S3E6: When a Man Loves a Woman: Andrew Gottlieb, Damein Johnson, Derrick Bartley and Kishore Isaac Share From Their Hearts Straight to Yours

Women, have you ever wondered what makes a man tick? What do they desire from us as women? How do they see us? How do we get them and better yet, how do we keep them? Well, today's guests are sure to please!

Four men from all walks of life - Andrew divorced and open to love again, Damein happily married for over 25 years, Derrick happily married for over 5 years and Kishore has never been married and awaiting the one God has for him - share from their experiences and from their hearts.

Join us for lots of laughter, Godly wisdom, and insights that will hopefully enhance the love you have or point you in the right direction to finding it!

Oh, and by the way, you know we always ask our guests their favorite song. Well we couldn't come up with just one, so here's a Spotify playlist of some of our favorites! Enjoy! Love, Romance and Passion Playlist

And as always, Annie and I would love to hear from you. What burning questions do you have for our guests about love and relationships? How has your perspective on love changed your relationship? What's your ideal date night? What's the greatest love song ever? We wanna hear from you! Please share a text below or share your thoughts with us on IG @davenialeawrites, or on FB @annieraney and @daveniajoneslea.

Finally, your reviews mean the world to us, and they also assist us in spreading God's message of hope and victory across the globe! So please leave us a review on your favorite podcast player, on Apple or on our Podcast Webpage Tell us what you think of this episode and we'd also love to hear your story!

Today's episode song is When a Man Loves a Woman by Percy Sledge. Please note this song is for your listening enjoyment only and cannot be downloaded or shared.

Thanks for listening! From our hearts to yours!!

Annie and Davenia

Transcript

Annie: Welcome to the Didn't Ask to be a Hero podcast. I'm your host, Annie Raney. In each episode, we will get an opportunity to see how ordinary women are now living amazing, abundant and extraordinary lives with God's help.

May their stories serve to encourage and inspire you. Let's get started.

Hello, listeners, and welcome to another episode of Didn't Ask to Be a Hero, our podcast. And you know, the whole reason Davenia and I started this podcast was because we wanted to interview women who accidentally or not on purpose, become somebody's hero just because they've experienced and been through something in their life that other people admire them for.

So, ladies, today is a special, special treat.

We are changing things up, shaking it up. Davenia and I are because as you know, our guests have always been women. So can you guess where I'm going with that?

Today we actually invited some men to be our guests. And here's one of the things, ladies, I don't know where you are in your dating life. If you are married, if you are trying to be married, if you've been married, if you hope to get married.

I'm reflecting back on those days when I was trying to get married and I always wanted to know, what do men want? What are they thinking? Am I not good enough?

Am I not pretty enough? Am I not thin enough? I don't know. All these thoughts were going through my head and you know, God, is this a real God fearing man or is he using the Bible just to get me what's going on?

And I wanted to know what men think. Many Hollywood movies even dive into, what would men think? And you know, that's Hollywood. We're not Hollywood. We're real. So we thought, Divinia and I thought to ourselves, let's not wonder, let's ask some men what they think.

So, Davenia, why don't you kick it off by introducing our guest today?

Davenia: We are delighted to have with us some men, some of whom I've known forever, some just met and were sort of referred to us. And we think that this panel of men will be just an extraordinary conversation and give us insight into the heart of a man.

What, what, what do men think about women? And so today I am actually, I'm going to let our guests introduce themselves.

I think they can do a better job than I can. But we're going to start with, we'll start with Kishore. Kishore, welcome.

Annie: Hi.

Kishore: Thanks so much for the, for, for the opportunity to be a part of this podcast. I'M honored, I think, as well as the other guest to be one of the some of the first men on your broadcast.

So let me add just a little bit about myself. My name is Kishore Isaac. I'm from the Maryland area, born and raised. And I guess today I'll be answering some questions from the perspective of a single man.

Never been married yet or I'm looking to get married at some point, hopefully, you know, by God's grace, you know, when he has it in his hands and in his time.

Davenia: Cool. And just as a side note, many have referred to me as Cupid. So we can talk after this podcast and I might be able to help you in your quest.

So there you go. All right. How about you? Andrew.

Andrew: Hello, everyone. My name is Andrew Gottlieb, but you can call me Drew. I live in beautiful San Diego, California, on the west coast, which is the best coast, of course, but I'm originally from the DMV area, so that's always home.

I have been married, I'm divorced, but I'm brave enough to say that I want to be married again one day and I'm thankful to be here. I'm a poet and speaker and I'm looking forward to being part of this conversation.

Davenia: Great, great, great. And we can connect after too. Yeah, absolutely right. This might become the love connection, Annie. I don't know. All right. And Dean Damien.

Damein: Yes. Damien Johnson. I'm from the east coast, which is the Beast coast, born and raised, native Washingtonian. Go, go, go, Commanders.

Married, been married for 29 years. We celebrated 29 years in September of this year.

It's been, it's been a ride, ups and downs, but overall just, you know, blessed to be, to, to be married.

I have, we have three sons. Oldest is 33. We have a 27 year old and an 18 year old. So we're just thankful to, to be able to continue on.

It's a joy to be on this podcast and as we said earlier, it's honored to be a first men on this podcast.

Derrick: Thank you.

Damein: Thank you for the invitation.

Davenia: Nice. Thank you. We're just gonna jump right in with some questions because I'm eager to hear these responses. So, Annie, we'll start with you.

Annie: I am excited too because we're going to get different perspectives.

You know, listeners, you've heard somebody who's married, somebody who is been married and maybe looking to get married again and then somebody who's never been married. So ladies, let's dive in and see what this these men think.

I'm going to start with, actually a deep question. Okay. And maybe, you know, just let's hear a little bit of your response to this. I'd like to know individually, what is it that shaped your current perception of marriage?

What may have been your greatest influence or influences about marriage?

Let's see. Drew, let's start with you.

Andrew: Sure, sure, sure. Man, that is a deep question.

Let's see. I grew up in a household where I had a mom. My dad died when I was very young, four years old. I had three, four other siblings by myself, but the older two were away in academy in the States.

I grew up in the Virgin Islands, by the way.

Yeah. So it was the. My two other sisters at home, my mother, and not having a father there for some reason. I mean, I think that's what shaped it. For some reason, I always had this desire to be part of, like, a quote, unquote, complete family.

And I saw myself from young, always being married and being a father role and having that sort of a loving household kind of family. So I think my upbringing, maybe not having the complete what people would think of as a normal family kind of drove me to imagine, hey, family is important.

Being a father is something I've always looked forward to, playing that father role and being part of a loving relationship with a husband and wife type of relationship.

Annie: Well, thank you, Drew. Thank you for sharing.

So do I call you Pastor Damien? Is that what I'll call you? Pastor Damien? Can you share what shaped you. You're on mute. What shaped your.

Damein: Damien's good. Damien's good. I'll say. My. Well, my parents, obviously, they. My father died a little over a year ago, and they had been married over 50 years. And, you know, of course, I admired their relationship, their connection, as well as my grandparents, especially on my father's side.

Their commitment, their love for each other was very much evident.

Even little stuff. Remember my grandfather, he would come home from a long day's work, and my grandmother be in the kitchen. He would just mess with her teaser call it.

She had these little names for her and everything, and she'd be, stop that. Stop that. And I find myself doing that same thing with my wife. So I definitely say, you know, my parents, my grandparents, who, you know, were married for long term, those were my biggest influences, I think, in my perception of what marriage looks like.

Annie: Okay, thank you. How about you? Single, Kishore?

Kishore: Yeah.

Very similar to Pastor Damian's response. I've been blessed to have godly parents, seeing the way that they interacted. My parents are from India. It's We. It's a little bit different, right, because you have east meets east meets west when it comes to American and Indian culture being together.

So, you know, my father was a. Is a huge. Was a huge impact on, you know, the way that I view marriage, the way that I view a man's responsibilities.

My parents met in college. They actually fell in love, which was contrary to, you know, what. How things were back. Back in the day in India. They fell in love, they got married, immigrated here to the US and, you know, I saw from my dad the kind of the Eastern side of, you know, being the strong, responsible, manly figure.

But I also saw love and from him as well, and from my mom, I saw also some of the more extroverted shows of love from my mom. And I kind of understood, you know, together.

What a beautiful thing that, you know, both of those cultures have together.

Annie: It's interesting that the three men who just shared have all lost their fathers at different ages. Kishore just lost his dad last year in May. And, you know, so. Wow. That's just interesting, though, how impactful.

However long you've had your father in your life, it's affected your thinking. And we thought three men weren't enough. So we have another gentleman who's joining us for the conversation to make it an even four.

And I'd like for you to introduce. Tell us your name and just a little bit about where you are in your. In your relationship life.

Derrick: A little bit about myself, I don't know. My name's Derek Bartley.

I'm married six years. I have moved from England to Canada to be with my wife, who is Canadian.

And.

And, yeah, this is where I am in my journey right now. Six years into a relationship. I started to date my wife 10 years ago in 2014.

And because I was baptized in 2014 and I met my wife when she did not have a relationship with Christ.

Because I am an old gentleman who had previous relationships. Once I committed my life to Christ, I said to God, God, I don't want a woman who is not a Christian, because this would be antithetical to, you know, the values that I have now committed to.

And so when I had met Shaney, my wife, I was kind of in my relationship with Garda. I was told to tell her about, you know, my changes and who I am.

And I just thought to myself, when you tell a girl in the world about your changes, you know, she could just run a mile. Like, I'm not interested in this Christian stuff.

I'm just interested in you.

But she didn't. She showed a humble attitude towards it, and she just wanted to know more about my changes and. And which I was surprised about, you know. And so I just started.

God said, just tell her about me. And so that's what I did and could. Long story short, here we are now being married, you know, happily married for the last six years.

Annie: Wonderful. Derek, welcome. And so here's the deep question that I started with. What is it that shaped your perception of marriage? What was your greatest influence in how you think of marriage?

Derrick: I think from what I've heard from all the other men on the panel, that it was my parents who had been together for 50, you know, 50 years.

Yeah, exactly. So seeing my parents bring up five of us in the UK and how they coped and saw very little fallouts and arguments and see my father working his job, getting up at, you know, five in the morning, going to his job and coming six, seven in the night, and my mother also working and taking care of us, you know, five children, and I'm the second youngest of those five.

You know, for all those years, that gave me my work ethic, that gave me an understanding of what marriage and unity and togetherness, you know, was like. So I believe that that formed my understanding of what.

How I needed to conduct myself as a man.

And many of those attributes I have taken from my parents.

Annie: Wonderful. If you see all ladies, you're listening. All of them have been influenced by their parents, interestingly enough now.

So I'd like us all to think about who are we influencing now with our own relationships? The, you know, the cycle continues. Right. So now I'd like to ask some questions to see what you gentlemen think so that we women can have a little bit of insight into our own relationships and our dating life.

So let me ask you this. If a woman is interested in a guy, should she play hard to get or not? What do you think, Kishore?

Kishore: Oh, okay. We're starting with me.

I think, you know, everyone is different. For me personally, I. I don't like too much the. The games, so I. I prefer a little bit more of. A little bit more straightforward.

But I understand, like, there is something to chase as well, but not. Not too. Not too difficult where, like, it's, you know, it's like mixed signals. You know what I mean?

So a little bit be. Be as straightforward as you can. But, you know, I understand also that people like to chase guys like, the chase.

Annie: And. Oh, interesting now is that that's spoken from a single man. So let's see. Somebody who's been married for over 25 years. Damian, what do you think?

Damein: I didn't think you would bring that question to me. Way out of that.

Yeah. I mean, I think if I were in those shoes, I think kind of like what Kishore said, I definitely respect the chase.

Well, well, I mean, let me. Let me say, I think a woman should be very selective, should be thinking about what. What she really would like to see in a person she's going to be dating.

So from that standpoint, being not too quick to jump into a relationship, but kind of checking things out and making sure that this is a person who I may want to, you know, talk to, I think that's totally appropriate.

And I think a man should understand that and he should be on the same page. Really, in this day and time, that's. That's kind of how I look at it.

Annie: Okay, I'm going to switch the question around for the other two. So, Drew and Derek, I'm going to ask you this question.

So, you know, both Kishore and Damon kind of said the same thing. You know, it's a little bit of a chase, but not a game. So how should a woman show you that she might be interested in you?

What would you look for? Drew, let's go to you.

Andrew: Okay. For me, I'm. I.

My heart melts when people smile, you know, So I love a good smile, you know, and for me, I think about it in terms of if I'm knocking on somebody's door and either one of two things happens, they don't answer the door, they never open it up, I'm going to move on to maybe the next door.

Right. Or they open it up, but they have a not welcoming look on their face that's not going to make me want to continue engaging in the quote, unquote chase.

So smiling, being conversational, it's okay to flirt a little bit. That's nothing wrong with that. You know, I do agree you're not going to be so easy and maybe not let me get into the house the first conversation, because you don't know me.

Right? But at least open the door and smile and look like you are inviting me to continue the conversation or the chase, quote, unquote.

Annie: I like that, Drew. Thank you. Derek, how about you?

Derrick: Sorry. I think that we. I mean, she could share because if she's interested and I am speaking to her about things that are important, you know, to me, that I see important in a relationship, I would like to know how she feels about.

About that.

And so I Like honesty. And I think that's the biggest thing for me in dating is that be honest, because I will know how to deal with that reality.

But if you're. If you're dishonest, then, you know, I mean, you. You know, wasting everyone's time, you know, I like that.

Annie: I appreciate those answers because I will tell you, from a women's. Women's perspective, a lot of times we think, okay, first of all, it's just a while physical attraction is something, you know, we think.

We women sometimes think that that's it. And so sometimes we overdo it because we want to grab their attention.

And so that's why it was interesting to hear what is it that exactly would.

And then. And then the game. The game, we think, because honestly, society has kind of put that into our mind. We need to play the game either play hard to get and then.

And then come on too strong.

Right. So I'm going to let. Divinia. I'm going to let you follow up with a question.

Davenia: All right. So a woman asks you, how do I look in this dress? And your response is, I'm going to start with Drew.

Andrew: Actually, I'm glad to answer this one because I literally just heard on a YouTube video a woman actually explaining this question as one of the things that women set themselves up for failure.

Basically, she was say and point. What she was saying is like, you're putting a guy in a no win situation. You know, that question kind of almost strikes a bit of fear within us when we're asked, you know, because there's no right answer.

You feel like you're going to be trapped into whatever. Right. So what she proposed that women should ask instead is lead us to what you want. Because what I find is that women already know what they want us to say, but they just want the validation.

Right? So she proposed.

Lead us to what you want them to say. So she says, say something like this, I bought this cute dress that I think makes me look so sexy. What do you think?

You know, and that's giving us the answer right there. And they say, yes, you look cute and sexy, you know.

Davenia: Yeah.

Andrew: So that's what I think about that question sometimes lead us to what you already have in your mind that you want us to say, you know, because other than that, we're gonna go with the default, you look beautiful, you know, so let us know.

Davenia: Anyone differ?

Damein: No, I like that. I like that. I'm a suggest that I like that.

Davenia: So nobody.

Damein: Otherwise. Otherwise, it's just great. Great, beautiful.

Kishore: I think one Thing, maybe it's the Indian guy in me, but I see also, like, it depends on your relationship with the person, right? And it depends on what your honesty level is, right?

So. And what's the intention of asking? If you're asking for the purpose, like, just to get a compliment, great.

If you're asking, like, from a serious perspective, like, the way that I see it, right? So with my mom and my dad, my dad was very.

Derrick: He.

Kishore: Like, he. He dressed up very well. And both my mom and my dad, they relied upon each other to bring out the best in each other, right? So there were. There were a few times where, you know, my mom, she would ask my dad with an honest opinion, and my dad would say, hey, you should change into something else, right?

And I think at the end of the day, you also have to look at what's the intention of it, right? So my dad wanted my mom to be the best, right?

And it's. It's nothing from a you're not beautiful perspective, but more so. I think it was more so that dress doesn't bring out your best features or that. Sorry, you know, doesn't.

Doesn't. You know, you're so much more beautiful than that. You know, let's bring out the best. And, you know, you want the world to see what you see in your life.

So I. I think there. There is value to honesty, but also there's value in words, too. So the way that you say things also matters, right? So maybe. Maybe I'm single.

So Pastor Damian and Derek, you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe rather than saying, you look horrible in that dress, you could say something like, hey, I like that blue dress better off.

Davenia: All right, I like that. I like that. So I think it. I think what I'm hearing, it really depends on what's our intent, what are we wanting? So if it's just validation, I love what you said, Drew, about we have to frame it in a way that elicits the validation that we want.

But if it's that we want your honest opinion, then I think that comes through time and relationship where then I know that your honest opinion is for my good and not to be hurtful.

Kishore: Or I think words really matter. So the way that you say something, that's what I learned. I think one of the biggest lessons I learned from my dad, words matter.

Davenia: But I don't think we make it easy for you all, because I was just thinking, well, what response would I want? And it really just depends on what day and what time of day and what I'm thinking or feeling at that specific moment.

So I think we make it really hard for you all in that regard.

Annie: Well, to speak of what women want, I think. Divinia, I think to sum it up, basically what the woman wants is to think that you think.

No, to know. The woman wants to know that the guy in our life always sees us as beautiful. Even when we don't feel beautiful. They can make us feel beautiful with their word.

So words. Yes, Kishore, Even when we're feeling horrible and a mess, whether we gained weight or whether we, you know, to love us no matter what. Because that's at least I hope that's the way we think of our men.

No matter what they look like, they're losing their hair, they're gaining weight, we still think they're the most gorgeous guy in the world to us. So, you know, what do you say to your woman to make her feel that way at any time in her life?

She may have the flu and she's like. And yet you still make her feel like she's beautiful.

So that brings me actually to a different question.

This is a tough one with relationships.

It's kind of a two part question. And Derek, I'm going to start with you in this one.

Do you think that people can be friends, just friends with the opposite sex? And when you get into a committed relationship, do you or should you give up those friendships with the opposite sex?

Derrick: I'm glad you asked. Absolutely not. I don't believe that you can. You should give up the relationships. And I think you can be friends with the opposite sex.

The, the way that I've approached this in my marriage is that I've said to my wife and I've said to all my girlfriends that I've known before I have met my wife, that I said to my wife, you need to be the best friends of these girls and you need to, because they're my friends.

And if they're good friends of mine, they have to be good friends of yours. And you know, Shani, understanding that, you know, I have known people before her, you know, would take on that relationship and said, okay.

And so from that time to this day, it's worked out fine. There's been no issues where Shane is being jealous of anyone that I dated before or any girlfriend that I've just had as a girlfriend.

And just to conclude, sorry.

I think it's important because when you are honest, when you are brutally honest with your partner, all right, then the trust level, you know, that you create in that relationship and that she has for you elevates to a place where you don't even doubt anything that comes from their mouth.

Annie: Interesting. Damien, what do you think about this?

Damein: So, yeah, this is a complex one.

Annie: Yeah.

Damein: Where I agree with Derek is, um, it. It definitely should not be an exclusive relationship that's, you know, going outside of the. Outside of your marriage that your wife cannot participate in, cannot be a part of, you know, that.

That definitely shouldn't be. Shouldn't be the case. I think your wife needs to be comfortable with the relationship. And if your wife is not comfortable, then that's something you're going to have to consider, you know, in your situation.

And if your friend wants to continue in the same way you've always been, hey, you know, it's just us. We just have our thing, you know, we're cool.

Derrick: We.

Damein: We do everything together that we normally done, then that. That's also a problem that's going to create rifts and. And ridges, you know, in your relationship with your. With your spouse.

So I think there's a lot that needs to be considered, you know, that your wife's feelings and comfort level needs to be considered your own. Especially if you're talking about someone you've been in a relationship before, being brutally honest with yourself and your emotions and the potential for where that could go.

You know, if you see any of that, then you may want to, especially if you've been intimately involved with that person, you may want to say, I don't even want it to even crack the door to, you know, the potential of going down, back down that road.

So I think there's. There's a lot to consider. There's a lot to think about.

Certainly it's three people you got to think about. And, you know, your wife, how comfortable is she with this, this kind of friendship? Is she able to participate, be a part of it?

As Derek said, yourself, being really honest with yourself, is this really.

Can you handle this? Is that. Is that something that you can really do? And then the other person, what are their intentions?

And if you see that their intentions are just to have you as their, you know, exclusive friend, as you've always been, well, that.

Annie: That can't work, you know, so, Divinia, woman to woman here. So how do we feel about this? Because our. We. We both are married and our husbands. And if they were friends with their other girls that they've dated, how would you feel about that?

Divinia?

Davenia: I agree with what's been said. I think it. If.

Annie: If.

Davenia: Because I do have some friendships where we've just melded into now. It's a. I'm a part of the friendship, right? But then there are some others who wanted the exclusive friendship.

And it was like, that can't happen. The union between the two takes precedent. Right? And so I think that that bubble and that circle should be so tight that there's not a lot of room for a lot of external.

Andrew: Yeah.

Davenia: Yes, we have friends and, but, but the, our, our little bubble takes pressing.

Annie: So I want to go into a little bit more of a lighthearted question. Perhaps what might be your ideal date night? How about you, Drew?

Andrew: Well, being a poet and artist, I'm a romantic at heart, so I enjoy the combination of romance and also activity. But for me, the ideal date I could imagine, especially living on the west coast here in California, like an evening sunset stroll on a boardwalk, you know, holding hands, you know, chilling, talking, eating ice cream, but then mixing it up a bit afterwards with something active like escape room or mini golf or I don't know, bowling or arcade or something.

But of utmost importance to me is again, I told you I like smiles. So anything that we are both laughing hysterically together, you know, and I vibe off of some.

A feeling that someone is also into it as much as I'm into it as well. I value that in the other person that they also have that desire to spend time with me, which is pretty big on my list of love.

Languages, quality time.

Annie: I love it. Now, Derek, six years of marriage. What is a date night like for you now?

Derrick: I think one of the most beautiful things about my marriage is that my wife and I are connected and have the same interest.

So, you know, we, we like music because I'm a musician, I say I am at York University studying a music degree currently. And we love food, so we, we, we just love food.

So we, we like to go. Well, my wife is more adventurous than I and we go and try different food, different restaurants and things like that and, and movies. And we, we love films.

We like to watch, you know, more films that are drama and reality based, the type of films that we like. So those are the three big things that, you know, we, we venture out to do.

We go to a concert or we go and eat at a really nice restaurant and. Or we, if we don't watch a movie in the theater, we watch it at home.

Annie: Awesome. All right, Mr. Married almost 30 years here. Do you still date and is. What do you think about that?

Damein: Although I'm more the laid back, Charmaine likes to Try activities. And I can be convinced to do activities.

For example, I am a terrible cook. I've been trying to learn how to cook for the last two, three decades, and I can't cook.

So one idea was, we went to this place that teaches you how to cook. You get together and you cook your meal, and that's your date night. You cook the meal.

So we did that. And, you know, at first I was like, okay, I don't know if I'll do.

But we had a good time, and the food tasted good. We took some home. So just anything where I feel like, you know, I can be relaxing. We could just have a nice time together.

And eating is normally a big part of that, as the other brothers said.

Annie: Awesome. And I think it's important, ladies, that, yes, we always. Some people think of dating is just, how do you get a man? And then once you're married, it's done. But to continue that.

That relationship and that time spent just the two of you, no matter how old your children are, if you have children, to spend time, time together. Now, Divinia, do you have a burning question to ask these gentlemen?

Davenia: Well, this question actually came to me from some young ladies. When a guy says he just wants to be friends, what does he really mean?

Andrew: I can jump in and say that in the context you're talking about. If that was me, if I was the guy and I said, I just want to be friends.

Derrick: That's.

Andrew: That's what I mean. I'm not trying to date you anymore, you know, but I'm trying to let you down gently. And it could be also, sometimes we say that and not so much that we still want to be friends.

We just don't want to hurt you.

So it's kind of a gentle approach to saying, hey, let's part company, but let's not be enemies either. So I think if a guy wants to be with you, he's going to move heaven and earth to do that and let you know it.

Typically speaking, I know a lot of.

Davenia: Women think that they can change a man, that I see these things now, but if I just give him time, he'll change his mind. Or if I just do more, he'll change.

He'll change how he feels, he'll change how he acts.

What would you say to women who they see the signs, but they think it'll be different?

Andrew: Me again. Awesome.

Davenia: Yeah, sure. Or anybody.

Andrew: Yeah, jump in just to that thought. You know, something I learned way back when, I think I heard a counselor or someone say this, and I really feel like it's really true.

Like people are on their best behavior when you're dating.

Like they want to show their best, their best face in the beginning. That's just normal human behavior. And if you're seeing someone in the dating feed, not even married yet, and you're seeing this type of attitude or behavior, why you're dating, that's their best.

And you have to think yourself, this is their best. Can I live with that? Right. Because that's our human nature, to show your best face in the beginning. So again, you can't change anyone.

Do people change? Of course they do. But they got to be self motivated to do it. And what the person you see initially, that's. You keep in mind, that's their best face, person, personality, not their final.

Derrick: You know, I'd agree with Drew. You know, a man will move heaven and earth to be with you if he really wants to be with you.

Annie: So, ladies, listeners, you can hear that we are speaking with four Christian men who are either looking for relationships with Christian women or are in relationships with Christian women right now.

And I'm curious because, you know, now in society and the world there, there are all these things about women being strong and independent and how we don't need a man and, you know, things like that.

And, and yet in the Bible it says, wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands as unto the Lord. So that made me think, like, what does it mean to you when you hear in the context of marriage, what does it mean for a woman to be.

Well, to submit themselves or to be submissive? Yeah, be submissive. Yeah. So I don't know, should we start with the pastor or should come to him last? Yeah, well, sure, I'm coming to you again because, you know, looking for that, are you like, hey, woman, you need to submit to me once we get married?

Kishore: I think our Internet connection is, is breaking up. I don't know.

That's a, That's a tough one.

You know, I really like. There's the book, there's a book called Patriarchs and Prophets.

It's, you know, beautiful commentary on the Bible, specifically the first five books of the Bible. And there's a chapter in there that talks about creation.

And there's something that. There's a very good point from them.

Where did God take Eve from in terms of, you know, from Adam's body?

Was it the head? No, was the foot? It was from his rib. The rib is from his side. Right. And so marriage, you know, marriage in the way that a husband is supposed to treat a woman, the man is to lord his position over her, nor is he should not trample her under her feet, nor is the woman to be the head of the man.

But man and woman are to stand side by side, fully loving each other, fully supporting each other.

Annie: Thank you, young man. Now, Damian, I'm thinking you've probably preached a sermon or two on topics similar to this. What can you. How would you answer this question?

Damein: I'll put it this way.

The husband should love his wife even as Christ loves the church. And that word love in the Greek is a form of submission.

And just look at how Christ loved the church. There is submission there.

So when people, you know, want to really emphasize this word submit, they're only looking at one word, but they're not looking at the whole picture.

The Bible is calling on husbands to have the kind of love that can submit as well to God and to their wives. It's a mutual respect. It's an egalitarian, shared leadership and relationship roles and so forth in the house.

Hey, if, if a woman is better at the financial management, you'd be an idiot to be trying to head the financial management. I mean, let her handle it and vice versa.

So I think you have to apply common sense and the word is not against common sense, you know, so, you know, I'll leave it there, see if there's others who have more of it.

But that's the way I look at it.

Annie: I like it. Drew or Derek, did you have anything to add to that?

Andrew: Yeah, sure. I agree with everything the pastor said and Kishore said as well. Just want to add to that as well with I believe that that submission word, in addition to being mutual, there's mutual submission also respect.

I think that's pretty huge for guys. But I also believe it's a letting go of a self centered mindset.

I don't think you can drag into a marriage that type of independence where you still say, I don't need a man for anything, that type of attitude, because then why are you with a man?

Right? So when both you, the male or the woman, drags that mindset into the marriage, I think they circumvent the process of becoming one. So I think submission is that letting go of I don't need anyone else to, we're better together.

And let me let go of that feeling like I don't want to become part of this process. And also in closing, it's interesting that Paul starts off saying submit one to each other and then he isolates submission for the Guy and then, sorry, submission for the woman and love for the guy.

It's almost like he was putting his finger on the most challenging aspect in each of the sexes. So for the guy, he says love, and then for the woman, he says submit.

And I think that's because it's so hard for those two specific areas in each of the sexes. And it's a challenge for us to let go of both of them and embrace what really is saying is love one another, you know, but it manifests itself in submission and also for the woman and manifests itself in love for the guy, because it could be hard for the male to love when he's not getting respect, and it's hard for the woman to respect when she's not feeling love.

And basically what he's saying, both need to get off the cycle and embrace the process of becoming one, which means you're not always going to have what you desire, but if you stay on the wheel, you'll never get anything different, if that makes any sense.

Annie: Yeah, it does. It does. Thank you, Drew. Derek, I think you wanted to say something.

Derrick: I just want you to add to what.

Damein: Sure.

Derrick: Damon and Drew just said and. And bring a couple more or maybe a Bible passage in there. And we. We understand when God had created Eve, Adam had said, now this is bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh.

I mean, I'm just paraphrasing, you know, and, you know, the two became one in that respect. And just to add to what Damien said, he mentioned that in context of that particular scripture, when you move on from wife, submit to your husband.

And, you know, as. As to the Lord, you know, he said, husband, love your wives like you love yourselves.

And like Christ loved the church. And just to add to that, and gave his life for it.

So, you know, so you cannot separate that. That's the text in context.

You know, he said, give your life. So he's called on the husband to give their lives for their wives if necessary, is how I've read that text. So, and. And so we're not comparing who has the greatest challenge here or responsibility, you know, to submit or to give your life, because it's all bridged together by love.

And as Drew said, you know, that the challenge for the man to love one woman because of the nature of a man as a hunter who goes out and sees women and is more physical, and the challenge of a woman to let go of some of that independence, you know, in terms of submission.

So it's. There's no hierarchy within this thing. God Understood that he was making an equal balance for men and women.

You know, so any man who wants to lord it over a woman and say, or submit to me, well, they're not working in the admonition and the principles of the Bible or the love of God.

Annie: I am loving these responses, and it's really giving, I think, our me and our listeners a good insight into what gentlemen are thinking.

As we gain more insight from these gentlemen, I wanted to ask you. I'm gonna. I'm going to come to Drew and then Kishore, if you both. Okay. We're g. Were the keynote address speakers at a big hall filled with Christian single women who are searching for, you know, they want a marriage, they want a relationship with a good Christian man.

Now, here's the challenge in about one minute. Okay? Could you sum up what would be some words of encouragement and hope?

Andrew: First of all, the good guy exists. So you gotta change your mindset. You know, they are out there, you know, and I'll be bold enough. I'm one of them, you know, so.

And also Kishore is one of them as well, too. So there are plenty of good guys out there.

So changing that mindset also, I don't believe, you know, you hear some, maybe more so in the conservative circles, they say, you know, the woman is going to be found, you know, and basically the idea is sit back and let the guy chase you.

But I'm not one that subscribes to that. I think in no other aspect of life do we just sit back and let things happen. When you want a job, you actually have to fill out an application and put your resume in, right?

You got to put yourself in a position to be found. So I think, first of all, making sure that you are approachable is one.

When you're in church settings or any social settings, smile, be approachable, engage. Learn how to converse even with people you're not attracted to, because that's great. Excellent ways to practice on attracting the right people and learning how to communicate and put yourself out there.

It's okay to try some of the dating apps. It's okay to do some meetups or speed dating events to put yourself in position to be found if you want to be found.

And last but not least, know that God made you for relationship.

He made us to be loved.

You are worthy of being loved. And let nothing, let not your circumstance make you think any differently because you are worthy to be loved.

Kishore: That's great.

I don't know what to say after going after the poet, but one thing I would like to add, I think prayer is a big part of that as well.

Don't give up on God. God has a plan for everyone's life. The Bible says for I know the plans that I have for you. Right.

And God has plans to bless us.

It also says all things work to good to them that love the Lord. So pray, you know, trust God. I know it's difficult as a single person, but I believe God has a plan.

And like Drew was mentioning, God isn't. God also expects us to take action when we can take action ourselves.

Annie: Beautiful. Drew and Kishore. Okay, listeners, all my single ladies out there, you heard them. And Divinia, you know Divinia's email address. If you want to meet Drew, Kishore, you can get in touch with us.

But I want to switch now to a convention filled with married women, Christian women who want to strengthen their marriage.

Gentlemen, Derek and then Damian, what would you say to this group of Christian married women if they want to know how do they keep their relationship spicy or make it better and stronger?

Kishore: So.

Derrick: All right, so I mean to always make your relationship better, and I'm speaking about, you know, Christian women, is that your relationship with Christ has to be solid. And I think that I, as a Christian man who loves Christ, I love to see my wife praying or reading the Bible or initiating conversations that relate to, you know, our relationship with Christ.

You know, to me that's, that's a turn on. That's exciting.

Annie: That's beautiful. Thank you, Derek. How about you, Damian?

Damein: Yeah, I'm gonna say definitely what Derek said. I think, you know, spiritual foundation is critical, indispensable and, but I'll also add, you know, communicate, really practice communicating with each other, listening to each other, which is a huge challenge for many people.

Listening, really trying to understand each other.

And I think Drew mentioned, you know, love languages before. Just really trying to communicate in, you know, your, your spouse's love language, recognizing it, understanding it, and putting energy and effort into fulfilling it.

I think that and, you know, mutually, I think that helps keep your love alive, you know, in a marriage, you know, long term marriage. So definitely be intentional about that.

Be intentional about the things that, you know, your spouse really values and appreciates and put effort into that. And I think you will see that reciprocated.

Annie: Thank you. Thank you.

Davenia: All right. Favorite love song? Favorite love song.

Damein: Oh, that's hard. It's a lot of them, man.

Let's just, you know, you could be talking about the words or you could just be talking about the melody. I mean, man, Somebody else go now. Let me take.

Davenia: Drew.

Andrew: I'm still thinking myself, too, but come on, Mr.

Annie: Poet.

Andrew: Always by Whitney Houston. Actually, Dolly partner wrote that.

Derrick: It's a.

Andrew: It's a good one. One in a million.

Annie: Wait, which songs like Dolly you're talking about? I will always love you.

Andrew: Yeah, she actually wrote that.

Annie: Yes, but that's not a good love song, Drew.

Andrew: Really?

Annie: You know why? You know what the words say? It's amazing in terms of the music, and it's Whitney and Dolly, but it says. Do you know what the words actually. Because I was singing it once.

The words actually say, if you should go, I'll still love you. So it's a goodbye song.

Andrew: Oh. Oh, you just blew my mind right now. Well, scratch that one, then.

Annie: I will always love you. Like, even if you leave me, I'm still gonna love you.

Damein: Well, you can like that. You can like the hook, man. You can like.

Derrick: Yeah, just stick on the hook.

Andrew: Yeah. Focus on the hook.

Annie: So I'll give you a chance to think of another one.

Andrew: Okay. Okay. Come back to me. Come back to me, Derek.

Davenia: You got one.

Derrick: Well, I'm gonna go with the one that played for my wife and I when we danced at our wedding. I mean, Damien officiated the wedding. I don't know if any of you know that, but I'll just reveal that right now.

And it was Always and Forever by Heatwave.

Damein: Yeah. Yeah.

Davenia: That's a classic.

Annie: Yeah.

Davenia: Sure.

Kishore: Yeah.

I'm a little thrown off by the question, but I love. I specifically, I love all, like.

I'm not going to say old music, but I like music from, you know, generations. I love Motown.

One of my favorite songs, My Girl by the Temptations.

Annie: Okay, Drew, did you figure it out?

Andrew: Kishore stole mine. Oh, my goodness. But I'll stick with One in a million.

Davenia: One in a million.

Andrew: Yeah.

Annie: All right, all right. Okay, so.

Davenia: Come on.

Damein: It's too many, man. It's Donald Land, you got Eric, Anybody by Smokey Robbins. I mean, I don't like his singing, but Key Sweat, make it last forever.

That's a classic for sure.

Davenia: That's a good one.

Damein: Yeah.

It'll hit me. Maybe before we. Before we close, but. Yeah, that's a classic. I mean, Heat Wave. I mean, what can you.

I mean, he. Derek ruined it with that. I mean, there's nothing else you could do. I mean, who are you going?

Derrick: Who you go?

Damein: How you gonna come after that? Elder bars?

Davenia: Yes.

Damein: Oh, my gosh, man. It's.

Annie: Come on.

Davenia: What about Prince Adore?

Annie: What about when Obama serenaded Michelle.

Damein: Oh, Al Green. Come on.

Annie: Yes. Mo. Yes.

Damein: But I'm gonna go with Prince Adore. Prince Adore.

Davenia: Yes.

Derrick: What about Damon? What about Marvin Gaye and Tammy? Terrell? You're all I need to get by. If you know the words of fat, they are, you know.

Damein: Marvin Gaye. I mean, Marvin Gay. All I need to get by.

Annie: You know, what about when God made you? He must have been thinking about me.

Damein: Okay, okay.

Kishore: That's a good one.

Damein: Okay. A local guy. Terry.

Davenia: Oh, yeah.

Damein: I'm with you when I'm with you.

Kishore: Yeah.

Davenia: When I'm with you.

Annie: Yes. I heard him sing it live at my friend's wedding.

Damein: Yeah.

Annie: Yeah. Old school one. Yeah. Hey, so good.

Davenia: What about Baby Face?

Annie: We need to do a podcast on just songs.

Davenia: Yeah. Yes, I think so.

Annie: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Gentlemen, we could go on with this pod. Divinia. Maybe we need to have men on more often. It's kind of interesting to see what they think and, you know, and the fact that we can answer these questions and, and not be inhibited because, you know, when I was young and single, I was nervous to ask.

It's interesting because you guys are saying you want women to be truthful and upfront. And then I was just so scared. I was scared of the, of the rejection, honestly.

And it's been eye opening.

It has been such a pleasure for Divinia and I to interview the first gentleman on our podcast and hopefully not the last. I don't know, it just opened up a whole new avenue for us to go into Divinia.

But this topic has been all about what men want, what Christian men are looking for in their. Either as they are trying to find a wife or what they want their wife to be like.

And we've heard many wonderful things that are all based on, are based on the scripture. And so women, there is hope. There are wonderful men. As Drew started, I think at the beginning, he said, hey, they're good guys out there.

There are good guys out there, both that are single and that are married. So women, as they have said, if we smile, if we're approachable, if we're honest, if we communicate, and above all, if we have a personal strong relationship with Christ, the sky's the limit.

And God wants to prosper us and not to harm us. He has our best interests in heart. And if we build our relationship with Christ and strengthen our own relationship with him, then it can lead us to that godly man that has chose God has chosen for you.

Or it can also strengthen that current relationship that you're with. So let's remember this, ladies and from our hearts to yours, this song's for you.