Yahweh’s Money®️: The Crossroads of Religion & Money

From Debt To Destiny™️: Mental Health Trauma

• Shay Cook & Vanessa McNelley • Season 3 • Episode 54

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Have you ever felt the weight of the world pressing down on you as bills pile up and the bank account dwindles? Shay Cook and Vanessa McNelley explore the seldom-discussed intersection of financial strain and mental wellness, illuminating just how closely they're intertwined. Our heartfelt conversation traverses the emotional toll of financial worries and how faith can act as a beacon of hope. We delve into the silent battles many face with medical debt, the evolution of society's approach to mental health from biblical times, and why holistic care that includes the power of prayer is more relevant than ever. 

This episode also brings to light the stark realities of pursuing disability benefits and the financial hardships that accompany living with a disability. We share candid experiences from the military community, providing a glimpse into the unique challenges veterans with PTSD face when seeking mental health services. With a focus on dismantling the stigma that still lurks in the shadows of mental health, we emphasize the vital role of community support and the resilience that comes from being part of a network that cares. Join us for a discussion that goes beyond surface-level conversation, as we celebrate our podcast's third season and advocate for a world where mental health care is as normalized as a trip to the doctor's office.

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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!

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Shay:

Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money come up? You're not alone. Welcome to Yahweh's Money, the podcast where we tackle the crossroads of faith and finance. I'm Shay Cook, an accredited financial counselor and the CEO and founder of Crusaders for Change LLC.

Vanessa:

And I'm Vanessa McNelley, accredited financial counselor and COO of Crusaders for Change. Join us on our journey as we discuss topics like tithing saving and conquering debt through religious perspectives. Let's get started.

Shay:

Hey y'all. Today, Vanessa and I will be talking about what happens when mental health and finances collide From the staggering cost of mental health care to the burden of medical debt that many people face while seeking treatment. We will also explore the emotional tolls that our finances can put on us, along with the solace we seek in faith and prayer. Let's shed some light on the overlooked challenges we face while striving for healing and stability. Wow, Vanessa, that's a mouthful.

Vanessa:

This is a heavy topic. It is a very heavy topic, so we have a lot to talk about.

Shay:

We do, we do, we do. And in Psalms 34, 17 through 18, it lovingly tells us the righteous cry out and the Lord hears them. He delivers them from all of their troubles. The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and save those who are crushed in spirit. Amen, lord is with y'all. If y'all are down and out in a deep and dark place sad, depressed, anxious, whatever the emotion feeling is, god is there for you. But today we're going to talk about this mental health trauma when it comes to finances. Y'all, because it's oh, it's like it's real.

Vanessa:

It is yeah, yeah. And and I think this is something we need to really think and talk about too is what does the Bible say about mental health too? So I think there's there's very little, if nothing, in the Bible. Right, there is.

Shay:

I mean it just talks from in a different place. You know, a lot of times back in the biblical days people thought it was the devil, which it could have been, or it was some mental or physical health, excuse me, that they were dealing with, whether it was you know what, have what's the different kinds of physical elements they had in the Bible I was thinking of leprosy, you know, or those kinds of things and a lot of things you know or they're just like oh, don't talk to that person, walk by them. You know, they were kind of like shying away from them. Every time I read the Bible it was like somebody sitting on the street dealing with yeah, they were shunned from the community and they were poor because nobody gave them assistance and they couldn't work, and it could have just been a mental health thing. So I think it's all in the Bible, it's just written differently than what we are.

Vanessa:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, you know.

Shay:

Thankfully we are living in different times where we can talk about these things, right, yeah, but get this.

Vanessa:

Over $240 billion a year has been spent on mental health care in the US.

Shay:

And this was in 2019. Yeah, so that's probably double triple, right, yeah?

Vanessa:

I mean, that is so much money so much money to be spent on mental health, and I think that shows us how important our mental health is, I mean just like our physical health.

Shay:

Yeah, exactly, and we definitely need to look at the numbers after the pandemic. I agree People are not taking care of themselves mentally. You know, we got this very powerful mind and brain and we don't. We don't do what we need to do to take care of that. We take care of our physical, spiritual family, but the mental health is missing. And then mental health issues I mean there's higher rates of unemployment and lower incomes because of all of this.

Shay:

I mean and it's yeah, employers are starting to add that to the packages which is great Mental health care, which is important, and then you're seeing a lot more health insurance saying you can get more than the 12 sessions or the yearly sessions which I remember back in the day. You can only go to a therapist for like a year under your medical insurance and you had to pay out of pocket. Now it's like continuous, which is great, because we all need that kind of assistance.

Vanessa:

Yeah, well, you think about this too. It makes a whole lot of sense with the higher rates of unemployment because people who are having, you know, mental anguish, they're, you know they lose the ability to have that drive a lot of times. They lose the ability to have that drive a lot of times. You know you become depressed and you want to stay inside and you want to be in a dark room and you know that's not. You know everything to deal with mental health but a lot of it brings on some depression and that makes us, you know, not really have the ability to get up and move through these things we normally could.

Shay:

To be productive.

Vanessa:

We say that with finances.

Shay:

People are usually when they're dealing with financial issues. They are not productive.

Shay:

And the same with mental health and there are some high functioning people with anxiety and depression and when I was reading an article recently where they're able to go into work and basically fake the funk, in my opinion I'm probably saying that wrong in terms of what psychology would say or a psychologist would say, but still, they're going in there and they're putting on the mask, they're putting on the face and saying I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. Really, when they go into the office or their cubicle they're suffering, but they're compartmentalizing all of those issues so they can get through the day and then they go home and they're like oh my God, like how and people do that with alcoholism, drug abuse, like financial issues.

Shay:

They carpent, carpent, carpent. Oh my God, say it for me.

Vanessa:

I don't know what you're trying to say, or I would Compartmentalize. Oh, compartmentalize yeah. Yeah, they do, they do you know, and I, you know, I I have some really good examples of this, unfortunately, in my life with all of this.

Vanessa:

But my father and I can talk about it now because he passed a few months ago. But my dad had really bad panic attacks and anxiety my entire life and it was something the entire family felt and we all had to deal with. Growing up we had we called it a babysitter. Anytime my mom would go out of town we would have to get a babysitter for dad is what we would say. You know he couldn't be left alone. He had like a one mile radius in which he was comfortable driving in from the house and thankfully my parents owned a business that was within that one mile radius so he could come and go back and forth to there.

Vanessa:

But it was a lot of taking care of my father growing up and making sure he had the things that made him comfortable, because if he was not comfortable, you know we all kind of suffered in that with him. But if he would have had a regular nine to five job, I don't know where my family would have been because I don't think that's something he could have really done. You know we were thinking that this probably happened. The panic attacks and anxiety happened after his time in the military and he worked in copper mines when he was in his 20s. So a lot of things can come up from that and it all kind of happened after that so he was able to kind of get through his early years. But you know it brings on a lot and if you think about lower incomes and unemployment with this, it doesn't just impact that person, it impacts everybody in their family unit.

Shay:

Exactly Family, and then your colleagues if they're suffering. You can see working with colleagues that are clearly dealing with some mental health issue. Is, it's? It's, it's yeah, I don't even know how to describe it.

Vanessa:

It's daunting yeah it's a lot. It's a lot.

Shay:

And then you know, either you're on the compassion side and you're learning sympathetic empathetic with them and you're like oh my God, how can I help you? Or you're on the other side and you're like dude, like you're not getting your job done, and so there could be like either way. It's a lot of stress on both sides, you know, so it's important to get that help.

Vanessa:

It really is. And yeah, and then mental illness is the leading cause of disability in the US, which that in itself is so impactful when you think about it, because it's one that usually mental illness is one of those disabilities you can't see.

Shay:

It's invisible Right.

Vanessa:

So there's all these people who are judging and saying it's not real.

Shay:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

You can. I mean, I faced this, you know, in my, in my home, when I was married, my ex-husband. He thought my dad was making everything up and that we were just catering to him and he was being a baby. And anytime I would change the way I did things because my dad was going to be there, I would, you know, get the brunt of that because you know it was fake and it was made up and all these things and it made life really really hard when you know and I'm, and I'm sure sometimes my dad probably put on a little more than he should have or could have cause he could have, you know, reined things in a little bit.

Vanessa:

Um, but it's a lot of stress on everybody involved with this. So you know, coming into this whole, unemployment, lower income and then the leading cause of disability I mean disability takes a long time to get- yeah. And there's a lot of time you don't work during that because you're going through the process of showing that you can't work. So, there's a lot of loss of income.

Shay:

Yeah, and that's just dealing with the disability income. So if you're just having a disability and you're not even trying to file for disability as terms of income, people are still suffering every day and, like you said, it's invisible, quote, unquote, because some people you can clearly see there's some things going on, but when it's, you know it differentiates from physical disability, where you can actually see somebody, you can make those accommodations for them. But and you can make accommodations for mental health as well. But you know you have to disclose that and there's a lot as we always talk about shame and guilt around mental health and everything else and you have to disclose that to your employer so they can make those kind of accommodations.

Shay:

So it's heavy, it's a lot, and a lot of people are not dealing with it. And then things happen in the world and you're like, oh, that person probably had a disability. Or things happen in a home and you're like, oh, my God, you know, I hear alcoholism and drug use and mental health, and mental illness is a huge issue for domestic violence, you know, or suicides and all of that. So, oh, goodness gracious.

Vanessa:

And then you move on to people not seeking help because they don't have insurance, because it's expensive, or their employer doesn't, you know, provide it Right Right, and I think you and I come from a military background and I am so thankful for the resources, but at the same time there was still that stigma, especially with the army of all the other branches.

Vanessa:

All the other branches you know, and my ex-husband was army and he suffered with PTSD after serving three tours in Iraq army and he suffered with PTSD after serving three tours in Iraq and he actually ended up committing suicide a few years ago. But when we were married, the last few years of our marriage, there was so much turmoil within him and trying to get help, even though we had insurance, finding a provider that accepted it and that was taking new patients because, the mental health realm is just inundated with patients and there's not enough providers out there.

Vanessa:

There's not, yeah. And then dealing with insurance is a whole other ball game. Oh my God, I mean it's ridiculous. I mean I remember I had a list of all the providers within a two hour radius of us and every day I would call, make phone calls, phone calls, phone calls not accepting new patients. They don't take TRICARE anymore. Finally, I was on round two of my list and I just broke down on the phone with a receptionist and I was like I don't know what I'm supposed to do, because here I am trying to get help for somebody who, in the first place, isn't going to seek it themselves. Um, and she was like give me two minutes. And I just happened to cry on the phone with the right person because they her and the therapists were ex-military.

Shay:

Oh, okay.

Vanessa:

So, you know, finally got him in therapy. But you know, then you move every few years and it's like, okay, we have to find a new provider.

Shay:

So it's. There's just so much dealing with this and then the cost of it without having insurance. And that's what I'm saying. Yeah, you know, hopefully you can afford it, hopefully if you can. But if you're listening and you can't, you know there's other avenues. I mean there's some free avenues out there and saying always use your search engines on your computer.

Shay:

But you know, chaplain, I went to a lot of chaplains over the years spiritual leaders, religious leaders, um and or family members that are, you know, some old head ones that listened that actually could offer some good advice. You got to test them out because some people are just so stuck in their ways. Like I was mentioning earlier, in the black community there is a huge stigma for getting help in mental health because they're like go pray it away or go to church and all that, which is great, but you still need to talk to somebody because there's a lot of judging and a lot of crap going on in the churches too and people don't feel comfortable. And so you know we need to get away from the stigma. And but it's in the military, it's in many different cultures, industry. I mean it's just all over.

Vanessa:

So I mean we are taught to suck it up and drive on you know you deal with it, especially for men. I think that's the biggest part of this too you know, and then you're talking about all this money being spent with insurance.

Vanessa:

Think about like prescriptions and deductibles and you know the insurance itself and the cost of all this. It can add up so quickly. So if you're already in a household that is underemployed or unemployed, you know what are you supposed to do. Yeah, what are you supposed to do you can feel trapped very quickly.

Shay:

You really can, you really can, and you know seeking help again wherever you can from there, especially after the pandemic or even during the pandemic, a lot of free resources were coming up, like what's it called Give an hour?

Vanessa:

Yes, I love give an hour.

Shay:

Yes, yeah, so those kinds of resources you know, and then there's, like I don't know, community centers out there that actually will provide a free session, you know. So there's different ways and and I know people are suffering from mental health because of all the stuff going on with their finances. So calling Crusaders for Change, getting your free clarity calls so we can help you get you some clarity, but also figure out how we can help you um and or connect you with another resource that you need Exactly.

Vanessa:

Yeah, because a lot of times when we spend or most always when we spend it's emotional and it's mental and we spend because we're happy or we spend because we're sad or because things are not going our way. There's so much linked together with our finances and our mental health, absolutely so.

Vanessa:

So what are some things we can do? I mean, can we, can we turn to God for help? You know, if we keep our faith in God and we believe in his plan, I feel like that already puts us in this headspace of being a little more aware and a little more understanding and a little more like gentle with ourselves you know and I think if we can give ourselves grace and we can seek God guidance from him, it's going to help pull us out a little bit at a time.

Shay:

Yeah, I agree. I mean, having faith in God is key in my life. From my experience, I would not be here without him. All the stuff that I've gone through and being able to rely on him and to be obedient to him and his plan and his word has been, oh my God. It's just been amazing to know that a higher spirit is there, guiding us, there for us. Of course, we have free will, but just being able to guide us through this heavy life, you know, and just all of the stuff that goes with it.

Shay:

Mental health is so daunting. I suffer from anxiety. I still have had depression since forever. I was clinically diagnosed back when I was 19,. Anxiety years later and done the medicine, been in therapy off and on for 20 plus years and without God and him guiding me to the right therapist and then being a military spouse and moving around and having to find a new therapist or a chaplain or somebody or friend colleague to talk to. I couldn't have done that without God. So, keeping faith in him and I just know I'm even reading my devotionals lately it's just the walk with him, having him close. He says when you're going through that is the time you need to be calling on his name, on his spirit, because that is where he wants. He gave us the spirit for that and much more, but especially to be by our side.

Vanessa:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we need to harness the power of prayer, and especially if we feel comfortable and hopefully we'll all get to that point where we can pray out loud and we can pray with others because if others know what we're going through and they're praying for us too.

Vanessa:

it's going to be a little easier because they're going to be more understanding. We're going to have the power of multitudes praying for us, right, and they're going to know what we're going through, and we have these other godly people around us that are going to check in on us and make sure we're okay.

Shay:

Yeah, exactly and I would add a power of prayer and praise, because I find those two go really hand in hand. You know praying through whatever you going through. I was reading the word today and acts in the scripture notes how they were talking about the prayer and how believers came back in the beginning days of the church of Peter and Joseph and how they were bringing that together after the resurrection of Jesus and how believers back then they prayed about the problem, but they didn't pray away the problem because they know God uses those problems so you become stronger and more wise and I love that. It's like you don't. Yeah, you can pray or try to say, lord, take this problem away from me, and he may do that. That is a miracle, but most of the time you are going to still have to go through that problem. So you know who brought you through, so you can remember.

Shay:

But on the other side is the praise, and to me I think I get off more at. Prayer is super important, would always be foundational, but praise takes me to a higher level of spirituality and also just getting through life, like when I'm going through a bad day, I caught on my praise music, I'm shouting and screaming and all that stuff sometimes. But sometimes I'm just sitting there and just listening to the praise and praising God Like, thank you Jesus, thank you for the little things right. The gratitude of it all I mean gratitude can get you through life.

Vanessa:

It really can and if we're focusing on the positives we're not going to focus on the negatives so much or we're going to see that we have more positives than negatives, so all these things do they work hand in hand, and if we can truly put it in God's hands and realize that there is a reason for this exactly, you know, it might be that you know we're put through this because we're going to help somebody else get through it one day yeah, or we're supposed to teach someone something, or we we learn a huge lesson from this, or maybe it's something that we don't even see.

Vanessa:

You know it's going to help somebody 30 years down the road, but there's usually there's always a reason for it. There's always a reason and just knowing that this is not done in vain.

Shay:

Exactly, Putting it in God's hands and letting it go. That's the hardest thing, like to me, it's like if you're constantly praying about the same thing, I feel like that's kind of I've always said this to me personally it's kind of it's kind of disrespectful because it's like, or it's unbelieving, like Lord, okay, and I'm just going to say, lord, I'm praying for this apple next day. Praying for this apple Like God is like all right Che I've heard you Like you just let it go why.

Vanessa:

I brought you four oranges and bananas, right hello right.

Shay:

And then that's that part right there, right, like God's like okay, you keep playing for an apple. I gave you freaking kiwi and pineapple, like Vanessa said, all the oranges, and you keep on praying for the apple, like what is wrong with you. So to me it's like you find good in everything. I mean God uses all that good, bad, everything and different for your good. So so I mean but you know what let's talk about this.

Vanessa:

I mean emotions, and there are people out there who see no other way out other than taking their own lives in this scenario, because they feel like, okay, once I'm gone, this debt is gone and I, you know, don't have to worry about it anymore. My family doesn't have to worry about it. And that is such a a sad, horrible place to be in to feel like there is no other way.

Vanessa:

Yeah, you know you do feel hopeless and you feel like there is no way. And I think sometimes, when you can sit down and you can talk to somebody who understands the financial aspect of it and the behavioral aspect of it and kind of can put those together for you like we do, you can have these conversations and they can help you see the light at the end of the tunnel and where you could be in a year and where you could be in two years and what can come of this and how you can do it in a way that you see the light finally, because that is the most hopeless place to be when you can see absolutely no light.

Shay:

It's so sad, I don't know. I'm thinking of a Phoenix, right when they burn up and it's just ashes and people get so stuck in the ashes and not realizing eventually you're going to be this beautiful Phoenix again, you're going to rise up and see the light, and it just takes time and help and work. I always say sacrifice, self-control, discipline are key to get out of debt. And you know, you got yourself into it. Yeah, it sucks. It really does. Been there, done that, had student loan debt, had car debt, had house debt, had business debt. I've had it and it sucks. And you know.

Shay:

But what God reminded me recently when I was thinking about some debt that I'm dealing with and I was like, wait a minute, but I've gotten through this before. Yeah, this might be more than that, but I've gotten past this before. I paid off debt before. I've been debt free before you know. And this debt that I have now is good debt because it's the growth of business or it's the house. It's not like I'm out here just bending crazy and racking up debt just for no reason. No, it's for growth. There's a purpose behind that debt and God is going to provide. And before I now even try to even obtain any kind of debt. I'm praying, asking God, show me, is this right? Give me guidance before I sign this paper. So as long as you got God in that situation, you can get through it. But then there's an anxiety too. Debt can fuel anxiety and worry. And now you're out here in these streets like how can I pay or how will I pay for my bills, and people are really suffering with this.

Vanessa:

They really are, and I think the big part about this is realizing that debt does not have to be something that you deal with. It's something that we choose to deal with in a lot of ways. So if we can learn from these mistakes, like we've talked about, and have these conversations, I think it always comes back to being willing to talk about it with somebody Exactly and to get it out there, because there are so many people who have anxiety because of the money that is owed.

Shay:

I mean I think a lot, of, a lot of young families face this too, and the breadwinners and those, those families, because it's like, okay, I'm only making this much money and we want to send, you know, this kid to soccer camp this year and this kid's going to be on a whatever team, and those things can just add up and they cause anxiety and they cause worry and then you can't sleep, and then you're working more hours but you're getting less sleep and it just it piles on and piles on, and being able to have these conversations and talk about it can really help it really can, because then from the depression and or anxiety then leads to the guilt and the shame and it's all can be all mixed together and a craziness of it all and then blaming ourselves or themselves for finances or needing assistance with mental health treatment costs.

Shay:

You know, just needing to like understand, like where am I going to get this money? Or I or I need help, or you know, I or I don't want to get help, because then now I'm going to, it's just, it's just an ugly beast.

Vanessa:

It's an ugly cycle. Yeah, it's an ugly cycle.

Shay:

Been there, done that, like, oh man, like how am I going to? I know I need therapists. I got to pay for it. But then my family find out that I have it. They might judge me. Oh my God, if my employer find out about it. They might say I can't do this whatever. And then it's like a lot of this stuff is unreal. It's not even you know. You're making up these stories and it's like people I believe most people will support you through your journey you know Right Right.

Shay:

So, but because of what we see or heard and family members how they react to it and all, it's just, it's just really ugly. It can be. It definitely can be for sure. Yeah, oh man, I mean whoa we're? We're going to go deeper into this, from debt to destiny, because it's a lot and people are really suffering in the world right now with mental health, but they're also suffering with debt and I mean it's probably going to be around forever debt. But we're here to support you. And I have to say we didn't put this in the script, but this is our third season of our podcast, yay, yay. So we're excited to our current listeners, our listeners that always been on board with us from the beginning, but we're excited for all those new listeners that are coming to listen to Yahweh's Money and just to be in another season, but even a third season. We're growing up. We're growing up. We're toddlers now. We're not little babies. We're going to go through our terrible threes. That makes sense. Why Shay's talking her mess these days?

Shay:

because we're in our terrible threes, but I'm excited and I'm just thankful to God for another season. I'm thankful to TJ, our podcast manager, vanessa, and even all those behind the scenes that helped us in the past like to get us where we are. I just, I just wanted to, in this moment, say thank you. So any final thoughts on this episode?

Vanessa:

Yeah, I would just say you know, mental health is something very personal. This episode, yeah. I would just say you know, mental health is something very personal and I would say, if we can just kind of get past the shame and the guilt of having, you know, mental health crisis or awareness, or whatever you want to call it like, we all go through some sort of mental health scenario in our lives, you know. So just be patient, be open and know that therapy is wonderful.

Shay:

I mean I've had a therapist for a few years changed my life. It really is, and it's just, it's necessary. You take care of your body, you take your physical body, you take care of your car, your house, your children, everything. Why not take care of your mind, Hello people? I mean, let's make this normal. Take away the stigma.

Shay:

But, thank you for joining us. Wow, thank you. A big thank you for listening to this episode. We hope you found today's chat about the intersection of religion and money insightful. We would love to hear your feedback.

Vanessa:

Yes, and for the latest Yahweh's Money content, visit us at crusaders4change. org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Until next time, stay financially fit and spiritually inspired.

Shay:

And remember it's always better Yahweh's way.

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Shay Cook

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