ADHD, Toxic Relationships and Money with Lexa

I'm so excited to introduce you to this week's guest, Lexa VanDamme! Lexa (she/her) is a queer personal finance coach and creator of The Avocado Toast Budget (The ATB). Her mission is to teach people how to save, pay off debt, invest, and finally feel confident with money. We chat about navigating guilt and shame around money, creating and finding safe spaces online, how toxic relationships impact your finances and how to financially protect yourself, combining finances, normalizing money conversations, and how ADHD affects your money. 

You will walk away with tips on how to:

- overcome guilt + shame around money 

- find a safe community online 

- maintain financial autonomy in relationships 

- have money conversations with your partner 

- create a budget that supports your life 

- foolproof your finances for ADHD

& and so much more!

**TW in this episode for emotional abuse, abusive relationships, and financial trauma

FOLLOW + SUPPORT LEXA:

IG: https://www.instagram.com/theavocadotoastbudget/

TIKTOK: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZML4DRR6W/

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/c/LexaTheAvocadoToastBudget

SIGN UP FOR ATB’S FINANCIAL SURVIVAL GUIDE: https://theavocadotoastbudget.teachable.com/p/the-atb-financial-survival-guide-sales-page

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Transcript

0:00

Hi and welcome back to this week's episode of Keep Finance Queerd, a podcast that's putting the personal back in personal finance through complex and nuanced guest interviews and solo episodes. I'm your host, Ellyce Fulmore, and today I am so excited to introduce our guest, Lexa, who many of you probably know as the Avocado Toast Budget on social media. Lexa is a queer personal finance coach and creator of the Avocado Toast Budget, otherwise known as the ATB. Her mission is to teach people how to save, pay off debt, invest, and finally feel confident with money. Honestly, Lexa is one of my favorite creators in the personal finance phase, and we are both queer and neurodivergent, so that makes me love her even more. And she has just done such an incredible job of cultivating a safe space online where you can come and learn about money or talk about what you're struggling with without judgment. Lexa and I have very similar values when it comes to personal finance, so I just absolutely love this conversation and I know that you will too. We chat about so many things in this interview, such as navigating guilt and shame around money, creating and finding safe spaces online, how toxic relationships impact your finances, and how to financially protect yourself, combining finances with a partner, normalizing money conversations, and how ADHD affects your money. There's literally so much good stuff in this episode. I do want to give a quick trigger warning for this episode as we'll be discussing topics around emotional abuse, abusive relationships, and financial trauma. But I will also remind you during the episode so that you know when to stop listening. Lexa has so much value to share, so I'm just going to stop talking and we'll get into the episode. Hi there. Hi, I'm Sydney. My name is Rebecca. I'm an autistic kid woman. I'm Jane. I'm a first generation Lapina. I am a single mom and a survivor of domestic abuse. I am an ADHD plus sized millennial on the autism spectrum and Add creating other problems in itself. Even though I bring in decent money, I struggle with staying ahead of everything. I am now struggling to pay off my debt. My traumatic brain injury means that it's hard for me to concentrate long enough to sort out my finances. The hardest time managing my finances, my parents were never able to teach me. I love my Starbucks habit and I'm not giving it up. Hi Alexa, I cannot tell you how incredibly excited I am to have you on the podcast. I think that we just have such similar values when it comes to money and honestly, just like life and we align on so many things. So I am just so excited to have this conversation with you. Yes, I am so excited to be here. I think it's going to be amazing. I always just feel like at home talking to you and I think that every time I see you post something I'm like, we are on the same wavelength, so I think it's going to be awesome. Yes. I agree. For all the listeners, this is probably going to be the only finance experts that we have on the podcast this season. So I'm very excited. And I imagine that we have a lot of crossover in our communities. So I'm sure that there's a lot of listeners who already follow you and already know who you are. But for those of you that don't know Lexa yet, would you be able to just give us a little bit of background on who you are and what you do? Yes. So my name is Alexa. I run Avocado Budget. I also call it the ATV because the original name is very long to say loud. And it is personal finance platform that teaches millennials and Gen Z. How does it feel more confident with money without any of the shame or guilt that often comes with having those conversations about money and the debt that we have? I am queer. I'm nerdivergent. My pronouns are she her. And I try to incorporate that into everything that I do and especially the ATV. Yes. I love that. I love the fellow queer neuro divergent folks that talk to you. And I know that so much. I feel like both of our audiences are also clear and neurodivergent, so everyone's going to appreciate this. We are very represented, and I love it. Yes. So I know that you came kind of like a similar. Well, similar, but not background as me where you didn't come from a finance like education or traditional education. So can you talk a little bit more about what you used to do prior and how did you delve into being in the personal finance online space? Yeah. So my background has nothing to do with finance. I actually got my master's degree in behavioral psychology. And actually for my undergrad, I was originally double majoring in psychology and then business. And I took one intro to business class and halfway through realized that I absolutely hated it. And I thought I wanted to be like a business owner, but in the psychology field, like having my own private practice. And I was like, if I need a business trainer to do that, I'm not doing it. So I dropped that. And then Funnily enough, now running a business is the main part of my job, but it doesn't feel the same as it did back down. So, yeah, psychology was my main focus. I really thought I knew what I wanted to do with my life. And then I graduated and turned 25 the same day that everything shut down in the US because of the pandemic. When is your birthday? March 14. Oh, my gosh. Mine March 10. It was like the same thing. Yeah. I was coming back from a birthday trip, and it was like some of my friends had not come to the birthday because of the pandemic. And I didn't realize how serious it was at the time. And then I was supposed to go to a hockey game, and the NHL got shut down. And I was like, wait, what? And then I'm back. People were wearing masks at the airport, and then I landed, got laid off for my part time job. And I was like, oh, okay. This is like a real thing. This is happening. Yes. It was so surreal, but I really think everything in 2020, like, five days made a huge four. Five days made a huge difference. So my birthday was, like, on the tail end. So I was packed and getting ready for a trip to go travel to celebrate everything, celebrating graduating my master's degree. And it was still during that time that it was like, should we cancel? Should we not? It's starting to pop up here. And then by the end of the day, it was like we were getting in, locked down. Everything was getting shut down. And it was so I mean, life changing for everyone, but just weird, like, having this time where I thought I had everything figured out, and I thought this was the first day of the rest of my life. And then it was like purple. Yeah. And now I'm so faithful because I can't imagine doing anything else, but I don't think had that not happened, because I also got laid off very recently after that, I don't think had any of those things been different, that I would be where I am right now. Yeah. I feel the same way. I always say I don't think I would have ever grown my business at this speed or even gone into it in this way had I not been almost like, I don't want to say not, like, forced into it, but it was the only thing I could do. I was like, I love doing this. I have no other job to go to. People need to hear this information right now. So this is what I'm going to talk about. And then I don't think I would have had the courage, honestly, to jump into it like that if I was still working at my other job, because it's almost like that safety net for me of like, I can just kind of do it sometimes or like, when I'm comfortable. And then during the time, I was like, I have to be there and show up for people and do this. Cool. Yeah. It's such a weird experience, like, going through something that's so awful and horrible and traumatic. But at the same time, I know for me, it led to so many crazy opportunities and forced me to grow in a lot of ways that I don't know what have happened had it not been for the pandemic. Yes. Living in that dual reality of recognizing how traumatic these last few years have been, and I'm sure none of us have even processed all of that yet, and we won't know the extent of that trauma for who knows how long. Yeah. But also seeing how all of that change got us to where we are right now, and I'm very thankful for that. But I also know I hadn't started the ATV before the Pandemic. I actually started it started my own personal finance journey. I had dabbled in budgeting and stuff, but it wasn't until I got laid off and I was sitting at home and had nothing else to do that I really started to turn around with finances and started to review my relationship with money. And I didn't start the ATV as what I thought was going to be my job. I thought I had a plan. I didn't see it going anywhere. I was, like, in that ADHD, hyper fixation mode of, like, super really into budgeting, and I knew I was annoying everyone around me, so I wanted a chance to be able to talk about it. So I started a blog and then started posting on Tik Tok. And as both of us know, that kind of can be a very wild ride of very quickly growing on social media and suddenly having to make decisions about what you want your life and your business to look like. And it just kind of all spiraled from there. Yeah. I mean, I very much relate to the TikTok just taking off, and, like, I don't know, I'm still catching up to, like, what happened. Absolutely. I was actually just thinking about this a couple of weeks ago that I remember because really most of my growth happened, like September to December. But really, it was like November, end of November, end of December. And I remember in that time frame processing it. But now looking back at it, I grew from zero to 400,000 followers in, like, three months. And I don't think there was a way for my brain to process what that really meant until it kind of slowed down a little bit. And I was able to look back and be like, Whoa, a lot changed in a very short amount of time. Yeah. That's so funny that it was almost the same time for me. Like, October was when my first video went viral, and then it was like, I had a video go viral, like October, November, December. And it was just like, I honestly don't feel like I've processed it because it's funny because I get way more excited or I guess I understand it more when I grow on Instagram. Like, when I hit ten K on Instagram, I felt like I was like, oh, my God, so many people. I can't believe this. And I really understood it because my Instagram has been such a slow, steady growth. Whereas Tik Tok, I'm like, there's almost half a million people, and there's a disconnect in my brain. I feel like I'm still talking to five people it's hard for our brains to wrap around. And I actually think I remember the first time I ever followed you because we did grow like we had similar, like, not perfectly similar platforms, but I felt like I could relate to you and I felt like I could relate to the content that you were putting out. And it was content similar to what I wanted to put out. And I remember watching you grow as I did. And it was just so cool. It was almost easier for me to process watching your growth, for me to watch my growth because it feels so real when we spend our days talking to a camera or a computer or phone, and it's hard to picture the reach that a platform like TikTok has. When it's hard to picture that many people listening to you, when it's just you and technology in a room. I know, imagine 500,000 people in a crowd. I'm just like, oh, gosh, I can't imagine that too long, right? I don't want to do that. That's too much. Okay, so you mentioned your queer and neurodivergent and also touched a little bit on your ADHD and how that impacted the growth of ATV. But I'd love for you to expand on how your identity or the major pieces of your identity that you've mentioned or maybe you haven't mentioned yet and how those have impacted your relationship with money. Yeah. So I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 24 going on 25. So really, it's only been like a year, a little over a year for me. And I figured I had it before then, but I didn't know a lot about it. And I didn't really realize until, looking back on it, a major impact that I had on my finances. Because for me, I grew up in a family that we didn't talk about money, especially if you were really struggling with it or if you have debt, it was something that you just figured it out, pushed it under the rug, pretend everything's okay. And because of that, when I went off and went to College and started managing my own money, I didn't know how to do that. And no one in my family was talking about struggling with debt, struggling with not knowing how to pay bills and get groceries and also be a full time student. So I just thought, like, everyone else is figuring it out. So I need to because no one else is talking about struggling. That must mean we're all fine. Yeah. So I didn't really open up to anyone and let them know that I didn't know what I was doing because I thought if anyone knew that I would seem like a failure or stupid or lazy or whatever. So I somehow managed to get by until my senior year of College. And then that was when I didn't recognize it as what it was then. But I'd met the person who I would be in a relationship with for four years, and I was a very emotionally abusive relationship. So that was kind of happening. And I was graduating from College with this idea of what I wanted to do, but not really. My whole life, I thought I knew what I wanted, and it was kind of changing. So that felt like a whirlwind to me. And I also was struggling with undiagnosed and unmedicated ADHD. So I very quickly borrowed into, like, $20,000 of credit card debt, and I really just didn't process it as it was happening. I just kept telling myself that it'll be okay, I'll pay it off, I'll figure it out. I've gotten this far, so it should be fine. And then kind of, like talking about my financial rock bottom. So that was January of 2020, right before the world changed. I was at work, and I went to a start. My car, it wouldn't start. I checked my bank account. I had less than $10 in my bank account. And I was like, okay, I can just put it on my credit card. I'll figure it out later. But my credit card was maxed out. That was the third time I maxed it out. And that was kind of like my moment of this obviously isn't working. Something here needs to kind of change. And it was just like a lot. But I didn't know how to manage that because all of the personal finance education I've ever gotten, which was minimal at best, really revolves around this idea of, like, sprinting toward debt freedom, giving up all of the things that you love, don't eat out, have a very strict budget. And I had tried that, and obviously it wasn't working. And I thought that was a reflection of me. I thought, this is supposed to work. And I didn't understand that it was because that was never going to work for me. That was never going to work for my ADHD, the kind of life that I live, how I want my relationship with money to be. And it took a while for me to start to undo that, but it was really hard. I spent so much time talking about the shame and guilt that we feel around finances, because that was what stopped me from getting help, reaching out, talking about this. And a lot of that had to do with me not understanding how my ADHD played a role in my ability to budget in a way that works for me and how it played into my impulse spending and me losing things all of the time and having to repurchase them. And just all these little things that I had no idea were represented by my ADHD and all of these other factors in my life. I thought that it was a reflection of me and my worth. Yeah, I relate to everything you're saying so much because it was like, it's so funny. Like, that sound, that's trending on TikTok right now that's like, is this play about us that's going through my head right now? Because I'm like, I had the same experience growing up where my parents did not talk about money at all. And it's funny because they're actually very good at managing their finances. And I've done such a great job, but we did not talk about anything. I've told this story before, but when I applied for student loans in University, you had to put in your parents income information. And my dad took the laptop from me, went to a different room to put in his income, and came back. And at this time, I'm 18. I'm like, I think I can know how much money you make. It's okay. And I ended up getting denied from student loans because my parents made too much money, even though I didn't live at home and they weren't financially supporting my education. And I was like, okay. It was really hard, like, not having anyone that's telling you it's okay. Or like, people go through these normal struggles and no one telling you that having debt for University is normal and that a lot of people can't afford to go through University without having debt and all of these things. I know I felt just, like, so much shame and so alone. And I felt like my parents are people who I could usually come to with things that I'm struggling with. But with money, I never felt like I could because we never talked about it. So I'm like, how do I even bring up the conversation of like, Hi, I'm struggling. The only thing they ever said about money was, don't go into debt and save every dollar you can. So when I went into debt, I just spiraled because I was like, what do you do? Yeah. Like, they're going to be so disappointed in me. Yeah, it was hard. And same with what you mentioned about the undiagnosed ADHD. Like, I felt the same way in that it must be me and I just don't have enough willpower or I'm just not motivated enough, or I just can't get it together enough and just, like, constantly beating myself up when it's like you said, it's something that was never going to work for me. Like, trying to follow that traditional budgeting tool that just wasn't good for my brain. It just was never going to be the right thing. But I always thought it was like me that had to change instead of examining the tools I was using or, like, the education that I was getting and how that could change. Yeah. And looking at how much impacts our finances, because I took it as like, this is representative of my work because looking back on it, I'm like, of course I was struggling. I was in an abusive relationship. I had undiagnosed ADHD, and I was really struggling with depression and anxiety at the time. I was getting my master's degree. So I was going to school full time, working full time and doing supervision hours. Of course, I remember clearly the first time that I went back through and evaluated my spending the month before. And I was horrified because I had spent$900 on DoorDash or like, food delivery. And I was like, all of these things I would never say to anyone else. Of course, I was like, saying to myself all of these horrible things about what that meant about me and my funding and how can I be so smart and feel like I'm an intelligent person but then do this and not even realize it? And when I took a step back, I was like, of course I spent a lot of money on eating out. Like, who has the time? I could barely get up and function and complete everything I needed to do. Nonetheless. Then after hours of working and doing homework and doing my internship, coming home and grocery shopping, cooking a meal, cleaning up after that meal, having to plan for a meal, it's just easier to spend 25 $30 and have food delivered to you in your lap. Like, at least I'll eat. Yeah, but that taboo. And shame around money kind of tells us that that's not okay and that we should be not spending our money on those things and all of that, the narrative around what's okay to spend your money on and what's not and what's considered like a waste of money and just perpetuates that shame that we feel around, like, certain purchases when what you said just makes so much sense. Obviously you were struggling and obviously it makes way more sense for you to order food than, I

don't know, stay up till 02: 21:27

00 a.m. Trying to make a meal and then being exhausted the next day and then being stressed out about it. Yeah, it just makes so much more sense. But it's something that again, because we don't talk about it enough. People think that they're alone in doing that and that they're doing something wrong. I'd love for you to expand on why you feel like shame is one of the biggest barriers that people face when it comes to their money. Like, what you're talking about. I thought that since no one was talking about money, that it must mean that everyone else has this figured out and that it's a reflection of who I am and only the choices that I'm making. There must be something wrong with me that I've gotten into that and that I don't know how to get out and I don't know how to budget in the way that I think that I'm supposed to. And because of that, I knew that I had people in my life that I could trust. Like you were saying with your parents, my parents are people who generally I can come to and talk about things. But the idea of telling, especially my mom, that I was in debt horrified me because I was like, oh, my God, what is she going to think about me? Is this going to destroy every idea that she has of the success that I've built and where I'm at? Because what if she knew it was like this dirty thing that I was hiding way back in that corner? And I thought that if I started talking about my debt or if I reached out, even if I didn't have people who could financially support me just to emotionally support me, I thought if they knew that it would just crumble everything and crumble this idea of who I was. And I was shocked to find out once I finally did start talking about it, that instead of being met with more shame and guilt and what I thought was going to be negative reactions from people, instead it was just a bunch of people being like, oh, my God, me too. This is what I'm going through. I completely relate. Or I'm hiding this debt from someone, or I'm struggling with living paycheck to paycheck. And almost every single person who I talked about my debt to and about my financial journey had a story of their own, but they were so afraid to share. And it was that moment that I was like, oh, we're all almost like, pretending. Just kind of exploding here in this space of pretending we know what's going on because we're afraid of what everyone else will think, but everyone else is also afraid pretending. Yes. And as soon as someone opens up and creates that space for that conversation, it just explodes in the best way. And I've just talked to so many people both online and in my personal life that have opened up and said that those feelings of shame and guilt are why they don't talk about it, why they don't reach out for help. And I really feel like that's like a big barrier for the majority of people to take that first step into figuring out a way that's going to work for them. Because if we feel like it's on us and we should know how to do it, of course we're not going to feel like we should even go out and look for help. Because somehow, even though we were never taught this, we're supposed to just not know how to do it. Exactly. I know it's so interesting because I come from a physical fitness background. Like, I did a kinesiology degree. And I always think of how no one expects you to know how to train yourself in the gym. Right. Or follow some sort of eating plan for a specific purpose. Like if you're doing weight lifting or whatever that looks like it's not expected that we just automatically necessarily know how to do it. Like expected. Oh, if you want to do Olympic weightlifting, you're going to hire a coach to teach you because no one knows how to do that naturally or even just like working out for lifestyle. It's like that's not something that we're taught. So you need someone to show you how to use, like a spot rack or whatever. But when it comes to money, it's something that we're apparently just all supposed to have been born with this innate ability to manage our money. It's so strange to me that we can look at certain things and understand, oh, there's professionals out there that are trained, that can teach other people how to do so. But then when it comes to money, we don't apply that same thing, which I just find very interesting. And I love that you brought up that as you've been talking about it with your community, the ATB community and online, everyone can just resonate because I feel like for me, that was the biggest tool that helped me overcome a lot of the guilt and shame was that sense of community and those other people being like, I've experienced that exact same thing, too. And I think it really comes down to just having that safe space where you feel comfortable and seen and heard and understood, and you can actually feel safe enough to ask questions because otherwise you're just sitting in shame in that space. I don't know what to do. So I'd love to hear from you how you feel. Like specifically the ATV community has maybe played a role in overcoming your own guilt and shame and how you've worked on cultivating a safe space within that community. Like, what are some things that you've done to ensure that it's a safe space for people to come and talk about their money? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Since the beginning, I feel like whatever positive impact I've had with the ATV, the community itself has given me so much more than I think I could ever give back. And I think a lot of that is because, like I said, I didn't go into it as a professional. I didn't go into it as someone who was like, I have all of the answers. Here it is. I started the blog and started posting on TikTok because I was like, when I went to go search how to budget on YouTube, it was a bunch of videos by Abramsie. So I couldn't really do. And I said and I was like, I know these conversations are being had, but I can't figure out where these people are. So I'm just going to start talking about it and talking about what I've learned and what I'm struggling with. And hopefully a couple of people can relate. And like I said, I had started with my financial journey, figuring out how to budget in January, laid off in April. And then by September, I was posting about it on TikTok. And really just in a way of like, let's just start having these conversations, especially Millennials and Gen Z and people who I felt like were my people because I have seen that the positive impact of talking about it in my real life. And I wanted to be able to have that community online as well. So I was still going through my own shit. Can we pass on your oh, yeah. Okay. Going through my own shit and figuring out my finances and still deconstructing some of that shame and having that community there of people to just say, I can relate to this. Thank you so much for talking about it. For opening up these conversations and sharing their own struggles with me has helped remind me that we're all human and we're all doing the best that we can. And that includes me, because oftentimes it's a lot easier for me to extend Grace and patience and loving kindness to other people. But it's very hard for me to extend that to myself. And this community has just been incredible in letting me kind of figure things out and talk about things as I learn them and create that space that we all feel like we can learn and be human and make mistakes together. And it's okay. It's all going to be okay. And we're all doing the best that we can with the tools and education that we've been given. I love it. I love it so much. It's such an incredible community that you've created. And I can really see that just from visiting your page and seeing the comment section. And it's just such a welcoming, comforting space. So you should be very proud. I hope you're very proud of what you've created. It's incredible. Thank you so much. You're welcome. So what advice would you give someone who is currently in that space of, like, sitting in that guilt and shame and is afraid to take the first step or doesn't know how to take the first step? Yeah. So for me, two big things can happen if you feel like you have someone in your life that is a safe person that you can open up to, just taking a step of even testing the waters, mentioning something about debt, mentioning something about something you're struggling with, even if it's not like even if you're worried about what they'll think of it's personal, make up an imaginary friend and talk about them and the struggles they're going through. Because I think a lot of us were really afraid to break down that wall because it is scary because we don't know how someone is going to react and it's so personal that. What if they do blame us? What if we get more shame and guilt? That can be really hard. But if you have someone in your life, it can be truly life changing to feel like there's someone else, even if they can't completely relate that you can just talk to about those things. But I also know that sometimes we just don't have anyone that we feel like is a safe person that we can come to, and we're just not ready to talk about those things. So I think finding communities like my community, like your community, like so many other in the last year, I have watched the personal finance face grow in a way that I am so thankful for and so proud of, because I do feel like there's so many amazing creators that are trying to create this space where we can come and be real and a human and talk about what we're struggling with and just immersing yourself in that a little bit. Following a few people who you feel like you can trust can start to break down some of that shame and guilt. And I think that there's a lot of power and just feeling like you're not alone. Yes. It's such an amazing first step of just like that release of, wow, it's not me. It's not just me. It's not my fault. And if all these other people are feeling the same way, obviously there's something else going on here. It's not just my problem. And yeah, I think that I agree in the personal finance space has grown in such incredible ways. And if you're listening to this right now and my community or Alexis community just doesn't feel like quite the right fit for you, there are so many other incredible creators find that space that you feel really safe in, and you feel like your story is understood and seen and heard. There's so many amazing creators out there that will kind of fill in all of the gaps and really just bring so many diverse voices to the table. So I think it's so incredible. I love how much the community is changing, and I'm really excited to see what happens in the next couple of years and how much that kind of shifts. So cool. And I love the tip about also starting a money conversation with someone and how you even said it doesn't have to be about your intimate situation. I often tell my clients even asking someone what credit card they use and like or where they like to put their savings or things like that, like just a general conversation or what are your goals that you're working towards, things like that, to just start the conversation in a more casual way. And then if you feel that, like, you feel comfortable, it's a safe space, and you can start to maybe open up about, oh, I'm actually struggling right now with my own debt, and then it can kind of just open the door to those harder conversations. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So I want to take a turn a little bit in the interview. So I do just want to, at this point, give a trigger warning for the audience. So we're going to be diving into a little bit more about what you mentioned earlier on the episode of how part of your identity and experience that has impacted your finances was being in an abusive relationship and leaving that relationship. So this is a trigger warning for emotional abuse, abusive relationships, and financial trauma. If you would like to exit the episode now, you can, but we are going to kind of dive into that. So, Lexi, I know you've just recently begun opening up about this on your platforms and on social media about your experience getting out of an emotionally abusive relationship. And if you're feeling comfortable right now, I'd love to touch on how the emotional abuse and manipulation that you felt or that you experienced. How did that actually impact your finances? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So a little bit of background. So I had said I started that relationship my senior year of College and then back in July of 2021. So eight months ago was when I finally gotten out of it. So I've been in a relationship for about three and a half years. We lived together, but we only partially combined our finances. And I will say one thing that gave me some stability was that they were very good with finances way before I even was. And so I think for a while, I didn't think that that abuse and that relationship and that manipulation had much effect on my finances until I was kind of able to get out and have some space from that. And I realized just how much of an impact it had, whether it was in a direct or an indirect way, because I think a lot of times we have this picture in our head from whatever we're taught in school or books or via media about what abuse looks like. And that wasn't what my situation looks like. So for the longest time, I didn't recognize it as what it was, and I didn't realize the emotional impact that it had had. I was actually just editing a video where I was talking about, I think, just my relationship with money and kind of how I've gotten to where I am with the ATV that I had filmed on YouTube. And it triggered a memory of mine about how when I went to go quit my day job to do the ATV full time, I was still in that relationship. And I remember having a conversation with them. And the way that I had always praised it was I had to have six months of an emergency fund to convince them to let me quit my job. And at the time, that seemed like totally normal. Like, this is the person I'm in a relationship with. This is how things should go. And then I started kind of breaking down why I felt like I had to convince them that that was something that I could do if I could continue to make sure that I was financially stable and that we were taken care of and that I was taken care of. But it was just kind of normal to me. But then I was looking back on a time that they had up. And I came home one day and they said that they had quit their job. I had no idea that that was going to happen. I know that transition between quitting a job and getting another job can be so difficult. And there was a lot of mental health issues there. But for them, it was like, very obvious this is something I'm going to do. You're going to have to deal with it. At the time, I was really still struggling with my finances. And like I said, they were very good with theirs. But I remember them saying like, hey, I don't have a lot of money left over. Can we put stuff on your credit card and I'll pay you back? And I was like, yeah, that's fine with me. If you're at a point where you don't have any money left, which for me not like my bank account is drained. Then I'll put stuff on my credit card, and then it came out that they still had about $30,000 sitting in the bank that could have been used as an emergency fund. And we were putting stuff on my credit card. And I just thought that was like normal. And it kind of one of those things that it's not like they still pay me back. I was never left in a situation where I couldn't afford to get by because of that abuse and those actions directly. It was just these little things that had convinced me that it's not like gut feeling inside of myself. It said something right here. I stopped believing it, and it really impacted my mental health and what I thought I was worth and the autonomy that I felt like I had over my decisions, what I did with my finances, my life, my time. And I think that money is so hard to talk about, and we feel so much of that shame because it's kind of like the intersection of everything. And it's kind of the same way with abuse or being in a situation where you're in a relationship that there's a lot of manipulation happening, that even if money isn't the direct thing that's being used for the abuse, it still is being impacted by it. Yeah, I think you just touched on it by saying it's the intersection of everything. It's so hard to even like, even me asking you that question. It's so hard to even pull out all of the ways that that relationship impacted it because you even just said it affected your sense of self and it affected your mental health, and it affected your autonomy that you felt, which all indirectly will also affect your finances. Right. If your mental health is doing first, it's going to be harder for you to manage your finances. You're focusing on just feeling good and surviving rather than taking extra time to learn about money and not feeling that autonomy. Like even just mentioned quitting your job to do ATB full time. It's like you felt like you couldn't make that decision just freely because of that manipulation that you felt. And I think that it's important that you touched on your kind of view of abuse and how it didn't originally you didn't feel like that was what you were experiencing. Because I feel very similarly that my kind of education or awareness on abuse has been very much focused around, like, physical abuse or horrible abuse and things like that. And I myself was in an emotionally abusive relationship when I was 18 with my first real relationship. And I didn't know for like literally years after two years later, I was like, wait a second down process all these things. And yeah, it's something that's not really talked about enough. And we already talked about in this interview, like how taboo money is and talking about money and how much shame there is. And then when you add a romantic partner into that, it's just like another layer of like, what is this person going to think of me if I start talking about money? And then how do you navigate those conversations when you both have completely different ideas on what finance looks like and all of these things I just can't even imagine? It must be hard for you to even pull out those things now because everything's so intertwined, absolutely. In the same way that the abuse impacts finances, your finances impact that abusive relationship. Like you were saying, like not realizing it for a while. I honestly didn't come to terms with it fully until after I had left the relationship. But I remember about two years in we were living together because I guess another thing was that in my experience, I was love bombs and fucked into a relationship very quickly where within a couple of months I felt like it was very serious. I couldn't leave. I had built this life with this person and my whole life with this person, we had moved in together. And I remember Googling how to know if you're in an emotionally abusive relationship, which probably should have been red flag number one. But for me, it was just like I was so gasoline that I felt kind of just crazy and kind of like I couldn't trust myself. But I remember my first thing thinking was I was reading down the list and I related to so many of them, but I was like, where would I go? I have so much credit card debt, I don't make enough money to move out. And rent had already skyrocketed since we had moved in together. And kind of like we had a cheaper place to live. I had no idea how I was going to be able to financially afford to leave that relationship. And I was in a place where, I'm sure looking back on it, I could have somehow made it work. But that thought and that adding that extra fear to it kind of shut down that conversation in my brain. And I think that's something that I'm so glad we're starting to talk a little bit more about. It's so much more nuanced than just, like, realizing what you're in and leaving. And even if you feel like it's safe in one way to leave, it might not be safe financially to leave or emotionally or physically. And your finances play a huge role in that as well. And honestly, I think that one of the only reason I was able to take a step back and leave that relationship when I did was because I had a lot of financial privilege once I figured out my finances and changed my relationship with money where I was able to leave and I had a home with my mom that I could go stay out for a month and take a step back and feel like I had a safe space to leave that relationship. And I had money saved up because I pretty much just moved across the country with whatever fit in my little car and my cat. And that was all I had. So I had to spend money like furnishing an apartment, getting a new apartment, figuring out how to live on a single income rather than a dual income. And had I not quit my job and had my own business where I could work remote, had I not had a savings, had I not felt financially confident, I don't know if I would have left that relationship. I don't know if I would have been able to. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that and have that conversation because for the longest time I wasn't able to leave. And I think that played a big role in it. Yeah, I agree. I think that's a huge feeling of safety that maybe a lot of people don't have. That's another form of like, oh, I feel safe enough to move across the country and get a new apartment and be able to do those things. And when you're already feeling like you're in an unsafe space kind of everyday, not having the finances to fall back on, it's like, yeah, what are you going to do? It's like, how am I going to survive leaving this relationship? How am I going to be able to pay for the things I need to pay for? And not to mention if someone is already struggling with credit card debt or something like that, where they feel like the thing that's keeping them afloat is their partner, and that can be extremely scary situation, what advice would you give to someone who is currently trying to leave an abusive relationship but doesn't feel like they maybe have the financial means to do so or are fearful about those financial repercussions of that decision? Looking back on it, I think one of the biggest things for me that helped, and this was definitely like, it's not going to apply to everyone since everyone's situation is so different. But I've always found peace in feeling like I'm not alone. So just consuming content from other people who I felt like I could relate to, watching YouTube videos about relationships and manipulation and asking these questions. And if you have a therapist and you have access to that, that is a huge benefit. But I also know that not everyone does. But I think for me, that first step was, like, just feeling like I wasn't alone, learning how to trust myself enough to know that what I was going through wasn't okay and it wasn't normal. And, yeah, just like opening up that space for myself and then if you are able to for me, I kind of always had it in the back of my mind, even though I hadn't come to terms with the fact that I was leaving yet. And it wasn't kind of like a plan. It was just something that kind of happened because again, I really didn't recognize it as emotional abuse at the time. I just knew that there were some things that kind of popped up some red flags for me. I had started saving for myself and having that cushion and knowing that I wanted to if I was able to save up some money so that I could have some more freedom and move or leave or get access to resources that I needed if I was able to. And for me, building up that emergency fund, building up that savings when possible, was so helpful in being able to help me with that freedom. But I also recognize that it's a lot easier said than done. And I know from experience that's a lot easier said than done. But if possible, it can be life changing. Yeah. Okay. What would you say is, like, the first step for someone and let's say that their finances are combined so they're already feeling like it's kind of hard to step away. Like, what would you suggest as, like a good first step that someone can start doing to try and build up a safety fund to be able to leave that relationship? Yeah. So for me, I've never fully combined finances with a partner, but I've actually talked about this with a few of my friends who have fully combined finances. And I know that already in healthy relationships, having that conversation about finances and how you're going to split things up and changing anything with finance is so hard. But if you are able to having a conversation about even potentially just giving each other fun money, having like$$50 to $25 or whatever is reasonable for you and your finances and your relationship that is your own, I think it's so important if you are able to get to that point in your relationship, then you can start to kind of like set some money aside for yourself and start to try to establish some sort of like financial security for yourself. And I know that's not always possible, but sometimes just having that conversation that's like, hey, I want you to have your own money that you can do with however you want. And I want me to too, even if it's just a little bit. And establishing some of that independence can be really helpful and also just like really empowering for you as well to feel like you have some control. I agree. I'm a big fan of having separate kind of allowances or like cars where you do your own free spending, even having fully combined finances, having that little bit of separateness, because then you just feel more comfortable in the decisions that you're making. And like you said, it's not always possible for everyone's situation. And maybe you're not there in your relationship to be able to have that conversation safely. But if you are, it's something I agree that can just help with that feeling of autonomy and freedom in your finances. And another thing I feel like is something that is potentially something that other people could do is having a portion of your paycheck that can get automatically transferred into like a high yield savings account so that you know that money is going there before it's split between you and your partner. And you can even do that directly from your job if your job offers. That a lot of corporate jobs. You have the ability to put multiple direct deposits and even like $5 a paycheck or something like that is like a great start to be able to have that little nest egg of money just to help you feel even just like a little bit more confident in being able to leave. Even if you maybe don't have as much money as you'd like. It's still like that little bit of like I have something I can do something and I can take the first step. Thank you so much for opening up about your experience, because I don't feel like I've seen very much of this conversation online and I think it's super important. And for anyone who's listening who's going through a situation, even if they're not at the point where their relationship is emotionally abusive, but maybe just they're not having these conversations about their finances. I think it's just such an important conversation to have. So I just wanted to say thank you for being open about that. Yeah, I was going to say the exact same thing. Even if you're not in that situation where even if you're in a very healthy relationship and you fully combined finances or you're wanting to change up something about your finances, your financial goals, or you're even just like wanting to start that conversation, because I don't think that it's a hard conversation. Even if you're in a healthy relationship. I don't think that you have to feel bad if you're in what you would consider to be a very healthy relationship and loving relationship. And you still don't feel comfortable having those conversations with a partner because it's hard no matter what. Like, these are just hard conversations. And one of the most frequently asked questions I get about navigating finances with a partner, talking about finances with a partner. And I think that no matter what, even if you're in a relationship that you never plan on leaving or you're not actively trying to figure out how to leave or how to feel safer and having that allowance, like you said, or having the direct deposit that each person gets their own money that they can manage in whatever way they want to spend on whatever they want, it can give you so much freedom and independence and also just like, take off some of the pressure of finances because I feel like we think that we're told you fully combined, especially if you're married. Like, oh, you're married, what's mine is yours, everything is ours. But just feeling like you have a little bit of control over your own money. It can also take the pressure off of if you're having arguments about where money is going or how someone is spending money, it can really alleviate a lot of those little fights or TIFF if both of you just feel like you have the autonomy to spend some money however you want to spend it. Yeah, I agree. Especially when you're figuring out who each other is and how you like to spend your money and value money, like having that space at the beginning, if you do eventually want to combine finances, like giving yourself a space to really understand each other and your financial goals and your financial viewpoints, because someone might have something they spend money on that they value very highly where the other partner is like, why are you spending money on that? And having that tension at the very beginning of just like combining right away can just add so much added extra stress to the relationship, just having that little bit of space. And something else I want to add is even if you don't feel like your relationship is ever going to end and this is like the person you're going to be with forever, I think it's so important to talk about a separation plan in anything. I mean, that's my logical brain here. But I'm like, no one wants to believe the relationship is going to end, but I think it's important to have that conversation early on because if you do separate, you don't want to be in that space of like, what are we going to do? And now on top of everything that's happening, you breaking up. You now have to also think about this. Whereas if you have that plan in place of if we break up, this is what we would do. I just feel like that is really helpful as well. So that would be another thing that I would like throw in there just like having that conversation, even though it's not fun to have. Yeah, it's definitely not fun to have. And I think that that's because there's so much stigma around. Like, we attach combining finances or planning to be with someone for forever and not pretending like there's any other possibility as, like, the most true form of love and trust. And I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because I wanted to add that just like separating finances, having separate finances, having money of your own, planning for what if this ends, doesn't mean that you love the person less, doesn't mean that you trust them less. In my personal experience, I have felt more loved and respected when we both can come to the table and say, hey, we really actively love and want what's best for each other right now. So let's stand for in this healthy space, what could happen in case down the road, we're in a space that isn't so healthy. I want to make sure we're both protected in that case. And for me, that feels like love and trust and respect as well. Yeah, I agree. Okay. I feel like we're just really in this couple finance conversation. So I want to kind of throw another question in there. What would you say to someone who is maybe playing more of, like, the complacent role in the finances in the relationship? So maybe isn't exactly sure what's going on isn't involved in the financial decisions. How would you advise them to get involved? What's the first step of initiating that conversation or initiating more like autonomy if one partner is kind of controlling the majority of the finances? Yeah. So for me, what I've found to work is, like we said, we all know that finances are a hard topic. So trying to spin it in the most positive way possible and trying to come to the table as open and real and wanting to work with your partner and making that very clear to them. So I really think that whether you're in a healthy relationship, whether you both control the finance, no matter how your finances are split up in your relationship, sitting down and just saying like, hey, I want to know, what are your financial goals? What are our financial goals, what are some of your dreams? And even if it's not finance related, because as soon as you open up that conversation in a positive light, have a glass of wine, get some takeout, start this positive conversation around money, it can help to open up more of like, hey, I'm so glad our goals align. I want to be able to help us get there. I want to be able to be an active role in this to make sure we're both reaching our dreams and our goals. And I think framing it in that way takes off some of the pressure from what a lot of money conversations can be, which is stressful and hard and especially if you're struggling with finances or especially if you don't know a lot about what's going on with the finances, it can help open up that conversation to lead to more autonomy, to lead to you feeling like more of an active participant in that. Yeah, I agree. I love that so much. And that's actually what my girlfriend and I have done, too, is like, we started with goal setting and vision boards. I found that that really helped with the reverse engineering of like, okay, these are our goals. So then how are we going to get there financially? Like, what decisions do we need to make? And then that opened up the discussion of savings and how are we using our credit cards and how do we want to combine if it makes sense to combine for this or for this or those types of conversations? So I love that you said that. I agree. I think having that positive spin on it at the beginning is just so important. And I love to do, like, money date nights. And I get a lot of my clients to do this, too. But I always say plan something like fun to do. And then it's just like you're just adding in the one task of looking at your money, but don't try not to make it the main event, especially at the beginning. So whether it's sitting down, watching your favorite TV show together or ordering takeout, having a nice meal or playing games, and then you set aside half an hour, an hour to talk about money. And so you just make the whole experience a little bit more fun and positive. Instead of it being like this, we're going to sit down at the table and talk about money. It's like very serious. Yes. Oh, my gosh, I love that because it takes off a lot of that stress and starts off on the right foot rather than being this very serious kind of stressful thing. I think setting that tone and trying to go into it, I love how you phrase it up, like starting off with the goals, the vision boards, the dreams, and then working backward from there, because I think we automatically kind of want to go into the nitty gritty, especially if we're stressed out about money and we want to start with where is each and every dollar going and why. But you've got to start with what the end goal is kind of or what some of your goals are and then work backwards from there. Otherwise it's just overwhelming. Yeah. And I mean, when you're in that survival mode of really stress and trying to figure out your finances, it's really hard to see more than like one step ahead because you're just thinking about how am I going to pay for this thing or how am I going to organize this and being able to kind of remove yourself and look at the bigger picture. I feel like this allows you to see more so of what decisions are going to make sense also not only to get you out of that situation, but also in the long run and see more of the big picture of decisions that you're making and how those impact later on. Because even if you're not struggling with your finances, even if you feel like you're doing good with your money, but if you're not, like, understanding how the decisions that you're making are leading to those goals that you want, then it's like hard. What happens is like three years pass and you're like, oh, I did want to go on this big trip, but I guess I haven't been putting money aside for it or things like that. I don't know. You just end up realizing that time passed so fast and where did it all go? Working backwards is like I find just such a good way to make sure that your goals are attainable and that you're actually making steps to kind of work towards those goals in a way that makes sense for your lifestyle and your budget and then just make you feel more, like, motivated and excited about it because you can see the progress every day or every month or those types of things. Yes. And then I make sure and I think that's an important thing to do. Even if you're not in a relationship, I still do all of those things. Like no matter how you're attacking your finances, looking at the big picture, and even if knowing your goals can change and life can change, but especially when you're trying to navigate finances as a partner, talking about those goals, having that kind of like more positive, laid back conversation also helps you to figure out where the commonalities are where you both share those goals. What does life look like for both of you, but also your separate personal goals as well. And that can help so much, especially if you're kind of like trying to figure out how to navigate having those harder conversations around money. Yes, completely agree. And one last thing I want to say before we go off of the conversation is if you're in a relationship right now and you're going to start having these many conversations, I just think one of the most important things is creating that safe space for the other person. And we've talked about it a lot already, but just remembering that everyone comes from different backgrounds and different experiences and different cultures, and there are different reasons why people view money in a certain way or spend their money in a certain way. And so I think when you're having those conversations, they're already so vulnerable and so hard and so just like really listening to your partner and having those conversations openly and with a lot of love and safety and really trying not to pass judgment in those conversations because not everyone was raised the same as you and has the same experience. So I think that that's really important. So just wanted to add that in there. I think we've covered so much amazing ground on so many different aspects of identity. I'm like, there's honestly so much we could talk about, but I want to kind of end off by talking about maybe the way that you have tried to embrace your identity more and both, like when it comes to money, but also just in your life in general, like these aspects of your identity that have helped your finances or also made it more difficult to manage your finances. How moving forward? Have you tried to embrace those more? Yeah. So one of the big things with me, especially with trying to navigate budgeting and being a personal finance creator while having ADHD, is exactly as you said, embracing that. I tried fighting it for so long. I tried making myself be like the quote unquote, ideal, perfect budget er, and it was never going to work for me. So I actually feel so much more confident with money and feel like I am on path to reaching my goals. Even though I have room in my budget for impulse spending and for overspending and recognizing that I'm probably going to stop caring about tracking my expenses for a while. All of my finances are automated, all of my savings and my bills, and separating between what I can spend money on. What is my free money to spend money on every month? Because I know I recognize myself that sometimes I'm going to be really excited about money and finances and my financial goals, and sometimes I'm just not. I used to think that it was a bad thing and that I just needed to suck it up, but it didn't work. So now I'm just prepare for that part of me and recognizing who I am and that loving myself means loving myself in every state and setting myself up for success, even when I am struggling with my ADHD or my depression and allowing myself to have finances that can add and flow and change along with how I add and flow and change. Yeah, I love it. I like to think of my finances as, like, organized chaos because it's like I have the automations too, and I've a thing set up that will keep me moving forward. But then how I spend my money is a little bit chaos, but it's okay because it's like my ADHD brain. So you mentioned that you have a little fun for impulse spending and room in your budget. So what does that actually look like? How do you kind of make space for that? I found that combining two different types of budgeting routines have worked best for me. So in an ideal world, on a day to day basis, I have what is called a zero based budget, which, if you know anything about the finance community, you might have heard of. I could explain it for days and days and days, but basically what it boils down to is just you assign every dollar that you have a job and that requires you therefore, to then track your spending. Sounds great in an ideal world, although sometimes that just doesn't happen. So on the back end of things, like I said, I also have my money automated. So any point in time, like my savings is automated, it automatically moves from my checking into a high yield savings account that's assigned different goals from there. And I also have that represented in, like, my zero based budget. The reason that I kind of have those two is that I have my automated finance and my budget to fall back on for those times that I just forget to track my spending. Or I just couldn't care less about returning to my budget every day because life happens. Sometimes I just don't want to have to worry about money. And I feel like that's the whole point, right? We spend the time and energy to budget and to control to figure out what we want our finances to do for us so that hopefully we then don't have to spend every waking moment worrying about and thinking about money. And for me, I do that. But then I also have I call them my oh shit categories, and I have not one, but two oh shit categories, and one of them covers my day to day kind of overspending. Maybe I usually have a 24 hours rule where I have to wait 24 hours before I buy something on Amazon. But to be perfectly honest, sometimes I don't abide by that rule. Sometimes I end up buying

something random at 03: 1:06:30

00 a.m. And so I have to use that kind of extra money every month to cover that. Or if I forget about a bill or forget about something that I signed up for and that money is there to cover that. And then I also have a second, like, oh shit category, but it's more like an Oshit saving fund that I put money into every month for those bigger things that maybe there was a bigger impulse, like purchase, or maybe there was something that I completely just forgot about a bigger expense. Or I have to, like, I just lost my fourth Kindle. Can't find it. It's the fourth Kindle. It's sad. This is my reality. So I'll probably have to use that to purchase a fifth Kindle, and then maybe this time I'll put a tracker on it or something. Yeah, just some things that I normally would feel really bad about. But knowing that I cut back in certain ways. I drive the same car that I've driven since College that probably should be upgraded, but I don't really care about cars, and I don't really care about shoes. Those are two things that I don't spend money on that someone else might value. And I save money on those things so that then I can spend money and prepare for some of those more unexpected expenses and spend money on the things that do bring you joy. And that makes my life a little bit easier to function. Yes. Oh, my God. Just so everyone knows, there's no rules to finance how you do it. So are your oh, shit accounts? Are those on top of, like, do you have a separate emergency fund, or is that operating as your do you have a separate fund? I've got a lot of extra savings. I have it set up in a way that I have my emergency funds, which just kind of like even I keep it outside of my zero based budget because that's just like truly. For example, when I left my relationship and then had to completely restart, that was what I used my emergency fund for. I had a new car fund, and I had a moving fund that I was able to kind of take a little bit of money from, but that I had considered to be like, this is a big life event I didn't plan for. This is what that money is there for. But I also have a lot of different stinking funds, which those are basically just like all of the non monthly expenses that you want to pay for on a monthly basis. So things like that bill medical, a new car, car repairs, and separating those in my high heels savings account. Another one of those is like my second category or some of those other things that we kind of forget about those expenses because they don't happen on a month to month basis. But having those dedicated in my savings account has been life changing for me and actually being able to save money because I think with ADHD, like, if I see$20 just sitting in a savings account and I have no idea what its job is or what its purposes, it's really easy to just spend that money. Yeah. It's just sitting there. You have no emotional attachment to it. Yes. Whereas if I pay $20 for a new car, because as much as I don't like cars, I know my car is going to break down at some point or a vacation or something else I'm saving for that has an emotional tie to it. It's almost like harder to spend that money. But really what it is, it's just easier to make the decision that, okay, maybe I'd rather not buy this thing right now and wait, because this goal, the savings of the mine matters to me. Yes. Love it. And you have those all in high yield savings accounts. Okay. So I know you're in Canada. You use Ally Bank, right? I don't know about you Canadians and what you have. I don't have Allied Bank, but it's kind of like Allied Bank, where it's one high yield savings account, but then it has your bucket system where you can save. So I don't know what the Canadian version of that is. We have a similar idea. I recommend EQ bank, and they don't have like, it's basically the same thing, but you can open five savings accounts, but they're all still under the same umbrella. So it's kind of like having buckets. But the one annoying thing is that you're limited to five on there, but that's still quite a bit of different accounts that you can have. Yeah. And I tell you, even if you don't have a savings account that has the ability to kind of separate it by goals, even just before I knew that that was a thing, I wrote it down, like in a notes app. And anytime I added money into my savings account, I just had my five to ten goals. And I would just kind of split it up on there. But at any point in time, I would go and look and say, okay, yes, I have this lump sum sitting in the savings account, but I had to go to my notes at first to say if I'm going to take money from it, where is it coming from, from these goals? So at least I had some way for my brain to know this money matters. It's not just sitting there. Honestly, I love naming accounts. I'm glad you brought that up. It makes it more fun, too. It's kind of like gamifying it a little bit. But I had this one client who named their mental health kind of like fund the no Bones Day Fund. And I just like, that funny. I hope most of the listeners know of the Bones No Bones situation on TikTok, but I just thought that was like, I don't know, such a fun way to just think about your mental health fund. It's just like, oh, yeah, this is for when it's a no Bones Day. I'm going to dip into this, and I just love that. So I think that's such a powerful way to, like you said, put that meaning and emotional attachment behind the money that's actually in there. So it's not just like free money sitting there that you can spend. Yeah. Just to be honest here, I love naming it in fun ways or doing what you can to make it a little bit fun because finances and money, it's not always the most fun thing about that. I think it's fun, but I know that I'm a minority on that one, and I know that sometimes there are times when I'm like, this is so boring. So in any way that you can make it something you want to keep coming back to, I think do it. Even if it's kind of weird or quirky or whatever. If it's going to keep you coming back and being excited about your finances in any way, I'm here for it. Yeah, agreed. And I will say on EQ bank, you can also do like goals. And there's like little percentages and it will show you on your homepage, like what percentage you've reached of the goal. And I personally love that because it's like, oh, I'm 50%. There like I got to get to 100%. So yeah, anything you can do like that, even if it's not available on the platform that you're using, you can do that yourself and have your own little color in sheet of how far you're going or whatever is going to keep you excited to getting towards that goal, I think is just so helpful. So thank you for that little tidbit. Of course, I love talking about those little fun savings hacks, because I feel like that's the thing that kind of got me to start saving money because before when I thought I was just supposed to save because that's what adults do. It never happened. I always found myself transferring my money from savings into checking to cover just Target shopping trip or whatever it was. And I think that it's so important to create that kind of fun space around 20 in whatever little ways you can. Yes. If you have a giant lump sum sitting in savings that has no purpose, please. I think the majority of people think will be like, yeah, it's not working. Okay. So very last question to end it off on. I would love to know what advice you would give to folks who identify similarly to you or have had a similar experience or been on a similar path as some of the things you've mentioned in regards to embracing their identity within their finances. Yeah. So I think for me, it was just first and foremost, knowing that no matter how much debt you're in, no matter how much you've been struggling with money and how much it feels like it's all your fault and that you just suck at it, knowing that you are deserving of feeling confident with money, you're deserving of changing that relationship and feeling confident and educated in how to manage your money in whatever way that looks like for you, and also knowing that you're so much more than your past money mistakes. And for me, that was huge. Finally coming to that realization. And it's not something that happens overnight and you are going to have setbacks you're going to have days where in weeks or months where it's just not happening or it feels like you're getting nowhere, feels like you're taking five steps back and that's totally normal even now. Like a few months ago, for the first time ever over drafted my bank account because of just like what I would have considered, quote, unquote, stupid mistake. But really what it was like life was happening and things happen and we're all humans and that's okay. And I still struggled with feeling like here I am talking about finances, like being called an expert, and I am still making mistakes like that, just giving yourself the space to know that that's okay. And to know that however you manage your money in a way that works for you is the right way to do it for you. However someone else is doing it, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't mean that you suck at it. It just means that that's not what's right for you. And that's the beauty of the personal finance community. And that's the beauty of there being so many different ways for you to manage your finances is that it's all about how can you make your money work for you? Yes, I love it. This is literally what the podcast is about. Such a great note to end on. I could not agree more. And that's why we're here. And that's why I am even doing this podcast is like, let's put you in the forefront again and like who you are as a person and put that first before we think about how to manage your finances. Because if you're not thinking of your own identity and how you navigate the world first, then anything you're trying is just not going to work because it's just not the right thing for you. And it's okay. It's not the right thing. We just got to find what does work. I love that. And I also feel like I want to note because you mentioned that being a personal finance expert, you still make mistakes. And I also want to note one of my own mistakes because, funny, like, we're living the same life right now, but I actually overdrafted my account a little while ago too, because I had a subscription that came off of a credit card and it was like an annual one. So it was like just renewed once a year and the credit card that was on file had expired. And so then it went to the next card on file, which was my debit. So it was drew from my debit card, which I didn't have money in for it because I didn't think it was coming out of there. Here's a reminder that personal finance experts also make mistakes. We're all human. We're all just like doing the best we can. It's totally okay. It happens. And it doesn't mean that all hope is lost. No. And there's anything that you feel like has been a mistake or that you've messed up on in the past does not dictate your ability to manage your finances in the future and your future financial success. Like you said earlier about when you were struggling, it was like, of course you were struggling. Like all of these things were happening. You were undiagnosed with your ADHD. Of course this is happening. And I think that's an important step too. It's just forgiving ourselves, for the things that were not our fault and that we're out of our control of. Like, you know, I always say we were never given the tools. Many of us were not given the tools to succeed or taught how to manage finances in a way that works for us. So it's not our fault. It's nobody's fault. It's something that happened. And now we can work on taking steps to figure out what does work for us. Exactly. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so this has been so great. I feel like we could talk all day, but I will let you go free. But where can the listeners go and find you and hear more from you if they're not already following you, which they should be. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. This has been incredible. I'm so excited we got to do this so you can find me on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube all at the avocado toast budget and oh, my gosh, I just love this talk. I feel like we talk about so many things that I'm so passionate about, but I also think are important topics that we need to have more conversations about and yeah, I'm so thankful that you had me on here. This is incredible. Me too. And I will link every link, every platform that you are on below. So if you want to go check out Alexa on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, you say Twitter too? Yeah, I'm newly on Twitter so you can come hang out with me. Followers? Yes. Amazing. Okay, so Lexus everywhere all over the internet. However you can do content, you can find a platform. I love that. Okay, well, thank you again for being here. I just am so thankful for you and for these conversations and I can't wait for everyone to hear. Yeah, thank you so much. Did I not tell you that there was so much good stuff in this episode? If you're left wanting to hear more, Lexa provides shame free personal finance education on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. I have all of those links in the show notes as well as a link to check out ATB's course, the Avocado Toast Budget's financial survival guide. If you're interested in that, if you enjoyed this podcast episode, we'd love it if you would share a screenshot on your social media and tell us what you loved about it. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can subscribe to the show rate and leave a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. I will be donating $1 for every review left in the first six months to organizations that our podcast guests have chosen. Thank you for listening and remember to Keep Finance Queerd.