*There were technical issues during the recording of this episode. We apologize for any minor disruptions*
In this episode, we talk with leadership from REFORMA Oregon about centering equity work as the foundation of library work, how to begin shifting Oregon library culture to better serve diverse communities as well as how a culture shift can support library workers of color. We also talk about how REFORMA Oregon supports EDI Antiracism work in the state and how this organization serves as a structure of support for library workers who identify as Latinx, speak Spanish or serve Latinx and Spanish-speaking communities.
Brandace Rojo is the Current President of REFORMA Oregon and the Communications and Partnerships Manager at Josephine Community Library District.
Eduardo Arizaga is the Past President of REFORMA Oregon and the Community Engagement Manager at Multnomah County Library. REFORMA Oregon is a division of the Oregon Library Association as well as the Oregon chapter of REFORMA: The National Association to Promote Library & Information Services to Latinos and the Spanish Speaking, an affiliate of the American Library Association. REFORMA Oregon is a professional organization for librarians and library staff who serve the Spanish-speaking and Latino communities.
Date of interview: November 18, 2022
Hosts: LaRee Dominguez and Kristen Curé
Resources talked about in this episode:
*There were technical issues during the recording of this episode. We apologize for any minor disruptions*
In this episode, we talk with leadership from REFORMA Oregon about centering equity work as the foundation of library work, how to begin shifting Oregon library culture to better serve diverse communities as well as how a culture shift can support library workers of color. We also talk about how REFORMA Oregon supports EDI Antiracism work in the state and how this organization serves as a structure of support for library workers who identify as Latinx, speak Spanish or serve Latinx and Spanish-speaking communities.
Brandace Rojo is the Current President of REFORMA Oregon and the Communications and Partnerships Manager at Josephine Community Library District.
Eduardo Arizaga is the Past President of REFORMA Oregon and the Community Engagement Manager at Multnomah County Library. REFORMA Oregon is a division of the Oregon Library Association as well as the Oregon chapter of REFORMA: The National Association to Promote Library & Information Services to Latinos and the Spanish Speaking, an affiliate of the American Library Association. REFORMA Oregon is a professional organization for librarians and library staff who serve the Spanish-speaking and Latino communities.
Date of interview: November 18, 2022
Hosts: LaRee Dominguez and Kristen Curé
Resources talked about in this episode:
[Intro Music Playing]
LaRee Dominguez (00:00:05):
Welcome to OVERDUE: Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries, a podcast produced by the Oregon Library Association's Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Antiracism Committee. My name is LaRee Dominguez, I am the Resources Coordinator at the Albany Public Library, and I am joined by my co-host Kristen Curé.
Kristen Curé (00:00:25):
Thank you, LaRee. I am Kristen Curé and I'm the Latino Liaison Librarian and Spanish Language Services Librarian at Springfield Public Library in Springfield, Oregon. I'm also the secretary of REFORMA Oregon and it's just a great joy for me to be here today with you all for a conversation about REFORMA Oregon, with Brandace Rojo and Eduardo Arizaga.
(00:00:54):
To give a little introduction, Eduardo Arizaga is the past president of REFORMA Oregon and currently the Community Engagement Manager at Multnomah County Library in Portland, Oregon. And Brandace Rojo is the current president of REFORMA Oregon and the Communications and Partnerships Manager at the Josephine Community Library District. Thank you both so much for being here with us today to talk about REFORMA Oregon. Before we jump into what REFORMA is and what you all do here in Oregon Libraries, I have what I hope is a fun question. What are you reading right now?
Brandace Rojo (00:01:33):
I'll go ahead and get us started. I just started reading a book called by Michelle Wilde Anderson. We recently had a program with Michelle at the library. In her book, Josephine County is featured, so we did this reflective conversation with her and some community leaders referencing her findings. It's about four high-poverty communities throughout the US that are progressing on some of the hardest challenges of American poverty today. Really, it's about places with gutted public services where you see ordinary people are coming together and becoming the unsung heroes who are transforming their neighborhoods. And it's pretty cool because our library director from Josephine Community Library District is quoted in the book.
Kristen Curé (00:02:24):
Ooh, thank you. I wrote down the title so it's going to be on my read list.
Brandace Rojo (00:02:29):
It's very interesting.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:02:31):
Yeah. And I guess, for myself, I will share that I usually have a couple books going at the same time. I just finished the graphic novel Paper Girls the complete set, and just started Batman: Court of the Owl, and currently reading The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber.
Kristen Curé (00:02:49):
That's quite a lot to check out. Thanks. Thanks, Eduardo.
LaRee Dominguez (00:02:54):
Will you both please tell us about your background and your leadership journeys to this point?
Brandace Rojo (00:03:00):
Sure. I grew up in a place called Chula Vista, California. It's a suburb of San Diego that's just about a 10-minute drive from the Tijuana, Mexico border. I moved to Grants Pass in 2014, just a few years after my mom moved up, to be closer to her and escape the city life a little bit. It's a slower pace here, for sure, and I don't have to sit in traffic, which is awesome. And I stumbled into the library world, starting as a temp employee, while Josephine Community Library was working on a campaign to form a taxing district. At that point, the libraries here were run as a nonprofit, I believe it was for about a decade that they were run that way, failed several district campaigns before finally passing in 2017. And I feel like all of that is important to my story because it was the catalyst to my journey working in libraries, getting involved with REFORMA, and doing all of this other work in the community.
(00:04:11):
I've been with my library system for eight years and, like Kristen said, I'm currently the communications and partnership manager, and in a town that really fosters racism on so many levels, the library has been a place where I've been supported and encouraged in my efforts to better serve our Latin American community members. In 2019, I attended FIL in Guadalajara for the first time to purchase Spanish language books for our libraries' collection and, shortly after, I started facilitating a networking group here in Josephine County that meets monthly. It brings together agencies and organizations that serve our Spanish-speaking population and allows us to share resources with one another, and right around the same time as when I got involved with REFORMA.
LaRee Dominguez (00:05:09):
Wow, that's a great start, and thank you for that. Eduardo?
Eduardo Arizaga (00:05:16):
Yeah. I'm originally from Southern California, from San Diego, and also lived for a time in Chula Vista, so that's a way that Brandace and I are connected, a little trivia. But, yeah, I guess, from conversations to other people with a similar background of mine, which is Mexican American with immigrant parents, public libraries were sometimes met with dubious assumptions. Fines and fees sometimes play a role in that and sometimes it's just discomfort with a space that doesn't feel welcoming, and sometimes it's easier to work towards purchasing an item than to go through the process of the book-lending library. But, to me, libraries were always exciting even though they sometimes didn't feel the most welcoming or really provided a sense of belonging.
(00:05:59):
But libraries have always been super exciting just because you can kind of control what you interact with, what you read and what you grab and what you get to take home. There's a whole process to it and always found ways that I really enjoyed to interact with the space in the ways that it allowed. And, like a lot of library workers, that enjoyment as a visitor led me to looking into working at a library. You get so much joy out of it that you start thinking about what it could look like on the other side of it, and especially when thinking about the ways that you can provide the service different and what you think that you can bring to it, especially having that sense of not being welcome or not having a sense of belonging, what that could feel like to provide that for other people as they enter the library.
(00:06:39):
I actually began working in libraries 21 years ago, started in access services as a page, and, from there, always wanted to expand my work into other spaces and places where I felt I could advocate and support community needs or community resources that weren't being focused on, but that I was hearing from the community what they wanted. I started at Multnomah County Library about six years ago, a little over six years ago, and I would say that my leadership journey really started there under mentorship and support from my managers, who supported me taking on leadership roles within projects, and then, from there, really fostered a sense of growth in me to look into expanding that beyond just what I could do within that role, but also moving into management role. I served as a administrator at library locations and now working as the community engagement manager in a system-wide role. And I would say that my work with REFORMA has really provided additional leadership opportunities to learn from other individuals across the state and the country that really allowed me to continue to grow in my leadership journey.
Kristen Curé (00:07:48):
Thank you both for sharing those stories. Even though I've worked with you both in REFORMA Oregon for a few years, I learned something new. I didn't realize you both came from Southern California.
Brandace Rojo (00:08:03):
Neither did I, and the same little part of San Diego. That's awesome.
Kristen Curé (00:08:07):
I'm another transplant from further south, but southern Arizona, so just your neighbor. You told us your story about coming into libraries and how you've come up through libraries and library work. Could you tell us a little bit about what brought you to REFORMA and then what keeps you coming back to REFORMA?
Brandace Rojo (00:08:31):
Yeah, like I briefly mentioned, my first introduction to REFORMA was in 2019, before going to FIL. And for anybody who doesn't know what that is, it's one of the largest book fairs in the world that really focuses on Spanish language books and materials, and there's a lot of stuff that was actually published in Spanish, huge festival, awesome networking. I went to that. I heard about it through my library director and she was an advocate for sending a couple of us on our staff.
(00:09:13):
I got to meet a lot of folks from REFORMA, while I was in Guadalajara and, everyone was so welcoming and helpful, even though I wasn't a member at the time. Shortly after that trip, my library director became OLA president and encouraged me to join REFORMA, and I love how much of a support system the members of REFORMA are. I really feel like I've found my people in this group. I've gotten so many outreach ideas over the past couple of years, and I'm also just very inspired by the work that everyone is doing in their libraries and in the Oregon library community as a whole. And I'm just really excited to dig in a bit more in my role as president this year.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:10:01):
Yeah. I'd say, for myself, somewhat similar. I came to REFORMA first through searching for resources, and you learn of looking for other people who are doing similar work or advocacy work, especially for the Latino and Spanish-speaking population within libraries. That's what first brought REFORMA to my attention, working in libraries. And then, from there working much more in depth in my role, specifically working as a bilingual Spanish librarian, I started connecting more with other Reformistas across the country, and then also here in the state with the local meetings.
(00:10:41):
And one of the things that brought me to REFORMA early on and keeps me coming back is that sense that you're not doing the work alone and that there are other people who have been doing very similar work who understand some of the challenges that the Spanish-speaking and Latino community face in accessing resources, and just being able to be around people that are navigating that and that can provide guidance has been very uplifting and not only keeps me coming back to REFORMA, but keeps me around libraries because it's continuing to connect with people who find the passion within the work amongst all the challenges, and just feel very fortunate to continue working now with a group of people whose focus is this type of work, both in my library, but then coming to REFORMA and knowing that the resources aren't the same across all library systems.
(00:11:45):
One of the things that keeps me coming back to REFORMA and REFORMA Oregon is knowing that other individuals don't have a lot of the same access to resources that might be available in a larger metropolitan library, so really trying to do my part in trying to help others who may not have those support systems and resources and really being there as a sense of advocacy and support for this community that is so widespread across our communities and overlap so often. These imaginary barriers and borders do not contain communities. We know our communities are mobile, and knowing that a community member can go to another part of the state and receive and interact with library services that are catered or set up for them to succeed is what helps me keep coming back.
LaRee Dominguez (00:12:35):
Well, thank you both. That's inspiring to hear those stories that REFORMA brought you in and that you've found a community that you felt comfortable in and safe. Who is eligible to join REFORMA and why is increasing membership important?
Eduardo Arizaga (00:12:57):
I can speak to that. Any and all individuals that wish to support library services to the Latino and Spanish-speaking community are all eligible to join REFORMA. While there's a sense of connection that people might feel, culturally and linguistically, to being a participant, that is not the sole entryway to want to do this work. In fact, anyone who seeks and sees advocacy for underrepresented communities at risk of being marginalized being important to receiving library services, they are more than welcome to continue to participate, both as active dues-paying members or even as just community members who wish to participate even in our quarterly meetings that take place. Membership increase, to me, is important because it allows new voices to be heard and new ideas to be brought forward.
(00:13:53):
There are often barriers that library workers, or even non-library workers, might face as they try to break into this profession or in this or even support their community in this way, and I feel that REFORMA, and specifically REFORMA Oregon, allows people to become much more involved with projects and provides hands-on experience that, due to whatever barriers might be in place in their other profession or in their roles at libraries, those are all wiped away, at least with REFORMA. The support of the community is where we focus our work in, and it can definitely expand options and opportunities for individuals who wish to work closely with the community and really give some additional space and time for folks to continue working on their advocacy and collaboration skills with other Reformistas across the state and the country.
Kristen Curé (00:14:48):
Thank you, Eduardo. My experience, I'm going to just pop in here even though I'm the one asking the questions, my experience as a librarian in REFORMA very much mirrors everything you've talked about. I first became involved before I worked full-time in a library and it was a great way to get support in seeing where I wanted to be in libraries and the type of work I wanted to do. And I'll just echo that it's really a great support for anyone who is looking to serve Latinx and Spanish-speaking populations, which really would be all public libraries in Oregon, right? You don't have to be the Spanish languages collector. Just if you're doing outreach in your community, it's great to come to a REFORMA meeting and meet other folks who are doing the work and learn alongside.
Brandace Rojo (00:15:41):
Yeah. If your library serves the Latina or the Spanish-speaking communities, you really belong at REFORMA. Advocates and supporters, even those who are not of Latin American descent or don't speak Spanish, are welcome and encouraged to join as this division is focused...we're focused on library services. Really, if you work at a library in Oregon, you belong.
LaRee Dominguez (00:16:10):
No, that's awesome. Thank you for adding that. What challenges do you see facing libraries right now?
Eduardo Arizaga (00:16:20):
I think one of the challenges, and it's something that was very much, I think, highlighted through the start of COVID and navigating COVID, is it really highlights the barriers and gaps that communities have of continuing to be marginalized even though resource and access, we may perceive, are available to everybody equally. And it does, to me, continue to highlight that a challenge that libraries have is in how do we continue to connect with those individuals who have those barriers? Boy, I feel like this question can keep going. I think it's also challenges, I think especially when we're talking about the work to this community, the Latina, Latinx, and the Spanish-speaking community is that we're looking for doing so much or we're trying to meet needs, in part, trying to meet those needs. We are constantly juggling our capacity versus the capital that we have available to us and the resources that we have to provide to the community, and that's one that's not going to diminish.
(00:17:35):
It's one that I think, as we continue to build services and enact new services and programs, that's going to be a constant pull, and I think one challenge is trying to figure out how we center equity, and continue to center equity, in our work moving forward. And the challenge that comes with that, I feel, is how do we center equity while battling the constant drive for equality since we want everyone to have equal access to material and what does that look like to really center equity, which means that we're not providing things in an equal manner, that we're actually going above and beyond to provide for these individuals and these communities that have the biggest barriers. Brandace, do you want to speak to it?
Brandace Rojo (00:18:27):
Yeah, absolutely, and I agree. I feel like, this question, we could do an entire podcast just on this. I think, at least here in southern Oregon, we are seeing a lot of people wanting to censor materials, library programs, stuff like that in libraries right now. A lot of it is centering around LGTBQ+ plus themes, around anything that has to do with equity. It's really important for library workers to find ways to remind our community members that, as librarians and as public libraries, as school libraries, we have an obligation to uphold the first amendment, and we really need to leave the decision up to the patron whether they want to check out certain materials or attend certain programs.
(00:19:19):
I'll give you guys an example of something that we're dealing with here in Josephine County right now. We have a patron who, for probably the past three or four months now, has really been upset about this networking group that we host for agencies who serve Spanish-speaking populations. She's also upset that our website is translated in Spanish and that we do any outreach at all specifically to Spanish-speaking communities. She comes to our board meetings. I want to say she's even reached out to the state library and to some of our other local neighboring library systems, as well, with these same issues, and this is a common challenge down here in southern Oregon.
Kristen Curé (00:20:09):
That's such a, gosh, I'm trying to think of the right word, such a fundamental challenge, because providing materials and information in the language that your community uses is just a basic service of libraries.
Brandace Rojo (00:20:26):
Absolutely. It's what libraries do.
Kristen Curé (00:20:31):
Gosh, you're right. We need a whole podcast just on that topic, because the other side to that question is what are you optimistic about concerning libraries, especially libraries here in Oregon, right? Because we have the challenges, but then we also have the positives that come from our service. I don't know if you have anything optimistic to share.
Brandace Rojo (00:20:59):
Yeah. Oh, yeah, of course, of course. And, like I said, I can only really speak to my experience here in Josephine County, and I hope that this is echoed in other libraries in Oregon, but I feel really good about the support that I receive in my organization, from the top down, to put the work in to reach those community members who might not totally trust the library yet, and that's specifically the Spanish-speaking community here, our BIPOC community members, our LGBTQ+ community members. We actually have a goal in our current strategic plan, which is a district-wide plan, to increase access to resources and to do outreach to support specifically the Spanish-speaking population in Josephine County, and we brought in members of that community for focus groups to tell us exactly how to do that in the most meaningful way. And, in a community where I don't go a day without seeing a Confederate flag flying from someone's car or in front of their house, it makes me feel like my community libraries, at the very least, are really leaning into being safe and welcoming spaces.
LaRee Dominguez (00:22:17):
Yeah. That's a tough thing to see on a daily basis and to encounter in the place where you live, that often, is really difficult.
Brandace Rojo (00:22:32):
It is. Actually, I'm sitting on my porch right now and I can see a house on the corner, just the opposite corner, with a Confederate flag by their door. It's really all over the place here in Josephine County. There's a lot of work to be done, and there is a great group of folks who is doing the important work to make changes and to make safe spaces and to do that outreach, which is great. I'm happy to be part of that.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:23:02):
For myself, I would say that I'm cautiously optimistic about the language that is being used, both across the profession and especially within the state. It's unfortunate that it took a global pandemic to really bring so much to light and to bring these conversations, not just to something that we're talking about possibly navigating in, but something that we see in real life of the disparities that really exist in our communities and right outside our doors.
(00:23:33):
And I guess I'm optimistic about the positive change that I keep hearing from different individuals, and maybe this is my interaction with both my colleagues, my close-knit community, and Reformistas, but it does feel like there's a lot of people out there doing the work and that they're out there in advocacy, they're out there in the creation of services. They're making sure that those who are not always being served are being served, and I think it really makes me feel good about where we're headed. And I think part of that is really due to the people involved with the work.
(00:24:19):
We just spoke to the challenges and I think we barely even scratched the surface. And I think of this partly from what Brandace was just sharing, like the challenge, but something optimistic that I'm feeling about is we can't change everyone's mind, whether they're community members or, sadly, even staff members about the trajectory of where we want libraries to go to and where they're headed, but there's a lot of people out there doing the work, moving it in that direction about that positive shift of what library resources look like, talking about material that reflect communities and community members, serving them in their languages, allowing them to be seen. I feel like there's a lot of really small things that are happening and I think sometimes the small things are really hard to really applaud because we want to see the big things, but, to me, that equitable...that process of change, is really pushing us in that direction where it makes me excited to see where we're going.
Kristen Curé (00:25:28):
Thank you. Our next question really builds on what we've been talking about. Going back to some of the challenges, how does white cultural dominance impact people of color in Oregon libraries and what kind of culture shift is needed, and how do we convince white power holders that the time to act is now?
Brandace Rojo (00:25:53):
Yeah, so I can get started. It can be really lonely and exhausting at times doing this work. And, a lot of times, I feel like librarians of color bear the brunt of the work when it comes to outreach, program planning, program implementation, any type of outreach to community members of color, because they are the ones who understand and, a lot of times, those people become the advocates for that entire population of BIPOC people in their communities. And, actually, I would love to hear what Eduardo has to say to speak to that second question of what kind of cultural shift is needed and how do we convince white power holders that the time to act is now. You guys have heard a little bit of the background from the area that I live in, so I'm curious to know what you think about that, if you have any advice For me, coming from an area like the one that I live in.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:26:56):
I think the way I've heard it best phrased, of the challenges here in Oregon, is that we are in a conflict-avoidance society. Conflict is framed as either/or, right or wrong. There's a right way to do things, there's a wrong way to do things, and fear is a heavy driver, I feel, and that pause in action, because there's this idea of perfection, which is a white supremacy construct to..and that really moves us to this place of inaction. We have to wait til we see something being done successfully in order to say, "Okay, yes, we can go ahead and we can do that." And that's probably even much more felt, as I mentioned, here in the Pacific Northwest and in Oregon just because of that conflict avoidance and not understanding that conflict is a tent of relationships and it will be there and it'll continue to be there and it just means that we don't go until we feel safe and comfortable.
(00:27:53):
And I think some of that culture shift is realizing if we're saying that this is the work and these are the individuals in the communities that we have seen us not serve well, that part of that culture shift has to be we just got to try things and we got to do things and we got to give them space to be successful. But even before we launch them is checking in with the communities, are we doing what they're asking us to do or are we imagining ourselves what we think is best for them, which is, I think, deeply mired within the profession and in the way that we drive some of our work because we want to have a successful outcome or successful metrics.
Kristen Curé (00:28:34):
What you're saying about wanting to have a successful outcome and successful metrics and that being related to, in the profession, having this tradition of doing what we think the community wants, did we take the time to ask? It's like the work is so much slower, right, if you want to not just have, oh, a successful report that you can make, but to actually provide what the community wants because there's that relationship-building, right, going out and getting to know people and building that trust so that they will tell you what they want.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:29:16):
Yeah. It's so much additional work, and it is a slow process, but there's nothing wrong with that slow process if it's something that you're doing with the idea of a long-term goal.
LaRee Dominguez (00:29:30):
What kinds of culture shifts do you think are needed in Oregon libraries to better support library workers of color? And this question and conversation are coming in on the heels of the statement that this group and others have made. Can you help us with that a little bit?
Brandace Rojo (00:29:53):
I think that library leadership across the state needs to support their BIPOC library workers who want to do this work, who want to be involved with OLA divisions and committees like REFORMA and EDI. Library workers of color and, frankly, all library workers should be able to participate in doing work like this and doing networking like this. This type of networking will only positively impact all of our libraries in Oregon.
LaRee Dominguez (00:30:33):
Yeah, I agree. One of the things that I'm wondering about what you said, that I think is really important, is that supporting the BIPOC staff to join these groups and have some support, rather than just be looked at as, because you're BIPOC, you should be doing this kind of outreach or you should be doing this kind of training, and that's a fine line for a lot of leadership. Do you have any thoughts on that, Brandace or Eddie?
Brandace Rojo (00:31:14):
Just to clarify, do you mean that, in some situations, leadership is actually telling their BIPOC library workers that they should do this kind of work instead of the other way around?
LaRee Dominguez (00:31:28):
Yes.
Brandace Rojo (00:31:29):
Okay. Okay, interesting.
LaRee Dominguez (00:31:33):
And I know there's a lot of libraries that the leadership is asking the BIPOC staff to implement EDI or...
Brandace Rojo (00:31:44):
Yeah, that's really common.
LaRee Dominguez (00:31:46):
It is.
Brandace Rojo (00:31:48):
It's really common in the library world. I sit on a couple of other boards in my community and I think I'm seeing that across the board in nonprofits, in, like you said, in libraries. It really is so common to go to BIPOC members of a board or BIPOC staff and ask them to start the work. And, just going back to that, it's exhausting. Unless it's something that you really want to do and you want that support, you should be supported as a BIPOC library worker if you want to do this work, but it doesn't necessarily have to start with you. We do so much as it is. I don't know if you have anything to add to that, Eddie.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:32:40):
Yeah. When I think about culture shifts that are needed in Oregon libraries to support library workers of color, there's both the individual of what has to happen within an institution and then there's the larger, and I think they work symbiotically, and this is where I think there's the support or resources that are available through something like REFORMA Oregon or through other groups and actions that the state library supports, but also think at the local level. That's where I think it's a little bit more challenging because I think it's that piece where, for some individuals, they're the only ones doing some of this work on their own in some library organization. The biggest thing I can think of is support from their organization or from their direct leadership in the work that they're doing or the work that they're leading or in the advocacy that they're supporting for resources to underserved communities within their library area.
(00:33:49):
I wish there was this big blanket thing that we can do, but the most I can think of is connecting people with people, because I think that's where we move away from the idea that we're working siloed, or we're working alone, and there aren't others who are there to support us. And I think sometimes that can be hard when doing very specific work or if you're from a different cultural or language background than your colleagues, but I think this is that work on the other side.
(00:34:16):
If the institution is really striving to try to do better in their services to the community by filling or creating positions or having people do some of this work directly, and even indirectly, there's the case in point that not everyone who joins library work wants or should be required to really do this work on their own, and that, really, much more institutional support is needed and, in some cases, different individuals, not just the person that you're tagging as the person to lead that on their own. I think this is where stronger support at the organizational level and connecting people to other individuals in other parts of the state or around your area can really be influential in being able to support library workers in general and also library workers of color specifically.
Kristen Curé (00:35:10):
Thank you. Eddie. It seems like it's coming down to relationship-building again, whether it's supporting our colleagues in their positions and also in better serving our community, connecting people with people.
Brandace Rojo (00:35:27):
What do you guys think about that?
LaRee Dominguez (00:35:31):
I just haven't seen, personally, much in the way of leadership saying, "Please join these groups or attend these meetings because I'm understanding that you need support as a BIPOC worker." It seems like it's completely flipped, "How can I get you to these meetings and then you can do something for me," rather than trying to support, actually support, our fellow BIPOC staff members. You're right, it's exhausting, it's lonely, and, obviously, some days and situations are better than others, but it's a rough road.
Brandace Rojo (00:36:26):
It is, yeah, and one of the best things about REFORMA, I'm sure the EDI Committee is the same, is that support system. Yes, we get tons of great ideas for outreach and learning about programs and stuff that you guys are all doing at other libraries, but, really, it's that support system that makes working in a library in Oregon, as a BIPOC person, so great. I think it's amazing that REFORMA and the EDI Committee even exist.
LaRee Dominguez (00:37:05):
Yeah, absolutely. The EDIA Committee is one of the best, safest, most comfortable groups I've been involved with, and I've been doing this work for years in a couple of states, and it is definitely a group that it didn't take long before we were all trusting and all felt safe to share our stories, which is awesome, it really is.
Brandace Rojo (00:37:36):
Yeah, that's great.
LaRee Dominguez (00:37:37):
It's an amazing group of people.
Kristen Curé (00:37:39):
Being on both groups, I can echo that. One thing that I think about the EDIA Committee, and also REFORMA, that makes them different as well, though, as support groups, is that they are open to everyone, right? I'm a white librarian living and working in Oregon and I'm active in both, and it's a very special and important environment that we have, right, where we can learn alongside and I can be a better colleague and support to my other librarians, my BIPOC colleagues across the state. One thing that, as an outsider, that I think would be wonderful to see more of, just because I've seen it in my local community, is support groups that are also based on someone's experience of race.
(00:38:48):
There's a group that, actually, they meet virtually now, they used to meet just in person before the pandemic, but there's a group that's for specifically Latinx/Latine professionals who work, so it would be open to librarians, but also those who work in nonprofits, and they meet once a month and it is a closed, safe space where everybody is from the same, well, Latinx background, right, and so that allows even a different level of support than a place like REFORMA, where that's a place for everybody to learn together. And I don't know what your experiences have been, but if there's many spaces that are even more specific in supporting someone with their experience of how they go through life and how they go through their professional life here in Oregon.
Brandace Rojo (00:39:50):
Yeah, that's so interesting. I don't think I've ever been part of a group like that before. I can say that I'm pretty confident that nothing that exists in Josephine County. I would probably have to start it for it to exist.
Kristen Curé (00:40:09):
The next question for us ties back to where you both are in your leadership journeys and looking at how you're able to leverage the power and influence of your position to promote EDI and racial equity within your library?
Brandace Rojo (00:40:31):
So speaking of connecting people with people, I feel like that's really a huge theme of our podcast today, at my library system, we were able to start a successful partnership with two local organizations. One is called Project Youth Plus, who prepares low-income, first-generation, and underrepresented youth to thrive in school, colleges, and careers, and another organization called SO Healthe-E who works to seek systems change by creating community partnerships. And so the library and these two organizations came together and, together, we host a monthly Spanish language parent support group at the library. It's after hours, so the library's closed already. We have the space to ourselves, we provide them with food, they get to drive programming, and it's just been such a successful way to build trust between the library and our Spanish-speaking community members.
(00:41:40):
We've been doing this now since the summer, and it's a monthly meeting, so after every meeting, that following week, we see at least three or four of those families back in the library getting library cards, super successful. It's been great. And then I also touched on that networking group that I facilitate and the library supports that meets monthly to really offer an inclusive space for community agencies and organizations to create and improve and bridge services and opportunities to support the Latina and Spanish-speaking community here in southern Oregon that needs so much support.
Kristen Curé (00:42:28):
Just a quick follow-up before Eddie gives his answer, what advice do you have, Brandace, for library staff seeking to advance EDI and racial equity work within their own library, given your experiences in Josephine County?
Brandace Rojo (00:42:45):
Yeah. I have to give you guys a pat on the back right now, and I think one of the main things is to first look at and then share that OLA EDIA toolkit that y'all put together with colleagues, talk to leadership about getting involved with the EDIA committee or REFORMA. You can reach out to somebody on one of these committees if you know someone who is doing this work already in their community. And let us be the advocate for you. Let us help you come up with a game plan to advocate for yourself, for your community members, and to really let leadership and the folks at your library know why you think this work is so important and why it is so important to having a healthy library system.
Kristen Curé (00:43:39):
Thank you.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:43:41):
Yeah. I'd say, for myself, with the roles that I've held recently and this new role, something that I'm trying to implement and increase is just more employee engagement and participation in the process, especially when it comes to the rendering and delivery of services to diverse communities. My work is with working in serving a lot of underserved language and cultural communities. But, when thinking about the individual teams and people, it's really trying to impart on them and try to provide the tools as much as possible for them to create the work with the community in place, or with the community participating that is here or in the place where they might be at doing outreach.
(00:44:31):
Or, as we increase our community engagement efforts, that's a goal that we have is to really be building with community and really always trying to figure out and ask ourselves who's involved in the process of what we're doing and who's being left out, and really trying to think of how do we continue to broaden that, while not, as I mentioned earlier, not moving us towards inaction and really trying to move ourselves into a place where we're trying things and really centering equity in our work, and specifically racial equity, when it comes to the delivery of our services.
Kristen Curé (00:45:08):
Thanks, Eddie. And what advice do you have for someone looking to start this work in their own library?
Eduardo Arizaga (00:45:16):
The best way that I once heard it framed, from a mentor of mine, was you really got to find your allies in your organization. Those are the people that are going to support, that are going to be there, who know what's happening there within the place and space that you're in, and if that's not there, building that externally, but really trying to figure out who there, within your organization, who are the change-makers or who are the people who want to make change? And I rephrase that only because I think sometimes we think of change-makers as being people who are in positions of power, traditional power, but, really, I think the change-makers are the people who are really advocating and want to see a change take place, and that can look different in different organizations, but it really is important to find those allies because the work's not going to be done alone.
(00:46:09):
If you try to do it alone, it's going to be in a silo, it'll be built upon all your individual biases that you have and, really, if you're trying to break out of that, it really is working with a group, and especially working across work groups, understanding that it's not just in the rendering and delivery of a service, let's say, in libraries that direct service to a community member, but it happens even before the community member enters the building, so what are we doing, what are you doing as a team or as an organization? I think those are really important focal questions, and making sure that you're building the plan across not just staff, but also management, and this cross-involvement, because attrition is real, changes are real, life happens, and it's really important that, whatever you begin or you wish to begin or embed within your library organization, can continue on, not just based on strong individuals and strong wills, but more a functional piece of what drives your organization and your service offerings.
LaRee Dominguez (00:47:14):
Wow, yeah, thank you for that. Thank you both for your answers and some guidance for our listeners and ourselves. If you had the power to assign three EDI-related learning resources as homework, what would you require all Oregon library workers to read, watch, or listen to in order for them to further their own knowledge of EDI?
Brandace Rojo (00:47:44):
Yeah, so I came up with a few places for folks who are at the beginning of their journey.
LaRee Dominguez (00:47:52):
That's great.
Brandace Rojo (00:47:53):
Yeah, yeah, because there might be people listening to this who don't know how far along they are in this journey and maybe are just starting. A great place to start, and I can send you guys the link to this afterwards so you can include it in your notes, is the Harvard Implicit Bias Test. I don't know if any of you have ever taken this before, but years ago, this was where I started my journey in and realizing that everybody has bias. It doesn't matter who you are. And, Kristen, you spoke to this a little bit earlier, I don't know if it was Kristen or LaRee, but one of you was saying that there might be people out there who are not seeing things happening, so they think that this work doesn't need to exist. This is just a great starting point is to take this test and see where you lie.
(00:48:52):
A great article is from Dr. Michele Villagran, who Josephine Community Library recently did a year-long cultural competence course with. She's actually involved with REFORMA National, but her article is from 2018, it's called Minimizing and Addressing Implicit Bias in the Workplace. I'll send you guys the link to that as well. And then there's just a really awesome children's book that's called IntersectionAllies: We Make Room for All, and it's by Carolyn Choi and Chelsea Johnson, and I really love this children's book. Each character's story explains how children's safety concerns are shaped by their intersecting identities, whether it be class or sexuality, disability, race, religion, citizenship, but it's also a good starting point. Sometimes those children's books are what we need to open our eyes and start doing a little bit more of that work.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:50:02):
Yeah. I like that you reference the children's books because, oftentimes, I feel like, working in a library, that's an easy place to navigate someone towards, which they might have some hesitancy in really starting off somewhere where they might have some discomfort or might not feel that they know where they're starting at, and those books are always so poignant and succinct in the manner that they share information that it really is a great resource.
(00:50:30):
I want to give a plus-one to what you said about the Harvard Implicit Bias Test as well because I think that's one that, while you might take it when you're first on your journey, I think it's always good to go back and check in because I think the one thing that I take away, when thinking about bias and working through biases, is that we all have them and they always exist. It's what allows us to function in the world to things that we do, but there's some bias that plays in that really has really harmful impacts to how we interact or how we might treat others, and I think that's the place where we really need to be considering. I think that tool is a great one.
(00:51:11):
And another one that I'm thinking of, it's an old one and I remember it from library school, and it was probably my first introduction to thinking about bias and privilege, at least within libraries, since we hadn't done any training like this in a workplace that I was in, but it's the White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack article by Peggy McIntosh. And it's two, three pages, but I think it's helpful to go back and be thinking about the privilege that we all might have that we don't realize, whether it's where we can gather and be with people, whether it's the things we can purchase with ease at any store we walk into, and it's one that I go back to and can always go through a question and think about it in thinking about my journey and my process, through EDI.
(00:52:03):
And I think another toolkit, if people haven't gotten to it, is the OLA toolkit. I think the OLA EDI toolkit is a great place for someone to keep going back. I think, when thinking about any tools or resources that are available, it's a continual journey. You'll never get to a point where you've mastered it and can point it off as being like, "I'm done with this work." It's ongoing work. And I think going back to those things that perhaps started you on your journey, if you feel you're farther along or you haven't started, creating that list and going back to those early starting points are always good places to go.
(00:52:45):
And, frankly, sometimes I even think somewhere our people can go is, frankly, out in their community and really going out as someone who's going to their community to listen or attending a participatory event, whether it is if you have school-aged children in your life or if there's community events going on that impact others more than it does you, those are places where I think you can go to see how things that you might not consider to be impactful to your life impact other people. And especially when we're talking about services that we're rendering through libraries and what that might look like to our communities, that really going in and listening to other people and listening to their challenges and really thinking about how you can provide space for those challenges or support people navigating challenges, especially outside of libraries, because I think this is more than just work that takes place 9:00 to 5:00, or whatever schedule you work at a library. It's work that's ongoing and, hopefully, it's something that people are taking outside of the workplace to figure out how to bring it back into the workplace.
LaRee Dominguez (00:53:54):
Those are great places for us to start and look at, again, some of those...like the Harvard Implicit Bias, I haven't looked at that for a while and I think that's a great idea to go back and look at some of these beginning things and see where you are right now. Those are great suggestions. Thank you both.
Kristen Curé (00:54:26):
Yes, thank you both so much. This has been a really engaging conversation and it's really an honor to be able to talk to both of you outside of me taking minutes during our REFORMA meetings. I've learned so much from both of you today. Thank you.
Brandace Rojo (00:54:45):
Thank you for having us. It's been a great conversation. I feel like we could have spent so much time on really any of these topics. You guys came up with some really great questions. Thank you for being thoughtful.
LaRee Dominguez (00:54:57):
Thank you both for sharing with us.
Eduardo Arizaga (00:55:01):
Yeah, thank you all so much. I really enjoyed the conversation we got to have today. And, as Brandace shared, I do think that any one of these questions, we could have just talked about for the entire duration. I appreciate the breadth of questions that you brought today and allowed us to share. And, if anyone continues to have any questions about REFORMA, feel free to reach out to Reformistas or visiting the REFORMA Oregon website, and we're happy to connect, discuss, collaborate, and work with all of you.
Brandace Rojo (00:55:40):
We all like to talk. We'll help you out.
Kristen Curé (00:55:43):
Talking is important, building relationships. Thank you so much.
LaRee Dominguez (00:55:49):
Kristen, can you share with me a little bit of the takeaways and the points that really felt important to you in this discussion?
Kristen Curé (00:56:01):
Yeah, thanks, LaRee. I feel like there were some themes that we kept coming back to with each question. And, for me, one of those themes that kept popping up was that this work is so connected to relationships, building connections with other people and building trust and just being with other folks and creating that space and time for the relationship-building.
(00:56:34):
I saw a couple different ways, in this conversation, that Brandace and Eddie talked about how that's done, and one was, in Josephine County, when Brandace was talking about the after hours program that her library district was holding for BIPOC folks in the community, bringing them to the library after hours every month and feeding them dinner and just working on building that trust and relationship, and then people coming back and getting library cards and bringing their families to the library. That's one way of creating that space. And then the other came up in our discussion about how to best support our BIPOC colleagues, right, and that's also creating space, but in a different way, the space to attend a support group or an affinity group meeting, the time in your schedule to do that.
LaRee Dominguez (00:57:29):
Yeah, that that's an important one. I also thought a lot about, several times, both Brandace and Eddie mentioned that doing this work alone is very lonely and exhausting, and that is so true, and it goes back to the relationship-building. And it's so important to find support and allies and affinity groups where you can share what's happening with yourself and listen to others sharing and find out that you have a lot of common ground. That is really important. And I think really making sure, Eddie mentioned, make sure that you find someone in your organization and, if you can't find someone in your organization, go outside, and that's where the affinity groups and some of REFORMA and the EDIA Committee and different OLA groups can really help. And you've got to have support and build support around this, and there are so many people that are in these groups that are willing and ready to help you in your journey, that that's really important
Kristen Curé (00:59:08):
Yeah. That's really one of the big things that it comes down to, being able to do the work is around relationships. They both had a lot to say about that, and it really stuck with me that some of the last things that Eddie said today were exactly that this work, not only is it exhausting and lonely, right, if you're doing it alone, but really you can't continue the work alone, and he even brought up that not only just finding those affinity groups and your allies, but also that, when doing this work in your organization, having the work done across work groups, right, that all the different areas of the library are working on this, it's not just the outreach person, and having the management involved as well is the way to moving forward.
LaRee Dominguez (01:00:05):
It's really important in both of these, both supporting BIPOC workers and going across departments in your library to have the leadership understand and support this as well.
(01:00:30):
Want to point out that we're all available, we have resources that are listed and encourage all of our listeners to use those resources and use the toolkit, and there are lots of little reminders in these resources that will help you on your journey. It's a continuous journey, and I like pointing out...Eddie was talking about how we can move forward in this journey, and then it's a good idea to look back at the information you had at first, that you first looked at, and see where you are. I like that, being able to circle back and make sure that you can reaffirm that you are moving forward and that you are making a journey.
Kristen Curé (01:01:31):
I'm definitely going to go back and take that Harvard Implicit Bias Test after this.
LaRee Dominguez (01:01:34):
Yes. I haven't taken it for a long time.
Kristen Curé (01:01:38):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. It's been really great having this conversation with you today, LaRee.
LaRee Dominguez (01:01:48):
Thank you. I'm glad that we were all able to get together and have this conversation that, in some respects, felt like we had to shorten and we could talk about this stuff all day long.
Kristen Curé (01:02:06):
Yes, it never ends.
LaRee Dominguez (01:02:06):
It's awesome.
Kristen Curé (01:02:10):
It is. That's a very optimistic, positive note to end on. Yeah.
LaRee Dominguez (01:02:18):
Well, thank you, Kristen, and thank you, Brandace and Eddie.
[Voiceover] (01:02:22):
This project was made possible in part by the Institute of Museum and Library Services through the Library Services and Technology Act administered by the State Library of Oregon.
(01:02:33):
Este proyecto ha sido posible en parte por el Instituto de Servicios de Museos y Bibliotecas a través de la Ley de Servicios de Biblioteca y Tecnológia (LSTA), administrada por la Biblioteca Estado de Oregón.
[Voiceover] (01:02:48):
We would like to take time to acknowledge historical injustices. We recognize Oregon was established as a white sanctuary state with the intent to exclude African American and Black people on ancestral lands stolen from dispossessed Indigenous peoples. We recognize and honor the members of federally recognized tribes and unrecognized tribes of Oregon. We honor Native American ancestors, past, present, and future, whose land we still occupy. This acknowledgment aims to deconstruct false histories, correct the historical record and disrupt genocidal practices by refocusing attention to the original people of the land we inhabit, the slave trade and forced labor that built this country, and to the oppressive social systems interwoven into the fabric of our national and regional heritage. We ask that you take a moment to acknowledge and reflect as well.
[Outro Music Playing]