Episode 1: EDI & Antiracism in Libraries- A Toolkit for Success with Marci Ramiro-Jenkins

Welcome to Overdue: Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries–A podcast produced by the Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Antiracism Committee of the Oregon Library Association (OLA).

This first episode features a discussion with Marci Ramiro-Jenkins, creator of the OLA EDI & Antiracism Toolkit, and a leading advocate and champion for EDI, antiracism and anti-oppression work in Oregon libraries and communities.

Date of interview: February 2, 2022
Hosts: Max Macias & Pia Alliende

OLA EDI & Antiracism Toolkit: https://bit.ly/3qSMDF7

Transcript

[Intro music playing…]

Max Macias:

My name is Max Macias. I'm an independent librarian in Oregon. I am part of the OLA's EDI and Antiracism committee. And we're putting together a series of podcasts for you.

Pia Alliende:

Hi, I am Pia Alliende, and I'm also part of the OLA EDI and Antiracism committee. This is our first episode of Overdue, weeding out oppression in libraries. And with us is Marci Ramiro-Jenkins, the person behind the equity, diversity, inclusion and antiracism tool kit for libraries. So, we're very excited to start a conversation with Marci about something that is long overdue. Good day, Marci.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Hi guys. It's such a pleasure to be here today and have this conversation with you guys. I am the current OLA vice president and the president elect, OLA, Oregon Library Association for those who doesn't know. And I also work in a library. I'm a reference librarian at McMinnville Public Library, and I was the first chair for the EDI Antiracism Committee, along with Alma Plasencia at the time. So, it's such an honor, and I'm very happy to be here.

Pia Alliende:

Yeah, no, we are happy that you are here. And so, for start the conversation, we thought that we can ask you little questions just to break the ice. So, the first one is, who is your hero?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Wow. I actually love this question because I love talking about my hero. My hero is my dad, his name is Edson Ramiro.  And in order to talk about my dad, I think I need to explain how he plays this role in my life as a hero. I kind of need to tell a little bit of his story and his story can trigger some people because he has some tragic events. So, just a heads up, but my dad grew up very poor in Brazil. He used to live in this very rural area and he start working in the fields when he was only eight years old. So, my dad had a very difficult childhood. He witnessed atrocities and adversities at a very young age. When he was about nine, he witnessed the murder of his two uncles and the same criminals that shot his uncles also shot his dad in the back and caused my grandpa to be paralyzed from the waist down.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And, this event was so traumatic to my dad's family that made them lose everything they had in order to try to find this cure for my grandfather, that have never happened. Because there was no cure for his type of paralysis. So, my dad took the role as a parent and started working in the field to help the family. And he used to go and worked very early in the morning in the fields. And then in the afternoon, he used to attend this rural school for a few hours. That's the way things were in Brazil back in those days. And he knew the only way out of poverty was through education. And then he was a very dedicated student. As the time progresses, he was able to actually attend a high school in a larger city, and he was the first person in his family to graduate from college and then to attend law school, to get a Juris Doctor (JD) degree . 

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

So, he lived most of his youth under military dictatorship, and he was this true revolutionary guy who fought the system, was a true activist. He knew people that were captured by the regime and tortured and murdered, and to make matters worse when he was only 18 years old, his mother died of a heart attack in his arms. So, you know I'm talking about all this tragedy events and I guess because, one is his life and I admire his level of maturity and strength. And what I'm going to say now, it might sound a little weird, but it will make sense. My dad, he was a white man, hundred percent European descendant, Spanish and Portuguese. And I am a mixed race individual raised by this white man and a mixed race white passing mother, darkest child of this couple. And I struggle a lot to fit in my family and with all the intricacies that a person of color goes through.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I actually realized I was a person of color at the age of six, when a group of white kids didn't want to play with me at a party, because according to them, I was brown and ugly. So, the minute my dad found out about this, I was like really nervous that he would say something or embarrass me even more. But he comforted me. And I think that's what happened, because I was six years old so I don't know if he really educated himself on how to act in situations like that, but I believe he did. And he comforted me the best way he could. And when I was a teenager and I face all the issues that youth of color face in their lifetime, like prejudice, colorism, profiling, he actually was the one who understood all that. And he actually understood my world with all the oppression, the colorism, the microaggressions, even before these things became mainstream.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And that was really complex for a white male and he played that role for me, creating my first and most effective ally. And he acted in a way that he never throw his difficulties that he went through in life as a justification. "Oh, no. Look at me. I am the one who suffered trauma. I am the one who have all those life experiences and I should be traumatized." He never did that. He actually create this very psychological safety around me, where I could share with him experiences. So, he showed me level of allyship that I never experienced. I don't think my mom or my siblings even know that, but I came to him once and I was crying and I said, "Dad, I am at this... I accept this job at this place. And I am being bullied every day and discriminated and humiliated every single day. But they really need me there. And I don't understand why they create this universe for me, if they need me so much."

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And he said, "Oh, you know, what you going to do? You're going to quit."

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I was like, "Dad, I can't do that. I have my bills to pay."

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And he said, "No, don't worry about your bills. I'll cover your bills, but are you going to quit? Because you don't have to go through those things." And that was a level of support that incredible to me, that I could count with a person in that profound way to walk with me through these issues. So, at my dad's funeral, last October, I saw something really amazing, a variety of people at his funeral. I saw this elite lawyers, doctors, government officials. And I also saw everyday people, my dad used to help and support and encourage and uplift. When I was at my dad's funeral, I saw this delivery guy parking his motorcycle in this place where we were, and he walked towards me and he asked me if I was my dad's daughter, because he recognized me from a picture he saw at my dad's office.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And told me with tears in his eyes, "I am just the delivery man but your dad was my friend. I start making deliveries for his law firm and he treated me like I was one of the lawyers too. And this really meant the world to me." And I was so proud of my dad in that moment, if I have any doubt that my dad was my hero. That moment I knew that he was. And again, he was my most effective, and understanding ally that I ever had. I know he loved me profoundly, and I feel he's still fighting for me from wherever he is right now.

Pia Alliende:

Wow. That is a very inspirational story, and thank you. Not too many people have heroes like yours and also such a thorough answer because a lot of people are like, "Oh, my hero is, I don't know Spider-Man and..." [inaudible].

Max Macias:

Yeah. Yeah.

Pia Alliende:

But one thing, just to give the context, where were you at when you said that you were six years old and you were like, kids were telling you that you were ugly and your dad was supporting you, where you in Brazil, were you here?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I was in Brazil. So, I was born in Brazil and I lived in Brazil until my early twenties. I moved after I finished library school. I packed my things and I moved to Canada to study English and pursued a career in business because that's what I really want to do. I became a librarian because my mom wants me to be a librarian. So, I went to library school and I said, "Mom here's...there you go. I'm a librarian now. Now I'm going to do my thing. Okay?" So, and I went to Canada. So, that happened in Brazil.

Pia Alliende:

And you study librarianship in Brazil.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yes.

Pia Alliende:

So, all these kind of race issues also, they started in Brazil.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yeah.

Pia Alliende:

I mean, so from early on you felt that oppression.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yeah. I think for people of color and I don't know if Max, it resonates the same way for you, but you get aware of that you are different very early on, because sometimes people point that out to you and sometimes you've excluded in some ambience or... So, for me, it happens very early on. It happens at that day and I remember even what I was wearing. Can you imagine that for a six years old to go through that?

Max Macias:

Very formative. Wow. Wow. Thanks so much for sharing that story. That's just amazing. And I didn’t…I've never heard that story. It was, it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. A piece of you with us. Oh, are we ready for the next question?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Sure.

Max Macias:

I don't know if this won't be as deep, but are you a morning or a night person?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Okay. So, definitely a night person. Trust me. I'm way, way more interesting and creative at night. I feel sometimes like I'm a, some sort of undercover vampire who must wake up in the morning for the sake of [inaudible] or something. I'm definitely a night person.

Pia Alliende:

The next one, this your mom might like this one, since she wanted you to be a librarian. So, we're going to ask you about, if somebody wrote a book about your life, would be that book, a drama, a comedy, a romance, an action book, a fantasy, science fiction, or you fill in the blank, if none of this apply to you.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Well, I think science fiction, not because I like science fiction per se, because I'm somewhat fascinated about the richness behind my ethnic background. And because I think it would be a book about a time machine where I could get to know and spend time with my most remote ancestors. Because I feel the magic of being a diverse individual, it's because you feel at home in so many places and so many cultures. And so many cultures speak to my heart. So, I am the kind of person that will cry watching a performance of flamenco gitano, but at the same time will feel really close to my indigenous roots. And at the same time we read everything about African Bantu tribes. I have all this diversity within me that I'm very curious about, so. And it's not been that, 23andME or those genetic kits you can buy can solve. But I think a book would be great because you could go to those locations and get some interaction with your ancestors. And so that would be very cool, I think. A time machine, a science fiction book.

Pia Alliende:

Yeah. And also, I guess it fit with your vision because science fiction is a little bit about understanding our past and our present, to see how we can solve the problems of the future. So, I think that fit right into what I know about you and especially what you have done in librarianship for EDI and then Antiracism.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Well, that's a great-

Pia Alliende:

Thank you.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Point. I never thought like this way, but that's a great point. It makes a lot of sense. Yes…

Max Macias:

It is great. And I like the science fiction. I've learned so much from science fiction. I like the idea of the ancestors too. Right. The ancestors are, they always, they hold the answers in so many respects, I think.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

…that's right.

Max Macias:

Thank you, Marci. Okay. Here's the next question. What brought you to the point in your professional, personal life that made you form the OLA EDI and Antiracism committee and become the thriving force of equity, diversity, inclusion, and Antiracism tool-kit for libraries.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

That's a great question. I think all my life, I had this calling to be involved in causes bigger than myself. I remember when I was a little kid, I decided to start this... OLA president in 2019, I believe, so she invited me along with a group of other librarians and Max, you were part of that too. So, you remember that.

Max Macias:

Yes.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

They actually started with an EDI task force and it was actually presented to me by Elaine Parish. And we decide to put together a set of EDI recommendations for the Oregon Library Association. And at that time we really want to challenge a little bit, the EDI focus by inserting the notion of antiracism within those guidelines and best practices. Because what, and Max, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But what we understood then is the same thing that we understand now, that the EDI focus without the antiracism portion, it's mere compliance, and it carries a lot of compliance aspect. And as a person of color, I'm not interested in EDI as compliance, as a compliance initiative.

Max Macias:

Oh, yeah.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I'm interested in EDI as part of humanity... I interested in EDI as a cultural change. I'm interested in EDI in a way that I can see how people who look like me and are treated and subject to oppression on a daily basis because they are not... I want to be properly treated, properly valued, properly placed, properly engaged in that workplace environment. That's the EDI focus that I want to see. So, we know that the existing systems that we have in librarianship today, they are very much so rooted and immersed in likeness. And for those of you that doesn't know what likeness means is, in short, is a particular system that is created to benefit white individuals. And that's why I decided to push OLA to promote the task force, to literally promote the task force to a committee level.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And I outlined that as a main recommendation, because EDI alone is compliance. And because EDI and Antiracism, it's not a one-time effort. Something that a task force will tackle and nobody ever needs to touch it. It's not a project. It must be treated as a cultural change and it needs to be funded as a continuous effort. And when your task force and when your committee, when your divisions can no longer take care of a heavy load, then guess what other avenues need to be presented by library leaders? Because we didn't even put a dent on EDI work yet. And the tool kit came after that, because the tool kit was also our recommendation item. So, we knew people had to start from somewhere. So, we itemized, and Max was part of that group too. We itemized the tool-kit as a recommendation and gave form and content to it. And then once it was done, I presented the draft to the EDIA committee, the equity, diversity, inclusion and antiracism committee and to the OLA board. And then we went from there.

Pia Alliende:

Thank you, Marci for...and we know that now hearing your story, I mean that you are a person that is a go getter. And the next question has a lot of parts that…

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Okay.

Pia Alliende:

…people wanted to know, especially as a person of color, EDI and Antiracism, and Anti-oppression work is a heavy work. In that sense, what have been some of the biggest surprises that is one, or challenges that you found while leading this effort…

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Okay.

Pia Alliende:

…around the states and how those surprises or challenges have affected your outlook on EDI, specifically in the library profession.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Wow. That's a great question. And yes, you are absolutely right. It is heavy work. And I believe my motivation to be part of something this big, part of this work lies on my own personal and my professional experiences. When you are person of color, you learn at a very young age that the systems surrounding you are not necessarily there to protect you. Most of the time, they are there to break, to question your ability to perform, to question if you belong or not into a social dynamic or to a group. So, when you were constantly mistreated and used, misled, bullied, underserved, underrepresented, unseen, unheard, you start to...paraphrasing Dr. Angela Davis, you get to a point where you no longer accepting the things you cannot change, but you start changing the dynamic of the things that you can no longer accept.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And to explain my outlook on EDI, I need to tell you the story. Like I said before, my mom always wanted me to be a librarian. So, I went to library school to make her happy. And right after that, I went to pursue my dreams and I moved to Canada to get better in English and start my career in business. I got project management…project management certification, and I work in corporate for 17 years. Well, after those 17 years, I became literally ill. I had a illness that affect me physically and emotionally. And so, after those 17 years of being tokenized, and at the same time, having to hear from my managers, directors, whatever corporate leadership, that by the way, it's mostly made of white middle-aged man. So, these people that insisted to throw on my face that my discontentment and my inability to see a future in that company, was my problem.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

So, I felt that people were throwing that on my face all the time. Like that's your problem. Sometimes I would hide in the bathroom and cry because, I was made fun. Somebody made fun of my accent. Somebody told me that I came across bossy, because when white people say something, it's like, oh, that you're assertive. But when a person of color, that is also an immigrant, that also has an accent say something, oh no, you come across bossy, angry. So, I remember corporate sometimes were a nightmare to me, because I would have a performance review and then managers or directors would throw on my face, oh, they have to fight so much to have someone like me in their team. What did that even mean? You know what I mean?

Max Macias:

Yeah. What?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Or something like, oh, you were so lucky to work for this company, as if my qualifications and my skills were not a decisive factor to hire me. So, that carry ons and add a lot of stress on you and contributes to imposter syndrome. And then when you try to be very professional, you hear things like, "Oh, you're too serious, too focused. When I hire you, I thought you would be more laid back like the other Brazilian people." And I was like, what is even... 

Max Macias:

What? [Laughter.]

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Those stupid things that you hear? And then when enough was enough for me, corporate, then I decided to consider my return to librarianship because I thought librarianship was this very equalitarian place where the profession was surrounded by, for example, like the connection between librarianship in academia.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I thought that would make things easier for me in that field because my understanding at the time was that libraries were already there on EDI and antiracism. So, I thought libraries already there, challenging systemic racism, acknowledging and recognizing their shortcomings and their participation in segregation and oppression. And my biggest surprise answering a question was like, libraries had the knowledge in paper, but the effort wasn't there yet. So, once again, paraphrasing Dr. Angela Davis, I had to work to change the things I could no longer accept. And then I decide to be involved with EDI and antiracism to this level, not only at libraries, but I made a commitment to myself. If someday I leave libraries and I go work somewhere else, this is something I'll carry with me wherever I go.

Max Macias:

Wow. So happy you came back to librarianship. Yeah.

Pia Alliende:

And when did you, because you said that you moved to Canada. So, when did you move to the State, when you decided to come back to librarianship?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

No. Well so I moved to Canada in the early 2000s and I moved to US in 2009. Yeah. I didn't jump right into libraries. So, in Canada, I worked for IBM during the time that I was there. And then when I moved to US, I worked to Nike and, I work first for a company called Thomson Reuters, they have an office here in Lake Oswego. And then I work for Nike. And then after Nike is when I decide to embrace librarianship again. And the nice folks from McMinnville Public Library hired me. So, thank you, Jenny and Courtney.

Pia Alliende:

And before Max jumping to the next question, I want to ask you, because you mentioned something about... They assume things about you like, oh, you're more laid back, like Brazilian people. Is any other assumption, like for example, and maybe a lot of people assume right off the bat that you speak Spanish, is that right or not?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. Which for me it's not a problem because I do speak Spanish. And I think my Spanish is pretty solid, when…

Pia Alliende:

No, Brazilians are really good. I mean, we are the ones that, they're the worst. Brazilians, they speak Spanish really well. And the rest of the Latin America doesn't speak Portuguese, which is a shame.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

But, I think it's our duty as Brazilians to learn Spanish because we are alone in that because we are colonized by Portugal. So, we're alone. So yes, we are a big country. We're like the size of a continent in Latin America, but we are alone. So, I think because we are surrounded by Spanish  [inaudible] I think should be... I think now it's mandatory in Brazil for kids to learn Spanish in school, the same level they learn Portuguese. So, which is a great thing, but I learned Spanish in college.

Pia Alliende:

But is there in any other assumption? [Laughter.]

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. It's mostly stereotypical things. Right? Like being a Brazilian woman, it's so weird because, those things that you hear, "Oh, when we hired you we thought you were fun. I thought you'd dance a Samba here for us or..."

Max Macias:

[inaudible]] Oh my God. [Laughter.]

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Some stuff like that. And then it's like, I cannot believe that people would make those inferences and kind of judge you for a festivity in your country and all those kind of assumptions that people carry about, and stereotypical views about Latin American and Latin America.

Pia Alliende:

I was always curious about what was the impression and exactly like you say, because Brazil is kind of like...you are Latina, your first language is not Spanish.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yeah.

Pia Alliende:

So, it's kind of those assumption also, that kind of putting everybody in the same…

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

The same boat.

Pia Alliende:

Sack.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yeah. Yeah.

Max Macias:

It's the boat’s fault.

Pia Alliende:

You're right. Just dividing us.

Max Macias:

Oh, all right. Here's another one. When you first started working on the tool-kit, in what ways did you envision or rather hope that it would be utilized in libraries in the state? In what ways have those hopes been either met or missed during the launching of the tool-kit?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Hmm. Okay. That is the question. That is, it is interesting because my vision, when I developed a tool-kit was, okay I will create something that everybody is asking for. Because to conversations, that's the vibe that I got, oh, we want something that will serve to us as a north in terms of EDI and antiracism. We need a set of guidelines. We need this, we need that. So I conduct surveys, we knew what people wanted. So, we developed a tool kit based on that. But what we want to do as a committee and Max remembered that because he was part of the first EDI antiracism committee, we want to find supporters and we want to find facilitators to amplify the message of the tool kit. We didn't want this job to lay on the back of the EDI and Antiracism committee.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

We want the involvement of library leaders. We want directors involved. We want managers, supervisors involved, and we decide the tool-kit to be presented to this audience of directors, managers, supervisors, expecting that message will be amplified from the leadership to the library staff. I feel like the tool-kit was well anticipated. People are happy to have the tool-kit in their hand. However, the level of adherence, it's not quite there. I don't think it is. The ideal thing for me would be, to hear from libraries that promoted the tool-kit for its staff and took advantage of the tool-kit educational aspect of it, could be more vocal and could share that with other libraries and other leaders. I really want to blame COVID 19 for the fact that many libraries didn't even initiate training and best practices. I really want to blame COVID. But I remember that, we as the EDI Antiracism committee, also offered alternative training solutions for what was happening in terms of COVID 19.

Max Macias:

That's right.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And we present that to library leaders. So, there is the way that, the formal way that is to gather your staff in a room and go page by page on the tool-kit and say, "Oh, page one, let's talk about this..." But there is other ways for you to do online. And it's a great professional development tool. And I seriously think that people should take more advantage of it, of the educational content of it. So, I really want to thank the actually library leaders, because I know a whole bunch of them that actually took this initiative serious enough and discussed the content or the tool-kit with their staff and promoted some type of educational gathering where they talk about the tool-kit, where they discuss the question, the discussion questions that are within the tool-kit, those discussion questions are there for a reason.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

You can present the content of that page and you can go to the discussion questions and say, "Hey, what do you guys think about that?" So everything, it's really well presented and it has content, but also has solution. So, I would like to take this space now actually to invite library leaders and library staff who utilize the tool-kit and obtains success with that, people that actually saw the value of the tool-kit to come forward and talk about it. And I think here the podcast will be a great place to do that.

Max Macias:

Totally agree. Awesome. Thank you so much, Marci. Wow.

Pia Alliende:

Yeah.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

You're welcome.

Max Macias:

That's great. Can I ask you one more question?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Of course.

Max Macias:

Unscripted. I'm Max, you know me. All right, where do you see the state of EDI and antiracism in Oregon libraries right now?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I think we made some good progress. I used to be very, how do I say this? I used to be very cautious about displaying some gratitude here for the EDI Antiracism committee, because like I said, I was the first leader to that particular committee. But I think as a committee now, are doing a fantastic job. The committee prior, people that were in the prior committee did a fantastic job. The tool-kit gave us a lot of visibility.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

And when I say us, gave the Oregon Library Association visibility and gave this work visibility. So I have to thank you. People that were involved with the task force, you Max, it was like, I keep telling you this all the time. You're like this force of nature. I really appreciate you. You were the person who actually, really inspired me to do this job and I will tell you something. I decided to be part of the task force back in 2018, I think, when we first start talking about that, because I heard that he would be involved and I said, "I want to learn from this guy. So, I want to be there."

Max Macias:

Well, I'll tell you Marci right now, like it's an honor working with you. You are an amazing person and librarian and just a social justice advocate you know. And we love you. Thank you for your work and thank you for your time today, so much.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Oh, I appreciate it guys. I appreciate you guys.

Pia Alliende:

And to finish in a personal note, what would be one thing that you cannot tell just by looking at you? What is that thing that people cannot tell about you by looking at you?

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I guess not so much by looking, but again, there is this assumption that because I'm so involved and outspoken, and I'm a person that has this level where activism and that I am very outgoing and this and that. But I'm not, I'm very shy. So I guess people that see me speaking and giving those presentations and they assume that I am really this outspoken person and this really... I don't know. I have people that don't know me and I didn't know them. They know me from talks and this and that. They come to me and they, I think they're disappointed because they're like, "Wow, she's so quiet [laughter] and shy," because I am really shy. So, I guess that's something you can't imagine, but I am extremely shy.

Pia Alliende:

But it's a force that is driving you to be outspoken.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

I guess so. Yeah. It's something bigger than myself. So it is what is right. Standing for what is just and standing for what is right. It gives you the voice that you need to have in that particular scenario. I think yeah. That's what encourages me. And that's what makes me feel powerful to deliver things when I am this super shy person.

Pia Alliende:

Well, thank you. Thank you so much. I really enjoy listening to your stories. I wish, I mean, we can stay here forever [laughter], I guess. I wish we could keep going and going. I think people are going to enjoy listen to your voice. And I really like it when... talking about EDI and antiracism, is the idea of amplifying voices.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Yes.

Pia Alliende:

And your voice is one that needs to be amplified like tons and tons of time.

Marci Ramiro-Jenkins:

Thank you, guys.

Max Macias:

Now we'd like to ask you to reflect and act on the information you've gained from this. What are your takeaways or a takeaway from this interview, Pia?

Pia Alliende:

For me, it was really important to learn about Marci on the personal level, because I think that a lot of time, we as people we're biased, conscious or not conscious or unconscious, we tend to assume things about people without knowing them. So, getting to know the person in a more personal level for me is one of the takeaways, I'm going to try to apply in the library and in life. I mean, when I encounter different people, they don't look like me or they don't speak like me. I need to learn who they are first. And how about you? What are your takeaways, Max?

Max Macias:

Ah, one takeaway is similar to what you're saying is, getting to know somebody at a deeper level and understanding their motivations. And after this interview I'm like, wow. I don't understand Marci completely, no, but I understand why her work is so powerful and just a little bit about where her passions come from. That's one of my takeaways, Pia.

Pia Alliende:

Wow. Yeah, absolutely. Also, after reflecting, we want you to maybe take an action. So, what is an action that you can take. Here is one that we're offering. Read pages one to 12 of the tool-kit and take the EDI Antiracism survey and see where you and your libraries stand in the EDI Antiracist journey. Keep an eye out for the next episode of Overdue, Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries. Our next episode will focus on the practical application of the EDIA toolkit on policies and practices in libraries.

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Overdue, Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries would not be possible without the generous support from the Oregon Library Association and the State Library of Oregon, whose mission is to provide leadership and resources to continue growing vibrant library services for Oregonians.

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We would like to take time to acknowledge historical injustices. We recognize Oregon was established as a white sanctuary state with the intent to exclude African American and Black people on ancestral lands stolen from dispossessed indigenous peoples. We recognize and honor, the members of the federally recognized tribes and unrecognized tribes of Oregon, past, present, and future, whose lands we still occupy. Our intention with these acknowledgements is to disrupt practices of misinformation and patterns of genocide by drawing our collective attention to the original people of the land we inhabit, the slave trade and forced labor that built this country, into the oppressive social systems, interwoven into the fabric of our national and regional heritage. We ask that you take a moment to do the same.

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