Abundance Mindset, Refugee Impact, and Money with Nina

I'm so excited to introduce you to this week's guest, Nina aka "neens" on social media! Nina is a content creator on IG and Youtube, an influencer in the lifestyle, beauty, fashion, and home space, and now the co-founder and chief brand officer of Multi, a wellness start-up. She is Vietnamese, American and Canadian, a child of immigrant parents, and a mom to her adorable son. We chat about so many things in this interview like her experience growing up in scarcity and then becoming a 6-figure entrepreneur, what it was like moving from San Francisco to Vancouver for university, how her money mindset differs from her parents, how prejudice and identity bias impact her experience navigating the world as an Asian woman and how her company Multi is shaking up the start-up industry by lowering the barrier to entry for investing in start-ups and directly supporting BIPOC woman.

You will walk away with tips on how to:
- shift your money mindset after growing up in scarcity
- deal with money guilt
- incorporate your values into your business and finances
- embrace your identity + become your own hype-woman
- navigate spaces where you face prejudice and bias
& and so much more!

FOLLOW + SUPPORT NINA:
IG: https://instagram.com/yourgirlneens
YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/c/Neensbb
SIGN UP FOR THE MULTI WAITLIST: https://instagram.com/mydailymulti 

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Transcript

0:00

Hi and welcome back to this week's episode of Keep Finance Queerd, a podcast that's putting the personal back in personal finance through complex and nuanced guest interviews and solo episodes. I'm your host Ellyce Fulmore. And today I am so excited to introduce our guest, Nina, who some of you might know know as "your girl neens" on social media. Nina is a very multifaceted entrepreneur. She is a content creator on Instagram and YouTube, an influencer in the lifestyle, beauty, fashion and home space, and now the Co founder and Chief Brand Officer of Multi, a wellness start up. I am obsessed with everything Nina posts because it is always so aesthetic and so fun and her content is very lighthearted and feel good, but it also just makes you feel like you're a part of the experiences that she's having. Like I feel like we're just best friends just following along her stories. She is currently living in Vancouver with her husband and her son. The most adorable kid I have ever seen. Seriously, go check out his hits on her Instagram. So cute. Some of the important aspects of Nina's identity that we will be discussing in this episode is that she is Vietnamese American and Canadian. She is a child of immigrant parents and more specifically parents who were refugees from the Vietnam War. We chat about so many things in this interview, like her experience growing up in Scarcity and then becoming a six figure entrepreneur. What it was like moving from San Francisco to Vancouver for University, how her money mindset differs from her parents, how prejudice and identity bias impact her experience navigating the world as an Asian woman, and how her company Malta is shaking up the startup industry by lowering the barrier to entry for investing in startups and directly supporting BIPOC women. Nina has so much value to share, so I'm going to stop talking and we will just get right into the episode. Hi there. Hi, I'm Sydney. My name is Rebecca. I'm an autistic kid woman. I'm Jane. I'm a first generation Lapping. I am a single mom and a survivor of domestic abuse. I am an ADHD plus sized millennial on the autism spectrum and Add, creating other problems in itself. Even though I bring in decent money, I struggle with dating ahead of everything. I am now struggling to pay off my debt. My traumatic brain injury means that it's hard for me to concentrate long enough to sort out my finances. The hardest time managing my finances, my parents were never able to teach me. I love my Starbucks habit and I'm not giving it up. Hi Nina, I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for having me. I actually have a funny story of finding you, so my employee recommended you and I started following you and I was like, oh my gosh, I need to have her on the podcast. But when I was creeping you and looking through your YouTube channel, I realized that I have watched your video on how to tile a table, like, two months ago because me and my girlfriend tiled our vanity in my bedroom. And I just thought that was so funny because we loved your video. We were like, this is the best video on how to tile a table. And we watched it so many times. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, that was you. That was just, like, really funny. I love that. I feel like that's like, the coolest thing about YouTube is you don't realize who you're watching, and then it's like the Internet is just such a small place. Eventually you're like, oh, I know that person. I have a contact for them, so that's awesome. I love that. Yeah, we love our tile tables. Thank you for the great video. So you definitely wear a lot of hats. I've already kind of touched on that a little bit. But you're a co founder and chief brand officer of Multi, which is a wellness startup. You're also a content creator and influencer making lifestyle and fashion content on YouTube and Instagram. And you just bought a home. Congratulations. And I've been over decorating it, and I've just been awe, honestly, of all the incredible things that you're doing. So for the listeners right now who are not familiar with you, could you tell us a little bit more about who you are and your journey to get to where you are right now? I feel like first question is so loaded. So a little bit about me, my background, I guess when I studied in school, I think that's like a good place to start, but also kind of irrelevant to where I ended up right now. But my background is in sociology and critical studies and sexuality, and so I studied those things mostly because I was interested in them. I've always been interested in people, and I think in a lot of ways, I just wanted to kind of mash all of my different interests together. And I think that was really eminent in how I chose the things I wanted to study in school. I was born in Toronto, and I grew up in San Francisco, and I went to University in Vancouver, and kind of throughout all of that time, my whole entire childhood, being a young adult teenager, I never really knew what I wanted to do. And when I started doing YouTube and Instagram, it was kind of at the beginning, definitely before the pandemic. I feel like it's a huge boom in terms of the numbers of creators that came out of that time. But I started about four or five years ago, and it was definitely born out of the desire to, like I said, mash all of my different interests together. It was a space for me to talk about the things that I want to talk about, to share my different interests and it was a place for me to be my own boss. And I think growing up in San Francisco, I was always surrounded by that entrepreneurial energy, and I always knew that's something I wanted to do, like working for someone else, just never felt right for me. And I think you grew up with that idea of being an entrepreneur, and it's so glamorous, but I'm sure, you know, it's hard. It's a lot of hard work. But anyways, that's how I kind of became an influencer. I found that I really enjoyed creating content, I really enjoyed connecting with people, and it was just a lot of unexpected opportunities that came out of creating content, which is pretty insane. But basically last year I started a startup with two of my co founders. It's honestly been a really incredible journey. And as I look back, I'm like, how did I get here? And it's pretty much like every decision that I've made, like, connecting me to different people, and I never would be where I'm at now. Like, five years earlier, I had to go through everything I went through to get me to this place, but yeah, so it's been a really incredible journey to kind of do a bit of a career shift. Like, I'm still doing influencing and contemptation, but it's more of like a part time job now versus running a start up, which is pretty crazy, but I have such an incredible team of co founders, and it's just, like, really uncharted territory because I'm sure, you know, the third world is very white male dominated, so it's definitely been an interesting journey. I don't even know if I really answered your question, but that's kind of how I got from where I was to where I'm at now. No, that was great. It's kind of like the interview question of like, tell me about yourself. It's like, okay, where do I even start? What do I touch on? I think that was a great introduction into who you are. Okay. As someone who is Canadian myself, it's very strange to me that you moved from the US and then came to Canada and stayed. I feel like I always hear the opposite happening, like, people leaving Canada to go to the US and stay there. So what was your experience, like growing up in San Francisco and then attending University in Canada and ultimately deciding to stay there? Yeah. So like I said, I was born in Toronto and I moved to San Francisco when I was, I think, two. And I always kind of felt, I think, just being Canadian because I have dual citizenship. I think being Canadian when everyone was just American, like, at my school, that's what makes me different. And I remember being young in elementary school and being like, life is too hard right now in school. What would my life be like if I lived in Canada? Still stayed there. So, like, in my mind, I always kind of idealized Canada, this other part of my identity that I never got to really explore, which is very interesting. And I guess, yeah, it doesn't happen too often because usually it's kind of like Canadians wanting to go to America. But when I applied to University, I applied a to bunch of schools on the West Coast. I really thought that I would go to school somewhere in California, but I also applied to UVC. And luckily, because I'm dual citizen, I would have paid domestic tuition. So I was like, it would be the same price as if I went to DC or something like that. And I didn't have a first choice school. But basically when I got my acceptance letters, I was the most excited about UBC. And so I think that was just my body's way, like my unconscious mind way of telling you this is actually something you really want to explore. So I ended up choosing to go to Canada, which it was so different from what everyone else is doing because everyone in my school is mostly staying in America for University and College. And so I think I'm always craving, like, some type of adventure in Canada. Really felt like an adventure. And I really enjoyed my time in Vancouver. And after my University degrees up, I was like, I'm just going to leave. I'm going to go back to San Francisco. But then I fell in love. I also started my influencing career. And for me, I can either go back to the States and do long distance with my boyfriend and then also go to La, where there's a lot of content creators, but it's really saturated. But I was also starting to see that there are more opportunities starting to pop up in Canada. And being a Canadian creator had its benefits. So I was like, you know what? Let's just try it. So I moved back to Canada, and I also figured that I could travel a lot. And before the pandemic, I was traveling a lot. So I was like, yeah, this is like a nice place to call home. And then I had a baby, and then here I am still. But this year I am moving down to La, so I will be making my American return. We'll be sad to lose you in Canada. I do feel like what you said about the opportunity is so true. Like, I've noticed in the finance space, there's not very many Canadian finance creators. And so if there is an opportunity in Canada from a company or something like that, there's kind of just, like, less influencers to choose from, which is positive for me being here. Yeah. Okay. So what were the biggest adjustments in going from San Francisco to Vancouver? What are your favorite parts coming to Vancouver, and what did you kind of have to adjust to? Well, I moved when I was 18, just about to turn 19. So it's like the first time that I was venturing out on my own, being an adult ish living in a new city by myself. And so obviously there were all of those transitions and experiences, but I think in terms of the city and the experience, they're honestly very similar. Like, it's the Pacific Northwest, so it kind of like looks it feels the same. I think the thing that I missed the most and what I'm most excited to get back to you in the States is more of the entrepreneurial spirit that I was talking about. And I feel like in the States and more specifically in San Francisco and maybe California, I feel like there's a lot of risk taking, and especially when it comes to business well, not even business. I think just in life. I meet a lot of people in Vancouver, and we have a lot of friends and family that are really comfortable where they're at, and that's not a bad thing, but it's not really the life that I want. And it's a bit hard as an entrepreneur because I don't want to just be staying still. I don't want to be comfortable. I want to push myself, and I want to grow and change. And that's true for you, personal and business. So I think that was definitely the biggest difference, is that I feel like Vancouver is very safe. That's not a bad thing. It's just a very different pace of life. And I'm at a phase of my life where I really want to grow. So I think going back and being around that energy would be really beneficial for me. Yeah, totally. I completely agree with that. Every time I visited California, La and San Francisco, I've always just felt that energy, too. Like, everyone's just doing something, everyone's creating and all around you. It's so cool. And I feel like you really or I felt at least you're really celebrated for doing those unique things. Whereas a lot of times in Canada, you're almost, like, judged for doing those things in public or like, there's not as many people doing it. So it seems like a little more strange maybe, but I really felt that energy in California, too. So I completely get that transition. That's why a lot of Canadians do move, because that's the joke, is that it's like I have a lot of friends that have moved to the States that are Canadian and are trying to get down there because you're trying to build these businesses, you're trying to do these things and put on these cool activations and pop ups. But a lot of times the city doesn't show up, and so you have to relocate, and you can't really change. I mean, you can try and there's a lot of people that try to change, like the fabric of the city, but it's a chill place. It's a chill place to be. It's a great place to retire, sit back, relax. Yeah, totally. Okay, so you mentioned in University you have a sociology background, which I find really interesting. I feel like now looking back on my University experience, that's something I would have loved to do, like gender, sexuality studies. I love my sociology classes that I took, but I have a kinesiology background, so I'm kind of the same as, like, not having a completely different University background than I'm using now. So would you say that you use your degree in any way in your career today? And if so, how did what you study inform your view on life, career, money, all those things? I feel like it's not direct, but I do use it every day, and I think sociology and studying sexuality is one of those. It, to me, feels like life skills where I remember being University, being like, why do we have to take a science credit? But not everybody needs to take a sociology class or like a sociology credit, because I really do think that it's life skills. It's how you connect to people. And I remember just thinking and just like experiencing people that were in business school, for example, and they didn't really understand, like, gender, race dynamics, like social constructs, like any of those concepts. And yet I was like, but you're going to work in a workplace where you're going to be interacting with people every day, and you do want to connect with people on these different levels and be compassionate. And so I think I use it literally all the time, and it's not direct. I remember my boyfriend's mom asking me on my graduation day like, oh, now that you have your sociology degree, are you going to go get a job in your field? And I was like, I know you can adapt it to anything. And I think that's, like one of the coolest things about getting a degree in the arts. No, I did not become like a sociologist or researcher or anything like that. And I think it's really archaic to think of degrees converting in that way because I don't really know many people that have those degrees and then go into those jobs. I think you have to be really smart about, like, if you're applying for jobs, be really smart about how you're selling your degree and what skills did you actually learn, what critical ways of thinking did you actually learn and how can you apply that to whatever you're trying to do? So I think now being the chief brand officer or even when I was an influencer, I'm definitely using those all the time because I constantly am interacting with people and with building a brand and being like the brand's voice. I have to be very conscious of how we're coming off, how people are going to receive us. If you want to be inclusive in the way that your brand's messaging is coming off to your consumer, you have to be thinking about all of these things. So in one way or another, I am using my degree. It wasn't actually necessary to get maybe not. I think a lot of people now are opting to not go to University and a lot of stuff you can learn online by yourself and it just takes a lot of discipline. But using it. Yeah, I think that's incredible. I love that you mentioned that you feel like it should be a required class because I feel the same way about a lot of things in University. I feel like the classes on how to read research articles or how to find something like a legit news source and things like that. I'm like that should be required class and University. Yeah. Just what you said about all these people going into different fields, they all deal with people and like especially entrepreneurs, people building a business, people that are doing marketing, anything like that. It's like now more than ever so important that you're understanding your audience, who you're speaking to, and how those different lived experiences will impact kind of what you're doing, which is definitely a huge pillar of my business and what I'm trying to do through this podcast as well. And yeah, I'm a little bit jealous of your degree. I wish I should have gone that route, should have gone to the art. It was honestly really fun. I chose my classes based on whatever sounded interesting and I loved every single class that I took in my major and in my minor. So I think that's the best way to do it. If anyone out there thinking about going to school choose what actually interests you because you're not going to have the stamina to study something that is not that interesting. And if you don't want to study it, you probably don't want to career it. Yeah, exactly. It might not be for you. I think that's great advice. Okay, so this is a question that I love to ask all of my guests that come on here and that's how has your identity or the major pieces of your identity impacted your relationship with money? Another loaded question. I always forget to talk about all the different aspects of my identity. So let me get them out there right now. Okay. So I am a Vietnamese Asian American Canadian woman. My parents were both refugees and migrants from Vietnam. So like after the war, which I think has a huge impact on my identity being like first generation as first generation College student and I have an older brother. I also now have a baby. Well, I guess he's not a baby, he's a toddler. So he's going to be turning to. But being a mom is definitely a big part of my identity and has definitely helped to shift my money mindset. But I think that my life right now is so different from what my life was like growing up. And a lot of that has to do with money. And I feel like I really, truly understand now that as unfortunate as it is, money is freedom. Money allows you the opportunity to do a lot of things. And growing up, money was always tight and my parents had very little money when they had moved to America and Canada and growing up as a child of refugees, they lost everything. Like we had no real foundation. And so growing up with their type of hustle and seeing that and seeing that money was always something that was really stressful, like we're not making enough of it and that money is scarce, that had a really big impact on my money mindset. And I didn't think that there was anything not wrong, but that wasn't how it has to be. I always just assume that money is going to be stressful. So I remember my parents getting into fights a lot of times about money and I remember my dad taking a lot of different odd jobs because my mom was a stay at home mom, both me and my brother and my dad was taking a lot of odd jobs to make ends meet and we would go to the food bank. And then I remember this period of time when my parents were arguing a lot and my mom was basically telling my dad that he needs to get a better paying job and so he decides to go to electrician school, becoming an electrician and that I think was like the biggest pivoting factor in terms of our family's financial situation because getting that schooling background and then getting a job in that field, my dad was making a lot more money afterwards. And so the first part of my childhood I remember as being a lot more scarce. And then as my dad was starting to make more money, like they saved up enough money to buy a house. And my mom always told me that she was the person that was really in charge of keeping our money. Like my dad was a big spender either, but she was really on top of not spending frivolously and making sure that we had enough money saved to invest in me and my brother's education and then also this house that my parents bought. And so she taught me the importance of saving, which I really am so grateful for because as annoying as it was to have her drill it into me every single day, like buy what you need, don't buy what you want. I mean, my philosophy has changed since then, but it definitely helped me to keep a lot of the money that I was making in the very beginning of my job experiences. And so I remember my parents just working really hard to give everything that they could to us. And we didn't grow up with a lot of toys. And I remember growing up and my mom would say whenever we were at the store and you wanted a toy, and then you would start crying because you couldn't have it. I remember just having to walk away, and I'm sorry she didn't say she was sorry, because very rarely do Asian parents say they're sorry. But she was saying that she just really couldn't take it because she was like, it was so painful to see you want that. And I wanted so badly to give it to you. And so I had to walk away because if I don't, then I would cave. But we can't spend money on toys like we need on food. And I think that it made me cry because I was like, it's so heartbreaking. And now being a parent, understanding what that struggle is like, you want to give everything to your children. They deserve everything, and you don't want to spoil them. But it's also like there's, like, these sweet little Angels that deserve the world. And so I know how hard it was for my mom to have to make those decisions, but I'm so eternally grateful that she did because my parents were able to pay for both me and my brother's University. And so I went to school without debt, which is incredible and so rare these days. And I'm so grateful that they saved all that money so that we could do that, because if I did have debt to pay off now, I don't know that I'd be in the same place that I am right now because it's a huge thing to put on some really young adults that are entering the workforce. So I feel like I don't even remember what your question was anymore. But basically that was kind of like what my childhood was like. And then it definitely shifted and changed. And as I was growing up, it was like we were making our family was making more and more money. And so I was seeing for the first time when I got to middle school, because I went from a public elementary school to a private middle school. I know you guys don't have that in Canada. So basically, after fifth grade to high school, I was in a private school, and I was still on financial aid, and I had scholarships and things like that, but my parents had more money to put into my education in that way. And for the first time ever, I was seeing wealth on a level that I had never experienced before. Because growing up in San Francisco Tenderloin, everything that I knew was low income and struggling, and money is tight, and it's not affluent in any way. And I remember busting to this new neighborhood in Pack Heights where my school was and seeing these ginormous houses. And I was like, oh, my God, I didn't know that people were wealthy in San Francisco. I just thought San Francisco was a poor place to live because we never ventured outside of those areas. And so it was mind blowing to me. And just experiencing that wealth disparity at such a young age was very interesting. And I don't really know. I guess I can't completely say all of the different things that I observed during that time and how it's affected me. But I definitely was thinking about money at a very young age. And I don't know if everybody does just because of the different experiences that I had. But, yeah, that's pretty much a little bit about my background and how money has played a role in basically my whole entire life. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So intertwined. And I can just imagine what an impact that has had on the way that you view money and spend money, especially as you became an adult, and especially moving away from home as an adult, too. That's already a scary thing of like, oh, I have adult expenses and things that I have to do. And being away from your family at that time, too, I just can't even imagine. But what an incredible story of your parents and the sacrifices that they've made for you and your brother. I just think that's so amazing. And it shows how hard they work to get to that point of, like, buying a home, sending you to school. I think that's just amazing. And yeah, it's something that I myself have not experienced. I'm not familiar with that. I don't have immigrant parents. I come from middle class, so I've always kind of lived comfortably. And so this is like an experience that I think is so important to talk about. I know that a lot of the listeners will be able to relate to it. So thank you for just kind of diving into details about that. And there's so many questions. There's so many things I want to ask you about this. I was talking and I was like, I think I'm hitting, like, five different topics right now. I wonder where this is going to go. No, I love it. Okay. So one thing I'm curious, is there any specific thing that your parents said that you really held onto or remembered around money? Now, as an adult, a lot of it was about saving. My mom always also told me to be very wary of credit cards, which as I've gotten older, I understand why she said it, but I do also think that she wasn't considering all the benefits that I could have, like building her credit and things like that. So when I was working, like, my first jobs and I was actually making money as a teenager, she basically just had me put all of my money in my bank account, and I would have a debit card, and that's what I use. And so she was like, only spend what you have. And I think for basically like four years of being in high school and being in University, I only had a debit card. And so if I didn't make money, I didn't have any money to spend. And I think that was a really great way for me to understand my relationship with money. And if I had gotten a credit card much earlier in my life, I think that I probably would have been much more frivolous with my spending. And so in a lot of ways, I think it was very helpful that she taught me that. But then I was like, how old was I when I got my first credit card? Maybe 22, 23? And I was like, I have no credit. Like, what the hell? Why did you tell me not to get a credit card? And so I think that there's two sides to it. But I definitely did create much better spending habits because I was like, okay, you only have $100, so you need to budget out $100 for the next week. You're not going to eat. And so I wouldn't buy ridiculous things that I couldn't pay for, which at that age, I 100% would have, right? Yeah. So not having a credit score, did you find that when you went to go get a credit card, was it an issue that you ran into, like, trying to rent an apartment or anything like that? So in Vancouver, I feel like I honestly think it's much easier to get an apartment here than in a lot of other places. I feel like I hear stories about how hard it is in New York and La, San Francisco, you do these really expensive checks. But when I got my first apartment with my boyfriend, they didn't check any of those things. They just wanted. Yeah. But also, to be fair, what is it like? The apartment manager was Serbian and so is Dayon. So it was like the Serbian connect. Maybe it was that, yes, they just trusted each other. Yeah, exactly. So she was like, oh, I understand, because for my boyfriend, it was his first time moving out of his house. And she was like, I understand you don't have past recommendations because how serious parents are, like, they keep their children at home. So she was very understanding. But for our second apartment, they did run credit checks. And by that time, I was already incorporated, and I had my influencing career had taken off, and I had a credit card for a little while. So they actually said that my credit score was a bit lower than their threshold. And that was mostly because I was spending basically to the Max of my credit card. And even though I was paying it off in full every single month, I didn't realize that when your spending limit is basically, like, at the end of your limit, essentially for your credit card, that's what affects your score. So I was like, oh, I'm paying off in full. Like, it's fine. Whereas my boyfriend had had his credit card for a really long time for maybe, like eight years, and he always stayed pretty low. And he always did it off. Like, he always pay off the minimum. So he had great credit. He had really good credit. And they were like, we looked at both of yours and because my boyfriend was better than mine and it met their threshold and they accepted us. So I was actually surprised to learn that. But I think my credit is actually quite good now. And that's mostly just because I've adjusted the way that I'm spending on them. But it was definitely hard. I mean, when I first got my credit cards, I just got your basic student one like a very small amount. And then I think just in time being able to prove that I pay my minimums and I was paying in full at that time. So they eventually just increased my limits quite high. But I think it'll be different when I get to the States because I have no credit in the States. That's like in Canada, no credit in the States. It does not transfer. So to be honest, when I moved down to La, I think I might have to have my parents co sign with me on an apartment, depending on if they look at my credit score. And they're like, there's nothing here. Yeah, I know. I thought about that before, too. I'm like, how does that work? Because obviously you need a place to stay when you get there to place without having that credit already. And I want to take a moment just to talk about the maxing out your credit card just for people listening, because I'm sure there'll be people that are like, wait, I do that right now. So, yeah, what Nina is referring to is something called credit utilization. So that is like the percentage of the total credit that you have available to you that you're actually using. So if you have a credit card with a$1,000 limit and you spend $1,000 of it in a month, then you would be at 100% utilization. And this will like a high credit utilization will negatively affect your credit score, which is something that a lot of people don't know and that nobody ever tells us. They should tell you this when you got a credit card at the bank. So a good rule of thumb is to try and stick below 30% utilization on your credit card. And if you go above that, a way that you can kind of avoid a negative impact on your credit score is making multiple payments in a month. So that when the amount that you're using is reported to credit bureaus, which happens once a month, it'll then be lower than what you actually spent on it. So that can be a way to kind of avoid that. But yeah, for everyone listening who's like, oh, shit, that's me right now. Just like, aim to stick below 30%. But if that's not possible and if you have more bills that you're putting on your card, then you can also do multiple payments a month, and that can help. So I'm glad you brought that up. I think that's a really good, like, learning moment and something that I didn't know either until I got into personal finance. Okay, so amazing. So you touch on some of the things that you remember your parents saying, and I know that now you're living quite a different life than your parents lived. So how do you feel like your money mindset differs from your parents? Like, in this current day, it's completely different. I feel like my parents definitely have the scarcity mindset, and that's fair because that's the experience that they had. Where money is tight, there isn't a lot of money to go around, and you kind of have to really hold on to all of the money that you have and really fiercely save it. They also don't invest. And I remember when I was wanting to get into investing, when I was really starting to make money, I asked them about it, and they were like, oh, do all of those new quest trader don't do those things? Quest trader, what's that quest trade? They were like, don't do those things. Like just go to the bank and ask them for their investment portfolios and what you can do there. And I was like, no, that's way too safe. So I definitely am much riskier with what I'm comfortable with. I really like taking risk, and I'm really okay with taking your risk, and it not working out. And I'm like, at least I tried it, whereas they're 100% not like that at all. And I think a lot of that is just because I have an abundance mindset where I definitely had scarcity. And I think it's very fair to have scarcity when money is really tight. But then as you start making money, you're like, there is so much money to be made. When you do get creative, you can be in control of how much money you want to make. And obviously, I say this coming from a place of immense privilege where I didn't have debt to pay off for my schooling, and I also had parents that were able to help support me through University. But very early on, as soon as I was making enough money to provide for myself, I was like, I want to be fully financially independent. And I think that I encourage everybody to do that. Obviously your circumstance is your circumstance, but if you can try and prioritize that, I think it's so incredible, and you just learn so much about yourself and about what you're capable of when you're fully independent. And so I don't remember what your question was. It was just how your mindset differs from your parents mindset. And so I feel like now I definitely have the mindset of no matter what, I'm going to be okay and money will ever flow. Sometimes there will be more. Sometimes there will be less, but there is so much out there. And I think that also really helps. I mean, this is kind of with everything, but just being more compassionate towards other people, not feeling jealous if somebody has an opportunity that maybe you were like, I wanted that literally so much to go around. And when you really start looking into, like, a scarcity versus abundant mindset, it really helps for you in that way, I think, because you just understand that everything is going to constantly change no matter what, and that there will be times where you're low and there'll be times where you start, but there's always, like, enough to go around. And it's really important that there are structures in place that don't allow that to happen. So do you think that wealth redistribution and things like that are very, very important and important things to think about and talk about? So another way in which we're different is that my parents are not very philanthropy type. And I remember being in middle school, and they were doing, like, a fundraiser, and they're like, if everyone can donate, like $5 or something. And I went home and asked my mom, $5, not that much money, you can definitely donate $5. But she was like, why would I donate to people when we need the money? Like, we are the people that are in need. And so I was like, that's fair. But also there are people that are even more in need than you are. And so I definitely grew up with more of a philanthropy mindset, I think, because I received so much aid and so much support to get me to where I am that I know the power that money has and that for all these amazing nonprofits and places that are really supporting different demographics that are in need. Like, they need money, they need finances order to pay themselves so that they can continue doing that great work, but also to keep doing that work. So I think through my experience of growing up and just seeing that, yes, we are in need, but also that we are privileged in a lot of ways has definitely helped me to shape a very different money mindset with my parents. Yeah. It's so amazing to me the shift that you've had from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset, because I've worked with a ton of different people that have come from a similar background that are also, like successful entrepreneurs making six figures and still really struggle with that scarcity mindset. And I'm curious for you, what types of things did you have to learn or unlearn in order to get to that abundance mindset? So the shift really happened, I think once I started making a lot of money. And that's why I do think a lot of it is privilege, and that if I was still struggling and living, like paycheck to paycheck, it's really hard to try and tell somebody you need to have an abundance mindset because how do you do that in that situation? I think that once you do start making money and you're like a successful entrepreneur, like all of these things, it's really looking at. Like for me, it was looking at, OK, now that I have money, what truly is the value of this? Why did you make all of this money? Like, what is it supposed to do for you? How can it help you and how can it help other people? I think that when I started making a lot of money, I was like forced to confront my money mindset because once I had made it, I really didn't feel like I deserved it. And then I was like all of my friends because I started making six figures basically the next year out of University. And so that's really early in your career to be making that type of money. And a lot of my friends are not making that type of money, but we're all going out together and all these things. So I'd be like, let me, I'll pay for this, I'll pay for that. And I would start just like giving my money away because I really didn't think that I deserved it. All these other people work really hard and they deserve it too. And so I think that in the beginning I was very like, okay, I made my 1st 100K. Let's lock it down and make sure that I keep this money and I forget it. And in a lot of ways, I still do have an imaginary number in my mind once it falls below the threshold, like danger, you need to start making more money because I always make sure that I have a nice cushion, that if anything does happen, I have my savings. But I think that after the next year where I was making even more money and then more money, I was like, wait, why am I trying to hold onto it so tight and believe that I have to for all of this money when it is possible for me to continue making more and that it is just going to keep flowing essentially. And I think a lot of that is trusting the process. And the reason why I love taking risks so much is because I've taken so many and I've seen where it's gotten to me and I think back and reflect and if I was of a scarcity in my set where I'm like, okay, I can't afford to take that risk and I need to just stockpile my money and do what's safe and all of these things. I would never be where I'm at today. Like, I would never become the kind of entrepreneur that I want to be. So I don't really know if I'm answering your question, but I feel like that shift happened during that period of time and I think a lot of it has to do with just experiencing it and understanding that what is truly the point of having money if it's one not to live to help other people and also investing yourself? Like, I invest so much of my money just back into my business and growing the things that I'm doing. And I think that's one of the most incredible ways to put your money. And then in that way, more money comes from that money. You're able to make more money. And so then I think you realize that the world is so abundant and that there really is just so much out there. But so much of it, I think, is linked to whether or not you are able to take risks and invest in yourself, invest in other people and your ideas, or if you truly believe that, I don't know that it's better to live life very safely, which I think a lot of people did. I think a lot of people in, like, my parents generation did, and that's what worked for them. But I just used to see life very differently. Yeah. I feel like you've already given so many tidbits in there of, like, taking risks, investing in yourself, and it's really sounding like you were just kind of through your experience, through going through, like, starting your business and everything that you just reached a point where you had to face those mindset things and you couldn't really go further because it was holding you back probably at that point. So you've already given so many good pieces of advice. But do you have anything else you would add or advice you would give to other children, specifically from immigrant parents, who are struggling with feeling that guilt or shame of like, they don't deserve the money that they're now making and like, how to kind of overcome that. Yeah. So I actually experience these conversations a lot with younger people in my life that what I love about this generation, Gen C, is that you're so incredibly sure of themselves. I think what I'm seeing is so much more of that than our generation, actually. I don't know how old you are, but I'm a millennial. Exactly. You grow up very self conscious and like all these things. And obviously, I'm sure that still happens. But there's this wave of youth that are so incredibly passionate and just true to who they are, which I think is incredible. And I was speaking to some young people that I think fall under that umbrella, and they want to do all these incredible things for other people. And then I'm like, okay, but what about you? You can work for these nonprofits, and I think that word is so incredibly important. But if you want to pull your family out of property, how are you going to do that? Are you doing the work to also invest in yourself and fulfill your dreams? Because all of that work is so incredibly important. But also you should also be prioritizing yourself because you deserve to feel good and you deserve to make money and live comfortably. And that it's a lot to put on a child to try to pull their family out of poverty. And I think for children that are reality. And I think for me, I just know that's my responsibility. And that's probably because I've been conditioned to think that way and I want to repay my parents in that sense of feeling. But I also deserve to live a life that I want to live and that I deserve to have my dreams. I talked to these young people and they're like, oh, we don't dream here. And I'm like, what does that mean? You deserve to invest in yourself and you deserve to be happy, whatever that means to you. And I think it's a lot that is put on children of immigrants, especially when your parents come from a less privileged country and you have all of this incredible opportunity to be had in these countries. And it's a lot of pressure because you grow up with this mentality of like, you have to make more money so you can support us. And we did everything for you. It's that parenting is sacrifice. It's all of that. And that messaging is a lot. And if you buy into that, that's great. And that's amazing that you want to help your family do that, but also you are important and your happiness is important. And so I think that's the main thing that I would say that you matter. Yes. Put on your own oxygen mask first. Exactly. And then it's just others because you can't help anyone if you're struggling and if you're in survival mode, it's so hard to extend that help to other people. So I think, yeah, that's amazing advice. And I definitely can. Like I've witnessed from an outside perspective a lot of that pressure that is placed on children of immigrant parents and have a couple of friends that are in that scenario, too, of like that just expectation to support their parents and to retire them and all of those things. And I can't imagine what that pressure must feel like. But I think that's amazing advice of you matter, your dreams matter, and you need to also prioritize yourself. And once you've done that and you're comfortable, you can then give your money back to whoever. Yeah, because when you're burnt out and you're stressed, you're tired and you're unhappy and all of those things, you're at math, like, you've reached your map. But if you are fueling yourself. And I think that was a lot of I think kind of like the guilt, too, that I felt like when I was starting to make a lot of money, I was like, I always imagined that when I was making that type of money, I'd be writing huge checks to my parents, like all of these things. But I think for me, I'm running a long game where I support my parents and like, well, actually, no, I shouldn't say that I don't financially support them, but right now they're doing fine. But I want them to retire as soon as possible. But I know that if I give them all the money that I have right now, I'm not going to get to that place. And so my goal is in five years, after I do the things that I need to do, I will have much more financial opportunity in order to be able to really, truly give them the life that I want to. And so, yeah, I don't think that your first paycheck, if that's what you want to do to help support your family or pay their mortgage. I think like a lot of children of immigrants, your dream is like pay off your parents'mortgage check and you're in a place that's great. But if you're making very little money that you need and that you need to put your own savings, don't feel bad about that. Do what you need to do, and then you'll be able to better help them in the future. 100% you mentioned wealth distribution a couple of times. I just like how that's something that's really important to you. Would you be able to share some tangible ways that you implement that into your monthly or annual spending? Yeah. So I mean, for me personally, I usually donate to a nonprofit of my choice, like on my birthday. And then also just like as I see go fund me and things like that, whatever I can share, I tend to just do that. There's no expectation, like every month, like your finances, like adding flow, like year to year. So I feel like just doing whatever feels right to me. But then also in terms of building a business. So that's like me personally, but in terms of the business. So for multi, I'm in charge of our philanthropy sector. And so for us, we're definitely thinking about the ways in which we can donate money, like profits from sales, things that are pretty standard for what a company normally does. But then another big part of it. And what I have learned recently is building out our captain and why that matters, who is on it. And I don't know how familiar you are with startup space and investing in startups and all those things, but obviously the people that get in on the ground floor will have the most equity, usually, and your money grow exponentially by the time a startup gets either goes public or gets bought out by a bigger conglomerate. And so we thought about all these things when we were creating, like our five year roadmap and we knew that we wanted a cap table that was primarily bypoc women and have other people on there as well. But I believe that it's like, I mean, actually, I probably shouldn't say percentage, but it's more than 90% by pop women, which is incredible. And why that's important is that basically you'll invest some money now and then it will grow exponentially and usually these opportunities are only afforded to usually white men and it's people that already have the capital and so then they put it into these startups and then it's usually their friends. So then it's like all these friends just investing in each other's startups and they're all making money more rich and it's getting more rich. And I think that I definitely have had to contend with my feelings about capitalism and what role we play in this space, but it's also something that I truly believe is not going anywhere and we might as well utilize it to the best of our ability to redistribute that well, because all of the people that we have on our cap table understand what it is that we want to do in terms of how we want to redistribute well and that I really, truly believe will create like a ripple effect. It's good because when you do get that huge payout at the end, after all of our years of hard work, my goal is to redistribute a lot of that wealth and put it into places and put it into like friends and artists and people that deserve that type of money that do not have access to that type of money. And so I feel like it's so, so important. But it's also mind blowing when you start thinking about how much money is out there and how much is just being held by one single 1%, literally the 1%. It's definitely complicated feelings when it comes to being in the venture capital space and things like that. There's maybe only one other brand that we've seen that has talked about like building a very intentional cap table. So it's like how many brands and industries are out there where all of this money is being kept in this one tier and nobody else is going to change that. So I want a piece of that and I want the people that need it. I love that so much. And you're just inviting so many people to the table that would not usually be included in those conversations or be even invited into those opportunities. And that makes me so happy to hear. I think that's such an incredible thing and that's definitely a huge inspiration for me moving forward with my business too. And being in the personal finance space. It's like a lot of the same male dominated, a lot of rich white men and a lot of people that just aren't included in the conversations, which is the big thing behind this podcast too is like having guests on that aren't usually invited into money conversations and not just talking to finance Bros. About the same stuff. So I love how you've incorporated both into your personal life and in your business of redistributing this wealth and really upholding that value of yours, I think is so important. And I want to share a little something that I do, too, for people that are listening. I think that the method of kind of donating when you can is also like a great thing to do so that you don't feel that pressure of your income, especially with a fluctuating income. As your income changes every month, you don't have to be like, oh, I feel really bad because I didn't give this X amount of dollars that I said I was going to. And you can kind of just go with what you're making. And also, I love the idea of donating on your birthday. I think that's amazing. And something that I like to do is put a little bit aside. Every month I have a little thinking fund that I can put money aside to donate. And that way, for me, it's just I need to automate it or I'll forget. So that's just how my brain works. But that's just like another tip you could do too, for people listening if it feels like, yeah, you might just forget about it if you don't have it happening. So even taking out like $3 a month, $5 a month and putting it into an account or whatever you can do with your budget. But yeah, I think that's like two different ways. Actually. There's multiple different ways that we just talked about that you can kind of uphold this value if that's something that's important to you too. So thank you for sharing that. I'm going to go do research on what you just said about startups. Was it Capstone, cap a captain, a Capstone? Honestly, it's mind blowing when you just look at how much money is in these industries. So for us, multi is in the wellness sphere, and you just look at how much money is in that space alone. It's insane. And so you see articles about, like, I believe Tasha got acquired. What is it? The people just got acquired, even though they didn't disclose how much it is. And there are huge numbers. They're like, in the millions, like hundreds of millions. And there is like, I mean, that's like a lot of money, but it's also like a lot of work to get a brand to that level from literally the ground to where they're at. It's also just like, okay, all these brands and these companies are getting acquired. And what happens all the money after, like, a lot of it goes to the founders. Who are the other people, like their PC firms, their investors, angel investors, and who are those people? And it's so rare that it's bypawk individuals. Like, it's very rare. But then another thing that we did was in building our cap table is we did an access round. So that was mostly prioritizing, bypass individuals making under 60K. So we really wanted to create that opportunity for when you invest in a startup a lot of times you have to be accredited. And being accredited means that you have a net worth of either, I think over. Okay, I probably shouldn't say this because it's not going to be accurate. You have to have a net worth of like 2 million and making a certain amount. And so it's like it's really not accessible to a lot of people. And so we found a way to be able to actually allow accredited and non accredited investors. And then we did this access round so that lower income folks, like five folks have the ability to invest in our startup, which is literally never like, it's so rare that happens. I shouldn't say never, because I'm sure that it does, but it's very rare that it does. And so that was really cool for us to be able to do that. And, yeah, just rethink what our captain can be. And when we say redistributing wealth and doing good and all those things like, how are we actually doing that? Because everybody. Yeah, that was going to be my next question of like, usually you have to have a lot of money to invest in a startup. So then how does that work? Yeah, for the access round, it was like 100 and $500. So it was like really low entry. That's still a lot of money, but it was like much lower entry. Whereas for our friends and family round, we were asking for checks in the thousands. So, yeah, it's just like being able and even then looking at the checks that you were asking for and also listening to podcasts of other startup founders. Like, I listen to other founders and they're like, oh, yeah, we have to accept small checks, like $10,000. And I'm like, what do you mean that's a small check? Like, that's so much money. The wealth disparity and the perspective on money. Yes, it's a lot. Yeah. But that's like. Yeah, it's a way that opening up those doors is what allows people to have that opportunity. And you mentioned taking risks earlier. That's a risk that someone can take. That's not going to put them $10,000 in debt. It's like something that they can still comfortably do, but allows them to kind of get into that space that is not usually accessible to them. So, yeah, that's amazing. And you definitely opened up a whole new thing for me to, like dive into a Tiger Focus office, but it's going to blow your mind. Yeah. Okay. So before we end the podcast, I do want to talk a little bit more about your experience as being Asian American, because I guess you didn't say it on the podcast, but in the interview form that you filled out beforehand, you had mentioned that you're often, like, seen as inferior or foreign and or fetishized. I always have such a hard time saying that word. And that can set the tone for a lot of the conversations that you have with people. So when engaging in conversations about money, how does this perceived identity bias and prejudice that folks may have against you impact your experience in those spaces? So, like, for example, going to the bank to ask for a loan or getting investments from renting an apartment or buying a home or advocating for yourself and your family in medical spaces, showing up on social media like any of the above. I mean, I think that a lot of it has to do with my race, but also the way that I present myself and that I feel like I sometime still dress like a child and my energy is still like that. So I think a lot of times when I'm pulling into these spaces where you're expected to be more professional or walk into a bank, and I literally will just say, I want to talk to someone because they want to talk about my business account, and they'll be so surprised that I have a business account. It's just like all those little things. And I feel like in a lot of ways, Asian women are seen as docile and quiet, and I need help and things like that. And I think that really has informed the way that I want to show up in this world, and I really don't need that. I think when I was younger, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I had my baby, and I kind of, like did a lot of thinking about who I am and how I show up in this world. And I was much more timid, I think, before I had a baby, and I would kind of let people walk all over me and just allow it to happen because it's easier. And I think people think that it's easier to walk all over Asian women because we are perceived that way. But now I'm much more likely. And it doesn't mean I do it all the time, but I'm much more likely to speak my mind. And if something is wrong or I don't like it, I really just don't have the patience for it. And I also kind of like being perceived one way and then surprising people. I think I find great joy in it, and I've always kind of been like that where I don't think that a lot of people look at me and assume that I would be a co founder of a startup or that we were able to raise this much money in our friends and family around, and we were able to do these incredible things that typically don't come from BIPOC women. And so even when I was doing a pop up, I was doing a serial pop up with my boyfriend who's, like this tall, white Serbian man. Everybody went up to him and just assumed that he was the manager, that he was like the person that ran it. And I'm like, hello, it's me. Hi. We did it together, but nobody would address me. People don't shake my hand. They shake his hand and stuff like that. And I think it's just really exciting to present one way and to surprise people because like they say, when you're really good at what you do, it doesn't matter how you look. And obviously there are so many roadblocks and things that I experience because sometimes it's hard to even just get a meeting because people would be like, who are you? And they won't take you seriously. And that's unfortunate. But also I think that the world is starting to shift a bit and that people are trying to be more open to women of color, people of color being in these spaces. And it's just really incredible to be a part of that. But there are definitely a lot of systemic barriers and things that I can't fix, I can't change. But it's really just the fight that has to keep you going. You have to want it bad enough that he's doing it every single day. And I have accepted that there are going to be people that won't take me seriously. There are going to be people that don't believe in what it is I want to do or that I'm capable of, and that's just the reality. And I have to work around it. But I think in a lot of ways it's also shifted. And I didn't really talk about this before, but because I am the breadwinner of my family and that was huge for me to kind of reshift and think about my identity and relationship to money, my partner's relationship to money and the roles that we play. And I think that a lot of people don't expect that, and a lot of people are really surprised. And then when we say that, it's really interesting, even our friends sometimes will be like, yeah, but Dan does stuff to support you, right? He's still and I'm like, yes, he has his worth and he has its value. But why is it hard to accept that there's all these things that I do that support my family? Why do we have to also make sure that his ego is stroke, which would never happen the opposite way? It would never. But then it's also interesting because this is just a whole other topic. But talking about parenting roles and stay at home mom, stay at home mom. But we'll look at them, they're like, Are you happy? Like, are you okay with that? And I'm like, fucking happy guys. Like, leave them alone. Are you okay? You being held against your will. It's so interesting. But they'll say things like, oh, you know, but one day you want to have your own dreams, right? Or you'll still want to do something. And I'm like, no thing on truly is very happy being a stay at home dad. And he doesn't have dreams and aspirations to career as much as sexism affects women, it also affects men in that it's interesting. They expect him to be upset, and they expect him to have all these aspirations that he doesn't have. Like, he's really happy being at home and just chilling and not building a career. And I think that's really foreign for a lot of people. And so, yeah, I feel like everything about my identity definitely does lend itself to, like, oh, like, what do you mean? But I think leaning into the fact that my identity is not something that I can change, but that it's really cool to be able to be, like, breaking, I don't know, like, shattering really cool thing to be proud of. And people get so uncomfortable when you challenge the patriarchy. They can't handle it. Yeah. Okay. Well, we could dive into that whole thing right now, but we're running out of time. How much we could talk about. Oh, my gosh. Okay, I'll try and wrap it up here. So what advice would you give folks who identify similarly to you or are on a similar kind of path as you in regards to embracing their identity within their finances? I think that's the biggest thing for me was accepting that it will always change. Like, obviously not your identity is who you are. And I think that learning to one grow and accept that is like the first step. And seeing that that's actually your power. Obviously, there's a lot of things in our society that will hold you back, but you are incredible and you are so unique, and that is your power and that you should be very proud of where you're at, because there's literally so many things backed up against you to not succeed. And I think that I went through a lot of years being really insecure, not loving who I was, being really ashamed of my identity and wanting to be different. But there are literally so many things that are working against you that you can't control. And so why would you not be, like, your biggest hype man in order to get you to where you want to be? And I remember being in University and somebody saying that I was too cocky or arrogant or confident, which I don't think is true. I do think I'm confident, but not the other things. And they were saying it like it was a negative thing, but I was like, why wouldn't I be? Because there's literally, like, people will try to tear you down. Like, different structures will tear you down based on your identity. And why would you not be confident in yourself? Because you are literally the only person that will ride for yourself. Nobody will fight for you harder than yourself, so you have to be that person. Even though things are hard, it always has been flowed. Like, there will always be, like, high moments and low moments. And accepting that that's going to be a reality is like, really helpful in terms of not completely beating yourself up when you're low because you can always turn that around. I know that I say that from a place of immense privilege, but I do think that you should be proud of where you're at. You should celebrate that and don't force anything that doesn't need to be forced. Just move with us low, say yes to opportunities and take risks. And I feel like you'd be really surprised at how far you've come in, like a year, two years, three years. That's all the advice I have to give. Yeah. Like you just said, there's so many systems that are working against you. There's so many things stacked against you, especially if you have any sort of marginalized identity. And so you don't need to do that to yourself. You could be the opposite of that to yourself and give yourself as much encouragement and opportunity as you can, obviously, within the constraints of society. But I think it's absolutely amazing advice you're allowed to change. I think that was one of the biggest things that I had to learn growing up, because you're, like everyone at school knows me a certain way. Like, my parents know me a certain way. Like, I don't want to be that anymore. Well, when you wake up tomorrow, you don't have to be that way anymore. Every single day you have a choice. And I think that's, like, the greatest thing about going to sleep tomorrow is and it's so cheesy and everybody says it, but you have the ability to change. If you want to be different, you can be different. You don't need permission from anybody else. You can wake up and decide that for yourself. Yes. And there's no timeline. Like, I know you said this at the very beginning that you wouldn't be where you are right now, like five years ago because it had to happen that way. And that's another thing, too. It's not too late to go back to school if you want to. It's not too late to switch career paths. It's not too late to start investing or whatever it is. You're on your own timeline, and it's going to work out the way that it's meant to. Like, based on what you decide to do, the decisions that you make every day. Like you said, wake up and make those decisions and be whoever you want to be tomorrow when you wake up. Okay, so last question to end it off, I would love to know how money has changed your life. I think one of the greatest examples is that I wouldn't have my toddler right now if I didn't have money, if I didn't experience the type of freedom that money provides you. I was very conscious when I was debating whether or not I wanted to go through with my pregnancy of whether or not I was financially stable enough to provide for this child. That was really important for me. And Luckily I was. And so I guess not luckily, because it was still a part of my decision, but I was. And so that was a really big determining factor for me. And so I think just in having more of an abundant mindset and being very blessed to be in the position that I'm in, I can see that money is freedom and allows you to make certain life decisions that you can't when you're strapped. And that's a privilege. And it's insane that our world functions in this way where in order to make basic decisions in order to just survive, we need money in order to live a happy, fulfilling life, you do need funds in order to do that for yourself. So I do believe that money is freedom and that it shouldn't be something that you really need in order to survive. But unfortunately it is. But I think that's definitely one of the biggest ways in which money has impacted me is that it just allows me to do more and to be able to go to acupuncture and get massage therapy, and all of those things are privileges that you're afforded wouldn't have money, but money is an immense privilege. Money gives you that freedom to make those decisions and to not be held back by money and not have to choose between things because of money. Like, you now have that freedom to make the decisions that you want to make and do the things that you want to do without that financial constraint, which is obviously something that holds a lot of people back. And I don't think that money is happiness. Like everyone says, money is happiness, but I think money is freedom. It's like whatever happiness means to you. Because I think as I was starting to make a lot more money, I was like, I need this, and I need that. And then I was falling into this hole of all the shit that I needed that I really didn't need. And we were living in this Ginormous apartment before. We recently bought this one that we're living in now. But that was mostly because I was like, oh, my God, we can't afford it. Why wouldn't we? But also I can use that as a workspace and also, like a home space. And it was just, like the most insane apartment that I could have imagined. And then I got it, and it was so much anxiety. Like, I really didn't want it. It didn't feel like me. It felt like way too much. And that's, again, a huge privilege to be able to be put in that situation. But I feel like I'm really glad that I learned that lesson early in my life. Whereas if you don't need all of this stuff and you should really think about, no matter where you're at with your money, really think about what that money means to you, what would you actually spend it on? Because all of that stuff that you don't actually need will not bring you happiness. I like saying that money is freedom, because what I truly, truly want is to retire and literally just hang out with my family and friends. That's all I want. That's it. You need money to do that. But I don't need all of the fancy, frivolous, materialistic things. Those things are nice. And I'm not to say I won't have that. So don't come for me. Yeah, you can do both and you can do it in a way that feels right for you. I think that money a lot of times is used as a way to here I am veering off on a tangent, but use as a way to show off to other people and perception is reality. Like all of those things, if you believe that you will come to money and then realize that it's not making you happy. And I think that's why a lot of work, no matter where you're at in your money mindset, should be put into your money mindset. And really, truly, what does that money mean to you and what will that actually get you? Like, if you have poor spending habits and all those things, when you have a lot of money, that same stuff will happen. It doesn't matter if you have $100. If you have $100,000, you go through that money. So do that work. You heard it hear from Nina people. If you don't listen to me when I say it, maybe you'll listen to Nina. Money is freedom. I love that. And I think the money can't buy happiness, that kind of thing. It's just more of like a reframe. I think that my kind of take is that money can help buy you things that bring you happiness. But it's about realizing, like you said, what actually makes you happy, like being with your friends and family or buying things for your child and for your family and doing those types of things is what really brings you happiness, rather than the material things, which if material things bring you to happiness, then buy those things, like whatever makes you happy. But I think that money can buy you the experiences and allow you to do the things that make you happy. And I love to like money as freedom, too. I think those are just amazing things. You guys can add those to your money affirmations in the morning or something. Okay, well, this has been amazing. And thank you so much for your vulnerability throughout this episode and just sharing so much of your life and your experience. And I know that so many people just are probably relating so much to everything you've said, and it's just so many important conversations that were had in awe might have to bring you on for five more episodes. But thank you so much for being here and taking time out of your day. Thank you so much for having me. I honestly had so much fun and it was really great to be on here with you. Amazing. I'm so glad you had fun and for everyone looking to connect with you where are the best places that they can find you and learn about you and multi? Yeah so you can follow me on Instagram if your curl means on YouTube it is just means I always say just needs to be highlighted but it's multi. You can go to my dailymote.com if you're there sign up for our wait list. That would be huge. Just very helpful when you're building a startup to have a great robust waitlist of people that are actually interested in your products. So any wellness buffs out there head there and also on Instagram at my daily routine. Amazing. Well I will link all those down below so the listeners can find it and yeah go support Nina. Go support the startup and the amazing like everything that you're creating with the start up and supporting BIPOC women with that as well. So go sign up for the waitlist. I will go do that. Thanks for having me. What an incredible episode that was. I am definitely going to dive into the world of startup investing because I want to learn way more about this. I am just fascinated with information that Nina shared. Go follow Nina on Instagram and YouTube and also make sure that you go and sign up for the waitlist for Multi to show your support. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, we'd love it if you would share a screenshot on your social media and tell us what you loved about it. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can subscribe to the show, rate and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I will be donating one dollars for every review left in the first six months to organizations that our podcast guests have chosen. Thank you for listening and remember to Keep Finance Queerd.