IW 172: Interview Camilla Eurenius Part 1: The efsli Bug Bites the Swedish Bugg Dancing Interpreter

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We all have turning points in our lives, decisions we face and challenges we conquer. Swedish sign language interpreter, Camilla Eurenius, shares her turning points and journey into the sign language interpreting profession.

We learn about Swedish interpreter working conditions, education, and about Camilla experiences there.

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Transcript

IW 172: Interview Camilla Eurenius Part 1: The efsli Bug Bites the Swedish Bugg Dancing Interpreter

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS] 

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by English poet, songwriter and writer Thomas Haynes Bayley.

00:00:43 Tim

“Absence makes the heart grow fonder.”

00:00:47 Tim

This quote, well, this concept goes back to Roman times.

00:00:54 Tim

And throughout the years we have grown fond of this phrase.

00:00:59 Tim

When we miss something, when we don't have something, we think about it more. We forget about the negative parts. We push away the problems and remember the good things, and we become more connected with what we actually had.

00:01:17 Tim

In today's episode, we speak with Swedish Sign Language interpreter, Camilla Eurienus.

00:01:23 Tim

We learn about the Swedish sign language profession, the working conditions, education, what it takes to become a sign language interpreter, and more about Camilla and how she became a sign language interpreter and how she left and came back to the profession.

00:01:44 Tim

Let's listen to what that really means.

00:01:47 Tim

Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:53 Tim

My guest today is from Sweden.

00:01:56 Tim

It is the one and only Camilla Eurienus. She is a Swedish sign language interpreter and a traditional Swedish dancer and an avid Walker. Maybe we'll find out why. Camilla, welcome to the program.

00:02:14 Camilla

Thank you so very much for having me.

00:02:16 Tim

It's wonderful to see you again. I know I've seen you well many times over the years at different international conferences and what have you, especially the efsli conferences. So, Camilla…

00:02:29 Tim

I was going to start with Sweden, but let's start with your personal…

00:02:33 Camilla

Yeah.

00:02:34 Tim

…biography here. What is traditional Swedish dancing?

00:02:39 Camilla

Oh! Yeah, it's, it's hard to explain. I think it's not a folklore dance. [Tim: Mm-hmm] It's called Bugg. And it's similar to Linden, not really because it's not that “hoppy”. [Tim chuckles] If I could say it bouncy that way, yeah.

00:03:00 Camilla

I think it's a very…

00:03:03 Camilla

What do we say? It, it's a live music band playing often when it's social dancing. A lot of people, happiness and social, I would say, yeah. [both laughing]

00:03:17 Tim

That, that makes sense for you being a very social person, social, getting together. How do you spell the dance?

00:03:25 Camilla

B-U-G-G.

00:03:27 Tim

Uh-huh. 

00:03:27 Camilla

Yeah, I'll send you a clip in the future.

00:03:30 Tim

OK. [both laughing] Let's talk a little bit about the sign language interpreting field in Sweden.

00:03:40 Tim

And let's start off with the obvious question. How many sign language interpreters do you have, and how does that compare to the number of sign language users or Deaf in Sweden?

00:03:53 Camilla

Yeah, it's a good question. There's never been a number really on how many sign language interpreters there is in Sweden. I actually reached out [both chuckle] to the, the association this morning to, to get hold of. Are we still saying this number or what? What is it all about now? And they said that sign language interpreters, speech to text, Deafblind interpreters. Overall, the last figure they had is that we're about 600.

00:04:24 Tim

600. [Camilla: yeah]

00:04:26 Tim

And…?

00:04:26 Camilla

The Deaf community? [Tim: Mm-hmm] You're thinking how many are there? Yeah. It's also hard to get a number of that. During my whole period within the field, I think we've been saying it's 10,000 sign language users.

00:04:29 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:04:43 Camilla

Might be mistaken on that number though.

00:04:46 Tim

Yeah. Just out of curiosity, what is the population of Sweden?

00:04:50 Camilla

It's been 10 million for a long time now I think, but I think we're gradually, like putting up a little bit, but approximately.

00:05:00 Camilla

Let’s say.

00:05:01 Tim

So that compares really with the Czech Republic in all aspects except for how many sign language interpreters you have you have about, I'd say 5 to 6 times as many as we have here, yeah.

00:05:13 Camilla

OH!

00:05:15 Camilla

And then I'm thinking still we have not that many. [Tim: Yeah, yeah] Yeah.

00:05:20 Tim

It's all, it's all relative and, and the demand, I guess, yeah.

00:05:24 Camilla

I guess yeah.

00:05:25 Tim

I think connected to that is the system that you have for interpreters getting jobs, how they're paid, how does that whole system work?

00:05:35 Camilla

Yeah, the whole system is, I'd say the basic or like the foundation is that it's a regional agencies. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:45 Camilla

That get the assignments in, and they are to make sure there's sign language interpreters to take on the assignments. But in Stockholm area and area close to Stockholm, it's only private companies doing everything.

00:06:05 Camilla

It's still the, the regional former agency, if you could say that, that takes on all the assignments, but they have done a procurement. So, they started a long time ago in Stockholm area, [Tim: Mm-hmm] but they were the second region doing that.

00:06:27 Tim

Let me be clear. Do you mean the agency for that region they have a list of interpreters that they call when they get request for interpreters. Is that how it works or are they employees or?

00:06:40 Camilla

Yeah, kind of.

00:06:43 Camilla

Yeah, some of, some of them are, have like all the procured companies. Some of them have employees.

00:06:53 Camilla

And some of them are just single interpreters themselves, so they will just take on their own assignments. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:02 Camilla

There's a lot of people now that are connected to the first line company, if I could say so. The, in the first procurement, they also wanted the, the receiver of all the assignments to be also not in the region, but they realized that no company was going to take on that task because there's no money in that.

00:07:32 Camilla

I mean, it's not money in the business either. I don't actually, to be honest, I don't think sign language interpreting should be something that we put out on the market like this because I think it's a service that should be provided.

00:07:48 Camilla

And I think it could be done differently.

00:07:53 Tim

The companies that you're talking about, are you talking about the agencies’ companies or companies that need interpreters?

00:08:00 Camilla

No, I mean like the agencies, they have the list of procured, how do we say companies, the sign language interpreters’ companies.

00:08:10 Tim

I see. Uh-huh.

00:08:11 Camilla

Yeah. So, it's still regional based, but they will pay us who do the assignments.

00:08:20 Camilla

And follow that kind of list, but they can also in this region you can ask for a certain or wish you can put down 10 names and they will ask those first. [Tim: right] And if none of them can do the assignment, they will ask you as a Deaf person, can we have another [Tim: this person or-] yeah, sign language interpreter?

00:08:44 Camilla

And most people want an interpreter. So of course… [Tim: yeah, yeah] Yeah.

00:08:49 Tim

So then, where does the money come from? Are the Deaf people paying it or?

00:08:53 Camilla

No, no governmental money.

00:08:56 Tim

OK, so the agency is funded by the government, and they have so much money per year or something like that.

00:09:01 Camilla

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

00:09:03 Tim

OK.

00:09:03 Camilla

Unfortunately, I would say they've cut down on the money, of course, as they always, and that's why I'm not so happy about the procurement because they look into money instead of quality and other aspects. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:18 Camilla

And I think we miss out on continuous studying and learning, going to conferences. There's no money for that.

00:09:27 Camilla

At least the companies or I should say agencies, I mean, they always sent one or two maybe to the sign language interpreter organization conference that was held every year before. But since everybody's cutting down, keeping the money down, the costs down, it's very hard to arrange these conferences nowadays because nobody really attends. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:55 Camilla

Which is really sad because we really need to get together, meet each other, discuss and [Tim: yeah] yeah.

00:10:03 Tim

So, you have one national sign Language interpreter association?

00:10:06 Camilla

Yeah, that's correct.

00:10:08 Tim

OK.

00:10:08 Camilla

Yeah. And I think they're doing a great job because they are offering times where we can meet on zoom and interesting topics. I mean everybody's into different things, but they have a variety of things that they offer us as members, and sometimes they even offer nonmembers to join in. So that's nice.

00:10:31 Tim

So, is it how you get your ongoing education then?

00:10:35 Camilla

Yeah. The thing is, in Sweden, we don't really have something that established the ongoing education. There's no demand [Tim: Ah] doing anything like I've heard of the rest of the Europe thanks to efsli.

00:10:46 Camilla

I mean you get to know how it works in different countries. [Tim: Yeah] So, I think that's a lack here in Sweden. I mean, you can take part in different courses [Tim: Mm-hmm] sometimes of the year, but there's not anything that's really regular, I'd say. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:11:04 Camilla

And there's no, nothing pushing you really.

00:11:09 Tim

So then, how do you get qualified to work as an interpreter? Is it just a diploma or a degree somehow or?

00:11:17 Camilla

It's been a diploma for many years and in the beginning. It was, I might be mistaken, like a two weeks for CODAs mostly of course, as it starts [Tim: Sure] in many countries. [Tim: exactly] That's the beginning. Yeah. And then it added on four weeks.

00:11:36 Camilla

I think they had six weeks and, and then it got became one year. But when, for me myself, I studied for four years. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And that was at a folk high school.

00:11:48 Camilla

So, they can put in a lot of practice into their education. [Tim: Yeah] And now we also have a program at the university in Stockholm.

00:11:58 Camilla

It's a candidate program, so it's three years now.

00:12:02 Tim

Is that a bachelor's degree then?

00:12:04 Camilla

I would say yes, but might be mistaken, but it should be I guess, yeah.

00:12:10 Tim

Yeah, three years. OK, hmm.

00:12:11 Camilla

That's my time. It was two years plus two years. So, you first studied the language and things and got into that. And when you had that package, you could continue to become a sign language interpreter.

00:12:25 Camilla

And at the time it was in, ah, now I want to say seven schools in Sweden. [Tim: Mm-hmm] But they've cut down. It might be five only, but now it's down to three [Tim: hmm] places where you can study this together, but also then it's the additional ten years they've been having the program at uni-, Stockholm University.

00:12:48 Camilla

That was not before including the Deafblind part, but I think they've added it's now included.

00:12:57 Camilla

Maybe I should not talk about that. You should invite some Swedish person from the university. To talk [Tim chuckling] about that part.

00:13:04 Tim

Well, you can talk about what you do know [Camilla: Yeah] or have experienced. Yeah, yeah.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:13:10 Tim

And you can talk about your experience with the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode or any episode before, share it with a friend. Care to share. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:13:26 Tim

I'm thinking about how the system works: getting an interpreter. Is it usually at the request of a Deaf person, or is it the organization that is having the event or the doctor that has a Deaf client?

00:13:40 Camilla

I would say that if the doctor would need a interpreter, they are... I mean, that's also how it came along in Sweden that the need for interpreters within the health care system. That's how it was built. So, the agencies were together with the regions allocated in different cities, and to provide interpreters for those like doctor's appointments and things. But it's also been for free time. But the major thing was to make sure that the people got interpreters for health care within the healthcare system. [Tim: Yeah]

00:14:24 Camilla

And for a long time, it included like, except for the spare time, it also included work time, meetings and things. But that's been a kind of a change for a couple of years, I'd say.

00:14:39 Camilla

So, some things are covered by the regions, but some things are covered also by the companies that have Deaf people employed.

00:14:50 Tim

Ah, I see.

00:14:51 Tim

And are they legally obligated to do that, to bring in interpreters? Or do they just do it out of the goodness of their heart or, or both?

00:15:01 Camilla

I think it's a very good question, I think, they should, but legally I could not really say [Tim: Mmm] if it's something like that, but…

00:15:12 Camilla

I think it's within the society that you should have access, but of course if you're a small company, it's easy to not maybe make sure that all the meetings have an interpreter. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:25 Camilla

So, yeah, I think, it, it varies. [Tim: Yeah] I guess it depends on what person who works there. If you are strong and push for that, this is my need. This is what I, I demand this.

00:15:41 Camilla

They would get it, I think.

00:15:43 Tim

Yeah. Is there a national Deaf organization as well?

00:15:45 Camilla

It is absolutely.

00:15:47 Tim

Do they also provide interpreters as an interpreting agency under them?

00:15:54 Camilla

No, I would say that they are like their own organization and more lobbying for interpreters and, and their righst in society. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And they have this saying that, “Nothing without us, about us.”

00:16:07 Camilla

So, in having their struggle getting the rights for the Deaf people in the society because I mean, we think it's 2025 and we should be ahead of things. But absolutely there's a lot of lack in the society for the Deaf society. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:16:28 Tim

Yeah. How would you describe the relationship or the evolution of the relationship between the National Association of Sign Language interpreters and the Deaf National Association?

00:16:43 Camilla

Well, I think it's been quite a good relationship for a long time. Of course, when everybody's fighting for their rights, it's also hard to find the time due to the sign language into the organization being only not paid work to get together. I know we did… We, we copied in the beginning also what efsli did with the other organizations to have like a paper that we officially, “this is our aim that we're going to work together, support each other”, but I think that's falling out a little bit. But I think it would be a good thing to have because we are stronger together. I mean we know how it works. If one person screams, it's not as good as ten. [Tim chuckling]

00:17:39 Tim

Is it still possible to have a living wage, as it were, as a sign language interpreter?

00:17:45 Camilla

I would say yes, but I think there might be a lot of worry. Will I get enough assignments and things like that? And I think it's also for, for all of us that are having our own business.

00:18:01 Camilla

You want to stand up for one thing and fight for something, but in the end you're also gonna be the one saying, “OK, I'll take on that assignment anyway”, even though you don't think it's a fair deal. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So, I think we should get together, but it it's really hard.

00:18:20 Camilla

Because you can't also organize yourself, because then it's gonna be not completely good either, but discussions is always of course good.

00:18:32 Tim

Yeah, it's it's difficult to say one thing, but then the reality on the ground is you still need to make a living, [Camilla: Yeah] support your family, and you have to start where you are. Like you said, start where you are, but discuss what really needs to be done.

00:18:47 Camilla

Yeah.

00:18:48 Tim

That gets the ball rolling.

00:18:50 Camilla

And I know also that since it's a lot of women in this field and it's been discussed also we are not as good [Tim: hmm] to fight some fights, maybe, and because also we’re, I, I would say that goes for men as well, because we want the Deaf community to have access to interpreters.

00:19:12 Camilla

In the end, that might be also biting ourselves, because sometimes you feel like if I don't take on this assignment, I know that this Deaf person or Deafblind person will not get this for this weekend or Midsummer or whatever thing it is coming up, I think, yeah, it's a struggle for yourself sometimes.

00:19:32 Camilla

And sometimes we can't. I mean, take on that part because how our society is going to change if we keep adjusting and fixing it all the time as well. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:46 Camilla

It's very and yeah, I'd. I'd call that a struggle actually, [Tim: hmm] because if you put on your own limits and I'm not gonna do this if it's not like this, and then you set back on your own kind of set of rules. So yeah, it's hard to find out where you want to have your limits and those things.

00:20:09 Tim

Yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:20:14 Tim

So, let's go back a few years. Tell us about why and how you became a sign language interpreter.

00:20:22 Camilla

Yeah, I'd say because I'm born and raised in a town up north, not in the far north, but in the, yeah, up north in Sweden. And there was a Deaf school in that town.

00:20:35 Camilla

So, I'd say it's because I've seen sign language out in society, and I got curious. And at the gymnasium, what class is that? [Tim: like high school?] Like high school. Yeah, exactly. [Tim: In the U.S. anyway] Yeah. Then I had the chance to start with sign language as a third language. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And I took that chance. So, I had Spanish and sign language instead of German and French. [Tim chuckling] So, I was super excited to have that opportunity and that was thanks to a mother of a Deaf child who was a teacher.

00:21:15 Tim

Ah.

00:21:16 Camilla

Who also made it possible for us to study that.

00:21:21 Tim

Hmm. Is that common throughout Sweden to have a…?

00:21:23 Camilla

No, it's not really. So, I think we're really lucky at the time because it's hard to find teachers within sign language. And I think also for children that need sign language as a, [Tim: Mm-hmm] their mother tongue. It's very hard to find in the whole country.

00:21:43 Tim

Yeah. And is that the same…? Well, first, when was that?

00:21:48 Camilla

Ohh if we may back up. [both laughing] Yeah, I was done in 95 with that high school or gymnasium. Is it high school? Yeah, it probably is. Yeah. So that was a couple of years ago, I'd say. Absolutely.

00:22:06 Tim

So, from that you learned, I guess for a few years some Swedish sign language.

00:22:12 Camilla

Correct.

00:22:13 Tim

And Spanish, just to confuse everything. [Camilla: Yeah] Yeah. [both laugh] But then how did that turn into becoming an interpreter?

00:22:23 Camilla

Yeah. At the time I decided that I was going to be – become a sign language interpreter, actually. [Tim: Wow] So, but that road was not a straight path I can tell you. [Tim chuckles] Be-, because when I started to study some more later on, one of my teachers, she thought she-, you cannot become a sign language interpreter. You're too much of A social person. You want to interact [Tim: hmm] and, and engage.

00:22:53 Camilla

And well, it has its pros and cons because…

00:22:58 Camilla

As we know, as interpreters we need to adjust to the situation, and sometimes I think it's good to have a person who is not afraid also of reaching out, getting in contact to make sure that there can be a connection between people, [Tim: Mm-hmm] that’s being social also. [Tim: Yeah]

00:23:21 Camilla

But that was a little parenthesis I'd say. [Tim chuckling] No, but so, it was not as straight. I went to the States first in my being done with school and I tried on some American Sign Language, which I didn't think was that logical as the Swedish. [both laughing] And of course I did not have much of a ground in the Swedish sign language. I mean three years, it's not much for a language. [Tim: Yeah] And not especially if it's three hours a week.

00:23:53 Tim

So why did you go to the States then?

00:23:55 Camilla

I was in au pair for a year.

00:23:56 Tim

OK. And where was that? Michigan?

00:24:00 Camilla

Yeah, actually, Detroit. [Tim: Oh!] Not the place everybody would pick. No, that's true. Yeah.

00:24:04 Tim

Yeah. No, I'm like Detroit. Yeah. Such a bustling, booming town. No. Yeah, you're right. It wasn't all that good during that time period. Wow. Huh. So, you were in au pair for a year?

00:24:18 Camilla

A year. Yeah. And also, I was so stuck to becoming a sign language interpreter. So that was my goal for, and coming back home, then, there was a course – I somehow got to know that they had a course in a folk high school down close to Gothenburg area.

00:24:39 Camilla

And I applied and I was accepted. I think they had some dropping off or something. So, I got to enter there for 20 weeks or something. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And then I could apply for the real two first years to become a sign language interpreter, and then you add on, and you apply again. So yeah, that's how it all started.

00:25:02 Tim

OK. OK. So, from those courses that gives you the qualification, you might say to work as an interpreter.

00:25:12 Camilla

Yeah. [Tim: OK] Yeah. At the time, it was the 2 + 2 years that was what you needed to qualify, and I'd say it still is if you don't study at the Stockholm University and the Bachelor program.

00:25:26 Tim

You also mentioned Deafblind [Camilla: Yeah] and the new program there. So how did you get involved in that? Are you also working as a Deafblind interpreter?

00:25:36 Camilla

Yes, I do. I… the thing was in, in the previous years in Sweden when they developed the education for sign language interpreters, they had that you could choose to become a sign language interpreter or a Deafblind interpreter. But in the end, not many people wanted to become Deafblind interpreters maybe a fear or not knowing what it was included. So, they added it like they put it all together. So everybody got the knowledge, [Tim: Mm-hmm] even though in the end maybe everybody doesn't work as a sign language and Deafblind interpreters.

00:26:13 Camilla

But you still get it within the training, so you have the possibility to work within both fields.

00:26:24 Tim

Yeah, yeah, that's kind of how my training started as well, as well as the program that I helped start here. But now you say they have, at Stockholm, they have a separate degree for it or?

00:26:39 Camilla

No, no, no, it it's also included, but I I don't think in the beginning it wasn't really included. Maybe they, they, they covered it somehow but not as much as they do now. I think they've developed that part.

00:26:53 Tim

And is there a high demand for Deafblind interpreting?

00:26:57 Camilla

I do think it's quite a high demand because also some, some of the clients you…

00:27:05 Camilla

You need to be two interpreters when it's tactile. [Tim: right] Also, the group is diverse, so it's not only tact- sometimes it's just the distance and more. Yeah, it's different methods. If we could put it that way. Yeah. [Tim: Yeah. Yeah] So I, I think it's good that it's combined. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:27:27 Camilla

And then that it doesn't fit everybody. That's fine, because you can always choose. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:27:34 Tim

Since you're listening to the podcast, that means you've already donated time to listen to others around the world. So now donate a little bit of your money with Buy Me A Coffee, click on the links in the show notes. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:27:51 Tim

In the recent past, you decided to take a break from sign language interpreting. How did that feel and why? Why did you do this?

00:28:02 Camilla

It's a very good question actually. I I think because now when you ask me that I have to process it a little bit and I, I think I was not super happy with the conditions for sign language interpreters at the time, and I wasn't afraid of maybe trying something else.

00:28:23 Camilla

And I had done that also in the past, but this break ended up being longer than I had thought. I, I was still doing some interpretations during my other work, [both chuckle] if you could say so.

00:28:41 Camilla

But I think that was the reason and also because a colleague of mine said, “I think you should, you would fit into doing this and you would like it because you have to have an opinion of your own. [Tim chuckles] You have to do things and still work for the Deaf community in one way.”

00:28:57 Camilla

And I would say she challenged me a little bit because I promised her that next time there's an ad out for this, I would apply. And then she said, “Ohh, actually there's one here now it ends tonight.” I'm like, “OK, that was not the way I thought it was gonna go.” [Tim chuckling]

00:29:20 Camilla

So, but since I had promised I had to just get myself from her house and home and write my application and send it in. And I since I didn't take it that serious either, I think that was why it ended up being that they chose me in one way.

00:29:41 Tim

Yeah. So, what was this work?

00:29:43 Camilla

Yeah, this work was working at the Swedish Self-employment Center or it's a governmental body.

00:29:53 Tim

OK.

00:29:54 Camilla

Let's say so, but I, I worked in the unit for Deaf and hard of hearing, so it's more like working, how to say, different people within the unit are working to provide the Deaf and Deafblind and Blind and hard of hearing people with work?

00:30:15 Tim

OK.

00:30:16 Camilla

The role I had was to get to know the person and then to find a job. It's a collaboration, I'd say because you get to know the person, the strengths, the maybe weaknesses, try to find a good match for work and then have an employer who employs you and that you stay there.

00:30:38 Camilla

Hopefully it's going to be a good employment, but it's also governmental funded in some parts and you get also the aid that you might need if you need some technical parts. Yeah, they will provide you with that as well.

00:30:54 Tim

So, you weren't completely disconnecting from the communities.

00:30:59 Camilla

No. Uh, in one way because I think also, we're not so good in being at the Deaf clubs in Sweden as in sign language interpreters. Maybe in the beginning you are. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:31:10 Camilla

I must say, we're grateful for the opportunity and that somebody really takes on that you want to learn the language.

00:31:19 Camilla

But…

00:31:21 Camilla

There's also many people are not there anymore because the Internet, then everybody can stay at home and still be connected. I think that's changed, but also in the role as the interpreter. I mean, some people you still have a commitment with and your friends with you can have different roles. If you see them in a setting, but you won't take on any assignment with them anyway because everybody also wants their private space. [Tim: yeah]

00:31:51 Tim

It's hard to balance friendship, the community relationships, and the professional side. [Camilla: yeah] And the more experience we get, sometimes it's hard to separate it. We sometimes feel well, maybe I shouldn't go there. I don't want people to feel uncomfortable or yeah.

00:31:58 Camilla

Yeah.

00:32:08 Camilla

But I must say because coming back, I was actually away working with this for eight years.

00:32:15 Camilla

Who would have thought?

00:32:17 Tim

Wow. It's been that long?

00:32:19 Camilla

I know it's crazy and I missed out on so many … lovely conferences [both laugh] and that was really hard in the beginning to realize that I cannot go to efsli because I have a full-time job. So how am I gonna sponsor this? Sometimes I think I did also go once or twice, but because of the efsli bug that bites you quite hard sometimes, so you have to go. But I still continued to do Deafblind interpreting, for example.

00:32:48 Camilla

And, and I was that was also one of the things I negotiated with because when they want to hire me, I said why should I give up my self-employment and my company that I actually started and in the beginning, they said that I could not have this company parallel, but in the end it was possible. If not, I would never probably have gone down that route. [Tim: yeah]

00:33:19 Tim

Then what does it feel like coming back to only sign language interpreting?

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:33:28 Tim

Oh! the answer is next week.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:33:32 Tim

Today we had a wonderful conversation with Camilla, all of it together talks about connections.

00:33:38 Tim

Our connection, of course, to the Deaf community, the interpreting community, those we work with, but it also connects to our interests, our hobbies, our likes, our dislikes. All of these things that connect together throughout life to bring us to where we are now.

00:33:58 Tim

Those decisions throughout our lives that impact how we develop, how we grow, how we look back into our past and feel the absence and how we grow fond of what we miss, how we grow the connections stronger to those things that we love but have to be away from for a short time.

00:34:24 Tim

Camilla's personality and her interests… they give fuel to her energy, her social personality, her interests in social activities, traditional Swedish dance. All of those shape what kind of interpreter she is. It also shaped her work as a social worker or a, a work advocate. Whatever you want to label that her personal skills and connections helped her strive in each stage throughout her career.

00:35:02 Tim

And that personality allows her to see where things could be fixed, where things need to be better. It also gives her a positive outlook about the social connections that truly are the sign language interpreting field, the interaction that we have with everyone in the communities, whether it's professional friendship or merely a onetime acquaintance, connections are key.

00:35:32 Tim

Next week we delve deeper into the Swedish Sign language interpreter, Camilla. Until then.

00:35:41 Tim

Keep calm. Keep connecting through interpreting. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:36:23]