BONUS Throwback Episode - General John P. Jumper, Retired, USAF, from January 2018

****DISCLAIMER**** The views and comments made by host and guest do not represent the views nor are they in association with the United States military.  ****

NOTE: This episode was recorded on another podcast by same host. The new Facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/passingthetorchwithmartinfoster/

Retired Air Force Chief of Staff, General John P. Jumper, provides thoughts on mentorship and leadership. Mr. Jumper served in the military for 39 years and gained plenty of knowledge along the way. Like a true mentor, he shares that knowledge to carry on the Air Force Legacy. For more information, please see his bio:

 http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/Article/104697/general-john-p-jumper/

Topics include:

- Advancement of technology

- Leaders leveraging social media to their advantage

- Working twice as hard today to develop leadership skills

- SNCOs having face-to-face contact

- What his leadership approach would be in current Air Force

- People confusing mentorship with sponsorship

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everyone, you are listening to Passing the Tort Podcast. On this episode, it's my very first episode with a guest. This episode was actually recorded on a previous podcast that I hosted. Well, I still have that sports podcast. I also have an additional podcast that is focused on strictly mentorship and uh leadership and uh inspiration. My very first guest on Passing the Torch podcast is former Air Force Chief of Staff General John Jumper. There's a lot of things that he talks about in this episode, a lot of very quotable things. Bottom line, he has a lot of years and experience in military service, a lot of great insight, a lot of again just messages and quotes, so just check it out and listen. And after you're done listening, just please uh like and share my Facebook page passing the torch with Martin Foster in order to continue to spread the word. And just help me grow my podcast and my audience. I need people to just like and share my page. That's all you have to do. It's very simple. Listen, like and share, make sure your time. Enjoy the episode. Hello, everybody. My name is Martin Foster, and I am the host of the A Sports Podcast. And I typically talk about sports. However, some other topics that I'm interested in are mentorship and leadership. Here to talk with me a little bit about both. As a man who knows a thing or two, Mr. John Jumper. Sir, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Great. Martin, how are you today?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I'm doing really well. I appreciate you coming on the show. Um, like I said, I typically just talk about sports in my podcast. However, I I have a huge passion, and I I can talk for a long time about leadership and mentorship and just the positive impact at both. And you searched for a long time. We talked about this before we started recording. How fast did the time just really fly by?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Well, I spent 39 years in the Air Force, and uh, you know, I retired in 2005. It's hard to believe. It's been 12 years. Uh I've been fairly active, uh, well, actually very active since I retired, so that time has gone by uh quickly too. But uh the um thirty thirty-nine, almost forty years that uh served in the Air Force were uh remarkable. I wouldn't trade uh a minute of it, uh extremely rewarding. And uh, you know, to guys like you, I say I've seen both sides. I've been out uh into the big world, been in the commercial world, uh been the CEO of a large public company, and uh uh I I I can say that uh you all are doing the right thing. You all who are on active duty now or serving your nation are with the finest people in the world, and uh uh you should be very proud of the choice you've made to uh to serve your country in the Air Force.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Does it amaze you just how far technology and everything's come just when you first uh joined in 1966?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Oh yeah. You know, when I uh back in back in those days, uh, you know, everything was analog, uh hardly anything was digital, and uh to watch the transition to the digital world and uh to be able to uh watch the instantaneous global communications and to be a part of it, uh be a part of that huge transition. Uh to watch uh us uh get into the world of cyber warfare, which I stayed with after I retired. My uh the company I was uh where I was a CEO was a was a a technology and cyber company, and to watch that technology advance and uh as well as uh uh all the uh the digitization of uh everything we do in command and control, etc., has been uh uh quite remarkable. And it's been great in one respect uh to watch it uh evolve and uh a little actually frustrating in other respects to uh know that we haven't really uh gone as far and fast as we should in uh in taking advantage of technology and in many ways we've lost our edge uh in uh uh a lot of technology to uh to our adversaries, but uh still it has been an amazing journey.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

So much is uh like we said, so much has changed um you know since when you first came in. Social media is such a huge part of the m uh today's military, and just to today's world and uh overall, how can leaders best leverage uh social media to their advantage?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Well, it's a tough one, you know. Uh I dealt with this uh in the in the civilian world. Uh uh one of the problems with uh social media and the whole digital world is that uh I find that people in workstations and at uh uh on their iPhones and and uh texting and messaging, etc., really don't behave uh all the time like they're like they're true selves. And as a matter of fact, uh in many ways you get a lot braver when you don't have to f uh look at somebody in the eye uh and you do things that you really uh shouldn't do, and this is a uh this is one of the problems with uh with social media. You know, in the company that I work with, I had a lot of people who wanted to uh work uh work from home and uh use their home as a virtu virtual workstation, which which is fine. You you can do that for some kinds of jobs. Uh I used to say that uh there's uh no such thing as a virtual promotion. So uh, you know, people uh whether they're in the military or in they're in the civilian world, uh need to make sure that they develop the skills and the qualities, uh social skills and qualities that have to do with uh human contact and uh be able to uh you have to work twice as hard in this day and age to develop leadership skills, uh to be able to inspire human endeavor and be able to uh communicative with uh with the folks you work with day in and day out. We're two, we've we've isolated ourselves, I think, and I think it's a danger. On the other hand, you point out that uh social media is a powerful thing. It it can be, uh, both for positive and negative. Uh uh, but when we pick up on the negative and we tend to uh make ourselves believe uh what uh the latest rumor is or in uh uh actually contribute to uh rumors, innuendo, and we don't uh care to find out the truth, then then it's negative. And it's uh it can be counterproductive. So it goes both ways. It's a powerful thing. Uh leaders uh have to step into it very carefully because, as I said, um when you step into it as a commander or as the as the CEO of a company, uh you've got to be aware that um people can come back and say things they really don't mean to say, and you have to make sure that you're not giving them an opportunity to destroy themselves by making a comment yourself as a leader uh on on social media. So uh it's gotta be approached with care. It's a powerful tool. It can be it can be used productively, but it's got to be used carefully.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

The military prides itself on camaraderie and just sticking together. Do you think that's kind of been a loss a little with social media because, like you said, people are just they're they're more virtual and isolated?

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, they have. Here again, uh guys like you, uh senior NCOs that uh are out there and and commanders, but uh I think especially the senior NCOs uh have got to make sure that you that you don't lose sight of some of the traditional ways that uh you made sure that your people got together. I mean, I recall back uh in the maintenance squadrons and the security squadrons and uh even in in uh some of the uh some some of the other uh squadrons I've been in, uh, you know, they used to start the day with some sort of a roll call. And uh you'd have a chance to get together and uh talk over what was bothering you, and uh and had a chance to uh mix with your uh uh with your first sergeant and your commander. And uh uh were just a little bit more personal then. And you had my dad who uh grew up in the Air Force and retired, and he was a two-star, used to say that uh uh leadership is mostly about just walking around and uh talking to people. And uh I think that's that's something that we have lost, but but we have to deliberately put ourselves uh out there to have that face-to-face contact. Uh and it's just harder to do today than it was before. We used to have clubs too. The NCO club and the officers clubs uh back in the day were were active places and social interaction was the thing you look forward to uh uh during the week and uh toward Friday night. And uh, you know, that's just sort of gone away with uh some of the other distractions that uh that uh come into our lives uh uh as uh as a consequence of uh of progress, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

How differently would you approach leadership in today's Air Force, say if you're just a brand new second lieutenant or just a young captain?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Well, the first thing I do is well, I matter of fact, I do what I did when I came in, what my dad told me to do. You go grab the first sergeant, you go grab a senior NCO, and you and you put yourself in that person's hand, uh somebody who's been doing it for 15 or 20 years, and you uh you let them uh teach you the ropes. Uh you let you let them uh teach you uh how people uh how how people uh uh what their sensitivities are and uh and and what their problems are, and you just get to understand them and their work environment. Uh uh you get to know actually you get to know their families and and you you you take part in their lives uh in in a way that is it's much more difficult to today. But we shouldn't abandon those uh principles. We should uh we should uh seek them out actually. And uh and and so if I were a lieutenant, uh second lieutenant today, uh I'd do exactly uh what I did back uh back when I got what my dad advised me to do. It's it it's the same, it's just harder to get done these days than it was then.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

But the foundation still remains the same, and I've um that's definitely some advice I've taken. Just getting out and just talking to people.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

It's the same Air Force. You know, when you uh uh when I travel overseas and uh I've even done it since I've uh retired, gone out and uh and visit the the troops and and watch the the uh the spirit and uh their dedication and how how easy it is to come together when you do have a single purpose mission. Uh when you are uh when you are uh a part of something bigger than yourself and that and that thing that's bigger than yourself is something that's very visible, like the like a mission in combat uh when you're deployed. Uh those those things bring us together, and we've got to recognize that and be able to to uh to keep that spirit alive in our in our day-to-day uh activity in the Air Force. Realize what the nation uh what the nation uh uh really uh wants its Air Force to be. And that is an air force that can uh that can fly and fight, that can uh put kinetic power uh on an enemy, uh that can deploy, that can sustain itself while deployed, uh and uh is the most uh proficient in all the things that go into that, be it flying airplanes, fixing airplanes, uh opening a base, sustaining a base, and all that it takes logistically to and and from uh personnel point of view to to keep all of that going. That's what the nation values uh in its Air Force, and uh and we should all be aware of that, be able to reinforce each other uh in in in the pursuit of that mission.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

How important is mentorship and do you feel like is maybe that word sometimes get used in the wrong context that people just don't understand?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, I think uh I think people confuse uh sort of mentorship with sponsorship. Uh if somebody's trying to mentor you, uh, and and this is what I've tried to make clear all of my career, is that as a mentor, I uh I I expose people to sort of the next level of um of of what to expect in the Air Force. You you guide them, uh you uh help them uh understand why things happen at the next level in ways that uh people probably don't understand uh at the lower levels. Uh everybody thinks that uh senior leadership uh makes uh uh uninformed or or even stupid decisions, and you get to see the whole story, the other things that a commander's considering when a decision is made. And so you you create um you create the opportunity for somebody that you're mentoring to uh be able to expose their skills and uh in the in in in a favorable you you give them a favorable opportunity to do that. It shouldn't be confused with sponsorship. Sponsorship is not good. Sponsorship is when you take the person you like and you elevate them above everybody else and you shove them to the front of every line, and those are the things that uh in the end inspire controversy, inspire jealousies, uh uh you get all the wrong reaction for that. Uh the person who's been mentored properly, when they get ahead, everybody in the room should say, yep, that person deserves it. Uh well, I've watched that that young airman uh come up, and that young that's an outstanding young airman, and they deserve to be uh to be rewarded for it uh for what they've done. But that's the kind that's the kind of of results that proper sp uh proper mentorship uh uh delivers.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

How important is it for senior COs to mentor and develop the best they can young CGOs?

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Well, it's very important. You know, I used to be very upset when uh, you know, we get these uh youngsters out of uh basic training, uh, they'd come into the unit and uh and the first thing they do is get uh get told that the real air force uh isn't uh isn't uh all of the discipline and all of the uh ideals that you learned at uh Lackland. It's much different than that. The real world is uh gloomier, it's harder, it's uh uh you know, the you you you have to you have to learn to deal with the real world. Uh I preferred the NCOs that tried to maintain those high standards uh uh that uh went face to face with the people that uh that worked for them and with them, that uh had a keen eye on the mission at all times, uh, and uh that when you walked in the room, you knew this outfit was uh uh was blessed with uh great NCOs, senior NCOs in particular, that were leading their people in the proper way, as opposed to walking in a room and everybody slouched over or slouched in a chair. Uh, when I was a senior officer, nobody stood up uh from time to time. Those kinds of things that let you know that uh uh you know you didn't have that mutual respect uh that you should have uh in our Air Force.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

There's so many things going on in our world just overall. If you were just a uh a squadron commander or a group commander or any type of commander in today's Air Force, what would you do to keep your uh your team focused?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

For me, it's very easy. Uh I've I've watched uh our Air Force and the people in our Air Force perform for a very long time. And it's hard because every single day we work hard. And uh we're dealing with problems, especially at the leadership level. Your colonels and your senior NCOs are dealing with problems most of the time. And it's hard to make yourself or your people stand back and take a look at what you're really doing. It's amazing that we are able as an Air Force to take our weapons and deploy them halfway around the world, set up at an operating location that is uh uh halfway around the world, sustain ourselves for months and even years at a time, uh, be able to do that in a matter of hours and uh do it as effectively, more effectively than anyone else in the world, any other Air Force in the world, uh to have the respect that we have from uh from others around the world, um, and to be a part of that team is absolutely amazing. And uh you uh guys like you who are senior NCOs and our commanders, owe it to our people to stand in front of them every once in a while and just just let them know how important it is what we do day in and day out in our United States force. Uh when you look at the at the uh effect we're having on uh on global terrorism, uh the uh ability to reach out uh and uh do damage to our enemies like Geisus, uh to be able to do it in ways that they can't detect, uh, to be able to uh to you know to respond to uh various situations and uh humanitarian disasters uh when they occur. Uh all that we mean to the United States of America, we have to we have to remind ourselves from time to time that it's because we get in there and we have problems and we fix the problems, but then we need to be able to celebrate the results of our work. And uh so if if I'm if I'm out there standing in front of a group of people, I'm reminding them of how absolutely vitally important it is, not only to the Air Force, not only to the nation, but to the world. What we do uh to keep whatever stability there is in the world, we have a big part of doing that. And uh there is no more rewarding uh job on this earth than what uh you and your colleagues in uniform today are doing for the nation.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Sir, last question. The Air Force just recently celebrated its 70th anniversary, its 70th birthday. What do you think is key for the development and advance advancement of the Air Force over the next 70 years?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Well, I think we just uh we need to do uh a much better job at taking advantage of the of the technology that's out there. And uh in in the budget, in the budgeting uh process uh in our in our relations with Congress, uh our Air Force could be very much more effective if we uh had just taken advantage of opportunities that we've had to integrate the set of systems that we have, to integrate our command and control better, to uh be able to uh um uh to uh to not only just modernize, which which implies just replace a platform with a platform, but also to integrate, take advantage of the uh of the of the digitization and the digital uh uh technology uh that's out there, to be able to uh get information uh uh to the to the battlefield and to the p into the cockpit uh in in much more efficient ways, uh be able to react to situations uh in in uh much quicker than we've we've really been able to do. Even though we're getting better, we're not anywhere near where we should be, as far as I'm concerned. Uh people are working down that. I think they understand that. Our new chief uh General Gulfein, I know, uh, does understand that. Uh, and uh I think we have a great team in General Goldfein and uh uh Secretary Wilson in Washington to help uh lead the way uh into the future.

unknown 19:10

So uh we've got to make sure that people understand first the importance of what they do.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Uh the dedication that they demonstrate is unique uh as America's value system uh, in my view, continues to erode. Uh we've got people who still believe in honesty, character, and integrity. Uh the core values of the of the United States Air Force still uh apply uh to uh to the people uh in our Air Force and I think are carried out by the majority of the people in our Air Force. Um so we need to stay true to our values. I think we need to pursue technology with uh more vigor, and I think that uh uh we have to make sure that we are anticipating uh as best we can what's out there in this world that is so unstable today.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

So you retired in 2005 and the mentorship never stops. I I love it. I think uh you provided some great insight today. I uh I have a note card right in front of me with only two questions, and and I figured we'll start talking about something and it'll it'll drive to another question. That's exactly uh what happened. Um I think that's great. You provided some uh some pretty awesome insight today and just overall mentorship. Sir, I I can't explain or just express how much this means to me. I thank you so much for uh for doing this uh my episode of the podcast. I told my wife a couple weeks ago, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna have uh jump for my podcast, and I got some crazy looks. But again, just uh thank you so much. I appreciate your uh you taking time out of your day. I appreciate your mentorship, your leadership, and uh I just wish you the best of luck and everything.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Well, thank you uh very much, and I wish you all the luck and all the people who listen to this. Uh my very best wishes we are the greatest Air Force in the world because of you and uh the people who wear our uniform today. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Alright, everybody, that wraps up the most recent episode of AIM Sports Podcast. And for those listening, I typically talk about sports, but I took a little bit different approach today with by talking about leadership and mentorship with a guy that knows a lot about both of those. Um with Mr. John Jumper, as I guess. If you like what I had to say and you want to hear more, please, please, please, please uh first like my Facebook page, just go to AIM Sports Guys, just uh just like that page. That way you'll see on all the uh content that I publish. Please check out my podcast on iTunes. Uh same thing I'll post on link on Facebook. If you actually just go to uh iTunes, you can just search for uh Aim Sports Guys Podcast. I appreciate everyone for listening. Thanks for your time, have a good day.