Body Image, Diet Culture, Worthiness and Money with Zoe Potter

I'm so excited to introduce you to the first guest of the show, Zoe Potter! Zoe is an incredible Mom and content creator whose social media career has gained a lot of traction from her TikTok series “what I eat in a day as a fat woman who’s not on a diet”.  We sat down to talk about managing finances as a mom, learning about money with a partner, navigating the world as a fat woman, working in a male dominated field, how the beauty standard impacts your money, the importance of spending money on yourself and more!

You will walk away with tips on how to:
- talk about finances with your partners
- deal with the transition from corporate job to stay at home mom
- begin to learn about money as an adult
- relearn how to spend on yourself without having to "earn it"
& and literally so much more!

FOLLOW + SUPPORT ZOE:
IG: https://instagram.com/lovezoepotter
TIKTOK: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZML5DgvVc/
YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/channel/UC7HYniHTT0Xq7133v9ByH7g

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Transcript

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Hi and welcome back to this week's episode of Keep Finance Queerd, a podcast that's putting the personal back in personal finance through complex and nuanced guest interviews and solo episodes. I'm your host Ellyce Fulmore and today I am so excited to introduce our first guest on the podcast, Zoe Potter. Zoe Potter is an incredible mom and content creator whose social media career has gained a lot of traction from her TikTok series "What I Eat in a Day as a Fat Woman who's not on a Diet". With toxic diet culture running rampant these days, anti diet culture is so important and Zoe brings that to her content. Zoe keeps her content so authentic and genuine that you truly just feel like you're interacting with a close friend. She is so open and honest about her own journey to loving her body and shares both the good days and the bad days with her audience. She also has a mum of two and balancing being a stay at home mom while growing her career as an influencer and content creator. I discovered Zoe on Tik Tok and immediately loved her account. I am just such a fan of women who embrace their vulnerability online and I knew I had to interview Zoe for the podcast. And seriously, you are all going to love this episode so much. I am so excited for it. We chat about so many things in this interview from managing finances as a mom, learning about money with a partner, navigating the world as a fat woman working in a maledominated field, how the beauty standard impacts your money, the importance of spending money on yourself, and more. Zoe keeps the conversation honest and real, which I know is going to resonate a lot with so many of you. So without further Ado, let's get into the interview with the incredible Zoe Potter. Hi there. Hi, I'm Sydney. My name is Rebecca. I'm an autistic kid woman. I'm Jane. I'm a first generation Latina. I am a single mom and a survivor of domestic abuse. I am an ADHD plus size millennial on the autism spectrum and Add creating other problems in itself. Even though I bring in decent money, I struggle with staying ahead of everything. I am now struggling to pay off my debt. My traumatic brain injury means that it's hard for me to concentrate long enough to sort out my finances. The hardest time managing my finances. my parents were never able to teach me. I love my Starbucks habit and I'm not giving it up. Hi Zoe, thank you so much for being here. I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. I'm so excited to be here. I actually discovered you first on Ticktock and I just love your content on there so much and have been obsessed. So for those listeners who are unfamiliar with you, would you be able to tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do. Sure. So I'm located in Ontario, Canada. I'm a plus size mom of two, and I pretty much just create content online to bring awareness to self love, body neutrality, body positivity, and most importantly, anti dieting. And that's pretty much what I focus on with my content on TikTok and on Instagram. Yeah. Amazing. I think your content is just so needed and diet culture is just so crazy right now. I feel like it's the same as, like, the weird crypto MLM schemes that are happening too. I'm just like it's just rampant online, literally. And they literally tie in too. That's the crazy thing. Yes, so much. Yes. And I'm excited to dive into that conversation because we will. I can imagine you could literally talk hours about MLMs and diet culture and all of that. Yeah. We could have like five episodes. Okay. So I love starting out with this question. How has your identity or the major pieces of your identity impacted your relationship with money? I definitely think that for every season in my life, I've had like almost a change in identity. Starting off younger in my teens, going into early adulthood, going into early Parenthood, early married life, into early Parenthood. And I feel like each kind of season my identity kind of shifted a little bit. Granted, where I'm at now, I think that that's the most impactful season that I've been in for my identity. And I think I've really actually come to terms with who I am as a person, which has taken me pretty much my entire life, my entire adult life. And I think that now that I'm older and I don't want to be like that person that's older and wiser, but it's true. Like, the older it's. Yeah. You become way more aware of things. And especially being a parent, I think that those things have really impacted the way that I view money and saving and not just as a financial aspect, but also for looking past that. So not just to keep a house over your head, food on the table thing like that, but also looking down the road, like, for my kids, what are they going to want to do? Are they going to want post secondary? Are they going to want to travel? Are they going to want to do all those things? Whereas when I was younger, I didn't really have the opportunity to do that very often because I didn't come from much money at all. So I think that being able to have that knowledge of savings and whatnot not only will help myself and my family and my children out in the road, but also I'm hoping to be able to teach that to my children because I wasn't taught that. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, that's just such a huge thing that I can't relate to, like being a parent and something that obviously has a huge financial impact. And I can't imagine how many things change in the way that you view things change. It's such a new season of life. I feel like where every single thing, every decision you make has to be reevaluated and taking other people into account other than just like, really? Yeah. I do have days where I'm like, damn it, I do have kids. I have to think about that. But then 90% of the time, I'm really grateful that I'm not like the type of person who needs things, if that makes sense. I don't feel the need to have luxurious things I've never purchased, like incredibly expensive purses or like clothing or our cars aren't luxury cars. I don't own luxury furniture. So I think that transition from being like a dual income family, just paying for yourself and then whatever you need to having children, it wasn't that big of an adjustment. I didn't feel like I needed to cut down on spending and stuff like that because I never really have been a spender. So apart from the odd takeout meal, going out for dinner, vacations, stuff like that, which I'm sure is like a very different experience than a lot of people becoming parents. It's like a huge financial change. So that's interesting that for you, just like, was that more natural of a transition? How do you feel then being a mom impacts your relationship with money or, like, prioritizing your finances? What decisions have changed since you've become a mom? Definitely. Things like travel. I know that we don't travel much at all. That's probably the biggest impact I've noticed, because it is very expensive also with the pandemic, that's made a really big impact on that as well. But yeah, just like little things like prioritizing spending. A big thing for me, too, was determining whether or not going back to work was logical at the time when I was off that leave, because you have to think about spending that extra income going towards daycare, which is incredibly expensive. So that I mean, even that was a huge impact on our family because it's really coming down to is it worth it to go work full time, be away from your children, and barely bring in any extra income because 90% of your income is going to pay for your child to be away when you're working, right. Things like that, things you don't really think about that much as such a transition is. Yes, you do have to find care. You do have to do this. You do have to do that. So obviously, there's the diaper, the food, things like that add up. But the biggest transition for sure was that impact on my work life, which was a hard decision. So right now, are you balancing content creation and being a stay at home mom? Yeah, essentially I'm a stay at home mom, and I only just started doing content creation for work, not just pleasure, probably. I started in the fall, the beginning of this year, it picked up a lot more, and I'm a lot busier, which I'm very thankful for. But I'm only just now starting to feel a little burnt out because the kids come first. Right. So I'm constantly, like, trying to squeeze in during nap time or during bedtime just to kind of fill the void. And it's hard. So now we're just thinking of putting my youngest into part time day care, just home daycare, just to kind of get him accustomed to other kids. But then also I have more time to focus on work where I'm not juggling ten things at once. Yeah, I can imagine even trying to manage my house is like a full time job, throw children in the mix. I don't even I don't feel like it 90% of the time. I feel like I'm running around and I'm just like, should I be writing down things I forget 90% of the time? Things that are going on, like our questions, like the questions you send me. I started doing them. I got half done. I got distracted. Thank goodness you sent me an email to remind me. Okay, right? No, actually, I can't remember that. Okay, so what advice would you give someone who is kind of struggling with that decision of do I go back to work or do I stay at home and save money on daycare? Ultimately, how did you make that decision in the end? I think that for me, I wanted to be able to try it at least. I'm very much the type of person that I need to give something a try if I'm considering it even in the slightest. So I'll try it, and then if it doesn't work out, I'm very okay with acknowledging the fact that something didn't work out and changing that's something I've always been pretty good at. So when we had my daughter, who's now in school, I decided to go back to work full time, and we put her into daycare. It was working perfectly. We did that routine for just over a year, actually, before I quit. I was like, goodbye, and I decided to stay at home, and that was a huge transition, and I gave it a try. I gave it a College try, and I put my effort into it. I really loved working full time. Things changed at my work, which definitely helped persuade my decision to quit and go back home. I think that if that wouldn't have changed, I'd probably still be working there. So, I mean, everything happens for a reason, but I think the best, the best advice I would give is that if you're considering something and it's not going to do any harm in trying it, try it because you never know what could come from it. So how was that transition going from full time work to being at home? Did you feel like an aspect of your identity was taken away of not being to express that side of yourself of showing up at work versus, like, I know for me, just even transitioning to working from home completely, and not even I used to work at coffee shops a lot, and I don't do that anymore. It is very isolating, and it feels like almost a part of you isn't seen on a daily basis. How was that transition for you? Did you feel that there was some loss there? Not at first. No, not at first. So basically what I did was I transitioned by quitting my fulltime job, working from home full time, but then also, sorry, parenting full time at home. But then also I've always been the type of person that I get. Itchy like, I just get like I can't not be doing something. So even when I was on Matt leave, four months into mat leave, I had to do something. So I took a course and I learned how to do eyelash extensions and, like, beauty treatments in that sense. And I started doing them on friends and family and stuff like that. And then after I ended up putting my full time job, I opened up a home salon out of my house, and I worked part time doing that while parenting. So I think that the transition wasn't as isolating for me because I still got to interact with clients and stuff like that on a weekly basis. I got to see, like, three ish clients a week in the evenings when my husband was home. And I think that made things a lot easier for me because I didn't just go from having this full time interaction with humans on a day to day basis, but at home with my daughter, I had that kind of, like, buffer. Yeah. But then coveted after that, and then that was like that was full isolation. I was pregnant with my son at the time, and, yeah, that was probably the biggest eye opener for me. And I definitely went a little stir crazy. Yeah. I'm sure we're all feeling that, but it would be something that you're able to do if you have the ability to do that, if you have a partner that can also support you in that. I think that's a great piece of advice, too, of, like, trying to still, if that's something that's important to you, fill in a little bit of that interaction with other people doing even like, an online class or something that you can kind of do while you're at home, even an hour long kind of Zoom call where you can get together with other people and interact, I think. Yeah, it's just a great tip for maintaining that individual part of your identity, because I can imagine I'm not a mom, but I can imagine that it's easy to put everything into your children and, like, kind of literally use that part of yourself. So I love that. And I think that's a great piece of advice for some of the moms listening or soon. Definitely. Yeah. And I know that it does definitely come down to having a really supportive partner, like you said, and making sure that you have that support at home. But yeah, try not to lose yourself, because it's really easy to do that and to put all your focus and time and energy into your children, which I know some people would argue saying that's the whole point of parenting. That's the whole point of motherhood. But it's not like you still you can't pour from an empty cap 100%. Yeah. And I think it's so important that children get to see their parents as, like, individual people that also have interest, values and things like that. And that that's something that is so important for children to learn. And I know you mentioned that you are really passionate about teaching your children about money. And I'm curious what conversations around money looked like in your home growing up and when you were a child, we didn't talk much about money apart from the standard allowance, getting little amounts of money for chores, getting gifts of money, things like that. I didn't really learn much about savings or bank accounts or anything like that until I was much older. I had no concept of credit whatsoever. Even in my teen years, I had no concept of credit. My mom didn't get her first credit card until she was in her forties. And my dad and my mom split up when I was younger. So I definitely had a relationship with my dad, but I didn't live with him, and I didn't see him frequently enough that he could teach me those kind of things as well. So I think that that was really hard, trying to figure out just how to do it, how to manage money, and how to figure it out. So I had no concept of it. Actually, my biggest memory of my dad around money is he used to tell me that every time I would get allowance or things like that, I couldn't say that I had to spend it. He's like, oh, all the money you get, it's just burning a hole in your pocket. You got to spend it the second you get it. But he never really taught me how not to do that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I get when you're little and you want something, it's exciting, and then you get to save up for by doing chores and then spending it. But it's just funny that all of those jokes. And I never really learned that. I grew up with a financially literate background, and I did not like my parents never talked about money. It was a very taboo subject around our house. We never had discussions about it. And for me, it was like the guilt and shame that was the hardest part for me because my parents didn't talk about money. So then when I found myself in a lot of debt, I just felt so embarrassed and shameful about it. And my parents are like people that I can usually come to with anything that I'm struggling with. And I felt like I really couldn't come to them with this because I was like, I don't even know how to start this conversation. You're very much not alone in having that experience growing up. And I mean, like, your mom getting a credit card in her 40s. That's something that she was still learning how to use a credit card. How do you even teach your children about something that you're not familiar with? So it's definitely, like, a hard thing to navigate. And it's really surprising how much we soak up as children. Like, most of those money mindset blocks or things that we believe about money all come from ages four to seven just got drilled in. And children just are like little sponges that remember everything they really are. It's true. Yeah. So what has it been like, learning financial literacy as an adult? Hard? It's been hard. I feel like I've gone through different stages on learning about money and whatnot. And of course, having different jobs, I think has definitely been helpful in learning and navigating income and how they work and whatnot. Yeah, it's definitely been interesting. And I think that with each, like, Avenue I take because I've had a few different careers, I guess you would say it's just interesting how the different ways money can come in, essentially, and where different ways you can save and different ways you can invest and stuff like that. So I think it's just interesting and I appreciate it now that I'm a bit older. Yeah. What has been the way that you've learned? Like, is it just been through your own experience or, like, is there places that you go to learn about personal finance 100%? For my own experience, basically we have a bank, and that's essentially who we do any investments through. I just downloaded wealth simple. Not too long ago. I'm learning about stocks. I'm learning about that. I haven't done anything yet. I'm still learning. Awesome. I love wealthy. Yeah. My brother in law just got into it about six months ago, and he's so excited. So he talks about it all the time. So both my husband and I downloaded it, and we play around with it, and I think he's invested some money. I haven't done anything yet because I'm very much, like, safe when it comes to money and stuff like that. So it scares me doing that kind of stuff. But at the same time, I know that that's part of learning and experience totally. And I think, yeah, going at whatever pace that you're comfortable with, it doesn't have to. I feel like there is this outside pressure of, like, everyone's, like, you hate his best right now. It's so true. Literally, it's like, you missed this. Did you see what happened when this happened, and it's like, you got to do it now. It's like, but I'm not ready. I'm still trying to figure it out. Yeah. And feeling like you're being, I don't know, peer pressured into any decision, it's not going to end up good. And there's so many different ways to invest that don't have to be like those quick, fast that people are talking about. And yeah, I'm really glad that you're just, like, doing it at your own pace, like learning, and you'll get into it when you're comfortable and when you feel like you're ready. And I think that's awesome. You mentioned that your partner has kind of been learning with you. So what has that experience been like trying to learn about finances together as a couple? It's been good. I've definitely had a good experience with it. I think he's a little more knowledgeable with that aspect than I am, just based on his upbringing. His parents have always been very, like, investment savings, this that credit. And he's had a credit card since he was able so like 17 years old, they bought him a credit card, and they taught him how to use it and stuff like that. So I think I partially learned from him. I think a big part of that was learning through him and, like, how it works and stuff like that, because we've been together for such a long time. So I think that that's been very helpful. And yes, it's been interesting, and I think that we have a very good grasp on income and money together. Like, we've never been like, I know that some people are very like, we have our separate finances, we have our joint finances, we have this budget, we have this budget, we have this. And I think that between the two of us, we've never been ashamed about talking about money. We've been together for so long that we've had the months where we were barely getting by. We've had the months where we were late on rent. We've experienced all that together. So I think that made it so much easier and more comfortable for the both of us to be able to talk about finances and budgeting and saving and investing and stuff. Yeah, that's amazing. I'm so happy to hear that. It's such a hard thing with couples, and I see a lot of working with clients is like having those conversations about money can be so uncomfortable and hard. And it's great to know that you feel like you are in that place where you can have those conversations openly, and it just makes such a difference over time, which I'm sure you've experienced how different it feels to be able to have those conversations in a healthy, safe way where you both are listening to each other, and then you can make those decisions together in a United way. Yes. No, it's true, especially when you come from not talking about money at all to being able to openly talk about it. It's kind of relaxing and it's a breath of fresh air. Yeah. Okay. So one last question on this, and then I'm going to kind of switch gears a bit. What advice would you give to couples who are wanting to talk about money more and make it more of like a combined process, but maybe came from a background similar to you where they didn't learn about money? How do you start that first conversation? What advice would you give to kind of open up that conversation with their partner? I'd honestly start by asking your partner what are their thoughts about investing or saving or budgeting. Start by seeing what their thoughts are on it so you can kind of see where they're at, because I know that it's such a it's also something you don't want to pressure someone else into because it is such a taboo subject in a lot of the case. And it shouldn't be. But I know that it can be and it can be anxiety inducing and whatnot for some people? Yeah. I think that it's important to just be able to see where they're at and try to just talk about it lightly as best you can. And if you can bring a professional I know that sounds horrible, but like what you do like a coach or you can even bring in a professional at your bank or I think that having that third party to kind of just help as well navigate the waters and just try I think that would be beneficial as well, because I know a lot of our initial conversations, big conversations about money started when we were renting a home, looking to get a mortgage, things like that. I think that's what opened the doors and what had us conversing is we were so open with the stranger in front of us about our finances and things like that. Why can't we be more open about just talking about it together on a Tuesday night? Right. Yeah. And yeah, sometimes it really just depends on what type of people you are. But I think that's great advice of the third party person, because you're right. Sometimes just having someone facilitating that conversation makes it feel less like it feels more in control because that person is asking the question. So you just have to ask questions. You don't have to direct the conversation or worry that it might go in a certain way. And I think that can be really helpful. And I also like your tip about asking them where they're at. And I think I'll also add that you could also do the opposite if your partner is not at a point where they're willing to talk about it. You can also start by talking about where you're at and if you feel comfortable talking about it, and then you're kind of like inviting them to do the same. The more that you talk about how you feel about investing, and then you can open up that conversation to then see what they think. Yeah. Just starting the conversation in any way is beneficial. Like you said, those big life decisions will also prompt a lot of those other deeper conversations to be had. So amazing. Great advice. Okay. So I wanted to switch to another aspect of your identity that you shared very openly online, and that's your experience navigating through life as a fat woman. And you are able to now speak so openly about your experience and be a role model for so many other women. And I know that you've probably done a lot of personal work to get to that place where you're comfortable, like, talking openly online, and you're still so transparent about the time that you do struggle. I know you just posted, like, the other day that you were just having, like, not a great body image day, and I think that I love that. I think it's so important in the online space because it just gives others permission to also be authentic and vulnerable and feel seen in their own journeys of, like, just because I talk about this thing online doesn't mean that I feel great about my body all the time. I appreciate your content on that so much, and I want to just kind of dive into that a little bit. So can you tell us a little bit more about how being plus size or identifying as a fat woman has impacted the way that you experience the world? It's definitely made me a little bit more aware about how stigmatized it is to exist in a fat body and how things are just not made for plus size that individuals, especially around money. Like, I know that there have been so many opportunities that I've missed out on or work promotions or things like that that had to do with the fact that I was a female, first of all, and secondly, that I was a larger bodied individual as well, which is incredibly frustrating. It's hard not to be bitter about existing in the world, unfortunately, but I think that I've been through my entire life. I've had little blips of weight loss and things like that throughout my adult and teenage years, but the majority of the time I've existed in a larger body. So I feel like you kind of just view the world a little differently, and you kind of experience things a little bit differently, too, which can be a little bit defeating at times. But now that I've come to terms with who I am and who I want to be, I think it's become for me a little liberating, and it's exciting to be able to find others who have the same mindset and to be able to help others reach that mindset, too. Yeah, it's amazing. So you mentioned that you felt like there was a difference in opportunities and you had a lack of opportunity in the jobs that you've had. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that looked like and how that lack of opportunity has impacted you? Yeah. So I went to school in Toronto for acting. That's essentially what I went to post secondary for. I've always been interested in acting, creating the theater. I went to school specifically for acting, for film and television. It was a really small program. It was a really good program, too. All of the teachers and instructors, they were all very well known Canadian actors, producers, directors. And I loved it. And I felt like that was my calling and what I was supposed to be doing. And then I had a really sharp reality check when it was time to get together, like our demo reels and start auditioning for talent agencies. Once school was wrapping up, all of the instructors and teachers that were well known actors, they had their own agencies. They were still acting. They were full time actors. So they would give their referrals out to their agencies, to the kids in the program. I say kids, adults, adults in the program. And I think that it was just very disappointing because I was doing the same thing as my friends and whatnot that I've been in this program with for two years straight, and we were auditioning and we were going to all the same agencies, and we were having all these experiences together. And I had my teachers pull me aside and say, like, you're fantastic. You're so good at this. You have such raw talent. I just felt like what I was being told and what I thought was the case when I got out into the real world, it was just very much not the case at all. Basically, at the agencies that I applied to, there was a roster of actors on their agency. However, in a plus size body, they only had one person on their roster. They had a woman, and they had a male. And that's just essentially it. So the amount of time that I went to audition at different agencies and stuff like that where I just heard, I'm sorry, we already have someone on our roster, like you and I would go to their website, and they would have one fat woman around my age and plenty of other thin, plenty. And all of my other friends in my program, they all got agents, they all got roles. They all got like, I can literally tell you I was watching what's that show, the one with the superheroes that it's like, oh, I don't know. It's on Amazon Prime. It was like, really a good show anyways. Yeah. And one of my friends from school popped up, so I texted them, hey, I just saw you on the whatchama? College show? He's like, oh, yeah, thanks. They're all out there acting, doing fantastic things, and I never got that opportunity because I was fat. I definitely considered I'm like, how do I lose all this weight? How do I get to that point where I can be considered and be able to do what I want to do? And I just never got there? Obviously, I know these things go on, and I feel like I can relate in the sense of being neurodivergent. A lot of times I feel like the world isn't designed for me, and a lot of things just don't cater to the way that my brain works. And I can imagine that's a similar feeling of, like, the world isn't catering to my body. And that's just like it's so awful to hear that real life experience of you being denied an opportunity because you're not in the thin body. That society's beauty standards. They are like the epitome of beauty. And it's just I just can't even I'm honestly like a loss right now because that would just be such a heartbreaking experience to go through of like, you obviously have talent. You obviously are very good at what you do. And the fact that it's your body size that is holding you back from these opportunities is just awful. And it's ridiculous that this is still a thing that is present in society. It's come a long way. I'll give it that I'm seeing my body type and similar body types to mine being represented on television and shows so much more than it was ten plus years ago when I was in school and I graduated. So I'm thankful that we're moving in the right direction. I just feel like we're moving at a snail's pace, way too slow. Everything needs to pick up that experience that ultimately led you to switch career path, correct? Yes. So that's essentially I mean, I did do some background acting, stuff like that for a while while I was working after school and stuff like that, but I never pursued it full time because I couldn't I couldn't go through that heartbreak of trying and trying and trying. And it's not even like I tried for a little bit and gave up. I tried for over a year trying to find an agency that would accept me from my body type. I even tried specifically going into voice acting just because I was like, I can hide. I can be behind a mic and they didn't want you unless you had that on screen presence started. Right. So then that changed my career path really quickly. It was disheartening that I got into retail management, which I loved, and I did that for a while. And then it led me to my career that I spent the majority of my adulthood doing, and that was working in a car dealership doing business development and customer care. And I did that for five, six years, I think. And I mean, working in a car dealership, you get a whole other I have questions right now, because I feel like from my perspective, navigating the world car dealerships are probably one of the places I experience, like, the most misogyny. So much misogyny. And what was that like, navigating as a woman hard. I mean, yeah, it was really hard. My husband used to always say to me, he's like, what are you doing? He's like, So basically, my job at the dealership was to generate business. So essentially what I wanted to do was to create appointments and sales for the sales team. That was essentially my job. So my job was to navigate. Like, say, for instance, you go to auto trader and you're looking at a used high end eye or something, and you sent an email or you give a call. I'm the person you talk to. And I did that for so long. And essentially what I would do is I would generate all of this business and all these clientele, and then I would do, like, the work, and then I would just give it away to all the men to sell the cars. And that's essentially what I did for how many years. And I got a very small fraction of what they were generally making. So, yeah, it was hard. It's funny because I had a really good time when I was doing it, but I was also very naive, and I think that was a big part of it. Every time we met when we were buying a house and things like that, we would talk to our investment people and mortgage brokers and stuff like that. And I'd always get the same comment whenever I told them what I do. And they're like, why are you selling the cars? And I'm like, well, great question. They're like, because, you know that they make so much more than you. And I'm like, I know, but I just didn't know. Like, I just didn't know how much more I did. I did want to get into car sales, and they didn't want to lose me because I was doing such a good job doing what I was doing that they refused to let me do that. And then the most successful car sales people were attractive, young. That's just what it was. And mostly men and the women who were successful were thin and pretty. I know that sounds horrible, but that is, unfortunately, the way it works in that field. And I just didn't fit into what they were looking for. So I didn't get to progress, which was important. Yeah. And that's like part of the importance of talking about money, too, is that you can start to bridge that unawareness in the workplace as well. Like you mentioned, you weren't aware of how much more they were making. It's like having these conversations be less taboo. It's like there should be transparency between salaries or what people are making in Commission. They should. And that might have changed. That could change your experience. Like, Navigating, the workforce of like, you know that you're doing all the work for this man to make more money than you is true. Ridiculous. I was very grateful for the opportunity. I think at the time that I didn't question it. I didn't question why I was making this much money. I didn't question why I never got a raise. I was just so grateful for every opportunity that I had that I never questioned it, if that makes any sense. It does. Yeah. And we both said how we didn't talk about money growing up. And so it's like if you never had a conversation. I never even had a conversation about how much my parents ever made until literally this year. Yeah. So how am I supposed to go into a job interview and negotiate a salary I know you're worth? Because I have no idea even what when I first entered the workforce, I had no idea what anyone was making in any career path Besides what I could Google of what does a doctor make? Or like, exactly? You don't actually know what people are making. And so it really takes away a lot of your power in that situation because you're just like and as women, I feel like we're also told that, especially if we're being allowed to work in mail. I have air quotations for the audio. No, it's true. Working in male dominated fields that we should be thankful and grateful instead of being like, well, I should be getting the paid the same because I'm doing the same work. Yeah. That's a really hard thing to navigate. And it sounds like a lot of your career has been trying to navigate these, like, really hard spaces, even the acting industry. I feel like there's obviously a lot of actresses, but then I feel like a lot of males are the ones who are behind the scenes, like owning all these agencies and companies 100%. It's literally like almost every. Well, yeah. Unfortunately, every single industry that I've been in has been male dominated. And I hate that so much. But you're right. Unfortunately, the reality and I know things again are changing, but really slowly, I feel like when it was time for me to start my own business, when I did my home salon, even then I undervalued myself because I just didn't feel like I didn't know my work. Like, you literally don't. And when I started doing content creation in the fall, I got a manager who runs a talent agency and I remember having a conversation with a friend of mine who was on his roster and still is on his roster. And we met through TikTok and we've formed a really great friendship. And I remember I was negotiating with a brand at the time and I said, hey, do you happen to know what I should be asking for for compensation? Because I have no idea. And she told me a number and I was like, are you insane. When she told me the number, I'm like, Are you absolutely insane? I'm like, I would do this probably for free because I don't know how to say no. And you're telling me to ask for this much? Yeah. What do you think? No. You need to know your worth. Yeah. So then I ended up signing with the agent agent that I'm with now and my manager now. And even to this day, when I get brand collapsed, I'm still like, are you sure this is the correct amount of money that I should be getting? Are you sure? Yeah. You don't understand that's average. And I don't think that that's right. So it's still like a learning curve, and it's such a weird concept, having to know your worth and to be able to put a number and price for yourself. It is. And I felt the same way getting into brand deals. I still felt like I don't really know what to ask at the beginning, and it's like I knew what to at that point, I felt comfortable pricing my own programs and my coaching, and I was, like, feeling more confident in that. But then it was like a whole new thing where I'm like, now suddenly I have to say it to this big brand, and I'm like, it's such a hard thing to navigate. And it's again, a subject that isn't talked about very much. Like the transparency between content creators online is like there's no industry standard. So it's so hard to know what to even ask for, how to even navigate. You have no knowledge going in most of the time. You have no knowledge going into it about the industry and what to expect. And it's so different, too, because there are million dollar brands who expect you to essentially work for free product. And then there's startup brands that are willing to compensate you amazingly for your work and time on their project. So it's hard to find that balance about what you're expected to do and what's right and what's wrong. Yeah. Okay. So one of my favorite things about your content is just how much you show up authentically yourself. And I love what I eat in a day as a fat woman who's not in the diet videos because we already kind of touched on this. But toxic diet culture is just so rampant these days, and I just love that kind of like, fight back. But I think we should dive into this conversation because I know it's so important, and we even touched on how much finances and diet culture are intertwined. So how has diet culture and society's beauty standards influence how you've spent or continue to spend your money? Oh, my God. Yeah, great question. That's where most of my money went. My early 20s was to trying to make myself fit into a mold, whether it be with diet programs, diet food, diet pills. And then on top of that, trying to dress myself in a certain way to be able to fit the beauty standard. So then buying certain products, footwear, clothing, doing my hair a certain way, the amount of times I've been blond in my life, it's just embarrassing. It's not saying you should be embarrassed if you're blonde, but I should not be blond. I have very dark hair naturally, and I did it so many times, and it costs so much money. And I think that I just was trying to fit into, like, a mold that society wanted me to be in. And then, of course, working in these male dominated industries and going to school for acting and stuff, it's like, this is what we want. How are you going to make yourself be that? So, yeah. Like, I think that a lot of people don't realize that the diet culture and the diet industry, that is an industry. It is a billion dollar industry. And the more that you diet, the more that you focus on the hottest, latest plan and how to lose weight and this and that. You're just feeding into it, and that's what they want you to do. And the problem is that they're designed to not work. So it's designed to fail. You're designed to gain your weight back. You're designed to lose a bunch of weight and then not be happy with yourself or have to switch over to something else because you're malnourished. Unfortunately, the industry of it is how to get you to spend your money to wanting to be something that you can't be. Essentially, it's unachievable. And, like, if the one diet doesn't work, you just are supposed to spend money on the next one. It's 100%. Yeah. So what would you say were the biggest areas that you spent your money on in, like, trying to look a certain way. Gym membership definitely were a big part of it. Spending lots of money on supplements, protein shakes. I did keto for the longest time, spending all my money on keto food. Like, the amount of money that these people would have you spend. Like, I would have to buy a special bottle of ketchup because normal ketchup wasn't good enough. It was too high in carbs. Oh, my gosh. I would buy a $7 bottle of ketchup. My barbecue sauce that I used for cooking was like $10 a bottle. Like, things like that that you don't really think about, if that makes sense. Yeah, they just suck you in. They suck you in. And, like, the protein shakes, the protein shakers, the protein supplements. Oh, my God. The supplements that I would literally have to take daily so that I wouldn't die. It was the reality of it. Yeah. It's crazy to think about it. It's such a disgusting industry that they're preying on these aspects that you just don't like about yourself and you're feeling that. I'm sure everyone listening can relate to having felt that moment of hating yourself in the way that you look. And it's like you're willing to pay money that way. Yeah. You'll pay anything so they can charge outrageous fees. Can you give us an idea of maybe what an average kind of, like, diet plan would cost, like a month or something like that? So I wasn't following a diet plan or anything like that. But for instance, just doing keto, I would spend I would take probably six to seven different pills a day. Wow. And that wasn't including things like protein shakes, stuff like that. So I was taking, like, there's this company, like this special company that focuses on keto. So like, keto burn, keto Thrive, keto. Nourished. And it's all supplements dedicated for keto. And they're like, I think it was like $30 a bottle. And I'm pretty sure one of those bottles would last me like half a month. And to put it into perspective, I was taking six supplements a day, plus my vitamins and stuff like that. So probably easily a few hundred dollars in just supplements to be able to. And the funny thing is, the funny thing is I was spending all this money on these supplements, like potassium, but I wouldn't eat a banana. It had too many carbs. The irony of it all normal food. You have to, like consumer nutrients in the Omega. Make sure you get your Omega in or you won't ship for a week, 100%. That was the case. It was horrible. Okay, so we talked about obviously all the horrible things about diet culture. So how is your spending change now that you've learned how to love yourself and feel comfortable and confident in your body? How has that influenced how you spend your money? It's definitely changed on. What I spend my money on has definitely changed in the sense of, like, I don't buy obviously I'm not buying a bunch of diet supplements. I'm not buying into, like, the new Craziest diet ads. I don't have a gym membership anymore. But now I'm like, I'm buying more clothes and I need to stop. First of all, I'm fully aware that I have a bit of a shopping problem. But I think it's because I went my whole life with literally not buying clothes and not and I'm not saying, like, I didn't buy clothes. Obviously I shopped and stuff like that. But like, for instance, I wouldn't buy new clothes hardly ever because I didn't feel like I deserved it because I was a certain weight and I would always give it to myself. Like, oh, if you get to a certain goal weight, then you can go and treat yourself to a brand new pair of jeans or like a brand new shirt or brand new dress. So now that I am finally in my body and loving my body for what it is, I'm like, let's dress it up. Just buying them and just stop. And I should stop. It's just about finding that middle ground because I think that what you said is really important. It's like you should celebrate by buying clothes that make you feel amazing. And that also represent that transition of I'm not punishing myself of not allowing myself to buy these nice things for myself unless I lose weight. I'm like, I love how I look and let's celebrate that and buy these clothes. I look great. And I think that that's important. But I totally understand that you went from one extreme to the other of, like, never buying now that you're not, like, punishing yourself that way anymore. It's like you restricted yourself for so long that now you're like, I want to do this. So it's completely literal, normal and understandable that you would kind of go to that point. It's kind of like having no spend months like those I feel like, are just never helpful because you're restricting yourself, go on a shopping spree, go crazy the next month, 100%. And I know that for me, and I say that very like, it's funny because I'm like, oh, I'm spending so much money on clothes and I'm buying so much clothes, and I'm fully aware that I'm not actually spending. Like, I don't have a shopping problem and I don't compared to it. But for me, it feels like it because I went from nothing to buy and clothes every couple of months. That's not extreme. But for me it's extreme. I feel like it's a lot. My husband's even like, did you get another package? You just got one, like a couple of weeks ago. What did you get? I'm like, oh, absolutely. Yeah, definitely not a problem. But in my head it feels like a lot because I went from nothing to owning the same pair of jeans and wearing the same shirt for seven years to that point. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up, because I think that's what it really comes down to is, like looking at your money and your budget. Is it something that you can afford and that fits within your budget? And if so, then it's probably more of, like, learning how to reframe your mind, to feel comfortable and not guilty buying those things. And obviously the difference between I'm spending so much money that I can't pay my bills. That might be like trying to pull back a bit on the spending, but from what you've described, it's sounding like it's just like reframing what that spending looks like and how spending money on yourself is not a bad thing and that you don't have to earn that, like, to spend on yourself. That's true. Yeah. I constantly tell myself before I buy something, I'm like, oh, do I deserve this? Should I be able to? I don't know if I should spend that much on something like that's. Too much money. Like I shouldn't be able to. And it's true because I've gone my whole life with setting myself up for first of all, failure, because I would set all of these fantastic goals for myself, whether it be weight loss goals or like this or that. And then I would say, you only get this one. You only get this when. And then I think that you're right. It's literally me trying to figure out if I deserve something or not and if I'm worthy of having a new bag or a new pair of shoes or a new dress. It is. It's restructuring the whole way of thinking about money. Yeah. And I think there's going to be so many people that are like, oh, my God, me relatable what you're saying right now. Oh, my God. Yeah. I want to challenge everyone listening to you to really think about how you feel when you buy something for yourself and what emotions come up. And if you have that thought of like, do I deserve this? If that's like something that's coming up for you, it's like you don't have to earn shooting yourself with love that you have to do in order to be able to buy things for yourself. If you have the financial means to do so, you should feel good about it. I think it's such an important part of anyone's financial journey is like being able to work on feeling happy and confident when you spend money on yourself and knowing that it's just as important as putting money in savings. It's like yourself. It's true. Yes. Because of living my life in one whole way. Like, because I went so long without believing I was worthy of new clothing or a decent paying job or things like that. I think that because you go so long that it is an adjustment and trying to remind yourself that that's okay. Yeah. So what advice do you have for people who are kind of on this journey right now, working on feeling comfortable in their bodies, on being authentically themselves? Well, at the same time, they're still receiving messages that telling them you're not good enough from all of these companies that are trying to capitalize off people's insecurities? That's a really good question. I think that the best advice I could give you is to surround yourself the best you can with people who have a mindset against those industries and those people, because there are people too. There's influence, there's celebrities, there's people who are very much feeding into that whole, like, societal diet, industry, beauty standards, and to try and remove yourself from that best you can, and to surround yourself with others who have the mindset that you have or the mindset you want to have, too. I think that that's how I started is just surrounding myself with a bunch of people who I wanted to be like, and I wanted to have that mindset. And then I slowly removed all the ones that made me feel guilty or like, bad that I wasn't dieting or bad that I wasn't driven to get to a certain weight or things like that. Well, I think this is a great note to end up on that. That was such great advice of clearing out those people that are not supporting the kind of lifestyle that you want to live and the way that you want to feel and then following those people that are anti diet culture and really like the opposite message. So obviously I'm suggesting you as an amazing person to follow and kind of get started on that journey. So how can people find you online? I'm on Instagram, at Zoe Potter, I'm on Tik Tok at lovezo Potter and I'm on YouTube and I'm trying to actually one of my 2022 resolutions was to be more active on my YouTube so it's Zoe Potter. Awesome. Okay, well, I will have all of those links below so everyone listening. Go follow Zoe on all platforms. I will have those links so you can check those out and I just want to say thank you so much for being here. This was such a wonderful conversation and I think that everything that we talked about is just so important and that so many people are going to be just resonating so much with everything you're saying. So thank you for your time. Thank you for having me. I had a blast. Okay, seriously, how incredible was that interview with Zoe? Make sure that you go and follow Zoe on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. All of the links will be below in the show notes. Also, we did mention wealthsimple in this episode and if you'd like to try out wealthsimple for yourself, I put a link down below where you can get some free money for signing up. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, we'd love it if you would share a screenshot on your social media and tell us what you loved about it. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can subscribe to the show rate and leave a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. I will be donating $1 for every review left in the first six months to organizations that our podcast guests have chosen. Thanks listening and remember to Keep Finance Queerd.