OVERDUE: Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries

S3, E10: Health Librarianship w/Jamia Williams

• OVERDUE: Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries • Season 3 • Episode 10

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode, the hosts welcome back Jamia Williams, co-creator and co-host of the podcast LibVoices, which amplifies the voices of Black, indigenous, and people of color who work in archives and libraries. This time around, Williams, a Consumer Health Program Specialist with the Network of the National Library of Medicine (NNLM) Training Office, discusses health literacy, resources and advocacy. In addition, she touches upon the topic of barriers to recruitment, retention and advancement, better preparing library students, and A.I.

Hosts: Bryan Miyagishima and Joan Vigil
Date of recording:  November 21, 2024
 
Mentioned in this episode:
Find out how to become a free member of the NNLM, to access trainings, or explore resources. Membership is open to libraries, and other institutions such as community partner organizations. Explore the Membership FAQ to know more.

Explore the Joint Librarians of Color (JCLC, Inc.) website to know more, and find out about upcoming conference opportunities. 

NALCO refers to American Library Association ethnic affiliates: American Indian Library Association (AILA), the Asian/Pacific American Librarians Association (APALA), the Black Caucus of the American Library Association (BCALA), the Chinese American Librarians Association (CALA), and REFORMA: The National Association to Promote Library & Information Services to Latinos and the Spanish-speaking. 

Readings include: 

(Intro music playing)

Bryan Miyagishima:
Hello and welcome to OVERDUE, Weeding Out Oppression in Libraries, a podcast produced by the Oregon Library Association's Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Anti-Racism Committee. I'm Bryan Miyagishima, Director of the Lincoln County Library District in Newport, Oregon, and member of the OLA EDIA Committee. My pronouns are he/his. My co-host today is Joan Vigil.

Joan Vigil:
Hello, I am Joan Vigil, Assistant Director of Public Services at Jackson County Library Services. And my pronouns are she/her. Today we are joined by guest, Jamia Williams. Jamia Williams is a Consumer Health Program Specialist with the Network of National Library Medicine Training Office. She earned her Bachelor's of Science in History from the State University of New York at Brockport and earned her Master's of Library Science Degree from North Carolina Central University. 

Jamia brings a public service-oriented and inclusive approach to working effectively and collaboratively with students, faculty, clinicians, the public, and other patrons of diverse identities from cultural backgrounds. Her professional affiliations include the Medical Library Association, the Black Caucus American Library Association, the American Library Association, the Journal of American Medical Association, Network Library Advisory Board, and the New York Library Association, and the Association of College and Research Libraries. 

Williams is the co-creator and co-host of the podcast, Lift Voices, which amplifies the voices of Black, indigenous and people of color who work in archives and libraries. Jamia founded the Diversity Fellows Blog to document her journey as a Black librarian. Her research interests are diversity, inclusion, equity, social justice, and health equity in and outside librarianship.

Bryan Miyagishima:
Welcome, Jamia. We've got a couple icebreaker questions before we get started. What's one skill or talent you have you wish others knew you possessed? And what library here or abroad would you like to visit one day and why?

Jamia Williams:
So, one skill that I possess is, well, first of all, I love music, so I started DJing this year, so I can DJ at a party or event. So that is one skill that I possess that I don't think most people know unless you follow me on Instagram. Then you saw my pictures. 

 And a library that I would love to visit is the Schomburg Center in Harlem, New York. It showcases Black culture, and I haven't been to Harlem, so it'll be a great trip to first of all go to Harlem and then also check out the Schomburg, which I know has a great collection of Black culture.

Bryan Miyagishima: 
Thank you.

Joan Vigil:
Okay. Please tell us about your former professional experience as an academic health sciences librarian. For folks who do not know, what does a consumer health program specialist at NNLM Training Office do?

Jamia Williams:
Okay, so my journey started at Upstate Medical University in Syracuse, New York at their health sciences library. And that is where I was called the Diversity Fellow, which is similar to a residency program. And the reason why they didn't call it a residency program, because when you're in medicine, that means something totally different to be a resident. So they didn't want my title to get conflated with those that were truly residents in the medical profession. 

 There is where I realized I wanted to stay in health sciences librarianship, because before I became a librarian, one of the professions I was considering was nursing. And so I felt like it was a mix of both of my interests, which is health and also librarianship. And so, I realized I didn't have to be a nurse, that I could support people that are nurses or people that want to become nurses, and more broadly be an integral part around health literacy, health research and health information. So that's how my journey started.

 And what my position is, consumer health program specialist, is basically the Medical Library Association has a consumer health information specialization, which we call it CHIS, C-H-I-S, Consumer Health Information Specialization. MLA, the Medical Library Association, has a couple of specializations, and that's one of them where people can take continuing education credits to get this specialization. So my job is to help people get that specialization and also renew for that specialization to happen. So that's basically in a nutshell what I do.

Joan Vigil:
Okay, thank you. I think that's really interesting. Have you ever thought about dabbling in other areas of librarianship or you're like, "This section is for me of health librarianship?"

Jamia Williams:
So initially I wanted to go into archives. However, North Carolina Central University where I received my master's, their online program didn't incorporate archival specialization. So I had to make a decision. And so I went to... My backup was academic librarianship was my concentration. So I knew I wanted to work in academic libraries, and I did at the time wanted to work in archives. But then I realized because of my area where I'm at and I knew I couldn't move for an archival type of position, I went to plan B, which was digging deeper into research and instruction side of librarianship and then more narrowly into health sciences librarianship. 

 So yeah, I wanted to do archival work like my dream job. And it's still... Well, I know it won't really happen, because it's hard to get a job now. But if I had a dream job, it would be working in the archives and teaching, so coupling both of my interests. So showing students or showing faculty or showing the community how to utilize the archives of special collections, that would be my dream job. And especially in a health sciences library, that would be my dream job. Unless someone gives me a lot of money to create that type of position, I don't see that happening, but that would be what I would love to do.

Joan Vigil:
Great. Thank you.

Bryan Miyagishima:
Thanks, Jamia. There's a disturbing lack of diversity within librarianship. In fact, you speak to this issue in a 2021 article published in the Journal of the Medical Library Association entitled, New to Health Sciences Librarianship, Strategies, Tips and Tricks, which was co-authored by Kelsa Bartley and Jahala Simuel. Remedying this lack of diversity requires a multifaceted approach, which includes overcoming barriers to recruitment, retention and advancement. Given your experience and observations, what made all the difference as far as your career is concerned?

Jamia Williams:
As far as my career is concerned, I'll say two things that made the difference. The first thing is that the director at Upstate Medical University had the vision to create the diversity fellowship for my position. Honestly, if it wasn't for her creating that position, I would not be a librarian. I applied to a lot of jobs and I got nowhere. I didn't even get initial interviews. I got one around the time I did my second interview with Upstate from a university in Pennsylvania. But other than that, I was just getting rejection after rejection. Some places didn't even send me that. So if it wasn't for her creating that position for an early career librarian, I wouldn't have been able to get into the profession. And because I don't have the ability to move, I was really limited. If I had the ability to move, my chances would've been greater. But because I could not do that, I was beholden to my area, which is limited, and that's what I had to do. 

 And mind you, Syracuse is an hour and 40 minutes from where I live. So I did that commute. I could have moved my family to Syracuse, but it's, to me, not a good fit for my family and my situation. So I knew that was a sacrifice I had to take. And thankfully, I have a supportive spouse that was okay with me being on the road for four hours at least. And that's not including snow because we get a lot of snow. And if you're used to dealing with snow, you have to... Where we are from, they expect you to be there, and their expectation is, "Well double commute time, good luck," and not, "We're shutting everything down," which I would love to live in an area that does that. 

 But nevertheless, that's the main thing, that position opened the door for me. Because then it gave me the leverage I needed to show other employers, "Oh, she can do it." And I didn't get the benefit of the doubt. And I know a lot of factors play in the place of that, but I don't want to go on a rant down that rabbit hole. 

 And the second thing I would say what made the difference is peer mentorship. If I didn't have peers in this profession that championed me, that guided me, that supported me, that uplifted me, I still wouldn't be in this profession. When I didn't have that level of support that I needed and was looking for my peers that have worked their way up through the ranks in this profession, and those of us that came into this profession as our second career, really were what guided me and kept me. So those two pieces, I feel is what made the difference.

Bryan Miyagishima: 
I think I can echo your experience, Jamia. I know that in my very first academic library position at St. Cloud State University in Minnesota, if it wasn't for my mentor, Keith Ewing, who argued vociferously on my behalf during the search process and then provided me both introductions and projects, which really got me launched in my career, I don't think that I would be here today.

Joan Vigil:
Systemic racism, the digital divide and other barriers pose a significant risk to public health. And some librarians around the nation have become partners in health, doing what they can to offer evidence-based health literacy in order to dispel health misinformation, improve health equity, and access and mitigate health disparities. Can you share with our listeners what some of the resources are available via the network of the National Library of Medicine that might be of use to libraries seeking to overcome barriers to health literacy?

Jamia Williams:
Yes. I work in the training office. So we have trainings that are free that library workers can access and utilize to stay up to date around topics like health literacy, the digital divide, and some other courses that will be coming out to address up and coming trends. So I would say for folks to take advantage of that.

 Also, we provide funding. Our network is divided up into seven regions. And so, check with your region to see what type of funding there is to support the type of work you want to do around health literacy and try to collaborate with other organizations in your area to dig deep into that topic. And lastly, I would say that we have, besides training, we also have guides and toolkits that are readily available and that you should be able to utilize to help around this topic.

Bryan Miyagishima:
Jamia, for libraries who've yet to become partners in health, can you share some of the benefits of increased health literacy, particularly when it comes to underserved members of our communities?

Jamia Williams:
Yes. I would say that it's beneficial, because as the saying goes, "When you know better, you do better."

 First of all, you have to know that you do have a voice and you can't advocate for yourself to your provider, your healthcare provider. And being able to show them that, "Hey, I did do the research on this," and utilizing resources like Medline Plus is very helpful. It does a great job, I feel like, in ensuring that health topics are in plain language for folks to utilize. And it is beautiful, because it does have options for you to get it in different languages outside of just English. There's videos, there's all kinds of guides and information in Medline Plus, which is a product of NLM.

 So, I would say once you understand that you are your own advocate and that you have a voice, that's a great part in your health literacy. And then also finding reliable health information is also key. So where can you go to access that? And that's where we come into play showing librarians where there is reliable health information, what organizations is doing the work, what databases you can rely on to pull that information. 

 And when I used to answer health reference questions for community members, and I had this experience, too, where people feel like their doctors aren't listening to them, "So what do I do?"

 And I always, "Get another opinion. Even if they are listening to you, you always can get another opinion."

 And yeah, that's a privilege in a way to have that time to do that. But if you do, do it. And also, just understand your power and that they should be listening to what your health concerns are. And I do appreciate that in the last couple of years, I have seen, well, at least in my area, that when you go to a doctor's appointment, they do have information about the diagnosis or the new medication that you're on. And I feel like they're starting to do a better job of putting things in plain language and offering people that information so they can do the groundwork and dig into that themselves. So yeah, I think overall, if people have an increase in health literacy, they can continue to advocate for themselves or feel confident to advocate for themselves, and then also understand things that their doctors might be missing or never considered before, and providing that lens can also be helpful.

Joan Vigil:
What do you wish schools with an MLIS program would do to adequately prepare BIPOC library students for the world of librarianship? And on that note, how do we attract more BIPOC MLIS students to health services librarianship?

Jamia Williams:
One thing that's concerning is I feel like some curriculum is not keeping up with what is actually happening in libraries. And that's the sentiment that I'm hearing from a lot of librarians, even outside of academic or health sciences librarianship, which is where I reside, public librarians are saying this as well. The reality versus the curricula is so different. 

 For instance, when academic librarianship was my concentration, we didn't talk about instruction. And that's a heavy part of academic librarianship for the most part, is you're going to teach. You're going to be teaching, you're going to be engaging with students in that type of regard. So I should have heard of pedagogy, I should have heard of andragogy. I should have heard of critical literacy. I should have heard a lot of things that I didn't hear and a lot of things I had to pull from my own experiences to do what I needed to do once I became a librarian. So I feel like that's one of the missing pieces. 

 And I feel like with BIPOC library students, definitely start to build community while you're in school. Take advantage of the low costs of memberships in these organizations. Take advantage of getting involved in Reforma, BCALA, AILA, CALA, APALA, so all the NALCo's it's called. I would say get involved in those. And some of them, like BCALA for instance, the Black Caucus American Library Association, it's free for students right now. So that's something you can do. 

 I know when I was in grad school, New York Library Association and the American Library Association had a joint membership where it was one fee to be a member of both. State associations have that deal, too, where you can be a member of your state association as well as American Library Association. So that's a way to start networking and building community more importantly with other people that have similar backgrounds from you or different backgrounds from you to see how it is in the profession. And also to build that mentorship, like I was saying, peer mentorship, formal mentorship or even informal mentor relationships so you can understand what it means to be in this profession, especially as a Black, indigenous or person of color, I think is definitely helpful.

 How do we attract more BIPOC MILS students to health sciences librarianship? I think taking advantage of those career days, or when... I know for instance, when I was at the University of Rochester, they would have high school students come for summertime. They would come there to understand the health profession and the different careers. So if they're doing stuff like that and you're a health sciences librarian, see if you can be a part of that so that you can pique interest of high schoolers and like, "Oh wow, I never thought that I could be a librarian working at a hospital library or a medical library or a health sciences library," and do that way. 

 I would say also us just getting involved with our communities and showing up and them seeing like, "Oh, what do you do?"

 "I'm a librarian."

 "A librarian?" So that piques a conversation and that's just an easy touch point that possibly can help. 

 So I think that's little ways. Bigger ways, we do need to do a better job of showcasing what we do and advertising ourselves. So I love when I see people that are heavily on social media or they have their own blogs or YouTube channels and podcasts like this showing what we do. And so, when someone is interested and they see a librarian that looks like them, they want to know more, they can put in a search and say, "Oh, there are stories out there of how it is or what this is all about." So just keep on making that content to get it out there to students about what is it that we do, and so that can start their inquiry and hopefully help them come alongside us and be our colleagues.

Bryan Miyagishima:
I think I can agree with some of your same sentiments, Jamia, that what library schools don't prepare you for is the shocking lack of diversity within the library profession. And there's nobody to pull you aside and say, "Hey, as a person of color, you might find it a little bit isolating, especially given the fact in academic libraries where I've spent most of my career, you have to travel from where you went to school in order to get that first job. And I think it's almost a disservice that there is nobody around to pull you aside and say, "Hey, here's some ways that you might prepare for this."

Jamia Williams:
Yeah, it's definitely important. I know I was shocked, even though I knew the statistics. Because, I was just curious when I was doing my research when I was an undergrad. And the reason why is because I didn't see anyone that looked like me in the library, because I was a heavy library user, public library, school library. I was fortunate to have the school library. School library, public library, academic library, I saw no one that looked like me. So I was like, "There's a problem with diversity obviously, and what have they been trying to do?"

 And so, I was seeing what initiatives that were happening, but I still was shocked, "There's really no one here that looks like me. What?"

 Yeah, since my first job, I haven't worked with anyone else that's been Black. The Black librarian, I've been the only one since my first librarian job, which is sad, but that's my reality. And I know that's not everybody's reality, because some librarians I meet, that's all they know is working with other Black librarians, but not for me.

Bryan Miyagishima: 
And it's the same here as an Asian-American as well. And while I've worked in rural America long enough so that it's not necessarily problematic to be able to bridge two cultures, it does feel isolating personally.

Jamia Williams:
Yeah, and I don't like it. I don't like it at all. That's one thing I did learn. I'm like, "I don't like it. I like diversity. I miss that." Because I came from the human services profession, and it was diverse.

Joan Vigil:
I like that you mentioned getting involved with library associations early. I think that was one of my biggest mistakes is that I didn't do it. I didn't know about it, didn't know what they could do for me. And so in retrospect, I would've definitely joined up early because you get so much support, and you can find people that look like you and can support you, too.

Jamia Williams:
Yeah, and I'm trying to tell you, the membership is way cheaper than when you become a librarian. So take advantage of that. And then by the time you get your first gig, you'll still have the student rate for a little bit until you have a little money in your pocket. So take advantage of it as much as possible.

Bryan Miyagishima:
Well, going back to the main topic of health librarianship, how can libraries advance health equity for African-American and Black community members?

Jamia Williams:
Oh, that's a great question. I think continually to be a part of the research around African-American, Black people. There's people that are trying to do the research around how to best support us. And so, trying to make inroads into being a part of that type of work, I think is good. That's all I can think of is just being a part of the research that's hopefully helpful to breaking down the barriers in regards to health disparities. It's a systemic issue around health equity, and we as library workers are barely being supported with what we need. So it has to be a healthcare system fix. I'm trying to be visionary, but it's tough. So that's all I got. It's around research. We can help with that. We know how to find the information.

Joan Vigil:
Thank you. Are there any programs, services, or strategies not yet discussed that you wish more public, academic or school libraries would implement to improve health literacy within their communities? And are there any libraries doing the work you wish to highlight at this time?

Jamia Williams:
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services addresses both personal health literacy and organizational health literacy in their new Health People 2030 Definitions. So personal health literacy, they define is the degree to which individuals have the ability to find, understand and use information and services to inform health-related discussions and actions for themselves and others. And then they define organizational health literacy as the degree to which organizations equitably enable individuals to find, understand and use information and services to inform health-related discussions and actions for themselves and others. 

 And I wanted to start off with those definitions so that the listeners can have a foundation of what we mean by health literacy. So libraries play a vital role in advancing organizational health literacy by ensuring individuals have access to reliable health information and the support they need to navigate and utilize it effectively. So the ways that they can support people in understanding and using information is to have programming that showcases health topics so that they can collaborate with health organizations and clinicians in their communities to discuss different health topics.

 Even if libraries provide the space for health programming to take place, many libraries already have book clubs. So one of those months, they can discuss a book about a topic while bringing in health professionals to answer any questions. NNLM has many resources to support book discussions and to help fund programming that needs funding. 

 So I know that there are many libraries doing this work, hence why they apply for funding from NNLM. So there isn't one library that I want to shout out. However, if you take a look at our past funded projects, you can see the amazing work that a lot of libraries are doing. So hopefully, this will bring into light the many ways that we can take part in the fight for health literacy within our communities, because it's definitely important for folks to understand and to have the language to advocate for themselves in their own health-related decisions.

Bryan Miyagishima:
But I think that places an onus on all libraries to engage in this work. And I think that goes to our last question today, and that is, what challenges or opportunities does generative AI pose for your work? Are there any projects currently underway to leverage this technology or educate people about AI-generated misinformation and disinformation?

Jamia Williams:
So AI, generative AI in particular, is something that I myself am getting familiar with and utilizing. And I just wrote a blog post about this, too. But research about Dr. Leo doing research about librarians not feeling comfortable with AI, not understanding what it's all about. So the horse is out of the barn and we're trying to get it back in, and it's too late. So we're just trying to keep up with what it is all about. 

 So what I've been trying to do is just learn from Black scholars, women of color scholars, that have been sounding the alarm about AI for years and doing the research around it and talking about it. And with any of our technology, bias does play a role. And if junk goes in, junk comes out. So people that are creating these technologies have their own biases and own things that are playing a part or forgetting about, leaving out Black people, people of color, indigenous people, then it's going to miss a step.

 Just like I have a struggle when I have to wash my hands, and it's not detecting my skin tone, because I'm pretty sure they weren't testing my skin tone. Just like with different technologies with oximeter, checking our oxygen level, that's off. Why is that off? Because it wasn't tested on people with melanated skin. It was like a lot of things that were just being left out of the conversation, left out, period, because it's the dominant narrative, the dominant voice that is going into our technology. And so, just keep engaging in a way with making that the forefront. 

 But basically, I'm just reading, I'm in a learning mode about what is the dangers, what is the benefits of AI myself? And I don't know how that would play out, how that has played out in medicine. I know that it's being utilized to index our articles that that might cause a problem with missing some things. So it's going to continue to evolve, and hopefully we'll continue to have a say, and if not, force a say into how it's being utilized. 

 So I'm happy to see that there are librarians that do have guides that have been created to engage with AI to help students and help community members engage with it. And I know things will keep coming out, trainings and talks and books and all the things, so we can continue on. But yeah, I'm just in the learning mode, and I just play around with it here and there. Because I've been using Grammarly, for instance, for two and a half years, and that's AI. And I know publishers, that's one thing they will ask for, "Have you used AI in this publication?"

 So, "Yes, yes, I have." It checked my grammar, but it didn't give me all my thoughts. So, yeah.

Bryan Miyagishima: 
Maybe we're just wrong to use intelligence as part of the phrase.

Jamia Williams:
Yeah. Because sometimes it cracks me up what comes up. And the whole idea of it making up citations still, I'm like, "Is this a real citation?"

 "No, I was just giving an example."

 "Why didn't you say that?"

 Because people are getting requests from students requesting articles, and it's not an article, it's not a thing. It's fake. So that's messing up with our services. And they're engaging with us and they're like, "Well, I found this article."

 I'm like, "Where did you find it?"

 And come to find out ChatGPT told you. And so now, "Let's start from the beginning. So we have these databases that you have access to because you're attached to this institution. You should take advantage of it. First of all, because you're paying for it. Second of all, once you leave here, you won't have it anymore, have access to it because it's behind the paywall."

 So understanding what that is, what that means. If I was in academic libraries, I would have that conversation with students, because I would have that conversation with them in regards to Wikipedia. I know when I was in grad school, they were telling us, "Don't let the... Run students away from Wikipedia."

 But the research shows a lot of people start there. So if they're going to start there, then we need to have that conversation like, "Okay, you're going to start here, so then don't stay here, because you have access to a whole array of other things. And research is a journey. So have fun with it."

Bryan Miyagishima:
Thanks, Jamia. We're going to put a link to your blog in our podcast notes. I am going to put you on the spot just one more time in just a minute as we wrap up. First off, thank you so much, Jamia, for being with us today.

Jamia Williams:
Thank you.

Bryan Miyagishima:
It's been wonderful getting to know a little bit more about your work. We usually end our podcast with a host call to action. And since this is the first episode recorded post 2024 presidential election, I'm going to ask everyone in this space if they happen to have a librarian call to action. And I'll go ahead and start and then throw it over to Joan, and then give you the last word, Jamia, if you don't mind. And I guess my call to action for us, given what Jamia shared with us today, is find and promote reliable information. I think that we shouldn't be scared of promoting reliable information sources. Accuracy is not ideological. All right, throwing it to you, Joan.

Joan Vigil:
So my call to action is just to be kind to yourself and don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. There are people out there who are willing to help you and listen, you just got to reach out.

Bryan Miyagishima:
And we're going to end up with you. Jamia. You've got the last word to finish up.

Jamia Williams:
I would say, take care of yourself. I would say, find your people if you haven't found your people. If you found your people, love on your people. Hold everyone close and remember that we are better together, and that we're stronger together, and that we need each other more than we want to admit. I thought we learned that during the global pandemic, but it feels like we have not. So hopefully, we truly will realize the power in that. And that's what I would love for us to be called to action to do, to do better with each other and ourselves.

(Voiceover)
This project was made possible in part by the Institute of Museum and Library Services through the Library Services and Technology Act administered by the State Library of Oregon.

Este proyecto ha sido posible en parte por el Instituto de Servicios de Museos y Bibliotecas a través de la Ley de Servicios de Biblioteca y Tecnológia (LSTA), administrada por la Biblioteca Estado de Oregón.

(Voiceover)
We would like to take time to acknowledge historical injustices. We recognize Oregon was established as a white sanctuary state with the intent to exclude African-American and Black people on ancestral lands stolen from dispossessed indigenous peoples. We recognize and honor the members of federally recognized tribes and unrecognized tribes of Oregon. We honor Native American ancestors, past, present, and future whose land we still occupy. 

 This acknowledgement aims to deconstruct false histories, correct the historical record, and disrupt genocidal practices by refocusing attention to the original people of the land we inhabit, the slave trade and forced labor that built this country, and to the oppressive social systems interwoven into the fabric of our national and regional heritage. We ask that you take a moment to acknowledge and reflect as well.

(Outro Music playing)