Educational Leadership with Principal JL
Principal JL is an educational leader who explores various topics facing educational leaders today! The Mission of this podcast is to inform and inspire other Educational Leaders on how to be their best for their Schools by honing their skills and talents so they may impact their teachers, staff members, students, parents/guardians, and community members positively for their School District! Come with a Growth Mindset as we journey through Educational Leadership!
Educational Leadership with Principal JL
Episode 39: Out of the Trenches: Dr. Dana Goodier's Leadership Journey!
What happens when a Norwegian tour guide discovers her passion for educational leadership? In this revealing conversation, Dr. Dana Goodier shares her remarkable 25-year journey through the educational landscape, from teaching world languages to navigating the complex terrain of school administration.
Dr. Goodier's story isn't one of overnight success but rather persistent determination. Despite completing her principal licensure program in 2011, she waited seven years before landing her first administrative position as a dean. This candid admission offers both comfort and inspiration to aspiring leaders facing similar obstacles. Throughout our discussion, she reveals how department chair roles, committee work, and instructional leadership provided crucial stepping stones toward her administrative goals.
The conversation takes a compelling turn when Dr. Goodier explains the origin of her "Out of the Trenches" podcast and subsequent book. Born from her own challenging experiences, these platforms amplify stories of educator resilience and provide practical strategies for overcoming professional obstacles. Her work reminds us that difficulties in education aren't signs of personal failure but common experiences that can catalyze profound growth.
For current administrators navigating difficult seasons, Dr. Goodier offers wisdom that transcends trendy leadership jargon: reconnect with your fundamental purpose, assess whether your current position aligns with your goals, seek community through professional networks, and prioritize self-care. These practices sustain educational leaders through challenging periods and prevent burnout.
Whether you're an aspiring administrator, a veteran principal facing challenges, or simply interested in educational leadership, this episode delivers practical insights alongside an inspiring narrative of resilience. Subscribe now to hear more conversations with educational leaders who are making a difference despite the obstacles they face.
Visit Dr. Dana Goodier's Website:
Visit Dr. Dana Goodier's Speaker’s Page:
Out of the Trenches: Stories of Resilient Educators (Amazon)
Out of the Trenches Podcast (Apple Podcast)
Follow Dr. Dana Goodier:
Facebook: @danagoodier
X: @danagoodier
BlueSky: @danagoodier
IG: @outoftrenchespc
Threads: @outoftrenchespc
BlueSky: @outoftrenchespc
YouTube: @outoftrenchespc
Teach Better Mid Roll Network Ad
Connect with Principal JL Click Here:
Want to be a guest on Educational Leadership with Principal JL?
Send Principal JL a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1742787866678447e5bdb89c1
Today's guest is Dr Dana Goodier. She has 25 years of experience in education, shaping classrooms and leading schools. She has taught world languages and English, has served as an administrator at every level and has coached educators. She's the author of Out of the Trenches Stories of Resilient Educators and the host of Out of the Trenches podcast, where she amplifies inspiring stories from educators across the globe. Now let's get to the conversation with Dr Dana Goodier. Welcome back to another episode of the Educational Leadership Podcast. Today I'm excited to bring on the show Dr Dana Goodier. Dr Dana, welcome to the show. Well, thanks for having me. You bet I'm going to go ahead.
Dr. Dana Goodier:I'm going to start you off.
Dr. Dana Goodier:I'm going to ask you the same question I ask everybody on the languages. So it was really the summer job that I had during my bachelor's degree time. I was guiding tourists in the north of Norway and I was using the languages that I know to talk to these strangers and tour buses about the sites they were seeing, and it got me used to being in front of a group. That was a good way of just, you know, exposing myself in the language and you know, getting used to speaking to people that you know, having that speaking experience and having the ability to tell about things in a language. And then, when I was finished with my bachelor's, I then decided to go into a master's in education. So it was really just that relaying of knowledge about the place that I lived in and you know the connections with these tourists, although that was quite different than teaching, but it still was a good way of just getting used to being in front of a group and getting that type of instruction that you do as a tour guide.
Principal JL:I bet. So a tour guide is what inspired you. So how did you become a tour guide? Can you give us a little background on that, sure?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I lived in Tromsø in Norway, which is it's above the Arctic Circle, it's between the Arctic Circle and the North Cape of the Arctic Circle. It's between the Arctic Circle and the North Cape and at the time it was the only university in Northern Norway. They now have several locations, but I've always been interested in like sites to visit. I previously visited the city as a tourist on the Harttigruten, which is a coastal streamer cruise ship that goes up and down the coast of Norway. So I think two years after I moved there they had a guide course. I think it was like over the spring, and I took the guide course and learned all about the city and all the details that I would need to know the museums and things like that and then you do some practice guiding in the bus with experienced guys. So yeah, I did that for like eight summers for about 10 years.
Principal JL:Oh, wow, I mean, that's really kind of a cool background, you know. So you got some of this real world experience. You're out living, you know, outside of the United States and experiencing all these great experiences, which I'm pretty sure probably helped you. Now you're an educator. What lessons did you learn as a teacher that helped you become an educational leader?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I was, as I said, teaching French for, I would say, the majority of the time I taught and I ended up being a department chair in two different high schools. One of them was because the department chair left and I was the most senior person afterwards. But I think being on the instructional leadership team and learning about, like, what were the needs of the different departments and what were some of the ideas that we had in terms of attendance and, you know, parent communication, things like that as an instructional leader team leadership team really helped me get interested in leadership. I also wanted to evoke change in the school like, especially with that parent communication piece.
Dr. Dana Goodier:When I was working at a high school I would get frustrated as a teacher, like not being able to contact parents because we didn't have the right number or you know, the lack of, sometimes support in terms of, like, getting kids to turn in assignments and things like that. So you know, I at one of the high schools I was a part material. I was on a parent partners coalition where I worked with getting parents more involved and finding out ways of helping parents understand more about the grading system. We did standards-based grading and also like applying to college and financial aid and things like that. So I think some of these experiences that I had as a department chair and just working as a teacher and being active on committees helped a lot in terms of moving into educational leadership, and obviously the next move was to then take the principal licensure program. So, yeah, I did that for a couple of years, 2009 to 2011. So it's been a while.
Principal JL:Been a minute right. What I'm hearing you say is like hey, I'm in this teaching role. You got active in the leadership side, being a department chair, being a part of committees which I can relate to, because, as a teacher, I started becoming a part of committees just to try to help. You said invoke change and try to be a part of the change instead of just sitting back and complaining about it. As a teacher, I got involved and it sounds like you kind of did some and try to be a part of the change instead of just sitting back and complaining about it. As a teacher Got involved. It sounds like you kind of did some of the same stuff there as well. So you're teaching, you're getting these leadership experiences.
Principal JL:What was it that go? You know what? It's time to go become a principal. What was that journey like? Was there like an aha moment? Was there some encouragement? What was it that said when was there like an aha moment? Was there some encouragement? What was it that said you know what? I am where I'm at with teaching, but I'm ready for that next step. What was that like? What was the transition? What did you transition into? You know? Just kind of tell us that story about that.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I would definitely say, once I finished the principal licensure program, I applied already in 2011 to like assistant director jobs and dean jobs, but it took me until 2018 to actually get a dean job. So you know, I wasn't, it wasn't like a straight and easy path. So I think it could have done, you know, maybe resume polishing, it could have been like interview practice, and I ended up working with the principal center, with Justin Bader, a lot on and just fine, tuning those things, I think once I'd interviewed for a number of years. So the first step was working as a dean and I did a lot with attendance.
Dr. Dana Goodier:It was a Title I middle school. Some schools were the AP with discipline, but look at that school, the APs were in class. If a school has a dean, they tend to keep deans busy with those things, and I really tried to build relationships with kids and not be like the mean lady. They saw when they got sent down to the dean's office, it was really taught home with them and so I was listening to parents. So I got a lot of communication skills through that experience.
Principal JL:So 2018, you finally got that job. You're in the dean position Sounds like you're almost like practically assistant principal in a lot of ways. On that end, you're doing some instructional coaching, which I think is really beneficial, because then you know where did it go from there. You went from dean, did you become assistant principal, did you become a building principal. Kind of tell us about that journey because I would say, you know, for me, I was at a small rural school when I became a principal. I was, quote unquote, a building principal, but I did discipline and I did curriculum development, I did instructional coaching. I did a lot of things with that building level principalship kind of did like some assistant principal roles on top of the building role. So with that experience, that kind of led you into the next step. What was that next step? How did it come about and what are some experiences that helped your leadership grow in that journey?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So it was then being like the APO instruction and curriculum. So that was where I was working a lot with especially English language learners and helping the teachers build capacity in their instruction and working very closely with the district and finding ways to help them navigate some of the challenges, especially when there were a lot of newcomers also looking at the enrollment and that fluctuated a lot. So I was really for a couple of years honing in a lot of newcomers also looking at the enrollment and you know that fluctuated a lot. So I was really for a couple of years honing in a lot on that piece of just, I would say, streamlining the CUNY Google Learner program at the school because in the past five years at that school, so working a lot with that but also helping kind of put my influence on school culture.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So in that role I wasn't really working with the discipline and attendance piece, it was really more the instructional side and then supporting PLCs, working with different teams and you know, having them work on, you know how they could best support some of these kids that were in their classes, support some of these kids that were in their classes and you know, also when we had some veteran teachers who were more used to working with the MLLs, having them share out during PD days to other teachers and also building staff culture and positivity. And then also making sure that you know, I was getting into classrooms even though I was also working with kind of the processing of some of these multilingual learners, making sure I was getting in and seeing teacher practice and then working slowly with teachers that get extra support and checking in with them regularly, even if it wasn't observing.
Principal JL:So was that at the middle school level when you were doing all that? Yes, so was that at the middle school level when you were doing all that? Yes, okay, yeah, because I remember, you know just kind of, when I was looking you up and researching you, you were a middle school principal, and so with that, what are some things that you learned about leadership? How did you grow in that role? What are some big takeaways being that middle school principal?
Dr. Dana Goodier:I think once you're in a leadership role, it's really listening to your staff, I think, really starting off with that and that's making those connections early on. You know you could be in a school that has, you know, 50% veteran staff, let's say teachers that have been there three years or more and this is just an example from my experience and then you know 50%, roughly, staff that were new or had been there less than three years. But finding out their journey, you know, if they were, they'd always taught the subject that they were teaching, or if they were new to that, because I had somebody who'd been a French teacher and teaching English for the first time in 20 years. So you know, supporting teachers if they were not only new to the building but also new to the subject area. Or also teachers who maybe had alternative certification and hadn't maybe taught at that level before. So I think it was really honing in on some of the needs that teachers had, because it wasn't always, you know, apparent. When you first meet with the teacher like you know they don't always want to see so but talking with them about their backgrounds and and then also like a challenge in a school, that is Title I, like you know, with student behavior. Sometimes you know talking with them about kind of how they handle that and then working with some of the teachers that did use some strategies that worked and then having them share out during PD or PLC about especially certain students kind of that were high flyers, so really kind of focusing about focusing in on teacher strengths and, you know, them supporting one another.
Dr. Dana Goodier:I think also is important to make sure that you aren't like in an office all the time. I mean there's some administrative work you have to do but I didn't get a rolling desk but I think you know you can easily take the laptop with you if you're going around the building. It's not that hard where there are like campus monitor stations that have like a little station with a room for a laptop. So standing in the hallway, you know, for a period of time is always good. Being outside when there's the lunch rotation, the kids, you know, eat lunch and they go outside for a while and just kind of being the extra set of eyes is a good way to build relationships with students and I think also just making sure that parents feel comfortable reaching out to you and that they feel supported because you know there's parents that are going to reach out or they'll show up at the school, no matter what, but you know that they know that their question is going to be answered and, if you don't have the answer right away, that you'll get back to them within the next 24 or max 48 hours, that you know you can contact the people necessary to contact, because I think the parents are the ones that are going to be writing the reviews on your school for new students, right?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So you want to make sure that they're getting supported, especially in terms of, like bullying or, you know, if a student has an IEP, those types of things, making sure that they feel like you know they're able to say what they need to say in the meetings, like the IEP meetings, and that things are being followed through with in terms of, if there are other staff that are involved maybe with a parent conflict, that you know we're able to resolve the situation and the parent doesn't feel like there's any loose ends.
Principal JL:Yeah, great. I mean I hear a lot of great things in there. You know you want to make sure you're communicating well with everybody, you're building relationships, you're being visible, you're doing all the things that good administrators do. People that do a good job do those type of things, and so I heard a lot of common themes. You know, you know, when I've done this podcast for a while now, a lot of guests talk about some of the same things over and over again, and everybody that comes on this show has does a really good job being an educational leader. So, yeah, so it's really interesting to see how everybody, no matter where you're at in the world or in the United States, there's some common themes to being a great educational leader, and I really appreciate you touching on those and kind of talking about your experience on that. Let's talk about your book Out of the Trenches. What inspired that? What's the book about? Can you kind of give us a taste of it? And then, what was it that you're hoping people will get out of the book?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I started my podcast Out of the Trenches in 2020. And I'd had Darren Pepper on the podcast and you've had him on as well on your podcast and so I got connected with him. And it was after I'd had him on the podcast and then he left his superintendency and started Rotossum LLC and I saw a couple of people who started publishing with him and I hadn't really thought about, like this is a bucket list item, right, writing a book right, or things that I would be able to share. And so I did, kind of I put a proposal together and so I finished, I started the podcast in May of 2020. And then I put a proposal together and signed a contract for the book in August of 2021. I'd only written a few chapters then, but really the book is about putting you know, really your why, and thinking about like how that changes in education. Right, and the book came out in 2022, but I think it's a it's it's not a dated thing, right, cause I think theme of the podcast is is talking to the educators about stories of resilience and what kept them in education. Or, you know, are they doing something?
Dr. Dana Goodier:Education is adjacent, and in the book it's like you know exercises when you're asking, like, is this role fulfilling you? Right, had, if you've been a fifth grade teacher for 20 years, like, is this stuff fulfilling you? Or is there something else you'd like to explore? Right, I've heard of people you know teaching fifth grade that many years and then they all of a sudden they go into special ed. Right, I mean, I've seen that, like veteran teachers, like all of a sudden they'll stay at the same level, but like they'll do something that's totally different.
Dr. Dana Goodier:This wasn't filling their bucket anymore, working like in French for a long time and then I taught some English and then, you know, I've done the coaching and the dean stuff. But, like I bet, for me it was moving into these other places, either physical places or just roles that were going to challenge me or help me try new tools, try new resources, work with staff in a different way. So I think it also helps educators in the book talk about what got them into education in the first place. Right, is that? Is that still true today? Right to, even I've I've seen teachers who only have been in education for five or six years, right, and then they start to wonder, you know, is this right for them? And, and you know if we exclude, you know, the funding and some of the other federal things I think you know you want to also think about, like you know, just the purpose you have as an educator, right?
Dr. Dana Goodier:Does that still ring true for you, right? Or you know, is it something, is there something else that you could do in the educational space, right? So you know. And then I weave my story and some of these experiences like I said, the many interviews that I went on before I got an administrative job. I weave in some experiences from being a new teacher and some of those stories into also stories from people that I interviewed on the podcast prior to when the book was published. So, you know, hoping that that helps inspire people to see like they're not alone. Some of the stories that I had I think other people can relate to, and also those who I highlight in the book. So you can find the book on Amazon. It's also on Kindle and on the Road to Awesome website.
Principal JL:Well, that's really cool because I didn't know that you had the podcast before the book and so that's really really interesting with that. And I've listened to your podcast and listened to some episodes about other people's. You know out of trenches stories that you have them tell as well, and so did you have an out of trench, out of the trench story. That kind of motivated you into this direction of starting the podcast, because I want to go there next. You know what motivated you to start the podcast? Because I want to go there next. You know what motivated you to start the podcast? Because we kind of heard how the podcast inspired the book. What was that moment? What was your out of trench story that got you to that point and trying to help others.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I started the podcast. I kind of had an idea to start the podcast already in like September of 2019, but I was still working on my doctorate so I had extra time. After I'd finished it, I looked into a book that I'd gotten mentioned about on the principal center it was. It was on his. He did like webinars for school leaders and somebody mentioned it's school leader dunk tank.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So it's like there's a lot of anonymous stories in there about people who just some negative situations in districts and at the time I was coming out of a situation that wasn't great and some of the you know just experience with that and I think like, even though it was a trench moment, like coming out of that situation, I knew I was going to plow forward right and find the next greatest thing. And just like, your experiences don't always define you Right and sometimes if you're in, you know, school that's not great. It's not always, you know, it's definitely not necessarily you, or sometimes it's staff, but it's also if you're a leader or an aspiring leader. It helps you realize like what not to do. So a lot of time it's a learning experience as well, and that's just something I had to tell myself. So I think it was also that title was based on, like just just that I was coming out of a trench in that that period of time and, like I knew, there'd be other trenches in life, right.
Dr. Dana Goodier:There's going to be other educational trenches but like some of them are like further down in the trenches, but really being resilient like holding resiliency right yeah.
Principal JL:Yeah, you bet. I mean you know what I'm hearing you say is you're kind of like in a trench in education at the time and you found some stories. You're like, whoa, I'm not alone here. There's other people that go through some of the same things that I go through and I think that's what's really great about your podcast and the book is you kind of talk about those things. Is everybody's got a story right? Because everybody's got a story right, my purpose of my podcast is to connect people To say, hey, you know what, you're not alone out there.
Principal JL:There's other educational podcasts out there to get in touch with to where they have great resources but you're helping inspire the next generation of leaders. But also trying to help those that are in the seats because you know we can go to conferences. You can go to network meetings and state conferences and national conferences, but you're still day to day grinding at your school. You might need something to fill your bucket through the school year. So I definitely would tell people to give your podcast and listen out of the trenches by Dana Goodyear for sure. Put that on one of your lists for podcast rotations With that, you know, I find that really great. What got you to what you're doing? What are you up to today? You know what are you doing. Are you currently in leadership or did you step away from that? And if so, what got you to? What made that decision? And then, what do you do today to help educational leaders?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I am still working in a school and working in a leadership position. I am working a lot with the MTSS process and restorative practices. At this time, you know, I would say I definitely have a side hustle in terms of, you know, speaking and getting out there and speaking at conferences five times a year roughly. I do a lot of you know, sending out proposals, but I'd like to do more like work with districts in terms of teams and working with PLCs or doing keynotes, I think. I think I realized a year ago, you know, I'd like to just held my speaking skills more, maybe through another training or something like that that I know of different things that they cost money, right. So I probably would want to do that first, because I did kind of a year ago, contemplate trying to go out on my own and just leave the district. But it's you know, you need to have, I think, an income and then when you're ready to step away and it could be retirement, well, I'm ready to step away.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So I don't know, I think right now it's just good to make sure I, you know, get that speaking experience. I have been speaking at conferences for about eight years now and I try to build a different one. Sometimes I do the same one every year, but I try to like rotate different ones and you know the different audiences that they serve as well. But I, you know, really like the piece of getting in front of an audience and talking about just various topics that help leaders and teachers. And then I would say the volunteer piece that I do a lot is being the president of CCFLT.
Principal JL:Yeah, talk about that a little bit, because you do a lot of things, you're wearing a lot of hats. Hey, you're an education leader. You speak in gigs. I got a podcast. Hey, I'm the president of I don't even I know it's CCFLT. Yes, yes Can can explain what that it kind of like. Just tell us about the work that you're doing right now and helping educate leaders, and you know, being the president of this organization. How does that help you be able to help other people in that capacity as well?
Dr. Dana Goodier:so usually when you hear from a school leader, they're like on the board of the Principals Association for the state, but this is actually a teacher association.
Dr. Dana Goodier:It's the World Language Teacher Association in Colorado, and it's basically giving back to the organization that supported me when I first started teaching in Colorado.
Dr. Dana Goodier:I would attend their conferences, their workshops, things like that and I've been on the board since 2020 and worked my way kind of through, you know, being an exhibit chair and then the president-elect president due to a resignation, usually one year, but it's a little bit easier in a year without having to put on a big conference.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So you know, I think, working with a team of educators those who are still in the classroom teaching world language some of them are district level coaches for world language, but it's really good Also doing, like the doing the other side of a conference right, a state level conference where you're planning like the program, you're helping get the exhibitors set up and then also, you know, signing a contract with a hotel and those types of things. So it's been a pleasure, it's been interesting, you know, learning about it, and I will be president then until May and then the past president for a year. So I got around a couple more years left on the board, but maybe eventually I'll be on the board of another organization too, because I like serving educators in this way as well.
Principal JL:I love that. You know you're going. You know what I want to give back. I want to do things and be on boards and like for me personally, I haven't really done a whole lot of that. I actually am the president elect of Region 4 Nebraska State Association of Secondary Principals for my state and that actually just happened this past year. So I'll serve two years on that role and then I'll serve two years as president, and so I mean that's going to be an interesting challenge, a little bit extra work, but I think it's.
Principal JL:You know you're starting to give back to things that got you to where you're at today, and really part of my podcast is going to those regional meetings and listening to everybody's stories and go man, that'd be really great if we could share these types of stories with other people so they know that they're not alone. And that's where you got that community built up, when you, when you network and have those type of connections, especially at the state level. And then, if you're lucky enough to go to national level, I went to the National Association of Secondary Principals, that's the NASSP, but the NAESP also kind of did their conference together, which was a lot of fun because you could network with a lot of different people across the nation and go. You know what. This is really cool because now I'm understanding I'm not alone. They go through the same problems in Alabama as I do in Nebraska or New Jersey or Florida or California, wherever Colorado even as well.
Principal JL:So those are the best parts about that is that networking and learning strategies and getting your bucket filled and getting you ready for the next year. So I really appreciate the work that you're doing for that organization and giving back to others. Now you're also a member of the Teach Better team, so tell us about your contributions with that and how did you get involved with that? This podcast is part of that network as well, and I think it's a really great network to be a part of. And you know, I think this network also connected us. So can you tell us about some of the things that you do to help the Teach Better team?
Dr. Dana Goodier:Yes, so yeah, my podcast has been on the network, I think, for three years. I have written many this past year, but you know, if you go to the teachbettercom website and just put my name in, you can get all the blogs I've written since 2020. So kind of varying depending on the time of year, Right, but there's a lot of blogs there that are relevant, even if I wrote them three years ago. Like you know, taking care of yourself during the summer or you know, preparing for the beginning of the school year or those types of things. Know, preparing for the beginning of the school year or those types of things you know.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So whenever I have like a topic that comes to me, like that I'm experiencing or that I want to share with others, I'll write a blog post. I'm also an ambassador for them, so that's really just helping share out their content. It's also it's a group of people educators, and and we meet once a month and we also do some TV online, so it's a group of people that I've gotten to know over the years. So, administrative Mastermind, I knew about it because I know I don't think you were on it in the spring- I'm learning as I go here.
Principal JL:I'm fairly new, I've got 10 years yeah.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So you'll be able to join us in August. Probably mid-August They'll start back up in it's 8 am Central. I'm usually working out so I'm off camera, but what they're dealing with you know, whatever is going on, so it's a good way of just kind of hearing about. You know some tips that people are giving other educators and you know what people can help each other with.
Principal JL:Perfect. Yeah, I actually did one of the virtual conferences with them and kind of went through that a little bit not too long ago. So, yeah, it's a great organization to be a part of. Thank Darren Pepper for hooking me up to meet Jeff Gargis to get me on the network. I think it's gone really well and I really enjoy being a part of that network as well and being a part of the network with you and other people that are on there A lot of great, great people that kind of talk to and network with as well. So, dana, this conversation has kind of just been going really quick. We're almost down to the end here. You know, I want to talk about school leaders that might be in their trench right now, or school leaders that are aspiring to be school leaders. What advice would you do to encourage them to get out of a trench? Or, if they're an aspiring school leader, what advice would you give them on those ends?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So, starting off with aspiring school leaders, you know, like I mentioned, sometimes the job's not always going to come right away. So don't give up. If you finish the program and want leadership experience that's outside the classroom you can still volunteer to do leadership tasks at the school that you teach at, like you know, doing stuff with the standardized testing, like helping out the testing coordinator, working with some of the APs on master scheduling right, helping lead PLCs, those types of things. So there are leadership roles that you can take on within your school. That will still help on your resume. I also would suggest for people who are maybe trying to apply to an assistant principal job right out of teaching, if your district has something that's admin adjacent, like a dean or a teacher on a special assignment role, instructional coach do that role for a couple of years, because it is unlikely to hire out of teaching to be an assistant principal. So don't give up. Also, like I said, if you feel like you need some guidance on your resume, there's a lot of you and practice those types of things. For those who are in the trenches, who are currently working in leadership, you know, I think there's different things, like I said, that could be impacting that trench right? Right, it could be the school culture and climate. It could be staff culture, climate. It could be that you're an assistant principal and you're working for a principal. That's not easy to work with, right, and I think sometimes it's just finding out, like, going back to your why right, it's finding out like is this place that you're working at, is that fulfilling you? Right, is this, is this work challenging you for your next step? Like, for example, if you're an AP who wants to get the experience to be a principal, right, is this the right place to do that? Because Rudy Caffelli often says, like, if you're just the disciplinarian right as an A, not necessarily getting the experience that you need to lead a building, right.
Dr. Dana Goodier:So make sure that you're out there visiting classrooms, that you have the ability to do that in your role, that you're not just being delegated to process right, and that you're taking on tasks and the best principals out there are those who you know delegate and find what their strengths are.
Dr. Dana Goodier:But also what are the strengths of the people on or out of the team, and so you know you have people who are in charge of different things at the school, people who aren't, you know, in your district being part of, like, the admin mastermind I was also on the Better Leaders, better Schools mastermind for about five years. So those are just groups of educators in the US and Canada who talk about like what's going on and nobody's there to judge and you know it's not going to get back to your school. So you know you can get advice on like how you can you know work through that trench and I think really taking the time to help yourself and make sure you're getting exercise and you know the just any work, mindfulness and you know taking breaks throughout the year in terms of either family vacations or for me it's also doing the conferences that are during the school year to you know, kind of recharge at that time as well.
Principal JL:Yeah, but hey, those are all great advice. I really like how you talk to the aspiring leaders like, hey, you know what, it might take some time to get that role. Don't give up, be persistent. Might take some time to get that role, Don't give up, Be persistent. Learn from every experience, Take something and get better at it so you can nail the next job.
Principal JL:I really like that advice and really you know holistically, as educational leaders, this is a tough job.
Principal JL:You got to take care of yourself, you got to take care of the people around you.
Principal JL:But also know if you are going through a tough time, it may not be you, it may be the system that you're in, and some people may have to leave to get a better start somewhere else if where they're at is not going to help them grow to where they want to get to. So you know that's a hard decision because you're talking about moving yourself and your family and a lot of you know a lot of things on that end. But at the same time, if you want to aspire to be a great principal and you're not getting the experiences, you might want to find a district that will help you with that and be open and transparent about that. Not to say that where you're at is bad, just say it may not be the right fit at times. So I really love that those pieces of advice. So, Dana, if people wanted to connect with you, how could they connect with you and where can they find you if they want to learn more about your podcast and the things that you do?
Dr. Dana Goodier:So my website's danagoodiercom I'm on LinkedIn, facebook and Blue Sky and X at Dana Goodyear. I'm also on Blue Sky X and Instagram at Out of Trenches PC. The YouTube channel is Out of Trenches PC where you can find all my episodes, and on my website you can find out about different speaking opportunities that I do. I have a newsletter you can sign up for on the website. And, yeah, ccflt you can go there and find out more about the Colorado Congress for Language Futures at ccfltorg as well.
Principal JL:Awesome, and we'll link a lot of that stuff down in the show notes so it makes it easy for people that are listening to the podcast to find you and click and make it real easy for them to connect if they're interested in that. Well, dana, it was a pleasure to have you on the show today. I really appreciate your time and all the knowledge that you brought to us and I learned some great things, and, you know, I hope everybody got something out of this episode as well, and I really appreciate you being on the podcast. Do you have anything you'd like to say before we venture off into the sunset here?
Dr. Dana Goodier:Well, you know I'm recording this before teachers go back in Colorado and I think you know, when this comes out, probably a lot of educators will be going back into school. So, despite what your district might be facing if there's, you know, a lot of budget cuts, things like that I think you know we've got to. You know, remember our why, remember why we're in education. You know and see, you know like, continue doing the work that's making the difference. And if you're changing roles, you know be the best you can be in that role. And you know try not to let some of these external factors that you have no control over influence your day to day. Right, I mean, it's going to be part of it. But you know, try to do your best in your role and work with your colleagues. And you know, use the resources that you have available, whether it's the PD, whether it's different funding sources that are already there to. You know, make the difference in your area.
Principal JL:Awesome. Thank you very much, Dana. I appreciate being on the show. What a great conversation with Dr Dana Goodier. If you're inspired by what you heard today, share this episode with a fellow leader in the trenches. Don't forget to subscribe or leave a review, and stay tuned for more conversations that empower educational leaders like you. Until next time, be 1% better.
