So after the wedding, I had edited up all the photos. They're done, I'm ready to deliver them. I can't until I get that last payment. So I reach out to the father, I tell him, Hey, photos are ready, ready for that payment whenever you are. I hear no response. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. Still, nothing. So finally I have to reach out to the bride and tell her like, Hey, your photos are done. In fact, they've been done. I'm just waiting on that final payment from your dad. And that's when she let me know that, Her dad had actually passed away just like weeks. or I'm sorry, not weeks. Just days after the wedding. Just days after the wedding. I know. And I thought like, Ugh, what a situation to be in. Like, I just wanted to get into this career to just take some cool photos, And now here I am, creating something for these families that. I can't understand the weight or the value of, and that is, um, yeah, just a testament to exactly what you said there. It's something incredible to be a part of and I think that for me, like that made me approach shooting weddings entirely different once that had happened. But, there's also a lot of things when it comes to photography that aren't as exciting that aren't as, that don't get us going. Right. So going back to your post there, we talked, a little bit about this earlier from, you address so many things from the comparison that we have to other photographers, the self-doubt in our work itself. the hustle trap, like, man, is that a thing, right? staying creative, the struggles of business.

Trevor Dayley:

Hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

I know that you've gone through all these things'cause you've been in it for as, as long as you have. So let me ask you, what is the most difficult part for you for being a photographer? As in like on its hardest day? What about being a wedding photographer makes you consider giving it all up?

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah. I think it will be surprising for a lot of people to hear this, but I think the honest answer is the self-doubt. I've shot over 500 weddings. You would think after 500 weddings that there's gotta be a point after a hundred weddings. You would think there's gotta be a point where it's like, I can do this just fine. Like I can go out there and I can, I can create images and I can capture and document it and make people look their best. You would think, right? But it just seems like that that self-doubt never goes away. You know, a lot of people use the word imposter syndrome. I don't belong here any moment now. Somebody's gonna knock me on the shoulder and say, Hey, you need to leave. You're

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

for this. And truly, I think what it's gotten to a point now where I've just come to accept that that's gonna be there and that self doubt's going to, it's like that little angel or the little devil that sits on your shoulder, right? And it says, no, you can't do this. You can't do this. And I kind of have to just let it, like, let it be. There's a great book. I don't know if you've read this book or heard of this book. But I've recently been listening to it on audiobook, and I, I recommend anybody if you like audiobooks, the author, she does a great job actually, reading her own books and I, I love'em, but it's Mel Robbins and the book is, So let them theory.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, I've heard of it. I have, I have not read it, but I I've heard of it, yes.

Trevor Dayley:

I love that book. Two of my favorite chapters, actually. I listened to'em multiple times. It's chapter nine and Chapter 10, and one of'em, chapter nine's about how life isn't fair, and then chapter 10 is about comparison. So I think it goes right back to that post, right? Which is like. Life isn't fair. I really don't belong here. This hand of cards has been dealt to me. I really don't think I could play it the best way possible. You know, I'm comparing myself to everybody else. Like, it's, yeah, I think it's just come to the point where now I've, I've realized like I'm not gonna find a solution to it. I need to just accept it. It's gonna be there, let it happen, and then just let me excel in whatever environment I'm in at that moment, you know?

Raymond Hatfield:

I can definitely relate to the showing up to a wedding. And like you said, more than a hundred weddings in, it's like, why do I still feel butterflies? Like what? Like what could possibly happen today that, I'm gonna completely bomb, but you do still feel it, so,

Trevor Dayley:

Just to add to that, I've kind of come to that, that point now where butterflies, to me, it just reminds me that, hey, you're doing something important.

Raymond Hatfield:

huh.

Trevor Dayley:

sitting on the couch watching tv. You're not gonna have butterflies doing that, right. But

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Trevor Dayley:

up to a wedding, it's like that nervousness. it's the same feeling. used to speak a lot at WPPI. So I spoke for four or five years in a row, and it was on the platform stages in front of a few hundred photographers. And I love public speaking, like I actually don't mind it at all, but every single time I would get those butterflies and I had to remind myself like, Hey, you're doing something important. You're hopefully gonna make an impact on at least one person out there. And so, that's what those butterflies are for, just to remind you of that. And I think it's the same thing with weddings, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

That is a really good way to look at it. Yeah, I like that it's like your body's telling you that you're taking this seriously and that you don't wanna mess it up. I like that a lot. So then how do we work within that, right? Because if we have these feelings, how do we know if that feeling is, unpreparedness versus, man, I just really want to do a good job. Like this is specifically for beginners who maybe they don't have many weddings or shoots under their belt.

Trevor Dayley:

That's such a great question because that whole preparedness part of it, we can always feel like we can do more. Right,

Raymond Hatfield:

Always.

Trevor Dayley:

And so I don't think that will ever go away. And again, I think that's just a reminder. Like, Hey, you want to do the best you can do. And so you're constantly trying to tell yourself like, what more can I do to be prepared? And so that unpreparedness is just you reminding yourself like you're awesome. Like you want to do the best you can possibly do. So I have a son who's a national level wrestler, right? He's 16 years old, but he wrestles on big national stages and he's just, he's one of the best out there and he is incredible. And I have to tell him all the time, like, the anxiety, the nerves that you're feeling like that's just gonna help you perform your best. Right. and it's kind of like, there's a great, I can't remember, I wish I could give credit to the person who said this. It might've actually been in Mel Robbins book. Quite honestly, I don't remember. Brene Brown also does a lot of great books that I love reading, might, might've got it from her, but what they said was, when you're crossing a street, if you don't have anxiety, then I would be nervous for you. Right. And, and I don't mean like anxiety, like, debilitating anxiety, but if you're not a little bit nervous when you're crossing the street, like, paying attention, looking for cars and stuff, then I would be nervous that you're just gonna walk out there and get hit by a car. Like you gotta be a little bit nervous. And I think that goes with weddings. It goes with my son when he wrestles, like all that, it has to be there, right? Like, that's how we perform our best is when we have those feelings. So I think it's a good thing to embrace and be excited about it and just acknowledge it and know that it's gonna come. And then when it's there, it's like, Hey, this is cool. I'm turned on, I'm locked in. I'm ready to go and I'm gonna perform my best today.

Raymond Hatfield:

Wow. that's a perfect, example right there. Perfect analogy. I'm trying to think though for a moment. I mean, I know that you've been in the world of professional photography for so long, but there are a number of listeners who photography is their hobby, right? And when they go out and shoot, maybe there aren't the same stakes. They're going out to a local park and they're just looking for some good light or a bird or something like that. And maybe they don't feel that same intensity of, of the butterflies or the nervousness. Do you have any recommendations on how they can maybe artificially bring some weight and stress into their photography to that will encourage them to be pushed rather than scare them away.

Trevor Dayley:

Ooh, that's a great question, Raymond.

Raymond Hatfield:

Thanks.

Trevor Dayley:

I wish I could have more of those days where I don't feel, because,

Raymond Hatfield:

Right.

Trevor Dayley:

think that, I think that goes to. know, the photographers that when you're getting paid for jobs constantly, you want to just do those like jobs for yourself, right?

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

do we call those, like the creative projects or, something that we're, and I think that's wise is because we want to go on a shoot and not fill that. I would say, if I wanted to fill a little bit of nervousness, I would try to give myself a challenge of something that maybe I haven't done in the past. Whether that's, maybe it's using off-camera flash, right? Maybe I've never actually pushed myself and used flash, and it doesn't matter. It could be photographing flowers, it could be photographing people. Maybe it's, Hey, I've always shot with a wide open aperture because, that's the way I learned. I saw incredible photographers. I want to replicate their style. So I always shot at 1.2 or 2.8. know what, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna use the lens. And I'm gonna shoot everything at F eight and I'm gonna see what I can create, with that. Or this time I'm gonna go out and photograph, but I'm only, I'm gonna make sure there's always something in the foreground, middle ground background. I'm always gonna make sure that I have layers to my photograph. And I, I think if I just gave myself a little bit more of those challenges as opposed to just going out and shooting to shoot, I think that would maybe generate some of that nerves a little bit. Like, okay, I need to perform and then. Of course, I think always just sharing your work too. oftentimes it's a little bit less, intense. We don't really feel the nerves if we know nobody else is gonna see it. Right? So if we kind of challenge ourselves and say, Hey, I'm gonna go out and do this shoot and I'm gonna make sure I share two or three photos with other people, I think that would probably kick up some of those nerves too. But

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

though.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's like we have this feeling of like, man, there's never enough eyes on my work when I post it on social. But at the same time, if you're asked to post something on social, it's like, oh, but now everybody's gonna be looking at my work and critiquing it. That's funny. That just human nature right there.

Trevor Dayley:

social is such a hard thing, man. you know what's interesting? If anyone goes and looks at my Instagram, in fact, you know what I'm gonna, do this right now. I'm gonna say

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay.

Trevor Dayley:

going forward, I'm gonna post one time a bring me back in a year. let's make sure I held myself to this,

Raymond Hatfield:

Okay.

Trevor Dayley:

But I have not posted on my own social media and for the longest time I did recently, you know, a couple family things that I posted up there just'cause like a journal that I could have. I share on Facebook a lot, but it's just my personal, again, it's like a journal, sharing family stuff. I've done such a terrible job posting on Instagram I'm on it every day, but I do it for other people. Like Mag Mod, for example, is a company I work with and I do all their social media for them, but I don't do it for myself. And honestly, it goes back to that whole, like, I don't want to post, like I'm plenty busy. I have, enough weddings right now and I don't want to be compared to other people and I'm not good enough. You know it, it's crazy. Isn't that crazy? After so many weddings, I still feel that way, and I know other people feel that way too. But

Raymond Hatfield:

Really, you think it's, simply that, you are taking the foot off the gas a little bit because you have the weddings booked more so than, the comparison.

Trevor Dayley:

no, it's definitely the comparison. I say it's the weddings

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm sorry. I meant the other way around. Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

yeah. No, say, yeah. Oh, I don't need more weddings. And then that's kinda my excuse. But in reality, it truly is. Like, I still struggle with the comparison aspect of it. I still struggle, like posting, and this is exactly what my post when you read it in the beginning, there. still struggle with that. Like, oh, I posted it, but it only got 40 likes

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm.

Trevor Dayley:

five likes, or, whatever. and you know, the hard part too is being that I've on Instagram every single day and doing, and I run numbers every single week and I'm looking at all this stuff and Instagram, it literally. The metrics and stuff, they keep falling and falling and falling and it, it's so much harder for even newer photographers getting into it trying to get people interested in their work and just posting and then, seeing four or five people like your post, and it's just like, ugh. It's so frustrating.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right. Well then I'm gonna play devil's advocate here, why even bother? Like if it just is a race to the bottom, essentially, why even bother with it?

Trevor Dayley:

The biggest reason why we do it is because it's our chance to actually have a portfolio out there for people to see, right? When clients want to go look at our work and they want to see like, well, first off, they wanna see are you still working? So, so it's like, are you actually still out there doing jobs? Yes, he is. He's out there still doing jobs and wedding coordinators, everyone else, right? reason is because it's our highlight reel. It really is our highlight reel. And that's the interesting thing is oftentimes as photographers, again, we go out on a wedding, we shoot 4,000 photos, we see all the terrible stuff we created, and then we compare ourselves to the highlight reels of everybody else. But that's what social is. It's just a highlight reel. And so it's kind of like, you know, in baseball, fact, you actually talked about baseball, I think not too long ago, where Freddie Freeman, you talked about the

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah,

Trevor Dayley:

and the, the Grand Slam and every, but the interesting thing is how many times, and you mentioned this, how many times are they up to bat? How many pitches are thrown at them? And it's just that one home run, right? That one home

Raymond Hatfield:

that's all that matters.

Trevor Dayley:

yeah, it's a such a small fraction, a sliver of their at bats and their pitches that are thrown at them. that's what social media is. It's literally us putting our best work out there. And then, funny enough. We compare our worst stuff to everyone's best stuff. But that's why, even though it's a race to the bottom, that's why I would still do it right now is because that's how people see that we're working and that's how they can actually see some of our, our photos. Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

So, should we just be looking at social media differently? So instead of trying to get that home run, instead of trying to get that grand slam every single time, simply just creating a place that is a portfolio of our, or is a representation of our images and not worry about anything else.

Trevor Dayley:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I would use social media for two things. So one, it's that it's put our home runs up there, and two, it's to celebrate other people.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Trevor Dayley:

And what I mean by that is. There's a lot of photographers out there that you could look at their work. You could be jealous, you could be frustrated. They got the better hand dealt. They were able to work with a cuter couple or shoot in the amazing destination or whatever it is, right? You could come up with a thousand reasons why they lucked out and you didn't. But we should look at it from the opposite. We should say, how can I celebrate this person? How can I be excited for them? It's amazing how often we frustrate ourselves, but then we, we realize, like if I just celebrate that person and go out and say like, wow, this is incredible, the connection we make with those people that can then lead to business later on. know, it could actually, they could send us a client maybe that, that, they're busy. and they have another referral that came in, and then suddenly they reach out to you and say, Hey, you've been so nice on social and I've loved all the stuff you've said, and you commented and you celebrated my success and so forth. Would you be interested in working with this couple? Same thing with wedding coordinators. You know how many wedding coordinators post photos from their weddings, the decor and everything else, and then nobody comments on it

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Right.

Trevor Dayley:

Like wedding photographers should be, they should be on there, on social commenting on all that stuff, just so they can

Raymond Hatfield:

Hmm.

Trevor Dayley:

celebrate the success of the wedding planners. And surprisingly, that's how a lot of business will come your way as well. So I don't give up on it. Use it to, to show your home runs, right. Use it to show your highlights, and then use it to celebrate the success of others instead of comparing yourself. people up. And I think in the process of doing that, you're gonna be lifted up as well.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's so interesting is that, basically you said use social media, to interact with people. Like, like, deal with them, create a community, make it social. Right.

Trevor Dayley:

Social. Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, what an interesting concept right there. No, I thought it was all about algorithms and just hoping to immediately go viral right away with every photo that we post. But, no, I love that because, we're humans, and we want to connect with others. Not only do we want to connect with others, but we also want others to connect with us. And I think that that second part, we want others to connect with us. is outweighed on social media because it just feels like, well, I did my part, I put out the photo. Now it's time for all the accolades to come into me. But yeah, that's good. the table around and interact with others. That's, I like that.

Trevor Dayley:

and you know, going back to that original post that I made, I think oftentimes those feelings, those self-doubt, the comparison, all that, the hustle, everything we weigh ourselves down with it will all be lifted if we just go and, well, I shouldn't say all. It will be there. A little bit will be there. It won't, it won't go away for good, but I think it will be lightened. actually go out there and, talk to others and celebrate those successes. It's funny how we, oftentimes we'll look at somebody else's photograph, right? And we'll be like, oh, okay. Wow. they did that. I can no longer do that.'cause they already did it, right? Like, I can't, like we almost compare ourselves and we say, oh, they did that pose already. So I don't want to do that because I don't want people to think I copied that. and we shouldn't be thinking that way. We should be thinking like. Wow, that works really, really well. I'm gonna make sure I do that same type of thing at my next shoot. Like we should be actually looking at the successes of people. Not, I'm not saying go out and just copy a bunch of people, but I'm saying look at those successes and if you like that, then do it like that should be how we're using social is like find the type of home runs that you want to hit yourself. I think the best batters in the world, I guarantee it. They studied the batters before them that they looked up to and they studied the way they swung and their, the way they hit. And they studied their routine and what they ate and how they worked out and things like that. And that's what we should use social for is, is look at the best people, study'em, celebrate their successes, and then find out how we can use that to kind of lighten that load for ourselves, you know, so.

Raymond Hatfield:

I wish I would've included that in the baseball episode, because that was a perfect example right there. Yeah. Use those who came before you, as a studying, opportunity. Right. To figure out what made them so great so that you can then do the same instead of what we do with social media, which is just do nothing but compare and say, oh, I'll never, I'll never be that good. but you had mentioned, the hustle there as well, and that was, that was a big part, that I wanna talk about because, I don't wanna name names, but like, ever since really, like Gary V came along and was just like, you gotta hustle all day every day. I mean, that. That was something that I suffered from because I thought if I just work more than everybody else, I'm gonna have more success than everybody else. But really it wasn't, there was kind of a lack of focus, right? the time spent working is not as important as the things that you focus on, I suppose. So, as somebody who has not only built a, successful, wedding photography business, but, I want to know, like from your perspective. What are the things that we should be focusing on so that we do have this balance between working on the things that need to be done, the hustle and the rest element as well?

Trevor Dayley:

Hmm. You know what's interesting? So my wife and I, we just celebrated 25 years of marriage.

Raymond Hatfield:

Congratulations.

Trevor Dayley:

well, thank you. I, about two to three years into the photography, it was probably, probably after that year of doing 52 weddings, quite honestly. am surprised we stayed married. the reason I say that is because I was not present. I was constantly, I would be up till two, three in the morning editing photos and constantly gone. And I would be on Facebook a lot and Facebook groups and just kind of building a brand and letting people know who I am and all this stuff. And I was just work, work, work, work, work. And I remember I get almost. Almost a little emotional thinking about it, but I remember a night where my wife was basically like, I'm done. Like, I don't see you. I don't know who you are. Like, I'm done and I'm gonna move on. And I remember telling her that night, like, Hey, just gimme tonight. Let me figure this out. Let me figure out what I can do. Let. To make this system so I can, I can work a lot faster and be done quicker and so forth. Because again, I was measuring how long I was spending on how successful I was gonna be. Right. I wasn't finding shortcuts. I was trying to say like, oh, if I just spend 20 hours of work on a day, then obviously I'm gonna be successful. And I remember that night, and again, this was back in the days right before we have all the AI and all the crazy amazing stuff that we have nowadays, I remember that night I learned a really successful way of using batch processing in Photoshop. I was able to set up some actions and do all kinds of really cool things that before, for years and years I had tried, but I could never get it to work properly for me. I don't know if you ever had to go through the, the, a horrors of learning batch processing in Photoshop,

Raymond Hatfield:

No.

Trevor Dayley:

night. That night, I figured it out and I was up till three, four in the morning working on it, and I figured it out and I remember thinking, and I remember telling my wife like, I figured out a way that it's gonna cut my time, by half or whatever it was. I don't remember, but I, I remember saying like, I'm gonna be more present. it was a turning point for me in realizing that it's not the amount of time that I spend in my businesses determinant of how successful I'm gonna be. It's really just like, how can I deliver what my clients expect, but maybe do it in the least amount of time possible? and that whole hustle aspect again. I think sometimes, you know, as we're getting started, we think like, oh, I gotta take on every single job. Even if that means I'm shooting three weddings this weekend. I gotta just take'em on. I gotta take'em on.'cause it's me trying to show that I'm being successful. And in reality, we. We tend to just burn ourselves out, or we're working so hard that we make a huge mistake. Maybe we don't back up photos like we should have, and then suddenly we feel so bad that we just wanna leave the industry entirely, right? We don't wanna do weddings anymore because we feel so bad we let somebody down. So I would just encourage everyone, just, Hey, find ways of, making it easier, spending less time, and really, really, really focusing on your family. And I'll, I'll say this and I apologize. I'm talking way too much here, but say that one of the ways it's forced me to spend time with my family is I will volunteer to coach. So I will coach soccer, I will coach wrestling, it makes me connect with my kids and like I have to literally leave my computer. I have to go'cause people are dependent on me to, to coach their kid in soccer. this evening and then on the weekends and so forth. And it has been so rewarding for me. So I would just say find something that is gonna, you know, soccer practices and stuff worked for me because it forced me to be there. I had to show up, right? So I had to find ways of getting my work done so I could be there. Oftentimes when we're working for ourselves, we don't set limits. We don't set hours. We just hustle, hustle, hustle. And so find those things that you like, sign yourself up for, and it forces you to the forcing function, right? It forces you to be there.

Raymond Hatfield:

I know that, you. Are too humbled to admit this, but, if you check out, Trevor's Instagram, his soccer team went undefeated this season. So, it's not that he's just present, but he's like really doing it as well. So he's practicing what he preaches here. okay, so let me ask, I'm gonna push back, or push on this a little more because it sounds easy to just, oh,

Trevor Dayley:

Hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

I'm just gonna make this easier, right? like that advice. Oh, just make everything easier like that. That sounds great, but. for you having, been in weddings for, 20 plus years, having shot 500 weddings,

Trevor Dayley:

Mm-hmm.

Raymond Hatfield:

you have the experience. tell me, tell the listeners if they want to build a successful wedding photography career, what is the one or the two things that they should really focus on to, not only speed up their entire workflow, but if they get this one thing right. Everything else will just seem easier.

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah. first off, all of us want to be perfectionists. we all want to do it

Raymond Hatfield:

It's our art.

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah, totally. Totally. And when we're zoomed in and we're spending extra two or three minutes on a photograph, like making sure every last little eyelash is perfect, like I guarantee it, nobody is gonna notice that stuff. And you have to just let that go. Like you have to know that, hey. You don't need to be a perfectionist. The photographs are good enough. you know, what was interesting for me, there was a time where I was in a Target and my wife was actually, she was shopping, she was doing her thing, and I started looking and I haven't been in a Target in years, but I imagine they're probably still the same way. There was these huge photographs, like big photographs hanging from the ceilings and then there were some that were kind of lower, but you know, anyhow, I started walking up to all these photographs and I probably looked like a weirdo in the target, but as my wife shopping, I was walking up and I was just staring at the photographs and just analyzing'em. Right. And I remember, it's so funny how this sticks with me, but I remember looking at those photographs and going those eyelashes, they're not even in focus. Like, oh man, that eye right there, that's not even in focus. And I remember thinking to myself, I would've tossed that photo out. Like I would, that would've never been a keeper for me. Or I would've tried to fix that somehow. It's crazy how often we look at our own work and we are so critical of ourselves. so that, that would be my, my first thing is I would just tell people, just be nice to yourself. Like, you're an amazing person. You're doing amazing work. You're doing stuff for people. Just be nice to yourself and don't be so overly critical of your work and try to be such a perfectionist. The second part of that question, I might be wrong, in the direction I'm going here, but I, I want to share something that I think if I were telling somebody, Hey, you're starting a new wedding business, how can I grow this business? I mentioned earlier, social media wedding coordinators. can't tell you how many times I've been at weddings. sometimes it's even just assisting somebody else, but how there's like no connection between the photographer and the other vendors, especially the wedding coordinator.

Raymond Hatfield:

Ah.

Trevor Dayley:

is the one that's gonna get you the business. But I always try to have a really good connection. Every time I see'em, I fist bump'em, I give them hugs, I try to really make sure, embrace them as much as I can and let them know who I am. That's how I built my business originally. I remember there was a wedding coordinator, her name was Emily, and Emily's like, Trevor, you're like way different than all the other wedding photographers because you're just so fun to work with and being on time to everything. If they have a, a timeline that, you know, maybe sunsets at seven o'clock and they say, Hey, we need you back by six 50. And you're like, well, but wait sunsets at seven o'clock. Well, unfortunately, you're gonna have to forego sunset. You need to be back at 6:50. You need to follow that timeline. Right? And so I think that's the other thing is just. make sure you're embracing those people. And really, if every wedding I go to, I try to walk away from that wedding thinking, okay, I'm gonna get four more weddings from this wedding, whether it be from the bridal party, from the family, like the parents, or, you know, the wedding coordinator. I'm going to get more weddings from it. And so, yeah, if I were starting out. Those are the two things I'd watch out for that perfectionism and wasting too much time on that kind of stuff. And then, of course, making sure that I, I really connect with the people that I'm working with.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's a great tip'cause once again, it's about being social. It's about building connections with people. so rarely is booking more gigs about how great, the technicals of your photography are. Just like your example there with that photo there Target. that's one of the thing that I think is so hard for new photographers to understand because it's like we're trying to learn this tool to the best of its ability, but

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield:

only matters so much at some point, a photo that might be slightly out of focus or underexposed. But the moment is fantastic is gonna outweigh any photo that is technically perfect, but super boring. That's the art, that's the subjective part of it. but. It sounds like as long as we're making connections with others, well, another Brene Brown quote, right? people don't care what it is that you say, they'll just remember how you made them feel. That is, that is one of the most important things. So, I really appreciate that.

Trevor Dayley:

Well, I was just gonna add one more thing to that. One of the things that I, have really enjoyed, so I think a lot of photographers, especially if they're getting started, they maybe they have to have a side gig. Maybe they have to do some side work as well. I've kind of gone the opposite direction. gotten to the point where I was doing 30, 35 weddings a year, and I've kind of said, you know what? I want more of my weekends. And actually I'm gonna blame my son, the wrestler, because oftentimes they wrestle on the weekends and I, I wanted to be there on his mat. I wanted to coach him, I wanted to travel with him to big tournaments and so forth. And so I started pulling back on weddings and I said, okay, I, instead of doing 30, 35 weddings, I wanna do 10 or 15 weddings'cause I still love doing it. I still want to do it. And I actually, I started working with, with Mag Mod. But what I love about what I do with Mag Mod, Mag Mod is a, for those who don't know, it's a light modifier company. So they do all the modifiers for flashes, soft boxes, and so forth. I know you've talked about'em before but what I love about what my job that I get to do at Mag Mod is I get feature people's work. So, I get to help them grow their community. I get to feature people on Instagram, and it's so fun to actually show other people's work and say, look at this photographer and celebrate their successes. Like, it's literally what I get to do on a daily basis. So, yeah, I would just encourage people, if you're also looking for something that maybe you can do on the side, maybe look at, a way that you can, even if it's not in the industry, maybe if it's something else, but try to find ways where you can, you can kind of push and celebrate people. So.

Raymond Hatfield:

I feel like there's a lot of opportunities for that, that, we just, they're probably right in front of our face and we just, we just don't see'em.'cause

Trevor Dayley:

Right.

Raymond Hatfield:

think it's human nature to be, wrapped up in ourselves, right. To be self-involved, because that's, well, that's how we survived for, so many thousands of years. But, we don't live in the caveman days anymore. Right. Like, we're not being chased by tigers or lions or whatever, like we can take a break and celebrate others. And that is, that is great. So, Trevor again, man, I have a million more questions for you, but I really wanna be mindful of your time. We've technically gone over. So let me wrap this up with one final question here. One of the things that you had mentioned in your post is that, we can convince ourselves that our photos are too weird or too niche, right? And your advice in there is, I guess if we reverse engineer that, that we should be as weird as we are, we should be as niched as we are, right? But that can be hard when we look on social and all of these quote unquote hero shots are getting all the likes and the love. So what is your advice on how to embrace that weirdness, that niche style of photography, rather than slowly conforming into somebody else's style? what advice do you have?

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah. You know, it's interesting, you had mentioned Gary V earlier, and I know you kind of mentioned him, like how he's pushing that hustle, hustle, hustle. Right? which, sometimes maybe is not the best thing for us. I think in some businesses a hundred percent, but maybe, maybe we need to not hustle so much and actually takes some time for ourselves. But, what I do love about Gary, and one thing that he does say that I think is so important is you need to do what you love. And I'm not quoting him exactly here, but basically you need to do what you love, find your niche, and then take that niche and make money doing it.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Trevor Dayley:

so I think so often we say, oh, well, I gotta do it like that person because, they're successful and I gotta copy that. Well, there's probably somebody doing it just like you want to do it. You just haven't seen them or found them yet.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm.

Trevor Dayley:

you're the first, but that's okay. You can be the first too. Right? But the whole point I'm getting at is, is do something that you absolutely love doing and then find ways of making money doing it. Don't do it the opposite. Don't say, okay, I'm gonna go make money and then I'm gonna just change my style and do it however, because this is the way I'm making money. That's not gonna be fun. Like that's gonna be. Yeah, I

Raymond Hatfield:

Hard.

Trevor Dayley:

that. Yeah. Right. I mean, then it feels like work every single time. Whereas if you're doing something that you love and then you find the way to make the money doing it, which is what Gary V talks about all the time, it's like then you're actually gonna enjoy it for the rest of your life. And I think oftentimes we see those people. You know what? You know what's crazy is oftentimes we see people and we think, oh, they're making tons of money. They might not be making tons of money. They might be

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

we don't even realize it. We just immediately say, oh yeah, that person's doing incredible. And they're, you know, they're getting a thousand likes on their photos, so they must be making tons of money. And that, that, that's not necessarily the case. And so, again, do what you love. and I think that whole creativity part of it, it's like you're not gonna enjoy your work if it's not the type of work you like to do.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah, Gary V is, he's a superhuman for sure. there's a lot there. to love, right? love that idea as well. The doing what it is that you love. And I remember from one of his, like first video, or probably wasn't one of his first videos, but he's like, if you love Ninja Turtles, like talk about Ninja Turtles all day long. And I'd,

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

rather be happy talking about Ninja Turtles making$50,000 a year, then hate my life at some corporate job making like$120,000 a year. And I, I totally agree with that. But again, he's a superhuman and can hustle much harder than I can and even want to. But, lots of good stuff there.

Trevor Dayley:

It is crazy. It's crazy how much money people can make doing something and whatever. Initially, they, like I, my daughters, when they were 18, 18 to 19 years old, they actually started a, a little sticker business right.

Raymond Hatfield:

Mm-hmm.

Trevor Dayley:

machines

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah.

Trevor Dayley:

and they, put it up on TikTok and then they were on Etsy and they made more money than I did. in a year selling stickers

Raymond Hatfield:

What.

Trevor Dayley:

on Etsy. Yeah. And I was like, I felt like, I'm like, I need to stop doing what I'm doing and get into the sticker business. and it was incredible. And now unfortunately, they've gone on, they've gone to college and they've gone on other jobs and they're studying and so forth. And so their business is not, they've kind of let it dwindle down. She still does, some stuff on the side. One of'em does, and it's crazy to think like, oh, well, why aren't they still doing it if they're making so much money? But it was just because we go through those chapters, right? Again, that's the hand that was dealt at that time. They played it. Now they're moving on to the next one, and they're not looking at someone else's hand and being jealous and saying, oh, I wish I had those cards. They're just doing what they're doing with what they have at that moment. And at that moment, for them doing stickers was the money that they were making and they were able to put it towards college. And yeah. So it's funny, you can make money doing anything and if it's making crazy, weird photographs that you think only you will like, well do it. And then, you'll find a way to make money doing it one way or another.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. Perfect. Well, Trevor, again, I really wanna be mindful of your time. Before I let you go, I know that there's listeners thinking, I loved everything that Trevor said today. I wanna know more about him. I wanna know more about his work. Where can we find out more about you online?

Trevor Dayley:

Yeah, so, well, I mentioned, I run the Mag mod social media, so that's probably my number one place, magnet mod.com or excuse me, Instagram is Instagram magnet mod. you'll see me up there a lot. I create videos and, that's actually where that post that, the devil posts for the photographers, that's where I put it. And so I would encourage people even go back and find that and, look at some of the comments and see if those resonate with you. I told you, Raymond, I'm gonna start posting every day. So, my personal Instagram is at Trevor Daly. Daley is spelled with two Y's, so T-R-E-V-O-R-D-A-Y-L-E-Y. And then of course, my website and everything else is the same too, trevor daly.com.

Raymond Hatfield:

All right, today's action item, meaning if you implement just one thing into your photography today, that will move the needle forward. Let it be this, give a genuine compliment to three photographers. Think about it like. Photographers have been looking at the works of other photographers for more than a century, you know? But with the rise of social media, the amount of images that we look at every single day has become unreal. And because the algorithm favors posts that get attention, that means that we see a lot of really, really good photos every single day. And when it looks like our feed is just full of everyone else who's creating fantastic work. We now see the images of others more as confirmation of just how large the technical gap is. And in the past we would look at the works of others for inspiration and for education. We can still do that though. So today, rather than scrolling past photos, I want you to comment a genuine compliment on at least three photos. Then well just notice how it feels. Do you feel better when you scroll past three fantastic photos, or do you feel better when you tell the photographer how great that photo is? And if you feel better when you leave that comment on another photographer's work, why stop there? Find three more compliments to leave. Rewire the brain for inspiration rather than comparison. That's it for today. Until next time, remember, the more that you shoot today, the better of a photographer you'll be tomorrow.