Yahweh’s Money®️: The Crossroads of Religion & Money

Helping or Enabling: Which is Which?

• Shay Cook & Vanessa McNelley • Season 3 • Episode 70

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When does helping a loved one become enabling, and how do we strike the right balance? Shay Cook and Vanessa McNelley dive into this profound question as they share personal experiences and insights from their journey as financial counselors. Through the lens of scripture, such as Matthew 7:6, they explore the fine line between financial generosity that reflects love and the risk of fostering dependency. Vanessa shares a story about her brother, illustrating the delicate dynamics that play out in family relationships and the importance of setting boundaries while maintaining faith.

Breaking generational stigmas around self-care, especially within immigrant families, is critical in their discussion. They tackle cultural and gender norms that often pressure individuals to prioritize others’ needs over their own, sometimes to their detriment. By advocating for open communication within families, they aim to shift perceptions surrounding money management and self-care. Highlighting the sacrifices many make, especially women, they emphasize that personal well-being is crucial not only for oneself but for the benefit of everyone around them. Through this dialogue, they call for a cultural shift towards embracing personal growth and financial understanding.

They also confront the complexities of saying no and the role of accountability. Drawing from personal anecdotes and cultural examples, they highlight how constantly saying yes can create cycles of dependency. This episode underscores the necessity of financial literacy and responsible behavior. By promoting education on budgeting and financial planning, they empower their listeners to foster self-sufficiency and build a sustainable financial future. If you’re ready to transform your approach to helping others and learn how financial literacy can lead to healthier relationships, then this conversation is a must-listen.

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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!

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Shay:

Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money come up? You're not alone. Welcome to Yahweh's Money, the podcast where we tackle the crossroads of faith and finance. I'm Shay Cook, an Accredited Financial Counselor, and the CEO and founder of Crusaders for Change LLC.

Vanessa:

And I'm Vanessa McNelley, Accredited Financial Counselor and COO of Crusaders for Change. Join us on our journey as we discuss topics like tithing, saving, and conquering debt through religious perspectives. Let's get started.

Shay:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's Money. Hey, Vanessa, how are you today? I am good. How are you, Shay? I'm good. I'm excited to talk about helping or enabling. I think we talk about this a lot in many conversations you and I have had over the years, but in family it can get deep and crazy sometimes because we all do it.

Vanessa:

Right, and I think you and I have a lot of experience in this realm too.

Shay:

Well y'all, in this episode titled Helping and Enabling, which is which we're delving into a tricky question when does helping someone turn into enabling? We'll explore how our financial generosity and support can reflect God's love, but also when it might cross a line into fostering dependency or even enabling poor choices. Through scripture, personal insight and practical advice will help you discern how to give wisely and responsibly, while honoring your own boundaries and faith. So let's figure out how to help others without hurting them or ourselves in this process. So here's a stark reminder from Matthew 7, 6. Do not give dogs what is sacred. Do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces. Oh, my goodness. This verse encourages us to use our best judgment about when and how to give. Wow, that's a lot.

Vanessa:

Yeah, and that's a great visual too, honestly.

Shay:

Because it really matters.

Vanessa:

You know who we give what to because they see it as something great or something not so. I think that's a really good reminder from the beginning. Yeah, but first, what's the difference? What's the difference in helping and enabling no-transcript example of someone who's enabling somebody else? And I think we go through this a lot with our own families and then a lot with our clients.

Shay:

We do we do and I know I've. I'm guilty of enabling a lot, and you know when you're coming. When I was coming up and I was younger, I enabled a lot because I didn't know any better. I didn't know the difference. I don't even think I knew what enabling meant. I think I learned that in therapy or something like you're enabling, or my husband may have said it, but then you start to realize like yeah, I'm really not helping these people. They are, we are, like it says, continuing. They are continuing harmful behaviors. We are too. If we're constantly helping somebody or enabling somebody and not helping them with the goal to empower them, that's, it can be really tricky, as we stated already.

Vanessa:

It really is. And if you think about that verse again and you think about something that we've worked so, so hard for, and if we're giving it to somebody, as you know, as as helping and just a temporary gift, you know they might see it the same way we do. But if it's something that they're getting all the time, you know they're going to see it as nothing and it's just another handout, some more money. Oh, it's nothing to this person. But the reality of it is it can be something that's really special or sacred to us that we're giving up.

Shay:

That is so true. And that could be anything right Time, money and just yeah, plenty of stories. I would love to hear a story before we move on and you enabling somebody there's so many stories.

Vanessa:

We all know the good story about a Jeep that I purchased for oh my God, was that really? Enabling. I don't know if that was enabling or not but, I think I've. I've gone above and beyond quite a few times in my life and not known where to kind of stop and set those boundaries. I think that's been one of my big problems is the boundaries.

Shay:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

But I know, growing up I have a brother that I don't really talk about a lot and you know we grew up in the same household, we have the same parents, but my entire life it was poor little brother's name and that's how he was referred to.

Vanessa:

So it was Vanessa and poor little brother which I think really led to this enabling of, you know, my parents and my grandparents and everyone around him, because it automatically put this picture in your head that there was something sad or he needed extra or needed more. And you know, to this day it's been a situation where it's been an enablement, versus being able to just help and let go, and it's turned into something that's been expected his entire life. So that's been something that I've dealt with on the outside, kind of watching, but it's yeah, yeah. But when you can add those words in you know, poor little so-and-so, or bless their heart, or those words that we say, I think it automatically puts a picture in our head of, oh, they need something and oh, it's not their fault and oh, they're going to do better next time.

Shay:

And that's not always the case that is so true, and especially you and I being the oldest, that plays a lot into it too. We just come into this world as oldest, older children, having this responsibility, and then you're there to take care and support your young siblings. And then, as you get older and you maybe you start working first, making more money first. Whatever situation may be, you've always been in that caretaker, parental role and that carries on until adulthood and then they continue to use it. It's like hold up, I'm not your parent, you got other parents, but you also need to learn from this because you are growing up and becoming an adult.

Shay:

And that's where I say it's definitely been a boundaries problem for me. I didn't know. I've always been that second mama to my sister and brother. And then, even when your parents start asking you for money which I've gone through that too it's like wow. You know, everybody thinks Shay is responsible, and I know I shared this before. I had to close down the bank of Shay, like over a decade ago, because it was constantly people asking me for money, not even family, some even friends just oh, I'm in a bad position, Can you help me pay my electric, Can you help me pay this? And it's like okay, after a while that you have to take responsibility, so it's not my responsibility to take care of you Exactly and it turns into something that is not just a one-off.

Vanessa:

It turns into an expectation.

Shay:

Yes.

Vanessa:

And I really think that's where that enabling comes into play is when it's an expectation.

Vanessa:

It's like, oh well, I'm still going to buy these shoes because so-and-so will help me with my power bill. And it's finding that person that will feel sorry for us or help us because they have extra, and we're like, oh, it's okay, they've got it, it's not a big deal to them. When the reality of it is, it is a big deal and it should be a big deal. And it's one of those situations where you're not able to to grow up and be able to handle your own situation. And I always say you know, I think we have a lot of clients that do this with their kids and it's like what's going to happen one day when you're not there? Yeah, what is going to happen? Because you've not taught them how to provide and take care of themselves, and when you're not there, all of a sudden, there's going to be no backup plan.

Shay:

Exactly that's what my husband says to my daughter all the time. We need to prepare our daughter for when we're not here, you know. And so, yeah, she might be able to fall back on us now, but even now it's like no, you need to figure it out. You're of age, you're finally you're working, you know and all that, and eventually you're going to have to move out and take care of yourself. But if dad and I pass away, you know, and when we, you know, you'll be able to take care of yourself.

Vanessa:

Exactly, and that is such a gift you can give your kids. It is a huge gift. And you know, I still think there's so much stigma around financial struggles, so much stigma and culturally too, it discourages us from actually having those conversations and talking about those struggles and that can lead to repeatedly asking for private help. We know the person we can go to. We don't have to say anything to anybody else.

Vanessa:

Nobody else has to know. But we don't talk about these things, and if we would talk about them we'd realize other people are having the same struggles.

Shay:

Everybody's having some kind of struggle, yeah. And we can learn from each other.

Vanessa:

We really can.

Shay:

This is when I this point is so amazing because, even though my mom, I'm going to put my parents on blast, but as I always do in these episodes, you know there are certain people in my family that can't keep, can't hold water, as they would say back in the day. So they, you tell them something about and they're like you know, someone stole that and asked me for money, this and that you know. So it was never really private, which is sad, uh, on that part. But on the other end, you're like no, we should all be talking about this. We should sit down and say, okay, what is the problem? How do you?

Shay:

Do you need to learn how to manage money? Do you need need to be bad with credit, whatever, savings, whatever? We need to be having these conversations and I don't know why we have the stigma. I do know why we're not going to talk about it on here, but there's some systemic or systematic issues around that. But still, yeah, it could be a lot, and stigma is real in a lot of different areas, not only money, but that's why people are committing suicide. They lose hope, I mean, the list goes on.

Vanessa:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And if we would have these conversations, you know, we might have some more accountability there too, because everybody kind of knows and it's like well, you know, I don't want them judging me, but I could use a little extra nudge sometimes, like well, should you be going out to eat? Or you know those type of things and we can be accountability for each other.

Vanessa:

And having somebody to walk through that with is amazing, even if they don't have to. If somebody chooses to walk through that with you and do things the way, you're having to do them. You know, I got a million dollars. I bought a house, a car.

Shay:

What about all the stuff you had to do to get up to all of the hard work? I know when Nate and I bought our first house, our family was like, oh my God, how can they afford this? Or why did they do this, you know, and not even how can we afford the house. But all the stuff that we did afterwards and it's like we hard for this we saved. You know that, and I hated having to state that over and over because it's like oh, it was just handed to us. No, it wasn't like.

Vanessa:

I worked for this, yeah, and people don't see that. They don't see those. You know those things, just like you were saying, and they don't see that. You know you stayed at home six nights that week and they don't see that. You know you clip coupons and you did all these things behind the scenes. You know that's nobody's business. Honestly.

Shay:

Yeah, but it's a sacrifice and discipline and self-control that you have to have in order to achieve these great things. Exactly.

Vanessa:

And everything that you have to work for it's going to require some kind of sacrifice.

Shay:

Yep Some kind of sacrifice yeah.

Vanessa:

And then, you know, also helping in a lot of times is, you know, it's a, it's a cultural norm for a lot of people and it may be your duty rather than a choice. And this happens in a lot of cultures, but especially in Latin American cultures, in Asian and South Asian cultures those are the biggest cultures that have this as part of it. But I think to an extent, a lot of, a lot more cultures have this, where it's expected that you give and sometimes you're expected to take everyone else's needs into account before your own. And I think we see that a lot of times when we have immigrants who come to the U? S and the family automatically thinks, ooh, they're going to be rich, you know, they got all this money coming in, but they forget and they don't understand how much it costs to live here. I mean gosh.

Vanessa:

I had a client one time. Um, he was from Kenya and he came over with his wife and his two children um military personnel and he would not eat dinner at night, so he had enough money to send home to his family, and that is a sacrifice to not be able to feed yourself, so you can send money back to your family so they can have nice things.

Vanessa:

And it wasn't even just to feed his family, it was so they could have nice things. And the family never saw that sacrifice and they just thought, oh, he can afford it, he can afford that. But the reality of it is is, sometimes people are put in those positions where there's no choice, it's just an expectation.

Shay:

And I would add, not only a cultural norm, but also a I guess maybe a sexist or sex gender norm is females. Women, we put a lot of things, we are taught like you come second, third, fourth. You take care of your family, your community, everything else. Then you take care of yourself. So I know, even having my child, I remember my grandmother like why are you going to get your hair done? Why are you going to buy no clothes and stuff? Like I was wearing old stuff and doing it because it was all about taking care of my child at the time. Like it took me two to three years to understand. Like it ain't just about her, like you need to take care of yourself too. But that's what I saw my mother do, other mothers do. They put themselves last in a lot of situations, not only in motherhood, but in partnerships and jobs and things. List goes on. And so, yeah, it's a gender norm as well.

Vanessa:

Yeah, and it's really harmful when you come into that place where you realize what you've been doing and you kind of wake up and it's like, well, wait a minute, it's okay to take care of me, it's okay to feel like I'm important because if you take care of yourself, you are a better version of yourself for everyone else, and we forget that. We really forget that and I find myself kind of falling back in those roles often.

Vanessa:

You really forget that and I find myself kind of falling back in those roles often, often, because it's a hard cycle to break.

Shay:

It is really hard If you've been doing it all your life. It's so hard. But it feels so good to have self-care and take care of yourself. But then I feel guilty, exactly, exactly, because I'm like, why am I taking care of Shay? I got to do this, I got to do that, like my brain goes crazy because I'm so used to it. So we need to get out of that stigma. That it's not. You know, self-care shouldn't be stigmatized. I mean it should be. It's healthy to have self-care, it's okay to be selfish every once in a while and it's okay to buy things for yourself.

Shay:

Yes, exactly.

Vanessa:

And it's okay to have nice things. And it's okay to you know, to prioritize your own family versus your extended family and all these other things, and it's okay to say no to people.

Shay:

And we forget that too. No is a complete sentence. I had to tell one of our clients recently no is a complete sentence, you don't have to explain it. No reasons, no excuses, Just like no, thank you, I'm good. And what about all the emotional factors? I think we're kind of already talking about it but, like the obligation that it comes with, givers feel compelled to help, especially when the recipient is a loved one. I know I've struggled with that because when I see a loved one, whether it's my immediate, my family, my family, origin, extended I don't like to see people struggle, you know. But I know my husband, especially when it comes to our daughter, he's like she needs to struggle, she needs to learn that. You know, sometimes life doesn't work out. A lot of times it doesn't work out the way you want to. So I have to. It's hard for us givers not wanting, and we feel it, we feel an obligation.

Vanessa:

We do and you know, with that too, when we have, you know, young people struggling, that is the time you're supposed to struggle when you're young.

Vanessa:

So you know you, you can pick yourself back up, you can work harder, you can have two jobs, you can do all that extra stuff, you can have roommates, so you don't have to do it later in life. If you struggle early, it is going to take you to that place where, when things happen later in life, you've got it because you've been there before. You know, and I know, I've had that in my own life, when I went through my divorce from my ex-husband, who was military. I, you know, I tell people this all the time.

Shay:

There's always that that period of time that's going to be dark.

Vanessa:

But if I had not struggled earlier on in my life, I would not have been okay living in this teeny tiny apartment with only an air mattress and having, you know, 15 to $20 for groceries a week. But I did it and I never asked for help from anyone and I was able to do it because I've had struggles earlier on and I knew what to do. Oh wow.

Vanessa:

And it's such a gift to be able to do that and know what to do and how to handle the situation, and so many people can't, then they so many people couldn't do what you did because they would be so embarrassed.

Shay:

I couldn't put it on the ground, like you know, they wouldn't be able to have people over. It's like we all been there, where you know you've had the well, not all of us, but some of us been there where you, you're in that apartment with hardly any furniture.

Shay:

You can't, like you said, you can't afford to really feed yourself. Like, yeah, I've been there too and it's hard, and I wouldn't say I was in that struggle before. But during that struggle and learning it and experiencing it and the sacrifice of it all made me not want to go back to that. So like, yeah, I ain't doing eating these ramen and Eggo waffles for the whole weeks on end rest of my life. I don't want to go back to that. So so yeah. And then you know, the fear of conflict is another one. Saying no, as we've already talked about, can be uncomfortable and strained relationships. Me saying no to some of my family members has caused silent treatments, angry reactions. Totally don't hear from them for years on end, like it's gotten crazy because of the no. But hey, I was afraid to do it, but it was necessary.

Vanessa:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I have had this with my sibling the same thing. It's one of those situations where there are people out there who are so good at manipulating circumstances that they can be as nice and kind until they hear the word no, and then they just change and they want nothing to do with you anymore and you're a horrible person because you said the N word you know, so it's like no, no is okay to say.

Shay:

And some people need to hear that word. They do.

Vanessa:

There are a lot of people out there who have never heard no before.

Shay:

I love that scene in Wicked when Ariana Grande is told no or she doesn't get her way and she gets so damn dramatic about it.

Shay:

But some people I know people have gotten that dramatic Vanessa about. They're like oh my God, I can't believe you said no to me. Oh my God, I didn't get my way. When she does that scene, I so can relate. I mean, I really could. I'm like oh my God, it's so dramatic, but it's. Some people are just like that because they've gotten their way all their lives and then when they're finally told no, and that's a, that's they are. We are enabling and hindering our children and our family members by not teaching them no exactly.

Vanessa:

Exactly.

Shay:

I mean it started in our generation when they were giving everybody damn trophies Hello, because they should have been like no, you're behind to not win a trophy for eighth place, like no.

Vanessa:

Eight out of eight. That's what I did. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's okay to not win. We need to know how to take that defeat. We need to know how to not get that the promotion or the raise or all these things that happen in our lives. We need to be able to handle them. Yes, and you're right, there's so many people who are our age and younger that can't, they can't handle those situations.

Shay:

They go crazy. Hearing the word no, they're like oh my God, the world is about to end. She just told me no, I will tell you.

Vanessa:

So my stepniece just got married.

Shay:

Last weekend Wow.

Vanessa:

She married a guy who's in the air force and going to Germany together. But she messaged me one day and she was like can you believe that my dad's not paying for my dress and he's not paying for this and he's not paying for that? And I was and she was like he makes the same amount my mom makes because they're divorced.

Shay:

And.

Vanessa:

I was like do you realize your dad's still paying child support for your sibling? And he has a house payment and he has a new spouse and stepchildren and all these things. And it's like and you're 19 and got married on a whim. So it's like there wasn't time to plan for these things and it's like you know I was telling her I was like when, when that happened for me, I had to pay for all my own things.

Vanessa:

It's not an expectation these days for most people that their family's going to handle everything. But I was like she's going to have a real learning curve of marrying somebody in the military.

Shay:

Yeah, cause you get to say they tell you know a lot. Her husband's going to be coming home because he's going to be told know a lot, yeah, yeah, but you know I'm glad she's learning at 19. It's not 29 or 59. Exactly, so that's just part of the process, you know. And then also, desiring to feel needed, helping others can provide us with the purpose which can lead us to helping, help us making enabling decisions. It buys relationships.

Vanessa:

sometimes, you know, and that's like said, that's happened in my family, it's like oh well, if they come by, I get to see them and we get to spend time together and I can give them that money for for whatever they need. But it's like is that really the kind of relationship you want?

Shay:

Exactly. Yeah, I see that with family members in order and only way they'll get their grandkids to come over and like I'll buy you lunch, I'll buy you dinner, it's like they should just be wanting to come over, just to come over, not because you're buying them their food. And now they've set this expectation. So when they come over my house they're like I say, do you have this? Like I ain't. Your grandparents Don't be coming over here only to get food. You better come over here and spend some time with me. So yeah, and if people want to feel needed and it's sad, I mean you know that's part of us as humans, is part of our fabric, so we just got to realize how to deal with that.

Vanessa:

Yeah, and there's so many other ways to do it and to feel needed and be part of something, without doing it over and over again. For the same person who who is not helping themselves?

Shay:

Or that whole thing. Oh, they'll change. Right, Give givers believe they help, will, that their help will inspire the receiver to change, but the receiver has to be held accountable. There's the A word that we keep using accountability. That's lacking all across everything. Right, yeah.

Vanessa:

Because if it's always going to be there, why change?

Shay:

Yeah, exactly. You don't set the expectation Exactly.

Vanessa:

Yeah, why change? Because there's no need to. The change happens because it's not there anymore.

Shay:

It's not there anymore and you have to. Yeah, exactly, crazy.

Vanessa:

It really, really is, you know, and then sometimes we see this with this imbalance of wealth too. You know, if somebody has more than others, or there may be this whole expectation, because you do have more, that you have to take care of others, or you know, there's a reliance because somebody has more. I think we've both seen this in our families too. Somebody has more, even though they're not, you know, overly wealthy or whatever just because somebody has something extra.

Vanessa:

everybody else wants it or thinks they can afford it, but a lot of times they don't understand what it takes to get there.

Shay:

It's the hard work and sacrifice, self-control and discipline that they don't have and they think they're going to come in my world and use what I got when I did all of this and you're going to skip all those steps and take advantage of my blessings, Like no, you better go somewhere and go get your own. That's real talk right there, Like you know, sometimes you don't have the money if you're the wealthy one.

Vanessa:

Um, you know, there's. There's this whole thing.

Vanessa:

Like my grandmother used to say, my mom was rich and I'm like, no mom has like car payments and a house payment and she had a business and so, because my mother had a business, she was rich, but the reality was she was paying 30 employees and you know there's all these things people don't think about. They just think, oh, you have this, so you've got to have money, and the reality is is most people don't. You know, they're living paycheck to paycheck just like everyone else. But there's that outward view of they have more and the reality is, a lot of times they don't.

Shay:

They don't. It's like the military right. A lot of people to this day still like well, you're in the military, so you're rich. No, just because we're going to these fancy quote unquote countries and states and got a house and we got food, that's the least they can do. So it's not that we're rich, it's just part of the whole process of being in the military Like it's not we're. Most of the people are struggling. They really are, yeah.

Vanessa:

Yeah, and I think you know, when you look at paychecks and you look at moves and all those things too that cost extra, then you'd be like, okay, yeah, I get it now.

Shay:

But until you've lived it, you don't understand it. You just think it's this magical time. Yeah.

Vanessa:

Yeah, but you know we also need to look at financial literacy too. With all this and people who are lacking financial literacy, you know there may this be. There may be this unintentional reliance on others for support, and it's just because they don't know. They don't know better.

Vanessa:

They think, oh, so-and-so, can always figure out a way to make more money, but I just I have no clue. Well, you know what? Maybe there's some stipulations in there that if we help you, you know you have to sit down and have a conversation or learn about money, because that's going to help more times over than just giving somebody you know $20 or a hundred bucks or whatever it is Exactly. Teach them how to fish, exactly.

Shay:

I have.

Vanessa:

I have a cousin that I helped with a mortgage and that was one of the rules when we first set this up he had to have a budget. We needed to know exactly what he could afford, if it was doable. He had to follow that budget monthly and I'll tell you it worked in the beginning. But later on not so much, but having those things kind of set up and having those conversations at least puts people in the right mindset too.

Shay:

Yeah, send them this way. Crusaders for change, we can help you. If you want some money for me, you got to go meet with Crusaders for change. I don't know something, but people need support and they need literacy, they need education. So, yeah, yeah.

Shay:

And then there's this dependency on loans and gifts. Right, some people use loved ones as financial crutch, rather than necessarily changing thing, like downsizing and adding more income to your balance, your, your spend plan, your balancing your budget. You know people are out here just trying to live their great lives and I mean that's why a lot of people's like, oh, I see, I was talking about, was talking about this earlier with somebody like, just because you got a big house and a card on me rich, it probably got a bunch of loans, credit cards, you know. So people out here really struggling, but you know they're depending on their loved ones as a crutch and that's not cool Because, again, as we keep saying, those loved ones that quote unquote, have it together, may have, you know, savings and are responsible. It's the word I always use with my family Don't, don't, what is the word I always say? Don't penalize me for being responsible, exactly.

Shay:

And that's how I feel like they penalize me or they talk bad about me or say, and they think they know no, no, no, no, Like we've been working our behinds off to get where we are and it's because we're responsible.

Vanessa:

We're not out here spending all our money on crazy stuff. Yeah, and that is so true. There is this whole like being penalized for that Cause.

Shay:

I feel that way too.

Vanessa:

You know, it's like oh well, you know you're going to do the right thing, so you don't need X, Y, z or I'm going to leave money to this person because you don't need it, and it's like why am I being penalized?

Shay:

Or why is this person being penalized?

Vanessa:

for making good choices and it takes a second because you're like, okay, so if I made bad choices I would get more out of people.

Shay:

Maybe I just need to not do what I need to do. I've had that mindset back in the day. Maybe I should be more like some of my siblings were and are, so I could get yeah, and it'll pay for all my kids to do this. Well, my kid to do this. You know their kids get more because, well, shanae's going to take care of Alana, so we'll just wait a minute. That's not fair to Alana. Like, what are you doing right now?

Vanessa:

Exactly, or, you know, leaving someone out of an inheritance because you know they're, they're doing well and it's like, okay, so you're, you're matching everybody up, sure, when all that is done. But the reality is is the people who have not worked hard for things and haven't sacrificed. It's going to be gone in a year. It's going to be gone in a year, and that person that knows how to make responsible choices and decisions, they would have kept it there for years and years to come.

Shay:

There's a parable in the word about that. Remember Jesus? He was like, or somebody was going to give it to the person that I'm messing this parable, this scripture all up. But that exact example you shared right there is in the Bible and it talks about how you should give to those that are more responsible, versus they're out there crazy. So exactly, yeah, exactly. And then let's talk about no emergency surgeon savings. I think we did a whole episode on this.

Shay:

But even a small unexpected expense can lead a person to rely on others, encourage them to save and be prepared. I mean, how many times we talk to our clients about it? Our families like, yeah, and they're like, everybody always gives me this excuse Well, when I save, I have to use it. Duh, like, that's what it's there for. I was like eventually you get to the point where it can sit because your life is kind of cold down, cool down and you don't have to worry about it. But that's what the savings there? Because then you don't have to call your family, you don't have to get a loan, you have to use your credit card because you've had the savings.

Vanessa:

So you need to save people Right, or you hear that phrase. I just can't catch a break. There's just always, it's the world is out to get me.

Shay:

And it's like, okay, the world is not out to get you.

Vanessa:

We all go through this. It's just how we handle it sometimes and you know I have to pay for this and I have to pay for that, just like you do. I mean I went gosh. I went to a doctor's appointment one time and didn't have insurance and I think my bill was like 300, $400. It was crazy. And you know the girl was like I guess you want to, you know, set up a payment plan. I was like no, I'll just pay for it.

Shay:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

And I remember her looking at me and she's like I wish I could just pay for it. And I was like well, so that's why you have an emergency savings, because things like this happen.

Shay:

Yeah so.

Vanessa:

I planned ahead of time for things like this and it's like, if you ever want to have a conversation, call me.

Shay:

We can talk about those exactly and side note sometimes it's cheaper to pay without using insurance, but we're not going to go into that, because that's just crazy world. So, and then there is power and stepping back from others. Sometimes jesus withdrew withdrew from crowds to pray, as in luke 5 16. So sometimes you just need to be still and know god and he will, and just talk to him. God's like I want you to talk to me about every little thing to big thing.

Vanessa:

So if you're struggling, you need to have a conversation with God and you can step back and you can step out of that relationship for a bit and and be not as close to that person as you were for your own mental health and wellbeing and financial and financial well-being. So it's okay to kind of not, I guess, maybe. Maybe just separate yourself for a bit and, you know, remove yourself from the situation and back up and just take a break. I do that with people all the time. I take many breaks from people.

Shay:

And it's like okay, I'm going to.

Vanessa:

I'm going to take a break for a little bit and just kind of, you know, do the minimum that I have to do, you know, for my sanity and my health, and it's okay to do that with someone who is, who is using and abusing you financially yeah, that part and get off social media.

Shay:

Don't say that, stay out. You need, when you get to take a break for them, don't go. Oh man, I can't believe they're doing it. Just get off social media, okay. And then I'm going to say here, in 2 Thessalonians 3.10, it says For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule the one who is unwilling to work shall not eat. Amen, that part. Any final thoughts?

Shay:

I would just remind everyone that it's okay to say no to someone and saying no can be a blessing, because even God doesn't tell us yes all the time, and when God says no, you need to listen. I'll end on that. Thank you, guys, for another great episode. We're excited. A big thank you for listening to this episode. We hope you found today's chat about the intersection of religion and money insightful. We would love to hear your feedback. Hit that subscribe button or follow the podcast and please feel free to leave us a review.

Vanessa:

Yes, and for the latest Yahweh's money content, visit us at www. crusaders4change. org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Until next time, stay financially fit and spiritually inspired and remember it's always better Yahweh's way.

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Shay Cook

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