She Didn’t Switch Paths—She Leveled Up

What does it look like when you combine data, creativity, and purpose into one career?

In this episode, BGDE founder and CEO Kara Branch sits down with Isabel, a Senior Data Advisor whose journey proves that you don’t have to choose between technical and creative—you can build a career that blends both.

From studying computer science to working in business intelligence and transitioning into user experience and advisory roles, Isabel shares how she navigated her path with intention, curiosity, and confidence. She breaks down what her role actually looks like day-to-day, how data drives real business decisions, and why storytelling is just as important as technical skill in today’s workforce.

This conversation is especially powerful for students who feel pulled in multiple directions—those who are both analytical and creative—and are trying to figure out where they fit.

Isabel reminds us that growth isn’t about starting over—it’s about leveling up.

🎧 Tune in to learn how to build a career that reflects all of who you are—and why the future of STEM needs both logic and creativity.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Welcome to back to Black Girls Do Engineer podcast. I'm Clara Branch, engineer, mom, and founder and CEO of Black Girls New Engineer. Today's episode is for anyone who's ever been told to pick one lane. Because sometimes you don't switch paths, you level up. I'm joined by Isabel. She's a data advisor, a singer data advisor working at the intersection of data, design, and technology. Her journey shows us that blending technical skills with creativity is in confusion, is power. This conversation is about growth, flexibility, and owning every skill you bring to the table. So welcome, Isabel to the podcast. Hi, Isabel. Hello, thank you for having me. Oh, thank you for joining me. I always love talking to you. So a little backstory. We've known each other a while. So it's probably like the first year of Black Girls to Engineer. You have served as a mentor with the program and have been a part in so many ways. So we we know each other. And I have watched you from like the mentor to working to doing so many things. And you're making not just impact in your career, you're making impact in the community, and you're creating opportunities too for things that you feel that's important to you that people need to be educated on. So I'm so excited that you are here. Excited to be here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

So let's tell the people about yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are. You did such an amazing job with the intro. Goodness. Let me fill the blanks in, I guess. It's so hard. But yeah, I started my career back in 2017. I graduated in 2016 with a bachelor's in computer science, a little thing called the pandemic hit. And during that time, I had a moment of reflection of what I wanted to do with my life in terms of my career. Because up to that point, I was in data as a business intelligence analyst. And I made my way to a job listing for a user experience designer. And that was new to me at the time. I hadn't really understood what that role was. But I was working with a subsidiary of the Home Depot at the time. And that gave me access to an award-winning UX team where I was being mentored in this field. Throughout that time, I decided, okay, this is of interest to me because up to that point, as a BI analyst, I was solving business problems. And I wanted to solve more user problems or what I deemed to be real-world problems, essentially. So that encouraged me to pursue a master's in human-computer interactions, Iowa State University. And upon while still doing my courses, again, we're still in pandemic time. I was able to land a job as a user experience researcher. And this worked really well for me because I have been all things data. And as a researcher, I was still doing all things data. It was just in a different lens. We're always talking about qualitative and quantitative in the field. So it was a mixture of both. I'm not just looking at numbers anymore. I'm also looking at the interactions between people and what that makes them feel when they're doing something. I mean, we've all been there. We use an app, it doesn't do what we need it to do. We get frustrated. So bridging that gap. And just a little bit of insight, I pivoted careers back into a more traditional data sense, a senior data advisor, because I wanted to get a promotion. I'm pretty ambitious and I have long-term goals. And a promotion to being a senior was in my roadmap. So that was an availability. And the role really encompassed a lot of my previous technical background as well as my user background, because I still have to interact with stakeholders and find their needs and now bridge the gap between technological, technological gaps that they might be facing in day-to-day, and how can we provide such solutions to them? And outside of work, as you mentioned, I do a lot of volunteering, mentoring, a community is really important to me. I'm also a dog mom and I am a martial artist. Yeah, every time you say that, I always get surprised.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

So that just lets people know like how you just do your own thing, right? You don't let anything mind you, and you create your own paths for sure. And so love the dog mom too. So a little bit more on the user experience part. I I love user experience. People don't never think about how much work goes into that. Mostly people think like they just log on to their app or or whatever platform, and they never think about the ease of use. And that's really what the user experience is. Let's talk a little bit more about the importance of that role. I know it's very important because I've worked with a lot of UXUI designers to do a lot of beta testing. There's a lot of testing that goes into it to really work with people to understand like when you're logging into something, how easy is it for you to use? And so let's talk a little bit about like the importance of user experience.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Yeah, I will date myself a bit in saying I remember back in the days of the internet when it started to become like super accessible, not just in labs and schools anymore, but like people had computers in their homes. And that was like the big purchase that was like, uh man, I really want internet. It seems so cool. Websites were atrocious, but you know, there's definitely a charm to that. And you really had to know how to use this platform still, even the early 2000s, to access things. And I remember taking classes on how do you type, how do you make a website? And this was websites on now. We have like Square and stuff like that, but no, it was like HTML, and you're basically a little entry-level coder at that time. But nowadays we go on apps and we just drag and drop, and we can have instantly a business of our own in like a course of a week versus like a course of several months, perhaps. Don't get me wrong, it still is a lot of work to make something like that, even an app, like it what goes into it takes effort and testing, as mentioned, with people who would actually use that. And the reason we do that and why that's so important is because if you create something that people don't like, especially now in the day and age of an attention economy, they're not gonna use your app, they're not gonna use your product, they're not gonna interact, they're not gonna engage. And from a business standpoint, that means you're losing money. From a community standpoint, and I'm gonna use government websites, that means you're not providing easy information and access to your citizens. Because you know, government websites are kind of infamous for not being very good and they're still kind of stuck in their era. But this stuff is important because you want your public to be informed. You want, as a business, to be able to meet profits and reach a wider audience, but also you want it to be accessible. That's one thing I always advocate for is accessibility to people with disabilities, people the elderly. Now we need to start thinking about the newer generations that have grown up with iPads kind of attached to them and what that looks like as we move into the future, because that might very well change how we interact with technology in the next five to 10 years.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

Oh, I agree so much. And I feel like you have like a certain time span to really like connect with the user. I know from like a nonprofit perspective, like that's something we really consider with donations. Like, how easy and how quick can this person complete this form? Because if you have to go through multiple steps, you these days you're not gonna do that. Um, I love how you went back in time to the dowel therapy. It was definitely a different time. I remember having getting a computer was a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

You're home, and you had to wait for the internet towel up to just really use them.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

That was God forbid someone calls.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Yeah. And we're not that old to everyone who's watching and listening.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Yeah, you may think that I might be old, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

No, it was just our time, right? That's right. It has transitioned, and and that ease of use is very important. And I think sometimes people don't give UXUI designers their credit of how much they really help people out, or sometimes I don't even think people reach out to hire them as much as they should. Yeah, um, I think that's a very important step that's skipped quite frequently. If you're not working with someone to help you design, I know these days a lot of things are easy to access, or you can do things very quickly with a lot of resources now. But if you're not having someone check in and really engaging with your clients who's going to be using it to do that testing and make sure it is user-friendly, you could be missing a lot of opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

So I do even like a business owner, like especially in the age of AI, the market is saying you can be a whole team by yourself. One, I don't really agree with that because it's called burnout and it's real and you shouldn't do that. But two, also when you're like when you are a business owner, a single individual, CEO, web designer, marketer, etc., you can get tunnel vision and you start thinking, oh, because I made this, I created this, uh, people should get it. But no, unfortunately, not everyone's brains work like you. So that's why it's important to like have a testing audience to call out those things that you might not have been aware of or might have missed.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Absolutely. I am all for it. I am I'm definitely teen. You X UI designers, I have used quite a few on my business journey journey. And to that now, burnout is real and is happening quite frequently. Um, and from a founder CEO perspective, like you wear a lot of hats, and sometimes you have to put people in places to take that load off of you. So that's my spiel. I love you, X UI. That is my spiel. I love you, X UI. I understand the importance of it. So let's talk about like your day-to-day. So, like when you go in, first of all, kudos to getting your promotion, your own. Thank you. That's important. I used to tell people too, like, you got to create your own lane. And sometimes that means switching companies, do what you gotta do, but to get your promotion, and you have gotten yours. So let's talk about what it looks like in your role as a senior data advisor.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Yeah, so it's a lot of meetings because I'm engaging with a lot of different people. We're we overlook an entire department, gas transmissions in my company, and that's build up of many different teams. And ideally, what we want to have happen is everyone is aware of what projects are being done for this year because we have a thing called a budget and we don't get infinite amount of money, so we got to get approved for things. We want to make it accessible for our teams too, to have an area where they can go look at what they've uh submitted as their projects for the year and the timeline of what that is. This is a roadmap, and you know what stage is it in. Is it still being planned? Is it taking off? Is it near the finish line? All that good stuff. So that's that one point of it. The other point is also talking to said people in the department and then understanding where we can help create technology use cases for them. So there might be some needs where they might have they might want something automated, for example. You know, we have this one person that has to go into an Excel sheet and they've got to look for the number and make sure it exists in another Excel sheet. How can we automate that? How can we just say with a click of a button, hey, scan this document and see if these records exist in this other document? So that's like that is a use case that we find very often, especially in my type of work, the energy sector. And again, that's that's experience, that's user experience because I don't know if you've ever had to do something so manually like that. It's tedious, redundant, upsetting, exhausting. If you could just wave a magic wand, as we like to say in the world of UX, and just at a click of a button fix this one very daunting task, it saves you a lot of hours. And that's just an example of one of the technology gaps that can exist there. I mean, it's so simple, but yet so, so, so, so demanding. And it can range from that to something as we need to make sure that we have eyes on our pipelines and that we understand on a day-to-day basis how much energy is moving through them, and we need to have access to that, and people need to make decisions based off of that, and that's a big complex thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Yes, especially um now. Well, I know many years ago I know some people were still trying, but many years ago, people started talking about digital transformation and getting to more of a digital world. You know, many people know that I always say I was supposed to be a data engineer, so this is like my world. I love this conversation because automation that's a key word. I feel like many people who deal with data is not an easy job at all, especially with the digital transformation. So many things are in Expel Excel spreadsheets. Some things are just not there. You don't have any documents for anything, everything's on paper. And if it is in an Excel spreadsheet, it's missing a lot of information. Yeah, there's a lot that goes into like finding those missing pieces, and that's where the whole like cleaning and sorting and data all come about most of the time. And the beauty of it, like that magic wand you're talking about, is once you have all that squared away and you implement automation, like the world is it's really beautiful. Like it's just those click of a buttons, you're able to pull quicker and things like that, which is very important for companies, especially like for me. I use it mostly from like a metrics perspective. So, like I can tell like my donors, hey, this is the impact made, or those numbers, or all those things, because it's automated, right? It's a click of a button. You know what it is. And it's a beautiful job. It is a job that every company wishes they had somebody doing to clean up their data and give them the report out that they need because it can help you generate revenue a lot of times, it can help you find those lags in your system. It can help you do a lot. Yeah, and a lot of times it's a very hard job to do. Like I know Isabel makes it sound like the most great place because she's a pro in it, but it's a really hard job. It is. I skipped over the ugly. Yeah, yeah. The meaty parts is kind of like part of the ugly. We need to all find ways to do better use of time, especially being a digital age, those meetings. I know. But like it can change a company's life, that that automation, especially because we're in such an AI world. Like, I love talking about data so much first because people don't understand how it's so important to have artificial intelligence. And so it's I'm just lighting up really over here talking to the world that I wish I was supposed to be in. But like you mentioned, like that automation piece. I don't think people understand uh how like for you to be able to have like your knowledge and do that for a company, there's so many gaps there. I don't think people understand that there's so many people out there that there are. Yeah, it's not a lot of people who are not implementing any data engineers or anything data into their daily workflow. A lot of times, because there's such a big demand for data engineers, anyone who works in data, and there's a big price tag.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

There is. Yeah. And I want to loop this back to user experience as well. So we also are very neglective of the user experience that comes with AI. I know that within the recent years, post chat GPT, you know, that's been the whole thing. AI, AI, AI. And we see a lot of AI content now on social medias, but it's really funny because it comes off as so advanced when we look at these things. Like, wow, Will Smith now looks like he's actually eating spaghetti, but it's not there still, even though it's being marketed as there. We forget that this is still very technical. If we bring it into a workspace, um, it's going to look like someone needs to know how to actually engage with it and put a prompt in. And that it's not user-friendly at all. You have to have working knowledge of it. And then we go back to the data standpoint. People I it's also very misleading for companies too, and especially like maybe more mid-small to mid-sized companies, because it's being marketed as either you have the data already, which is like you mentioned, a giant cost, and it has to be clean, it has to be sorted, there has to be a team that's actually making it good data to use because there is bad data, or you need to go purchase that data from a company that has said data, and that's price tag, too. So it's like pros and cons. And because a lot of companies aren't there yet, and even if you're a data first company, there's still a lot of work that needs to go into there. I would say very few companies are at a point where they're just like, we've got all this data, Google, so we can make these AI bots do everything. But even using Google as an example, look at how Gemini was interacting with users when it first came out. Information was so incorrect, and they're probably still incorrect in some cases. So this opens up the conversation of also needing users to have digital literacy.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Yeah, it's just a vicious. That's what I was exactly about to say. You've like read my mind, like digital literacy, AI literacy is so real in our community, and and it's um something I've been preaching like all of last year when I'm working with the youth, because people don't realize, like we realize because we use the technology and we have the background to understand like what's going on, and you're such a rare CEO because you are technical, so you understand.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Um not trying to throw shade at other executives, but they're so far up the ladder and so far removed from what's actually there that they're being shown the the shiny thing, the golden nuggets.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

But yeah, we've done understand all of that. And and I because I live and breathe it. Like I used to run a department around it too. So like I live and breathe it, even as my own, like working for my org. It's a lot that's not known there. But one thing I can give credit to for some of these people who are innovative. These technologies, they're saying it out of their mouths. They're actually very surprised too how people have just adapted. And I always mention to the youth about checking, right? Are you checking? Are you making sure stuff is accurate and correct? Because the technology is not there yet. AI for sure has been around since people. I always tell people this to they get so like, what? Like the 1950s when it was first introduced. And now here we are, like it's really moves fast. It has these past few years, but it has a long way to go. And that's the part that people do not understand at all. And it should be used for certain things and certain things only. And when I like play with AI, I don't think about it as like, what can I like have it do, like as far as like benefiting me or getting ahead, right? Which most people use it for that, which they should be using as some type of tool to help them. I think about it as like training a model. Like I'm having a good time, like training the model to do what it needs to do for me. You gotta train this piece. Your agent. Yeah, you have to train it. And most people don't think about it that way, you know, and that's why it's becoming so clear when it's used. There's a lot that goes into it. I can talk about this like for hours. I do. But it's just like the I I want to get back to like the data literacy piece because it's true. We was just like awarded a major grant from one of the best foundations, I open AI. And it's for that. They believe in us enough to know that we know what we're doing. Well, man, let's pop open a bottle. That's big. And they were able to fund into us to be able to bring this to our community. So we've been like, we've been doing this for our community, but this has given us a big support to just like open the door wide open and do so much more around AI literacy because it's a real thing, and people are not really understanding it. I know from our community, it was stuff they didn't understand around exposure for STEM already. So this is just adding another extra layer of a gap there. So I I'm right there with you. Like it's um, I know what it looks like in a community. I haven't, you know, worked in industry for about two years, so I don't know what is currently going on in industry too much about it, but I can only imagine because I've sat in C-suite positions when I was there of like people just trying to adapt to the time.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Yeah. But there's just been such a push, and it's just like I think the push was a little misguided. We should have done more as industry professionals, and me being still in industry, there should have been a lot more opportunity to explore, and that looks longer than just a single year. Um and you know, the way companies are just putting it in everything and just shoving it down a consumer's throat, again, it's not there yet. And I have had some interactions with AI in products I use that have just been very unpleasant. And again, it goes back to it being also just usable at a consumer level. Don't make me use AI, don't integrate AI into your platform if it's not gonna do what I need it to do. And a lot of times, half more than half of the time, it's not gonna do what I need it to do because I'm being learning from us. That's what people don't realize.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

It's learning from us, and uh it's it's a lot that needs to happen around it, period. And I'm having we had this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

This is a great way to start off the 2026, because this is the conversation that I've been having all last year, mostly with myself, or you know, my husband works closely with me, so all time with him about how can we help people understand what's really going on, and you know, it starts with just uh removing the gap of person and technology, and that's why STEM is very impactful, especially in the technology space, is it's so integrated into our day-to-day lives, and there are still many, many people that don't know how to properly use their devices or the internet or anything, and we don't make it accessible for them. So it's like putting the layer behind digital literacy, AI literacy, it's also just basic technology. Base, I say basic because again, like for you and I, we've been using this, but basic technology literacy, just breaking it down so that someone who hasn't had to touch this for a majority of their life that's now being thrown in a world where everything has to be some sort of technology engagement is able to adapt easily into it.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

Yeah. And like I can really say from this conversation that the community is very grateful to have me give my expertise back to the community, and the industry is very grateful to have you give your time and your knowledge to help them build this out because many, many companies are lacking that. So kudos to us. And so, on that note, like for the youth, let's give them some help because my goal after this conversation is they become the next you, right? In industry. And so you've went all the way up to your master's degree. Let's talk about your college journey. Like, how is that for you? And give me the real because I always tell like the youth I work with, like getting a STEM degree is hard. It is, but not impossible. That's always my key barrier. And so I like them to understand how much they have to put into it, how much math, how much coursework, time management skills. So let's talk about your college journey on your way to your career.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

At the time, and I don't know if this is still the case, but when I was pursuing my computer science degree, computer science was the most dropped-out degree plan, even more so than medical field degrees. And that just kind of goes to show how daunting it can be. And I look at that now, and again, I go back to the it's like that because we did a very bad job up to that point teaching people about technology. And computer science wasn't something that I was on my radar when I was entering school. Originally I wanted to do graphics design, and that kind of you know goes later on into my career. But I thought with a computer science degree, since that was what was offered at my university, not graphics design and a combo of an arts uh minor, I could probably just like have a broad enough understanding that I could still go into these to this field. And I try to make my coursework reflect that. But it was yeah, those university years, they were rough. I always say this. I'm like, if you find yourself knowing what you want to do, and if you can stick to it, you know, you go through those years of hell and then you go out the other side, and then you make your money, and then you could do whatever you want. Because as I've mentioned throughout this career, you know, I do a lot outside of work. I don't let my job define who I am. I love my free time, I love going back to community, I love doing what I want to do. And I set myself up in a way when I was doing my my degree later into it, because I was like, okay, maybe graphics design is not gonna be the path for me because uh those those uh paychecks aren't looking the best. And I do want to be clear paychecks aren't everything, right? Uh, there's a lot more that goes into finding fulfillment in your role, but it was a really big motivator for me because I came from a socially economical background that wasn't very well off. And I wanted to give better for myself. So that's what motivated me to start looking into different career paths that could then so elevate me into a lifestyle that is appropriate for me. So it was a lot of work to get my bachelor's, but through you know, you build your community with your fellow students. And I was also president of my association for computer machinery club that we had there. So that helped build community, and I really tried to force a lot of my fellow classmates to go into that, and it was really hard too, because it's a lot of guys, and you could be like one of five girls in a classroom full of men. And you know, when men, what men are like, when a woman goes up to them, they're like, Hey, you should do this because it'll be beneficial for us. Luckily, a lot of my classmates, while we were college students and we were younger in age, they weren't difficult and they weren't they weren't opposed to the idea of fellow women being in this, you know, we were all just classmates, so it was helpful. But I know that's not the case for a lot of ladies, and that's the real part too. Like, you have to find community where you can. And when you're in a male-dominated of male-dominated field, it's not always going to be there. It's hard, especially now. Like, we could get into a different topic about male loneliness epidemic, but that's not that's not what we're talking about here. That impact that's impactful, that matters, that does dictate what your environment looks like as you're going through this. And I mention that because as a woman, that's an added layer. You have to go into your classes and you have to show face, you don't get to cry. If you're gonna cry, you better find a private area and you do it there. That's the real because the moment men see a sign of what they deem weakness, the respect is gone. And then there's just like men microaggressions towards you. And again, I am happy to say that it wasn't like that for the most part for me. But the fellow ladies that I spoke to at the time when doing my bachelor is like, they were like, Yeah, there are times that I want to I get so frustrated because it's just so hard and I just want to cry. But because I'm around all these guys, like I gotta go to the restroom or I gotta find some place where they're not gonna see me, and then I just gotta get myself together and act like nothing happened. So there's a lot of suppression and emotion. And you know, that sucks. I wish it wasn't like that. I wish that we just provided spaces where the expectation is this is frustrating for all of us. We all have emotions, we're all gonna go through this and we're all gonna express it differently. Hopefully, it's not in a violent tendency, and maybe we as a community can talk it out and be together and you know tackle this together. And if someone needs to cry, they need to cry because we all understand what it's like. Again, it's not the case, and even going into work when I was originally in a more male-dominated uh space.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

The I love that that you had to breathe to get it out completely understanding.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

The tech pro stereotype is alive and well. Oh my god. So let's just glance over that because we made it, we overcame, and it made me it made me into a more, I don't just want to say tougher individual, but a more I'm not gonna deal with your BS. Like we're all in this together. If I fail, you fail. So quit the crap and let's just get to work. So it's like there was a lot of learnings in that, and there was a lot of moments of frustrations for me, even in work, and it's just like still, I'm surrounded by men, and if I show weakness, it's going to come off somehow, and then the respect is thrown out the window, and I'm not taken seriously, and I'm already not being taken seriously, so flares, and it happens so frequently, and I do want to say touch on when you said tough.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

Someone told me a long time ago, and I think this is because we both have worked in oil and gas. They said if you work in oil and gas, you don't work anywhere. Because it's uh one of those industries that just has to, it makes you really, really tough.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

And you know, we have to accommodate for the male ego, because honestly, if you're a woman that knows too much, and this is all sarcasm, please. Like that's also just a challenge within itself. I will say, luckily, when I went into my masters, it was a space where a lot of that was removed. Like as you continue into your education, it's a no-nonsense. Like, I need this. So we're all going to succeed because it benefits the me. Um, and that was it was really nice to have that change of pace. But then you have to deal with the egos of the PhD students. We'll not get there because eventually I tend to be one, but yeah, I start saying freaking news, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:29

Isabelle's gonna get her PhD degree. No, so all that was great because that is exactly how you feel in those classrooms. There's not that many women, and what always bugs me out about that was women who I know have been in industry for like 30, 40 plus years have said the same thing or saying today. Yeah, so progress is most definitely need to be made. Yeah, you're already in this space. I know for me, and it's for sure. We come from similar backgrounds, like I come from an underserved community, and so you know, you go into these spaces, and now you're having to adapt in your studies from a cultural perspective from so many other reasons, and you just want to become engineer, get your computer science degree, you just want to do what you love, right? It's your passion, but you do have to encounter so many things, personalities. I should say, yeah, personalities along the way, and you don't see as many women, which is the same problem they had 40, 50 years ago. That's a big kicker, you know, to why I do the work with Black Girls 2 Engineer. But then from that point, you go into industry and it's the same, so you have to continue. It feels like a everyday fight, really, yeah, to be heard for sure. We don't get heard enough, no matter how much we prove ourselves, it's still to always just to be heard and really accepted into the space because it is very male dominant. And I didn't think you know, males are our allies, you know. Some of them will definitely have been my allies. I wouldn't have been her, I wouldn't have really moved up in my career without them, really. A lot, because that's all we have is men. So they're gonna be the ones really putting their self out there on the line for you. But it is hard to have to continuously prove yourself of an intelligence that you are continuously show in the workforce. And these degrees are hard, you know, they are very hard and challenging and uh most definitely require a certain smart. I always tell people if everybody could have been engineers, they would. There's a reason why we're a very small percentage of numbers because it's a really hard field to study for and get into, but it doesn't excuse the fact that we are still fighting to be heard, we're still having to deal with so much in the workplace. I'm very like for you to get your master's to hear that it was much better for you. I did my executive MBA and I really just liked it. I tell people mostly because it was an engineering. So it's like probably one of my degrees that I just did a breeze. It was a breeze for me because I felt like once I messed my engineering degree, I mean, boy, this is a whole different fun world with my yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

I will say that human computer interactions, and when I was looking for my master's degree, one of the qualifications for my school of choosing, because you know it's your choice, not the school's choice, was I want it to be more project-based. I don't want to sit in a classroom to just do exams all day. I don't learn that way. That's not my learning style. So when I found Iowa State, a lot of the professors there, and I would want this to be more true than not, but a lot of them were industry experts from the past. They worked for aerospace and airline and government and energy sectors. They were coming from their perspective of what it was like, but they also, I would say, were really good at still keeping up with current trends, which is hard in academia because academia is always gonna be like five years behind what's actually going on. And for technology, that might as well be a hundred years ago because it's so fast moving.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I working in tech, that's when I opened my eyes of how fast tech moves, and that's when I used to come home and tell my husband, oh my god, I gotta help people understand it. Then he used to be like, no, you can only do so much, right? But then, like, from a whole just to when you mention you wanted a project-based learning environment. For I don't think many people think about that. Um, a lot of times when you're thinking about your degree, you're thinking about the school, the reputation of the school. And so many people are hands-on learners, and they say, I want to learn hands-on. I have a lot of data from my the girls I work with that's always says, I want to learn hands-on, right? But nobody ever thinks about that in their college journey. They think about the cost of the school, which is important, but to really dive deep into what school can provide you with your learning style, like that's knowledge right there. I think most people need to consider that because I know I didn't. Just to consider for me, most people consider like who's gonna give me money to get this education, yeah, which is still important, but like what school am I, you know, I got accepted into and who can really offer me more to go there? A lot of people think about that, but you have to spend four to five years there. So be in an environment that works for you and can cater to your learning style. So I'm happy that you mentioned that. I have never heard anyone say that before.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Oh, I had a whole list, I had a whole list. They gotta be this, they gotta do that. I ain't taking a test to get in school, like all that stuff. And yeah, I think that it was very valuable for me because you know, while everyone wants to go to the big names like a Harvard or an MIT, etc. That environment, also, you gotta think about just what you're gonna expose yourself to. Are you gonna be put up for success, or are they gonna look at their star students there? And while it might look really good and impressive to bring up, I was a Harvard grad. What does that give you at the end of the day, though? You have to really work to make that degree actually be more than just a name on your resume. You really gotta be involved in that. And I often feel like in those types of spaces where it's so high, highly competitive and stuff, it's not gonna be the case where you're gonna find again that community that's going to also motivate you and lift you up. I would say you really have to put in like you have to have a full-time job on top of being a student, versus if you go to a school that's lesser known, where the educators are actually really excited to be there for their students, you know, try to express the opportunities and promote, well, we all hate them, um, group projects, but promote like what it means to actually work as a team versus working as a student that needs to make a grade with other students that need to make a grade.

SPEAKER_04 42:24

There's a difference with that, and that in industry knowledge, because a lot of times you don't really get a lot of professors who have worked in industry, yeah, to come back and give you that knowledge. So they spent they spent their lot of time, you know, dedicating themselves to research, which is still important. It is, but not like in the field, and so you get people from the field to come and give you their experiences, it can make a huge impact.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

I think the Harvard would work really well if you were trying to do research, because then the dynamic, then you're gonna get all the attention because that's important. Like, if you're looking to do research long term, then think about that too. But as an industry professional, like really think about like I when I wanted to do my degree, I want my my thing is to always be an asset and to know what I'm talking about. And I don't need to personally feel like I have to compete with like a hundred different other students to get that qualification under my belt. So that's that's another thing. Like these are things to think about. And again, uh or I should also say, like, if you make it into Harvard and you get a full scholarship and all that stuff, take it. But at the same time, go be wise about it. It's depending on your background, too, because you're also going to be surrounded by kids that had a lot more resources than you. How are you going to stand out? What are you gonna do to make yourself be on that level? And that's a The another added level of stress on top of schooling.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Yeah, and we preach here like really about those campus visits is which is key. We always encourage before you commit to any school, you go and see what it feels like to be there. Because many kids after that first semester are are transferring to different schools because of culture. Completely agree. So also, like after you've gotten your degree and stuff, you have worked in industry. I do want to ask you like, what skills do you think that the youth should be learning now?

SPEAKER_03 44:33

Well, as mentioned, that literacy, and I hope that we've broken it down enough in this podcast because it is very important. It's really important to understand what's a legitimate website versus a fake website. It's really important to understand what makes a good app experience versus a bad app experience. And it's really important to understand how AI works versus just asking it a question and then it's trying to please appease you. These things matter, and these things are going to make you be more industry forward, more of a thought leader, more highly regarded, just and really appraised for your skill sets and stuff. So it these are like I think people might consider them soft skills. And there's always the talk on how important soft skills are, in especially as you want to move up in your career. And I found that to be very true for me as well. Um, one thing I've always I did a talk, many talks last year, and the thing that the whole premise of was understanding business. Because while I'm in technology, if you want to keep going up the food chain of a corporate ladder, it gets more business oriented. And being someone that can bridge the gap between business and technology is really important because business folks understand business, technology folks understand technology. It is very hard to find someone that can talk to both. Yeah, it's like you're being a translator, quite literally. Like imagine you're in a foreign country of work and you're trying to talk to person that speaks language A and translate that to person that speaks language B.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

This is reality, and it's it and that happens so often in industry where you can't really relate. Because I know for like you know, people who are engineers and working as it's like very technical. This walk in here and fire blurring out all the technical lingo, and then you have to remember you're sitting in meetings of people who are not, but they also are very valuable to businesses, and so they have no clue what you're saying, but I think it's always been too in our defense, they always have always said we are very technical, but I think it's important for them to learn how to be technical. I think it has to be a very well-established balance of communication on both sides, so everyone should be well-rounded in their skill set. And if you work for a company, you need to know every part of it. I always tell people that too. Because that's how you get the end result, and most of the times the end result is money for the company. So I do want to start speaking on that more because I've for many years it's always been like you're very technical, you need to find out how to speak to other people. But I feel like this is an era, especially the one that we're in. I don't even feel like we're going, we're there now. This is the era where you have to have a lot of technical capability no matter who you are. That's right. Um, I have been preaching that for years, but like I have told people you need to know how to code. It's not about if you want to, if you need to, if you desire. Like you have to. We're there. We've are we have crossed over into a very technical dimension, and everybody's gonna have to understand these skills.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

And coding can be very simplistic. I think people think of it as just like a Python script. No, I mean, it could even be like your Excel document. Like you can code in that, you can do formulas, even knowing something like that's going to help you a little bit more down the line, too, because uh, you don't have to be a software engineer. That doesn't need to be your trade, but being able to speak to said software engineers so that you can get the results that you need in a way that they understand is important. And going back at it again, that is user experience.

SPEAKER_04 48:42

Absolutely, and it's so funny you say that because as a chemical engineer, I used to manage software engineers, so it was a lot of fun there communicating, but I had to learn their style, I had to learn their rhythm and how they work, and when they would say things to me that was more from a tech aspect, I did my part, my due diligence to understand what it was. So when we came back to the table, I'm meeting them where they are, so that is key. And so, my final question I would ask you, because you know I can talk to you forever, likewise, is so for for the youth that is listening, some young girl that's listening, you know, we've all are where we are now, right? From our hard work and determination, but it was a lot that we didn't know when we were younger. So, what would you tell a young girl who doesn't maybe know what she wants to be, or she may love computer science? Like, what kind of advice would you give her that you wish someone had told you?

SPEAKER_03 49:45

I'll go from a perspective of a high schooler heading into college, because I think that's like where that really starts getting crazy, and you're just like, ah, what do I do? I've mentioned a lot about community in this talk and how important it is and the power of it. If you want to get more of an understanding of a skill set or a type of business, or understand like what you want to do in life, you can go out to your community, probably find a nonprofit that needs said skill set or is willing to train you in said skill set, and that will help you get further down the line, and then you'll start actually getting real world experience on that because nonprofits need to exist, they do work, they are businesses as well, and that looks good, but also don't be afraid to ask people for help. I often use LinkedIn to find people that have qualifications or backgrounds and things that I like, would like to learn more about. And I did that when I was pursuing my masters. I made a list of my top three, and then I talked to students who had since who had since graduated alumni. And I was like, so what was your experience like? Can you tell me what you liked about the school, what you didn't like, and where are you now? And a lot of people were willing to give me 30 minutes of their time to just share that with me. So don't be afraid to reach out. I don't know what it's like nowadays for kids, but I was from a generation of don't talk to strangers, but now all I do is talk to strangers because unfortunately, strangers have what I'm looking for. So don't be afraid to be that introvert extrovert. If you, even if you're an introvert, you gotta find that balance that works for you. You know, make a schedule, be like, okay, this week I'm gonna talk to one person in this field, I'm gonna reach out to one person in this field because I want to learn more about it, and then take that time to regain your social battery after because I know that was a lot of work, so you deserve that rest.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

Yeah, yeah. Networking, that's what we call it. It's key. Many people do it to get those questions answered or get to where they need to get to. That's so funny that you said that. Strangers, do be safe though, in engaging people, of course. Be safe, yeah, be safe. And so that is the perfect way to like end this session, our podcast together is by asking for help. People don't do that enough. You have to ask for help. So, Isabel's story is a reminder that your journey doesn't have to look traditional to be successful. Learning, well, leaning into your skills, evolving, and choosing alignment over titles is how real growth happens. If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who is figuring out their next move or questioning their path. And remember, you don't have to switch who you are to level up. Thank you for listening to Black Girls to Engineer podcast. We see you in the next episode. To learn more about Black Girls to Engineer, visit us at Black Girls to Engineer.org or email us at info at Black Girls to Engineer.org.