Yahweh’s Money®️: The Crossroads of Religion & Money

From Debt To Destiny™: Breaking the Silence on Men's Inner Wars

• Shay Cook & Vanessa McNelley • Season 3 • Episode 56

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The invisible battles of men's PTSD often go unnoticed, yet they cast long shadows over emotional well-being and financial stability. Shay and Vanessa's intimate conversation this episode brings the struggles of men into the spotlight. We share heartfelt personal stories as we navigate the complexities of living with someone fighting PTSD, and how it not only strains the very fabric of relationships but also has a ripple effect on many aspects of life, including one's career and family dynamics.

We also tackle the tough topic of emotional barriers, discussing how societal expectations can pressure men into suffering in silence and the detrimental impact this can have on their personal lives and those of their loved ones. Through candid discussions and sharing of personal experiences, we underscore the importance of seeking help and support. This episode is not just a dialogue but a call to arms to break down the stigma surrounding mental health and to show that true strength lies in the courage to reach out and lay down the burdens that weigh heavily on the shoulders of so many.

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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!

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Lamonte Silver - Owner of essentialmusicclub.com | Previously by ROA - roa-music.com

Shay:

Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money come up? You're not alone. Welcome to Yahweh's Money, the podcast where we tackle the crossroads of faith and finance. I'm Shay Cook, an accredited financial counselor, and the CEO and founder of Crusaders for Change LLC.

Vanessa:

And I'm Vanessa McNelley, accredited financial counselor and COO of Crusaders for Change. Join us on our journey as we discuss topics like tithing saving and conquering debt through religious perspectives. Let's get started.

Shay:

Welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's Money. So last episode we covered women's sleep and health, and this episode is all about the fellas. Okay, Vanessa, are you ready?

Vanessa:

I'm ready and we're not leaving you out this time, we promise boys.

Shay:

So in this episode, Vanessa and I will confront the harsh reality of PTSD in men's health, where statistics unveil a sobering truth, which is this is wow. Around 30% of men who experienced trauma will develop PTSD, and we'll be offering insights and solutions for dealing with overall health and financial stability. Let's get right on into the journey of healing, recovery and overall resilience. So, starting with the word, as always, thank you, lord, for the word Matthew 11, 28 through 30. Come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Wow, jesus here offers us an invitation to find rest and relief from burdens, suggesting that following him can lead to a lighter load and greater peace of mind. Amen, that's the word, right there.

Vanessa:

That's wonderful, and I think it's nice to kind of put this into perspective with men too. Men feel like they have to be, you know, manly and you know machismo and all this, and it's like it's okay to lay things down and it's okay to have this. You know this humbleness and this gentleness about you, so I love that. That's wonderful.

Shay:

I do too, and you know you're so right Cause I know my brother says something profound recently.

Vanessa:

He was like you know, just because.

Shay:

I'm getting help. Doesn't make me weak. I'm like you're right, you getting help makes you strong, exactly. I mean, I'm proud of that, and it's sad that men feel like that.

Vanessa:

I know it's awful, I hate it too. I hate it too. You know, today we're talking about something I think you and I know a little too much about PTSD with men and you know both of us have a background with military and we have seen a lot of PTSD in our day, you know, and it can include some intrusive memories, avoidance of people and places. There's mood changes. I mean outburst, irritability, reckless behavior. You know I had this in my household for years my ex-husband. He had PTSD and would not get help and it was I.

Vanessa:

It was a horrible household to live in during those years because all of these things happened. You know we would go to the theater and you know we would have to leave five minutes in because he couldn't handle having his back exposed. We would go to, you know, a friend's wedding and there was too much noise going on inside where everybody was dancing, so we'd have to go sit outside for an hour and wait for, you know, cake or whatever that might be. You know there were mood changes there. There were angry outbursts.

Vanessa:

I remember he used to tell me how lazy I was all the time, just scream at me that I was lazy and I was thinking, dude, I'm like working full time, I'm a full time grad school student, you know, I have a side hustle business, I'm running the household. Oh yeah, I'm a volunteer with the military as well, and you know, and it was all these things, and just you know, he was irritable all the time. You know, whatever he did didn't matter. So it could be very reckless, you know, because adrenaline was something he had kind of thrived on for those years before. So there are so many things that can impact PTSD and there are the side effects of it.

Shay:

Have you had a lot of experience with that yeah. Outside of the home. I would say more working at Walter Reed and dealing with the service members coming back from OIF and OEF, coming back from the Afghanistan and Iraqi war and seeing experience that having to be in offices with the call button in case the service member who had TBI traumatic brain injury or PTSD would just pop off in a moment's notice, right, and of course my brother suffers from it. But I think that's beyond that, you know.

Shay:

I think I mean my husband had talked from him growing up in Baltimore City and dealing with all the crime and just even the violence and stuff in your home has caused PTSD in men and women, but noticing that it's not just from war, right, it could have been from the neighborhood you grew up in, it could be from the household, the trauma in the household and just dealing with an abusive husband or wife or whatever, usually husband. Unfortunately all of that can cause PTSD, right, and so all of this behavior unfortunately I've experienced and unfortunately I feel men that I have dealt with don't want to admit to it because unfortunately I've experienced and unfortunately I feel men that I have dealt with don't want to admit to it because again it shows that weakness and it's really sad because, like no, you got to get help. You know, in order to move forward and do excellent things in your life, you have to get help for those issues.

Vanessa:

You do and you know that. You're completely right. You know I think most of my experience is military or working, like you said, with with military too. But there are so many things in our lives that can cause PTSD, especially for men, or even like survivors. You know remorse because you were able to get out and you were able to get through certain things. You know that can cause a lot of issues too and it can really impact, you know, your mental health, as you were saying.

Vanessa:

You know I've had a situation in the past where I was actually pinned behind my desk by a service member at one point who had done a bunch of research on my family and literally said to me how would you feel if your husband didn't come home tonight? I know he likes to work with bombs and you're like how do these people like and I know it's not him and I know it's not you know normal, normal way of thinking. But these things happen. You know it can impact your physical health. It can cause chronic pain, autoimmune disorders. My ex-husband developed Crohn's disease after you know he was diagnosed with PTSD. You know depression, anxiety. I think PTSD is just the tip of the iceberg here.

Shay:

Yes, it is.

Vanessa:

There's so much more underlying issues that can just impact every area of your life when you're dealing with this especially as a man.

Shay:

Yeah, and I know just even I remember working at again Walter Reed is my I guess most recent experience that I had around military, with having PTSD and all these other things going on coming back from the war, losing limbs and so forth and and dealing with financial stress too, and then I remember a couple of people had committed suicide because they, they just just was like I can't anymore, you know, and it's just really sad and for many other reasons. I remember every other week even working with the coast guard dealing with service members, uh, committing suicide over ptsd, you know, financial issues and such, and it just it's really sad and I think it comes down to that, like I said, that loneliness and isolation, right, it's just like they feel like they can't get help, they don't want to say anything because we paint the picture for decades, centuries, that the man is supposed to be this.

Vanessa:

And if they are?

Shay:

sharing any of that, then they're weak, they're a girl, they're you know, they're a punk. Oh my God, this is what I've heard all my life from my dad to my brother and from other men. It's just like, wow. And then can you? I can't, because I've never had that told to me constantly. Because I'm a woman, because they already look at us weak, right, right. But as a man, being constantly told that you're weak or you're a punk or you're not this, and that that that's got to take a significant toll on you mentally, it does.

Vanessa:

It does Because it's like you're not allowed to have feelings you know, I know You're not allowed to have emotions. You're not allowed to have feelings. You know your feelings are invalid because you're just supposed to be able to do it.

Vanessa:

Just do it, you know. I mean, I heard so often suck it up and drive on. Yeah, you know you just deal with it and it is what it is and it doesn't matter if it hurts, it doesn't matter if you're having a bad day, it doesn't matter if this is bringing up trauma. You know you are a man, deal with it. And I wish men could see how damaging that is to other relationships that they're going to have later on in their lives, Because I think a lot of us as women, you know we are nurturers, we love to, you know to comfort people and have conversations and try to be there. But if you are with somebody who is just stonewalling everything, it can make you feel very small and and not very important to that person, which they think they're protecting you from it because that's what they've been taught.

Vanessa:

Is I need? To deal with this without you, because I'm protecting you from this trauma. Because you are a delicate flower, you know, or whatever that they may be thinking. But that does include so much loneliness and isolation on the other end, because you're taught to not bring it up to anyone, not talk about it, deal with it, which means you deal with it alone.

Shay:

Yeah. Or you bury it, and then that's where the drinking and the spending and the porn and all those other things that people that I hear that men are using to get through all of that, and that stuff starts to add up and cost you money, a lot of money, because you're like, oh well, I might as well go drink or eat or you know whatever my vice is and that usually has a price tag financially and mentally and physically.

Vanessa:

And you try, yeah, you try to buy things to feel better, you know.

Shay:

I remember, yeah, my ex-husband.

Vanessa:

He started doing that and it was like all of a sudden he'd come home with like these new gadgets, because he was a gadget guy. And it was like all of a sudden he'd come home with like these new gadgets, cause he was a gadget guy, and it was like one day he'd spent a thousand dollars on you know a new computer system. The next day he'd come home with like video games, and then the next day he'd come home with you know, something else or something for outdoors, cause he enjoyed that too. But it was always something, you know, always something to try to fill that, that void, that space, and it does. It creates this distance between you and your family and your partner and whoever that is too, because you were trying to, you know, make this go away on its own, which it's obviously not.

Vanessa:

Um you know, sometimes you do turn to uh, to substances. I know I came home one day and my ex-husband did not drink he did not drink at all. And I found him sitting on the floor crying one day. And my ex-husband did not drink he did not drink at all. And I found him sitting on the floor crying one day with a bottle of Jack in his hand.

Shay:

Oh, my God.

Vanessa:

And it's like what do you do when you find these things and these? You know you're, you know, you're told you're a man, you're told to deal with it. You're told you might lose your job. You're told you know your, your spouse will not respect you or whatever you're told and you're trying to deal with this and it just causes more problems. You know, with all these relationships and I wish that you know when you're in the thick of it you could see these things.

Vanessa:

But, you're just surrounded by that loneliness and the emotional barriers and all those things. Yeah.

Shay:

My God, it's a lot.

Vanessa:

It's a lot, yeah, and it can really impact motivation in a negative way and cause loss of promotion. You know job, all these things I mean. I went through this with him. He was up for major and he was asked to submit paperwork early because they would do below zone. It's like a year ahead of schedule zone and then post zone. So he was asked to submit paperwork a year early to have an early promotion and day of you know photographs, cause you have to have those beautiful military photos Didn't have all the uh, the awards for his uniform. He didn't give a crap less, he could care less. And I'm like you're impacting the entire family because loss of promotion could mean that okay, if you don't get it this time, you don't get it next time, they can say adios, we don't need you anymore.

Vanessa:

And that's what actually happened. Oh, wow. So you know, there's things that you know that really impact your entirety of life and your family, and it's so hard to see because you're in the trenches.

Shay:

In the trenches.

Vanessa:

Yeah.

Shay:

Yeah, I've heard those stories countless of times with the military but also just outside in the civilian world, that you know men and they just give up, you know, and they just stay in there and they're just stuck. You know, I remember going through a whole training on about getting unstuck and how people get stuck. You know, I remember going through a whole training on about getting unstuck and how people get stuck in their mind, mentally, physically, even spiritually, and just are not like you said, that loss of motivation, and you know, then there's debt coming in and then your spouse or kids are looking at you like Daddy you know what's going on Like we're still in the same space that we're here, we haven't been able to have any trips together or whatever the fun things. You know it impacts the whole family and so you know and it's really sad how it really affects men and then there's like a lot of barriers to treatment right, because, first of all, in America, and probably in the world, there's stigma of asking for help.

Shay:

You know, this is dish, dish-ish I'm so I'm over it, I'm over it.

Vanessa:

I'm over it.

Shay:

Like. Why are we still like? Why is there still a stigma to asking for help? Why?

Vanessa:

Why? Especially for men, especially for men, especially for men, especially for men.

Shay:

But I even meet women, but yeah, this is about men today, but especially for men. Like it's okay, I wish again make it sexy getting help. You're stronger, getting help. Yeah, because you cannot do it alone. Yeah, and it's just the societal expectations of men. It's just to me is ridiculous. Be strong, act like a man, you're fine. Like you said, just get up, suck it up.

Vanessa:

Yeah, you know, suck it up like you up Like you're a man.

Shay:

You're a man. I heard that recently with my dad and my brother like he's a man and all this I'm like okay, but he can. He can go to therapy Like it's okay to go get a therapist, it's okay to talk to somebody and go to rehab. It's okay to whatever you need to get help with.

Vanessa:

Yeah.

Shay:

Whatever, as long as it's healthy.

Vanessa:

I know, I know I had a therapist for a while and he did these really awesome men's retreats.

Vanessa:

And it was like yeah, and you had to be invited and they would go out in the woods and they would camp for like four days and they would do these hiking trips and it was very like you know, grr manly stuff that they would do, but while they were sitting at the campfire at night. That was time to open up and have these conversations when you are in the middle of the woods with these people you will never see again and you know, and it gives you that ability to be a little bit more vulnerable, especially because you're around other people who've been told the same thing you have been told your whole life. Yeah, so maybe being able to have these communication, uh, you know, sessions with people that are like-minded, that's a great starting point with all this too. You know, to talk to other men who grew up like you grew up and and have the same background stories that you have, and that will kind of help, kind of lead the way to making it more streamlined to have the conversations with everybody.

Shay:

Exactly, and let's just open up and have those conversations. I hear more churches and religious institutions are doing that to bring in men together to men's groups to buy a memo Bible. And you know I'm hearing that instead of them just only talking about the Bible. Of course they talk about the word and stuff, but they're talking about real issues. So whatever it is talking, you know, if you're in the military, you know there's plenty of resources there, but definitely talking to people.

Shay:

But let's not go back to how this all, if you're stuck, if you're not getting help and you're just stuck in a mental just craziness and you're not dealing with your issues, those can have financial constraints to your household. You know, because you're adding more debt, as we talked about earlier, you're not making more money, because you're not getting promoted or you're losing promotions or you're getting fired or whatever your situation might be, that causes financial constraints. And if you, you know, and even if they were to come to talk to us, you know our financial counselors you still have to deal with that, the back, the foundational issues that are going on. Usually there's underlying issues.

Vanessa:

Right, and you know and we've seen this over and over again with clients and you know you're trying to make headway and they're ready to have more conversations, or they're taking that step of talking to a financial counselor to get some help, and yet they've not dealt with the other things. Like you're saying, you have to deal with the other things too. It has to go hand in hand. You have to be ready to make the changes, because if you're still dealing with the, you know make the changes. Because if you're still dealing with the, you know the sadness that's causing you to, you know to to buy, you know, a new game every week and and eat out every day because you don't feel like cooking or whatever it might be, then you're not ready to deal with the, the financial implications either.

Vanessa:

So you have to be able to say I'm okay without these things because I found other ways to self-soothe, but it all goes hand in hand and then if you're dealing with this and you have a partner, like you were saying earlier, you kind of have to be on the same page too to kind of deal with these things, and you have to be able to open up to your partner and have these conversations.

Vanessa:

So it all kind of comes back to being willing to be vulnerable. And I think that is the hardest part about this when, as a man, you've been told for so long that that is not okay. Yeah, it's not okay to be who you're supposed to be, and I don't know what that feels like, you know, for for men I'm sure it is just it's exhausting. And you know the things that you're told are important are. You know you're supposed to be a provider and you know you take care of that Exactly, you take care of the household in that manner. You know you have a partner to kind of handle the emotional side of things, but you are there to be the rock, and sometimes you can't be the rock and that is okay too, and it's okay okay to know when it's okay to step down or to say I need you to kind of help me.

Shay:

Let me lean on you for a little bit, you know I took the words out my mouth I was gonna say lean in on me, lean on me as your spouse like that's what this is a partnership, even though my husband doesn't like me. Just to say that we're a man, we're a white, you know husband and Okay, but it's also a partnership. We have to lean on each other. There's many times in the last 25 years of my marriage, that my husband's like.

Vanessa:

I can't tell you everything because I'm a man.

Shay:

No, no, no. I don't want to hear that anymore. Tell me what is going on in your brain in your mind. Tell me what's going on at work with your family, whatever. I want to know what's bothering you. I want to know what's hurting you because we need to share that together.

Vanessa:

Right, and I think a lot of times men think, oh well, you're going to leave me if you think that I'm weak. Exactly it's like when you're even more sexy. If you tell me Right, Right, and if we know what the triggers might be, as a partner we can help diffuse those before they get to you you know, just like they do for us. You know cause there are emotional support too.

Shay:

Why can't we do it together Right?

Vanessa:

Agree a hundred percent and I've heard that over and over again from men of different backgrounds and different walks and it's like it is okay to share. It is okay when you feel comfortable with somebody enough to you know, have a partnership or get married or bring a child into this world, whatever that is, you know you need to be able to be a little bit more vulnerable with that person because there is a connection there and if it's the right person, that connection is not going to be lost.

Shay:

If you do open up. Because I know I always ask my husband about when he's talking to his guy friends, that they come over here or to the house or at work, and I'm like what are you guys are talking about? They're always talking about high level stuff. I'm like y'all need to be talking about your emotions, like your mental health issues, not just bourbon or shoes or sports or women, like I need, because I'll be asking some deep questions. He's like we don't talk about that. I'm like what you should be? Avoidance, yeah, avoidance.

Vanessa:

Avoidance. Oh my goodness, but then we're going to be seen as the naggy women telling them what to do, right, yeah?

Shay:

exactly. I think there's some hope for the new generation. They seem to be, even though you know, the old men are saying the young men, they're all soft, you know? No, they're not. They're vulnerable. They're transparent. They're sharing their emotions. They're transparent, they're sharing their emotions. I love that. I agree and I heard from my brother like the young ones coming in military they're just like. So you know, soft I'm like, but I think that's good To an extent. What's wrong?

Vanessa:

with that To an extent, I think, with men and women, though, you know you need to be able to kind of figure life out and get through life. But you can do that with help. But when you just can't, then there's a problem. There's a problem with that too. But you know there's some other things that can help us too. I think getting healthy can really help, especially for men see themselves more, as you know, as a, as a strong, a strong man. And this is a good way to see yourself as a strong man because you are getting regular exercise. That can help, you know it's reducing symptoms of anxiety and depression because you're feeling better about yourself, and that is a good way to kind of see yourself as a man, you know, yeah, and exercise, you know it releases endorphins. So you know, there's so many things that we can do to make us feel better and look better and be more of who we want to be. That can impact the whole package.

Shay:

Yeah, exercise is really a notice for men in my life, for my dad who doesn't exercise much but he did a lot growing up and then my husband and brother. When they're in the gym or at home, wherever they're doing, they're getting exercise and they seem to be in a better mood, and so do I. I think that's just humans. If we're not just laying around getting all fat and eating crazy, we are better. Our bodies are meant to move.

Shay:

Not only just for work, but for us to make sure we keep it healthy and strong and lean, and that's very, very important for all of us as humans. But when you're going through all of those issues financially, spiritually, mentally, physically you need to be exercising to push you through.

Vanessa:

You do, even though it's hard, it's hard.

Shay:

It's very hard. It's hard enough to get out of bed with those things, yeah exactly.

Vanessa:

But yeah, and then our proper diet too. If we're just sitting here eating pizza and burgers every day, what do you think is going to happen? You?

Shay:

are what you eat. You're eating that pizza and stuff.

Vanessa:

That stuff is greasy, it's going to feel greasy If it's fatty, it's going to feel fatty, and I talk about my grandpa a lot and I will tell you so he had and this goes a little deeper than mental. So this was a physical element but he had stage four cancer about 30 years ago and he was told to go home, get his affairs in order and he did not do that and obviously he is still here and he had pancreatic cancer, which is a, you know, a doozy, especially back then. And he changed the way he ate and he was already a mess sergeant in the military. So he knew about, you know, healthy eating and he was prepared with all this. But that man started eating Brussels sprouts and broccoli every day and doing greens, greens, greens and a year after that you wouldn't have even known he had cancer.

Shay:

Wow, and he's 96 now he's 96.

Vanessa:

Absolutely, that's a beautiful story. Yeah, 96 years old, still eats exactly the way we are supposed to eat. He loves his sweets and he loves his chocolate, but he knows how to do that in moderation. Yeah, yeah, but that is just a testament to what proper diet can do to your body. It can make a difference.

Shay:

I've been eating whole foods for five months now man and I, just just after our event we had on Saturday, I had a couple of pieces of cake and after that I'm like, oh, I just didn't feel right. And I was like, oh, my God it makes. And it was only like two or three pieces. I had two cupcakes and two pieces of cake and so, having that, I was like, oh, I just felt like Ew. I miss my spinach, and so I've been trying to, I've been adding even more spinach to my smoothies and eat more vegetables because it just perks you up.

Shay:

Your body's just like, oh yay, good food, healthy food. And when you give them cake and stuff, yeah, that sugar is addictive.

Vanessa:

But then it's like ew, what are you doing to me?

Shay:

My body's really been and I've been listening to my body like, yeah, my body's telling me no, shay can't be eating all this mess.

Vanessa:

It's crazy when you eat, you know healthy-esque or healthy-ish for a bit that when you do these things that you normally did before, it's just like whoa, stop, wait a minute.

Shay:

Like I don't like this.

Vanessa:

I don't like what's happening. You know, like limiting our alcohol and you know our sugar and our caffeine intake. I know the same thing that night because I had a piece of cake that night and I went back and I was like I'm so glad I ordered a salad.

Shay:

I was so happy to have a salad. Me too, I ate my salad at 1 am, but still I was happy too. That salad was so perfect, to kind of balance it all, exactly, exactly.

Vanessa:

So, and since then, because that's what we do too, is we buy a lot of whole foods and we, you know, cook from scratch and we make things out of, you know, whole ingredients versus something that has a list. But once you do that for a while, these other things, like sure I do enjoy, you know, chicken tenders every now and again. But you know, if you were to do that day after day. I would feel so gross.

Shay:

Oh, my God.

Vanessa:

Yeah, but you know, if you're feeding your body what it needs, especially as a man, to get stronger and to grow, and to you know, I think it just makes you feel more like what you tell yourself you're supposed to feel like, too, on the outside. So all these things can help. And then having those conversations with God and praying and remembering that it's okay to ask for help, which takes time, as we know but we can put our lives in his hands and he will do amazing things and he will do more than we could have ever done alone. Or saying that we are a man and we should just be. You know handling things ourselves. If we trust in God and we say we're giving this life to you because it's his already, there's so much more you can do with us and we don't even know what that could be.

Vanessa:

Don't even know what that can be.

Shay:

Don't even know what that can be. It's like feed yourself the word, feed yourself God, and you can do that too. Like, yeah, God is a key, important piece, at least in my life and I believe in millions of other people's life. However you serve, it's like having that foundational spirit is very, very important, and so I always say start from there and work yourself down. I always start with that God, myself, family. Everything else comes after that. So, like you got to have priorities in order to Exactly.

Vanessa:

Exactly. And then you know. The other part about that is, you know, finding people to have these conversations with. Like we said before, finding people to have these conversations with. Like we said before, we're here and we will help you implement those things too, because we believe in God as well, so we can have those conversations together and we can listen and just kind of see where you're at and I think, a lot of men too. It's hard to talk to a woman about these things, but know that we have been on both ends of this and we've seen from our own families and we've seen from other clients how this works and we will never judge you. We will never, ever judge you and our job is to help you see that it could get better Wherever you're at right now. That is our job.

Shay:

Wherever you're at Crusades for Change, financial Counselors will meet you where you are.

Shay:

You know, my husband and I were talking about it the last couple weeks ago about what is the philosophy of C4C like comparing us to some of the name people out there that I ain't going to name, but I was like it's, you know, just really having this accreditation is teaching us how, obviously looking at the behaviors behind money and all that helping people get to where they are, but meeting them where they are Right. And so he's like that's your philosophy. It's like I never thought about it like that. It's just meeting people where they are to help them achieve what they want to achieve. We're not trying to tell you what you need, what you want. You come to us, you tell us and we're going to tell you. You know, this is how we plan this, we map this out for you.

Shay:

And we can help you hold yourself accountable and all that other stuff. But yeah, we're really here to help you with all of that and you know this is our last episode of this series From Debt to Destiny, and I'm sure we'll do it again in the future. But you know, we really are really just wanting to help people go from debt to destiny. Exactly that destiny looks very different for everybody. It does.

Shay:

You know, because, as I learned, some debt is necessary. You it does, you know, because, as I learned, some debt is necessary. You know you may not be able to be 100% debt free, but you know I'm sure there's other goals, whether it's saving, you know, traveling, being able to buy this house, whatever it may be, retire early, retire later and just have fun, whatever that is. We're here to help you figure out that destiny. But, yeah, we want to get you out of that debt so you don't feel so weighed down. And men, even though their spouse, may, you know, we talked about in our last episode women might feel responsible for that. Men feel responsible too.

Vanessa:

Sometimes they're just like I don't know what to do. They feel like they're not giving enough. Sometimes, too, I think.

Shay:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

Like they can't provide enough, you know. But yeah, we can definitely have those conversations and talk about, you know, that destiny that's there, and you know we're here, we're absolutely here.

Shay:

That was great. Any final thoughts?

Vanessa:

Just I would say, if you are a man, find another man to talk to. I think it's going to be a little bit easier to have those conversations first with another man, and especially find a pastor, find a therapist or counselor or just a good buddy that you can trust. Find somebody that you know you can trust with your secrets and you know that they'll be safe, and that will help you see that this world is so much bigger than you could ever imagine and there's so many things out there that you can be that is not, you know, machismo, manly, and being that and everything else can help you be a better man altogether. You know when you can open up and work through these things, and that will teach your sons a different story too.

Shay:

Exactly, and I would say seek God first and then, like Vanessa's saying, I always say, have an older person, older man and a younger man that can be in your corner there, because you can learn a lot from the wise one and the older, the older man, but the young ones out here have some wisdom too. So thank you for joining us today. A big thank you for listening to this episode. We hope you found today's chat about the intersection of religion and money insightful. We would love to hear your feedback. Hit that subscribe button or follow the podcast and please feel free to leave us a review.

Vanessa:

Yes, and for the latest Yahweh's Money content, visit us at Crusaders4change. org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Until next time, stay financially fit and spiritually inspired.

Shay:

And remember it's always better Yahweh's way.

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Shay Cook

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