Want to get inspired by leveraging your time with the brightest and best in business, raising a family, and then pivoting towards the real estate entrepreneur you were always meant to be?
Tony is an experienced and seasoned management consultant who shares his many life-lessons for those still in corporate life, and what it takes to go from there to self-employed, using real estate both large and small.
Tony Castronovo, Founder & Managing Partner, is a multifamily real estate investor with over 7 yrs experience in acquisition, underwriting, contract negotiation, due diligence, syndication, capital raising, construction & renovations, operations, asset management, and overall asset strategy implementation.
Mr. Castronovo is also a seasoned management consultant, utilizing 25 yrs of experience advising clients on project portfolio investment management. He holds higher education degrees in Engineering and Construction Management.
Good morning podcast listeners. We have another episode of The Investing Stuff You Should Know Podcast
We have a great guest with us today. Tony Castronovo. He has he's actually part of a multi-family group that I joined a little while ago, and Tony's been doing some amazing things. He's got amazing traction been in the space for a while. is the most important Shaker. he just shared a really cool story with me about his son about he's teaching him also the real estate. Space. So, Tony, thank you for joining us this morning. And you're about to drop some solid nuggets of wisdom and knowledge, or on our audience. Wow! set me up. Thanks for having you John yeah it's a it's a delight man. Been watching a lot of people in the space as we know We, you know, we we put stuff out there on social media and meetups and things like that. Too obviously, too, it's deliberately to share what we're doing this and that. So when you see some certain people like yourself you know doing excellent they're doing well, and you know making getting traction out there, it's really cool to kind of follow that journey. and you know use that for motivation and also a lot of times it's for me It's like idea like Oh, so that's such a cool idea. So. yeah to that point once you give us a little background paragraph, or you you know where you've come when you grew up, and some little you know your personal history. There. Okay, sure. well let me maybe start kind of in reverse. So I've been in the multi-family space for about 4 years now in real estate for a little over 8. Yeah, I started in the single family space, probably like a lot of your listers. And prior to that I had a career in amazement, consulting for about 25 years a lot of companies that probably folks know about like earnest and young accenture. Yeah, over those 25 years, and you know just I won't go too far back. But I I actually had a a engineering degree at a petroleum engineering degree out of West Virginia University, and that's how I got to Texas, actually where I reside. Now is that that degree? I I thought, Hey, let me, you know. Go to an oil and gas town where I can become petroleum. You know oil and gas type person, and back Then well was 10 bucks a barrel, you know. It's hard to believe right now but the jobs were not plentiful, and so that got me into management got me an it and you know kind of offline my career. But yeah, i'm originally a new yorker from upstate New York. and that's kind of my short Oh, story. nice man. yeah. So all you know, as my listeners know i'm also an engineering mechanical engineer not a patrolling engineer. And there's I mean just when you know one of us going to school. I heard stories about, you know, back in the certain, you know. Maybe the eighties and other times when the there was more schools, actually with a strong petroleum engineering background, you know, and little. And then also because with the press oil collapsing lot of those those departments actually shut down. So It's very interesting kind of the little obviously tangent on engineering, and specifically petroleum, or or that type of engineering. But That's something that you really got still hit not just within the field or in industry, but actually within academia, too. So it's a little interesting side note, there, but anyway. So Yeah. So you kind of in your Texas? you know you had this successful career and managed by consulting There, now, did you? Did you like that? Tony, Did you like kind of doing that? And And did you have fun like I just th that was kind of a little bit of a little insight into that that that chunk of your life. Essentially, I mean, it's obviously a form part person who you are Now, Yeah, I mean there was a pretty big chunk actually. I I think I liked it for most of it. , the exciting thing about being a management consultant is, you are surrounded by amazing people. The the the best and the brightest, the hardest working people out there. You know people that are road wires and having to travel and be away from their family, and and you develop a close camaraderie with these folks. You know you work in late nights. and sometimes weekends and and and while that sounds very draining, and it is it's also a great way to learn very quickly, and so I felt like you know, in the prime of my amazement, consulting career I was constantly learning constantly being challenged, and I was moving up the career ladder. And you know, I think like like a lot of people with W. 2, you know, job employment. You you keep getting bumps in your salary, and it becomes a little harder every year to walk away from that. So going into, you know, full-time 100 entrepreneurship was a little scary, but something I've been preparing myself for for several years. That's awesome man. So yeah, just listen to another podcast they were talking about the with you, know Whitman with attraction the traction, you know, physical operating system, for, you know, small companies or medium-sized companies, or do you feel like 1? 1 point they made within that was that kind of entrepreneurial bug, and to have some character traits you have that some you kind of you can kind of learn or flush out with yourself. You feel like you've had that entrepreneurial bug to step into the real so space. You know, since birth, or did you kind of learn it? Kind of pick up the pieces, or what or explain that if you if you have any insight there, I I think I probably always had it. I I've always been interested in in you know starting my own business, running my own business. But I I i'm trying to remember so back in in the college days. I actually wrote a paper, and it was called Self Employment Aspiration, or asphyxiation. And and the reason I I wrote that thing like watching my dad starting a business running a business as like. Well, there's this really cool aspiring or inspiring type of of you know aspect to it. but then I see some of the struggles, and it's like joking yourself to death like, can you make it and that's just part of being an entrepreneur, and hopefully you can push your way through that. And you know those that they can survive in those that that don't you know they have to find other ways. But , I think i've always i've always known and even when I was at like ernest young and and some other consulting companies, I mean I was able to start my own practices and kind of grow my own business within those firms, you always had a little bit of that spirit. Yeah, what is your this one quick sidebar? What did your dad do? By the way, you said he had a small business. What was he? What did you observe him doing? we're trying to do well, my entire family has been in the auto industry. My dad was primarily in like the the body work, you know. Basically he was flipping. He was flipping cars. Yeah buy salvage cars and he'd fix him up. Then he'd sell them switzerland yeah so yeah, you saw, you know. First I like you said to your your family was entrepreneurial in the small business, you know. Maybe you know, but maybe multiple people were to do , physically was in the the car business. So that's that's cool it's beyond the least have a baseline of where to kind of you know. Come, observe, observe, and learn you know at the very least so that's that's good So then, yeah So pivoting back to that you know, like you said, that large chunk of your career, your life. You know that you spent in that consulting field, And then you said you also preparing for it? how to give us a little insight into that preparation process could like, you know? Maybe did it start 10 years before you actually started into the single family space? Or what? from the beginning? What about What was kind of the seed to that? What did it kind of grow into? Yeah, I mean, I was always interested in real estate since about 2,000 2,001 I got a little spark. I I thought I was gonna I mean I actually did start a company. I I did all the sort of administrative thing that started the Loc. I opened the bank account I was reading all the books. I was, quote, unquote, farming a neighborhood to try to. You know, follow all the prescriptions that the books were telling me about getting to know that diamond in the rough. You know the house that you you wanna approach, say a motivated seller, and and, you know, pick up a house, flip a house. Then I had my kids like the same year, and I got a new job. And basically life happened. I put put it on hold and I put it on hold for a good 10 years. And yeah, you know, I mean things happen right back in 2,014 is when I picked it back up. , Yeah. I bought my first single family house, and I started getting into the buy and hold, and I was building a small portfolio of single family homes, being a landlord. That sort of thing and so, as I started moving through that journey that's when I started thinking, Hey, you know i'm seeing cash flow, i'm seeing that i'm growing and in equity, this could be something that eventually I could replace my W. 2 income with and do this full time. I had a big passion for it. so it was really just you know another detour off the main highway here. that eventually I was gonna make you know the the main thoroughfare. right? Yeah. And let's talk about the financing side and for those initial for a that initial fourier into the into the space there was that where you're using your own money with bank loans or blade layout the the the details of how you finance those early projects. I think maybe the first one or 2. it was my money, because I didn't know any different But then I started getting more educated, and so I learned about hard money. So I would purchase a lot with hard money, and then refy into a conventional loan, and then probably about halfway into my single family career. I learned about private money, and so I started developing. You know, folks that I could reach out to a text message, and 10 min later, I know I have the 100 grand. I can go purchase a house and close on in 4 days. I mean it got to that point. Yeah, man. explain to the honest, real quick. I just learned this like that just more of the distinction myself. Here like a couple weeks ago, about the difference between hard money and private money. Lay out that distinction there. if you were the the kind of the particulars there. Yeah, I think the the similarity between them is their typical use for short term. So maybe upwards of 6 months. but in my case it was 90 days hard. Money is, is really more of like an institution, a company versus a individual, or maybe a group of individuals that would be a private lender. So anybody I mean I I thought about doing it myself. anybody . and you can move very quickly. I mean literally, and and not every private London would do this. But my private lenders process was she? She had an attorney on standby who had just drafted a promissory note. She had an appraiser that she always used she'd send him out to do basically a drive by appraisal, and we had minimal paperwork. My closings were literally 10 min long. I mean it was very quick, painless, and , arrangement that I had with her was 90 days guaranteed interest, and I would pay up at the closing table and if I, if I refinance that in 70 days well, she still gets her interest. But for me I just needed to get him in and out in 90 days, so that I could be cash flowing and have a tendon in place Yeah, I I think hard money was, was simply. I started working with wholesaleers and some wholesaleers. The larger ones are having affiliation with a hard money lender, because they know that investors like us are coming in, and they're trying to call something that they're trying to sell very quickly, and they wanna make it easy to get finance. So that we're not waiting and tying up property. so a lot of them have a hard money lender. So that was my first entry into that. And then, as I started learning about hard money, I started finding my own hard money lenders, and that was just, you know, networking and and being part of you know real estate forms, and groups, and talking about people in the business, so I had probably maybe 3 hard money lenders that I really liked working with, and very well. And so that made the paper work a lot more efficient. And I mean I literally had, like a dropbox folder that just had all of my docs ready to go, and I would update them periodically. And then my lender just had access and boom would go. But the private money that was that was basically somebody that had been kind of watching what I was doing. And I would network with quite a bit we'd compare notes. We were both investors, and then she brought up the idea at 1 point, so we'll look, you know, and I not only invest. But I , , and if you're ever looking for funds for one of your projects. Let me know. Yeah, no, it's exciting man I'm just truly like that. Those those kinds of relationships and discussions are really all kind of where the magic and real estate happens, where you know you're you're observing people, and you're talking to people. and then you know whatever your situation in life is can be a good match for what if someone else is doing. and that's kind of where some real magic, I think. Anyway occurs is when those types of things, you know, happened. They could just kind of grow and no one's forcing it. You're not getting pitched hard, and they can kinda like you said that trusting credibility or like I said you know, the trust capability is kind of built and Then they feel comfortable, you know, broaching this topic, and then then and then you kind of go there, go for, go forward from there, and you know successful projects that presume are done, and then not just built that relationship. Even more would you would you agree with that? Oh, yeah yeah and yeah, It's just like anything, even with with that particular private lender. The very first loan that I did with her. She asked for a lot of information. She wanted to see. You know what were the metrics on my past projects, and you know the timelines and the profit margins. And she just wanted to know she was working with somebody, even though she kind of knew me. She wanted to see behind the scenes. You know what it looked like, and the kind of business I was doing after we did. You know 1, 2, 3 of these things that it was just like, you know, a text message , The money came so fast that I had actually chosen a different title company, and the money was already at the former title company. Before I could let her know that we . that's A good story, man. That's a really good story, you know we're actually just decreased. You know, accelerated you know how quickly you know you're able to execute a deal or the you know kind of the beginning machine. The machine need to get a deal done so papering from that into You know, kind of your multi-family forward is, you know. So you said, like 8 years ago, single family around 4 years ago, you know, started getting interested in the multicaming space. Explain that transition. You know of your life, of your professional business, and why you did it. what you saw, and maybe give us a couple of an idea of the first couple of what those first couple of projects look like. So I was. I was up protein that magic number of 1010 single family homes and and you know how it goes right. You're you're building your portfolio. You're getting your loans and then it's starting to creep up on you to say Well, I can only get 10, Fanny, you know Freddie type loans, and so eventually i'll have to kind of hit the reset button. Move those. let's say into a portfolio loan, and then, you know, keep going, which is fine. But it it was just like man. If I gotta do that I gotta go through that hurdle. Maybe it's time to rethink this whole single family thing. Maybe it's time to rethink how How I can quickly scale from, say 8, 9, 10 to a 100,000. Right. and and so I started thinking about multi-family, and I wanted to get educated. So I found a local meetup, and and I attended every one of their meetings. Think I attended them for like 2 years, I just I I immersed myself and everything i'd get my hands on share real quick. Where you where you're living right now where that where that is i'm in Houston, Texas Houston, Texas. Yep: Yeah, Yeah. And this group happened to be A group focused primarily on syndication. So I started kind of learning about syndication. Yeah. But my first multi-family deal was not a syndication, so I was kinda learning about syndication. But meanwhile I bought my first multifamily the same way about my single families, because I really didn't know, and I wasn't comfortable with process of syndication. I just opened my checkbook, and I I bought the biggest, multi-family property that I could, which is a 20 unit, and and that was, you know me just. I I 1031 into it. but you know my own sweat. Equity went into it, as well as well as like draining credit, cards and lines of credit and everything I could to get all the the capital improvements done. and as I got to the end of that, and then I refinanced that and obviously paid off that death. I I was like Wow, that was painful. I mean trying to tap into my own credit lines to get a multi-family property done that's just, not sustainable. So I had to kind of think through another way. So my second deal happened to be a syndication Awesome? Yeah. And then I why would I be cooking assuming you found perhaps your partners within that kind of that local meetup group for that that second syndication, or the second property? That was a syndication actually I didn't I I might have found a partner there but I still wasn't. Quite comfortable. I was I was tapping into a bit of a mentor of mine, , I knew from the consulting days, and he was in multi-family. So that's always that's a huge thing that's a huge thing to leverage those contacts and encourage our listeners, too. and that's something I think our target audience member is a successful professional looking to place you know summer pass it. A lot of some are active, We, you know, target more of the passive side, but also like a lot of times, people around you. If you kind of express. what you're doing or share what you're doing, you know, on the side or or you're you know, driving towards that is you know sometimes there's some real expertise and people around you that you don't know about so I love that yeah and and We were, I mean, I was in real estate before him, but he jumped straight into multi-family. He never did single family. Yeah, he was way ahead of me on that front, and he was with another mentoring communities. So he He was learning about syndication. He had been sending deals, I think, at the time he had probably 500 units or so a number of different complexes. So. So he had some track record, and what I knew I needed was guidance and credibility. And so he came in essentially as a balance sheet partner. He signed on the loan. he gave me. You know the credibility that I needed to be able to to send indicate that deal. And then basically I ran it. and you know once we took it over I , were you that just to put out a , a name on it. Then you're the the lead Gpa Then where you the Gp: that's correct. Yeah. Nice? Yeah. So you let it let the Let the basically the the finding and the whole the whole operation. Well, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, So that was your first indication. And stepping through that. Then what did you how to let's talk about the the fundraising. Sorry, So you said, like you said you write your 20 unit like, Yeah, that was like stretched you model a lot of ways a little bit uncomfortable like you know there's gotta be a better way. How did you raise the capital on the the second deal that you did this indication deal? Yeah, it it's. funny, because now, you know we have all these syndication portals and you know websites and all this stuff very professional. And and when I was doing it I had no clue. I was just like, okay, I need an attorney. So the attorney thankfully, I I went to a meetup, and I met a syndication attorney at one of them , guided me on the legal structure and all the documents and the entities that you need to create, and so forth. So I was good there. But then I was like, Well, okay, how do I get people to sign documents? Yeah, , old school way, right? You email them documents or give them access to a dropbox folder. Then I because I I sort of grew up in the it space to me, to me, protecting people's data is paramount. Yeah, I don't care what you're using if it's pony express you. You have to protect people's data, so I jumped through myriad of hoops to password protect documents, and you know all all kinds of things that now thankfully, we have portals that make that a whole lot easier and that's there and that really adds a lot of burden to you and the client, because I've done the same thing where you like adding password protection to like this this these pedestrian really whit ways of standing docs, but then you can add like layers security. It's very encumbering like you're like texting back and forth, and I can't get in and all this stuff It's like, Oh, my God like this is just a nightmare you know just like i'm like the top level thing. i'm trying to protect but then like the cascading effect of that of that effort with the old school way of like kind of manually doing it, adding an ad hoc type of protection is very tedious and very, you know, very intense. Yeah. Yeah. It was a ton of work. but basically, you know, I I modeled after what I had been seen in the the meetups and and some mentoring that I was getting along the way. So I knew that I needed to do things like, like, you know. First of all decide whether I was going with a 506 B. Or if I was 6, c. I end up choosing a 506 B. Which is kind of the Friends and Family Country Club type of of syndicate rather than blasting it out to the world and social media. And you know it was something I felt more comfortable with, because my my circle back then was not as large. and I thought, where am I going to find people who want to invest in a real estate? Deal figure that was the easiest way for me to get started, and I I held a webinar, and I, you know, put my pitch deck together and shared all that and in the webinar and had a few Q. and a sessions thereafter, and and then within 2 weeks I was funded. Yeah I didn't know if that was good or bad but oh, that's That's such a good sort of bad There's there's obviously we've all heard stores out there where somebody kicks out the first fundraising event or or project, and does it go so well? And we also, I think we all have doubts you know unless you like I don't know grew up in the space, or something like that. But lot of time first time you know you know our first time raise is very intimidating, and there's a lot of uncertainty, and you know the people like me to like the deal like all these different things going on So that's you know, you had success after a couple of weeks that's really kind of a crowning really cool. It's a good story to to share so to just kind of of, you know, maybe launching off that idea of that first deal like your second year, really into the and you raise an assess sufficient capital You Consider yourself. Kind of a capital razor kind of your specialty now, and well just let me just. I'll just let you answer that yeah I mean it's something I certainly am not the expert in. But it's something that I enjoy and not not so much quote unquote capital raising that's not the part I enjoy working with investors, talking to investors, helping them to get into an opportunity to invest in real estate deal, and not just in the acquisition. but then all through managing the asset. I'm the guy i'm i'm the communication hub and I love the communication back and forth with investors, and sharing how we're doing on the property, and how we're making improvements and and Ultimately, when we sell, they get to see the the fruit of that labor, and that's just the part that really gets me, you know, juiced up. I love that distinction. You may, or Tony between, like just like capital raising, which is like very clinical and kind of like. You just have to get money versus like you're actually working with human beings and engagement with investors so like that. And that mindset. That mindset is probably why you have. You have success in that space is because like yeah then that's and the the part that you probably I sound like you're naturally passionate, and you enjoy is that engagement with your investors. Correct. Yeah, Yeah. and I know we chat it a little bit. You know, when when we got on the intro about my son, I have a 19 year old son , share that story. now, just to give a highlight to that that's an awesome story by the way, yeah, and and I i'll unpack a little bit. but the segue there is. I was actually in the car with him yesterday, and and we got this topic, and and he was asking me about quote unquote capital raising, and and maybe this is Corny Cliche. I know We've all heard it but it really means something to me, I said, even though it's called capital raising. I said, what I would rather do is attract capital, not raise capital. And and I said, The difference there is that attracting capital is something that takes years to do the whole no like and trust thing is not something that happens overnight. People will invest with people they know like and trust You want to be that person. You want money to flow to you an opportunity to you know be associated with you, and everybody wants to participate in that rather than chasing people down to invest in one of your deals. That's never a good point to be and so as a 19 year old. I was trying to explain some of these concepts to him, and and so kind of what we were talking. The backdrop. There is, you know. He He just finished his first year in college, Does he know what he is in the what he wants to do? What does he have? His major point out. he he does. but i'm smiling a little bit, because we've been having a lot of really good conversations about awesome. Yeah, you know the the look, just because dad is real estate. Entrepreneur does not mean you need to be real estate on. But there is another way, and if you start working yourself through college, and you realize that maybe you're not happy, or whatever job that you want to pursue, you're only doing it for the money, then think about it and and I I asked him I said, I said, why are you choosing your Major? Which to answer your question. he's he's in public health, wants to be like a physician's a system. And and I said, Why, do you want to do that and he said, Well, it's good money, and I said Well, I know people say money's happiness, or you know, money doesn't buy happiness, but I said why do you need money. Like. What is the money going to do? for you and you know I was really kind of peeling back a little bit to try to understand, because somebody who's you know? Maybe 30, something years older than him has had a few life experiences Money is not everything. It does solve a lot of problems, but it doesn't solve every problem. Yeah, and I I told him I said wouldn't it be awesome if you remember making money while you were sleeping, so that you could go do all those fun things that you want to do with your life, and not just you know work from whatever 8 to 5, just because of the money. yeah and then, I guess that he was. This obviously sounds like you're getting maybe a good response He's like maybe having some introspection there, as you as you guys talk about some of these these deep life kind of life lessons, I know obviously very focused with and you know how how to survive for money. but it isn't very super important. That's how they responding is it kind of open enough he! He is i'm i'm blown away really I am super humbled that that you know I i'm not gonna call him a teenager. He's almost 20 you know somebody of that age is is really thinking about those kind of things, and and so he's been on on kind of an internship. If you will for the summer with me so yeah he's always lived with his mom. Now he's living with me for the summer and you know I'm trying to help him buy a car by flipping a house this summer, but because we chose route where we're not necessarily swimming the hammer all summer and We're a little bit more of a capital partner in the deal part of his contribution to the overall effort is to learn everything there is to learn about flipping a house a personal finance about multifamily. he's coming to boot camps with me he's he's going out to the property with me. He's watching podcasts he's reading books you know I I meet with them every week. and we have kind of a deep brief of everything's learned for the week. Of Everything's learned from the week it's really been amazing. Yeah, that's that's a pretty good actually internship there. Tony, i'm sure you've seen a lot of young professionals go through your consulting companies in your day, and sometimes then we both know as as an ancient former engineer saw the same thing, and oftentimes people are working up, you know. they're working on pretty good projects sometimes just kind of boring kind of dull like. Yeah, I did some spreadsheet so that's awesome. thought Oh, sorry I lost lost my train of thought there had a good question. but I I drained away here quickly. I mean so so Yes, he's doing all this research, and studying and all that. But things like you know the the whole timeline of this project. I'm trying to to attach his education to what's happening in real time. So like right now. we are in the middle of of finalizing the contracts, and you know the promissory note and everything responsible to get to closing, and we're supposed to close in the next week. Or so He has the contract, and I wanted him to be able to understand and the purchase and sal agreement. And so he went off and had to research all the terms you know what's due diligence. What's what's earnest money and you know just all these things, and I quit. We. We had a full long conversation, and you know I I said, Look, it's open book. You have the contract, and you know, we went through the whole thing and I didn't want him to just memorize stuff , that's been really fantastic. Yeah, the thought is gonna just add just real quick on top of that little bit of sidebar. But kind of related is beginning investors or you know, socially on the active side, you know whether it's into syndication or single family, or whatever it might be. The same type of idea could apply and extrapolate this is like How can you participate you're like I Don't know how I value this that the other and that's not really the point of what we're talking about but like the same kind types of concepts could apply where you're you're out there hustling around and you know maybe providing money, maybe providing you know the through diligence, maybe providing the sweat equity, understanding things, you know just adding you know contributing in some way that you can Yes, you're not an expert you don't really know anything but you're partnering. But then, you're out there actually showing up and doing effort and I have a willing and learning attitude that could be huge, too. So that's that's just kind of a parallel with with how your what's your teaching here with your with your child? Oh, yeah, I mean even so, if if we wanna say a little bit into partners, I mean when i'm working on a multi-family deal, and we're trying to put the team together because my company is essentially me and I partner with a few different folks in different markets but sometimes the deals are a little bit bigger, and they require more partners to be in the deal for a variety of reasons for the value that they bring It's always easier to wanna work with people when you like them, and you you you share the same values, and right when you see somebody hustling. But they're hustling in a way where they're not being annoyed. You know, or they're just finding ways to to bring value and to get things done, maybe even before you think that that they need to be done , or they're volunteering something, hey? I can bring the earnest money or hey? let me let me go out there and tour the property, or you know whatever it is. I mean, if they're hustling like that, you want to work with those people absolutely tony yeah, and then I think it takes a bit of insight to your to your point. kind of that distinction there. If some some hustling is kind of annoying and irritating. And it's like a yeah yeah yeah yeah you can't don't call me 10 times, you know like that's not really helpful. But from there a little bit that's some some little bit of introspection, a little bit of discernment, and they can say, what does no one want to do here? What? what kind of sucks, what is kind of a drain? What is like real tedious and kind of you know being a little bit perspective perceptive. That's that's kind of that additional layer that's needed where people intrinsically organically want to engage with you like Yeah, this person maybe has no money, But like they're doing all these like valuable things or offering to do these things then there's a real There's a real natural attraction towards that. Would you agree with that? Yeah, for sure for sure I think you know It's it's important to understand what is needed for multi-family deal, you know, a lot of times we talk about carve outs general partner carve outs or sponsorship models. that sort of thing, right? The buckets so typical buckets would be, you know. Somebody needs to find the deal right, the acquisition side. They need to go through the due diligence and do all the work to get it to the closing table. Then you've got people who are helping to raise the capital for the deal. Somebody has to put up earnest money, for the deal and Then, once you close on it, you've got to have somebody running the asset managing the asset . and even before you close on it, likely you'll need a partner with a strong balance sheet because that's a requirement from your lender, and it could be a responsibility from others on the team. Or maybe it's an individual outside of that core team that you bring on to fulfill that particular role. What that means is Think about where you are if you're the person. Maybe you know you are in a you know great job. Maybe you're a doctor or a lawyer, or you know a dentist, and and you love what you do, and you want to get involved in a deal. You could be part of the general partnership because you're bound to eat is strong, and you could be a guarantee on the loan. That's a great way to get into a deal or maybe if you're newer and and maybe a little bit. say younger in your career. Peel back asset management. there's a ton that goes into that managing the capital improvements running the operations the least seem that the maintenance, the repairs, you know everything that's part of asset management can be unbundled, and if somebody is learning it willing to take it on, and that just taking on like, I will learn it on the job. But to have kind of done the homework ahead of time. right yeah, no, that's that's huge man. I love that idea the unbundling yet. So we have this like core, this bit like you said this bucket or this big idea called asset management, and it sounds like, no one knows what that is except during the space But then, actually when you look into it into the you know container Okay, here's like there's there's property management guidance. There's maybe they're doing a capex you know maybe there's the Lisa, but there's all these particular specific areas that you know need need specific skill sets and focus and are very you know specific activities that need to happen for a successful larger project. as it management the whole thing to get together. Awesome man. So So running up to time here. but let's just ask a few final questions tell us. Hopefully, this can draw you off here. I like to, and people, if they can share. Maybe an embarrassing or funny story within their career, or maybe in their real estate. They're later. you know their current currently real estate or capitalizing space. Can you? Do you have any stories to share with us? On that front. i'm sure I do somewhere I because i'm on the spot, and I can't think of anything like that. I'll tell you a similar story. Okay, there we go I could have had to do something stupid and funny, because early in my career I was approached by Diy channel to be on a reality Tv show , they wanted me to be on the show first time. Flippers and and they they reached out. They said. Look it's 5 days of filming we're gonna pay you 5 grand, you know. Here's what we expect, and of course all my friends are like, do what do it do? , Yeah. and and the only person who said do not do it was my wife, , he's like, look this is your business. You don't want to look like a jackass short term game, and gain and fame. And then your wife is like being real like being kind of sagacious and like kind of wise, and you're like you. Know, this is like, you know. Think about this long term, right? Yeah. Yeah, the action kind of the yeah the action the sports supposedly you know, live Tv or whatever. So let's let's go sorry man that's actually pretty pretty funny. What are in your in your observation? There, Tony. What are some character traits let's just say 3 3 character traits of people are successful in the attract the capital attraction. Space capital raising capital attraction. what are some what are some natural traits of those kinds of people that you've seen in yourself, and others that that have success. I think, first and foremost you you have to be transparent. And so when we start talking about trust you wanna trust somebody that's gonna tell you the good bad and ugly and and it consistently does that you can't you can't hide bad news it's not like wine it doesn't get better with age. You gotta expose those sort of things and if people see that. That's just how you live your life. Then it's a lot easier to get into business with somebody like that. And if you're investing you know to to basically part with your money for 5 years with that person, so transparency, I think, is is number one. I think somebody's got to be a great communicator I mean it. It goes with written communication, because when you're investing in deal, you want to get your monthly reports, you want to see how the property is performing. You want somebody to anecdotally describe what the heck's going on there without having to be through all the financials right , big document. It's easy to hide crap versus just somebody just given it to a straight up front straight up. And say, Hey, this? these are 3 things that are concerning right now. Things could be going good, but also some things that are concerning versus like yeah and page 4, and paragraph 6. There's some other, some Not so good news Yeah, Yeah, and I think maybe the last one is is patience. I like that. Yeah, you know sometimes you're you're talking to an investor who maybe has never invested does, has no idea what a multi-family syndication is and they may need multiple one of them conversations that may need to be. You know in a group setting and see a couple of webinars before they're ready to invest. Make a long time before somebody's willing to come into a deal with you. So you gotta play the long game. This is not a I gotta. I gotta fill this This, you know, capital need for this transaction. This is a i'm doing this for a career and if you're not willing to invest Now you might invest in 3 years from now with me. Yeah, no that's that's that's great that's excellent as far as for people so as you kind of wrap this up here for people that wanna get in contact with tony talk to tony what's is it you have a website. you're on linkedin Facebook what's the best place people can find you and reach you and and have further conversations. Yeah, all all the above linkedin Facebook. But to keep it simple, they can go to my website, which is novo. And ovo multi-family groupcom on there there's a a contact. Yeah, And they can reach out that way, or they can just drop me an email to Tony at Nova multi-family group dot com. Simple I like, and of course we'll be putting that contact information in the podcast notes. So you can always just go to that. like Oh, I forgot I didn't quite write this down. You can always go to the notes and it's going to be clickable, and you might go right to Tony's website. So, anyway, Tony, thank you for being on. Thank you. listeners for listening to entire episode. All the best executional podcasts we like to have good guests, great Gus, actually that share content and wisdom and life stories, and also knowledge of how to do this and the challenges they've gone through and their life story so that's always really good. So, Tony, thank you for being here and sharing some of your time.