The Power of Words & Women in B2B Sales

Welcome to this week’s episode of The Power Lounge, where authentic conversations reveal the real power behind the stories of remarkable women in business. Hosted by Amy Vaughan, chief empowerment officer at Together Digital, today’s episode dives deep into the often-overlooked gap between women’s contributions in B2B sales and how they’re actually recognized, compensated, and promoted.

Our guest, Lori Richardson, founder of Score More Sales and president of Women Sales Pros, joins us to share her journey from a young, single mother entering tech sales in the 1980s to a force for change in the industry. Lori is also the award-winning host of Conversations with Women in Sales and author of She Sells, a guide for leaders to recruit, retain, and elevate women in sales and leadership—not just women, but their allies, too.

In this episode, Amy Vaughan and Lori Richardson tackle the reality of pay inequity, negotiation tactics, mentorship versus sponsorship, the impact of AI on sales roles, and why “sales skills are life skills.” Lori shares insights from her Sales Decades Project, honoring female trailblazers, and offers practical advice for leaders and women aspiring to grow in sales.

Get ready for candid stories, practical wisdom, and inspiration to help you ask for what you deserve, build your influence, and climb higher—together.

Key Takeaways
From Challenge to Champion
Sales Skills = Life Skills
Beyond the Paycheck—Ask for What You Deserve
Mentors and Sponsors Matter
Strategic Volunteering Wins
The Power of Allies
Celebrate Progress, Keep Climbing

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
00:10 "Women in B2B Sales"
05:50 "Turning Point After Struggles"
09:38 "Sales Skills Are Life Skills"
12:21 "Find Good Leaders, Equality Matters"
15:48 Women Underrepresented in Sales Leadership
17:16 Gender Pay Disparity Insights
20:14 "Ask, Receive, $60,000 Raise"
26:04 Mentorship vs. Sponsorship Insights
28:42 "Proactive Self-Promotion at Work"
31:58 "Anger Inspires Sales Role Models"
34:27 "Turning Anger into Opportunity"
38:08 Unpaid Labor and Workplace Inequity
41:46 "Temporary Leadership and Growth"
44:12 Women, Sales, and Adapting to AI
49:13 "Al Martin: Pacing Sales Guru"
50:45 "Strategic Negotiation Pays Off"
53:12 "Join Together Digital Community"
53:48 - Outro

Quotes
“Celebrate your wins, share your power, and don’t hold back from asking for what you deserve—because when one of us wins, we all win.”- Amy Vaughan

“Go where you’re celebrated, not tolerated. Be strategic, be visible, and always negotiate for your value—because being seen starts with you showing up.”- Lori Richardson

Connect with Lori Richardson
Website: https://www.scoremoresales.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scoremoresales/

Call To Action:
Attend the Sales Decades Event
Interested in attending the Sales Decades Project event in Dallas?
Reference this episode for an extended early bird price!

📅 April 22nd – Reception (recognizing nominees)
📅 April 23rd – Day of learning (sales, leadership, mentorship)
📍 University of Texas Dallas, Sales Excellence Program

Details available via Score More Sales Website or connect directly with Lori via LinkedIn.

Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast:https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/

Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by vis

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Matters

Lori’s Path Into Tech Sales

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power Lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn, and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer at Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who choose who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. You can join the movement at TogetherIndigital.com. And today's conversation is one I've been looking forward to because we're going somewhere a lot of people dance around, but rarely go directly. The gap between women's contributions in B2B sales and how they're actually seen, compensated, and promoted. Today, our guest Lori Richardson is the founder of Score More Sales, a top B2B sales strategy firm helping mid-market leaders solve real revenue problems from hiring and retention to building inclusive, high-performing sales teams. She's also the president of Women's Sales Pros, a community she founded in 2015 when she noticed that nearly every single manager was trained and coaching that was training and coaching, she was training and coaching was a male. That moment of clarity launched a movement. And Lori is now also the author of She Sells, a book dedicated to helping companies recruit, retain, and promote more women into sales and leadership. She is also the host of the award-winning podcast, Conversations with Women in Sales, and Salesforce has named her a top sales influencer for five years running, which is so awesome, from 2021 to 2025. Her latest initiative, the Sales Decades Project, is documenting and honoring women who quietly shaped the B2B sales industry for decades. Women who deserve to be named, celebrated, and studied. Lori, uh Lori's story is deeply personal, which we love here, right? We love to get vulnerable. We love to get real. We love to talk about the challenges and help each other navigate through them. She entered tech sales as a young single mother in the mid-1980s and went from minimum wage to a six-figure income. Go, Lori. She is uh spent her career making sure that more women succeed in that same path. Lori, we're so excited to have you here in the Power Lounge. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks, Amy. It's really a pleasure to be here. Absolutely. All right, we're gonna just jump right in. Um hello to our live listening audience. We are always glad when you join us to listen live, members, non-members, drop your questions, drop your comments into the chat. I'll be keeping an eye on those as I interview and talk with Lori. We want to know what you want to know. That's why we have these conversations. So if you have a question, you have a comment, drop it in the chat. I promise you we will get to it during the show. But let's start with your start, Lori. Um, as a young single mom in the 80s, looking for a role that could support your family, what was it about B2B sales that that clicked for you? And when did you realize that this was the path that you wanted to help other women find as well?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah, it's interesting because I I grew up in a family-run business. So my grandmother, who we called Mimi, had a retail women's apparel store. Yeah, I grew up in Seattle, and she had, it wasn't just a store. I mean, it was upscale. It was very classy, you know, really nice stuff. And she had this incredible customer base and clientele of good, regular, ongoing uh customers. And I learned so much from her, although I I didn't think I was there to learn anything. You know, I was just just hanging out most of the mostly. And then I started working for her. And but I wanted to become a teacher, so I got out of high school early because I was bored, and I got my first degree and my associate's degree in early childhood education by the time I was 18. So when my friends were graduating, you know, I'm way ahead of the game. Oops, but then I got pregnant, married, divorced, and sidetracked a little bit. And suddenly my childcare uh working in um with kids who were mostly under five, five years old, I loved it so much. It was so great. And I worked at the University of Washington with international students, kids, but I couldn't support my family. And so I thought I'm gonna find something that's non-traditional that my male peers are making the same money because as a head of household, why shouldn't I make the same? So that's what I set out to do, and I didn't research and I went to through a program where I learned all sorts of different non-traditional jobs for women. And then the guy came in to talk about technology. And when that happened, I thought just somehow it came to me. This was not a big grand plan, mind you. It just some voice said to me, you know, what if you sold technology? And so I was able to get in after many, many tries, lots of resumes applied all over town. I got a role as uh as a salesperson in a computer store, basically.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I love that story. Thank you so much for sharing it. I I honestly cannot imagine what that must have been like. You know, graduating from school younger, you know, getting pregnant young, getting divorced young, going through all of that and then still having like the clarity for yourself to trust that intuition and say, oh, like this is the thing, and not just see like the roadblocks, but see the opportunity in that. I think that that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, I mean, I just there had to be a better way. I knew there had to be a better way, and I I didn't want to be hand-to-mouth. And what had happened, one of the things that happened is I got in a car accident on my way to buy my son a pair of shoes, and I totaled my car, and I I actually didn't have car insurance back then because it wasn't required, and I was just scraping by. And you know, it just changed everything that I realized. Yeah, I have to have more stability. It just hit me young, probably because I'm the youngest in my family. And so I I've seen, you know, I'd seen a lot of other things. But yeah, it was definitely a turning point. And I started on straight commission in my sales job. I didn't make a penny. I had a guarantee for about two months, and then it was all me. So I had to learn how to be successful.

Why Leadership Still Skews Male

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Wow, that's a gauntlet right there, like on all ends and all sides. But it is fascinating how like sometimes those lowest points, those lowest moments are the moments you're like, I just gotta get up and figure this out. So fast forward to 2015, now you're training other sales managers, and you look around the room and you're like, wait a second, it's all dudes. That realization came, became women uh sales pros. What do you think about that gap that is uh set about the industry then? And how was it then and and how has it or hasn't it changed since the 80s?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah, I I just posted about it today on my LinkedIn, actually. I wrote an article, a long form article, and I think about this all the time. You know, every year it's it's Women's History Month, it's International Women's Day, and October is Women in Sales Month, and and so I'm always wondering what's changed, what's different, how can I make an impact, how can I how can I say something differently? And and what I realized in 2015, it like it felt like the 1980s because I actually had more women that I worked with back then. And my first job, I had a good mix of men and women. We were having a blast, we were all young, there was no big issues, everybody made the same money. But then it was my next role uh and subsequent sales roles that I started to see pay inequity, um, just you know, being passed over, not being heard, and and a lot of those things. And it just surprised me when I walked into this room full of about a hundred managers, that about 90 some of them were men. And I know that women are good in leadership, and I know women can be really good in sales. Um, not sales is not for everyone for sure, but women can just kill it, as they say, you know, and really succeed. And I just was so surprised that it it hadn't changed in in that that was a telecom industry.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Ooh, telecom. I was a telemarketer for all of like three months, and it was the worst job of my life. But I will tell you that it really taught me how to just kind of go for it, you know, and then get past the uncertainty, get past the lack of confidence because you have a quota. And like you said, you're working on commission. And so it really pushes you out of your comfort zone. And, you know, and it's not easy. You're right, and it's not for everybody. But I think what it taught me was that that assertiveness and that confidence as I continue to grow and build it and get more comfortable with like my script and the approach and managing different types of people. Um, you know, it's kind of it's kind of like it's like you're you're learning the game, you know, and it's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah, and sales skills, sales skills are life skills. And and so I feel like there's no downside for a woman in particular, women are men, but in particular women, to spend two years in a sales role because the first year can be tough. But once you master things and once you get a handle on how things work and the ebbs and flows and things like that, and deal with if you're able to deal with rejection, um, it it it's such an amazing career. And all of the lessons apply to life. So if you want to go on and and start your own business, for example, you're gonna be the first salesperson. And so you better know how to sell. And many business people, people start businesses all the time. Founders start, they don't know the first thing about sales. Those are companies that we work with sometimes. And so, um, and and if you just want to stay in corporate and climb the corporate ladder at various companies, you get you use those sales skills for that too. So it's it's a really good set of skills to learn, even if you just use it professionally or with your kids or your family, you know, in terms of where you're going for vacation. And all those things have to do, you know, there there are ways that you can help influence um the outcome.

Why She Sells Targets Leaders

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, that's great. I love that sound bite. Uh sales skills are life skills. It's absolutely true because it takes all that, it takes confidence, it takes negotiation, it takes self-awareness. Yeah, a lot of those things. Um, no, I mentioned earlier in your intro about your book, She Sells. Um, and it's addressed to both company and sales leaders, and not just women. So I was curious, like, why did you make that choice specifically? And what was the most common blind spot that you see in leaders who think they are building inclusive sales teams, but maybe aren't?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Yeah, so she sells was really the book with all the answers that I was giving to mostly to leaders who were mostly men. So that that book actually is for men more than women. Um, anyone in leadership, a lot of the women know that we need more women. And most women hire more women than men do and are more diverse in terms of their thinking and building inclusive teams. So it was really written to men to say, hey, here's how you can do a better job at finding more diverse candidates. Here's how you can, you know, put them through the process to recruit, and then here's how you can onboard in a better way. So it was a lot of different um, it was really my answers to all these one-on-one conversations I had with leaders over the years and and just put it in a book. Um, how has it changed? I I feel like, you know, there are some companies that do it really well, and there are a bunch that don't. And so at least people have the choice now to find those good companies and find, I say find the good leaders. If if you're gonna report to someone, you want to work for someone who wants your best interest, who wants you to grow and improve, who wants you to have the same pay as your male counterpart. All those things are really important because the the latest stats from 2024 show that women are still not paid equally, even in a sales role where there's commissions involved, because it's the salaries that are not set the same. It happened to me in the 80s and it continued. Um, you know, I once you're you're down lower, you you don't ever get ahead. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

No, that's great. I love that. And I am so with you there. I mean, it's obviously like you can't just preach to the choir. And I'm all about empowering women, but I also think you need to empower the allies. And I think a lot of men hold back from doing that because they don't feel like they have the information, insight, data, or even the ability to have the empathy, not saying they're not empathetic, it's just they don't have the lived experience. And so I think if they're willing to sit and hear that, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yeah, and and there's such a societal influence. For example, just the book being called She Sells, a lot of men thought that it's for women. And so I had CEOs that said, Oh, I'm gonna give this to all the women on my sales team. And I was like, You didn't subtitle. Read the subtitle. It's for you, man. Right. So it's so that was funny to me, and uh, maybe not so funny, but but it it holds true. It it holds true. And and so the event that I'm doing in April, it's I don't use the word women in it, if you notice, because I don't want to disenfranchise half the population who thinks it's not for them, because we have both women and men attending.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that. I think that that's the right approach this day and age, and given where we are, I think that's gonna be the thing that helps move the needle forward.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Because we're recognizing women doesn't mean that men won't appreciate it and learn from it. And and what I'm excited about is that a lot of uh we have 50 university students in sales programs that are attending, and probably half are men. So that's really good for those young men growing up.

Pay Gaps And How To Ask

SPEAKER_00 14:56

I love it. That's great. Yeah, gotta raise them right. Awesome. Let's talk about you mentioned earlier the compensation and unequal pay in sales and how it's a real undocumented problem across a multitude of industries, but let's keep it focused on sales. What are the patterns you see and what do you tell women who suspect they're being underpaid but aren't sure how to approach it?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Well, it's interesting. I I like to follow the data. I don't like to just throw out numbers and stats, and there's a lot of bad stats about pay. Uh, you know, it's hard, particularly sales, because the government used to do some kind of tracking, but there were a lot of retail jobs that were mixed in. What I I have looked to a survey, a couple things. One is Gartner did some research, they haven't updated it in a few years, but Gartner has had some really good research about about women in sales and good stats. But there's a company called Exactly, um, and they have a tool that helps calculate commissions and things like that, that people use a platform. And what they found that um I think the last time it was done was 2024, and they found that um the research showed that women are significantly underrepresented, can constituting only 30% of the I'm sorry, 34% of the sales force and 29% of sales managers. Now, the further you go up beyond sales managers to to VPs of sales and chief revenue officers, it gets less and less oxygen up there for women. So it's a it's a much, much smaller amount. And this hasn't changed a whole lot over the years, which is sad.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, no, I agree. The stats are usually either abysmal and or questionable, but nonetheless, the the more accurate, the the less like dehar disheartening they are. Um, okay, so when it comes to like approaching the conversation, I think that's another thing, right? I think as women, we're not conditioned to talk about money, um, which is hard because it it sales is nothing but money, right? How might someone go about having that conversation if they feel like they're being poorly or undercompensated? Like, where do you even begin?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Well, I think just understanding the stats. So again, on average, men earn 3.5% more than women as salespeople. Um, and when they adjust outside factors, men earn 9% more than women as salespeople. And that's base, like base salary, fixed pay, as they would call it. And so it's really important to understand when when there's a job offer to know that you know that what they base it on. Like it's anytime you're negotiating, it's good to know how where did you get that number from, or how did you base that number? And and I think that's a fair question. And then um, I'm just a real stickler because I know that at least two or three times in my career I I was not paid the same as my male counterparts. So even today, even as uh a thought leader, when someone asked me if I would contribute to an article or you know, something on a website, I want to know well, are is anyone else getting paid to do this if I'm you know, if I'm volunteering my time and and IP, is anyone else getting paid? And that's my first question. And so I'm I'm gonna find out. And and I think it's important for women to know if they're getting uh a you know a fair salary. And also if if you're in a sales role, it's kind of upon you to ask for more because it it demonstrates w what you're thinking about when if your customer is going to ask for a discount or something, for example, to be able to be comfortable to talk about numbers and to see what's fair and to see what's what's what a company is able to do.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

That's a great point, Lori. I never thought about that. The fact that you negotiating your salary and the terms and the benefits of your job is is you is you demonstrating your skills to do the job. I love it. I love it. And like you said, just the asking. I mean, uh, we once were doing an event and for Together Digital, and we had a panel, it was funny, and it was a conversation about negotiation and whatnot. And and we, you know, had a couple of guys attending the event, and we always love to hear from them and what they have to say. And and one of the guys kind of towards the end, you know, somebody had made an ask about specific negotiation, and he's like, ask for the no. You know, the worst they can say is no. And that was like, what? So simple, but made a lot of sense. It took a lot of the pressure and the overthinking off. And then the other thing was when it was several years ago now, one of our members stood up and shared that she had learned that one of her coworkers who went to the same college as her, got the same degree as her, started at the company the same week as her, in the same role, just a different client, was making more than her. And she didn't say how much more, but she really wanted to know how to approach the topic. And so the advice from the group, because we kind of do this whole ask and give exchange thing, was you know, just go to your boss and ask, do we practice pay equity here? And if so, how does my salary compare to, let's say, oh, I don't know, this guy that I work with who does the exact same job with the exact same degree from the exact same college? And the boss man's like, yeah, you know, let me look into that. Comes back to her not even a month later and is like, okay, so we're gonna give you a raise. And she, Lori, she got a$60,000 a year raise. Not 16, not$6,000,$60,$6,000. Yeah, ridiculous. Five figures of a raise. Because that's how much she was getting underpaid. Incredible. Incredible. But we don't know if we don't ask. And we don't have to go like charging in and making like I love that that was the advice from the community was like, don't go charging in and being accusatory. Be curious, ask the questions and then wait for the answers.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Yeah. And then also, if sometimes people say, Oh, everybody starts at the same level, you know, it this is how we hire. I heard that from a big company recently, not recently, but a while ago. But but but the men will negotiate, uh, but I need to have a week off at Christmas, or I can't start for another, you know, or I need this or that. And they get all these, you know, all these things added in that we don't think about. And and another example for women is I know a woman who came back from maternity leave and she really wanted a bigger salary, but she really wanted flexible more of a flexible schedule. So she said, I chose the flexible schedule and went to bat for the That and she goes, turns out I could have had both. Oh, right. You don't get what you don't ask for.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Just assume. Just assume I can only have one, right? That's too much. It's not scarcity mindset, which I do believe is again a lot of social conditioning. But it you're right. I think one of my other favorite stories. Go ahead. No first.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

But Amy, you know, it's also about, oh, if she's asking, you know, she's one of those women that just, you know, asks for this. It's hard to be a woman in business because you're either too aggressive, you're not aggressive enough, you know, you're you're this. It's and we have examples of every each end of the spectrum, and and finding that middle ground is really tricky.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

It is. Yeah, there is no winning because 100%. I was just getting ready to share a story with a guy that um I worked with a while back who was a global strategist who came from a large agency to our Midwest, you know, mid-sized agency. And he was talking about the things he negotiated. Like he didn't want to have a car while he was living here. He was living kind of in the downtown area, close to the agency, but not close enough that it was like a good for him to walk every day. So he negotiated a new bicycle for himself. He also negotiated a nap every day. I was like, what? It's just so wild. But he's like, but these are the things that are my non-negotiables. These are the things that matter to me. And, you know, at the end of the day, the company's like, well, yeah. And I'm sure again, he gets walking in with his credentials and his white dudeness. And I mean, he was just a little to tell the guy too. But like, yeah, he made the money too. He got the bike, he got the naps, and he made the money. But you would just never think to ask for those kinds of things, but you are exactly right. Uh there's a there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

If they tell you no, you know, so what?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what negotiation is. It's a little bit of a dance until you kind of find that that rhythm, those steps that make sense for the both of you. Um and if it's meant to be, yeah, 100% it'll meant to be. I think that whole like uh it's hard right now though, too, right, Lori, because that job market is a no-joke right now. Yeah, it is. So everyone's feeling a little desperate.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

We're all feeling a little desperate. The employer has the upper hand now for sure, but this is why now more than ever, no matter what, you still have to find a company where you know it's ethical and you know, you you believe in the products and services, you like the you can stand behind the company, and you're gonna learn from your boss. I mean, if at the very least you don't want someone that's not gonna support you, and there are plenty of those people out there, unfortunately now that people have learned that a lot of people have learned they can do bad behavior now and get away with it because that's what they see exhibited all over the place these times.

Mentorship Versus Sponsorship

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Absolutely. Yeah, they're seeing that everywhere. Yeah, I feel that. All right. So another thing that comes into play when it comes to moving up and moving through the ranks of sales, you know, mentorship and sponsorship, those of those come up a lot in conversations about women's advancement, but they're not exactly the same thing. Um, what's the difference? And which one do you think women in B2B sales specifically need the most right now?

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Well, I think we need both. Um, you can have both, so you don't have to pick. But um the difference is that mentorship is someone who can do skills better than me that I I want to learn from. So for example, uh I might go to finance and and check with the the head of finance or even the CFO if they'll if they have time to talk to me to show me how you know how finances work in in a business. Uh a PL statement, for example. A lot of people don't know that. And those are important things that AI, you know, AI can explain it, but they can't um leverage it in with a conversation with your prospective customer. So being able to learn specific skills and then to go to someone and say, I I really need to learn, or I'd really like to learn about a PL PL statement. Could you help me with that for over lunch or you know, an hour or so, so that when I'm asking for someone to mentor me, it's not like an open-ended, would you be my mentor? You know, and it's like, well, what does that mean? How long does it last? What do I have to do? And and you be ready as a mentee, you be ready to come to someone saying, Here are the questions that I have, and make it easy for the mentor to do that. So that's that's mentorship is very important because you can learn all different things that you don't know already. And then the other is sponsorship, and and a sponsor is someone who has power in the company who can speak about you when you're not in the room. We know those those conversations happen all the time. Uh, when you're not in the highest echelon at an organization, people are you know talking about what if we did this and what if we moved so-and-so, and what if we got rid of these people? And so the sponsor is the one that says, you know, Amy is just as good as Bob, you know, why don't you look at Amy too? And and that's uh invaluable. I mean, it it's it's just if you don't have that, it can be your demise.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Oh, 100%. And I think it's like the biggest power move that you know allies can make is you know, speaking the names of of the women who are the the folks who are not in the room. That's they I don't think people will really acknowledge how much power that is. And it doesn't require anything of you, honestly. It just shows you that you're putting your, you know, belief and um recommendation behind someone. And if you believe in them and they deserve it, like why why wouldn't you? And that requires no money from you. That requires no time for you. And as long as you're willing to put your, you know, a little bit of your reputation out there and betting on this person, then like why wouldn't you? You know? Yeah, it looks like you're gonna say something else. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Yeah, the best way that you can get a sponsor is not again not to ask, will you be my sponsor? Because nobody wants to do that. That's a lot of responsibility, but you you do extra work or a special project for this person or where there's visibility. Because the issue we don't realize, and and this is notoriously ongoing issues for women, is that we get out of college, in college, we worked really hard, we did extra credit, put our head down, work really hard, then we go to the company, work really hard, put our head down, and we just wait to get tapped on the shoulder, and that doesn't happen. That isn't how it works. So, what what you need to do is make sure that not just your boss knows what you're doing, but somehow your boss's boss, and maybe someone in a horizontal role, and you're out there and you're mixing and you know the people so that people start going, hey that Amy, she's pretty sharp. Maybe she could help with this other project. And and that's how you you don't leave it to your boss to talk you up at all. And keep track of it, even write it down at the end of every week, either digitally or in a notebook or something, the things that you accomplish, because you'd be surprised. I I'm still surprised when I think about what I did, you know, the in the first quarter of this year, for example. My brain's on to the next thing, and I'm not going, oh, but we did this one really great thing, too. So it's a good way to pat yourself on the back. And then if you're up for a promotion or if you're considering a move or you know, going to another organization, have all that listed out so you can just go down and it's not personal, it's not bragging, it's like these are the things I accomplished. Yeah. It's facts. It's facts.

The Sales Decades Project Origins

SPEAKER_00 29:53

I love that. Yeah, to me it is. It's celebration and um relationships. Um I love that. We have a member in Austin who always talks about her to-da folder. She doesn't focus on just her to-dos, she gets her to-da's done as well. Because exactly what you said there, Lori, where it's like we kind of just move through that list because I think we're all kind of hardwired to be productive and we think productive equals value versus like our innate skills and talents alone. It's like, how many items can I check off the list today? You know, and instead, when you pause and look at your ta-da's and you record those, like you said, those aren't just like made up things, those are facts. And one, you deserve to celebrate them. And and two, like again, you need to use them and leverage them as you negotiate, work through the ranks. And then the other is like reputation, right? Celebration and reputation. Those are the two things I was gonna kind of call on. And reputation does come from the relations, like you said, with the sponsor. You can't just be like, yo, be my sponsor. It is, it is earned, like you said. It is something that requires you to show up consistently, you know, and and show that you are are worth, you know, somebody sticking your neck out for. And that really just requires you to be good at your job, show up, you know, do it successfully. And then, like you said, not not hold back from saying, look what I did, and I just did it well, and not in a braggy way, um, but also still have all the uh confidence of a mediocre white man named Chad, as we like to say here within TD. Um, but yeah, talk about it. Humble brag. We have a whole channel on our together digital slack that is just about wins. We want to condition our women to be more, you know, pro approposed to of sharing that win. And we want to celebrate with them because when we hear somebody else is winning, that just means we're all winning. And that's what we love to hear and see. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Love that. Um, let's talk a little bit about your sales decades project. I mentioned this earlier as well in the opening. What inspired it? And what have you discovered about these women's stories that has surprised or moved you?

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Well, what inspired it was me getting angry. So I and I don't get angry very often, but what was happening is I I've noticed a couple of my good friends and colleagues and who I have called mentors um stepping down from being involved in sales. One retired and then one um just said, you know, I'm gonna, I want to do other things. And and they just, you know, kind of left the face of the scene, like on LinkedIn and elsewhere. And I heard two different conversations with two different people telling women who are in sales roles that they need more female role models. And I just thought, wow, but you don't know Trish, and you don't know Jill, and you don't know Siobhan, and you don't know some of these other women that I know who are incredible. And and if you're 20 or 25 getting into say to a sales role, and you're female or male for that matter, because the guys can learn a lot from these women too, there's incredible amounts of knowledge. And these women, women tend to just move on, you know. We don't need to have a website continue, you know, they shut their website down very often. They they don't re-publish their books or make workbooks, or you know, and men don't tend to think that way. It's like, ooh, I could have some passive revenue. Let me build that up. And and my women friends are just moving on. So I thought we need a way to capsulize who these women are. You said it really well in the introduction. I love the words that you chose. Um, but these are trailblazers and these are women that helped take um, you know, take business from being manual to being digital, and and it's pretty cool. You know, it's pretty cool with some of the stories that we've heard and we're gonna be sharing over the next six months online.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah, that's so exciting. I am thrilled to hear that you're doing this because yeah, I attended the 3% conference that was started by Kat Gordon in 2012. It was like the initial launch of it. And at the time it was because the call to 3% conference, because only 3% of creative directors were women. And I was an associate creative director with in a small agency working on beauty clients, of course, with one other female creative director. And we were the only two. And so I was like such a strange thing for me to be like, oh, wait, like I'm an anomaly? I did not even know this. Um, but I love what you said. I agree with you. I think some of the best business ideas come from anger, especially from women, right? Because there are problems in the world that can be fixed. And then also, like, so anger is the opportunity, and then you have to take the opportunity and then maximize it, like you were saying. Make that website, create those books, and create the workbooks and spin off the podcast. Like, we are strategic people, right? We know how to make a dollar stretch, you know, how to get the most out of like the planning and the time and all this stuff. It's like, why would you not do that with an opportunity as well?

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Yeah, absolutely. So, so the idea is that we're focusing on the 1980s this year and next year. We've already secured uh uh the same space and we're going to do the 1990s. So when we started in the 1990s, a little younger, and um, and there's a whole I already have a list of them because they I had to check, you know, and find out what did you sell in the 80s? No, no, I sold in the 90s. Okay, well, you'll be next year.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Gotta wait till next year. That's right. Well, tell folks a little bit where they can find out more about this event and where it is.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Yeah, so we're having actual in-person events in Dallas at University of Texas Dallas, which is they have a wonderful sales excellence program there. And it is April 22nd in the evening, is a reception where we're recognizing all of the um people that we've nominated. And then the next day is a day of learning. So it's all about sales, leadership, and mentorship on uh all day long on the the 23rd of April.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yeah, and we still have tickets, and if anyone references this show, I would be happy to honor that early bird price. So love it.

Moving From IC To Leader

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Ah, I love it. Thank you for that. That's great. We will make sure we include some of that information as well in the show notes. All right, I'm taking extra notes too because Lori, you're giving me so many ideas. So many ideas. I love this. All right, let's talk about, let's see, for women who are currently individual contributors in sales roles that want to move into a leadership role. Um, what's the advice that you find yourself giving most often that maybe they're not already hearing?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Yeah, well, first find ways to get good self-awareness so that you know where your strengths are and and if you're, you know, what you're lacking in. We're all lacking in different areas, and and start thinking of ways to work on it. I always thought of myself as a lifelong learner. So I wanted to learn everything I could about communication, I wanted to learn about negotiation, I wanted to learn about um anything that involved that was connected to selling. And so that is one thing that I would do. And then I would take on a project or two, not everything, don't be the volunteer that does everything for everybody, but take on a project that could be high visibility within the organization, and you end up becoming a leader without the title yet. And so I like that strategy, and then you work into getting the title and the pay increase. Um, to me, that's one of the best, especially in a time like this where people are not offering raises maybe, or you know, quick to promote, um, but to have have a plan and and help be helpful first, lead with that, and then and the the rest usually should follow, but not always, because some people get stuck helping everybody with everything. And I'm not I'm not recommending that.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

No, I love that. Putting that line in the sand is so important, Lori, because I think a lot of us do we'll burn ourselves out with doing all of the work work at work, and then we'll do the emotional labor at work. We'll be the ones to plan and host the holiday parties at work. But then I'm like, why are you doing this? No man would ever agree to do this kind of voluntary work. Like, unless your plan is to move into an event planner and coordinator and you want to show those skills there, like why? Why would you take on unpaid labor in addition to the work that you're probably already getting underpaid for? This is also like, I'm just gonna soapbox for like a half second and then I'll get off it, I promise. But this is really where I get rah about like ERGs, which honestly, unfortunately, a lot of those have started to kind of fade and go away. There's no funding. But then also, I think women just got tired of trying to fix a problem they didn't create. And so, like, you have these employee resource groups that are for LGBTQIA and people of color and women, and we're all sitting here scratching our heads going, like, but we didn't make this problem. And you but company, you want us to make you all feel like you're doing the right things and make other people like us feel more seen and heard. Like, no, no, that's your job as the company to do, you know?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's what I I tell women that too when they say, I'm not really happy in my role, I don't feel respected, I don't, you know, I I I don't feel like they really are glad I'm here. And I say, Well, it's on them to make you feel that. Well, it's you know, if you don't feel it, you should be out opening your eyes and seeing what else is out there because they're not going to change, most likely. And and it's not up to you to get them to change, it's on them. And if if they're not, you know, if they're not making it a welcoming place where, you know, um it's it's just not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yeah. Well, because it's not just a paycheck. It's like it's like that's like a relationship, right? If you came home to somebody that never acknowledged you, that never showed appreciation, that never gave you your dues, would you be like, I I have to stay? I mean, sometimes, yeah, we do because we have to learn. Yeah. But like at the same time, it's like, golly, like in that sense of a relationship, I mean, just because they're cutting you a paycheck doesn't mean they won't cut you because you are a number. And it's not that I don't want to see people loyal to where they work, but I think I've seen a lot of women die on some pretty big hills and put a lot of their career on the line.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

My saying that I love is is go where you're celebrated, not tolerated.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Oh, I like that one. I'm gonna put that one away in my back pocket for later. Why put up with toleration? You know? Oh, and I love that. But I will say quickly one more thing on the volunteering, because I think it's important. Like we've painted this picture of let's not maybe go over here and overextend ourselves, but be strategic in your volunteering. And I think I'm a great example of that. Honestly, um, I started as a member of this organization and a president of a local board chapter. Like I wouldn't be running not just one, but two businesses now if it wasn't for volunteering. And what it allowed me to do was as somebody who was, you know, a creative director and kind of pegged to somebody who couldn't potentially run a business, apparently. Um, I got on a board and I just shared off my operational chops. And all of a sudden I was training all the other boards how to operate. And that helped the founder see me and go, okay, you've got some skill here. I'm gonna go do this thing. How about you run this company for me? And I was like, wait, what? But it had everything to do with me just showing up and doing a good job as a volunteer, you know?

SPEAKER_02 41:49

And also you don't have to do it forever. So it when I moved to Boston, for example, I um I moved there and I had started my own business and no one knew me in that way. And I got involved with an organization that was high visibility, that was rapidly growing, that you know, it was really good. I I worked hard as a co-chair of the Boston chapter, but I met so many people and got so many connections. And and then there's a point where you go, okay, now it's time for someone else to do it, because you don't have to do it forever. And someone, what I learned you know, a long time ago is that if you move away, because I was uh volunteering in Seattle when I moved across the country, it's like it will the organization will not crumble. I mean, they they they're not relying that you think that it's all on your shoulders and no one can do the job like you do, but you know what? They figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

They do. I think that is like the other thing too. I'm gonna take a quick little picture of us because I want a picture for later. And then I also want to post your go where you are, celebrated, not tolerated. That's gonna stick with me. Um but yeah, what did you say right after that? Because I got distracted taking my picture.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Uh just about being in Boston and and volunteering for us that it's okay to do for a certain amount of time, that you even if it's more than you want to do, just do it for a year, you know, and and that can be really valuable as well.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

It was the connections too, right? The networking. That's immense. Like honestly, like I built such a reputation for myself by just volunteering, you know, strategically for the things that mattered to me. Like people knew what I stood for, and that's how the right opportunity to run my second business came from. So yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Strategic volunteering, that's the phrase.

AI In Sales And Human Advantage

SPEAKER_00 43:38

That's a really good phrase. Yeah, no, I love it. Great advice. All right, we would be remiss not to mention good old AI in a podcast because you know it's everywhere and we know it's not going away. It's AI. It's listening to us right now. Um, reshaping sales, it's reshaping sales in so many other industries faster than any other function. From what you're seeing is the opportunity, is this an opportunity for women or do you feel more of a risk when it comes to sales? And what should they be paying attention to right now when it comes to AI? Because there's just a lot going on. There's a lot of noise around it.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Well, I feel it's a great time for women to get into sales if they haven't, and if they're in it, um, to just kind of, you know, improve their chops, you know, so to speak, and to understand how AI can help us do our jobs. It can streamline things so many ways, um, but it can't do everything, at least not now. And I figure there's, you know, a number of years, there's a window, just like when the internet came about in the late 90s, you know, early 2000s, everybody was like, oh, you know, all the bookstores are gonna go under. And some of them did, right? But not all of them, because those mom and pop bookshops that had um book clubs and uh did all these personalized things, they're still thriving, you know, years later. So it's changed, and we have to learn how to adapt to it. So it's not like you don't have to do a thing and everything will be perfect. That that's not what I'm saying, but you need to learn about AI, see how it can be your workmate and your stream streamline the the manual things that everybody hated to do anyway, and and you know, take advantage of that. And then and what women can bring is is the sense of um just the communication skills and rapport building and community building, like you were talking about earlier, and um and just also there are all sorts of different skills, empathy, um AI doesn't have any of that for sure. So we bring that in spades, and and so it's a great time, it's a great time to be in sales.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

I agree with you. It's a very good complimentary tool, and honestly, hiding away from it and being afraid is isn't going to serve you. So you kind of just got to dive in and use it to your advantage. I love that. That's great advice. All right, so you built um score more sales and women sales pros simultaneously. So the consultancy and the advocacy work. How do you think about those two missions? And did they ever pull in different directions, or do you feel like they're very aligned?

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Well, I I need them to be aligned because I only have so much energy and bandwidth. So what's great is that Yeah, Score More Sales is a sales strategy firm and getting more women into sales is part of the strategy of building inclusive sales teams. So to me, it ties in um very well. And I do my best work when they're connected like that.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

I agree. I agree. That and I think we're very similar in that sense. It's like I just always want there to be a through line, you know, like a thread that kind of goes through because again, it's like strategically smart as well, right? We like to work smarter, not harder.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yeah, and people need to understand that you're not just one or the other. Yes. You know, if you come combo.

What Leaders Should Do This Week

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Good point. I love that. All right, one last question, and then we're gonna go to I'll check the chat and see if there's any questions, and then we'll go into our power round, um, which is a set of lightning round questions to wrap things up. Yeah, no pressure. It's all good. It'll be fun. All right. So, you know, say a company leader is listening right now at a sales organization. Um, and they genuinely genuinely want to do better. This is kind of where that whole empowering our allies comes in. Um, better by their women in their sales org. What are the what's the first concrete thing you would tell them to do like this week? It's a a male leader. Um, I would say a company leader in general, yeah. But if you want to dissect it.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah, I would say go to the people and ask them what they need. Uh, I I think of a good male ally that I've known for years, and he, you know, he thought and I thought he was doing a really great job, but he asked the women on his team, like, Am I doing enough? Should, you know, what else should I be doing? And he got better feedback from them. And and that was tremendous because he was open to it, and then he was able to shift and be even stronger.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

You're only gonna benefit from it, fellas. Give it a try. We promise it'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

That's the best first step is to listen and don't, you know, don't walk in and start telling everybody what to do, but ask the questions and get the feedback and then do you know, do what you will from there.

Power Round And Closing

SPEAKER_00 48:39

That's fantastic advice. All right. We're good in the chat for now. If you've got questions, drop them in there. If not, feel free to connect with Lori on LinkedIn or check her out through her website, which we'll include in the show notes as well. And we love the questions, so don't be shy about sharing them if you've got them. Well, if you are shy about it, definitely just reach out to Lori. Um, all right. Uh, our power round questions. One word that describes where women in B2B sales are right now. Um, climbing, growing. Love it. Love it. Finish this sentence. The uh best sales manager I ever had was a man named Al Martin.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

He came from IBM and he taught me, he used to pace, and we would, I was in field sales, so we would go to an office and wait to meet the the executive. And sometimes you'd have to wait and wait and wait in the waiting room. And Al would pace back and forth, and he would make people so anxious because he was a big man. And and they would get, you know, they'd scurry in and say, Oh, you know, is is Mr. Smith coming out? Because this this guy's kind of pacing. And then he'd look at his watch and he'd go, Okay, we'll give him five more minutes. And then we'd say, he'd say, Well, we need to reschedule. And and I just learned about respect and you know, being respected for being in a sales role, which isn't always the case in sales.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

I love that. I love that story. That sounds amazing. It sounds like an awesome guy. All right, something that you wish someone would have told you in your first year of sales for all our newbies out there.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Negotiate your salary. That's my number one. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

And like you said earlier, that's you demonstrating your skills and abilities for the job. So if like anything else, just like use it, do negotiate for that.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Yeah, I got brought into a company to speak uh about um my tips, and I mentioned that one, and I thought, oh, the company hired me to come in. I hope they're not mad that I'm telling all the women that they should negotiate their salaries.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

So but it's the right people will hire you then. The right people will hire you then, right? So, like that was the thing too. Like with this new business I'm running, it's a co-working space. I loved that the community manager straight up negotiated right out of the gate. I did not expect it from somebody so young and a woman. So I was even myself taken aback. But so I will tell you, like, I'm probably more likely to hire you because you actually tried to negotiate. That tells me so much about you. Um, not that I would even start lowballing anybody, um, but it was really, it was really great to see sort of that strategic thinking.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Um it's just something women don't tend to do. You know, we just we were raised to just accept take what we're given and just be happy about it.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

All right. A belief, last one, a belief that women in sales uh you used to hold that you've completely changed your mind about.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Um, I used to feel kind of down about um things not changing, about progress not happening so fast. And now I see really great companies that have evolved with great leadership and great women leaders. There's so many amazing female leaders now. Uh on my post I did um today, I mentioned all these different organizations for women in sales and communities and clubs, and and those weren't around before. So I champion those and I I cheer everybody on doing that.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

I love it. That's fantastic. And it is, I agree with you. We're seeing more and more of it. Um, women are standing in their power in a lot of different ways, in a lot of different like moments in society and whatever. So yeah, it's very, very, it's very exciting to see. Well, Lori, thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation. Thank you for spending your time with us in our amazing community here at Together Digital. Yeah. Make sure where can um folks go to find you and get their hands on those tickets.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

I think LinkedIn is a really good way, but please mention in the connection request, if we're not connected, that you heard this um this interview because I get lots of them. And I I I, you know, it you're making it easy for people if you can customize it and mention this. And then I'll I'll click on, I'll accept it right away.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Perfect. I love it. Uh this is so great, Lori. Score more sales, anything score more sales online. Yeah, that's where I am. You got your gal now. You know who to go to. All right, Together Digital Community, you also know the drill. If this conversation fired you up, please share it. Tag someone who needs to hear it, um, whether it's a coworker, friend, a boss. And if you're ready to be a part of the community of women who are actively choosing to share their knowledge, power, and connections, check us out, join us at togetherindigital.com. Until then, everyone, thank you for joining us. Thank you for listening live. Thank you for listening after the fact. Thank you again, Lori, for sharing your power. Until then, everyone, keep asking, keep giving, and keep growing. We'll see you next time.