S4E6: Faithful, Feminine and Free: A Conversation with Kimberly Bulgin on Owning Your Womanhood Before God

In this powerful, liberating, and sometimes blush-worthy conversation, Kimberly Bulgin joins us to talk about what it means to be hot, holy, and whole. As a woman who embraces her femininity, owns her sexuality, and walks boldly in her faith, Kimberly challenges the belief that holiness requires hiding parts of who we are. Together, we unpack how to be comfortable in our bodies, confident in our beauty, and fully accepted by God—without guilt and shame. If you’ve ever struggled to reconcile your womanhood with your worship, this episode is your permission slip to live naked and unashamed, just as God designed.

And if after listening to this episode, you feel you need more of Pastor Kim, please checkout the following:

• Subscribe to her Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@KimberlyBulgin
• Join her WhatsApp Sisterhood Chat, a safe, Spirit-filled space where she sends out weekly devotionals and leads a live Wednesday morning prayer. Tap here to join the chat: https://chat.whatsapp.com/JNirz7FcwkSHTUdEpHhvep
• Purchase her book, The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems! And because you're special and we're so appreciative that you took the time to listen to this episode, you can take advantage of the "Didn't Ask to be a Hero" discount. Use the Code HERO for a 15% discount off physical copies of book: The Sisters Stay Dropping Gems: https://www.kimberlybulgin.com/product-page/the-sisters-stay-dropping-gems
• Finally, check out Pastor Kim's ministry, House of Women and if you love it and can't get enough, use the Code HOUSEHERO for $5 off the House of Women membership fee: https://www.kimberlybulgin.com/houseofwomen

And as always, Annie and I would love to hear from you. How have you struggled to reconcile your sacredness and your sensuality? What, from this episode, do you resonate with or continue to grapple with? Please share your story with us on IG @davenialeawrites, or on FB @annieraney.

Finally, your reviews mean the world to us, and they also assist us in spreading God's message of hope and victory across the globe! So please leave us a review on your favorite podcast player or on our Podcast Webpage 

🔗 Again, don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review to keep the conversation going!

Today's episode song is Daughter of the King by Jamie Grace featuring Morgan Harper Nichols. Please note this song is for your listening enjoyment only and cannot be downloaded or shared.

Thanks for listening! From our hearts to yours!!

Transcript

Annie: Welcome to the Didn't Ask to Be a Hero podcast.

I'm your host, Annie Raney. In each episode, we will get an opportunity to see how ordinary women are now living amazing, abundant, and extraordinary lives with God's help.

May their stories serve to encourage and inspire you. Let's get started.

Hello, listeners, and welcome to today's episode. I am truly, truly excited, and I know Davenia is, too,

because of the guest that we have today. And the topic really interests me, and we're going to see what direction this conversation takes us in. You know, I didn't tell this to Divinia, but just learning a little bit about our guest.

She kind of reminds me of Divinia. Her.

But yeah. So we're going to find out, listeners, if you agree with me, if she does remind you at all with her interest and what she stands for as we talk to our special guest today.

So, Divinia, I'm actually going to throw it to you to introduce our guest.

Davenia: Hi. It is my absolute pleasure to introduce our guest today.

I became acquainted with her because I came across this amazing book called the Sisters Stay Dropping Gems.

And I was so intrigued as Annie shared.

All of this is in alignment with my passion. And so I got the book, and then I began following our guest today and became like this secret stalker fan.

And so I said, let me reach out and see if she'll join us. And so today it is my pleasure to introduce you all to Kimberly.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Kimberly: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

You know, social media has been such a blessing because you're able to meet people that align with your values and your passions in ways that you would not typically be able to.

So I'm so glad that our paths connected virtually so that we could do this.

Amen.

Davenia: Amen.

Well, why don't you start by just telling us a bit about yourself?

Where you grew up, where you went to school, what your interests were, what were you like as a child and what led you here to where you are today?

Kimberly: Yeah,

I'm. So.

My parents are Jamaican,

so I have the Jamaican blood in my brain.

Yeah, man. So that's my definitely Jamaican heritage, but I was raised in Canada, Toronto.

So there's. So there's a mixture of the Canada with Jamaica.

The eldest of three,

and I'm a pastor's daughter.

Davenia: I'm sure we have that in common. Too.

Kimberly: Yeah, yeah.

Davenia: And I'm the eldest of three also.

Annie: Look at that.

Kimberly: So there that. That informs A lot of what I do today,

I think kind of is the backdrop for why I'm in the ministry that I am today.

I think that that definitely informed a lot of my childhood. My, you know, teenage years were,

were for the most part awesome. But there were also some hiccups along the way with, you know, just traditional teachings and that way of thinking that kind of led me to experience some unfortunate things.

However, the blessing is, is that because of that, I now have a ministry that helps women that have been through similar situations. We're dealing with like church trauma, church hurt, purity, culture,

toxic teachings. It's been a blessing to be able to finally create a space where we can unlearn a lot of those things that many Christian women have experienced growing up, like having.

That has a similar story to what I have.

The name of the ministry that I currently have is called the House of Woman.

And that's the container that I use to help inspire and activate women to love God and love their bodies and love themselves without compromising their faith or second guessing themselves.

And it's just been a blessing to see how it's just grown and blossomed. And with the book as well being an added resource, which we'll probably talk about a little later, but it's been a blessing to see how everything has just evolved.

Wow.

Davenia: So if you don't mind sharing some. That personal journey that led you here. You mentioned some phrases church heard and,

and church trauma and overcoming some of the. That I guess, false ideology.

So. So what was that like for you?

Kimberly: Yeah, I would say maybe the first time I felt shame,

that heat of shame that you feel in your bodies when you feel like you've done something wrong was probably when I was a young girl and I was basically made to feel ashamed just for being curious about my own body, you know, as girls, and boys too for that matter.

You're young and you're exploring, you're trying to understand your body and all how things work. But I was met with reprimands and rebukes and sternness because of that. And in that moment, I internalized,

you know, this devastating lie that says something is wrong with me for wanting to understand my body, wanting to understand how God made me and those things.

So that shame pill, I like to call it stayed with me. I basically swallowed that pill and it taught me to distrust my natural inclinations. It taught me to not feel comfortable in my body.

It taught me to just have a lot of self esteem issues,

you know, that the very essence of me was a problem.

And Then you, you know, you jump into puberty and now you're getting all shapely and looking like a, a, a girl, you know what I'm saying? And because it didn't necessarily always fit the, the, the narrow prescribed idea of what a church girl needs to look like,

havoc. And then you add on top of that purity culture. When I'm talking about purity culture, purity culture is basically this, this mindset, this belief that if you do the right things and act a certain way and keep your body pure and you know, be modest and all these things,

then certain things will happen. You'll find a spouse, you'll have a good husband, you'll be treated right, you know, all these things, it's being remain pure and good things will happen to you.

And though well intentioned,

it was a cage for um, it, it took a lot of unlearning over the years, thanks be to God, to be in a much better place.

Annie: Wait, interestingly enough, Kim, you said we are in a different place now.

Davenia: Are we?

Annie: You mentioned for example,

there's this kind of double take that men are wanting women to be virgins when they get married.

But that same demand is not there for a woman to expect the man to be a virgin. And that's okay is what is still happening I think today.

So what would you say to young women who are feeling that now in 2025,

where they feel like it's okay for a man to go out there and forgive the phrase, but so is wild oats. And I'm not telling women to go do that at all.

But what I mean is if a guy does it, it's like, oh yeah man, you're a dude, you're a man.

But if a woman does it, oh, shame on you.

Kimberly: I, I think as the church has become a place of performing right and not being a place where you can just be, you know, who you are, flaws and all.

And that then leads to this idea where the men being able to do well, seemingly being able to do whatever they want to do and women having and show up a certain way and be a certain way.

And so when the rules are pliable for men,

then yeah, the women are left to these arbitrary rules and standards that are always shifting and changing and it's like these invisible walls that tell women to do this and not to do that and it's stressful.

Did you ask why does that happen specifically?

Annie: Well, just what your thoughts on how should young women, how should they cope with it today?

Kimberly: Like, I think you just, you have to make a Decision not to abide by those.

Those standards. I think it's for me, what I. Why, what I had to do personally is I had to unlearn that way of thinking and give myself permission to think differently about what it means to be a woman of God and not what the world says or what patriarchy says or what the church says or what even what culture says.

I can. I can come in a. Come to church and spiritual spaces from. From an empowered space,

from a place of knowing my identity in Christ and then allowing that to guide my decisions. And so when. When women are faced with these double standards and these.

It's. I think, yeah, it's you. You name the double standard, and then you say, I don't. I choose not to be a part of that.

You know, calling it out and not. And not ignoring it. I think naming it is very important in changing the situation and changing the environment. If we don't call it out, if we don't make it known that this is a problem,

it's always gonna remain the same. And calling it out, when I see it, making. Making it uncomfortable for it to exist, you know, when we don't call it out, it feels comfortable.

But when you. It's almost like, you know, when you.

Davenia: When.

Kimberly: When you turn the lights on and the roaches scatter. Turn the lights on. On the foolishness and cause it to scatter and feel uncomfortable.

Davenia: Yeah.

I love what you said about being secure in your identity and Christ.

I think for me,

it starts there because then if I understand who I am in Christ, what the Bible says about who I am, my design,

my purpose, then I have something to measure everything else against.

And so.

And then it makes it a little easier to reject what is false.

Kimberly: Right?

Davenia: Yeah.

Kimberly: Because you're approaching what's being said from a place of truth,

what I know to be true. It's like. It's almost like, you know, you have a real dollar bill and you have a counterfeit dollar bill, and the more you familiar, familiarize yourself with the real one, you're able to call out the counterfeit one.

And it's a lot easier to spot a counterfeit when you know what the real one is and what the real truth is. So I agree full, wholeheartedly that as women, I think it's really important to immerse ourselves in what's true about who women are in Christ.

What does it mean? What does that look like? And really.

And not only getting clear, but getting it, like,

imprinted in our DNA that this is who I. Who I am now so that when the lies come and the toxic beliefs come, you're able to catch it and call it out and reject it because it's counterfeit.

Annie: So, Kim, I want to address something that some of our listeners may be wondering what your take is on this because sometimes in, let's say modern day, now we're in, you know, 20, 25 versus the 60s, 70s, 80s or something,

okay.

Where we're saying women should stand up and not let themselves feel ashamed. Okay. So now I want to transition into how then do you talk to women about,

let's say, for example, their sexuality? In other words, are we saying that we go from a place of okay, abstain and be a virgin until you get married to a place where,

hey, women don't be ashamed you do you as long as you don't let it shame you. What are we telling young ladies then about how do you love Christ, love yourself,

embrace your sexuality and your body?

You know what I mean? Do you see what I'm asking?

Kimberly: Yeah, I absolutely see what you're asking. Essentially,

are we raising a generation of women that have no boundaries, no morals of any kind? And no, we're, I don't think we're saying, you know, do whatever you want and God, God is going to co sign because liberation,

freedom is not the same as indulgence.

Just the Bible talks about everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.

Right.

And so I'm speaking specifically now to women who are believers. Those that who don't profess to follow Christ may follow by, may abide by a different set of values.

But as women of God, freedom is not the same as recklessness and healing is not the same as just doing whatever I want. I think it's more so stepping into a space where because my sexuality is sacred,

because my sexuality is given by God,

I am now going to be a steward of it. I'm not gonna repress it, I'm not gonna oppress it, I'm not gonna ignore it. But I am gonna manage that tens possibly as a woman of God,

by the grace of God,

because I'm not perfect,

I'm going to enable the fruit of the spirit,

which is self control.

In my decision making.

I'm going to align with my values, which is I love God, I love myself, I love my body, and I love others. That's Bible, you know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

So we're not tossing out holiness and we're not preaching confusion in the name of confidence.

I think what we're doing now more is reframing the message so that it no longer sounds like you're dirty until a man says you're not.

That's the shift where we're de centering what society and culture and men historically has said about women.

And instead we're saying you were made good,

period.

God has already declared that you are good and that you are holy and righteous, especially if you're saved,

that you were. That you are fearfully and wonderfully made. That's the starting point, right?

And then on top of that, because your body is good, God, God designed your body to experience good things. That's why we have so many nerve endings all over our, you know, all over our body.

Like it's meant to experience good things.

Power, pleasure, all of that within the guidelines of the fruit of the Spirit. And if you, if you are truly being led of the Spirit, the Spirit is not going to lead you into activities that go against the heart of God.

I think women who are, who profess to follow God should be one of the, some of the most joy filled,

pleasurable,

happiest women there are because they've tapped into the joy of the Lord which is expressed and experienced through our bodies.

You know, and what that looks like is gonna be different for everybody else. It's not gonna be the same for everybody. But the Spirit will bring conviction on what that looks like.

So I think that's what we're, we're telling women. We're saying that your, your body is not a curse. You know, your body's not a problem.

Your body is beautiful. Your body is meant to be here on this earth. Your body is a calling.

Your body is here to glorify God.

Your body's here to experience good things.

That's what we're shifting the narrative and shifting the focus.

And when we're talking about making decisions like coming up with your own sex ethic, what I teach is not so much rules,

but wisdom and discernment.

And what, what's true again, going back to your identity, what is true about your identity in Christ when you know who you are,

that informs your values and your decisions about sexual.

And coming more from that angle as opposed to don't do this, don't do that, and if you do this,

you're dirty and you won't be loved. And you're not making all these things, we're moving away from that and saying,

yes,

make wise decisions, but make wise decisions because it's rooted in who God says you are,

as opposed to what men Think you should be.

Davenia: Yeah.

That's so powerful.

And I like how you said it's really reclaiming God's story for us,

reframing the narrative so it's one that speaks to our value and our worth and our beauty and all the things that God says about us.

You know,

when you look at the creation story, right.

God created the heavens and the earth and the birds and the bees and the trees in six days. Right?

Right. And then he made man.

And then we were like the crowning glory of all of creation. Like, creation wasn't complete until we were made. And. And so we weren't created by accident. We weren't a second thought.

It wasn't happenstance. We were a part of God's plans. And.

And I think the more that we reclaim that narrative about who God says we are and, and walk bold.

Yeah. We'll experience that freedom you spoke of.

Kimberly: Yeah. And I think. I think when we. When we start teaching from a place of who we are in Christ, we don't. We don't need to use shame and fear and condemnation to teach abstinence and to teach healthy sexuality.

A lot of what has been taught in the church has been rooted in shame and guilt and just like really gross,

heavy,

unhealthy teachings that make people feel really bad.

I'm saying what I'm passionate about is teaching healthy sexuality from a place of freedom. Yes. Freedom in Christ to make wise decisions.

Grace, compassion, love,

mercy. Righteousness. Righteousness. Yeah. Is a part of it. Like, right. Living.

That's rooted in the righteousness of God. These are the things that can inform our decisions. You don't have to terrorize somebody into keeping their legs closed.

That's what we. That's what you're. Don't. Don't open your legs. You gonna get pregnant.

Like.

Davenia: And it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Kimberly: It does not work. But if you give them more. More tools to be wise in their decisions, you'll. You'll have a healthier outcome. In my house of women, I don't really tell women what to do and what not to do.

First of all, they're grown. They gonna do what they wanna do anyway,

so. And they don't need another voice telling them how to police their bodies.

What they do need is they need room for the Holy Spirit to speak and to be led by the Spirit and to trust the Holy Spirit convicting them and guiding them in their decisions.

And I think that's more so what needs to be taught these days. And so I think that. That's more so what it's about. It's not about.

We're not preaching hedonism.

We're preaching the beautiful privilege that we have to make wise decisions.

And the beautiful thing is that for Christians, we have the Holy Spirit to lead us and to guide us.

Davenia: Yeah. I was thinking when you were saying how you don't need that other voice that's condemning you. There are enough of those voices out there.

But, yeah, when you're walking,

when. When you are so confident in who you are in Christ,

then you and the Holy Spirit's working in you, then. Yes. You begin to change the way you think. So you begin to look at yourself as, I am actually more valuable than a ruby.

I. And I am choosing not to give myself to you until X, Y and Z happens or until I find the right one. And you can also walk comfortably in that grace of and mercy of.

If I do fall or stumble or find myself in a situation that I don't know I shouldn't be in,

there's forgiveness and restoration. And you don't have to continue walking in that place of shame.

Kimberly: Yes. Because I think within Christianity,

purity culture placed a very high value on virginity and perfection.

It's the grace of God that needs to be celebrated. It's the favor of God that needs to be elevated,

not these arbitrary rules that society has come up with.

I think. And the other thing I want to say, also,

because I think Annie had mentioned, like,

we're not. We're not teaching carelessness.

We're saying that it, like, you can be curious without being careless.

I think that's what I needed to hear as a child,

that my curiosity was not a bad thing.

I think it's a human thing. It's human to be curious and guiding that curiosity in a way that still does not bring about shame or condemnation,

but that honors the humanity of those that are in our midst and doesn't make them feel bad for having questions. There's like this. And purity culture also pulls this idea that you shouldn't know anything about your body,

that here it is, the man needs to uncover what turns you on and what makes you feel good. All these things. And that God does not want us to be ignorant.

God does that. That's not.

That's not rooted in Scripture. So having questions, having desires,

all of those things, those are human stuff. And I think it comes again to discernment. And that's where the spirit of God comes in again,

so that we're not repressing our sexuality or acting like it doesn't exist.

But we're bringing those questions to God. We're bringing those desires to God and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and guide.

Annie: You know, Kim,

my dilemma has always been, or my thought, I've had this passion in me. I just don't know what to do about it. But I feel like at a young age.

So if women reach puberty, right, they have their body changing physically, you know, they start their menstrual period, which means,

yeah, they can actually have babies, yet nobody talks to them about it.

And then it's, it's shame.

And I feel like there are no kind of conversations that are held with girls that in,

honestly, in, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, these girls are not learning it from their Christian leaders.

They're learning about their bodies through other boys,

through,

honestly, through television shows and movies.

They're learning, well, my body can do that. Ooh, that girl looks happy. If I do that, will I be happy too?

Instead of being taught,

you mentioned to embrace their beautiful changes physically in their body, that it's something that God did and that pleasure can come from it and to trust God as to when that pleasure is going to be the right time.

So how do we change our generation to help this young generation embrace it through God's eyes?

Kimberly: Yeah, that's a great question. I think there would have to be a conscious unlearning from what they were taught because a lot of it is just regurgitated.

What they grew on, grew up on. You know, I don't, I don't even know if they mean to be shameful or even recognize like how some of what they were taught was problematic even for them.

So there has to probably be a liberation and a freedom for them personally, like you. You have to know what you think and believe about horniness before you can teach a 13 year old about what horniness is and what to do about it.

If you, if you feel shame about it as a, as a grown woman,

they go, you're gonna teach, you're gonna pass that on to them as well. So you would have to, they would have to first unlearn the shame that they carry about their own sexuality and how their bodies work and that you.

Davenia: Can even say the word.

Annie: Exactly.

Kimberly: They might, they probably would. Exactly, exactly. They probably wouldn't even be saying like.

Davenia: Choking and blushing and just, you know, getting it out.

Kimberly: Yeah, right. So I think that's part of it. There has to, they have to go through their own process if they so desire to.

I think something creative we have baby dedications,

we have baptisms.

Maybe we start having like celebrations around periods and first things that women go through in a spiritual environment with your church mothers and your church aunties.

Maybe that needs to be happening in women's ministries where we are celebrating all the girls and honoring them and celebrating them and teaching them in ministry spaces what that now means as women of God, how to manage hormones and ovulating and what it.

It's not a bad thing if you start feeling hot and horny and all these things, because this is what's happening in your body. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

It's something to manage.

You know, this is what's going to happen when you're ovulating now. All the boys all of a sudden look cute and,

you know, cuddly.

But what could be happening is X, Y, Z,

you know, giving them that kind of teaching and you can maybe bring in experts and from a clinical standpoint as well. But the spiritual,

it could be as something as like praying over them and giving them the spiritual tools to manage their, their sexuality that's blossoming. And, you know, something as simple as that I think would be really powerful.

But again,

the older woman would have to unlearn what they were taught about periods and the negativity that surrounded coming into your own and getting full figured. There was a lot of,

I don't even think it was on purpose, but there was a lot of messaging that came up around 14 year old, 13 year old, 12 year olds that were shapely, you know, and like, ooh, she's gonna be a problem.

You go,

you go. You're gonna be a. You know, the boys are gonna come after you.

Like that alone makes me like,

want to go. Like this.

Davenia: Experience that if I had had these real conversations, I think my life would have been different. But I just remember when I got my period,

I thought I was dying because I didn't know that it was what was happening. Mom comes home, the conversation was,

oh, you're a woman now. This is going to happen every month.

Don't let the boys touch you, or you could get pregnant. And so then I quit playing flag football because I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be touched. And I'm going to.

And so it was really traumatic.

Kimberly: That's real.

That's a very common statement.

And you know, Titus 2 talks about the older teaching the younger.

But you can't teach what you've never healed from,

right?

So. So we have to, I think, create healing spaces for the older woman for women that.

That married without any sexual empowerment for themselves.

So even in their own marriages,

they're struggling with their autonomy and their agency and their own bodies, with their husbands being told that sex is for men and not for their own joy, not for their own pleasure.

Like, that's very common. And so if you're raised on that and you haven't divorced yourself from that way of thinking or, like, what you said, Davina, like,

what you were taught about,

you know, you have to,

like, literally do your. To do the work, to unlearn all of that baggage that came with those. Those kinds of teachings.

Annie: So, Kim, I wanted to ask you if anything that we've discussed today is that. Does that come up in any way in your book? Yes. So, Kim, what is. What is the focus in that book?

The sisters Stay Dropping gems. What is that? What's this about?

Kimberly: I.

So in the house of Women, I have.

I used to have, like, Bible studies on. In. In the House of Woman. I've since expanded it to my YouTube page,

but I was doing a lot of Bible studies on women in the Bible from a liberated space, kind of giving the woman permission to speak.

And the book is basically a culmination of the majority of those Bible studies where I'm showing women that your faith and your femininity are best friends. They're not enemies.

It's a book that challenges those traditional teachings that have kept women small and repressed and, you know, in this, like, not healthy space and giving them fresh insight into what it means to be whole and liberated.

And so it's basically just like 21 women in the Bible having a slumber party, talking about life, love, and relationships and what they teach us, basically from their experience in the Bible.

Davenia: So.

Kimberly: And it helps women, I think, reclaim,

like Davina said earlier, reclaim their story, reclaim their bodies, reclaim their love for God in a way that doesn't leave their bodies behind in a way that does not bring shame into the picture or guilt or condemnation.

But it's all about the liberating freedom that we have in Christ to experience Christ through our bodies,

and that includes our sexual decisions. And so,

yeah, all of what I've gone through and what I've been learning over these years is basically compiled into 520 pages of studying these women and bringing my testimony, as well as the testimony of the women in the Bible,

to bring about healing and to bring about liberation, particularly when it comes to our bodies, love, relationships.

And I wrote this book honestly because I couldn't find anything like it I hadn't seen a book where Eve and Sarah and Hagar and Rebecca and the woman at the well are teaching me about relationships.

Like, what does. If Eve had a chance to tell, give me advice about marriage and love, what would she have to say versus what Hannah would have to say? And so that I created something that I.

That I wanted. I wanted that kind of resource because I think the women do have something to say.

Davenia: So of those 21 women, is there one that resonates with you?

Kimberly: I think Queen Vashti,

probably in this season that I'm in right now,

her willingness to say no and to hold her own boundaries,

and she was willing to assert her dignity and stand up for herself, advocate for herself.

I think I relate to her a lot because sometimes standing up for yourself and saying no comes with loss.

It comes with significant loss,

but it's still worth it.

And there could be griefs, like, she lost her crown, you know,

because she said no.

And when you stand up for what's best for your mental health or your emotional health, what you have to walk away from and honoring the grief that comes with that.

And I think if we talk about that more or humanize that, I think women would feel more seen and heard and be more empowered to say no, because at least they'll find people that are willing to see them and understand why it's so difficult to say no, even though it comes with loss.

And I. And also giving them permission to grieve.

So, yeah, she's one of my favorites right now.

Davenia: And you can relate because of the season you're in. And so I don't know if we shared this at the beginning, but you're also. You're an ordained pastor.

Yeah.

And so with that comes a responsibility and certain expectations.

So how has that impacted or.

And maybe it hasn't been a challenge at all, but has your messaging and sort of paving this new path,

have they ever come into conflict?

Kimberly: There was a lot of tension with that because,

you know, the Bible talks about putting new wine in old wineskins and how that's. When you do that,

the wineskins, like, burst because it can't handle it. There was,

yeah,

because it's controversial.

It pokes at longstanding traditions and mindsets that are kind of baked into the DNA of the church. And so when you are opposed or poke at it or expose the problems with, you know,

how the church has historically taught on sex and sexuality, patriarchy and all that stuff. Yeah, there was. There was. There was controversy. There was tension,

and it was. It was Becoming difficult to manage that tension in a healthy way for myself.

I think over time,

it affected my mental health, emotional health, physical health, even.

And so decisions had to be made. I had to start saying no to certain things so that I can say yes to what God was calling me to do and just kind of release myself from that tension.

I think there are some people who are graced to make changes within the system, and then there's those that are graced to make changes outside the system in the hopes that the system will catch up.

And I think the season I'm in now, yes, I'm ordained,

and I was blessed to do the work, as much work as I could within the system.

But I think now I'm in a season where God is calling me to step outside the walls and bring about change that way.

It still has its challenges because you're still fighting a principality that is just in the world. It's like, pervasive, no matter what.

So, yeah, I think being a restorative voice,

not a rebel,

but a voice of restoration, a voice of reclamation, I got labeled as a rebel, a problem,

you know, that wears on you, wears on your mental health, that wears on your identity in Christ.

And so at some point, you have to finally ask yourself, why am I putting myself in a position to make it harder, you know,

to do the work that God has called me to do?

I want to just show the world, and especially women,

that you can love Jesus and talk about your sexuality. You can be faithful and feminine,

you can be holy and have moments of horniness, and it's not going to be the end of the world.

And I feel like. I just. I think at this season,

yeah,

it did become.

It became too much for some.

And I just decided that it's.

I think God is calling me out of it so that I can make more of a difference. So, yeah. And so I'm excited that, you know, these conversations are happening and that women are getting the book and being able to tap into that as well through the.

What I've amplified in my book. So I'm hoping that all the people that are listening today will definitely grab a copy so that they can get stretched and challenged and set free.

Yes.

Davenia: And you'll be able to go to the link in the description.

So listen,

look out for that and make sure you get the book and then not. Don't just get it, get it, read it, and then let's have some discussion about it so that we can further this message.

Kimberly: Yeah. And maybe I'll toss in a Coupon code for your listeners as well.

We'll probably put a little Sweeten the deal for those that listen to the end and catch that.

Davenia: That's right. That's right. That would be awesome. Okay, so I mentioned you are a pastor, but you're also a singer, Is that correct?

Kimberly: Yeah, I love music is my first love.

I was playing the piano since I was four,

classically trained.

I've been singing for as long as I can remember.

That will always be my safe place. That will always be my default.

That's where I hear from God the best.

I feel like God speaks to me through music. That will just always be my.

Yeah, my. My way of. Of connecting with the world is definitely through song.

Davenia: Well, we typically ask our guests, is there a particular song that resonates with.

That resonates with you at this particular moment or their song that would serve as sort of the soundtrack of your life?

And if you would like, you could sing it for us if there's a.

Kimberly: Song song that comes to mind.

I was listening to the hymn to Still Seek to Trust in Jesus.

Hymns are a favorite of mine,

so I've been singing that and that goes. Jesus, Jesus How I trust him How I've proved him more and more Jesus,

Jesus,

precious Jesus O for grace to trust him more.

Yes, I've been singing that a lot.

Annie: Amen, Kim. That's one of my favorite hymns.

Kimberly: So you weren't supposed to make me.

Annie: Cry before I do my.

Kimberly: And the way you sang it, though.

Annie: I wish I could just sing it. I did. I was lip syncing, but I want to thank you so much, Kim, for being our guest today. We could keep going and talking.

This topic is so interesting and the way you speak about it is not only interesting, it's also encouraging.

And the message I feel that we can gather from today's conversation.

God has made every woman beautiful and sacred.

And women know that God made us to glorify him through our words and our actions. And we are made to enjoy physical and emotional activities. So don't let any man, woman or child ever tell you anything different.

If you embrace God and let him live in your heart,

you can reframe your narrative so that you focus on the fact that you are fearfully and wonderfully made the way you are on purpose for his purpose.

And so, listeners, from our heart to yours,

this song's for you.